Quote Of The Day

Kevin Drum:

Is lefty obsession with the public option going to torpedo Dems in 2010?

Wow. People should not care about issues because that might hurt someone's electoral chances? Wow.

Speaking for me only

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    Is the Democratic Congress's focus (5.00 / 8) (#1)
    by MO Blue on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 08:38:45 AM EST
    on writing legislation that meets the specifications of Walls St., the insurance industry and pharma etc. going to torpedo Dems in 2010?

    Yes it can! (5.00 / 4) (#7)
    by Salo on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 09:02:11 AM EST
    And it ought to do so.

    I wish. (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by Dr Molly on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 12:06:21 PM EST
    If only the American people had the will and the spine to kick the bums out and go for something radically different - you know, like in their own interest.

    What's the point? (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by jbindc on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 08:38:47 AM EST
    Why elect them if they don't stand for Dem principles or do what the voters want?

    What's the point is right... (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by kdog on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 09:01:49 AM EST
    cue Chinaski....

    "The difference between a democracy and a dictatorship is that in a democracy you vote first and take orders later; in a dictatorship you don't have to waste your time voting."

    And brainiacs like Drum are more concerned about the Dems chances in '10 than we the peoples chances in '10...sun god help us.


    How (5.00 / 2) (#3)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 08:45:06 AM EST
    was Nov 2008 a win by any stretch of the imagination?

    How? (none / 0) (#32)
    by prittfumes on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 11:44:53 AM EST
    America "redeemed" itself.

    well it has been a bit (none / 0) (#37)
    by Socraticsilence on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 10:02:40 PM EST
    muted but lets see:
    Pullback in Iraq
    The various bill signings (you know adding millions of Children to CHIP, signing the whole pay discrimination thing, etc.)
    Getting Sontamayor on the court
    Improving our image around the world (seems small but its not- if America can maintain a strong image it helps in negotiations, fighting terror, etc.)
    Moving to Close Gitmo

    What'll it cost me and what'll I get? (5.00 / 2) (#14)
    by katiebird on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 09:33:52 AM EST
    What'll it cost me and what'll I get? -- that's the focus of my obsessive interest.  And in spite of reading every article on the subject I see - I don't have any idea at all.

    I would RATHER a public option (whatever the cost & whatever you call it) just so I don't have to pay extortion to a private insurance company.

    But even more - I'd like it to cost something less than 25% of my income.  Which is what we're paying now.  

    Me?  I don't care at all if that obsession - and the obsession of others - torpedoes the chances of Democrats in 2010.  At this point they are a useless drag on my HOPE for Universal Health Care. (Please delete this if it's too off-topic)

    Why on earth would Drum think... (5.00 / 2) (#23)
    by lambert on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 09:44:22 AM EST
    ... "the left" is advocating [a|the] [strong|robust|triggered]? public [health insurance]? [option|plan]? He needs to get out more...

    Heh (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 09:46:28 AM EST
    True dat.

    That's the Centrist position.

    But Drum and his fellow wonks are all Center Right.


    Wouldn't it be wonderful if the (5.00 / 2) (#25)
    by MO Blue on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 09:55:06 AM EST
    so called "lefties" were as focused and as powerful as Drum implies.

    But then it is so much easier to blame the "lefties" for Democratic failures than blame the crappy legislation that is being written by corporate interests, the Blue Dogs and incorporating Republican ideas to appease Snowe.    


    Interesting that Kevin frames the (5.00 / 5) (#30)
    by Anne on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 10:39:44 AM EST
    question that way; I would be more inclined to ask, "will the Democratic Congress' failure to heed the will of the people on issue after issue torpedo Dems in 2010?"

    But that would put the blame on the Congress, where it belongs, instead of on us intransigent "lefties," who just won't shut up and go away.

    Um at this point (none / 0) (#38)
    by Socraticsilence on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 10:03:57 PM EST
    the "will of the people" is a bit hard to discern on Healthcare reform.

    Yup (3.50 / 2) (#10)
    by domer5000 on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 09:28:19 AM EST
    Enacting one of the most complex pieces of legislation in the past forty years isn't for the faint of heart.

    This is rather ironic (none / 0) (#4)
    by MO Blue on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 08:59:41 AM EST
    Our new poll suggests that liberal unhappiness with Barack Obama is still largely anecdotal and not very widespread. His approval rating with liberal Democrats is 95%, with only 3% disapproving of him.

    On health care 88% of voters in that group say they're with Obama and only 7% are opposed. We simply are not seeing any broad evidence of push back toward him from the left for not advocating for single payer. link

    I find those poll results rather depressing but they seem to disbute Drum's talking point.

    You misunderstand (5.00 / 2) (#9)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 09:27:44 AM EST
    Obama is not running in 2010 so that poll is meaningless to the people who are running in 2010.

    There the Dem approval numbers are scary for Dems in 2010.


    It is somewhat relevant (none / 0) (#12)
    by jbindc on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 09:29:55 AM EST
    Because people who are unhappy with the D party are going to look at the top of the D's - Obama.  If they are not happy with him, chances are they will not be happy with D's downticket.

    He is very much on the ballot, regardless if his name is actually there or not.


    In the Open Left thread MoBlue links to (5.00 / 2) (#16)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 09:34:47 AM EST
    there is a great comment - "If only the Czar knew."

    Approving of the President is not the same thing as going out to vote for Congress in an off year election.


    But (none / 0) (#19)
    by jbindc on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 09:37:11 AM EST
    Disapproving of the president and the job he's done with this Congress, certainly could make people go vote for R's.

    Nah (5.00 / 5) (#21)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 09:38:46 AM EST
    Dems staying home is the real threat here.

    You're forgetting (none / 0) (#31)
    by jbindc on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 10:42:38 AM EST
    Independents - who WILL affirmatively vote for Republicans.

    Are you speaking for yourself? (none / 0) (#34)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 12:48:13 PM EST
    'Cause you sure as sh*t aren't speaking for this independent.  

    This one either... (none / 0) (#35)
    by kdog on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 01:03:43 PM EST
    maybe if Ron Paul got the nomination...but other than that its 3rd party or no vote.

    The second paragraph states that (none / 0) (#15)
    by MO Blue on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 09:33:56 AM EST
    88% of voters in the self identified liberal group support Obama's health care plan and only 7% are opposed.

    Basically I have a minority opinion that jobs not health care will be the major issue in 2010. People are extremely discontented with what is going on economically and it will be a anti-incumbent election IMO.


    Well (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 09:35:27 AM EST
    Given the small number who identify as "liberal," not sure the po9ll means all that much in that sense.

    Open Left won't open for me (none / 0) (#26)
    by Inspector Gadget on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 10:16:08 AM EST
    Think that's a sign?

    That poll has zero value without a very specific detailing of how many polled, demographic, and question asked. To get those numbers, there is no way it wasn't designed for those numbers.


    Here's the main page of PPP (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by jbindc on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 10:20:34 AM EST
    I can't get the poll to open on my computer (it's a PDF), but maybe you can.

    Middle - left hand side (Dec 7)



    Thanks (none / 0) (#29)
    by Inspector Gadget on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 10:37:26 AM EST

    Looked for, but did not find, the numbers (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by Anne on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 09:33:26 AM EST
    behind the numbers in the PPP poll, so I don't think they can simply be taken at face value; there's more info in the Gallup poll, but there's something about the numbers that just doesn't seem right to me.

    Perhaps the polling experts can weigh in...

    What's kind of interesting to me is the appearance of the term "liberal," both in the polling and in Bowers' analysis; considering that "liberal" is a term we allowed the right to intimidate us into banning from the Democratic vocabulary, I'm not at all sure the self-identification allocations are accurate enough to draw the conclusions stated.

    And I'm not sure the polls are an indication of Obama's approval rating, as much as they are a commentary on just how little most of the public understands, not just about the reform effort, but Obama's role in it.


    This part a agree with 100% (none / 0) (#18)
    by MO Blue on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 09:35:48 AM EST
    a commentary on just how little most of the public understands, not just about the reform effort, but Obama's role in it.

    I think the public understands the basic facts (none / 0) (#36)
    by BackFromOhio on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 06:51:34 PM EST
    about healthcare legislation -- that the public's needs are not a priority, to wit the very low polling numbers for Congress, with polling numbers for Dems in Congress having declined recently.  

    PPP is a Dem pollster (none / 0) (#20)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 09:38:04 AM EST
    Earnest and honest, but also not the best imo.

    I particularly think they have a problem with their LV screen (not unusual in automated polling.)

    I do not know if the LV is involved here. Not really that interested in the poll frankly.

    Off year elections are base elections and polling for them is notoriously difficult.

    Intensity is so important and so hard to poll.


    Note, However, (none / 0) (#11)
    by The Maven on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 09:29:23 AM EST
    something that Bowers touches upon a bit later on in his piece, noting that a substantial minority of liberals now do not also self-identify themselves as Democrats.  Certainly, based on anecdotal observations in person and via the blogosphere, it does seem that a fair percentage of people who would call themselves liberals have said at some point during 2009 something along the lines of, "I don't really consider myself a Democrat anymore," because of what Obama or Congress (or both) have done.  Once those disaffected former Dems are removed from the equation, it's a lot easier to see how to get to a 95-3 approval rating.

    He's a normal post ideological (none / 0) (#5)
    by Salo on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 09:01:02 AM EST
    Kinda guy. You know the one who David Brookes warned us about.

    I don't think he meant that they (none / 0) (#8)
    by inclusiveheart on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 09:15:29 AM EST
    should not care.  I think he meant that they should have shut up a long time ago and taken what they were given.  Which is worse, imo.

    To be fair, or (none / 0) (#28)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 10:26:26 AM EST
    at least accurate, Drum has never thought the public option was useful enough to be worth bothering with.  His take on health care reform, or even health insurance reform, has been pretty much out to lunch from the beginning.

    He has it backwards (none / 0) (#22)
    by jackson on Fri Dec 11, 2009 at 09:40:59 AM EST
    Froim polling data, the public option is popular -- apparently the only popular part of an unpopular health care bill.  The effect of dropping the public option will be a further decline in enthusiasm among core voters.  Independent voters already are alienated, adn will be moreso.  It's time too drop back 10 and punt.  We need to start over with a simplifed health care bill centered on a public option -- preferably a bill that isn't more than a couple of hndred pages, max -- and in the meantime, perhaps pay a little attention to an actual program, rather than rhetoric, to jobs.