Wednesday Afternoon Open Thread

So far, no snow in Denver or Boulder, which is where I'm headed for the dentist.

Here's an open thread, all topics welcome.

< 11th Cir. Oral Argument in Ben Kuehne Money Laundering Case | How To Regain Trust In Government: By Governing >
  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft

  • Display: Sort:
    It's 75 and a little muggy in NYC (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by andgarden on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 12:22:14 PM EST

    High of 99 is predicted for LA today. (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 12:33:13 PM EST
    Glad I'm not there.

    it's nice in Venice (none / 0) (#120)
    by otherlisa on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 05:05:10 PM EST
    Doesn't feel particularly hot. Not yet anyway.

    Lucky you. It was quite hot (none / 0) (#121)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 05:12:14 PM EST
    and humid first week of Sept.  On Sept. 14, the day we left for CA, it was cooler but apparently torrential rains later in the day when my friends arrived.

    I accomplished one of my long-held goals this trip.  Take the vaparetto from St. Zachias to San Giorgino.  Take your camera and go up in the campanile for a fabulous view of Venice.  


    Oops. I bet you meant Venice CA! (none / 0) (#122)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 05:13:06 PM EST
    Heh! Yep! (none / 0) (#124)
    by otherlisa on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 05:33:24 PM EST
    Can't speak for Italy. But it's nice here.

    Please don't rain, please don't rain... (none / 0) (#21)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 01:04:18 PM EST
    Post Office softball league playoffs begin tonight and the team is on fire...7 straight wins!

    You're playing with... (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 01:12:13 PM EST
    ...those evil, good for nothing bureaucrats?



    Yeah... (none / 0) (#40)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 01:27:27 PM EST
    for the sleet, snow, driving rain crew they are awfully quick to call a softball game sometimes, we better be on tonight!:)

    My brother can tell you stories about what a beuracratic train wreck the post office is...three forms and a grievance hearing to take a bathroom break.  And don't get him started on the multi-million dollar efficiency experts they hire to draft reports than no one reads!  


    Oh, I've heard the stories. (none / 0) (#55)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 01:44:34 PM EST
    My best friend is a LC.  We call him "Cliffy" after Cliff Claven.  

    But hey, at least he hasn't snapped--yet.


    dude (none / 0) (#31)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 01:14:58 PM EST
    you work for the post office?
    this is not you is it?

    Man admits lifting 3012 Netflix DVDs from Massachusetts mail facility


    Nah... (none / 0) (#41)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 01:28:37 PM EST
    my brother is a letter carrier, I'm a ringer.

    Boarding my dogs for the first time. (5.00 / 3) (#4)
    by ChiTownDenny on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 12:35:26 PM EST
    I'm leaving shortly for Cairo (Athens, a couple days, Cairo the main destination).  My dog walker will  come 3 times daily for 45 minutes each visit.  I don't want my dogs left alone for 22.5 hours a day.  I have talked to multiple people about house sitting.  I have always had someone lined up for my travels.   I am now faced with putting my babies in a boarding facility.  It's $1000.00 for 10 days.  I freaked about  boarding my dogs but have come to the realization that this is probably the best solution.  The next solution, find a new dog walker who will house sit or board (boarding with the walker is a famailiar environment).  I can't tell you the angst I've experienced about having my dogs taken care of while I travel.  First time in 6 years.  Well, I will have access to webcams while I'm overseas.  

    Aw! (5.00 / 2) (#7)
    by Fabian on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 12:41:41 PM EST
    I hope they'll be okay.  My dog was only good boarding for a couple days.  Any longer than that and he'd go off of his feed.  He really felt that his place was at home and did not like to be absent.  Fortunately, we never boarded him longer than a few days at a time.

    If he hadn't been so big and our cars so small, we may have been able to take him with us.  My mother called him "a perfect guest" when I holed up at her place during an extended power outage.  


    I'm gonna cry.... (5.00 / 2) (#17)
    by ChiTownDenny on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 12:50:44 PM EST
    I'm certain this is the best solution.  God, I hope so.  My dogs are spoiled and loved.  They're also trained and behaved, which means when they feel like being so.  :)

    sympathies (5.00 / 3) (#23)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 01:06:40 PM EST
    I have not yet had to deal with that for my two problem children.
    but in almost all cases I will take them with me.

    My dog (5.00 / 2) (#25)
    by Fabian on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 01:07:45 PM EST
    could be distracted by the prospect of romping with other dogs for a couple days.  He was a very social animal.  I remember laughing when the owner of the doggie day care who told me about one dog owner complained about my dog picking on his dog.

    They were play pals - a leggy, vaguely wolfish dog(mine) and a stocky lab.  They both had dog slobber all over them by the end of the day.  My dog's crime was putting his jaws on the lab's neck, which was a feat in itself considering the size of that neck!  Never a scratch on either dog, which the day care owner pointed out.  I'm still amazed how little some dog owners know about normal canine behavior.


    yeah (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 01:09:57 PM EST
    when mine have been outside for a while I dont touch either of them until they dry.



    with a new dog (5.00 / 4) (#29)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 01:12:56 PM EST
    its been so cool watching them work out all the "details".

    Daisy (the new one) is very possessive.  she loves to have ALL the chew toys.  and sometimes drives herself nuts keeping them collected into a protectable place.  Ghost having been there for a while knows there is always another somewhere doesnt take it seriously at all and seems to take real delight in tormenting her with raids.


    I can picture that. (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by ChiTownDenny on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 01:17:18 PM EST
    Love it!

    speaking of funny dogs (none / 0) (#39)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 01:27:06 PM EST
    great ad

    several other great dog ads over to the right.


    My adult offspring just house sit/dog sat. (5.00 / 2) (#9)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 12:44:26 PM EST
    She enjoyed it and does a good job.  She is unemployed but in Southern CA.  

    Does the kid know... (none / 0) (#19)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 01:02:52 PM EST
    you can make 100 bucks a day doing that?

    I can't believe it costs a hundo a day to board a dog...I board myself cheaper than that:)


    She blew it. Accepted $50/day. (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 01:34:32 PM EST
    ChiTownDenny...... (5.00 / 1) (#125)
    by vml68 on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 05:35:13 PM EST
    Round trip ticket from SoCal to Chicago - $300
    Oculus' offspring housesitting your dogs at $50/day - $500
    Your babies getting to stay home and your peace of mind - Priceless!!

    AND you get to save $200! Or it could be my consultant's fee... :-)


    Oh, but the $50/day rate was for (none / 0) (#135)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 06:22:37 PM EST
    one small dog!

    Mama Oculus is starting to play (none / 0) (#139)
    by vml68 on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 06:35:53 PM EST

    I do love Chicago. Oh wait, . . . (5.00 / 1) (#140)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 06:54:36 PM EST
    You slavedriver you!...:) (none / 0) (#51)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 01:42:07 PM EST
    I hope she isn't reading this thread, somebody might be hitting you up for a raise:)

    Ha. Not my dog/house. And I (none / 0) (#59)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 01:47:32 PM EST
    do hope she isn't reading TL!

    My hotel in Cairo is less than $100/day. (none / 0) (#24)
    by ChiTownDenny on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 01:06:56 PM EST
    High-end boarding.  Daddy's guilt.

    Sh*t.... (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 01:11:58 PM EST
    If I lived in Chitown I'd have put in a lower bid...they got bearskin rug cages and filet mignon at that joint or what? lol

    But if it soothes the guilt its money well spent...enjoy the trip bro, sounds awesome!


    Have a wonderful trip. Did you (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 01:32:23 PM EST
    add on Petra?  Hope so.

    Petra sounds wonderful. (none / 0) (#54)
    by ChiTownDenny on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 01:44:23 PM EST
    I remember your recommendation.  As a result, we actually thought long and hard between Athens and Petra.  Thanks for the input.

    You will enjoy Athens also. There is (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 01:50:43 PM EST
    small house museum housing "collections."  We didn't go but my Greek friend loves that museum.  Starts with a "B" I think. We very much enjoyed the one-day "islands" boat trip from Athens.  Aegina, Delos, and, I think, Poros.

    Yup! (none / 0) (#71)
    by ChiTownDenny on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 02:03:20 PM EST
    Doing that cruise.

    We did all antiquities. Until the (none / 0) (#73)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 02:06:00 PM EST
    last day when we did the "cruise."  Found out my traveling companion's parents were giving us good advice when they sd.:  need more islands.

    Kdog, don't know that you go in for snorting, (none / 0) (#163)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Thu Sep 24, 2009 at 03:31:30 AM EST
    but here is some VERY GOOD NEWS, imo. Stem cell snorting holds promise for treating brain disorders:
    If you needed stem cells implanted in your brain to treat a disorder, you might be able to just snort them instead. New details from a University of Minnesota researcher's initial tests show the stem cells actually make it to the brain when snorted rather than implanted through surgery. Talk about a medical improvement.

    I don' like surgery or smoking, now snorting - sign me up ASAP.


    Never took to anything... (none / 0) (#166)
    by kdog on Thu Sep 24, 2009 at 07:55:12 AM EST
    that goes up the beak...but good to know if I ever do run out of brain cells and need to replensish!...:)

    You have to do it (5.00 / 3) (#36)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 01:20:46 PM EST
    speaking as someone who hasn't gone on a non-doggie vacation in 14 years, I sympathize with your stress.  But don't be like me and put your entire life on hold for the dogs.

    You'd take them if you could, but you can't, so just go.  Enjoy.  Know that they're staying at a pampered place.  Pamper them some more when you come home.

    Don't feel guilty.  They'll survive.  Some dogs live their whole lives in much worse straits that you're providing for them at the boarding facility(e.g. backyard dogs, etc).



    Thank you, Teresa. (none / 0) (#38)
    by ChiTownDenny on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 01:26:33 PM EST
    MAke sure the boarding facility (5.00 / 2) (#37)
    by scribe on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 01:25:58 PM EST
    will exercise them and, hopefull,y at a legel similar to eh amount you spend onthem.

    I have a setter who gets beteeen 3 and 6 miles a day of walks with me.  When I went away for 10 days this summer, shs got some walks but not nearly that much at the boarding place (A really good place, too), and was a bundle of energy for days afterward, until I got her good and tired out and under control, too.


    If you have a chance before you go (5.00 / 4) (#77)
    by ruffian on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 02:14:56 PM EST
    Leave them there for an afternoon or a night and see how they do. That way you will feel better about leaving them, and won't worry.

    I've never wanted to leave them alone in the house, even with people coming to visit them. And Ruffian did terrible staying with friends - he expected me to come back every minute and was just miserable - wouldn't eat or let himself be comforted at all. I've been lucky enough to have found great boarding facilities in both Colorado and here in FL. The dogs get to play all day with the other dogs, and are not kept in pens. Ruffy was fine in that type of place. The one here in FL even has a little pool. (Photo 9 in the doggie day care 3 gallery is my old Ruffian, the golden with the white face.) I've been paying between $25-31 per day per dog. It is a little more expensive then the penned kennels, but well worth it since I don't worry one bit. I just add it to the vacation budget, or eat cheap if it is a business trip and I'm on per diem.

    Cute boarding story - when I lived in CO I brought Ruffian to the same place - Home Free, up near Golden Gate State Park-  for about 5 years before I got the second dog, Oakley. Ruffy loved it there, no problem. The first time I travelled after having both dogs, about 3 months after I got Oakley, Oakley's former owner wanted to take care of him for that week, so I dropped him off with her in the evening, then took Ruffy to the kennel the next day and went to work, since I was not leaving until the evening. Got a call late morning that Ruffy was miserable at the kennel - now he was not happy there anymore without his buddy Oakley. So I had to go get Oakley and take him to the kennel too, then Ruffy was fine again. So much for that experiment!

    And yes, if there is any doubt, Ruffy ran my house. Oakley and I don't know what to do without him.


    I have kitties (none / 0) (#119)
    by otherlisa on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 05:04:32 PM EST
    Not quite as complicated but still tough. I have a house-sitter who comes and stays here for long trips and a wonderful cat sitter who comes for the short ones. And yeah, I make them email or text me with news!

    What can you do?


    Yes, I know - i had kitties too (none / 0) (#145)
    by ruffian on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 07:37:02 PM EST
    when I got the first dog. I had a nice lady that visited them at the house and wrote me little reports. 'Max is such a sweet boy...' 'Murphy chased the png pong ball'...

    that wasn't cheap either, but I thought they'd be happier at home then in a kennel. Even so they retaliated with hairball puking when I was gone.  Good times!


    this is more than a little (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 02:43:04 PM EST
    Indeed. (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 03:03:46 PM EST
    Very creepy.

    And she also claims that John was the one who first shot her up with coke.  



    yeah (none / 0) (#92)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 03:11:20 PM EST
    and from what I read, before I became to creeped out, it was not a matter of rape.  it was completely consensual.  they even talked about "running away" to someplace where they would not be "looked down on".



    Reminds me of how (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by nycstray on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 03:16:11 PM EST
    someone who's been abducted for a long period of time becomes attached to their abductor. Sounds like her life was kidnapped by her father and drugs.

    I dunno (none / 0) (#95)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 03:19:10 PM EST
    yeah much of the blame goes to the father but she was old enough to know better.
    dont blame the drugs dont blame the druggie father take some responsibility for your own actions.

    she could have walked any time.
    apparently the first instance was on her wedding day?



    Conditioning (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by nycstray on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 03:29:56 PM EST
    can't really ignore conditioning/influence from a very young age. I don't "blame" the drugs in the manner you would like to think I am so you can defend them {grin}, but more the overuse/abuse combined with her young age. By the time she was 18 (if not long before), sounds like she was pretty much a mess.

    I guess (none / 0) (#100)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 03:36:24 PM EST
    but she was also a tv star with resources most kids could only dream of.  and probably people who would have been happy to help and protect her if only for monetary reasons.

    and I meant that SHE should not blame the drugs or the druggie father.

    I have known people with far fewer resources and even worse family life who did fine by taking charge.

    and the other commenter said.  its about the book.
    and thats creepy.


    All of the blame goes to the father. (5.00 / 4) (#102)
    by Anne on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 03:43:32 PM EST
    If you were raised as she was, in a wholly dysfunctional environment that involved lots of drug use, I doubt you would have a very good understanding of the boundaries between parent and child, but he, as the parent, should have known what and where they were.

    It's an abuse of power and an abuse of the relationship.  Period.  That he introduced her to concaine at the age of 11 should tell you all you need to know about his parenting abilities, and who is really to blame.


    actually (none / 0) (#104)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 03:47:05 PM EST
    I am from a pretty dysfunctional place.  not quite like that but I know dysfunctional.

    and sadly I grew up in the late 60s and early 70s and witnessed many children being given many drugs by their parents.  none that I know of ended up having sex with said parent.

    its not ALL the fathers fault.  that is a copout.


    Times have changed... (none / 0) (#106)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 03:54:49 PM EST
    now parents are getting their dope from their kids...more Americans over 50 smoking reefer than ever before.

    I'm familar with the phenomenon...an old girlfriend's parents used to ask me to score for 'em all the time.  I wonder if they ever found their own connect:)


    well (none / 0) (#107)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 04:01:37 PM EST
    to be clear I was talking about very young children.
    preteen age.  which is of course not cool.  but seemed hilarious at the time.  and as far as I know they all turned out just fine and undamaged by the experiences.

    I just have a big problem with this spoiled rich kid who spends lots of money paying a therapist to convince her she is totally blameless in this whole thing so she can write a book and go on Oprah to hawk it.


    Why did she find it necessary to (5.00 / 2) (#132)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 06:09:43 PM EST
    share this information w/the entire world?  Too much info for me.

    She's not alone (5.00 / 1) (#134)
    by nycstray on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 06:15:09 PM EST
    many feel compelled to share TMI!!

    One thing I can say, watching her on Oprah was all I needed. I agree on too much info and I have to wonder how many others feel the same. Books sales may not be all that. The cliff notes were just fine, TYVM.


    and I saw those (none / 0) (#108)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 04:03:23 PM EST
    over 50 numbers.  not a surprise to me at all.
    all my friends smoke and lots are over 50.
    its the whole boomer thing I guess.

    What I read is that she now (5.00 / 3) (#98)
    by Anne on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 03:30:09 PM EST
    understands that what she thought was consensual at the time was really still a terrible abuse of power.

    While I don't know why it would surprise anyone that a parent who would give his 11-year old cocaine and introduce her to other drugs, would have such a distorted view of the parent-child relationship that he would take it in that direction, there's a part of me that simply does not get the point of going on Oprah to tell the whole world - except that Phillips has written a book, and I'm sure this revelation will sell more than a few.

    Sad and depressing on all kinds of levels.


    Maybe she's making it up.... (none / 0) (#118)
    by desertswine on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 05:04:08 PM EST
    to sell her new book...  entertainment and all.

    I doubt it's made up (5.00 / 1) (#130)
    by shoephone on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 06:05:05 PM EST
    John Phillips was a seriously f*cked up human being. As far as the sale of a book about so-called "consensual sex" between father and daughter, that landscape was explored in memoir 18 years ago. Does no one remember Kathryn Harrison's "The Kiss"?

    I remember well the controversy stirred by that book. I was working in the book business back then and you can probably imagine the conversations between book publishers, bookstore owners, and book buyers... Harrison was twenty years old at the time of her "seduction" by her father, so, technically, she was an adult. However, in excorcising that demon of her past, she makes clear there is nothing really consensual about sex between father and daughter.

    Mackenzie Phillips dealt with an enormous amount of crap when she was growing up. And, as far as I'm concerned, her mother should not escape blameless in any of it.


    The night before her wedding, she says (none / 0) (#128)
    by Inspector Gadget on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 05:57:48 PM EST
    wasn't consensual?

    I've recently discovered that someone I knew who had us believing he had been raped by priests is, in reality, a pathological liar. He grew more constant with his lying with the help of therapists, but he lacks enough logic and consistency on subjects to get away with it.

    I won't be reading her book. He's not here to defend himself, and she has sisters who might willingly dispute what she says. Her credibility is questionable with how distorted her memory could be from the years of drug abuse and therapy.


    Wow (none / 0) (#170)
    by sj on Thu Sep 24, 2009 at 10:56:48 AM EST
    pretty judgemental.  If you think "completely consensual" applies to any sort of power relationship then clearly you have lived a sheltered life.  

    "Completely consensual" can never apply to a parent/child relationship of any sort.  Not just a sexual relationship, any kind.  Behavior patterns you don't even know about dominate those relationships.

    I happened on the Oprah interview yesterday. Reminds me of Joan Baez song for Janis Joplin.

    That poor girl...
    Tossed by the tides of misfortune
    Barely here to tell her tale,
    Rolled in on a sea of disaster
    Rolled out on a mainline rail

    After reading (none / 0) (#171)
    by sj on Thu Sep 24, 2009 at 11:49:04 AM EST
    this, I see that you did not lead a sheltered life and it was actually pretty judgemental of me to say so.  

    Nevertheless, this stands out from that comment (emphasis mine)

    and sadly I grew up in the late 60s and early 70s and witnessed many children being given many drugs by their parents.  none that I know of ended up having sex with said parent.

    That's her point, I think.  A secret has power as long as it's a secret.  


    hilarious (5.00 / 2) (#93)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 03:13:32 PM EST
    not to speak ill of the dead or anything:

    To the manner born

    I once heard a recording of a BBC broadcast announcing the birth of Queen Elizabeth II of England's son. The announcer intoned, "Her Majesty has given birth to . . . a prince."

    This struck me as a particularly stark illustration of how one's place in the world can be determined by the accident of birth.
    Which brings me to this charming vignette, courtesy of blog commenter Harry Hopkins:

    "I remember back in the late 1990s, when Ira Katznelson, an eminent political scientist at Columbia, came to deliver a guest lecture. Prof. Katznelson described a lunch he had with Irving Kristol during the first Bush administration.

    "The talk turned to William Kristol, then Dan Quayle's chief of staff, and how he got his start in politics. Irving recalled how he talked to his friend Harvey Mansfield at Harvard, who secured William a place there as both an undergrad and graduate student; how he talked to Pat Moynihan, then Nixon's domestic policy adviser, and got William an internship at the White House; how he talked to friends at the RNC [Republican National Committee] and secured a job for William after he got his Harvard Ph.D.; and how he arranged with still more friends for William to teach at Penn and the Kennedy School of Government.

    "With that, Prof. Katznelson recalled, he then asked Irving what he thought of affirmative action. 'I oppose it,' Irving replied. 'It subverts meritocracy.' "

    heh (none / 0) (#101)
    by andgarden on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 03:37:17 PM EST
    Excellent story (none / 0) (#109)
    by ruffian on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 04:04:19 PM EST
    I'm gonna save that one to use when I need it!

    Once you believe you were (none / 0) (#142)
    by jondee on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 07:19:59 PM EST
    chosen by God, meritocracy and aristocracy become synonomous.

    thisis sort of terrifying (5.00 / 1) (#126)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 05:36:04 PM EST
    Chilling. (none / 0) (#133)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 06:12:59 PM EST
    AP does not state the ethnicity of the census taker.

    Horrible story (none / 0) (#154)
    by andgarden on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 11:05:51 PM EST
    but FWIW, if these folks don't want to complete the survey, they'll just get less representation in Congress. That would not upset me.

    Obama's speech at the UN (none / 0) (#3)
    by jbindc on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 12:35:02 PM EST
    Text of the speech (from The Corner)

    I do like this:

    Those who used to chastise America for acting alone in the world cannot now stand by and wait for America to solve the world's problems alone.  We have sought -- in word and deed -- a new era of engagement with the world.  And now is the time for all of us to take our share of responsibility for a global response to global challenges.

    And this:

    Today, let me put forward four pillars that I believe are fundamental to the future that we want for our children:  non-proliferation and disarmament; the promotion of peace and security; the preservation of our planet; and a global economy that advances opportunity for all people.

    the 2nd paragraph (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by bocajeff on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 12:44:36 PM EST
    sounds like an answer from a Miss America contestant...

    Mean. You have to admit Mr. Favreau (none / 0) (#12)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 12:46:36 PM EST
    has a way w/words.

    Well (none / 0) (#16)
    by jbindc on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 12:50:19 PM EST
    I tend to think when someone has to justify a statement with "It's not about me."  They really DO think it's about them.

    JMO.  :)


    "I'm not prejudiced, but . . . " (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 01:30:28 PM EST
    "Don't take this the wrong way, but..." (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by jbindc on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 01:32:04 PM EST

    Those pillars (none / 0) (#57)
    by Inspector Gadget on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 01:45:53 PM EST
    seem a bit contrary to the escalation of war in Afghanistan, and the economic windfalls of both the stimulus pkg and HCR for big business.

    I'm thinking these really flowery prose paragraphs are not written for, but instead are written by.


    I thought (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by jbindc on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 02:02:36 PM EST
    He was talking about Greek temple pillars <snark>

    You're baaaad. :-) (none / 0) (#156)
    by Cream City on Thu Sep 24, 2009 at 12:11:42 AM EST
    Warm and humid in Ohio (none / 0) (#5)
    by Fabian on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 12:36:47 PM EST
    Truly unusual weather from May on - much cooler in the summer with enough rain to keep everything happy.  The sugar maples usually turn early due to heat and drought stress.  They just aren't tolerant, and will color up early reliably - glowing orange against a green backdrop.  This year?  It didn't happen.  Obviously the sugar maples weren't feeling the least bit stressed.  That's the first time I've seen that happen.  Hoping for a good sugaring season in 2010!

    Probably record crop yields across the state, except places that got too much rain.

    I didn't know the maple syrup industry (none / 0) (#6)
    by andgarden on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 12:38:33 PM EST
    had any presence in Ohio. I had really understood it to be a New England/Canadian phenomenon.

    I can buy Ohio syrup (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by Fabian on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 12:43:44 PM EST
    easily enough.  The largest operations are further north, but they've tapped trees in Ohio since at least the 1800s.

    Interesting (5.00 / 2) (#11)
    by andgarden on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 12:45:39 PM EST
    I eat pancakes so infrequently (I can stuff myself with them and be hungry an hour later) that I insist on using real maple syrup when I eat them.

    I really don't understand why anyone bothers with the fake stuff (which I find cloying and too viscous).


    me too (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by CST on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 12:54:01 PM EST
    although it helps that I was raised on the stuff.  My grandparents had a place up in VT and the neighbors used our trees for sugaring so they gave the offspring (my dad and his brother) a free gallon every year.  A gallon goes a long way.  Now I buy but it's worth it since it helps out friends and I don't use very much.

    Although I do find a tiny bit goes a long way in improving a pasta sauce.  Cuts the sour from the tomato.


    Yup (5.00 / 2) (#20)
    by andgarden on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 01:03:02 PM EST
    There's a reason why commercial sauce makers put sugar in. (Incidentally, Italian tomatoes tend to be naturally much sweeter).

    I think a gallon of maple syrup would go bad before I could use most of it. (I believe that it actually can go bad because the sugar content isn't as high as in other syrups).


    It just gets moldy (none / 0) (#110)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 04:31:44 PM EST
    and you can strain the mold out and it's fine.

    I'm planning to tap some of my own trees next year and try making my own.  Wondering if there's any reason why one couldn't freeze maple syrup, too.


    It's a Midwestern tradition, too (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by Cream City on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 12:47:30 PM EST
    and also for thousands of centuries by the First People here.  Mmmmm, maple sugar candy.:-)

    Oops, make that (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by Cream City on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 12:48:10 PM EST
    thousands of years, since we can only carbon-date signs of human habitation in the Midwest to about 15,000 years ago. :-)

    Makes sense (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by andgarden on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 12:49:23 PM EST
    The climate is similar.

    And so many of the tribes here (5.00 / 2) (#78)
    by Cream City on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 02:17:15 PM EST
    actually came from the East and Canada voluntarily in their early explorations and expansions . . . as well as many who were pushed to the Midwest -- and then some even farther west -- sometimes long before direct contact with Europeans.  It's fascinating to find out from my NA friends, such as the numerous Ojibwe here, how many traditions were carefully carried with them.  And who would forget a tradition like going maple-sugaring, yum?

    We learned on bus tour of my home town (5.00 / 1) (#131)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 06:05:23 PM EST
    Sat. am about Chief Blackhawk leading 1500 of his people back across the Mississippi River from Iowa to IL.  Federal militia called out.  Lincoln and Robert E. Lee.  Blackhawk ended up a captive, paraded before people on the eastern seaboard who had never seen a chief in full regalia.  Poor man.

    I just was rereading (5.00 / 1) (#157)
    by Cream City on Thu Sep 24, 2009 at 12:36:05 AM EST
    an excerpt I did for one of my courses from Black Hawk's "autobiography" (an as-told-to, of course, so that filter must be considered, but that said, it is considered to have been minimal intervention in the man's story), as I consider it a must-read for almost any American history course -- and especially for anyone in/from the Midwest.  It's available online, I think, and widely elsewhere from the era when it was wisely more widely read.

    Sadly, after Black Hawk led his people hither and yon across their hunting grounds on both sides of the river (they were agricultural but only left for annual hunting and maple-sugaring treks -- we don't lose our homes if we go hunting or off to the store for sweets, do we?) and did so for many months.  However, in the end, he did not get to lead his people back to Iowa across the Mississippi to safety from Wisconsin's shores at the Battle of Bad Axe.  Instead, most were massacred by the squatters. (The ones whom we call settlers or "pioneers") and their local militia (yes, including Lincoln -- and among the fed military, not Lee but Jeff Davis, I believe, as well as another future president, Zach Taylor . . . plus the future first governor of Wisconsin, another Southerner -- most of the first squatters on Native lands by treaty were squatters -- who made his fortune by bringing slavery into the North-West Territory, for which he was well-rewarded . . . but I digress to the plight of yet millions of others who died for our Manifest Destiny.:-).  

    Most of the hundreds massacred were women and children among the remainders of the once-great Sac and Mesquakie, chased across the country again and again, deprived of their crops and near starvation, by then simply trying to survive under Black Hawk.  And they were massacred after he tried, repeatedly, to surrender to save them.

    And there is more, much more, to the tragic story.  I recommend it -- and many historians' accounts, some well-done ones in detail also online.  It is important to know How We Really Won the West, breaking promises and treaties again and again.  The year after the massacre, the lands where it occurred went up for sale from the feds -- the lower third of Wisconsin from the Mississippi all the way to Lake Michigan.  That also included lands of the Ho-Chunk, who do not appear now to have been involved but were blamed, too, and so conveniently to take their lands.  To this day, the Ho-Chunk (aka Winnebagos, but they get to use their own name) who well may have been the first First People in Wisconsin, tracing back more than 10,000 years, are denied a reservation but are buying back their lands, acre by acre.

    Btw, another fascinating account of that era -- and also incredibly popular in past but now gaining a resurgence, if in lit courses rather than history courses -- is Wau-Bun, the Early Day in the North-West, by Juliette Magill Kinzie.  She was the wife of the first agent to the Ho-Chunk in Wisconsin, in those years, and at the fort where Black Hawk first was held.  She and her spouse were quite at odds with the feds, so he quit and they returned to his native Chicago, where his father had been one of the first traders.  There still is a Kinzie street there.  As for Ms. Magill Kinzie, she later was a great influence on a granddaughter and namesake --  Juliette Gordon Low, founder of the Girl Scouts of America to give more girls the invigorating influence of growing up in the great outdoors . . . and earning badges in the crafts taught by the First People who knew how to respect the land.


    Excellent. Thank you. (none / 0) (#160)
    by oculus on Thu Sep 24, 2009 at 12:44:29 AM EST
    Youbetcha, as we say (none / 0) (#177)
    by Cream City on Thu Sep 24, 2009 at 07:34:30 PM EST
    in dah Midwest dere.  So when next you return to Ioway, you can bore everyone the way I do to my students. :-)  No, seriously -- the Black Hawk autobio, the tragedy of the battle, etc., really gets them to start opening their eyes to what has been going on in their own backyards. . . .

    CC, I feel like I should be paying you (none / 0) (#127)
    by vml68 on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 05:41:58 PM EST
    tuition for all the mini history lessons!

    Aw, thanks (none / 0) (#159)
    by Cream City on Thu Sep 24, 2009 at 12:38:26 AM EST
    but paying me such a compliment is more than enough, and especially today.  A bad day with a difficult student, whom I fear that I cannot help -- as I cannot allow disruption to other students to continue, students who also really want to learn all this weird stuff I know.:-)

    Update on patio tomatoes, please (none / 0) (#33)
    by MO Blue on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 01:15:55 PM EST
    Tomato report! (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by Fabian on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 01:35:59 PM EST
    All in all, a good year, though I planted late.

    The no name salad tomato produced well, but developed cracked fruit after a heavy rain.  Overall quality - unspectacular.
    Timing - neither late nor early.
    Problems - other than the cracking after one rain, just some minor leaf spot.

    Principe Borghese
    Overall quality - great.  Fruit is resembles a small paste type tomato.  When fully ripe, the flesh is soft and thick, the seed cavities small and the skin is very tender.  I never cooked a single one, preferring to eat them out of hand.  Described as an "Italian drying tomato", PB could be used any way you like, I think it would make an above average processing tomato due to few seeds and little juice.
    No problems with culture, no cracking even though the other tomato suffered.
    P.B. is probably only available as seed.  

    Patio Tomato
    Tardy in ripening and still slow to ripen, especially when compared to the other two.
    Fruit quality is acceptable, a salad sized tomato that is juicy and free from any cracking or cat facing.
    The plant is still compact, sturdy, upright and handsome.  Leaves are wide, deep green and slightly glossy - even late in the season.
    Production per square foot is probably the same or possibly even better than the other two plants.  

    If you aren't picky about your tomatoes (Principe Borghese is my favorite and my brother is righteously PO'd that the plants he bought tagged as Brandywines were not - for the second year.)  and would like a low maintenance tomato, I would definitely recommend the patio tomato.  The slowness is a bit irritating, but it basically is a plant it and forget it type.  No staking, no tying, no support and a very attractive compact plant that could easily be used as a foliage plant in a flower border.  


    Borghese versus Marzano? (5.00 / 1) (#113)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 04:39:46 PM EST
    My favorite paste tomato of the ones I've tried is far and away the San Marzano.  Have you tried those and prefer the Borghese?

    I also did some Amish paste this year, and they are HUGE, so much less work to prepare for sauce or canning, but I wasn't blown away by the flavor.  OTOH, the weather has been so sunless and cool and wet that all the tomatoes have been pretty pallid tasting, so it's not a fair test.  But the SMs seem to have coped better.


    Typical paste tomatoes (none / 0) (#147)
    by Fabian on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 08:00:39 PM EST
    are dry and often "crunchy" - not appealing for eating fresh.  I'm tight on space so growing a processing only tomato is not high on my list.

    I want to grow Reif Red Heart again - an ox heart type tomato.  Huge meaty tomatoes, the kind that beg you to slice them thick and top them with your favorite steak sauce, er, salad dressing.


    Do you start your tomato plants (none / 0) (#150)
    by vml68 on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 08:31:05 PM EST
    from seed or do you buy seedlings from a nursery? Except for the patio tomatoes, I don't remember seeing the other varieties you have mentioned.
    I used to buy all my plants from Oakland nursery and occasionally from Strader's.

    I do seed only. (none / 0) (#172)
    by Fabian on Thu Sep 24, 2009 at 11:50:21 AM EST
    Johnny's Selected Seeds is an excellent place to start.  They have good selection and descriptions and their cultural instructions are must reads!

    Alas, Johnny's does not carry Principe Borghese, but they do carry Reif Red Heart.  Try Territorial Seeds for P.B.


    I've never grown or even had (none / 0) (#158)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu Sep 24, 2009 at 12:37:46 AM EST
    a "dry and crunchy" paste tomato, so I'm really not sure what that's about.  The standard Romas are essentially almost tasteless, as far as I'm concerned, so I've never bothered to grow them myself.

    But the only difference there should be between a paste tomato and a "slicer" is the smaller size and relative dearth of seeds, which makes processing for canning or sauce a lot less tedious.  Paste tomatoes also need to be just a bit less sweet, as I discovered when I made some chili from some glorious home-canned Brandywines last year and it was unnervingly and inappropriately sweet.


    Definitely want a low maintenance tomato (none / 0) (#56)
    by MO Blue on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 01:45:30 PM EST
    Body won't tolerate things like digging and a lot of bending and stooping. Also, need something that I can easily protect from the critters that come into my yard from the field behind my house.

    I am rather picky about the taste of the tomatoes that I eat. Won't buy or eat tomatoes other than the home grown variety. Which is why I was so interested in the outcome of your patio tomatoes. Guess the best thing to do is to try one out nest year.

    As always, thanks for the info.


    I'd recommend (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by Fabian on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 01:52:27 PM EST
    Principe Borghese if you grow a lankier tomato.  A really flawless tomato - after I tossed the stem, I would eat the entire thing.  

    Patio tomatoes are very tidy, very compact and would be good for container growing.  Zero critter problems for me, although the urban deer were eating my mother's tomatoes before she built a cage out of PVC pipe and netting.


    There really isn't (none / 0) (#111)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 04:37:03 PM EST
    much maintenance in growing any kind of tomatoes.  You do need to stake and tie, or cage, the normal size ones, but that's pretty much it.  I plant through plastic landscaper cloth, which eliminates the weed problem altogether.

    As for critters, I don't know about deer since I don't have a problem with them, but the only critter issue I've ever had with tomatoes is the occasional experimental peck by a starling or a bite out of a particularly low-hanging fruit by most likely a squirrel.


    You don't get those fat green long (none / 0) (#114)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 04:39:57 PM EST
    wormy thingees?

    {shudder} (none / 0) (#117)
    by nycstray on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 04:59:08 PM EST
    the worms my nightmares were made from!

    Hey Nycstray, I've been meaning to ask you (none / 0) (#123)
    by vml68 on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 05:14:16 PM EST
    which farm you get your free-range chickens from. I have been trying to find a place locally but have not had much luck.

    I get them (none / 0) (#129)
    by nycstray on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 06:04:05 PM EST

    we have one more PU this season in Brooklyn, but you can email and see if you can arrange something as it looks like they have different dates at the farm. They aren't cheap, but I usually get a dinner, lunch, a pot of stock and at least one other dinner (like enchiladas) with one. I roast one whole and just proceed from there :) The last one I roasted, I did one dinner and 4 lunches because I had my back against a deadline, so roasted chicken salads were a nice quick lunch :) I give them a huge thumbs up as far as taste and juiciness (tons of juice!! great for leftovers and tasty stock). They are usually slaughtered the night before or sometimes the same morning. They freeze well also. Haven't noticed any loss of quality (taste/tenderness/texture/juice). Nice folks to deal with too :) If they are too far etc, they may know a closer source. I also had trouble finding poultry when I first started looking a couple years ago. These farmers just happened to branch out from the farm I get my produce from. If you're interested in pork or turkeys, the cook shop by me (owners are part of our CSA) is doing a pork CSA through their store and are also taking turkey orders (Awesome also does turkeys and lamb). They are opening a cooking school and the new space will also have a meat section and butchers. Local pastured only :)

    Which reminds me, I need to order pet meats!! {grin}


    Thank-you! (none / 0) (#138)
    by vml68 on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 06:32:39 PM EST
    I just made some carnitas tacos for dinner with the pork I got from 8 o clock farm. Mmmm,tasty!

    I am waiting on some beef and lamb heart for the pup. Kassandra e-mailed me saying she had some in stock just as I was leaving for Maine so I could not place an order then. Am hoping she still has some left.

    Wrote this when I got back from my trip, not sure if you caught it... :-)


    No prob!! :) (none / 0) (#144)
    by nycstray on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 07:37:01 PM EST
    I've been doing a TexMex seared pork from 8 o'clock this week to go with my southwest slaw and broccoli. I also like their ground pork for sausage, dumplings and stuffed cabbage etc. I'll be doing the dumplings and stuffed cabbage tomorrow. Have a boatload of cabbage which I'll also use for some of the Asian dumpling/roll wrap.

    Your Maine trip sounds fantastic! I am hoping the Dot will enjoy her new enviro that much. I think she will, as I've seen how she transforms in certain situations. Heck, just with the disappearance of humidity lately, my Dot who I thought was slowing down from age, is bouncing off the walls, lol!~ I can't wait to see her in the mountains :)

    Have I told you about HareToday? This is where I get my pet meats in case you can't get them from 8 O'clock. Again, easy to deal with and very reliable :) Also, if you buy chickens from Awesome, you can ask about feet and necks. I give the Dot feet for treats :) The Feline Five also enjoy the feet and necks ;)


    You are a cooking fiend! (none / 0) (#149)
    by vml68 on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 08:25:42 PM EST
    Everything you cook sounds delicious. I too have some ground pork from 8o'clock that I will be using to make sausage.
    You did mention HareToday previously, I just have not ordered from them as yet. Whole Foods had organic chickens on sale for $1.99/lb last week, so I bought 5 and cut it and froze it. Between that and the lamb and beef parts that I got from 8 o'clock last time, Oliver is set for the next three months. I am now planning for the months after!
    I spent this past friday wandering around Brooklyn. When I got home and mapped the streets I had walked down, I had walked about ten miles and not realised it! The next time, I will check out the store you mentioned earlier.

    Nope, no big green (none / 0) (#161)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu Sep 24, 2009 at 12:46:12 AM EST
    wormy things (otherwise known as tomato hornworms).  I used to get one or two when I lived back in the Boston suburbs, but they're really no big deal.  They huge and obvious and easy to pick off and dispose of.

    Otherwise, tomato plants are generally pretty bug-free.  Even the Japanese beetles don't like them much.

    The problem with tomatoes is the many, many fungal and bacterial diseases they're prone to, especially in cool wet weather.  Mine were overcome first by early blight, then something called Septoria leaf spot, and finally at the very end, the Late Blight came in, though the fruit was mostly done at that point anyway.

    Because they're so vulnerable to these diseases, growing tomatoes is always a bit of a crapshoot, no matter what variety you plant, especially if you don't have room to put in more than a couple.  I way overplant because I have the room to do that, so the reduced yield in years like this still leaves me with a good harvest.

    Even the non-organic anti-fungals aren't all that helpful, btw, so disease is just a fact of life one has to live with some years.


    I found tomato hornworms quite (none / 0) (#167)
    by vml68 on Thu Sep 24, 2009 at 08:00:15 AM EST
    beautiful to look at....not so much when they were on my plants.

    They are beautiful (none / 0) (#173)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu Sep 24, 2009 at 11:57:27 AM EST
    They're not too hairy and not at all slimy, things that provoke a visceral reaction of disgust in most of us, very much including me!

    What's really awesome in a horrible sort of way is when you see one that's bristling with parastic wasp  larvae that are literally eating it alive from the inside out.  Yikes!


    weird wet and cool weather here (none / 0) (#35)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 01:20:26 PM EST
    which may explain this plague:

    Bothersome soybean aphids here to stay for now

    unimaginable numbers of these little &*%$#s.
    and this might be why:

    Plus, when born, the aphid actually is pregnant.

    Yes, pregnant. Making more aphids is something they're quite good at doing.

    Have you heard of/seen Mormon flies? (none / 0) (#53)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 01:43:46 PM EST
    Some of the written reminiscences at my hs class reunion in SE Iowa specifically mentioned Morman flies.  I remember June bugs. And, of course, mosquitos.

    May flies? (none / 0) (#58)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 01:46:23 PM EST
    I remember when those things would hatch and die on the bridges making them as slick as ice.

    mayflies (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 01:54:45 PM EST
    when I worked on riverboats this was my favorite time of the year.  they also come in unbelievable numbers on the river.

    they look like dark storm clouds from a distance.  in the season we would have to hose them off the decks in the morning where they died and fell swarming around the lights.

    and pulling into one of those huge locks was an alien experience.  they would swarm and light on the lights and each other until the weight would pull off giant clumps giving them a very liquid look.

    love mayflies.  mostly because they are harmless.  at least as flies.  they do not even have mouth parts.  their only duty is to swarm one night and mate and die.


    Mayflies (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by Upstart Crow on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 02:37:02 PM EST
    Many an ode to mayflies (none / 0) (#89)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 03:02:45 PM EST
    have been uttered by fly fisherman over the years.

    soybean aphids (none / 0) (#65)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 01:56:20 PM EST
    not so much.  they just look like skeeters and are a perfect size to get in your eyes and ears.

    not a good time for bike and motorcycle riding around here.


    An Ode to Mayflies. (none / 0) (#66)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 01:57:03 PM EST
    Have you published your latter-day Mark Twain experiences?

    not yet (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 02:01:08 PM EST
    some pretty great experiences though.

    it was really hard work but some of the best times of my life.


    swarmy weather (5.00 / 2) (#74)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 02:08:16 PM EST
    Swarmy Weather: The animated image on the left comes from the US National Weather Service, but it's not showing weather per se. The mass that emerges, grows and drifts along the Mississippi River is actually a swarm of mayflies:

        A large mayfly hatch occurred along the Mississippi River Friday evening, June 30th. The hatch began just after sundown, around 9 PM, and continued through the early morning hours. [...] Some roads across the Mississippi River in and around La Crosse were covered with bugs, piling into "drifts" on bridges over the Mississippi River and its tributaries. [...] Notice the rapid increase in radar echoes along the Mississippi River channel...occurring simultaneously the entire length of the channel. The ambient wind flow was from the south on Friday evening, with the entire swarm of mayflies drifting north with time. The radar loop starts just before 9 PM CDT and ends around 1030 PM CDT.


    Could envision this as a projection (none / 0) (#79)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 02:18:37 PM EST
    coupled with modern dance or commissioned piece of music.

    definitely (none / 0) (#83)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 02:35:27 PM EST
    Phillip Glass maybe.
    if you google mayflies for pics and videos you can find some great stuff.

    like this


    Fascinating. Thanks. (none / 0) (#88)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 02:59:22 PM EST
    But, please, not Phillip Glass!

    all that fluttering (none / 0) (#90)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 03:02:53 PM EST
    it just seemed perfect

    My classmates sd. Mormon flies. (none / 0) (#60)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 01:48:47 PM EST
    But, like me, they may be confused!  May flies I remember.  On the windshield.  On the sidewalks.  Everywhere.

    Same thing, apparently. (none / 0) (#64)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 01:55:46 PM EST

    PS  My classmates aren't crazy about the new Mormon temple in Nauvoo either.  It is gigantico.


    never heard them called (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 01:58:32 PM EST
    Morman flies.  trying to think of a connection.

    swarming? no mouths? driven by overwhelming desire to reproduce?

    I give up.


    Probably why.... (none / 0) (#68)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 01:59:23 PM EST
    ...Mittens did so poorly in the caucus?  

    What did you determine was the concensus on Sen. Grassley?  

    And most important of all, when can I expect my shipment of AE dairy products?!


    I didn't actually venture any (none / 0) (#72)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 02:03:37 PM EST
    potentially troublesome topics.  And I didn't hear anyone discussing politics.  I asked the inn keeper if she participates in the caucuses.  She sd. she tried but couldn't because she is registered "Independent."  We did have a lengthy prayer before the dinner @ the Golf Club.  Kind of surprised me until I realized I was back in the midwest.  Also, we had Sterzing potato chips at the Friday night "mixer."  Good as I remembered.  Sat. afternoon lunch at a restaurant: when the Iowa game came on, all the TVs went up to full volume.  Natch.

    The Hawks... (none / 0) (#103)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 03:44:47 PM EST
    ...do run a close second to the church as far as organized religion.  

    What did you end-up wearing to the big dinner at the Country Club?  


    Ha. Such a variety of styles of dress. (none / 0) (#105)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 03:53:11 PM EST
    Some sequins.  A very bright acqua blue pantsuit.  One guy with a red long sleeved shirt and suspenders.  I wore a long wine-colored silk skirt, a kind of girly black silk blouse, great jewelry, and my favoriet Saworski crystal sandals.  And not a soul cared!

    only one per houshold (none / 0) (#22)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 01:04:25 PM EST
    L.A. council limits roosters to one per household

    the mind boggles with the possible jokes here

    I'm shocked that they even (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by Fabian on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 01:13:38 PM EST
    allow one!

    On a diary series about urban poultry raising at dkos, the diarist pointed out that having a rooster is not necessary for either egg or meat production and that you and your neighbors might be happier if you kept only hens.  Apparently the romance of having a cockerel crowing repeatedly before dawn wears off quickly.


    it does indeed (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 01:15:42 PM EST
    my sister has one that I have threatened the life of several times.

    They don't just crow once to call up the sun (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by scribe on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 01:41:11 PM EST
    Rather, they start crowing when the sun starts coming up, and keep crowing all ... day ... long.

    That said, one rooster around the area is useful, to keep the hens in line.  That, and a rooster will usually stand up to any predator (cat, skunk, raccoon, possum, fisher, weasel) that decides it wants to try to make a meal of the hens.  A few years back a friend had a couple dozen hens and one bantam rooster.  One winter night, a fisher got into the henhouse.  While a number of the hens and the rooster bought it, the fisher paid dearly, too.


    A rooster also (none / 0) (#115)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 04:42:49 PM EST
    generally keeps the hens in line.  They're less likely to gang up on and persecute the lower-status hens.

    er... (none / 0) (#169)
    by sj on Thu Sep 24, 2009 at 10:32:26 AM EST
    what's a fisher?

    A big weasel, also known as a marten. (none / 0) (#174)
    by scribe on Thu Sep 24, 2009 at 12:38:37 PM EST
    They are weasels about the size of a house cat.  They will attack and kill pretty much anything in their size range, even porcupines.  Porcupines they kill by slashing the animal's face open with their claws, waiting for it to bleed to death, and then eating it from the belly out.

    Nasty, bada*s predators.


    Actually, bigger than most cats (none / 0) (#175)
    by scribe on Thu Sep 24, 2009 at 01:00:49 PM EST
    Fishers are a large weasel, much bigger than a mink, bigger than a marten (about 3 pounds) and smaller than a wolverine.  They come in at 4-15 pounds and 26-49 inches long, or approximately the size of a generic red fox (or small dog).  I suppose the closest other animal one could compare them to would be a Eurasian sable (though that comes in at about 2 pounds and so is much smaller).

    The results of a fur auction (this lists auction sales from trapper or trapper's local middleman to fur dealer) from this past spring show that individual average fisher pelts were selling around $40 or so (Depending, as always, on condition).  This was, as noted in the linked .pdf. about 40-50% down from the prior year's prices.  By way of comparison, at the same sale average wild muskrat pelts sold for $3-$4 and average wild mink pelts for about $12.


    Somebody is banking... (none / 0) (#42)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 01:30:16 PM EST
    on Sarah Palin getting back into an elected office, the winner of the "Dinner with Palin" sweepstakes is a welfare queen, err defense contractor.

    could also (none / 0) (#46)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 01:32:23 PM EST
    work as a punishment.  like for speeding.

    personally I would slow down.


    I would... (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 01:37:12 PM EST
    ...quit eating.

    The banksters she went ot speak to in (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by scribe on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 01:43:04 PM EST
    2 did (none / 0) (#85)
    by Upstart Crow on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 02:39:25 PM EST
    Read the text. (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by ChiTownDenny on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 02:52:30 PM EST
    Nothing brilliant about Palin, or your link.

    I disagree... (none / 0) (#75)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 02:08:30 PM EST
    I'd go if it was a free invite...see if her libertarian streak includes a sensible drug policy that respects individual liberty, and if not why not?

    I believe it once did (none / 0) (#76)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 02:14:45 PM EST
    before she found out which side of the bread is buttered.  so to speak.  no longer I would bet.

    Probably right... (none / 0) (#82)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 02:24:24 PM EST
    all her poetic waxing on freedom and liberty musta confused me:)

    Books on Healthcare (none / 0) (#80)
    by Socraticsilence on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 02:20:36 PM EST
    I have to choose a book to analyze on Healthcare reform for my Healthcare Policy Class so far I'm considering:

    "Overtreated" by Shannon Brownlee


    "Wealthy, Healthy, and Fair" by James Morone (or if suggested one of his earlier books on the subject)

    any recommedations or suggestions would be most welcome.

    See this LAT Op Ed and author's (none / 0) (#136)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 06:25:13 PM EST
    bio as he has writeen books on health care.  Disclaimer:  I haven't read anything except this op ed.

    Also, one of Obama's health care policy advisors during the campaign has written extensively on health care reform.  He is no longer advising Obama.  Can't remember his name.  Probably read it in LAT or NYT.


    LAT op ed link: (none / 0) (#137)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 06:26:10 PM EST
    Finally got a callback... (none / 0) (#81)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 02:21:04 PM EST
    from my sister for her take on the mandatory vaccination for nurses thang we we're discussing yesterday, since she is an RN in NY.  She is only working per diem right now for a state hospital, she has not been approached about getting the vaccine, and if she does she said she will refuse it due to it not being adequately tested on humans, all in her opinion.  

    She also said its probably the right thing to do for certain nurses working in certain stations with high risk patients...but a nurse with objections should be respected and transferred to another station.  And to vaccinate every nurse is totally unneccesary.

    For what its worth, from someone in the field...

    The SEIU doesn't like it either... (none / 0) (#151)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 09:32:14 PM EST
    A union leader said Tuesday that University of Iowa Hospitals has backed down on required flu shots for staff members, but a university spokesman denied it.

    The hospital and its clinics announced a few weeks ago that it would require patient-care workers to be vaccinated against regular, seasonal flu. Hospital leaders also said the staff probably would be required to receive vaccinations against the new H1N1 flu when those shots become available later this fall.

    The plan drew fire from the Service Employees International Union, which represents U of I nurses and other staff members. Union leaders said they support flu vaccinations, but don't think the shots should be mandatory. SEIU asked a judge to block the mandatory vaccination plan, which the union said violated its contract with the hospital.



    That is useful; thanks. (none / 0) (#162)
    by Cream City on Thu Sep 24, 2009 at 12:47:59 AM EST
    I would agree with the option to transfer out those who do not get the flu shot, as I don't want them anywhere near me.  Same option as for those pharmacists who want the "conscience clause" to allow them to overrule doctor's orders.  For now, if in one-person pharm shops, they are to transfer to other stores where more than one pharmacist is on duty, so doctor's orders will be followed, and patients will be served . . . rather than result in the tragic cases we have seen of women forced to abort for health reasons after being denied birth control.  

    Then again, if pharmacists don't want to follow doctor's orders, I wonder why they went into the field.  And I'd have to wonder the same about others in health care in hospitals and other places that will be handling contagious flu cases.  They ought to change to other workplaces, too; there is no shortage of work for nurses.

    And do they get to opt out of other vaccinations, too?  I'd like to know that before they come near me!  Fortunately, I do have all the usual shots -- because I was required to get them to teach.  It never occurred to me to refuse to protect the children I taught then . . . although the shots were just as much to protect me from them. :-)  


    There is a shortage... (none / 0) (#165)
    by kdog on Thu Sep 24, 2009 at 07:46:47 AM EST
    of nurses in some areas, do we really wanna drive them out of hospitals with scary mandatory vaccination requirements?

    My sister also said the regular flu shot was always optional before, never mandatory. She herself has never gotten one before.


    I would expect (none / 0) (#176)
    by Cream City on Thu Sep 24, 2009 at 01:08:41 PM EST
    that this would be cause for the transfer of very few -- and you do need to read the info from the nurse to see that it looks like transfers to other departments, not transferring out of hospitals all together.

    And again, re mandatory shots, some have been mandatory before, even if not flu shots.  And the medicos I read on this keep telling us that it is not like any flu before.  So the past does not necessarily apply re flu; the past may apply re other vaccines.

    But that takes us back to the statement of the nursing group that says their concern is not about the safety of the vaccine at all, so to keep stating that it is the association's concern just makes this too circular.


    Come on People (none / 0) (#96)
    by Socraticsilence on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 03:22:01 PM EST
    no recommendations on Healthcare books at all?

    Sorry . . . (none / 0) (#99)
    by nycstray on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 03:31:36 PM EST
    the only ones I've read have been on natural care and feeding of felines and canines  ;)

    health care book (none / 0) (#146)
    by BBQinDenver on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 07:40:59 PM EST
    TR Reid "The Healing of America -- A Global Quest for Better, Cheaper, and Fairer Health Care". google T.R.Reid, endless results with summaries and interviews.

    Apparently... (none / 0) (#112)
    by desertswine on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 04:39:02 PM EST
    not all businesses are in the dumps.

    Ammo Companies Can't Keep Up With Demand
    "I Call It the Obama Effect," Says Man Stockpiling 1,000 Rounds For Each Of His 25 Guns

    Happiness is a warm gun.. (none / 0) (#141)
    by jondee on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 07:00:41 PM EST
    I never got the gun fetish and never will get it. Seems to stem from some admixture of Freudian fixation fused with an unhealthy amount of rw "paranoid style" both of which seemed to get stirred up to an unhealthy degree during times of uncertainty and instability.

    Then you've got the Glenn Beck's of the world adding fuel to the fire by continually fulminating about how this swarthy socialist furner is comin' ta take yer guns away while working to overturn everything good we've ever known in this country.

    I wish I didnt, but I keep flashing on those Wanted For Treason posters the teabaggers of 1963 put up all over Dallas before Kennedy cam there.


    SUO (none / 0) (#116)
    by Jlvngstn on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 04:52:20 PM EST
    This is our first profitable month of 09.  I have a few friends in the same industry and this is also their first profitable month (three of my friends in same industry are going bankrupt).  I don't know if it is a trend or not but it is much needed as I have burned through an enormous amount of cash this year keeping staff employed.  

    Just wondering if the trend is crossing other lines of business and what your outlook is for the rest of the year.

    I think I am ducky this and next month but have nothing booked for November or December thus far.  We usually only go out 45 days so it is a bit misleading, but historically speaking clients have told me what their anticipated spend will be in the last two months.  Thus far, they are all saying that they are not looking beyond month to month.....

    If i lose in November and December, I am going to have to cut staff though and cannot stand the thought of having that conversation...

    Hope all is well.

    How (none / 0) (#143)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 07:35:54 PM EST
    do construction workers and landscapers hold their potty all day?  We've had landscapers here today and they haven't once used our bathroom. We've been out working with them, so I know they haven't done the coke bottle thing.  It's been 10 hours.

    How do they go to the bathroom?  Do they just hold it all day?  It's 85 degrees, so maybe they don't have to pee, but poo?

    Sometimes they do it during lunch (5.00 / 1) (#148)
    by Fabian on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 08:04:21 PM EST
    but if they are going to be back, make sure they know they shouldn't worry about using your facilities and that they are encouraged to.  

    They didn't leave (none / 0) (#153)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 10:17:43 PM EST
    for lunch, and they're still here!  It's been 12 hours.

    The helper actually used our potty finally.

    I told them it was okay, but they waited anyway.


    Men - so shy! (none / 0) (#164)
    by Fabian on Thu Sep 24, 2009 at 04:23:15 AM EST
    Have a word with the supervisor for sure.  I am more than happy to clean up any mess if it means they aren't dehydrated and have a chance to wash properly when they need to.

    Good TV is (none / 0) (#155)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 11:44:51 PM EST
    Ozzie Ozborne in the audience of Dancing With the Stars.  So funny.

    Now, if Kelly gets voted off, will Ozzie bite the head off a Len?

    The days of... (none / 0) (#168)
    by kdog on Thu Sep 24, 2009 at 08:28:26 AM EST
    no-knock warrants really have to be put behind us...no type or amount of dope is worth gettinging 5 people shot.