Wednesday Morning Open Thread

After going all wonky depressing on you this morning, I was looking for something fun. Nothing caught my eye. This post from Balloon Juice did however. Setting aside the upside down premise that it is Latino voters who should be concerned about voting Dem, as opposed to Dems being concerned about getting Latinos to vote for them, this part bothered me:

[N]o political party is going to take a minority with a one-election attention span seriously. [. . .] Itís hard work and itís going to take more than an election or two. [. . .] I have no doubt that weíll find a home in the Democratic party, but Latinos need to make a home there on their terms, so their influence will go beyond a one-election marriage of convenience.

And here I thought Latinos were a solid part of the Dem base. One election? In case anyone is wondering, Latinos voted for Clinton by 61-24 in 92, by 72-21 in 96, and for Gore by 62-38. John Kerry, terrible candidate, even won Latinos by 53-44 (oh BTW, W and Rove really did a lot of Latino outreach in case anyone noticed.) One election? Really? Maybe we need pols who at least pretend to care about Latinos. See Clinton, Bill.

Open Thread.

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    Maye we need pols who care about (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by MO Blue on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 10:29:44 AM EST
    people other than the savvy business men.

    For fun (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 10:31:02 AM EST
    My husband runs around the house now trying to imitate Nixon flashing his V for victory, and he says, "I am not a witch."

    If you have a chance to read Digby's (none / 0) (#18)
    by oculus on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 11:14:46 AM EST
    post about civilian/military, what's your reaction?

    More on Whitman's employment practices (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by MO Blue on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 10:35:19 AM EST
    Jill Armstrong, a former full-time nanny for Meg Whitman's family, came to the defense of another onetime member of the GOP gubernatorial candidate's household staff on Tuesday.
    But she described Whitman as "cheap" and said she was surprised when her boss at first balked at paying the agreed salary - arguing that Armstrong didn't "deserve" it because she wasn't yet working full-time as a nanny.
    Armstrong told the Chronicle -- which confirmed she was hired to work for the former eBay CEO during the summer of 1998 -- that she decided to quit her job after just two months because she couldn't take it anymore.

    "I had enough," she said in an interview, describing trouble getting paid what she believed she was owed, and challenges in dealing with household chores and in supervising Whitman's two young sons. HuffPo

    C'mon BTD... (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 10:46:49 AM EST
    you're killin' me with this Latino talk...it's a rude enough awakening to be back amongst gringos:)

    I swear hitting customs in Atlanta was like hitting a switch...from smiles and conversation and kindness to "over here sir, can't you read the sign" general miserability.  WTF is wrong with us?

    I'm still too aglow to be depressed...gimme a few days:)

    J-E-T-S (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 10:50:29 AM EST

    That should cheer you up.


    I heard... (none / 0) (#11)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 10:59:27 AM EST
    we avoided our usual m.o. of a Buffalo letdown.

    Next victim, Bad Favre and the Vikes!


    When I chatted up my tutoree this Monday (none / 0) (#16)
    by oculus on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 11:11:24 AM EST
    re L.T., tutoree informed me he no longer cared about L.T.'s accomplishments as he is no longer a Charger.  It really is "just a business."  

    Nah... (none / 0) (#22)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 11:27:31 AM EST
    it's not that...he's a true Charger fan is all....a homer.  Homers root for the jersey, not who wears it.

    Yes! it's a Mon night game (none / 0) (#25)
    by nycstray on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 11:42:37 AM EST
    I get to watch :)

    kdog "aglow." Now there's an image! (none / 0) (#8)
    by oculus on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 10:51:46 AM EST
    Every trip... (none / 0) (#12)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 11:04:16 AM EST
    it gets harder to get on the plane back home.

    You're more the world traveler than I...do you find Americans more miserable than the majority of countries/cultures?  I mean I know we live in a rat race, but its still the land of milk and money...why are Americans so miserable?


    Science experiment (5.00 / 0) (#40)
    by waldenpond on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 12:37:52 PM EST
    Went on a cruise once (never will again) but it was an interesting fishbowl type experience.  

    You could tell which people were American by their behavior.  They were pushy around the food, they never left the ship.... you could even tell while sitting on the deck chairs... they just didn't smile.  We were asked three times if we were Canadian. :)


    When I traveled a lot, back in the day, (none / 0) (#41)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 12:41:40 PM EST
    it was always easy to pick out the Germans on the beach. They were the loudest, sternest, biggest-bellied ones wearing the smallest speedo bathing suits...

    Ever read Paul Theroux's book about (none / 0) (#57)
    by oculus on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 01:30:10 PM EST
    traveling around the Med.?  He ends up on a cruise ship at one point and is merciless in his critique of his fellow passengers.  

    Cruises are cool... (none / 0) (#65)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 02:26:11 PM EST
    maybe just a bad group waldenpond?

    My only beef with them is the stays are too short in the ports of call, other than that they're a blast...hijinks on the high seas beats flying the unfriendly skies everyday of the week.


    11 days (none / 0) (#74)
    by waldenpond on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 04:20:47 PM EST
    Huge ship, thousands, too many to get to know.  It was weird to me that there would be thousands of people and only a couple hundred would go do activities.   The activities were great.  We went tubing in the old water ways at the sugar cane fields, hiking, biking, kayak and snorkel, submarine, etc and others would merely get off and take a shuttle to the nearest mini-mall.

    Ship time was claustrophobic and the food was terrible.  Problems with the old ship and few activities for the 14 year old.  

    We'll go direct next time and skip the ship.


    It's true. I just started reading a novel (none / 0) (#15)
    by oculus on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 11:10:07 AM EST
    set in Mumbai.  The author and protagonist are Australian.  As the protagonist rides the bus from the airport into the city he sees the immense slums, feels guilty, then sees how resolute, handsome, and smiling some of the people out and about in the slums appear.  

    Seriously... (none / 0) (#21)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 11:25:53 AM EST
    people who by all rights should be shaking their fists at the heavens instead are downright jovial.

    Is it too much television warping our perspective?  Too spoiled as children?  I don't get it.  


    Well (5.00 / 2) (#27)
    by squeaky on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 11:46:45 AM EST
    First off, welcome back, but I think that part of the problem is that visiting a place is entirely different from living in a place.

    While on holiday, everything is at its best. Your friends, lovers, the difference in the landscape is all seen through rose colored glasses.

    Not long after you move to a place that seemed amazing from travel, life sets in, and the unfamiliar wonder, gets very familiar and the demons set in...

    Seen it happen to friends....  

    bottom line is that living somewhere is quite different from visiting.


    I'm with squeaky on this one. (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 11:58:53 AM EST
    kdog, you were in a resort/tourist town. I lived in Telluride, CO for a ski season. I never saw a frown the whole time I was there. I have friends who've lived there since the mid-80's. They have lots to complain about...

    Vallarta... (none / 0) (#50)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 01:09:14 PM EST
    I could understand...tourist town based on tourist dollars, better well be smiling and jovial towards tourists...good for business.  

    But Guadalajara and Lake Chapala I noticed it too.  


    Fair enough. (none / 0) (#52)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 01:17:43 PM EST
    I traveled to Australia and New Zealand years ago and their customs people were much friendlier than the ones here at LAX.

    Although, are you comparing the customs officers in Atlanta with the general population in Guadalajara and Lake Chapala? If seems like not an apples to apples.

    We're thinking of heading to Mexico or Guatemala for xmas...


    May have been before 9-11, (none / 0) (#53)
    by oculus on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 01:23:31 PM EST
    can't remember, but I did see a young man talk himself past customs officer in Atlanta.  Took lots of talking.  

    Comparing customs to customs... (none / 0) (#54)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 01:25:14 PM EST
    and general demeanor to general demeanor.

    Maybe it's just the pleasant vibes I'm giving off south of the border...give what you get.

    Another example in one of the viejo mercados in Guadalajara...one senora walked me halfway across the market, leaving her stand unattended, just to help me find some silver for my mom.  Sh*t like that.  Now an American retailer will be helpful too and send business away on occasion, but walk you there?    

    How cool are the old markets btw?  Got lunch by myself while the special lady was working...torta ahugada y dos tacos para 20 pesos.  Orale!


    Ya, I love traveling in Mexico. (none / 0) (#61)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 01:50:06 PM EST
    Customs entering (none / 0) (#75)
    by Zorba on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 06:57:43 PM EST
    Stockholm, Sweden was a hoot.  Nobody stopped you, nobody asked any questions, you just walked down a long hallway carrying your bags, and there were a few customs agents posted along the hallway, nodding at everyone.  That was it.  (And, yes, this was well after 9/11.)

    Not even... (none / 0) (#77)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 07:42:24 PM EST
    ...the ever popular red light/green light game of chance?  

    Sweden is definitely on my list--and it wouldn't hurt my feelings if nobody saw my heinous passport photo!


    I loved Stockholm, (none / 0) (#80)
    by Zorba on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 08:01:25 PM EST
    even in early December, when we went.  Wouldn't mind living there if it weren't for the lack of daylight in winter.
    As for Customs- I don't know what criteria they used in Stockholm, but one or two people had been pulled aside, I guess for further questioning.  Most of us sailed through.
    Customs in Munich- the Germans were efficient but polite.  Customs in Amsterdam- maybe they were having a bad day, but I found the Dutch Customs people to be quite curt, almost rude.

    I love glass... (none / 0) (#82)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 08:58:33 PM EST
    ...so I want to pick up a few pieces over there.  Hello Kasta Boda!

    I've never really had a problem with customs, but as a fellow government worker, it is fairly easy to relate to my brothers and sisters in civil service.  A little interaction and a chance to practice the language basics (hello, how are you and the like).  When you're going a thankless job that tends to annoy people, sometimes a little human decency and a smile goes a long way.  At least it does for me...

    The good ones tend to understand that they are the first impression that people get of their country and that impression stays with them.


    Oh, yes (none / 0) (#88)
    by Zorba on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 04:00:04 PM EST
    The Swedish glass is a true art form.  Beautiful!  The other thing that had me salivating was the amber jewelry.  Mr. Zorba had to practically sit on me to prevent me from spending the farm on glass and amber!

    Probably right... (none / 0) (#30)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 11:57:09 AM EST
    It's a skewed short-term observation...but I still think it carries a little water.  

    Americans are far more miserable than their quality of life should dictate...just look at the the tea party scene...the poor skinny old man in Guadalajara with a club foot selling trinkets seems happier to me than the fat old man at the tea party rally riding a Medicare-funded scooter.  


    And I'm with you on this one. (none / 0) (#33)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 12:02:33 PM EST
    The native Mexican Indian kids selling "chickle" on street corners and their parents selling wood carvings at the TJ border crossing all seem pretty happy despite their relative poverty.

    More with kdog on this one... (none / 0) (#34)
    by jeffinalabama on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 12:09:58 PM EST
    I have lived elsewhere, and the cultural dynamics are at a tangent to ours. Parrallell is some areas, but drastically different in others.

    Here we look back before the last 30 -40 years of wealth transfer and romanticize that existence. There's also the lack of understanding of class consciousness or class dynamics.

    In South America, "Vida es dura," life is hard, is a common expression. More fatalistic, so more looking at the good things when they happen. Little expectation of change. Here people expect change for the better.

    I didn't live in any touristy areas, but in agricultural areas and some cities.

    there's no one correct answer, though. I admire the 'live for today, hope for tomorrow' ethos I saw in Central and South America, though.


    Simple Point (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by squeaky on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 12:49:42 PM EST
    It is a truism, that vacationing is quite different from settling down somewhere where the culture is foreign. And many who move to a place based on their vacations are sorely disappointed after several months.

    My point has nothing to do with comparing life in other cultures with life in current american culture. I certainly have seen rich culture in a relatively impoverished nation, like Cuba.

    In fact I have seen some local homeless people here who appear to be quite happy, just like the trinket salesman. Always a hello, some change, or buying their books or goods...  

    Of course there are also many homeless on the streets who are just as miserable as the ones kdog et al. are describing.  


    I agree, the point of a vacation is (none / 0) (#68)
    by KeysDan on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 02:56:58 PM EST
    to "vacate" from the usual and enjoy your life in different environs and from a different perspective.  The enjoyment often relates to how open you are to learning and enjoying another way of doing things.  Impressions can be formed in a positive or negative way based on initial, and, sometimes, superficial encounters--for example, the 'rude" waiter in Paris can readily turn off a tourist.

    However,  the 'rudeness' may be the reality of mistreatment of someone who is not likely to return, or, it could be a language problem, even for those who speak some French.

    Unlike many foreign languages, English is less rigid and mistakes understood (e.g. "throw me down the stairs the broom', while grammatically inelegant, the subject of the throw is clear).  Having worked and lived in places as different as France and UAE you soon start missing the smallest of things that have been taken for granted back home, although much less so in Paris.


    I'm with kdog too (none / 0) (#39)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 12:33:45 PM EST
    We are going through a big shock to how we perceive ourselves and what we value.  Maybe a punch in the face is a better description.

    Rural areas (none / 0) (#43)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 12:47:32 PM EST
    is at least part of the difference.  Main reason I needed to get out of the suburbs was all that pent-up rage flowing primarily from a frustrated sense of entitlement.  Hard to feel entitled to much when you work the land and Mother Nature.

    cuz BTD keeps telling us (none / 0) (#19)
    by CST on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 11:16:20 AM EST
    we're in a lost decade :)

    Actually I think there are some European countries that project an even more miserable disposition.  Just the word French conjures up a pouty face.  And don't get me started on the Germans/Russians, not exactly the friendliest of people.

    Whether that's the same as happiness I don't know.  I do think in general people in southern climates tend to be more... relaxed about life.  Must be the weather.


    it's all that vit D! {grin} (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by nycstray on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 11:38:37 AM EST
    That may very well (none / 0) (#44)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 12:48:38 PM EST
    not be that much of a joke, actually.

    The weather... (none / 0) (#23)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 11:30:27 AM EST
    that must be part of it.

    But it's pretty nice in Atlanta...and I noticed my misery theory living in sunny FLA.  My special lady's French friends in Guadalajara are also the jovial sort...as are most Europeans I meet in NY.  Must be more to it, though I'm probably just pointlessly over-generalizing.


    Russians have had an incredibly (none / 0) (#48)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 12:54:12 PM EST
    hard time of it for the last, oh, couple thousand years or so-- Tsars, Soviets, then robber baron capitalists and Putin. Geez, why would they be cheerful and optimistic?

    Also, fwiw, Russians simply do not do friendliness to strangers.  Even a polite smile to a stranger passing on a footpath is reacted to with suspicion and fear.  Maybe it's that long history, but it sure is ingrained in the culture.

    But the flip side of that is that once you do even slightly penetrate that distance, you get enveloped in warmth and bonding that feels suffocating sometimes to a Westerner.

    Also, Russians do seem to be baby-mad.  When I was there, we discovered that you could break right through the wall in two seconds by cooing over somebody's baby.


    I know a few (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by Zorba on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 07:03:45 PM EST
    Russians over here, some born there, and also second- and third-generation Russian-Americans.  They're really friendly people on the whole, but they all seem to have a certain amount of pessimism and a dark, fatalistic world view.  They seem to find the cloud in every silver lining.  Maybe it's genetic.   ;-)  

    They would... (none / 0) (#78)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 07:43:58 PM EST
    ...fit right in on TalkLeft!

    Hahahahaha! (none / 0) (#81)
    by Zorba on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 08:06:41 PM EST

    What in their experience in Russia (none / 0) (#83)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 12:40:02 AM EST
    or their families' history, would make them not be pessimistic?

    Everything there that's hopeful has always turned to #%@#.  That they persevere is what blows my mind.


    Russians don't have a monopoly... (none / 0) (#85)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 09:40:50 AM EST
    ...on misery or suffering or tragedy.  Certain not when you consider what the Poles have been through all throughout their history.  

    Did I say they did? (none / 0) (#86)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 03:37:44 PM EST
    I can't find that in anything I wrote, so you'll have to point it out to me.

    don't get me wrong (none / 0) (#66)
    by CST on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 02:51:26 PM EST
    I'm not hating so much as observing.

    I live in the cold, NE, and I love me some Germans.  Who can be perfectly nice to people they know and like.  I think there is something to be said for being mean to strangers :)  How else do you know if someone actually likes you or if they're just always friendly?

    And you're right about the "suffocating" thing.  Affection from strangers can be... uncomfortable to those of us who aren't used to it.  Your smiles and laughter invade my personal space!!!

    I need to learn how to scowl more.  People always stop me to ask for directions.


    Don't do it! (none / 0) (#72)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 03:52:20 PM EST
    You start out wearing a scowl, then the scowl wears you...or something like that:)

    Yeah, I know (none / 0) (#84)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 12:45:55 AM EST
    knowing who you are, so to speak.  I brought it up because maybe other people can get the wrong idea.

    Every culture is different, and some are superficially friendly to strangers but have massive walls keeping them out of any significant contact, and others are like the Russians, who do the opposite.  The Russkis think Americans are superficial and insincere in their outward friendliness.  I can understand that.

    I've traveled pretty extensively in Germany and never felt unusual unfriendliness, but who knows.  Their culture is a good bit more formal, though, even in the countryside, which can seem unfriendly to exuberant, "hail fellow well met" Americans.

    Germans on vacay in other countries are a different matter entirely, though-- often totally obnoxious.  Don't know whether they get that way on vacation or whether only obnoxious Germans take vacations out of the country.


    Weather and Mediterrainen (none / 0) (#55)
    by oculus on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 01:28:02 PM EST
    diet maybe?  Agree re French, Germans, and Russians--as a generality.  Georgians (not the Atlanta one), on the other hand, were amazing cheerful and friendly.  Long leash re Moscow.

    kdog! you came back! (none / 0) (#35)
    by jeffinalabama on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 12:11:19 PM EST
    I'm glad, but also disappointed... Like me, you might just cash in tickets at the other end one day.

    I tell ya Jeff... (none / 0) (#58)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 01:35:00 PM EST
    I was scratching a few rascales while I was there in an uber-long shot attempt to do just that.  Bezt I could do was a 50 peso winner:(

    One of my special lady's friends has an ex-pat Alabaman for a husband...real nice guy, thought of you immediately!


    Did you look into immigration? (none / 0) (#60)
    by oculus on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 01:42:21 PM EST
    This is kind of like "Good Will Hunting" (none / 0) (#63)
    by jeffinalabama on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 02:01:47 PM EST
    and Chuckie's character for me.

    Every day I come by your house and I pick you up. And we go out. We have a few drinks, and a few laughs, and it's great. But you know what the best part of my day is? For about ten seconds, from when I pull up to the curb and when I get to your door, 'cause I think, maybe I'll get up there and I'll knock on the door and you won't be there. No goodbye. No see you later. No nothing. You just left. I don't know much, but I know that.

    I wouldn't be offended, brother. I'm planning to do the same!


    That is a very touching scene... (none / 0) (#67)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 02:51:48 PM EST
    in a great film.

    I figure, f*ck it, while I'm at it, why not just shoot my buddy, take his job and give it to his sworn enemy, hike up gas prices, bomb a village, club a baby seal, hit the hash pipe and join the National Guard? I could be elected president.

    I might have a lil' of Will's afraid to ruin a perfect thing complex going on too...our prolonged abscences prevent me from blowing this romance!


    Nah... (none / 0) (#64)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 02:02:38 PM EST
    making a living is the dilemma.

    Did leave my passport at the hotel the entire time again...this time special lady advised to do so.  I said if she ever gets her sweet behind up here again, different rules apply:)


    Been waiting for you to get back (none / 0) (#47)
    by MO Blue on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 12:53:27 PM EST
    This one is for you kdog:

    Surveys by the Democratic firm Public Policy Polling suggest California voters under 30 years old are more likely to vote this year than their counterparts in other states. People in that age group make up 11% of California voters likely to turn out in November--compared with 8% of the likely electorate or less in Illinois, Connecticut, New Hampshire and Michigan, all of which have competitive statewide elections. In the last midterms, in 2006, voters under 30 were 6.5% of the California electorate, according to data compiled for the non-partisan Field Poll.

    Tom Jensen, polling director for PPP, said the results suggest the marijuana initiative is driving voter interest among those under 30. He said the interest may be boosting Democratic candidates, particularly Sen. Barbara Boxer (D., Calif.), who has built a lead over GOP challenger Carly Fiorina recently.
    Democratic pollster Andrew Myers found in a December 2009 survey in Colorado that 45% of Obama "surge voters"--people voting for the first time in 2008--said they would be more interested in turning out again if marijuana legalization were on the ballot. "If you are 18 to 29, it's far and away the most compelling reason to go out and vote," Mr. Myers said. FDL

    I hope the DNC takes note... (none / 0) (#51)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 01:16:35 PM EST
    but they won't MO:)

    It would certainly get the apolitical cats in my circles engaged and out to vote...an unserved population with little reason to give a sh*t right now.  Would do wonders to quell the growing anti-government sentiment among the youth too...I'd certainly have less reasons to dislike and distrust Big Brother:)


    From the same link: (none / 0) (#56)
    by MO Blue on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 01:29:07 PM EST
    As Chris Good says in the Atlantic, this could pose problems for Barack Obama. Nine former DEA chiefs recently demanded that he oppose Prop 19 if it passes:

    One can...envision a coalition of younger and marginalized voters being disappointed in Obama if Prop. 19 passes and he decides to sue. Call them the Shepard Fairey coalition. In 2008, Obama was cool among this crowd; if he attacks Prop. 19, a lot of that mojo will disappear. Being seen as a buzzkill never helped any politician among young and disaffected voters, much less Obama, who rode their support to victory.

    My favorite customs story (none / 0) (#70)
    by ruffian on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 03:32:17 PM EST
    Chunnel train entry from England to France. The teenage girl in our party was cranky. The French agent said to her, with a big grin - "You can smile now - you are in France!" Cracked us all up and helped her mood considerably.

    And I'll make the transition to despair (none / 0) (#1)
    by CST on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 10:27:27 AM EST
    Why oh why?!?!?!? Trade RANDY MOSS?!?!?!?!?!

    Say it ain't so...

    Why despair? (none / 0) (#9)
    by brodie on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 10:53:38 AM EST
    The very impressive Pats crushed the pretty solid Fins in Miami, 41-14, and did so with Moss not making a single catch.  They showed they're about as good a team as any in the NFL right now, and can thrive even with no Moss in the mix.  

    Better to let him go now lest he become a distraction as the season gets serious.  Moss just needs to be the main attraction and didn't seem willing to adapt to the Pats' spread the wealth blue-collar style, and was never a good choice for the very disciplined and team-oriented Bellichick who has never liked prima donna types with all their demands.  


    About as good as any team... (none / 0) (#14)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 11:09:06 AM EST
    not named The Jets brodie.

    There's a new sheriff in the AFC East!

    Fear not CST, we'll make Moss pay for his whining Monday night, and make the Pats look smart for trading his arse.


    Hey, I'm not overlooking (none / 0) (#26)
    by brodie on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 11:44:51 AM EST
    les Jets.  Right up there with the Pats.  Big Sanchez fan here (no, not that wacko Rick!), and their D is mighty good.  

    If the Steelers had a more stable QB situation, and the Ravens a little more consistent firepower on offense, they'd be up there, too.  



    I dunno (none / 0) (#20)
    by CST on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 11:19:08 AM EST
    Something tells me that even if he doesn't make a catch, he's opening up others on the offense.  I don't think it's reasonable to expect our Special Teams to have a game like that every week.

    In any event, I think we could have done better than a 3rd round pick.  And who is left to catch the long balls?


    I won't know what to think... (none / 0) (#38)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 12:33:23 PM EST
    ...until Simmons tells me.  

    /actually thinks CST is spot-on.  Whether he gets a catch or not is immaterial--the fact is he stretched the defense and kept them honest.  Without a viable deep threat, teams can over-play the short crossing routes and stack the box.  


    Problem is (none / 0) (#46)
    by brodie on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 12:53:04 PM EST
    football is more than just putting players on the field to execute plays.  It's a game of emotions and 11 guys working in harmony and often giving up some personal glory for the betterment of the team.

    Having Moss out there largely in decoy mode probably has its upside, but his growing negative attitude and outspokenness about same was threatening (Bellichick may well have calculated) to undermine team unity and on-field cohesion as it became a distraction for the rest of the team to have to deal with.

    And it was probably going to be a growing problem with Moss -- not many superstar skill position players with his long track record of TD success and prima donna attitude agree to quietly accept playing decoy game after game.  Even frequent decoy Reggie Bush gets the ball a fair amount.

    Bellichick probably made the right decision, and the Pats will likely go right on into the playoffs with a solid chance of making it to the SB.   Moss will be a better fit in the offense-depleted Vikes offense, especially as Favré has shown indications that he's wanted.  A win for both teams, and only a 3d-round pick for the Pats in return, well that sounds like they really wanted to unload him.


    Also... (none / 0) (#59)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 01:36:49 PM EST
    Mr. Moss has been known to dog it when he's playing the decoy or not getting the ball.

    A decoy ceases to be an effective decoy whilst going half speed.


    You're not speaking... (none / 0) (#69)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 03:30:48 PM EST
    ...from personal experience, are you?  :)

    Yeah, Randy Moss is a prototypical Wide Receiver spoiled child--but does the defense really know when he's doing to dog it and when he's not?  Are they just going to leave him uncovered on the chance that he is?  

    I got left uncovered all the time back in the day (not because I was dogging it, but because people underestimated me) and burned a lot of cocky defensive backs.


    In the rec league... (none / 0) (#71)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 03:48:31 PM EST
    when covering the hot dogs, you usually know in the first three steps if they are expecting the ball or if they're running a clear out. Scored many a pick by peeling off my assigned man/zone cuz he was dogging his clear out route.  And gotten burned a few times by a guy running the "trot and go", aka the fake dogging the clear out and then hitting the jets:)

    The NFL game is way too fast for the "trot and go" to work though...that's strictly schoolyard.  


    Like a lot of us tall guys... (none / 0) (#73)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 04:08:59 PM EST
    ...Moss' trot and go is deceptive.  It's those long strides--just ask your boy Revis!  

    Anyway, I'm looking forward to his being on the Vikings roster--good ole Brit Farve (he's like a kid out there!) will be tempted to chuck the ball downfield all the more--resulting in more patented FarveFail.  Not to mention the off-field antics--what will it be this time, Randy?  It's been way too quiet in the Twin Cities of late...


    Too many laws (none / 0) (#5)
    by me only on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 10:45:37 AM EST
    So a sex offender in Memphis goes to register his new address and ends up in jail.  I have little sympathy for sex offenders, but the guy moved in with family.  Because his niece has a baby and lives in the house he is now in violation.

    Great, so when sex offenders get old they can't move in with their children if their children have step children?  

    Perhaps arresting the man was (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by oculus on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 10:54:42 AM EST
    not appropriate.  But he shouldn't be living with young children.

    If the family is cool with it... (none / 0) (#13)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 11:07:29 AM EST
    so should be the state.

    Sometimes I think the true purpose of all these sex offender laws is too drive the offender to off themselves or something, so we don't have to deal.


    kdog, do you have any idea (none / 0) (#42)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 12:44:08 PM EST
    how many children are molested by family members and friends the parents were "cool with" having around their kids?

    I don't know about this specific case, but I'd argue vehemently that the state has an obligation to protect those kids from convicted child molesters after their release, even if the parents are stupid enough to be "cool with it."


    Point taken... (none / 0) (#49)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 01:05:36 PM EST
    and yes I am aware the vast majority of child molestation is committed by relatives...but this seems more like a case where the family is trying to help the guy rehabilitate himself and rejoin society, and the state is making it difficult with it's hysteria-based rules.

    A 15 year old post-pubescent victim is a different animal than child molestation...wouldn't you agree?  One size fits all justice fails us all G.


    Yes, I do agree (none / 0) (#87)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 03:54:01 PM EST
    Neither we nor the justice system makes a clear enough distinction of actual pedophilia, particularly when the "perp" is a teenager or near-teenager him/herself.  15 is a difficult place to decide.  Some 15-year-olds are still physically children, and some are physically close to adult.  I'd want to know the circumstances here if I were making the decision.

    But for sure, no matter how much you want to help out a family member, if they're an actual pedophile and you have children, I'd say it's criminally negligent to welcome that person into your home.


    Ever? (none / 0) (#17)
    by me only on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 11:11:28 AM EST
    Notice the economy is not doing so well.  Let's agree that since the guy, seven years ago had sex with a 15 year old, should forever be left homeless instead of moving in with family.

    Federal judge Lewis Kaplan throws out (none / 0) (#28)
    by jeffinalabama on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 11:49:42 AM EST
    witnesses obtained from coerced statements from overseas prison interrogations:

    "The court has not reached this conclusion lightly," Judge Kaplan said as he read his order from the bench. "It is acutely aware of the perilous nature of the world in which we live. But the Constitution is the rock upon which our nation rests. We must follow it not only when it is convenient, but when fear and danger beckon in a different direction. To do less would diminish us and undermine the foundation upon which we stand."

    More in the NY Times article here.

    Federal trial court judge bars (none / 0) (#29)
    by oculus on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 11:51:16 AM EST
    prosecution witness from testifying because government obtained the witness's name from defendant by means of torture.  NYT

    WE read the same newspaper, oculus... (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by jeffinalabama on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 11:57:39 AM EST
    imagine that!

    But you type way faster! (none / 0) (#37)
    by oculus on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 12:30:33 PM EST
    Washington Post reports (none / 0) (#62)
    by oculus on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 02:00:30 PM EST
    Taliban sets conditions for negotiating with Afghan government.  One condition:  stop calling us a "terrorist" organization.  We are a religious org.  (Seems the Taliban is based in Pakistan.)

    Washington Post