Thursday Open Thread

Here's a new open thread, all topics welcome.

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    Gen(ret) John Kelly, (5.00 / 4) (#1)
    by KeysDan on Thu Oct 19, 2017 at 03:28:54 PM EST
    Chief of Staff, has succumbed to the Book of Moron. Or, more appropriately (the Book of F..Moron).  In an emotional outburst, Kelly basked in the darkness of Trump, saying he was "stunned" that Congresswoman Wilson was listening in on the sacred phone call from Trump, who expressed his sympathy by saying to the widow  that her late husband, Sgt. La David Johnson, knew what he signed up for, but when it happens it hurts anyway. Kelly seems to be instructing the widow on what is appropriate for her, as if it was not her grief to deal with.

    Kelly implied that the Congresswoman was almost criminally eavesdropping on Mrs. Johnson's phone call, when the call was taken on a speaker phone while the vehicle was on the way to the airport to meet up with the fallen's casket.  Moreover, the Congresswoman was a friend of the fallen soldier and his family.

    Kelly is never stunned by Trump; I have never bought into the lionization of Kelly as one of the adults in the room, and if there was any further doubt about this man, refusal to take questions at the end of his weird presser, from other than reporters who couldn't say they personally knew a Gold Star Family, should clinch the deal.

    Josh Marshall, at TPM,
    states the situation well.

    For me (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Oct 19, 2017 at 03:37:06 PM EST
    The most stunning thing was the riff on the "loss of sacred things". Like women.

    Wait,  WHAT?  Did Trumps mouthpiece really just say that?


    I know (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Oct 19, 2017 at 04:45:43 PM EST
    I'm no longer sacred. I don't know how, I don't know why, I just know because General Kelly said so.

    i guess (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Oct 19, 2017 at 04:51:44 PM EST
    the idea his bosses normalization of sexual assault contributed to the loss sacredness never occurred to him.

    General Kelly (5.00 / 4) (#13)
    by KeysDan on Thu Oct 19, 2017 at 05:13:33 PM EST
    says from one of his mouths: women are sacred; and from the other mouth trash talks a Congresswoman, a gold star mother, and a widow who agrees with them. I sure hope that Kelly's sense of sacredness in women does not count just for white women.

    But, the General may, albeit inadvertently, have some honor in that he did reveal that Trump lied about what he said.  Otherwise, Kelly was making excuses for what Trump never said..defending something that never happened.  And, there were people, including him, listening in on Trump's call (which is Ok if from his side) which was Trump's "proof" that he didn't say what Kelly confirmed and justified.

    The bottom line is that Trump needs to make a condolence call to Kelly, on the loss of his dignity, self-respect, and mind.


    I just watched Kelly's remarks. (5.00 / 3) (#3)
    by caseyOR on Thu Oct 19, 2017 at 03:43:57 PM EST
    I do not understand why he felt compelled to attack Congresswoman Wilson. If he had paid the least bit of attention to the news coverage he would have known that Wilson was not eavesdropping, which is the spin Kelly gave it, but was in the car with the family and the call was on speakerphone.
    Kelly described the way he was told about his son's death. The officer who came to his door was his best friend, and fellow officer, Joe Dunford. And Dunford's words may have made sense to and brought some tiny bit of comfort to a fellow Marine. That does not mean those same words would comfort the civilian widow of a fallen service member.

    Why Kelly chose this moment to castigate all of America save those in the military escapes me. His criticisms of all other Americans, our, in his opinion, lack of respect for life (sounded like a shot at abortion supporters) and religion and women made him sound like an angry old man railing at a world that had changed while he stayed the same.

    Kelly's grief over his son's death was very apparent. There is no getting over that grief. But his decision to rail at everyone who is not military and to defend Trump, that I do not understand.


    According to Kelly (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Oct 19, 2017 at 04:41:19 PM EST
    Kelly is taking responsibility for Trump's decision to not call families, and he is who told Trump to go with "He knew what he signed up for" because that was a soldier talk he had with one of his friends after his own son was killed.....sigh

    I shouldn't be surprised that some General is going to once again blame civilian family members for not enjoying his boot camp treatments. And he's pissed that he was wrong and some families do seem to expect a call where you know their deceased soldier's name.

    I haven't seen anything this bad though since the run up to the Iraq War when commanders couldn't wait to get to war and couldn't understand after their insane speeches why 20 something wives with children in tow left auditoriums sobbing.

    It is now obvious that John Kelly lacks certain forms of social awareness and self awareness. I guess if the military intended for him to have those they would have issued those to him.


    Given that Trump is clearly incapable (5.00 / 3) (#7)
    by Anne on Thu Oct 19, 2017 at 04:22:14 PM EST
    of dealing with any situation in which raw, painful emotions are involved, it boggles my mind why anyone would think it a good idea to allow him to make condolence calls.  Or calls of any kind, really.  Or personal visits.

    Letters?  Yes, because someone else could compose them and he could sign them.

    As for Kelly, he has, at every turn, defended Trump and defended others in the Trump circle: remember his defense of Mike Flynn?  So, it doesn't surprise me that he came out swinging at everyone but his boss today, but I'm not sure he realizes how utterly he devalued his own grief on the altar of a man who is only marginally, recognizably human.

    In my mind, that he has tied himself to this dangerous and dim buffoon speaks to his own character, and it does not speak well.

    Altogether, this administration seems to be little more than a large collection of damaged, dim-witted and possibly insane people whose business plan is based on chaos designed to facilitate their voracious appetite for grifting.

    It may be time to elevate the resistance to revolution.


    Kelly said he originally told Trump (none / 0) (#9)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Oct 19, 2017 at 04:44:33 PM EST
    To not make those condolence calls because those calls are hard to make and there is nothing he could say to the families that would benefit them or help them through it.

    Kelly would have better served Trump (none / 0) (#12)
    by Anne on Thu Oct 19, 2017 at 05:10:17 PM EST
    by putting him in touch with some military spouses or children, who could have given Trump a clue about what they would want to hear in that situation.

    The real problem is, of course, that Trump is not capable of feeling or expressing empathy.  If he were, he might have recognized that what one military man heard as an expression of condolence from another military man would not be heard that way by a young mother who had just lost her husband.

    I can't even imagine him asking Melania's advice on what to say, but I can for sure imagine George and Laura and Barack and Michelle having those conversations.

    But how hard is it, really, to at least have the names of the people you're calling and the loved one lost, on a cheat sheet in front of you?  Jesus, he couldn't even come up with her name when answering questions from the media: she was "the woman, the widow."

    I hope Myeshia Johnson won't spend the rest of her life remembering the call that came at the worst moment of her life, but I fear that it's one thing that will stay with her.


    I don't know if every family needs a call from (5.00 / 2) (#22)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Oct 19, 2017 at 06:39:53 PM EST
    The President, but some do. It is part of their identity in the sacrifices the family made. I don't know where Kelly gets off suggesting that a President shouldn't make those calls except perhaps he knows the President he now serves is broken. I must also consider though that Kelly is also broken. He has enabled one President to attack another President over something that HE/KELLY now claims is sacred. And he takes no responsibility for his own sacredless actions.

    It almost seems like Kelly believes because he is a member of a Gold Star Family he can treat other Gold Star Families like shit too...and then tells them they should like it this way. It's what they signed up for.


    Kelly claimed today that (none / 0) (#25)
    by caseyOR on Thu Oct 19, 2017 at 07:09:50 PM EST
    the family does not care about a call from the president or SecDef or the commandant. The only calls a family cares about come from their deceased soldier's buddies.

    I can imagine that for some families, Kelly for example, that is true. Other families may feel differently.

    It strikes me that John Kelly, not unlike his boss, cannot comprehend any response that is different than his own. He experiences the grief and loss in a particular way so every Gold Star family must also experience it that way.


    Yes, I heard this too (none / 0) (#27)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Oct 19, 2017 at 07:59:29 PM EST
    And those were the calls that were important to Kelly, the things HE identified with. He's already admitted he's a 1%. Why does he think he understands the grieving needs of 99% of us?

    Oh yeah....and when a Gold Star Family (5.00 / 3) (#23)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Oct 19, 2017 at 06:43:03 PM EST
    Is treated like shit there should be no witnesses. It destroys the sacredness of the shitty treatment.

    There's one Trump charisteristic (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by NYShooter on Fri Oct 20, 2017 at 02:34:29 PM EST
    that's overlooked when describing the disaster-in-chief.......Sadism.

    I don't say that lightly, yet, it explains a lot. He, not only does things that hurt millions, he loves it.

    Whether it's his obvious racism, reluctant aid to hurricane victims, countless civilian deaths from his bombing orders, or beastly actions regarding immigrants, the more pain he can inflict the happier he is.

    We can't count on just Russian collusion to get rid of this monster.


    i have (none / 0) (#72)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Oct 20, 2017 at 02:53:50 PM EST
    noticed that but not specifically related to Trump. I have noticed how the entire GOP loves to inflict as much pain and suffering on Americans as they can.

    White Gold Star Family (none / 0) (#70)
    by MKS on Fri Oct 20, 2017 at 02:45:06 PM EST
    gets promise of 25K, and now a check after being shamed into following through.

    Black Gold Star Family:  Gets the "he knew what he signed up for" treatment.

    Puerto Rico gets the Trump tough-love talk.

    States that vote for Trump get hurricane relief without the tough love talk....

    Anyone see a pattern?


    Congresswoman has known family decades (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by vicndabx on Thu Oct 19, 2017 at 05:41:24 PM EST
    Wapo Link

    The deceased soldier was an alumnus of the 5,000 Role Models of Excellence Project, a mentoring program Wilson started for youths pursuing military careers among other fields. So were his brothers. One received a full scholarship to Bethune Cookman College and the other is training to become a firefighter.

    Wilson's connection to the family goes back at least one generation. She told CNN that she was the principal of a school that Johnson's father attended.

    Kelley (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by FlJoe on Thu Oct 19, 2017 at 06:05:56 PM EST
    called her an empty barrel, attacked her for making a perfectly normal political speech, all and all he was rather vicious towards her, deplorable.                              

    He was hateful (5.00 / 2) (#36)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Oct 20, 2017 at 04:09:16 AM EST
    I realize there is no perfect condolence call, I think most of us know this. If you or I had to make those calls though we would go about it carefully and considerately. We would know their names.

    And I'm stunned Kelly doubled down on the whole signing up for death. He was unquestionable for too long, he believes himself beyond reproach.

    Kelly lived in the bubble. For years he was shown minute by minute deference because he was a commissioned officer. I don't think he is transitioning into civilian work life well. And I don't think he's going to get better either. He is also too old to learn complex new tricks.

    He despises the press. He despises Congress. He despises anything who doesn't stand to attention for his new authority.

    The whole women aren't sacred thing. If he was referring to the Harvey Weinstein scandal I only have one thing to say, the Marine Corp has been the most difficult branch to end sexual assault in. At first we all thought they were doing the best at handling it, only to discover that commanders were hiding rapes and assaults AGAIN when he was active duty top brass in the Marine Corp!!!! I'd like to hear about some of his private commander to commander talks about that.


    After hearing how deeply nasty and (5.00 / 4) (#37)
    by Anne on Fri Oct 20, 2017 at 05:12:48 AM EST
    derisive he was about the Congresswoman, and given the obvious history Trump has with women - not just the Access Hollywood thing, but the multiple marriages - I interpreted the "sacredness" of women - and "life" - as being more about longing for the days when women were property and not fully equal and independent beings than about some sort of reverence.

    His zeal for Trump's immigration policies also puts the lie to his definition of the sacredness of religion, too.

    Which kind of explains for me how someone who is routinely touted as being such an exemplary human being could bring himself to work for someone who clearly isn't - at least by contemporary standards.

    It reminds us that just because someone appears to be temperamentally stable, and rhetorically fluent, doesn't guarantee that his world view and agenda are any more sound than those of the guy who often appears to be a couple hand gestures and verbal spitting away from being a raving lunatic.

    In fact, I am prepared to believe that having someone like Kelly around to lend his apparently unwavering support makes Trump more dangerous and more of a threat, and from what I've heard some of the talking heads and pundits say about Kelly's performance today, it appears that there are a lot of second thoughts coming into focus about separating John Kelly, the man who is philosophically stuck in the 1950s, from the uniform that is supposed to make him untouchable.


    Agree, Kelly is losing credibility quickly (5.00 / 4) (#38)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Oct 20, 2017 at 06:38:13 AM EST
    It can be very hard to know someone in uniform. In service they are all under the umbrella of their current CIC and it is a military. They largely do what they're told. More than once I've been surprised by who someone's retired self is :)

    Now Kelly's recollection of what Frederica Wilson at the FBI building ceremony said is possibly factually incorrect. If film footage exists it could completely destroy Kelly's  credibility.

    If we ever thought Kelly was sane though, I'm setting that aside, he's a Trumper through and through. At this point how could he be anything but?


    Voila! film footage exists (5.00 / 4) (#47)
    by MKS on Fri Oct 20, 2017 at 11:57:43 AM EST
    Kelly lied about Rep. Wilson.

    She did not brag about getting the funding.  Her speech was gracious and appropriate.

    Kelly also appears hypocritical:  It is okay for him to listen to call to the wife, but not for her family friend Rep. Wilson?


    This is what racism looks like (5.00 / 6) (#50)
    by MKS on Fri Oct 20, 2017 at 12:05:37 PM EST
    An African American Congresswoman gets blamed for doing what Kelly did--listen in on telephone conversation.

    Kelly then goes out of his way to lie about Wilson's speech two years ago.  

    Giving him the benefit of the doubt, maybe Kelly innocently misremembered the Wilson speech.  But what does that mean?  At the time of the speech, it appears Kelly internally hated Wilson, and thus ascribed to her all these negative things.....

    That is racism....the covert kind that is hard to prove....but shows its ugly head when African American lawyers and executives can't get a cab.  


    Yup! How could he have gotten the facts that (5.00 / 2) (#51)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Oct 20, 2017 at 12:15:43 PM EST

    He had rehearsed all that too! This was planned.

    The stories General Kelly tells himself.


    Wilson 2, Trump & Lickspittle 0 (5.00 / 6) (#52)
    by MKS on Fri Oct 20, 2017 at 12:18:43 PM EST
    Lie no. 1.Wilson was right that Trump said that Sgt. La David Johnson knew what he was signing up for. Trump said he never said that.  Kelly basically admitted that he did, but tried to provide cover by saying he had recounted to Trump his conversation with Dunford about his own son.

    So, Trump lied, and Wilson told the truth.

    Lie no. 2.  Kelly says Wilson bragged about securing the funding.  Wrong.

    I am really fired up about this. Especially because the press, and that means you, Tweety, are kissing Trump and Lickspittle's arse.  They never learn.


    What should we believe from (none / 0) (#55)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Oct 20, 2017 at 01:01:01 PM EST
    John Kelly yesterday?

    Yes, Kelly's (5.00 / 2) (#53)
    by KeysDan on Fri Oct 20, 2017 at 12:31:28 PM EST
    reference to the 2015 ceremony marking the new FBI field office building in Miramar was an inexact comparison laced with a racially and misogynistically tinged expression of personal animus.  

    The occasion was not a memorial service, but the dedication of a new building named for FBI agents killed in a 1986 shootout with bank robbers south of Miami.

    Money for the building was approved prior to Dr. Wilson's election to Congress.  Her contribution, acknowledged by the main speaker, then FBI Director Comey, was to help enact a law naming the building after the fallen agents, Gregan and Dove.

     Kelly could not even get the amount of money straight, saying Rep. Wilson claimed to have called up President Obama and got the $20 million to build the building. The building actually cost almost cost $ 194 million.

    Kelly will, no doubt, become a new hero to the base and, even, some of Trump's very fine people. But, he is really like the guy who cleans up after the elephant in the parade, and would never quit and give up his satisfying career in show business.  And, this is probably elephant clean up libel.


    Wilson was viewed (5.00 / 4) (#54)
    by MKS on Fri Oct 20, 2017 at 12:37:50 PM EST
    favorably for getting the building named after the FBI agents--in part because she only had a month to get a bill through Congress to do it.

    The picture of a Kelly sitting there at the speech bitter and resentful of this Black woman being viewed favorably makes him look very, very small.  A perfect guy for Trump.

    Basically, we are all screwed:  Kelly will not apply the brakes to Trump--he will enable him.


    Lawrence O'Donnell is tearing Kelly (5.00 / 4) (#30)
    by caseyOR on Thu Oct 19, 2017 at 09:14:46 PM EST
    to pieces tonight for Kelly's attacks on Congresswoman Wilson.

    Totally laying Kelly out.


    Yes, he is (none / 0) (#31)
    by MKS on Thu Oct 19, 2017 at 09:18:26 PM EST
    Kelly is looking really petty--an enabler of Trump, not the great hope of rationality in the White House.

    Josh (none / 0) (#16)
    by FlJoe on Thu Oct 19, 2017 at 05:54:00 PM EST
    has put in brutally stark terms
    And that's the thing: Donald Trump poisons everything. It's like an abuser with a captive family; he poisons everything, inflames everything, destroys and degrades anything in his path for his own ends. No one gets out in one piece. He's poison. He's just poison. There's no other way to put it. He hurts the country every moment he's in office.

    And Charlie Pierce chimes in: (5.00 / 2) (#17)
    by Anne on Thu Oct 19, 2017 at 06:04:29 PM EST
    Everything and everybody this president* touches goes bad from the inside out. And it doesn't matter to me whether people volunteered to work for him or not. In Oliver Stone's Nixon, there's a great scene on the Key Bridge at night where Ed Harris's Howard Hunt warns a very tremulous John Dean, played by David Hyde-Pierce. Nixon, Hunt tells Dean, "is the darkness reaching out for the darkness in everyone." That was true, but this is what we know now: in this, Nixon was a rank amateur.



    i have not really (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Oct 19, 2017 at 06:12:29 PM EST
    worried much until lately.  things have the feeling of spiraling out of controll.  im really starting to think this could end very very badly.

    I've (5.00 / 2) (#24)
    by FlJoe on Thu Oct 19, 2017 at 06:57:37 PM EST
    had that feeling since January a continuous dumpster fire is no way to run a country. The scary part is there is no guide to when we reach some kind of critical mass where either the madness stops or becomes complete.

    In case you haven't noticed tRump and his staff always fan the flames of divisiveness, always. Take your pick, Charlottesville, NFL protests, Puerto Rico.... they never back down, instead pouring gas on on every flashpoint in American society big and small. Exactly what the Russian trolls are trying to do BTW.


    yeah (none / 0) (#26)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Oct 19, 2017 at 07:11:54 PM EST
    ive noticed.  

    rachel did a segment last highlighting the fact this whole gold star flap seem deliberate to distract anyone from talking about Niger.

    at the time i sort of thought she was fanning flames of her own but the more we hear about this thing as the day went on i started thinkng she might have a point.

    its very strange the way the news of this has come out.  remember the question that launched the gold star flap was not about that.  it was just a question about why he has not spoken about the four deaths in any way on any forum.

    McCain, chairman of armed services, threatened today to subpoena the white house if they dont start talking about what happened and why.

    the fact that Kelly came out guns blazing seems like a bad sign.  plus the "other generals" were out today polishing the turd.

    very curious.


    Yes (none / 0) (#28)
    by FlJoe on Thu Oct 19, 2017 at 08:23:42 PM EST
    I did notice the question had nothing to do with calls to the families. I really think tRump mis-interpreted the question and thought he was being attacked for ignoring the fallen, leading to his default position of proclaiming himself a winner and Obama a loser. For the most part, tRump does not plan his distractions, they just come naturally so to speak.

    Not to say, that in this political/media environment it doesn't work more often than not. In this case I think the tangential firestorm he created has actually amplified the interest in the Niger story.

    Before this flap it was pretty much gone from the news. I'm sure any of the powers that be  interested in spiking this story would much prefer an anodyne statement about "honoring the fallen" and ongoing "Pentagon investigations", don't call us we'll call you.  Then on to the next bonfire.



    There was chapter 2 (none / 0) (#29)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Oct 19, 2017 at 08:57:56 PM EST
    Of the diversion/distraction tonight.  It's worth watching.

    I (none / 0) (#40)
    by FlJoe on Fri Oct 20, 2017 at 08:39:40 AM EST
    think  it is all a distraction from this Trump fails to implement Russia sanctions he signed into law He is nothing short of a full time agent for Putin, he is actively trying to destroy this country.

    Breaking news (5.00 / 2) (#49)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 20, 2017 at 12:02:55 PM EST
    The attack in Niger is the result of a massive intelligence failure.

    Is it better to argue about the phone calls to gold stars?

    We will see.


    Africom has been deliberately short staffed (none / 0) (#75)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Oct 20, 2017 at 03:37:38 PM EST
    Short equipment, for years. We already spend so much money on military.

    not really what i meant (none / 0) (#21)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Oct 19, 2017 at 06:23:09 PM EST
    i guess i mean i always knew thing COULD end badly and im beginning the think they will.

    I (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by FlJoe on Thu Oct 19, 2017 at 06:17:53 PM EST
    love this
    That's how he gets absolved. That's how he always gets absolved. There's always somebody willing to step up and push their soul to the middle of the table for him to gamble with and, when he loses, because he always loses at the game of being human, he reneges on the bet because that's what he always does.

    Charles at his cynical, metaphoric best


    Wilson was right (none / 0) (#32)
    by MKS on Thu Oct 19, 2017 at 09:19:17 PM EST
    Kelly pretty much admitted she accurately recounted the conversation.

    ... on a private conversation in which he was listening on the other line.

    "Is nothing sacred?" pleaded the former Marine general who presently works for a man who both chastised John McCain for having been a POW and bragged about grabbing women by what Monty Python once refereed to as "naughty bits."

    Indeed, he had contemplated what had come to pass and his present circumstances this morning while walking amongst the gravestones at Arlington National Cemetery -- that is, until the ghosts of my father and other residents yelled, "Get the hell of our lawn, you ingratiating kiss-ass!"

    Startled, he looked up suddenly and glanced around. And seeing nothing, he let out an audible sigh and took his leave of Arlington's denizens because indeed, nothing is sacred any more.



    W speaks (5.00 / 2) (#4)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Oct 19, 2017 at 03:49:48 PM EST
    Those of us who never had very much good to say about W should give some credit where it's due..

    Yes, I give (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by KeysDan on Thu Oct 19, 2017 at 04:16:07 PM EST
    President Bush great credit for this speech.  It was very good and much needed.  The dangers of the Trump Administration to the country and our constitution are so profound that we can only welcome Mr. Bush's words.  Of course, Mr. Bush has his history and own damage to contend with, but we need all the voices and alliances that can be mustered.  It would be good, if every past president publicly associated himself with President Bush's speech or presented one of his own.

    the only other living past presidents (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Oct 19, 2017 at 04:20:37 PM EST
    except his father who is probably to ill are democrats.

    that would be good but it would not have the same weight.


    So...the Richard Spencer speech didn't (5.00 / 2) (#14)
    by Anne on Thu Oct 19, 2017 at 05:25:22 PM EST
    go exactly how Spencer probably hoped:

    White nationalist heckled at University of Florida, where protesters outnumbered supporters:

    Amid the heavy presence of police on the University of Florida campus, white nationalist leader Richard Spencer got heckled for more than 30 minutes Thursday afternoon as he tried to deliver remarks and answer questions in front of a crowd of mostly protesters.


    It's not clear Spencer ever got the chance to even start his scripted speech before the UF crowd because so many protesters repeatedly told him and his allies to "go home" and chanted, "Say it loud, say it clear, Nazis are not welcome here."

    Spencer responded by telling them that he wasn't going home, and called their response "pathetic" and childish for refusing to engage him in debate. He argued they were giving him and his white nationalist movement ammunition by shouting him down.

    Spencer was later ridiculed during a question-and-answer period. One person asked him what it felt like to be punched in the face or what he's still doing at the university when so many students had shown up to oppose him.

    Inside UF's Curtis M. Phillips Center for the Performing Arts auditorium, those opposing Spencer outnumbered those backing the white nationalist.

    There's more at the link.

    And now video of Wilson's FBI dedication speech (5.00 / 2) (#43)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Oct 20, 2017 at 10:58:38 AM EST
    Has surfaced

    John Kelly Lies!

    Fake (none / 0) (#44)
    by FlJoe on Fri Oct 20, 2017 at 11:11:24 AM EST
    news obviously.

    The coverage of this (none / 0) (#45)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 20, 2017 at 11:17:23 AM EST
    Has been a lot better that it could have been.  WOULD have been a few years ago.   Trump/Kelly, living as they do in the past, assumed a "respected general" talking personally about this will shut it right down.

    Sorry,  wrong again.

    Last night barry McCaffrey and Jack Jacobs did all they could to respect the service and said he really should, and should have, just stfu about the congress woman.

    I'm am a silver lining guy.  I admit it.

    The SL here is Kelly has exploded the myth he was anything but a yes man.  Window dressing for the apocalypse.

    I mentioned yesterday things seemed to be spiraling out of control.  Then there was Bush, Obama and McCain.

    There is a gathering of every surviving president for a disaster relief event soon.  We will hear more I think.

    I think others see spiraling out of control and that makes me feel better.


    I am really stunned though (5.00 / 2) (#46)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Oct 20, 2017 at 11:33:02 AM EST
    Just LIED, not a little....A LOT! At a podium, in front of sacred God and everyone. Bahahaha

    What has this guy gotten away with in the past?


    And now Kelly triples down (5.00 / 2) (#56)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Oct 20, 2017 at 01:16:23 PM EST
    And sayes Rep Wilson is all hat no cattle, just in case we didn't understand what an empty barrel is.

    Sarah says if we want to get in a debate with a 4 star Marine Corp General that's highly inappropriate? Who do these people think they are?

    Kelly now says it was comments Wilson made (5.00 / 2) (#57)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Oct 20, 2017 at 01:18:53 PM EST
    Outside the speech that he was referring to......sigh....my God it just isn't going to end.

    Move the goalpost (none / 0) (#62)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Oct 20, 2017 at 02:08:17 PM EST
    and make up some more lies. Kelly is a good conservative when it comes to all that.

    Outside the speech (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by MKS on Fri Oct 20, 2017 at 02:16:36 PM EST
    makes no sense.....First, Kelly was clear it was the speech....

    Second, the supposed reason that Wilson's comments made Kelly mad was that they occurred at the ceremony honoring the FBI agents.  Comments at a different time do not fit in the category of usurping the dedication.....

    So, just another lie......Reminds me of Trump saying that thousands in New Jersey cheered on 9-11.   They will always say the proof is out there but just not discovered yet...


    Yeah, he was clear (none / 0) (#67)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Oct 20, 2017 at 02:25:50 PM EST
    After she made those horrible show boating remarks she then sat down (so she was standing and addressing) and they couldn't believe it. They were all stunned.

    Kelly is so far off the deep end (none / 0) (#66)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Oct 20, 2017 at 02:24:12 PM EST
    Let's see...recent Generals who lost it?

    Tommy Franks and his wife that he took everywhere and they had to give a security clearance to :)

    Uhhhm..oh yeah...Bill Cody and "The Deep Attack"

    Flynn is a freaking traitor

    McChrystal...sigh, Petraeus....sigh, Allen/socialites....sigh, McMaster....sigh, Kelly....sigh

    I'm only leaving 20 lesser Generals out. But don't be questioning our Generals


    Is Kelly in the (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by KeysDan on Fri Oct 20, 2017 at 05:19:03 PM EST
    position of chief of staff as a general?  Kelly is a retired general; the title of chief of staff was initiated by Nixon, before that, it was appointments secretary or something similar. Most chiefs of staff have been civilians, bringing their particular experience and expertise to the work. It seems to me that Kelly brings to the job a military background, but should not be considered as in a military position.  

    In any event, Kelly should resign. He is, at best, as they often say...a distraction to the grand agenda of Trump.  With his credibility shot with every one but the deplorables, he is, to whatever extent he ever was, ineffective.


    And Lara Trump is a liar, too (5.00 / 2) (#60)
    by Towanda on Fri Oct 20, 2017 at 01:30:50 PM EST
    She said that she had read a transcript of the call to the grieving wife and family (and Congresswoman Wilson) -- but Huckabee Sanders now says that there is no transcript.

    The question not asked was why Lara Trump -- and spouse Eric, who said something similar on another topic -- who work for the campaign were in the White House, allegedly reading office records.

    Somebody is lying there too (none / 0) (#61)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Oct 20, 2017 at 02:00:59 PM EST
    someone is lying (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by KeysDan on Fri Oct 20, 2017 at 02:14:54 PM EST
    But who
    ...all of them, katie.

    I think it is Huckabee Sanders (none / 0) (#65)
    by MKS on Fri Oct 20, 2017 at 02:18:55 PM EST
    that is lying.....She is better at it than Eric's wife....Or at least has more practice....

    I think if pressed, Sanders would say it was just a "summary" but not a transcript.

    They don't even care if they get caught lying:  The base will believe them no matter what.


    One word (non-political) tonight! (none / 0) (#33)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Oct 19, 2017 at 09:54:47 PM EST

    And two words for my Dodgers: (none / 0) (#35)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Oct 19, 2017 at 10:16:56 PM EST
    ENRIQUE HERNANDEZ! - who had 3 home runs and 7 RBIs in tonight's 11-1 Game 5 rout of the Cubs.

    World Series, baby!


    Better than Kirk Gibson (none / 0) (#59)
    by MKS on Fri Oct 20, 2017 at 01:28:46 PM EST
    well, maybe...

    THAT'S IT!!! (none / 0) (#39)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Oct 20, 2017 at 08:20:34 AM EST
    One is a President, one goes to his grave breathing the rarefied air of a US General. This family is burying a Sargeant.

    APOLOGIZE! DO IT NOW! Neither one of you loses a damn thing. HIS CHILDREN ARE WATCHING!!!

    Apologize for what, to whom, and why? (5.00 / 3) (#41)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Oct 20, 2017 at 09:30:39 AM EST
    Sorry, but "apologize" isn't in Trump's vocabulary. And after yesterday's shockingly disgraceful performance, in which Gen. Kelly apparently didn't even care if he had his facts in order, I very seriously doubt that it's in that f---ing jarhead's lexicon, either. No apologies, no regrets, no surrender, and take no prisoners. Yeah, that's the ticket.

    The only way these guys are going down is in flames.


    you are just unhappy (5.00 / 3) (#42)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 20, 2017 at 09:32:23 AM EST
    about no longer being "sacred".  protected, dominated, kept pregnant and in the kitchen and for the days when you spoke when you were spoken to and worked outside he home only in the limited positions your male betters thought you could handle.

    but seriously,  what that little speech said mostly to me was that Kelly is 100% onboard with the idea of MAGA.  the delusional fixation on returing this country to a fictional past that never was and only lives in the selective memory of straight white men.  

    generals especially i would think.


    Man (5.00 / 3) (#58)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Oct 20, 2017 at 01:22:17 PM EST
    Kelly totally told us who he is in that speech and it was not pretty.

    It has gotten so ugly these days that people don't even realize they are sounding just like Nazis. I got into a discussion with a friend about the confederate statues and I said WTF are you trying to say? We had Nazis marching around them and you're putting up on Facebook the same memes the Nazis have been. He was horribly upset. I said you have to start telling the truth and quit hiding behind garbage like a kid wearing his pants too low. Anyway he unfriended me but at this point I'm ready to clear all the Trumpsters out of my facebook friend file. I'm replacing them with people from Indivisible.


    From (none / 0) (#48)
    by FlJoe on Fri Oct 20, 2017 at 11:58:59 AM EST
    the "many fine people files" 3 men charged with attempted homicide following shooting after Spencer speech
    Shortly before 5:30 p.m., it was reported that a silver Jeep stopped to argue with a group of protesters and began threatening, offering Nazi salutes and shouting chants about Hitler to the group that was near the bus stop.

    During the altercation, Tenbrink produced a handgun while the Fears brothers encouraged him to shoot at the victims. Tenbrink fired a single shot at the group which thankfully missed the group and struck a nearby building.

    "Inappropriate" to question Kelly (none / 0) (#69)
    by Yman on Fri Oct 20, 2017 at 02:36:51 PM EST
    So says Sarah Slanders, when asked about the video proving the General's attack on Congresswoman was false.

    "If you want to go after General Kelly, that is up to you. If you want to get into a debate with a four-star Marine general, I think that is something highly inappropriate."

    Wow. The rabbit hole grows deeper still.

    Miss Huckabee Sanders, (none / 0) (#71)
    by KeysDan on Fri Oct 20, 2017 at 02:47:19 PM EST
    in her attempt to valorize the general (and the class of four star generals), seems to be edging toward fascism.

    Seems (none / 0) (#73)
    by FlJoe on Fri Oct 20, 2017 at 03:23:34 PM EST
    to be?  This country may not be there quite yet, but this WH blasted way beyond the Godwin belt ages ago.

    A Marine general.. (none / 0) (#81)
    by jondee on Fri Oct 20, 2017 at 05:59:08 PM EST
    it's as bad as spitting on one of those Rhode Island-sized flags you see at football games. Even daring to Debate Kelly.

    Sanders sounds like she'd be happy living under a Latin American military junta from the seventies.


    The week that right wing (none / 0) (#74)
    by KeysDan on Fri Oct 20, 2017 at 03:32:20 PM EST
    nut jobs are pining about the golden days of yore, when women were sacred, and that old timey religion was flying high,  no one took a knee. and AIDS patients conveniently, and cost-effectively, died.  

     And, now comes roaring out of the past,the lovely Betty Price, a George State Representative and wife of the disgraced Tom, who, apparently, had some thinking time while flying around the world on the taxpayer's dime with her insider trading (alleged) husband, and recently canned Sec of HHS.  

    At a Georgia House Commission on Health, Betty asked for advise on legal methods to control the spread of HIV these days, such as quarantine and surveillance of partners. And, to manage costs.

     Betty, who like her husband, Tom, is a physician, so she is aware of all the medical advances since 1986 that allow HIV people to live longer, healthier lives.

    But, her awareness does not seem to come up roses:  "It seems to me to be almost frightening the number of people who are living that are potential carriers...not carriers, with potential to spread. Whereas, in the past they died more readily and at that  point are not posing a risk." True enough, the dead pose a lesser risk. And, treatment costs are more manageable.

    Betty Price also seems to have missed some continuing medical education credits, putting her medical license at risk.  Transmission of the AIDS virus is not only communicable through sexual intimacy, but also, through drug use, particularly, the sharing of needles.  Betty could check on that with Mike Pence, who found a major HIV outbreak in southern Indiana after he slow-walked a needle exchange program because God.  

    holy hell (none / 0) (#76)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 20, 2017 at 03:49:55 PM EST
    Way (none / 0) (#79)
    by FlJoe on Fri Oct 20, 2017 at 05:03:18 PM EST
    way beyond the belt. This is the ugliness you are afraid of, while the tRumpster fires blaze this kind of talk gets normalized and actually implemented.

    This was (none / 0) (#78)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Oct 20, 2017 at 04:39:43 PM EST
    talked about in my indivisible group. It just seems to get worse every year and the more control Republicans get over the state. We're working to change it but it is going to be a long slog I'm afraid. At some point all this nonsense is going to make businesses start leaving GA.

    And I just found out that the person suing all the universities in order to get the Spencer Nazi a speaking gig lives here in GA.


    Everything's nuts now (none / 0) (#77)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Oct 20, 2017 at 04:36:09 PM EST
    Phil Mudd just said we need to stop this. Everyone needs to go to a 2 for 1 happy hour and let Ladavid be honored properly and buried.

    Then Wolf Blitzer says, "We will return to discuss all of this more".