Monday Morning Open Thread

A hectic day after a long weekend.

The news is filled with Tiger Woods.

The Village blogs are getting the pom poms out.

I've got the Game of the Decade! on my mind.

This is an Open Thread.

< Tiger Woods 9/11 Call And Here Comes Gloria | Against The Excise Tax >
  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft

  • Display: Sort:
    Chelsea Clinton ENGAGED to (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by Inspector Gadget on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 09:10:43 AM EST
    her long-time boyfriend!! And, what a darling couple they are :)

    Nice to start with some good news today.

    I think it's particularly sweet ... (none / 0) (#72)
    by Peter G on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 02:59:54 PM EST
    that they waited (several years) to get married until his father, my former state Democratic Party chair, finished his prison sentence for fraud.

    Best Game: (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by hairspray on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 09:12:36 AM EST
    Stanford versus Notre Dame.  I love these local college games.

    Roll Tide !!!!!! (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by SouthernFriedDem on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 09:37:03 AM EST
    If the Village blogs (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 09:46:29 AM EST
    are getting the poms poms out it's looking like they are going to be doing a big face plant when Taibbi's new Obama article hits the mainstream.

    Village (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 10:05:20 AM EST
    blogs raising pom poms means that you and I are getting ready to be pushed off the cliff. These people would have told the Titanic to drive faster into the iceberg.

    Did you read that thing on (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 10:18:35 AM EST
    Taibbi's blog about the Hamilton Project?  We are so F#cked!

    No (none / 0) (#31)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 10:22:06 AM EST
    but you've piqued my curiousity. I'm going to google it.

    Something that Brookings started (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 10:28:35 AM EST
    Rubin and friends......and Obama was the only Senator to attend the launch of the Hamilton project. Here is a link to the blog post, follow the link to Jonathan Schwarz at the end of the post for the launch of the Hamilton Project.

    funny thanksgiving story. (5.00 / 3) (#12)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 09:52:08 AM EST

    I recently had a (sort of) relative pass away. I say sort of because he was officially the uncle of my brother in law. very nice old man. I only met him a couple of times and I dont think I was ever in his house so I was sort of unprepared for what followed.
    I knew the old guy had a little money but I was unprepared for him to have actual taste.
    when I got there my sister was all like, "I am so overwhelmed. I dont know what to do with all this stuff. Maybe you want some of it!" so she takes me around. there are boxes and boxes of stuff and some of the things peeking out are peaking my interest. so, she takes me to a closet and swings the door open and says, "you want any of this stuff?' there was a whole closet of silver. like real silver tea sets, candle holders, chaffing dishes plus things I have no idea what they are for. I said, "are you kidding me? of course I want it but do you know how much this stuff is worth?" she didnt care. she didnt want to polish it (wtf?!) and she didnt want any of his other relatives to get any of it (long story)
    so I found myself coming home with an SUV full of antique silver, several pieces of art that I really like and all kinds of little knick knacks and gue-gaws that I love.
    totally unexpected.  hope everyone had a thanksgiving as happy.
    so lets all raise one to Uncle Doyle. if I had know what great taste you had I would have tried harder to get to know you.

    My Grandmother (5.00 / 2) (#29)
    by CST on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 10:20:39 AM EST
    Is moving soon from her retirement community to a more "assisted living" community.  She will still have her own living space but she will no longer have to cook and she will be closer to her friends.  Since my grandfather died she has been slowly planning the transition.  All this means that she is clearing out the basement in her existing home.  Everything is up for grabs by whoever wants to take it.  I think at this point her kids have what they want, which means it's the grandkids turn, and there are only 5 of us.  

    I am pretty excited to take a look around, especially at the art.  My grandparents did a lot of travelling, since my grandfather was in the military and also had the means to travel after he retired.  I am particularly excited about the Chinese scrolls, since I hear there are a dozens of them and they have just been sitting there for decades unclaimed and unappreciated.


    wow (none / 0) (#37)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 10:32:24 AM EST
    and Im sure all she would want is that they be with someone who loves and appreciates them.

    the whole experience was sobering for me.  it made me realize that I need to make a will.  and not only that, I need to let the people know who will be dealing with the stuff what is worth something and what is not.  I have accumulated quite a lot of stuff over the years and not all of it is obviously valuable (garuda being a notable example). when I had all thaty silver stacked around my living room when I came back I sort of felt like the grendels mother in beowulf sitting on my treasure lined cave.

    I basically spent the whole holiday playing antiques roadshow.  looking up artists and porcelain and glass makers on the internet.  I think doyle would be glad someone was trying to find out what the stuff was worth.  my sister said his only instruction was that he "didnt want the stuff to end up in a yard sale".


    Absolutely (none / 0) (#45)
    by CST on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 10:52:26 AM EST
    I spent the weekend finalizing my apt by finally getting around to setting up all the art my sister and I currently have.  We don't really have anything of "value" (nothing that cost more than $20), unless you include the cost of a plane ticket.  But we have travelled a bit off the beaten path and collected some pretty cool stuff.  I also have a charcoal drawing that an artist friend of mine did in college, she hated it and was about to toss it when I stopped her, since although it might not be "technically good" in her mind, it's definitely my type of art.  I got it for free, but it is signed and she's a pretty fantastic artist, so one day it might have value as "early work" :).

    My parents have also been clearing out their attic lately, and I've been collecting some silver.  I have definitely claimed the role as the daughter who won't let anything good get thrown away.


    That is so cool (none / 0) (#16)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 10:01:49 AM EST
    If it makes you happy I would imagine that that makes him happy too.  My family never liked silver and I'm the poorer for it :)  I love old things from people that I'm fond of.  I almost have no reason to buy new things because I love all these old things and everybody on my dad's side of the family says out loud, "Oh, Tracy will take that".  And I will, and my husband will rewire it for me and/or glue the whole sewing machine wooden frame back together for me and refinish it and I keep it forever and ever.  Grandma Vera's old Currier and Ives dish set sits in a cupboard next to the diningroom table.  Zoey couldn't leave it alone.  She was breaking in every single day and playing with it all and I would whisper in her ear, "Grandma Vera, are you in there?"

    I would have expected to find (5.00 / 3) (#23)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 10:12:20 AM EST
    the interesting little knick knacks and stuff and you are right it is fun to have them around because every time I seem them them remind me of uncle doyle and even tho I never knew him very well I think you are right that its exactly what he would  have wanted.
    he told my sister he didnt really want to leave the stuff to anyone who would sell it. so she just distributed it.  she let his children (that he had disowned and had no use for at all - the vultures he called them) take pretty much anything they wanted so god only knows what they walked away with before I got there.  but I was not prepared for all the wonderful art he had.  real art is not very common in my family.  most of them would not know real art from velvet elvis, god love um.  I got several things that I would have bought for real money.  there are not very many people in my family that I expect to have art I would hang on my wall.  
    so that is what I will be reminded of doyle most by.
    that is what made me wish I had gotten to know him better.  I think we had a lot in common.  
    at least in our taste in art.

    Family of birth and family of choice :) (none / 0) (#30)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 10:20:52 AM EST
    The direct care method is growing (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by Inspector Gadget on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 12:02:51 PM EST
    Snoqualmie Valley Hospital District in recent months has been offering area residents full-menu primary medical care for just $30 a month at its clinics in Snoqualmie, North Bend and Fall City. Patients also pay a $45 set-up fee, along with $5 for each doctor visit.

    Snoqualmie Valley is now the second local hospital, after Swedish Medical Center, to adopt the low-cost "direct care" model, which has patients paying doctors directly for medical care rather than paying indirectly through third-party insurance.

    Direct care is seen as a source of inexpensive basic medical care for people who are uninsured or who have high-deductible insurance. Its adopters see direct care as an efficient way of delivering primary care as the cost of health insurance continues to climb.

    Qliance Medical Management Inc., with clinics in Seattle and Kent unattached to a hospital, pioneered the low-cost version of this model in 2006, and now has nearly 3,000 patients. It charges between $39 and $79 a month, depending on age.

    in the Puget Sound area. Swedish Medical Center is the facility that Nancy Pelosi was out here touring immediately following the House vote on HCR.

    Regarding the Swiss vote (none / 0) (#3)
    by andgarden on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 09:16:49 AM EST
    How many more examples do we need for people to realize that direct democracy is an evil, evil, thing?

    NPR reports though there are many (none / 0) (#4)
    by oculus on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 09:23:25 AM EST
    mosques in Switzerland, only four have minarets and those do not broadcast calls to prayer out of respect for neighbors.  

    So what does that tell you about this vote? (none / 0) (#19)
    by andgarden on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 10:06:13 AM EST
    "We hate muslims" is how I read it. I assume most of the voters agreed.

    That is exactly what it tells me. (none / 0) (#21)
    by oculus on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 10:09:20 AM EST
    Apparently the campaign to put minarets to a vote, per NPR, started in a small village.  One woman of the village sd. on NPR she was ok with immigration, just not these people.

    That's what they always say (none / 0) (#25)
    by andgarden on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 10:15:42 AM EST
    There's a really hateful email snaking (none / 0) (#36)
    by Inspector Gadget on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 10:31:53 AM EST
    around right now against the Muslims by this countries Christians. Apparently, Obama had the audacity to appoint 2 devout Muslims to the Dept of Homeland Security.

    The same thing can happen... (none / 0) (#5)
    by kdog on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 09:26:45 AM EST
    in a representative democracy...tyrannical bad law is tyrannical bad law regardless of how it is passed.

    I think it is more an argument for strong protections for individual liberty from the tyranny of the majority and limited government; than an indictment of direct democracry.


    Can happen, yes, but it's not as likely (none / 0) (#18)
    by andgarden on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 10:05:22 AM EST
    Private votes are for people, not measures. The direct democracy have a crappy case to make for their system. They can point to a few good reforms that passed, but I can point to much more hate and anti-tax insanity.

    Fair enough... (none / 0) (#22)
    by kdog on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 10:11:16 AM EST
    though whether representative or direct, look at the tyranny that flies in either system and its enough to turn a sane man to anarchy.

    Suspected cop killer still at bay (none / 0) (#7)
    by jbindc on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 09:40:06 AM EST

    My favorite part:

    Clemmons is a convicted criminal with a long rap sheet who had a 95-year prison sentence commuted in 2000 by then-Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee, said Pierce County sheriff's spokesman Ed Troyer.

    Huckabee, a Republican presidential candidate in 2008, is considering a run for president in 2012.

    "Should [Clemmons] be found responsible for this horrible tragedy, it will be the result of a series of failures in the criminal justice system in both Arkansas and Washington state," Huckabee's office said in a statement Sunday night.

    Amazing to watch conservatives turn themselves inside and out on this.

    This is a bad dude who should have never seen the light of day again.

    Hey, I can't stand Huckabee anymore than (5.00 / 2) (#24)
    by Anne on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 10:15:31 AM EST
    anyone else, but in this case, I wouldn't be so quick to jump on him, even if it is the easy thing to do.

    From the FDL News Desk:

    Clemmons was serving a combined 95-year sentence in Arkansas for robbery, based on actions he took when he was 18. There were no violent crimes in his history in Arkansas leading up to that point when he was released, although a few incidents during captivity while he was being tried. More recently, in Washington state, he was arrested for child rape and several other felony charges, and he exhibited multiple signs of mental illness. If you want to criticize the criminal justice system for allowing him to walk the streets, it may be fair in more recent times. But nine years ago, Mike Huckabee did not have a crystal ball, and that extremely excessive sentence for a couple robberies does not seem justified.

    Huckabee has released a statement blaming "failures in the criminal justice system" and the parole board in Arkansas for Clemmons slipping through. That's typical of Huckabee, who takes no responsibility for anything. But this notion that every Governor has a pre-crime unit where he can divine the future and know who to lock up forever is what has led this country to incarcerating more of its citizens that any of Earth, without a proportionate impact on decreasing crime to justify it. Calling this Mike Huckabee's "Willie Horton" moment, aside from the racial overtones, gives in to a default view of crime and punishment that has been discredited as draconian, unsustainable and not even the most responsible course for public safety. There indeed were failures in the Clemmons case, but the "tough on crime" attitude has led to spending more in some states on incarceration than K-12 education. And it does not logically follow that we can simply lock up every potential criminal and stop every potential crime.

    Blaming Huckabee for not keeping Clemmons in prison for the duration of his sentence, on the chance that Clemmons might commit more crimes, is somewhat reminiscent of the preventive detention policy that seems to be under development with respect to those we are detaining for what are yet-to-be-determined reasons.

    Just my - and David Dayen's - two cents.


    FDL needs to get more info (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by jbindc on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 11:01:06 AM EST

    Clemmons has a long criminal history that reportedly includes at least 13 felony convictions, and most recently had been in jail on charges of child rape. According to the Times, he was sentenced to 60 years in prison in 1990 for burglary and theft, when he was 18 years old; he had already been serving a 48 year prison sentence at the time, and faced another possible 95 years behind bars on separate charges. Huckabee reportedly commuted that sentence, pointing to the fact that Clemmons was just a teenager.

    emphasis mine.


    So that wasn't his first trip at the rodeo, so to sepak - even then.


    The crimes he was serving (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by Anne on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 11:31:11 AM EST
    the 48 years for were also for robbery, theft of property, etc - I don't believe there were any violent crimes against persons - and he was 16 years old.  You are drawing a conclusion from the length of the sentences, and justifying it on the basis of what has happened since - it's a hindsight conclusion.

    How willing are you to consign a teenager to prison for life for non-violent crimes committed at the age of 16 and 18?

    Look, it's clear the man has mental problems; I do not know what efforts, if anything, were made while he was in prison in Arkansas to address those problems, but if I had to guess, I would say nothing.

    You want to lay this at Huckabee's feet, and you're certainly entitled to do that, but I think that's the easy response; should we never, ever re-visit what appear to be unnecessarily harsh sentences, or just consign everyone convicted of a crime, regardless of the nature of the crime, to life in prison because of what might happen in the future if we don't?

    And I take it that you must be a proponent of preventive detention, then?

    Seriously, there are any number of reasons to vilify Mike Huckabee, but this one just seems like a stretch.


    I never said (none / 0) (#59)
    by jbindc on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 11:47:24 AM EST
    He should have served all 95 years.  The fact is, however, he was serving three sentences - so obviously this wasn't one youthful indiscretion.  

    I also wasn't laying anything at Huckabee's feet, except reporting the fact that he was the one who pardoned him. In fact, my comment was that it will be interesting to see conservatives twist themselves into a pretzel defending his decision to commute this guy's sentence, when in any other circumstance (especially where there would have been a Democratic governor), they would jump all over it.

    That being said, we don't know this man was mentally ill at the time of those crimes (we don't know if he's technically mentally ill now - we have hearsay comments by people who have a vested interest in seeing him not pursued for his crimes stating he's mentally ill).

    And you comment about me being for preventive detention is way off the mark.  I am for people paying for their crimes - you know, the ones they already committed? -  and not necessarily letting someone out who has committed three thefts out in 8 years.  

    Seriously, if there are any more ways folks around here can miss the bigger part of the picture here, I would be amazed.  This man is suspected of targeting police officers, walking into a coffee shop, and blowing 4 police officers away - 4 people with families who had no beef with this guy.  I doubt they care one way or another if this guy had a rough life, was mentally ill or whatever.


    8 years for 3 thefts (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by CST on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 11:55:17 AM EST
    sounds like a lot to me.  These are not violent crimes.  How long do you think someone should be locked up for stealing?  That's almost a decade.

    It's absolutely horrible that 4 people were killed, but lets not pretend that most people who steal go on killing sprees later in life.  There are some things in life you can't predict.


    I think (none / 0) (#61)
    by jbindc on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 11:57:21 AM EST
    if you steal (and get caught) 3 times, then yes, you should serve more than 8 years.  It obviously shows a pattern, intent, and a total disregard for the law.

    How much more? (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by Anne on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 01:03:07 PM EST
    Five years?  Ten years?

    But not 95 years, I guess; that's too much?  I think, by the way, that you are off on the amount of time he served; according the the Seattle Times article:

    Clemmons served 11 years before being released.

    The truth is that the system fails people all the time, and sometimes that has tragic results.

    I don't see mental illness as an excuse for someone to get away with the crimes they are accused of committing; I see mental illness as a disease that ought to be treated, but I would guess that Arkansas doesn't allocate a whole lot of money for that seeing as how most of their prison funds have to go to keeping people locked up for six or seven decades.

    That Huckabee was also responsible for the release of Wayne DuMond is what makes it easy to draw damning conclusions about the Clemmons case, but it is possible that we are looking at apples and oranges.

    I don't frankly care what conservatives or liberals make of what happened; the only ones who need to do some soul searching are those who came into contact with Clemmons over the years, and could have intervened to prevent what happened this weekend - maybe Huckabee is one of those people.


    More blame (none / 0) (#68)
    by jbindc on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 01:23:13 PM EST
    Clemmons was let out of jail one week ago.  What was he jail for (again) you ask? He was in jail for several months on child-rape charges and was able to post bail, even though he was staring at 8 felony counts.

    So, are we going to make more excuses that this man was just misunderstood and is mentally ill?


    I don't see anyone (none / 0) (#69)
    by CST on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 01:31:06 PM EST
    making excuses for the man.  Just explaining why others (specifically Huckabee) might not have assumed he would be such a criminal at an earlier stage in his life.  Obviously there are other things that have happened since that should have raised the alert.

    Who is making excuses? (none / 0) (#70)
    by Anne on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 02:03:26 PM EST
    Not me - I stated so quite explicitly in my previous comment.

    I am aware of why Clemmons was in custody in Washington, but I'm also aware that child-rape and violent crime were not a factor in the original Arkansas sentencing; yes, we now know what he was capable of, but what does that have to do with the charges he was serving time for when Huckabee granted him clemency?

    I don't think anyone is suggesting that mental illness is a reason - an excuse - to let someone get away with a terrible crime, but what I am suggesting is that it appears from what I read that this man needed help, and never got it.  He tried to have a normal life - he married and had some sort of business - but doesn't seem that he was capable of it all on his own.

    Why does it feel like you're saying that those who commit crimes must also suffer the punishment of being denied the help they need to be able to think and act rationally, and perhaps assist in their own rehabilitation?   Doesn't part of getting on a better path include understanding why and how you got there in the first place so that you can take responsibility?  No one's saying there should not be punishment, but if that's all we're interested in, let's stop pretending there's any rehabilitative element at all.

    I realize that lives have been altered - and ended - by Clemmons' actions, and that cannot ever be minimized; it's just shocking to me sometimes how easily people who are not even involved can be so vindictive.


    Again (none / 0) (#71)
    by jbindc on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 02:14:28 PM EST
    My point, which you've missed, was that I was not solely blaming Huckabee.  He did what he did because he was running for President.  However, the fact is, he should have done a little more digging around, since Clemmons had a history of not being on the right side of the law  - dating back to bringing a gun to school in junior high.

    Does he have mental illness?  Maybe - but a psychologist said he was competent to stand trial.  Does this mean every person who has a mental illness should be excused?

    And once again, the main point of my original comment was that the thing that is getting lost (as it is in this thread) is that there are 4 police officers dead because this guy targeted cops.



    Come on - I thought you were an attorney: (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by Anne on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:04:54 PM EST
    a person can be legallycompetent and still be mentally ill, can't they?

    And doesn't the state's psychologist have more of a reason to find someone competent to stand trial?  I think they do.

    You started this discussion by highlighting that your "favorite part" of the Seattle Times story was that Huckabee was the guy who let Clemmons out - that's what got this discussion going - and not that there were four dead cops because Clemmons targeted them.  I can't find that particular "point" in any of your comments.

    As an aside, Huckabee let Clemmons out in 2000, not when he was running for president - Clemmons has been out for nine years.

    All I can say is, woe betide the little kid who brought his Boy Scout knife to show his third grade buddies, because if he ever gets arrested for shoplifting, being on the "wrong side of the law" when he was eight might have them locking the cell door and throwing away the key.

    And for the last time, no one is making excuses on the basis of mental illness, nor is anyone suggesting that Clemmons should not be accountable or pay a price for the shootings.

    I have a feeling that whatever special place in hell you think Clemmons belongs is not nearly as awful as the one that exists within his own head, and I would like to think that had anyone helped this man sometime in the last 20 years, maybe there would have been no rape and no cop-killings - but we'll never know.  If Clemmons had raped my child or killed my husband, you can be sure I would have a lot of anger toward him, and would want to see him punished, but I also believe that a good bit of anger would be directed at the people who failed Clemmons over and over and over again.


    And do you think (none / 0) (#65)
    by CST on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 12:56:27 PM EST
    that after spending more time in jail (how much is too much?) he would have been more or less likely to go on a killing spree?

    I go for more likely.  I am not sure what you think more time in prison for theft will do to a person's mental state or personality, but I highly doubt it's anything good.  Unless you plan on locking people up for life for theft.

    Personally, I think anything more than a few years for non-violent crimes is absurd.  A year or two might scare them and teach a lesson, too much more is just likely to kill whatever good that person might have left in them.  Especially if that person is still young and developing mentally.  Who do you think they are meeting and learning from in prison?  Hard time should be reserved for hard criminals.


    A judge was scared of him (none / 0) (#27)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 10:16:32 AM EST
    And has he had cops as a target (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by Cream City on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 11:24:41 AM EST
    for some time, I wonder?  The first conviction -- or one of the first, with so many -- when he was a teenager was for burglarizing a state trooper's home.  Probably a coincidence, that time . . . but the load of convictions that came down on him for that one, as we can imagine for burglarizing a member of the law-and-order community, could have led him to continuing to target cops.

    He'd probably scare me, too, (none / 0) (#38)
    by Anne on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 10:33:44 AM EST
    but in reading that article, I don't see how anyone could not see that the system did fail at multiple points along the way.  To lay it all at Huckabee's feet just seems to be to be a knee-jerk reaction to the fact that it's Huckabee, and I just have to wonder if there would be as much finger-pointing if the governor who had granted clemency had been a Democrat.

    I'm thinking not, but who knows?


    I actually got the impression from all (none / 0) (#48)
    by Inspector Gadget on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 10:58:19 AM EST
    the sources that include the Huckabee connection that the media is just trying to explain why the man was even on the streets. Since he was commuted, he's been a constant "criminal," if that's what you would call someone who has been going around telling people he is the confirmed Messiah.

    I think he found every single crack available to fall through.

    Any hint at criticism I've seen on Huckabee is the repeated opinion that he commuted so many more sentences than any other governors. Seems like a "filler" paragraph to make the story enough words to fit the space.


    I agree (none / 0) (#51)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 11:02:02 AM EST
    but four police officers were executed in a barista.  This is going to be ugly for anyone who missed signs.  

    Actually (none / 0) (#52)
    by jbindc on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 11:03:25 AM EST
    ...and I just have to wonder if there would be as much finger-pointing if the governor who had granted clemency had been a Democrat

    There would be more...soft on crime and all that...


    Well said Anne... (none / 0) (#33)
    by kdog on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 10:26:24 AM EST
    We've got far too few pardons as it is...I'd hate to see one pardon gone wrong discourage governors and the pres from future pardons.

    And I hope the D's show more class than the R's did to Dukakis over Willie Horton.



    Tell you what (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by Steve M on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 10:51:32 AM EST
    Read this diary and tell me if you're still a big fan of Huckabee's merciful tendencies.

    So much stuff always going on (none / 0) (#53)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 11:04:49 AM EST
    I forgot all about this.  Yup, I think Huckabee should probably ferget about 2012.  Were they releasing people to balance budgets?

    Damn... (none / 0) (#56)
    by kdog on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 11:26:19 AM EST
    I kinda remember that pardon, and it does stink...shame on Huck for that.

    But this one?  I can't go there...every pardon has risk and its a risk righteousness demands we take...imho of course.


    The media is the source (none / 0) (#41)
    by Inspector Gadget on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 10:47:13 AM EST
    for never leaving out the Huckabee connection.

    Although, the live interview this morning with the spokesofficer in Pierce County said Arkansas is going to have to produce all information they have on him on why in the world the guy was in Washington state when he had 6 warrants in Arkansas.

    Apparently, lots [news media term] of people helped him post-shooting and are now in custody themselves.

    Local news is reporting in more detail than national.


    Sorry (none / 0) (#8)
    by jbindc on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 09:41:02 AM EST
    thought I put that in the right format.

    But he wasn't out of Fort Lewis? (none / 0) (#10)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 09:49:27 AM EST
    Cuz that was early speculation from some posters at Orange.  I get so sick of that crap

    I hadn't heard that (none / 0) (#11)
    by jbindc on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 09:50:14 AM EST
    I think he's just a career criminal.

    Several people couldn't help (none / 0) (#13)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 09:55:46 AM EST
    making note that the huge military post of Fort Lewis was very nearby. I don't know if it actually is and I wonder why they felt it was necessary to keep bringing that up?

    Weird (none / 0) (#14)
    by jbindc on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 09:59:49 AM EST
    More on his background.

    Well, this isn't good for the Huckster (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 10:15:51 AM EST
    And family's need to be naked for at least 5 mins on Sunday?  It is horrible what a troubled mind can do with a strict upbringing of religiosity.  Whenever I read something like this I am reminded about how defunct any system we have is in providing mental health services.  If any of us have mental health issues the police will help us with those when they need to.  It's demoralizing to think about.  I pray I don't end up with early Alzheimers.  I'll probably get tased.

    Can you get into the military with a (none / 0) (#42)
    by Inspector Gadget on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 10:51:20 AM EST
    lengthy criminal history? He was wanted in Arkansas for multiple crimes and he removed his ankle bracelet (he was out on bail for charges in two violent crimes).

    But, gotta hand it to the Oranges, Fort Lewis is, in fact, not terribly far away. Come to think of it, the Air Force base is also down that way.

    It seems, though, he lived in the Seattle area.


    The Air Force base was also discussed :) (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 11:30:40 AM EST
    Most "zoomies" seem so Vermont to me though.  I don't even know if zoomies sweat and they certainly don't allow weapons in their homes with children in them.  Those would be locked up on the base lock up.  My husband always tells this joke about the different branches of service.

    Another sad element is (none / 0) (#54)
    by Inspector Gadget on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 11:09:51 AM EST
    that the barista who was getting coffee for the shooter saw his gun when the guy reached for his wallet.

    As soon as he turned to leave, the barista ran out the back without saying anything. In hindsight, I can imagine the horrible feeling that had he just screamed, "the man has a gun" when he got to the back door the officers may have had time to pull their weapons and protect themselves.


    Polanski has not yet met (none / 0) (#15)
    by oculus on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 10:01:16 AM EST
    court's conditions for bail:  LAT

    "If the conditions were met, he would be in Gstaad," a Swiss Justice spokesman told the Associated Press

    The accompanying photos of the snow on the villa and the nearby trees made me want to go skiing.

    A couple of articles speculated he could (none / 0) (#49)
    by oculus on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 10:59:25 AM EST
    easily ski to France from the chalet.  Looks to about 50 miles though.  That's a long slog.

    Orwell's Telescreen.... (none / 0) (#20)
    by kdog on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 10:06:56 AM EST
    at it again...this time Big Brother is after the underage drinkers on Facebook.

    The blogger nailed it...if this is what cops are doing on taxpayer time and dime then we've got way too many cops.

    not pack man (none / 0) (#40)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 10:41:50 AM EST
    WND Exclusive
    Players have dirty 'gay' sex in hit game
    Trendy Christmas gift features characters naked, kissing in homosexual embrace

    wnd shouldnt be so shocked.  there was serious discussion of making the main character in our game gay simply because it has not been done before.  games are growing up.

    Leave (none / 0) (#47)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 10:56:26 AM EST
    it to the whackos at WND to get upset about gay sex but not the child sacrifice part.

    Game of the Decade? (none / 0) (#44)
    by Steve M on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 10:52:19 AM EST
    Isn't this just a replay of the same matchup from last year?  What makes this rendition more OMG-worthy?

    Not much (none / 0) (#46)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 10:53:30 AM EST
    I was satirizing.

    But if I had to defend the title, I would say they are both undefeated this time.


    Try this again..too fat to graduate (none / 0) (#63)
    by jbindc on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 12:24:32 PM EST
    Apparently so:

    Most college students expect to receive their diplomas on the basis of grades, but at a Pennsylvania school, physical fitness matters too.

    Students at Lincoln University with a body mass index of 30 or above, reflective of obesity, must take a fitness course that meets three hours per week. Those who are assigned to the class but do not complete it cannot graduate.

    Calculate your body mass index

    Now that the first class to have this requirement imposed is nearing graduation day -- students who entered in the fall of 2006 -- the school faces criticism from both students and outsiders about the fitness class policy.

    One of those students is Tiana Lawson, 21, whose recent editorial in the student paper has drawn national attention to the issue. Lawson wrote in The Lincolnian that she would be more understanding if the requirement applied to everyone. She thinks all students, not just those with a high BMI, should have to take the class.

    No, not "too fat to graduate" (5.00 / 3) (#74)
    by Peter G on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:13:23 PM EST
    That's not what the story says.  It says that overweight students are being required to take a health class to increase awareness of the risks of obesity and diabetes, which are epidemic in the African-American population, and to learn how to take action against them. (Lincoln is one of the great historically Black universities.) What might keep someone from graduating is refusal to take the class, not failure to lose weight.  I'm not taking a position on the student protest of the policy, just correcting the post.  

    Serena Williams fined for tirade (none / 0) (#64)
    by jbindc on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 12:29:12 PM EST
    Gets record fine and threat of suspension if she does it again.

    Serena Williams was fined a record $82,500 for her U.S. Open tirade and could be suspended from that tournament if she has another "major offense" at any Grand Slam in the next two years.

    Grand Slam administrator Bill Babcock's ruling was released Monday, and he said Williams faces a "probationary period" at tennis' four major championships in 2010 and 2011. If she has another "major offense" at a Grand Slam tournament in that time, the fine would increase to $175,000 and she would be barred from the following U.S. Open.

    "But if she does not have another offense in the next two years, the suspension is lifted," Babcock said in a telephone interview from London.

    My deep fried turkey came out really well (none / 0) (#66)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 01:02:37 PM EST
    on T-day.

    Tip: Thermometers with plastic parts probably shouldn't be put in 350F oil...