home

Phil Spector Sentence: 19 Years to Life

Phil Spector was sentenced to 19 years to life today for the death of Lana Clarkson.

His lawyer said he was wrongfully convicted:

Attorney Doron Weinberg maintained that Spector was convicted wrongly. “The evidence did not establish Mr. Spector’s guilt beyond a reasonable doubt,” the lawyer said.

The sentence included 15 years for second-degree murder, with a four year enhancement for gun possession. He showed no emotion during the sentencing.

< Who's "Wealthy" Now? | Stuart Taylor: Some May Say Sotomayor Is An Ungrateful Jerk For Criticizing Princeton >
  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft


  • Display: Sort:
    Does "Wrongly Convicted" mean (5.00 / 2) (#1)
    by Inspector Gadget on Fri May 29, 2009 at 02:59:25 PM EST
    innocent? It's hard to figure out with:

    "The evidence did not establish Mr. Spector's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt," the lawyer said.

    as the reasoning. Of course, she's basing this on her opinion and the jurors must have had a unanimous opinion that it was enough to establish guilt.

    I really hate that innocent people are in prison. But, I'm not sure I would hate knowing if guilty people who weren't fortunate enough to confuse the jury enough to establish "reasonable doubt" are in prison.


    Not necessarily (none / 0) (#4)
    by Zorba on Fri May 29, 2009 at 04:43:48 PM EST
    "Wrongly convicted" does not have to mean "Innocent."  It just may mean that the lawyer did not think that the state proved its case "beyond a reasonable doubt."  (Although I think that defense lawyers pretty much say this, if not always, at least very often.)  For that matter, a "Not Guilty" verdict doesn't necessarily mean "Innocent."  Again, it means that the state did not prove it "beyond a reasonable doubt."  Maybe we should use the term "Not Proven" instead of "Not Guilty."

    Parent
    I know many conservatives (none / 0) (#6)
    by JamesTX on Fri May 29, 2009 at 08:22:45 PM EST
    lament the confusion of "not guilty" and "innocent" (I am not directing this to you). The important thing, as always, is the context. There is supposed to be a presumption of innocence, therefore "not guilty" does entail "innocent", and it need not be qualified. There is no mechanism or process, as far as I know, for establishing innocence. That is why it is presumed. If we are not allowed to presume innocence, then those wrongfully accused have no possible way to be exonerated. If "not guilty" is read simply as "ineffective prosecution of a guilty person", then there is no way out of the vortex of prosecutorial discretion. There is no possible way to be innocent. Accusation becomes guilt.

    The idea of presumption of innocence may bother some people, and I realize it has been successfully portrayed as folly by the conservative intelligentsia. But it doesn't bother me. Not a bit. I am grateful every day I live in a country where the notion exists, at least in theory. It is quickly disappearing.

    Unfortunately, the conservative movement has fostered and perfected a very peculiar way of reasoning about this issue. I realize I am out of step, but they are just wrong. The purpose of it all was to establish authoritarianism as the underlying ethic and philosophy of social order. Different groups jumped on the bandwagon for different reasons. That is, the conservative think tanks sold the idea to different populations in terms that best appealed to their interests. Some thought that once authoritarianism was accepted as justice, they could implement a theological government (proponents of Christian theocracy). Others simply wanted to reduce the cost of incarcerating and silencing poor people, who they viewed as prone to criminality and as having been endowed with too many rights under the constitution (elitism). Others viewed too much choice and freedom among the powerless as the primary barrier to corporate profits and control of markets (plutocrats).

    Our founders recognized something very important -- an idea conservatives have spent billions trying to discredit. That idea is that government power is more dangerous than crime. Nowhere in the Constitution is a guarantee, implied or otherwise, of absolute safety from crime. Our founders understood that life is risky. They properly understood that arbitrary and capricious government is more risky than unpunished crime.

    I am sorry, but that is what I believe. And I think it is what is encoded in most of our laws, prior to the large scale attempts at revision that started with the conservative movement of Ronald Reagan. They may get away with it, but then again they may not. The game is not over yet.

    Parent

    Too much of the word game used in (none / 0) (#7)
    by Inspector Gadget on Fri May 29, 2009 at 09:12:35 PM EST
    justice is founded in the idea that there is a Winner and a Loser in every legal matter brought to trial. Something of a game. The "loser" seems intent on being able to twist their placement into something other than a loss.

    Seems to me, though, that when a guilty person is found to be guilty, and when an innocent person is found to be innocent, the truth of the matter is everyone WON.

    Parent

    I do not think that is quite right (none / 0) (#8)
    by nyjets on Fri May 29, 2009 at 10:35:15 PM EST
    It is perfectly possible for a guilty person to be found innocent of a crime by a jury. (Conversely an innocent person can be found guilty.)
    Therefore, just because a jury found someone innocent does not mean that a person is innocent of the crime. Very often it does. Very often it does not. For example, there have been numerous examples of white men being found not guilty for huting killing African-Americans when in fact they were probable guilty.

    The fact of the matter is a not guilty verdict does not necessarily exonerate the defendant. THe not guilty verdict means:

    1. One exoneration.
    2. Prosection failed to prove there case OR the defense discredited the prosection case.
    3. Jury ignored the evidence and/or the law.

    NOw, ifyou want to say that the law recognzies you as innocent then you are probable correct.

    Parent
    I thought juries returned (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by JamesTX on Sat May 30, 2009 at 03:43:57 AM EST
    verdicts of "guilty" or "not guilty". My conceptualization of the reasoning is based in how the process was taught to me as a child in public schools. My schooling was significantly prior to the conservative revolution, so it was not colored by the rhetoric that emerged during the Reagan revolution. This was even true in my home state, which was actually part of the more conservative right-wing culture. It is interesting that even conservatives saw the Constitutional rights that protected us from being jailed by the government as sacred rights -- and as good, positive things -- prior to the Reagan revolution.

    Back then, conservatives and liberals were equally proud of the system. They taught their children that Constitutional rights were good things and those rights made us different from other countries. In some other countries, we were told, the government could often jail people without proving they were guilty of anything. In some places, people were assumed to be guilty until they proved they were innocent. At that time, we were not taught the underlying assumption that our system was flawed and was failing, and rights needed to be disposed of. Rights were seen as being just, good things.

    The attitude that rights are bad things was part of the Reagan revolution. It is my understanding kids are now taught about our Constitutional rights with some negative tongue-in-cheek sarcasm. The message they are given is that Constitutional rights were a sort of "mistake", and that individual rights are a sort of bad things which just allow criminals to go free. Not much emphasis is placed on how rights protect us all from the government, or why we need such protection (e.g. power corrupts, and governments will always tend to use power abusively unless the law prohibits it).

    "Truth", at the time I was schooled, was viewed as being something which came out of a fair process of debate in a public setting, based on evidence. That is, it was something which was discovered by openly allowing all parties to present their arguments and evidence from their point of view. Truth is now considered to be something which is simply "known" by the police, and it is simply supposed to be accepted as such because the police are "good, reliable people", and because they have authority. Under conservative reasoning, whatever the police say is true is simply considered to be truth, and the value and validity of court procedures are judged in terms of whether or not the court agrees with the police. This is called authoritarianism. It is a very different way of reasoning from what I was taught as a child, and it is hard for me to get my mind around it. It also is completely at odds with the logic underlying the vast majority of our laws before Reagan.

    The authoritarian attitude has become so widely accepted that it led to the Bush presidency, which suggests some large proportion of the people actually believe the Executive branch of the government is not bound by law, and the Executive is the final arbiter of truth. The Executive can do anything it wants, simply because it has the authority. At the local level, the Executive is best represented as the police, and the police are seen as the ultimate arbiters of truth in most communities. Due process is seen as a confusing and ineffective mistake -- a sort of old-fashioned tradition that nobody knows the reason for it or the purpose of it. Constitutional rights are seen as something that simply helps criminals, as if the founders liked criminals or supported crime. Courts are expected to defer to the police version of truth, and they are criticized and hated to the extent that their decisions deviate from the pronouncements and policies of the police.

    As children, we were taught that the American system of justice was unique, and was designed to protect citizens from arbitrary and capricious attack by the government. This was all presented in the context of being a contrast to the justice system imposed on Americans by the British and the religion-dominated states before independence and the Constitution. In those systems, individuals had fewer rights, and the criminal justice system was used to silence political dissent and to attack people for religious reasons. We were taught that the fundamental ideas behind the American criminal justice process were these:

    1. If the government arrested a person for a crime, the person had the right to ask the court to order the government to release them, because all Americans are free by default, and can't legally be held against their will.

    2. If the government didn't want to release them, but wanted to punish them f