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Tuesday Morning Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 09:45:30 AM EST
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I've got lots to do at work after the long holiday weekend. For those of you online, here's an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    Tuesday Morning Open Thread | 113 comments (113 topical)

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    I think (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by lilburro on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 11:42:57 AM EST
    everyone is just flailing in coming up with explanations for why health care is going nowhere and why Obama's policies in general seem to be going nowhere, but here's an interesting one from our new Newsweek columnist:

    ...If the president's success is the best predictor of the minority's defeat, the minority can't let the president succeed. But there's no way to keep the president from succeeding politically while still helping him govern effectively. So they just block both things from happening.

    Given these incentives, and the finding that issues become more polarized when the president takes a position on them, what you'd ideally want the president to do is stay out of the process as much as possible. But if our system is tilted away from presidential power, our political culture is entirely about the president. And so there are constant calls for the president to take firmer hand with Congress and to retool his communications strategy and to rescue legislation he supports. That's the context for the health-care summit. The president is trying to fulfill expectations that he'll be central to a negotiation process that offers him no natural role.

    No natural role?  So Rahm running around DC has nothing to do with the President?  And what of influencing public opinion?

    This is really one of the weirdest incarnations of the Irrelevant President theory yet.  Is the President supposed to be involved in anything?

    Bayh says no jobs (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by waldenpond on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 11:47:33 AM EST
    Bayh said that no jobs have been created in the last 6 months.  What is the goal?  Is this going to be one long tantrum until November?  I expect a stint as a Fox analyst.

    He's already one of the few (none / 0) (#40)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 02:35:44 PM EST
    "Democrats" who gets a very warm welcome and an attentive hearing on Fox.

    What presumably doesn't occur to him is that the reason there have been few jobs actually created by the stimulus is because it had to be scaled way down to the point of ineffectiveness because of resistance from dimwits like him.

    Parent

    How about that guy... (5.00 / 2) (#13)
    by kdog on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 12:39:56 PM EST
    trying to take a swing at Mitt Romney on a plane?

    I know it ain't righteous, but I take some perverse pleasure in it not being safe out and about for elected officials and former elected offcials.  

    Nelson can't get pizza in Omaha without being harasses, and now Romney can't fly commercial...its wrong but I just love it!  

    Pie (none / 0) (#41)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 02:38:37 PM EST
    When I lived in Mass. during the Romney regime, my sister visiting from NJ caught sight of him on a TV with the sound turned off while we were having a conversation about somethingorother, had no idea at all who he was, and remarked somewhat distractedly, "My, there's a face that just cries out for pie."

    Parent
    I like your sister... (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by kdog on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 02:45:08 PM EST
    and she's absolutely right...that mug begs for it!  And there aren't nearly enough pies thrown in this democracy...probably because its a felony now or something:)

    Parent
    I blew the line (none / 0) (#104)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 09:47:01 PM EST
    She said, "There's a face that invites pie," which is even better.

    Parent
    You know... (none / 0) (#56)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 03:04:18 PM EST
    ...there's got to be more to the story here.  I doubt the guy took a swing just because he was asked to put his seat back to its upright position.

    Why was Mittens flying coach anyway--trying to prove he's an everyman like Scott Brown?  

    Parent

    Maybe... (none / 0) (#62)
    by kdog on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 03:24:32 PM EST
    airline security hassles put the guy in a sour mood (It always does for me:), and being asked to move his seat up into an even more uncomfortable upright position was the last straw.

    And I'd bet he wasn't asked nicely...you know those elitists and their attitudes.  

    The mighty Romney's being in coach is kinda odd...don't tell me Mitt needs a bailout for his too big to fail arse too...I'll lose it:)

    Parent

    Hummmpfff.. (none / 0) (#69)
    by desertswine on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 03:47:18 PM EST
    I was unaware that you can still fly commercial from Vancouver to Versailles.

    Parent
    Guffaw!! (none / 0) (#103)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 09:46:01 PM EST
    Hey, 10 points for that one.  Very well done.

    Parent
    He needs to stay up in 1st (none / 0) (#63)
    by nycstray on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 03:25:26 PM EST
    Flying coach is bad enough these days. Imagine getting stuck next to Mittens (or any of those guys!) on a cross country flight {shudder}

    Parent
    it was a pretty crazee (none / 0) (#1)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 10:26:49 AM EST
    weekend at my house but I think detente has settled.
    by last night the new cat was sitting between the tow dogs on the sofa purring.
    Cat just needed a day or two to (none / 0) (#2)
    by ruffian on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 10:30:10 AM EST
    show them who's boss. Now everything will be fine!

    Parent
    I think thats correct (none / 0) (#3)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 11:11:28 AM EST
    but he was great.  very calm.  but established boundaries right away.  and they were respected.  he was so calm the dogs got bored in about an hour.

    Parent
    Turtle-reladed. Saw a famous Garuda (none / 0) (#38)
    by oculus on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 02:31:24 PM EST
    at a famous temple in Kyoto.  But this Garuda had morphed into the form of a man.  Beautiful.

    Parent
    jealous (none / 0) (#57)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 03:08:28 PM EST


    Parent
    Go. You especially would enjoy the (none / 0) (#79)
    by oculus on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 04:46:34 PM EST
    Buddhist statues.

    Parent
    someday (none / 0) (#86)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 05:09:22 PM EST


    Parent
    Good. (none / 0) (#88)
    by oculus on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 05:10:15 PM EST


    Parent
    Promising "this is only the beginning," (none / 0) (#4)
    by nycstray on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 11:20:05 AM EST
    LANHAM, Md. - Promising "this is only the beginning," President Barack Obama announced more than $8 billion in federal loan guarantees Tuesday for the construction of the first nuclear power plant in the United States in nearly three decades.
    link

    I'm personally in favor of nuclear power (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by andgarden on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 11:23:29 AM EST
    so I'm open to the possibility that this is good news.

    Parent
    nuclear schmuclear (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by Dadler on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 11:39:01 AM EST
    Here in southern california there is no excuse, except unfathomable stupidity and corruption, for not having solar cells on every roof from the Mexican Border to Santa Barbara and beyond.  Every single roof.  Talk about a jobs initiative for the region.

    And imagine what a really huge earthquake in SoCal would do to San Onofre, or will do, since it WILL happen someday.  Not a pretty thought.

    Parent

    As a native ca gal (none / 0) (#10)
    by nycstray on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 11:57:33 AM EST
    I most def say NIMBY to NP plants! Solar and wind are just fine by me . . . you can even put them on my roof, in my front yard, etc ;)

    Parent
    Wind (none / 0) (#14)
    by republicratitarian on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 12:46:26 PM EST
    Weren't they trying to do a large wind farm in CA only to have the land designated as a federal wildlife preserve or something like that?

    Parent
    There are large wind farms in (none / 0) (#21)
    by Inspector Gadget on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 01:22:28 PM EST
    Southern California...drove through them a few years ago. It's actually quite magnificent to see.

    Parent
    I go by the Altamont Pass one (none / 0) (#26)
    by nycstray on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 01:33:49 PM EST
    on the way to the cabin. It's been around since the 70s. I like the way they look, especially in that stretch of landscape.

    Parent
    I agree (none / 0) (#29)
    by Inspector Gadget on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 01:50:02 PM EST
    Found the sight of all those windmills quite awesome.

    The valley of 1000 windmills on the Island of Crete was the first windmill farm I ever saw...it was beautiful!


    Parent

    Corruption sounds right... (none / 0) (#12)
    by kdog on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 12:35:40 PM EST
    now if big business could charge you for the power generated by the sun, instead of just harnessing...then we'd have solar power up the wazoo by now.

    I suspect the big money is in generating the power, not harnessing it...and the sun generates it for free...thats no good from a profit standpoint.  

    Parent

    There could be big money in (none / 0) (#15)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 12:51:05 PM EST
    making the panels and controllers and stuff.

    Parent
    Indeed... (none / 0) (#16)
    by kdog on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 12:56:56 PM EST
    but once the panels are installed there is no money to be made until they need parts/repairs/replacement.  With nuclear, coal, etc. you make money generating the power everyday.

    Parent
    True, the difference between being a (none / 0) (#18)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 01:12:19 PM EST
    business that's in a service industry vs. a product industry.

    Parent
    Big Energy's influence in government... (none / 0) (#22)
    by kdog on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 01:23:24 PM EST
    will fight tooth and nail to limit the spread of solar.  Partner that with the significantly higher start-uop costs to solar and its a real tough nut to crack for the solar power industry...they need to increase their lobbying allocations substantially if they hope to get anywhere:)

    Parent
    SoCal Edison wants to cover California rooftops (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 01:28:39 PM EST
    SoCal Edison wants to cover California rooftops with solar panels

    We've seen a few massive solar farms pop up out west, but it looks like Southern California Edison is taking a different approach: instead of cluttering up the desert, the company plans to build a distributed solar array on the rooftops of commercial buildings throughout SoCal.

    The plan is to spend $875M over five years to cover about two square miles of rooftop with the panels, which will alleviate stress on the grid by generating around 250 megawatts of juice, as much as a small power plant.

    That's enough to light up 162,000 homes, but it's still a little short of the record 280-megawatt Solana installation planned in Arizona -- come on, Cali, let's see a little fight.



    Parent
    Interesting.... (none / 0) (#27)
    by kdog on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 01:38:54 PM EST
    If the utilities are billing by usage with solar like they do with other forms, and I assume they are/would...then I'd see no reason the utilities wouldn't be all over the solar thing...seems like a no-brainer.

    Parent
    Drove by a large (none / 0) (#20)
    by Inspector Gadget on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 01:21:26 PM EST
    solar energy plant every day on my way to work in Tempe, AZ just a few years ago.

    I think this is a bigger one...and not sure where it is located in the Phoenix area.

    Parent

    Great stuff. (none / 0) (#49)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 02:52:03 PM EST
    I wouldn't have thought you could get enough juice out of a panel to run a water pump, but it sure looks like you can.


    Parent
    Mentioning that solar panels (none / 0) (#96)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 06:24:24 PM EST
    don't work all the time.... say at night... is a cheap shot?

    There is a reason that solar panels and wind power..... for individuals/residential.... hasn't taken off.

    The first cost is excessive. Technology may, in the future, overcome that but that is not the present case.

    TANSTAAFL

    There aint no such thing as a free lunch.

    Parent

    If you have solar power or wind power (none / 0) (#70)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 04:08:47 PM EST
    even on an individual basis you must have batteries or be prepared to not have power on some occasions.

    And since all of our heating, cooling, refrigeration, etc., anything in our homes that uses electricity uses AC vs the DC produced by panels.... you will also need an inverter. And Inverters are very inefficent.  

    Batteries themselves are nasty beasties that pollute the envirnoment, do not last forever and are costly...

    TANSTAAFL

    There aint no such thing as a free lunch..

    How ya been, kdog? BTW - I had a great tournament. Wish you could have come. Came in second. And have the 1099 to prove it!

    Parent

    The solar powered farm water pumps I googled (none / 0) (#71)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 04:16:35 PM EST
    run on DC. I assume you could manufacture various household appliances to run on DC as well. But, surely an expensive proposition, and beholden to cyclical power supplies as you said...

    Parent
    I assume you can purchase (none / 0) (#73)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 04:33:13 PM EST
    various appliances that run off DC but I'm guessing that the prices would be prohibitive for a primary resident. And the batteries would be a huge problem.

    Here's hoping the environmental wackos don't tie everything up in court cases.

    Parent

    I think you are the first cousin (none / 0) (#101)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 09:34:54 PM EST
    of Dark Avenger......

    I will try and make this as plain as possible.
    My comments were in relation to individual residences.

    In that respect any use of standalone solar or wind power to produce electricity means that the user must be prepared to be without power from time to or else be equipped with a backup system.

    The backup system could be a simple automatic connection to the grid. This has the advantage of not requiring local power storage....batteries. This is terrible from an environmental viewpoint because it requires that the grid be engineered to assume that it is always providing power to 100% of the users.

    It could be batteries. Unless a shutdown system was installed to power down all but essential devices the batteries required would be large and expensive. Think about a daily drain of 90 KWH over 24 hours and we can easily see PEAK requirements of 200 kwh, or more.

    Along with that comes the equipment to keep the batteries properly charged. And along with that we have the need to vent them and service from time to time.

    In both cases I assume that first cost and availability dictates that standard AC appliances are used. This means an inverter. Inverters are inefficient and costly and a converter will be required to charge the batteries. More inefficiency.

    As I wrote, TANSTAAFL.

    Could it be done? Yes. Would it make sense? No.
    There are several large solar farms in existence providing power. The cost per kwh is not competitive.

    Will it get better? I hope so.

    When I redid the Palatial Retirement Compound my personal solution was to use all the insulation needed/recommended and install all new energy efficient appliances.


    Parent

    Yes, you are Dark Avenger's (none / 0) (#113)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Feb 17, 2010 at 08:38:44 AM EST
    first cousin.

    Let me know when all that technology is available for everyday type use. I'll be first in line.

    BTW - 90% efficiency means that at 150a you are losing 15a.

    Have a nice day.

    Parent

    Thats my man... (none / 0) (#102)
    by kdog on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 09:42:43 PM EST
    good stuff, wish I had been there sweatin' ya.

    That electricity stuff always baffled me, dealing with it more as I get into water heaters...voltages phases kw's...it's all greek to me.  I'm scared of the circuit breaker.

    Parent

    Yeah, we could have had bottle or two of (none / 0) (#107)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 09:55:33 PM EST
    good red!

    I use to have business cards that said "Engineer" on them. Then I went into sales and now I am so far out of date even a Best Buy clerk can wow me!

    ;-)

    Parent

    I'm torn... (none / 0) (#6)
    by magster on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 11:37:01 AM EST
    between the existence of runaway CO2 levels in the atmosphere and ocean versus human nature defeating safety protocol on something as dangerous as nuclear power.

    Parent
    Let's remember Chernobyl (none / 0) (#37)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 02:30:58 PM EST
    was an inherently dangerous and crummy design, and nobody is suggesting building anything like it here-- or anywhere else.

    If they use the kind of design the French have and not the kind our aging plants used (don't ask me the details, it's something I've read repeatedly but am incapable of coherently reproducing), it's a whole different deal-- much, much safer, with zero chance of a Chernobyl-style meltdown or even a near-meltdown like Three Mile Island.

    We're struggling with whether to close down an aging, leaking and badly managed plant here in VT, but if it is closed, we're all going to be killed by a major rise in electricity cost, and we currently have one of the lowest in the country.  Arrgghh.

    Parent

    current plants (I think they are up to (none / 0) (#43)
    by jeffinalabama on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 02:39:13 PM EST
    5th generation) are much more efficient and safer. Simple fact. Doesn't mean I want one in my backyard, but I prefer electricity to not having it.

    And since one is sort of in my backyard, at least as far as prevailing winds go... oh well.

    I can't wait for fusion reactors!

    Parent

    We absolutely need to build new plants. (none / 0) (#47)
    by tigercourse on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 02:45:16 PM EST
    The failure to construct new ones over the past decades while the existing facilities aged was a huge mistake. One of the early positions that Obama took was pro nuclear power. I supported that then and I'm happy he's starting to follow through on it.

    Parent
    Id feel alot better about it (none / 0) (#32)
    by cawaltz on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 02:06:22 PM EST
    if I knew where the waste was going to the nuclear energy. Last I heard no one was real crazy about the idea of being the next Yucca Mountain.

    Parent
    Yucca Mountain has been shut down (none / 0) (#105)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 09:47:06 PM EST
    Not because of technical issues. But because of political issues.

    Plan B is to encase the spent fuel rods in concrete and store them on site.

    Shades of Jack Bauer and the Rogue Russians!

    Parent

    How much solar or wind would this $8+ Billion get (5.00 / 0) (#98)
    by jawbone on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 07:25:56 PM EST
    us?

    And what WILL we do with the radioactive waste?

    It's not only CA which could use solar collectors: According to a scientist on WNYC (sometime last year), if available rooftops in the NYC had solar panels on them, even with our weather, even with the limited efficiency of today's solar panels, electricity for the entire city and the surrounding suburbs could be provided by the rooftop collectors.

    There was no map provided, so I don't know how far out it would provide electricity for, but it was definitely said it would provide for all the well-known suburban areas around the city.

    I wonder how Obama's Secretary of Energy, fellow Nobel Laureate Steven Chu, feels about how things are going with Obama's planning?

    Parent

    First thing I think he's done right. (none / 0) (#11)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 12:19:03 PM EST


    Parent
    Today's edition of... (none / 0) (#17)
    by kdog on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 01:11:26 PM EST
    "They can lock you up for that?"...man could be caged for contempt of court. And the reason he may be in contempt you ask?  He took his little girl to church and had her baptized.

    Sounds like your typical bitter divorce between a couple of "winners"...but cages shouldn't be part of this equation...that much we can be sure of.

    Sounds like this guy (none / 0) (#19)
    by jbindc on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 01:19:22 PM EST
    Is trying to get his name in the paper and is practicing the legal skills he wants to develop.

    That being said - what a jerk he is.

    Parent

    Probably right... (none / 0) (#24)
    by kdog on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 01:27:38 PM EST
    running to the cameras is rarely a good sign. I'm guessing his ex is no prize either, trying to bar the kid from the father's religion...that's a jerk-move too imo, whats wrong with exposure to both religions?

    I'm mainly just appalled that cages could be entering the picture...thats the real crime here.  The poor daughter has enough problems without dad going to jail.

    Parent

    That depends (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by jbindc on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 01:55:22 PM EST
    Some people don't think there's anything wrong with exposing the kid to multiple religion - but frankly, many people who have a religion believe that it isn't like a cafeteria - it is instead the basis for the core values of the family.  So, on some level, what this guy is doing is pretty offensive - using his daughter as a tool in this very public manner for one of the most private of decisions.

    Putting that aside, he made a choice when they got married (despite what he said - HE made the choice) to marry and live under the Jewish faith with his wife.  Along with converting and marrying under that faith, he made a promise, that she relied on, that any children of that marriage would be raised Jewish. Because a judge told him to not do anything with the girl's religion for 30 days (and I 'm not arguing the validity of the judge's order), he felt he was above the law, and frankly, just wanted to be a jerk and rub his wife's nose in it.  Sorry - he doesn't get to defy a judge's order just because he feels like it.

    I don't know much about the Jewish religion, but the fact that he baptized his daughter as a Catholic is a problem.  Someone can help me out here, but I believe if the wife wins, and the daughter is raised Jewish (and wants to continue to live as a practicing Jew as an adult) she might have to take extra steps, such as converting because she was already christened?

    This was all about him - this has nothing to do with the welfare of his daughter.  He is a media wh*re who should not only be ashamed of himself, but he should not get off scot-free in this case.  I don't know what can happen to him (and no, I'm not suggesting jail), but he DID defy a direct order from a judge.  He should get a HUGE fine and, assuming they would be equal parents, he should have a VERY high bar to cross to prove he's worthy of raising this child.

    Parent

    Huge fine for what? (none / 0) (#31)
    by kdog on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 02:00:34 PM EST
    Entering a building with a cross on top and wetting his daughters brow?  Are you nuts?..:)  What I think needs to happen here is to get outta the courtroom, away from the lawyers, sit down like two normal human beings and work it out for their daughter's sake.  And put superstitions on the backburner for their daughter's sake.

    Moral to this story for me...don't marry into a family that doesn't love you the way you are...you're asking for trouble.

    Parent

    That's pretty offensive (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by jbindc on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 02:08:52 PM EST
    Just because you may not believe in religion doesn't make people who do "crazy".  It's not just a "superstition" - some people would say that they get a natural high and those who have to ingest chemicals into their body to get high and get through life are the ones with the problem.

    He.Defied.A.Judge's.Order.  He doens't have any right to do that, no matter what you may think kdog.  I don't know what the judge should do, but this guy seems like a real piece of work.  And frankly, as a Catholic - I still find what this guy did reprehensible.  How dare he use the Catholic Church as tool to get back at his soon to be ex-wife?!

    Again - all this happened because of choices HE made that other people relied on. Now, halfway through the game, he's saying, "Sorry - changed my mind."  Well, he doesn't have to right to make that decision by himself for his daughter - which is the whole point of this.  He made a unilateral decision when he had no right to.

    Why do you feel bad for people who make choices for themselves and then don't want to live with the results?

    Parent

    Because the punishments... (none / 0) (#35)
    by kdog on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 02:21:39 PM EST
    the unnatural "results" we love to dole out never seem to fit the crime...our cures are worse than the disease.  

    And frankly, I don't think judges should have the authority to make such orders...you can't take your own flesh and blood into certain buildings in the middle of a divorce? Gimme a break...family court is as screwed up as criminal court.

    Parent

    Well (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by jbindc on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 02:27:17 PM EST
    I do'nt know about the judge's order, but until somebody overrules him, his word is the law and that guy should have adhered to it - it was only for 30 days, for cryin' out loud!  If wanting his daughter to be baptised was so important to him, he wouldn't have waited until after he had a restraining order against him and he wouldn't have invited the media.

    This has absolutely nothing to do with him or whatever beliefs he holds.  This is just all about being a jerk.

    Parent

    To be fair... (none / 0) (#42)
    by kdog on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 02:38:45 PM EST
    we haven't heard nothing from the wife...my gut says there is plenty of jerk to go 'round here.  

    But no need for cages, to be sure.

    Parent

    that's why I said (none / 0) (#50)
    by jbindc on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 02:55:47 PM EST
    slap a huge fine on him

    Parent
    Thats excessive... (none / 0) (#52)
    by kdog on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 02:57:15 PM EST
    but at least not physically torturous.

    Parent
    Just which judge's orders (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by Cream City on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 05:09:39 PM EST
    would you uphold?  What does the guy need to do to finally cross your line -- put her in a convent?

    Parent
    The line for caging CC? (none / 0) (#106)
    by kdog on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 09:50:03 PM EST
    Abuse or neglect sounds about right to me.

    He's a judge, not a god.  I question the right of a judge to tell a parent where they can take their kid, as long as no abuse or neglect is involved.

    I can only imagine what a family court judge would say to my old man taking me to the bar or the track as a kid...lord knows where I went as an infant.  The "order" here is bad enough, never mind throwing cages in the mix.  It's ridiculous...even coming from a god, much less some judge.

    Parent

    Good, then we agree (5.00 / 1) (#110)
    by Cream City on Wed Feb 17, 2010 at 12:25:07 AM EST
    because what he did was abuse.

    You think abuse can only be physical, though, I bet.

    Parent

    Religous indoctrination... (5.00 / 1) (#111)
    by kdog on Wed Feb 17, 2010 at 07:48:42 AM EST
    as child abuse?  I'd entertain that argument,  but it is certainly not the level of abuse that involves state intervention...we don't have enough workers in child services to tackle that mess.

    And what of moms forcing the baby into the jewish faith?  That's ok since no judge said otherwise?  C'mon.

    Parent

    Mom did not force it -- (5.00 / 1) (#120)
    by Cream City on Wed Feb 17, 2010 at 03:10:08 PM EST
    as dad agreed.  Until he didn't and used it as a weapon in divorce.  If you haven't been in a divorce like that, you won't see that, I know.

    And yes, religious indoctrination AND CONVERSION, note that dad went through with the baptism, can be abusive.  A kid got killed in my town amid one.

    Parent

    It's all forced Cream... (5.00 / 1) (#123)
    by kdog on Wed Feb 17, 2010 at 04:55:59 PM EST
    the child is unable to consent to any of this superstition nonsense...a lottery of birth thang.  Unfortunately for this kid it looks like she's drawn some lousy numbers with the parents acting like the juveniles...mom and pop and lawyers and judge from what little I can tell.

    This was a Catholic baptism, unless its changed a lot since my last niece was baptized it is no more traumatic than taking a bath...the kid was in no physical danger.  Mental?  That's a fuzzy line...thats why I find the religous indoctrination as child abuse argument so interesting.  Though one could also argue all parenting contains some form of indoctrination, religous and/or otherwise.  

    Parent

    Of course. But please read THIS case (none / 0) (#124)
    by Cream City on Thu Feb 18, 2010 at 03:30:28 PM EST
    for a change, and what I said, as nothing you have said speaks to evidence that Mom forced it.

    Dad forced it.  Mom asked that Dad not be allowed to force it, and he was ordered not to do so, and he did so, anyway.

    So Mom did not force it, and Dad did, and you defend him because all faiths are forced on children -- except in this case.  Silliness.

    Parent

    In this case judaism... (none / 0) (#125)
    by kdog on Thu Feb 18, 2010 at 04:00:00 PM EST
    is being forced on the child.  Originally by mutual consent of the parents, and now just moms consent since they're splitsville.  You really can't see that?

    Parent
    Saw it on GMA this morning (none / 0) (#28)
    by Inspector Gadget on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 01:39:03 PM EST
    1. The little girl is too young to understand any church.
    2. The guy called the media to tell them what he was doing, asked them to meet him at church, and they did (clearly a slow news day).
    3. Perhaps the Jewish judge who made this idiotic ruling needed to be called out for it. How can it possibly harm anyone to understand more than one religion...especially when each parent is of a different faith? What makes the mother's religion healthier for the child than the father's is?
    4. What has been revealed on the story so far has me leaning toward thinking the dad is being shut out and has decided to protest loudly.


    Parent
    Understanding it? Being baptized in it (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by Cream City on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 05:05:36 PM EST
    is a bit more.  Usually appreciate your comments very much, but really -- of course, it is a good thing for young people old enough to understand comparative religions to be giving opportunity to understand their differences and similarities and such.  

    But as you say, this little girl is too young for that -- yet you are justifying this parent converting the child.  He had her baptized. Maybe you missed that, or actually don't know what it means?

    Just these lines alone from the link ought to be instructive about this guy:  He's a liar and has been one for years now -- lied to his spouse, lied to his family, lied to his priest in leaving, lied to his rabbi in joining, and now he's lying to a judge.

    Reyes was Catholic, but he converted to Judaism to please his in-laws. He has said the decision wasn't "voluntary."  Despite his conversion, Reyes, 35, said he never stopped practicing Catholicism.

    Jeesh.

    Parent

    Sure I understand it (none / 0) (#89)
    by Inspector Gadget on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 05:23:52 PM EST
    I was baptised Catholic, even confirmed. All before I was old enough to make those decisions for myself. Once I was able to make my own choices, I did, and I do not subscribe to the beliefs of any organized religion.

    I shouldn't have commented without enough background.


    Parent

    Live blog with 2004 Green VP candidate... (none / 0) (#23)
    by lambert on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 01:24:20 PM EST
    ... Pat LaMarche at Corrente.

    nother day (none / 0) (#34)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 02:09:11 PM EST
    nother billboard.
    the boarders are making me miss the birthers.

    Yep. It's Obama's faulth that the (5.00 / 0) (#39)
    by jeffinalabama on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 02:33:20 PM EST
    economy collapsed and small businesses are hurting. I guess before he was elected to the Senate, he was part of the Bilderburg conspiracy. Or maybe the Knights Templar.

    Or was he a plotter in the Rotfang conspiracy, the one that the Aurors are using to bring down the Ministy of Magic using Dark Magic and gum disease?

    Geez. Why didn't the idjit donate the money to either a) a food pantry, or b) his/her favorite small business?

    Parent

    Yes (2.00 / 1) (#54)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 03:01:57 PM EST
    Obama had nothing to do with the collapse of our economy or anything else to do with governing.  He was too busy running for president to actually even do his job as senator, so his hands are clean ;-).

    Parent
    I have to agree with you there. (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by jeffinalabama on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 03:10:00 PM EST
    He was a bit player in a big drama. As you well, know, Teresa, I'm not a big fan of his. But he didn't bring the pain down, years of bad policy did, dating back to the passage of Garn-St. Germain in the Reagan years and Gramm-Leach-Biley in 1999.

    Parent
    Im curious (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 03:15:52 PM EST
    what exactly they would impeach him for.
    being a democrat?  being black?

    Parent
    Birth certificate. (none / 0) (#74)
    by oculus on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 04:39:00 PM EST


    Parent
    how do you know this? (none / 0) (#77)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 04:43:32 PM EST
    doesnt say that on the board.
    and he has one anyway, right?
    we have all seen it.


    Parent
    Ah... (none / 0) (#78)
    by jbindc on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 04:46:24 PM EST
    you've only seen a PICTURE. Photoshop can do amazing things ;)

    Parent
    Just kidding. I don't think they have (none / 0) (#80)
    by oculus on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 04:48:09 PM EST
    anything else on him--yet.  

    Parent
    How hard was it to get Clinton? (none / 0) (#81)
    by ruffian on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 04:49:49 PM EST
    File a civil suit against him of some type...maybe related to that house in Chicago? Or the birth certificate? Trip him up in a deposition....

    Not an exact analogy - not saying Clinton didn't bring it on himself in the deposition.

    But I can see that it would not be a hard game to play.

    Parent

    Assuming (none / 0) (#82)
    by jbindc on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 04:51:15 PM EST
    A civil suit actually DIDN't turn up something suspect. (Not saying it would, but anything is possible)

    Parent
    I think that particular game (none / 0) (#85)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 05:08:42 PM EST
    would be a lot harder to play with Obama.


    Parent
    Headline today, maybe on Huff Po, (none / 0) (#93)
    by oculus on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 05:49:39 PM EST
    birthers are working on Hillary Clinton birthcertificate now.  What.  Chicago suburts don't qualify?

    Parent
    LOL (none / 0) (#94)
    by Inspector Gadget on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 05:53:24 PM EST
    Whatever for?

    Parent
    It's the pay raise (none / 0) (#95)
    by nycstray on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 06:11:22 PM EST
    Bullspit again

    If they go all nutso, I wonder how much higher her approval rating will go, lol!~

    Parent

    Ken Starr is back in the news.... (none / 0) (#90)
    by Inspector Gadget on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 05:27:14 PM EST
    new book out on the Clinton impeachment!!

    It was on GMA this morning. Great interview...George Steph... asked Starr why he didn't stop asking questions after the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, etc. request from Monica to get her attorney in the room. Listen to his response....he circles and circles but refuses to answer.

    Parent

    Henry Paulson (NYT op-ed) (none / 0) (#44)
    by KeysDan on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 02:40:48 PM EST
    wants financial regulatory reform.  It is just that he has not entirely warmed to recent more populist proposals.  His preference is for the Federal Reserve to be the systemic risk regulator. However, congressional preferences for a council of regulators might also work so as long as it is led by the Treasury Secretary or the Fed Chairman. Too many governmental panels would be slow to act in a crisis, and would not permit action, apparently, like he gave. Having gotten that off his chest, he proceeds to identify the real economic culprits: policies that favor homeownership (tax deductions on mortgages, apparently), and, of course, the Republican (and now seemingly Obama favorite) "reforming" "entitlement" programs: Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security. Yes, we must tackle these, our major economic challenges. Entitlements are equated with welfare, although social security, for example, is FICA (Federal Insurance Contribution Act), an insurance program paid out of wages and benefits and given out based on the amount paid in and years worked. Maybe, Paulson would like to pay back the interest on the bonds bought with surplus social security contributions over the years to finance wars and tax cuts, while helping to make the budgets look good.

    Report re security at Osaka airport (none / 0) (#48)
    by oculus on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 02:47:52 PM EST
    ofr travelers flying to U.S.  Regular security at security check point.  No need to remove shoes.  No puffers or body scanners.  

    At gate:  security.  Looked into every carry on but did not undo my plethora of bubble-wrapped pottery.  A young female patted me down and also patted down the males in line behind me, including up to but no including crotch.  

    Thanks for the report.... (none / 0) (#51)
    by kdog on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 02:56:30 PM EST
    Good to know the crotch is off limits if I ever go to Osaka, hope the same applies in Guadalajara...only one person I want touchin' my junk south of the border:)

    Parent
    Aguy in front of me in security line (none / 0) (#75)
    by oculus on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 04:40:36 PM EST
    in CA though had on really heavy sweat pant.  The TSA person made him pull them out so TSA person could look inside!

    Parent
    Damn... (none / 0) (#100)
    by kdog on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 09:20:56 PM EST
    awfully close to sexual assault...especially if he was going commando.

    Parent
    He must have been fully covered inside as (none / 0) (#108)
    by oculus on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 10:38:41 PM EST
    he didn't flinch.  My first thought, which you will appreciate, it the requirement in court and often in prison, for those in custody to put there thumbs in the waistband near the hips.   But, the pull out thing was new to me.

    Parent
    Not new to me unfortunately... (none / 0) (#112)
    by kdog on Wed Feb 17, 2010 at 07:52:10 AM EST
    when I was mildly sexually assaulted by an officer of the law I was wearing sweats...he pulled 'em out like you describe and slid his hand down in my drawers...I still get angry thinking about it all these years later.  

    The way the NYPD rolls though, I guess I should consider myself lucky nothing went up my bum as well.

    Parent

    Score! (none / 0) (#53)
    by waldenpond on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 02:59:26 PM EST
    Watching USA v SUI hockey on USA network.  USA just got it's 2nd at 14:00 in the 2nd.

    Score! (none / 0) (#55)
    by waldenpond on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 03:03:10 PM EST
    USA gets 3 at 11:35 in the 2nd.

    Parent
    Went skiing on pres's day (none / 0) (#61)
    by CST on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 03:23:56 PM EST
    And now I hurt, everywhere.

    Buddy of mine is a snowboard instructer at Stowe, had the day off, so we went exploring.  The cool thing about skiing with someone who works at a mountain - they know all the good woods.  Only did one run that was an actual run all day, and the snow was great.  The one not so cool thing - my skis are 12 years old, and for anyone who skis, that means they are long, straight, and really hard to ski through powder on.  So today I hurt, everywhere.

    Now I get to sit home and watch the Olympians show me how it's really done.

    Other thoughts - there are worse ways to live than as a ski/snowboard "bum".  Work at the mountain during the winter and summer camp/construction during the summer (for my friend at least).  Sometimes I get really sick of sitting in a cubicle - and my job lets me out every once in a while.  Although I guess anything gets old after a while - as aforementioned friend is going to law school in the fall.

    Trust me... (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 03:45:11 PM EST
    ...being a ski bum is definately a young person's game.  The soreness only gets worse with each passing year.  

    Parent
    You too eh?... (none / 0) (#64)
    by kdog on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 03:32:02 PM EST
    Playing ball in several inches of snow on Sunday still has me sore, its worse than running in sand...and I think I've got bruised ribs from a collision my skin and bones arse got the worst of.

    But its worth for a good time, ain't it CST?  

    And your buddy is nuts if he switches his office off the mountain...but I guess its always greener on the other side.

    Parent

    Definitely worth it (none / 0) (#66)
    by CST on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 03:41:45 PM EST
    But oh man... it hurts.  I've had the jelly-legs all day today.

    I've gone skiing before this year, but this was the first time I've been with someone who was better than me and it kicked my butt.  At one point one of my skis caught on a root forcing a split that I think I'll be feeling all week.  But it was still pretty awesome.

    Outdoor living is nice.  I imagine he's getting bored on an intelectual level though.  If only one could practice law while snowboarding...  There has to be some job like that somewhere.

    Parent

    My very last ski trip I did the splits in the lift (none / 0) (#76)
    by oculus on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 04:43:05 PM EST
    line and frayed tendon around knee.  Back on crutches.  I've done the splits before with no ill effects.  This time--not so lucky.

    Parent
    I spent a year as a ski bum inTelluride, CO. (none / 0) (#65)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 03:41:21 PM EST
    Throw out those nasty old skis. If you're not a frequent skier, just rent them for the day. They're not all that expensive and they're usually the very latest designs. They really do make them better these days...

    Parent
    I'm trying to get (none / 0) (#67)
    by CST on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 03:45:07 PM EST
    back into skiing more regularly, I did a lot as a kid, but then cut way back in college and post-college.

    My plan is to wait to the end of this season and try to buy some used Demos on the cheap.  I know the new ones are a lot different, but this style has worked for me for almost 20 years so I've been reluctant to switch before this.  However, now that I realize I am not in the shape I was when I bought them, I think I could use some of those new-fangled, easier-on-the-knees skis.

    Parent

    Sounds like a good plan! (none / 0) (#72)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 04:22:30 PM EST


    Parent
    Score! (none / 0) (#83)
    by waldenpond on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 05:02:25 PM EST
    Women's hockey (USA v Russia) on MSNBC.  USA 4-0 in the 1st.

    LARP (none / 0) (#91)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 05:33:13 PM EST
    I have no words.
    but empty your mouth before you hear the sound.

    which is more weird (none / 0) (#92)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 05:36:18 PM EST
    this or the Palestinian protesters

    Parent
    Tony Perry reports from (none / 0) (#99)
    by oculus on Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 08:20:25 PM EST
    Afghanistan in today's LAT:  LAT

    Tuesday Morning Open Thread | 113 comments (113 topical)

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