Monday Night Open Thread

It's almost time for "Weeds" and "Nurse Jackie" here, plus I'm preparing for a hearing early tomorrow on wiretap motions. There are so many of us that the Judge is limiting each lawyer to ten minutes of oral argument.

In other news, the Obama Administration has sent its report to Congress on human rights violations in Mexico, putting a favorable spin on them.

The AP reports AARP has lost 60,000 members over its support for Obama's health care plan. (I just sent in my renewal dues last week.)

If you're looking for our posts on the Supreme Court order in Troy Davis's death penalty case or the trial of Texas Judge Sharon Keller, they are here and here.

This is an open thread, all topics welcome.

< Former Snitch Busted in Largest Identity Theft Case in U.S. History | Study: 90% of Currency in U.S. Has Traces of Cocaine >
  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft

  • Display: Sort:
    i just read on TPM (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by cpinva on Mon Aug 17, 2009 at 08:08:18 PM EST
    that rep. michelle Bachman (R-Batsh*t Crazy) is waiting for a personal audience with god, before she decides to run for president.

    it's inspired lunacy like this, that makes the US the most entertaining country in the world.

    Well (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 17, 2009 at 09:14:10 PM EST
    hopefully God will tell her no. I guess I dont know MN that well but I'm surprised they would have a rep as crazy as she is. She's straight out of central casting for a republican from somewhere like GA or MS.

    The Lutherans (none / 0) (#6)
    by Steve M on Mon Aug 17, 2009 at 09:23:10 PM EST
    kinda have a crazy wing like the southern-fried denominations.

    That said, Bachmann's quote didn't strike me as much different from the way a lot of religious folks talk.  I guess maybe it sounds nutty to the sort of people who think all religion is nutty.


    Well (none / 0) (#7)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 17, 2009 at 09:28:37 PM EST
    I didnt read her quote just the post. She must be one of those Missoui Synod Lutherans. They can be really out there.

    Actually (none / 0) (#8)
    by Steve M on Mon Aug 17, 2009 at 09:39:26 PM EST
    my stepmother, who was a mainline Lutheran, used to refer to Missouri Synod as the crazies... but Bachmann belongs to a branch of the church that is even more extreme than that!  Wisconsin something something, I think.

    Ah, yeh. Wisconsin Synod. (none / 0) (#10)
    by Cream City on Mon Aug 17, 2009 at 09:59:32 PM EST
    But then, there are at least fourteen sorts of Lutherans.  And all witnessing at each other.  That's the true test of "Midwestern nice."

    She's WELS. (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by Cream City on Mon Aug 17, 2009 at 10:24:45 PM EST
    I looked her up.  She's Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod -- third-largest sort of Lutherans -- although WELS is affiliated with ELS, based in Minnesota, so she may have come from that sort.

    Very strict readers of the word of the Bible as the word of God, no interpretation allowed, believe me.


    LOL Can I quote you on that (none / 0) (#11)
    by MO Blue on Mon Aug 17, 2009 at 10:00:32 PM EST
    Wisconsin something something

    That's what I deplored most about Bush (5.00 / 2) (#9)
    by suzieg on Mon Aug 17, 2009 at 09:54:40 PM EST
    becoming President. He's lowered the bar so low, anyone now think they can become President!

    My nine year old was getting his Buddha on (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 07:00:49 AM EST
    last night.  He was verbally going over how many mistakes lead us all to deeper wisdoms and understandings while I was painting his bedroom trim.  He was very proud of his bedroom.  He chose the colors and it turned out pretty nice...he calls it tasteful.  Then he took a deep breath and said, "And George Bush was our President so that America would know what a really crappy President looks like".  I love kids

    Gee (none / 0) (#18)
    by cal1942 on Mon Aug 17, 2009 at 11:05:33 PM EST
    could it be that we'll see a Palin/Bachman ticket in 2012.

    Think about that for entertainment value.


    Maybe... (5.00 / 2) (#40)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 08:47:45 AM EST
    ...Orly Taitz could be the campaign manager for even more entertainment value.  

    Palin/Bachman, bringing the crazy in '12!


    Sounds like the name of (none / 0) (#50)
    by easilydistracted on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 09:28:51 AM EST
    an old "hair" band from the 80s or something.

    You mean... (none / 0) (#53)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 09:40:43 AM EST
    ...like this?

    Hey, lay off BTO (none / 0) (#60)
    by Bemused on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 10:16:15 AM EST
      It wasn't a "hair" band and was big in the 70s not the 80s. Randy Bachman (of the Guess Who before BTO)is an excellent musician and singer, wrote some very good and enduring songs and definitely didn't succeed because of his hair or looks in general.

      BTO was a fave of mine in early and mid 70s and the first rock concert I ever attended.


    An Open Thread seems the right place (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by MO Blue on Mon Aug 17, 2009 at 10:26:29 PM EST
    to ask this question. Did Obama ever use the term post partisan unity or was this something one of his supporters came up with when other Dems were becoming upset with of his bipartisan rhetoric?

    Far as I know (5.00 / 2) (#22)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon Aug 17, 2009 at 11:55:03 PM EST
    the phrase is not something he ever used, or would ever use.  He might have once or twice said the word "post-partisan," but even that I doubt.  I think that was a characterization of the MSM commentariat, and "unity shtick" was added by the small corners of the blogosphere that remained skeptical.

    The Audacity of Hope (5.00 / 2) (#27)
    by ruffian on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 06:54:13 AM EST
    chapter called 'Republicans and Democrats' spells out his ideas on the evils of partisanship. The last couple of lines in the chapter sum it up. He is talking about Americans, most of which he thinks don't care about partisanship:

    I imagine they are waiting for a politics with the maturity to balance idealism and realism, to distinguish between what can and cannot be compromised, to admit the possibility that the other side might sometimes have a point. They don't always understand the arguments between right and left, conservative and liberal, but they recongize the difference between dogma and common sense, responsibility and irresponsibility, between those things that last and those that are fleeting.

    They are out there waiting for Republicans and Democrats to catch up with them.

    This is his description of post-partisan unity. The 'schtick' comes from the view that he might not really believe this is possible or worthwhile, but just an act to seem like a reasonable guy that is above the fray.

    I'm not sure it is 'schtick'. I think he might really believe it.


    By the way (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by ruffian on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 07:18:49 AM EST
    One of the anecdotes Obama uses to illustrate the horrors of partisanship is that during the Bush tax cut battle when Rove was wheeling and dealing for Senate votes, a Dem senator told Rove that if he made certain changes in the bill, he'd get 70 votes in the Senate.

    Rove supposedly told him: "I don't want 70 votes. I want 51."

    Such horrible partisanship - god forbid we have an of that anymore.


    I think he believes it too (none / 0) (#31)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 07:51:00 AM EST
    And I also think that he thought he was ushering in the end of Depression Era economics.

    It's possible to be (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by Fabian on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 08:00:19 AM EST
    post partisan when you are just an average citizen and even when you are a local politician because people want results, not rhetoric.

    But when you are at the top of the political food chain and it all hinges on who has the most power and who can get lobbyists keep the campaign cash coming in - you aren't surrounded by little people who want results.  You are surrounded by people who will find every reason why other things are more important that results - the status quo, their careers, and so on.


    Rhetoric isn't always the thing (none / 0) (#68)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 11:39:14 AM EST
    that is preventing us from reaching our goals though if the rhetoric is addressed.  Through addressing rhetoric new social norms are created.  It's just my opinion but perceived social norms are allowing Congress to sell us out on the healthcare we all deserve.  I don't know in this day how any of us can hope to make any actual progress without addressing rhetoric.  But I enjoy looking into the face of the devil even when I'm on vacation :)

    Maybe he wanted to (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by ruffian on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 08:07:24 AM EST
    usher in the end of Depression era economics - too bad he was elected on the brink of a depression!

    I think his perceptions of (none / 0) (#69)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 11:40:47 AM EST
    the wrongness of "Depression Economics" is preventing him from being affective in dealing with our economic situation though.

    Not that I remember (none / 0) (#28)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 06:56:54 AM EST
    I remember him saying there is no Red America or Blue America.  I remember him saying that he refused to become embroiled in partisan rhetoric.  I think the press is who began terming him as post-partisan.  He did say "unity" a lot.

    In that first speech of his at the Dem (none / 0) (#75)
    by sallywally on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 01:12:44 PM EST
    convention, I think he said something like:

    There is no Red America. There is no Blue America. There is only the United States of America.


    Peter Daou makes (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by andgarden on Mon Aug 17, 2009 at 11:32:45 PM EST
    an interesting point:

    So to my fellow digerati: it's time to admit that the communications landscape, at least in politics, isn't necessarily tilted in favor of new media. The health reform showdown is powerful evidence that the much-touted online advantage of the left, if not a chimera, is certainly questionable when it comes to major political confrontations.

    Perhaps that's one reason for the diminished turnout of mainstream reporters at Netroots Nation--the creeping sense that the left's online muscle has taken a major hit with the health reform message wars and that the balance of power between old and new media is shifting back toward the former.

    That's only going to get more pronounced with the ongoing co-opting of new media by the establishment, the increasing deployment by established media outlets of online tools, the advent of hybrid media outlets like the Politico, the continued preeminence of cable news as the agenda-setter for daily chatter, the use of YouTube to disseminate mainstream media content, and the explosive adoption of Twitter by Beltway reporters.

    It's been fashionable in tech/political circles to think of the Internet as an establishment-slayer that destroys business models and shakes up the political landscape and to consider 2008 a watershed for citizen empowerment, but the more sober scenario is one where the establishment stops the bleeding, stabilizes, and reasserts its capacity to shape public perceptions. The health care battle bolsters the latter case.

    This portends poorly for Democrats. If you've been fretting about Democratic prospects in 2010 and 2012, then you have every reason to be concerned now that we see how much mileage the right can get out of rickety `old' media.

    Much more at the link.

    This part I don't get (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 12:02:21 AM EST
    "the use of YouTube to disseminate mainstream media content"

    If we're talking about the anti-health care reform town halls, it's the other way around.  Right-wing protesters were urged to make videos of the events and post them on YouTube, which the MSM has trolled heavily for "colorful" protest video, which has amplified and exaggerrated this stuff to the point that right-wing pols can then claim it's "democracy in action" and that "the people" are angry and don't want "Obamacare."

    So seems to me it's going the other way around from what Daou says.  "New media" isn't just words, it's also video, and we all know which of those two is more powerful, especially to today's craven, sensation-seeking, profit-driven "news" organizations.

    I'd say the right wing has played this extraordinarly well, thanks to "new media."  The "old media" is jumping to it.


    Agreed (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by andgarden on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 12:05:26 AM EST
    The technology is available to everyone. It's all about who's fired up.

    Agree (5.00 / 2) (#26)
    by BrassTacks on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 01:03:18 AM EST
    It's not the old vs the new, it's the right wing using the new media as they haven't before now.

    Dang that new media (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by ruffian on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 08:19:58 AM EST
    and it's reliance on people being able and willing to read.

    its. Hate when I do that (5.00 / 3) (#36)
    by ruffian on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 08:21:02 AM EST
    while condemning illiteracy.

    Love the irony :) (none / 0) (#39)
    by jbindc on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 08:39:37 AM EST
    Every now and then I get paid back (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by ruffian on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 09:29:05 AM EST
    for being an arrogant elitist.

    In a mixed sign, Justice Sotomayor (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by andgarden on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 08:11:44 AM EST
    joins with the other liberals to great a stay of an Ohio execution. The bad news is that they were outvoted 5:4.

    A good sign.. (5.00 / 2) (#37)
    by kdog on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 08:29:49 AM EST
    from Sotomayor...now we just need one of the "pro-death panel" justices to retire.

    Speaking of death panel advocates in government...can we expect some shouting over this at the next townhall? I mean juries are the only legally sanctioned death panels that I know to positively exist, and their death powers should be stopped before we descend further into socialist dystopia...but I guess this kind of socialist death policy is something the "anti-socialism" socialists actually support.


    puppy pics (5.00 / 2) (#38)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 08:31:04 AM EST





    taken with my phone so not the best.  my digital camera seems to have died.

    They are so beautiful! (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by ruffian on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 09:07:56 AM EST
    I'm really starting to miss having two dogs. The interaction is so much of the fun.

    thanks (none / 0) (#45)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 09:17:51 AM EST
    they make a pretty cute couple.

    and ya, two is better I think (none / 0) (#46)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 09:20:10 AM EST
    he has had a little adjustment because he as been an only child for two years but I can already tell he is a happier dog with company.

    I feel a little guilty (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by ruffian on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 09:26:55 AM EST
    about not getting my dog a buddy since my ruffy died in March. He's never been an only dog before. He seems to be doing OK with it, but is probably really bored during his (few) waking hours.

    On the other hand, walking and traveling and other things are a lot easier with just one. I'm trying to compromise by taking him to day care now and then and the dog park every weekend and some evenings.

    But being a recovering Catholic I have a vast reservoir of guilt he can play on...


    Really (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 09:46:14 AM EST
    really cute.  Thanks for sharing.

    Awww (none / 0) (#41)
    by MO Blue on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 08:56:35 AM EST
    They look so much alike. Also looks like they are enjoying each others company.

    yep (5.00 / 2) (#42)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 08:59:41 AM EST
    they were friends almost immediately.  its funny she  has such a different personality but some of her mannerisms, the things they do unconsciously when they are happy or excited, are so much like him its weird.

    Bob Hebert (5.00 / 2) (#54)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 09:45:26 AM EST
    actually gets it this time! Kudos.

    This Is Reform?

    It's never a contest when the interests of big business are pitted against the public interest. So if we manage to get health care "reform" this time around it will be the kind of reform that benefits the very people who have given us a failed system, and thus made reform so necessary.

    The hope of a government-run insurance option is all but gone. So there will be no effective alternative for consumers in the market for health coverage, which means no competitive pressure for private insurers to rein in premiums and other charges. (Forget about the nonprofit cooperatives. That's like sending peewee footballers up against the Super Bowl champs.)

    We are of like minds...for once.


    MT Governor Brian Schweitzer (5.00 / 2) (#58)
    by MO Blue on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 10:08:57 AM EST
    sells Canadian Health Care At Obama Town Hall. link

    Gov.Schweitzer mentioned that their system has been around for 62 years to dispel the notion that universal health coverage is a radical new idea. He also used humor effectively to drive home his point.

    Quoting a Canadian journalist, Schweitzer said it was said that "there's more likelihood of a person in Canada being struck by lightning than there is a likelihood of a Canadian going to the United States for their health care."

    Not only did he live to tell about it but

    Most of the crowd of 1,300 in the Gallatin Field Airport hangar roared its approval.

    Way to go Governor.

    War on Lemonade Stands.... (5.00 / 2) (#59)
    by kdog on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 10:14:01 AM EST
    continues...this time my hometown...Jeez Louise.

    Free market my arse.

    Well color me surprised... (none / 0) (#77)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 19, 2009 at 08:05:17 AM EST
    the good guys won one for a change, the girl is back in the lemonade business, the wanna-be tyrant who ticketed the poor kid has been removed from a position from tyrannizing anybody else.  Link

    Good on the parks commisioner...now mow some freakin' grass at Kissena and Alley Pond so my outfielders don't look like they are playing softball in the Everglades and you'll be my bueracrat of the year!...:)


    wow (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 11:46:31 AM EST
    the man who carried a semi-automatic assault rifle outside yesterday's presidential event tells fellow demonstrators "We will forcefully resist people imposing their will on us through the strength of the majority with a vote."

    I gotta say... (none / 0) (#71)
    by kdog on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 11:56:49 AM EST
    I kinda wish I was that crazy...I too would like to forcefully resist the tyranny of the majority, only on other issues, but I'm too scared of chains & cages. As well as being afraid of getting shot while forcefully resisting:)

    Yep...its passive resistance for me, aka duck and cover living, aka freedom under the radar..life is too sweet, even in a tyranny-lite society. If it gets a lot worse I'll revisit the issue:)


    Poor AARP! (none / 0) (#2)
    by BrassTacks on Mon Aug 17, 2009 at 08:54:08 PM EST
    It's shocking that they have lost so many members over a comment that the President made!  That's awful.  I do wish Obama had thought before he spoke on that comment.  

    Who is Michelle Bachman?

    I find it unlikely (5.00 / 3) (#3)
    by Steve M on Mon Aug 17, 2009 at 09:09:10 PM EST
    that very many of the 60,000 members the AARP has reportedly lost since July 1 made their decision based upon a comment the President didn't make until August 11.

    I find it more likely that these members left due to the actual fact of AARP's support for health care reform.


    Now, it's Medicare cuts (5.00 / 2) (#12)
    by Cream City on Mon Aug 17, 2009 at 10:01:42 PM EST
    that are the cause, and that came earlier from Obama, and AARP opposes such cuts, and I bet you knew all that even without reading the link.

    Yeah (5.00 / 6) (#17)
    by cal1942 on Mon Aug 17, 2009 at 11:00:51 PM EST
    that was a really sharp move when he talked about taking funds from Medicare.

    When he made a big deal out of cutting costs by doing research on procedures he left HCR wide open for charges of rationing.

    He's done such a terrible job regarding HCR beginning with doing no job at all that any talk of his "brilliance" is IMO setting the bar for brilliance on the floor.


    Here's something to ponder... (5.00 / 4) (#20)
    by Anne on Mon Aug 17, 2009 at 11:18:43 PM EST
    Why hasn't Obama appointed a Medicare/Medicaid administrator?

    Lambert has a post up at Corrente that bears thinking about:


    President Obama has made health care his top priority. He says the cost of Medicare and Medicaid is "the biggest threat" to the nation's fiscal future. But to the puzzlement of Congress and health care experts around the country, Mr. Obama has not named anyone to lead the agency that runs the two giant programs.

    The agency, the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, is the largest buyer of health care in the United States. Its programs are at the heart of efforts to overhaul the health care system. If it had an administrator, that person would be working with Congress on legislation and could be preparing the agency for a new, expanded role.

    So, Obama doesn't want a Medicare/Medicaid administrator working with Congress then, right? I wonder why?

    "The vacancy stands out like a sore thumb," said Dr. Denis A. Cortese, president of the Mayo Clinic, often cited by the White House as a health care model.

    "In effect," Dr. Cortese said, "Medicare is the nation's largest insurance company. The president and Congress function as the board of directors.

    "Under a strong administrator, it could take the lead in making major changes in the health care delivery system, so we'd get better outcomes and better service at lower cost."

    So, Obama doesn't want a Medicare/Medicaid administrator taking the lead in making major changes, right? I wonder why?

    Trying to remake the health care system without a Medicare administrator is like fighting a war without a general.

    Well, that would depend on how you define the war, wouldn't it?

    If the war is to make sure that the insurance companies have a guaranteed market, and their power in the system is increased relative to Medicare/Medicaid, then making sure that the Medicare/Medicaid side has no general would make a lot of sense.

    We saw this same style of non-decision making once before at Treasury, where Obama's non-appointments meant that policy was essentially outsourced to the banksters, especially Goldman Sachs.

    So, I'd guess that Obama hasn't appointed a Medicare/Medicaid administrator because he wants to outsource policy to the health insurance companies (and f**k the Medicare/Medicaid recipients).

    Put me in mind of the still-languishing nomination of Dawn Johnsen to OLC...

    And, as is pointed out in the comments to lambert's post:

    isn't it
    By dblhelix on Mon, 08/17/2009 - 9:02pm
    because he's waiting on the formation of that "independent" executive branch panel to cut Medicare to find "savings"

    A strengthened MedPAC is seen by some lawmakers as a means to make policy changes in the Medicare program that would reduce long-term medical costs. While the Congressional Budget Office has said that one version of the proposal would result in only $2 billion in savings over a 10-year period, a larger savings estimate could arise if the new entity is given a target for cutting costs.

    It's supposed to work like a trigger that automatically goes into effect to cut costs unless Congress can find cuts costs elsewhere by the same amount.

    I mean, we had to find a way to support pharma handouts like making sure that they don't have to deal with Medicare rebates!

    I don't understand how any "progressive" can support this "reform."

    Things that make you go hmmmm...


    Anne, please do not (none / 0) (#24)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 12:05:01 AM EST
    reprint entire articles or blog posts. Link to them and quote a paragraph or two to make your point. This space is for your comments, not reprinting the work of others. Thanks.

    Sorry, J! (none / 0) (#72)
    by Anne on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 11:57:07 AM EST
    I actually thought I had lopped off a good bit of lambert's post, so as not to put too much of it in, so I'm not sure what happened there.

    Will be more careful in the future!


    Maybe a little more nuanced (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by MO Blue on Mon Aug 17, 2009 at 10:05:19 PM EST
    than that. If the health insurance reform did not contain cuts to the Medicare budget, the number might not have been so large.

    Well sure (5.00 / 2) (#14)
    by Steve M on Mon Aug 17, 2009 at 10:07:26 PM EST
    They don't say what exactly these people oppose about health care reform, but we can assume that many of them are concerned about the possibility of Medicare benefit cuts.  Regardless, I just wanted to respond to the counterchronological point about Obama's comment.

    A completely insane (none / 0) (#19)
    by cal1942 on Mon Aug 17, 2009 at 11:06:55 PM EST
    Congressperson from Minnesota.

    Chris Christie has a disclosure problem (none / 0) (#4)
    by andgarden on Mon Aug 17, 2009 at 09:14:08 PM EST
    in the garden state. Dunno if this will have any political impact, but I'm happy to see him in the weeds finally.

    The final straw (none / 0) (#43)
    by Slado on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 09:03:06 AM EST
    and now I officially don't like Chavez.

    Chavez bans golf

    Nobody can defend him now can they?

    I stopped defending... (none / 0) (#47)
    by kdog on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 09:20:20 AM EST
    that enemy to liberty years ago...but I gotta admit if I was tyrant for a day I'd be tempted to do the same...maybe Hugo is a Carlin fan too:)

    "I know just the place to build housing for the homeless: golf courses. It's perfect. Plenty of good land in nice neighborhoods that is currently being squandered on a mindless activity engaged in by white, well-to-do business criminals who use the game to get together so they can make deals to carve this country up a little finer among themselves."

    Well, I am whiter than white... (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 09:45:28 AM EST
    ...but not a criminal nor well-to-do and the only deals we make are who gets to drive the cart and who pays for drinks.  

    A few hours with friends in the great outdoors laughing and having a good time isn't my idea of squandering either.  


    I know bro... (none / 0) (#57)
    by kdog on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 09:57:32 AM EST
    I'm just joshing...golf is an everyman game now, my uncles, aunt, and cousins played three rounds during the McArab tribe reunion this weekend...they too ain't using the course to hold a Brooks Brothers mafia meet:)

    I stayed at the crib drinking Bloody Marys with the rest of the ladies and my non-golfing brothers...poking fun at their waking up at 5am ways:)


    Yeah... (none / 0) (#61)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 10:22:34 AM EST
    ...I'm not crazy enough to haul my arse out of bed at 5am.  I need all the beauty sleep I can get!  

    We started at 9:40a on Sunday and I barely made that.  Definately not much of a morning person.


    Up drinking and smoking till 3 am... (none / 0) (#62)
    by kdog on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 10:41:02 AM EST
    to boot...my oldest uncle made it 3 holes and slept in the cart for the rest of the round on Sunday morn...man, what a crew we got:)

    LOL. (none / 0) (#64)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 11:17:41 AM EST
    Sounds like one of our gathering of Polacks!  

    Only w/ Kibbe Nehi... (none / 0) (#73)
    by kdog on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 12:01:02 PM EST
    and baba ganoush instead of kielbasa and perogies:)

    Naw... (none / 0) (#74)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 12:17:25 PM EST
    ...we tend to center the food around catching, steaming and eating of Maryland blue crabs.  With some Maryland sweet corn and tomatoes thrown in for a little balance.    

    Mmmmm, crab.  Nothing like whacking crabs with a nice hammer and getting Old Bay and guts all over you.  Too bad most of my hard work usually goes to feeding my sister who is adverse to getting down and dirty, but does love her some fresh crab.  


    Well.... (none / 0) (#48)
    by ruffian on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 09:20:58 AM EST
    After fighting battles with developers in Colorado eating up so much land for golf courses and wanting to claim them as 'public open space'...

    I might have to say it is not the worst thing Chavez has done.


    If they claim its public open space... (none / 0) (#52)
    by kdog on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 09:29:45 AM EST
    tell them you and some friends plan on having a public open picnic in the middle of a public open fairway every Saturday morning...I'll think the developers will stop making that claim right quick:)



    Robert Novak (none / 0) (#63)
    by CoralGables on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 11:14:12 AM EST
    I'll speak no ill of him today. (a 24 hour moratorium)

    Watch Zappa (none / 0) (#65)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 11:18:28 AM EST
    kick his butt on Crossfire.

    Careful Asking A Lawyer To Remove His Shirt (none / 0) (#66)
    by daring grace on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 11:18:58 AM EST

    Your golf course idea reminds me of one of my issues with the definition of public space these days: shopping malls.

    First they take over retail commerce in this country, destroying the old 'downtowns' in the process and then their owners deny their common space constitutes anything like the public square they've essentially eliminated.

    There have been SC and state rulings about this, but the incident that still makes my teeth grind was this one at a mall in my area.

    Thank God it was a lawyer wearing that shirt!

    Interesting links... (none / 0) (#67)
    by kdog on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 11:34:48 AM EST
    I remember that t-shirt brew-ha-ha, and being very glad the guy refused, and outraged he could be arrested over it.

    The town square/commerce center that used to be where a speaker would go to be heard is dying at the alter of capitalism (don't disturb the commerce!)...I agree it is troubling.  We the people need to get on the ball and stop patronizing malls that do not allow free speech in the common areas of the mall, and make sure before public land is sold off to private developers they agree to respect free speech in the common areas, or no deal.


    Robert Novak (none / 0) (#76)
    by Inspector Gadget on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 04:19:03 PM EST