Tiller Murder Suspect Identified

The suspected arrested in the murder of Dr. George Tiller has been identified as 51 year old Scott Roeder of Merriman, KS. [Update: McClatchy has more on him here.]

Authorities expect to charge Roeder with murder today.

[[Roeder]was once a subscriber and occasional contributor to a newsletter, Prayer and Action News.... Dave Leach, an anti-abortion activist from Des Moines who runs the newsletter... said he and Mr. Roeder had met once, and Mr. Roeder had described similar views to his own.

Of Dr. Tiller’s death, Mr. Leach said, “To call this a crime is too simplistic,” adding, “There is Christian scripture that would support this."

An Operation Rescue leader released a contrary view: [More...]

“Operation Rescue has worked tirelessly on peaceful, nonviolent measures to bring him to justice through the legal system, the legislative system,” Mr. Newman said, adding, “We are pro-life, and this act was antithetical to what we believe.”

Roeder, while not a member or contributor to Operation Rescue, had posted on its blog. A sample:

“Tiller is the concentration camp ‘Mengele’ of our day and needs to be stopped before he and those who protect him bring judgment upon our nation.”

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    O'Reilly (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 11:02:02 AM EST
    Has been bashing Tiller for years, apparently, sometimes referring to him as "Tiller the baby killer," according to this report on TVnewser.

    I just watched the DailyKos (5.00 / 0) (#3)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 11:10:09 AM EST
    O'Reilly clip.  I don't watch O'Reilly so I had never really seen any of this.  First class distorting of facts hate breeding.  I would have said it was sad, but today it turns my stomach.

    TVNewser (5.00 / 0) (#99)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 03:22:12 PM EST
    says he's going to say something about it on this evening's show, but I'm not holding my breath for any repentence or acceptance of responsibility.

    I won't be giving that scumbag (5.00 / 2) (#102)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 03:45:42 PM EST
    any ratings either.  I'll wait for it to come out on video.  He has nothing to say that matters to me in real time anyhow!

    My bet (5.00 / 1) (#104)
    by ColumbiaDuck on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 04:30:15 PM EST
    He's going to say that it's outrageous that anyone would blame him for this.  that Democrats are playing politics with a tragedy and he's the victim of distortion and mean-spirited partisanship.

    Where Do You Want To (none / 0) (#122)
    by Cards In 4 on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 05:32:44 PM EST
    go with someone using overheated rhetoric?

    Bill Maher wished harm on Cheney.  You can easily find people calling Bush & Cheney killers, much more often than BOR ever called Tiller a killer.

    Until there is some evidence that the killer took BOR's words to heart as a reason to shoot Tiller, it is unwise to blame O'Reilly.  Just as it was not right for Clinton to blame Rush for what McVeigh did when it was really in response to Waco and Ruby Ridge.  I don't know that McVeigh ever listened to Rush.

    People seem awfully quick to blame people exercising their free speech rights.  If someone tries to shoot Bush or Cheney I would hope people would not blame the overheated rhetoric on the DK.


    I forgot about O'Reilly the other day (none / 0) (#2)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 11:04:46 AM EST
    when I was trying to remember the "talking stars" out there that are a waste of skin out there like Tweety and Rush.

    I went to some of those blogs (5.00 / 5) (#4)
    by Cream City on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 11:12:30 AM EST
    of the hate-filled anti-abortionists yesterday, inadvertently, in trying to find more info.  The statements made there are astonishing, to the point that I can't imagine why the DOJ didn't provide the protection yesterday -- or weeks or months ago -- that it is providing today to the only other two doctors left who do the procedure that Tiller did.  And thus protection to staffs (I never will forget the nurses also shot, injured, paralyzed) and, of course, patients.  And now, protection is needed even to Midwestern Lutherans being handed church bulletins on Sunday mornings.

    Considering who lands on no-fly lists, I also can't imagine how homeland security could allow any of those commenters even near an airport.

    But (5.00 / 7) (#6)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 11:15:23 AM EST
    But Cream, you don't understand, it's a "difficult issue," a "moral dilemma".



    Liss writes a letter (5.00 / 4) (#20)
    by trillian on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 11:54:24 AM EST
    This one from Liss (Shakesville) (5.00 / 3) (#98)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 02:32:28 PM EST
    is also particularly good: Obama Still Not Getting It on Abortion.

    It's about Obama's tactic of creating a false moral/ethical/political equivalence between "both sides" of the abortion debate.

    Note to Obama: factions within one side of the debate openly advocate, and commit, extreme acts of premeditated violence; i.e. bombing clinics and shooting, maiming, and murdering reproductive health care providers.


    Vast majoirty (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 03:24:12 PM EST
    of "pro-life" folks in this country are not violent nutjobs.  Obama was obviously addressing them, not the crazies.  For those folks -- and I know a few -- it truly is a "dificult issue" and a "moral dilemma" they're trying to sort out.

    But the issue (4.66 / 9) (#103)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 04:19:05 PM EST
    is NOT abortion.

    The issue is a woman's RIGHT to CHOOSE what to do with her body.  And Obama didn't address that in the least in his lame statement.  Women's choice is not a "difficult moral dilemma."  It is an individual personal privacy right that is unquestionable -- or at least true Democrats think so.  

    Here's Gov Patterson's statement on Tilly's death.  This is what a REAL bold Democrat says, as opposed to, um other pandering, gutless right-centrist ninny Democrats.


    "I was deeply saddened to learn that Dr. George Tiller, a well-known provider of and advocate for women's health care, was gunned down this morning at his church in Wichita, Kansas. With his murder, we are robbed not only of a dedicated and courageous physician, but also of a husband, father and neighbor. On behalf of all New Yorkers, I would like to express my deepest condolences to Dr. Tiller's family, friends and community. Our thoughts and prayers are with them during this difficult time.

    "Dr. Tiller was targeted for his belief in the right of women to make their own health decisions. He protected that right and sought to ensure that his patients were provided with the medical, emotional and spiritual counsel they needed to make the right choice for themselves and their families. He continued this work despite the threat of harmful retaliation, physical attacks and the destruction of his clinic. We will forever remember his fearlessness, compassion and commitment.

    Patternson understood what Democratic principles are.  He is a rare person right now.


    Teresa, if you truly (5.00 / 1) (#126)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 05:51:44 PM EST
    believe, as many do, that abortion is killing a life, then the issue IS abortion, not a woman's right to choose.  No one, obviously, has the right to choose to kill another person.

    I don't happen to believe that abortion is taking a life, but many people truly and sincerely do.

    And late-term abortion when there's a viable fetus, even a badly damaged one, bothers a lot more people.  It's just plain silly -- and very narrow-minded, I have to say -- to act as if every person who is opposed to abortion is a nutjob fanatical potential murderer.  They're just not.


    It can't survive outside of my body (2.00 / 1) (#128)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 05:53:19 PM EST
    It isn't another person.

    Spot on. Ought I try to sort out (4.70 / 10) (#105)
    by Cream City on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 04:31:03 PM EST
    the "moral dilemma" of men getting vasectomies?  Or prostate surgery?  Or condoms over the counter, when to be fair, men ought to also be told to seek a prescription from their physicians and the advice of their physicians and their spiritual advisors before restricting their reproduction.  

    After all, when my mother's physician said that she needed a hysterectomy, my mother's parish priest banned it because it would mean no more breeding.  So she went on to have yet more pregnancies, which took years off her life -- and affected her health horribly in the years that she had left to her.  And to us.  

    But to her spiritual advisor, as it were, it was a "moral dilemma" -- which, of course he decided for her.  I suppose the priests would have told my grandmother not to stop having children, either -- not even after five children by the time that she was 30.  So the next one killed her.

    But these were moral dilemmas, not health issues, according to some who would tell me and my physician what to do, too.  And, more important, my daughter and her physician?  No way, not while I can cross arms to defend again the handful of clinics left here, where there were more than three times as many before the Operation Rescue and others' attacks in my city.  

    I have absolutely no moral dilemma about defending our right to decide our own health issues, and even our own moral dilemmas -- and, after all, it's the law.


    Grrrrr it just pisses me off (4.40 / 5) (#106)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 04:39:14 PM EST
    when any dude wants to talk about abortion being a "moral dilemma" for them.  If carrying a pregnancy could ever threaten any of their careers, make them so sick they couldn't even work, or jeopardized their health, you couldn't get enough dudes together to argue about abortion being a deeply troubling moral issue against all the rest of the dudes who demanded their choice and STFU to even take a good spit at.  Just pisses me off!

    I guess I'd piss you off old pal... (5.00 / 1) (#117)
    by kdog on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 05:04:14 PM EST
    damn right its a moral dilemma, thats why I wear the god forsaken rubbers...to avoid a very tough choice for her and tough consequences all around no matter what ya do. You know what I'm sayin'...

    You can be unapologetically pro-choice and recognize the moral dilemma of abortion.  Sh*t...Modern medicine is full of moral dilemmas we battle with all the time.  


    You are a man who cares (2.00 / 1) (#136)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 07:21:18 PM EST
    about his DNA kdog.  In my experience you aren't exactly the promised norm out there!

    I've lived them with Josh too (none / 0) (#125)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 05:47:16 PM EST
    One physician asked my why I wanted to use my child for a guinea pig when I wanted Tricare to approve him for the Titanium Rib procedure that saved his life.  It wasn't FDA approved yet and some coward of a doctor who didn't want to do any research pulled that moral dilemma right out of his a$$ :)  Sometimes they even made me cry, but they don't anymore.  I'm just effing mean!  I'm tired of crying!

    My former ex, a physician, (none / 0) (#109)
    by oculus on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 04:44:24 PM EST
    was wont to say:  pregnancy is a state of health.

    On another note:  did you hear the NPR piece on male, monthly birth control shots?


    I wonder what got your ex exed :)? (none / 0) (#112)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 04:53:53 PM EST
    I was puke sick with both of my children.  I had to quit working with the first for the first trimester and then had to have a lite workload after that until delivery.  Poor Josh, of course my bod kept trying to miscarry him for the whole first trimester and then after that I suffered from polyhydramnios and was giant huge and utterly miserable (which later we discovered goes hand in hand with a Freeman Sheldon Syndrome pregnancy).  Couldn't be employed with him at all.  Thank God I have the wonderful husband I have.......I could survive all that.  Too bad the world isn't full of other male copies of my husband, but it isn't!

    Very tough. (none / 0) (#118)
    by oculus on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 05:07:23 PM EST
    [I actually was pretty "healthy" thoughout.

    Some women are (none / 0) (#124)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 05:44:05 PM EST
    You never know what to expect till ya get there.  I have a friend who has rheumatoid arthritis.  She actually grieved not having more children after they hit the three they decided on because her arthritis goes into remission when she's pregnant.  She also has the eye form of it in one eye, it's terrible to deal with.

    Religious Right Determined to Strike in US (5.00 / 4) (#97)
    by ruffian on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 02:31:45 PM EST
    We can't say we did not get the brief.

    They're white and Republican-voting (3.50 / 2) (#8)
    by scribe on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 11:16:13 AM EST
    (when they vote).  There's reason #1.

    Reason #2:  the folks in police/homeland security uniforms agree (in their hearts) with the anti-abortion terrorists' POV.  All authoritarians love each other and authority.


    You are very brave (none / 0) (#12)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 11:23:06 AM EST
    I really worked over the yard.  It had been on the family schedule.  I didn't think about it for hours.  Then when the sun began to set and skeeters came out we came inside for some small steaks and I remembered again.

    He's a member of the American Taliban (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by andgarden on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 11:14:56 AM EST
    This is what they do.

    Randall Terry who founded (5.00 / 2) (#7)
    by inclusiveheart on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 11:15:34 AM EST
    Operation Rescue released a statement that was much more inflammatory.

    Yup - something to the effect of (5.00 / 7) (#10)
    by scribe on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 11:17:27 AM EST
    "the only thing we regret is that he got it so quickly he didn't have a chance to repent before he met God, but he had plenty of chances before that...."

    But, Randall Terry is Not A Terrorist.


    Even though these thugs (5.00 / 2) (#14)
    by scribe on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 11:34:45 AM EST
    put stuff like this up on their sites.

    Given that Tiller has been killed, and only the people who worked for him have been identified in the pictures (Both by name and by job), I think that document alone kinda makes for a pretty explicit threat by the anti-abortion thugs not only against the employees, but also against the politician in the pictures with them:  former Governor and now-HHS Secretary Sibelius.


    In addition to the state murder charge (5.00 / 4) (#9)
    by Peter G on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 11:17:15 AM EST
    I hope AG Holder and the US Atty for the federal District of Kansas are also looking at asking a grand jury to bring federal criminal charges under the FACES Act ("Freedom of Access to Clinic Entrances"), that is, subsection (a)(1) and/or (a)(2) of 18 U.S.C. sec. 248. This law authorizes a life sentence if "death results" from either of the civil rights violations that were committed ([1] intentionally injuring a person because he has been providing reproductive health services and/or to intimidate any other person from providing such services; and [2] intentionally injuring a person who is "lawfully exercising or seeking to exercise the First Amendment right of religious freedom at a place of religious worship").

    Don't need to go there (5.00 / 3) (#11)
    by scribe on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 11:18:15 AM EST
    because we don't have to worry about First Amendment issues.

    He's a terrorist and chargeable as such.  


    I am still shocked by this (5.00 / 6) (#13)
    by lilburro on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 11:27:53 AM EST
    I think Obama needs to call this an assassination and make clear that this will not be tolerated on any level.  It's not just a "heinous act of violence."  These people need to be called out on their bullsh*t.

    He was a vital part of a failing (5.00 / 4) (#15)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 11:39:13 AM EST
    system to protect pregnant women from actually dying due to being third trimester pregnant among other things.  He possessed an enormous amount of knowledge and skill too to be able to do what he did.  He was irreplaceable in any kind of timely fashion....and now he is.  It's a sort of devastation being female for 44 years, and knowing how many sisters who have had to deal with so many various realities and dangers during pregnancy.  Some obstetrician after suffering some horrors as a physician will likely one day try to fill the void if we are lucky but even if they do everything Tiller knew and understood is gone to us now except for what those who knew him and worked with him can give us and hopefully any writings and teachings he may have passed on.

    I think if you ARE pro-choice (5.00 / 4) (#18)
    by lilburro on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 11:48:46 AM EST
    you must acknowledge his and other doctors' and staffers' heroism.  Dr. Tiller seems to have embodied the spirit of dignity that being pro-choice is all about.  These people have to walk the walk everyday - and it isn't easy.  Any conversation about abortion that does NOT acknowledge the bravery of these people is a worthless one.

    Has he said anything yet? (5.00 / 2) (#19)
    by NJDem on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 11:51:17 AM EST
    I too am still in shock--especially considering the place was vandalized just a few weeks ago and it could have been prevented...

    I'm still upset there has been NO Dem leadership about the Prop 8 ruling, so if there's none on this I'm really going to have to questions if this is the death of social liberalism as we know it...


    I swear to God it is like everything (none / 0) (#22)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 11:56:51 AM EST
    and it frustrates me to no end right now.  The military has to remember again why they don't torture after giving it a go for a bit.  We will have to lose people we cherish and love physically and spiritually within our communities who gave and gave and gave to society before we remember why we don't feed insanity!

    Obama's statement (none / 0) (#23)
    by lilburro on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 11:57:29 AM EST
    is here.

    I suppose Obama can't say the word (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 12:02:59 PM EST
    assassination since he's hiring the dude within the military who preforms assassinations better than anyone else.....sigh  His comment is worse than disappointing.  I'm really starting to not like him as a human being at all.

    NYT: (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by oculus on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 12:10:49 PM EST
    You are such a good friend and consistent (none / 0) (#41)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 12:18:38 PM EST
    Times reader :)  Very good editorial.  I was talking with a soldier person about how McChrystal ran his torture camps with nobody in the military wearing their uniform or using their real name, only made up first names and NO last name ever.  The soldier did say that if you wanted to get away with a military operation breaking the law and completely disrupt the ability to investigate, that move was god damned brilliant.

    I'm pretty certain NYT has someone (none / 0) (#43)
    by oculus on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 12:24:10 PM EST
    tracking your comments on TL!

    What a fruitcake that would be :) (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 12:26:03 PM EST
    Thanks for the link! (2.00 / 1) (#59)
    by NJDem on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 12:56:44 PM EST
    Who wins a pony for calling the 'difficult issue' stuff?  So not the time for that--as far as I'm concerned, that statement was seriously weak.  

    I'm sure Gibbs will be asked about this today.  Anyone watching?



    No, a doctor was assassinated (5.00 / 2) (#29)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 12:09:31 PM EST
    he wasn't beaten to death or tortured to death....he was assassinated.

    This was a political crime (5.00 / 3) (#36)
    by lilburro on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 12:14:27 PM EST
    It was caused by an attitude of violence in a social movement and is only one in a string of similar attacks.  In order to prevent the next one we have to acknowledge that.  Is this going over your head?  That truly is laughable.

    Lil, agreed it was an assassination... (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 01:31:03 PM EST
    given that an assassination may be defined as the murder of a prominent person for political, ideological, and/or religious reasons.

    However, I am unclear as to the legal distinction between assassination and murder. In any event, considering the assassin's background and affiliations, there must be an arguable case here for conspiracy, which would compound the murder charge.

    Other than that, there may be an option to prosecute via the Clinton era "Freedom of Access to Clinic Entrances Act", as specified at the link for the DOJ Civil Rights Division.


    I don't think there's a legal distinction (5.00 / 2) (#114)
    by lilburro on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 04:55:59 PM EST
    if there is one I don't know anything about it.  But in terms of crafting solutions to this type of violence, it's important to understand what happened.  This wasn't the first assault of its kind.  If all we were to do is look back and say, "oh, that was sad," we would be failing.  The terror calls for a political response.

    Remember (5.00 / 5) (#16)
    by lilburro on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 11:42:36 AM EST
    all the carping about how CEOs and AIG workers were getting death threats and how we were all supposed to be sympathetic?

    The fact that Dr. Tiller and his staff faced these threats constantly, for a legal procedure, is staggering.  We do a great disservice to his heroism when we ignore how intensely and frequently he was simply harassed.  I mean, it is totally insane that he had to live his life that way.  Can anyone step up and acknowledge that?

    And Dr. Hern in Fort Collins (5.00 / 3) (#17)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 11:45:18 AM EST
    has been stalked and harrassed and assaulted and through the same effing stuff for years and years and years!

    Via (5.00 / 3) (#25)
    by lilburro on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 11:59:19 AM EST
    Hunter at DKos...

    The man being questioned in connection with the investigation is Scott Roader, 51, of Merriam, Kan. [...]

    Neighbors said they've seen a similar car at the house in Merriam. They describe the ongoings at the house as strange. They said it's a revolving door of men coming and staying there and describe what appear to be religious gatherings.

    WTF ...

    You keep trying (5.00 / 2) (#37)
    by sj on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 12:15:42 PM EST
    but seem to get no takers.  Your blood thirsty little capital-punishment/take-the-law-into-your-own-hands attempts to get a mob going, aren't working here, are they?

    I wonder where they are working that you keep trying so hard.

    There is an observable inconsistency (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by oculus on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 12:27:35 PM EST
    at times.  

    No Kidding!!! (none / 0) (#49)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 12:30:43 PM EST
    I bet even Wile though doesn't necessarily think this dude needs fried if he's guilty ;)

    And there is a flexible standard for a (none / 0) (#52)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 12:42:48 PM EST
    creative curse that won't trigger filters thank God when my day gets really long and trying :)

    Roeder was a poster at FreeRepublic (5.00 / 4) (#53)
    by AX10 on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 12:47:03 PM EST
    Not surprising, all his posts have been (none / 0) (#66)
    by Inspector Gadget on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 01:06:33 PM EST
    scrubbed. Guessing his attorney had that done.

    WOW!!!!! (none / 0) (#68)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 01:10:10 PM EST
    Now that totally really messes me up.  I thought that intelligent debate kept all of us seeking real answers.

    It isn't as if much intelligent debate (none / 0) (#73)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 01:17:06 PM EST
    is happening on the tube.  Intelligent debate does take place on the net.  I suppose one must want to have that though in order to be participating in that.

    Maybe. It does make a difference (5.00 / 8) (#55)
    by Cream City on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 12:53:42 PM EST
    see the assassinations of MLK or RFK, for example.  The definition denotes that it is a targeted, political act -- and that does have political implications and can have political ramifications beyond those of murder.

    Right, (5.00 / 3) (#67)
    by NJDem on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 01:08:21 PM EST
    and it would give a sense of martyrdom for Dr. Teller.  Right now, IMO, the country is split between who's the real martyr here.  And the President is seems like once again he's trying not to choose sides.  Not that I've heard a powerful statements from any Dem out there yet...  

    I agree with you (none / 0) (#94)
    by Lacey on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 02:18:26 PM EST
    Although I think, in fairness, Obama and others likely didn't say assassination because you would think of it as an assassination, at least at first. I know I didn't, until it was mentioned by a commentator and I thought about it. But that's what it was. But previous cases of assassinations often involved well known political/religious/entertainment leaders.

    Sorry (none / 0) (#95)
    by Lacey on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 02:18:53 PM EST
    Should be 'wouldn't think of it as assassination'

    Aw man, J flushed Jesus (5.00 / 4) (#64)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 01:05:54 PM EST
    I wanted to talk to him.  I have questions :)

    And if you want to talk about things that (5.00 / 1) (#135)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 07:18:59 PM EST
    aren't talked about perhaps we could talk about the baby that was born at Evans Army hospital very prematurely in 2003 while his father was serving in Iraq.  The physicians and mother decided to let him die and he was not flown out to any NICU in Denver and he was not provided with any sort of life support.  The choice was between his parents and the doctors who said he was so premature that had they applied extreme measures and he lived, he would have had severe severe brain damage. He lived for about a day. Try that one on for size if you want to be jugdemental about abortion and the killing of another "person"!

    I don't know what to call it (none / 0) (#138)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 07:36:17 PM EST
    I wasn't judgemental about what was done, but this sort of decision gets to be between a mother and her doctors.  The baby born could not survive outside of his mother's body but we possess the medical knowledge now to have saved him and it was decided not to because he would have had no quality of life and possibly neither would his parents by spending the rest of their lives tending to him.  Is that murder?  Why isn't Operation Rescue hanging out outside delivery rooms of hospitals to gather up those doomed babies and spend their lives caring for them before someone murders them?

    Dear God (5.00 / 1) (#139)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 07:43:49 PM EST
    How about we stick with your stance on the issues kay....otherwise what are you doing around here other than walking on every carpet in the house in your muddy galoshes just because you want to?

    MT, Narius has been banned (none / 0) (#146)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Jun 02, 2009 at 12:20:15 AM EST
    at least temporarily and in deleting many of his comments, I've had to delete many of your replies. Sorry about that, but otherwise the thread would make no sense. I've gotten too many complaints about his 53 comments today to leave them all up.

    He's abused the blog. When you see a troll, blog-clogger and chatterer like that, it's better to send me an email or point it out rather than spend time refuting him -- that way your time spent responding won't go down the drain if his comments and those in reply ends up being deleted.

    Sorry that I had to delete your's, they were good ones, but without his to show what you were responding to, no one would figure out why you were writing them.


    I will from here on out (none / 0) (#149)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jun 02, 2009 at 08:45:54 AM EST
    It feels like tattling to me but narius is very good at clogging discussion and sharing of a lot of the info I get from other commenters.  I may have to make my first complaint though today if Bemused doesn't quit down rating commenters opinions in the Dr. Tiller threads.

    Now, narius, as that was my term (4.50 / 2) (#121)
    by Cream City on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 05:14:59 PM EST
    let's stick to context.  I was speaking quite specifically about a particular group of commenters whose words of hatred I witnessed on specific sites.

    I also know people who are anti-abortion and are not hate-filled people.  So what?  I wasn't commenting about them.

    Try again to divert the discourse.

    Much appreciated... (4.00 / 3) (#85)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 01:48:50 PM EST
    Alas, BTD's thread, About Dr. George Tiller, is also rife with what you describe as "drive-by trolls".

    BTW, is there a TL policy on troll ratings - by which I mean systematic low ball ratings which often involve no counter-argument and appear to be personally and/or ideologically motivated? At best, it's annoying and, at worse, it undermines the level of discourse.

    Color me surprised. (3.50 / 2) (#90)
    by Dr Molly on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 02:07:38 PM EST
    Turns out to be an uber-christian, white, free republic male.

    You know (5.00 / 2) (#100)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 03:23:48 PM EST
    I have a picture in mind of what a Christian is, you know, a generally GOOD person, charitable, wishing the best for people (And I'm actually an atheist, so it's more than a belief in God that I'm speaking of).  

    He ain't no uber-Christian.  He's just a hate-mongering fanatical terrorist.

    Religious fanatic not = Christian.


    There is a segment of people who (3.50 / 2) (#123)
    by Inspector Gadget on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 05:41:51 PM EST
    call themselves Christians simply because they own a Bible and love the easy to follow instructions: Woman shall be subservient to man, Eye for and Eye (which, I believe trumps Thou Shalt Not Kill), etc. They are often easy to spot because they apologize for themselves constantly. "Hi, my name is Joe, and I'm a Christian."

    Sorry but I'm not for killing him (none / 0) (#33)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 12:11:21 PM EST
    I will take his freedom though gladly for the rest of his life since he can't seem to be responsible for what he does with his freedom and murders others he must share society with.

    Amen (none / 0) (#76)
    by Lacey on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 01:23:10 PM EST
    There is no need to execute criminals. Doing so is nothing more than vengance. And that is not justice.

    I doubt it would change (none / 0) (#50)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 12:34:40 PM EST
    who is for what, but what it would call attention to is this horrible desire that pro-choice liberals have to want to kiss pro-life a$$ without any quid pro quo.

    And another mistake (none / 0) (#86)
    by standingup on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 01:51:42 PM EST
    is to assume that all people commenting on Talk Left are attorneys.  But hey, not too surprising given that you seem to be more interested in projecting your narrow minded thinking onto others.  

    Thanks for revealing your true thoughts.  Very enlightening and helpful in considering how much time to spend in attempting to have a discussion with you.

    Is is Ms. or Mr. Troll? (none / 0) (#140)
    by shoephone on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 10:06:00 PM EST
    You need consult a dictionary.

    From Merriam-Webster


    1 : to injure or destroy unexpectedly and treacherously
    2 : to murder (a usually prominent person) by sudden or secret attack often for political reasons

    Yeah, there is a difference between assassinations and other types of murder.

    Can our criminal justice system be trusted (none / 0) (#144)
    by Peter G on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 11:09:27 PM EST
    to handle these terrorism cases, wonders Yale Law Prof. Jack Balkin?  What if Roeder might know of other planned attacks?  Should enhanced interrogation techniques be employed to make sure?

    Balkin misses a fundamental point.... (5.00 / 1) (#147)
    by Rojas on Tue Jun 02, 2009 at 12:45:39 AM EST
    The typical "domestic terrorist" tends to act in isolated instances with no coordination or cooperation.

    Narius is banned (none / 0) (#145)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Jun 02, 2009 at 12:07:33 AM EST
    at least temporarily, I'm cleaning the thread. Thanks.