Tuesday Evening Open Thread

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    Reid takes to the limelight. (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by lentinel on Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 08:37:58 PM EST
    From our new hero; Mr. Harry Reid:

    "When I came here we had -- Republicans and Democrats worked together," Reid said. "But we can't dance if your partner is unwilling to get off the chair. It's like when I was in high school. Um, I wanted to dance but she wouldn't get up, okay?"

    What is it with these people?
    So we have picture Harry Reid being refused a dance by a discriminating young woman?

    Can't they all just fade away?

    Cautionary note: don't just assume (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by oculus on Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 10:04:10 PM EST
    the water bill you pd. on line was actually pd.!  Oh well, water will be back on tomorrow.

    Ouch (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by andgarden on Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 10:05:37 PM EST
    Honestly, I don't have experience with a municipality that would actually turn off the water without considerable notice.

    Well, there is that! Need to back away (5.00 / 4) (#19)
    by oculus on Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 10:12:02 PM EST
    from computer and open the mail.

    Nearly happened to me, too (none / 0) (#33)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 11:46:03 PM EST
    for the same reason.  Water bills come quarterly hee on a teeny tiny postcard that frequently hides in amongst the magazines and weekly shoppers.  Oops!

    I'm guessin you've never lived (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by nycstray on Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 10:14:30 PM EST
    in a drought state. I've only lived in NY and CA. Only had my water threatened in CA. It's kinda like gas and electricity, with drought restrictions . . .

    Just be glad you could pay a bill and (5.00 / 2) (#23)
    by Anne on Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 10:32:40 PM EST
    have water...imagine being on a well, and turning on the faucet and...nada.  Happened to us a couple times; eventually had to drill down another 150 feet...makes one very conscious of water use, that's for sure.

    People say, "oh, you're so lucky - your water is free," and I remind them of the $7,000 it cost to drill the first time, and the $3,000 it cost to drill deeper some 20 years later.  Over the 26 years we've been here, that's about $385 a year, and if we never have to drill again, that will go down, but still...it wasn't free!  Then there are the three well pumps we had to have replaced, and the acid neutralizer and the water softener...free?  Not hardly.


    $385/year looks pretty good from here. (none / 0) (#26)
    by oculus on Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 10:46:14 PM EST
    Sure, spread out over 26 years... (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by Anne on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 07:21:49 AM EST
    it's not so bad - I guess the only saving grace is that we didn't wrap the cost of the well into our mortgage, so we're not paying interest.

    Always with an eye toward the water table, and what it means for our water supply, I try not to complain about the rain or snow!


    Yikes, I don't think I've ever paid (none / 0) (#27)
    by vml68 on Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 10:48:59 PM EST
    more than $60/mo for water.

    Oops,,,, (none / 0) (#28)
    by vml68 on Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 10:52:22 PM EST
    I read it as $385/mo. Time to go to bed.

    I pay 15 bucks a month (none / 0) (#32)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 11:44:03 PM EST
    for water, and that covers watering my garden unless it's a really dry summer.

    That's the good part.  The bad part is it's heavily chlorinated water from Lake Champlain, to the point that even my cats refused to drink it when we first moved here.  Yech.

    But in dry summers when people's wells start to go dry around here, I'm grateful to be on the system after all.


    I pay over a hundred monthly (none / 0) (#77)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 09:59:34 AM EST
    if it has been a dry month.

    Can't fight city hall (none / 0) (#42)
    by mmc9431 on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 07:41:38 AM EST
    Last year I received a $600 water bill for the first quarter of the year! I almost fell off the chair. It was the winter months so there's no garden involved. Plus I had been gone for three weeks.

    They came out and read the meter again and told me they were right and that I had to pay or they would shut off the service.

    I never had a water bill more than $100 before or since and I've lived here for over 30 years.

    I suspect the village was trying to shore up the budget.


    Whoa. (none / 0) (#44)
    by Fabian on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 08:14:35 AM EST
    I know we have EPA mandated sewer upgrades to pay for.  (Storm water issues, plus inadequate sanitary sewer capacity.)  But our combined water/sewer bills are nowhere near that - here we have 40+ inches of annual rainfall and have good hydrology.

    Chicago Burbs (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by mmc9431 on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 08:46:58 AM EST
    We have Lake Michigan! And plenty to rain but that doesn't seem to matter.

    In addition (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by mmc9431 on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 08:55:55 AM EST
    In spite of the fact that housing values have fallen over 20% here, my property taxes are rising 8.7%.

    Something better be done to straighten out this imbalance in the economy or the Republican's are going to come back with a vengence.

    Sad people don't seem to realize that many of the problems we're experiencing are the results of 8 years of Republican rule. They're just going to be so disgusted that any change will do.


    I'm sorry (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 09:23:22 AM EST
    We came home from vacation once to no water too.  Not my most "rested" day :)

    AThanks. My offspring stockpiled (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by oculus on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 09:47:59 AM EST
    large jugs of bottled water for YK2.  They are still sealed and coming in very handy!

    Sitting here laughing (5.00 / 2) (#76)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 09:57:38 AM EST
    Hurricane bands overhead, that knocked out the power for a couple of days, helped me get rid of my husband's Y2K stockpile :)

    Water is back on. Yeah! (none / 0) (#101)
    by oculus on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 01:57:44 PM EST
    Don't know what you got... (none / 0) (#102)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 02:02:37 PM EST
    till its gone, eh oc?

    If there ever is an apocolypse, plumbers will rule the world!


    Courtesy of my sister: (none / 0) (#103)
    by oculus on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 02:17:31 PM EST
    Dear Diary:

    I stumbled upon my family's "go" bag a few weeks ago -- you know, the one I put together (at the city's urging) following 9/11. Following is an itemized list of its contents:

    1. Shoes that fit a 12-year-old (she's now 19).

    2. No shoes for her sister, who was 8 in 2001 and 15 now.

    3. Granola bars from 2001.

    4. Bottled water from 2001.

    5. Keys to a car we no longer own.

    6. Motrin and Tylenol that went bad five years ago.

    7. A hundred dollars in cash (which I appropriated upon discovery).

    [Excerpt from NYT Metropolitan Diary.]

    had the same problem (none / 0) (#18)
    by Dadler on Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 10:10:50 PM EST
    must be a san diego thing.  nothing like coming home to find that red notice on the door.  

    The woman at the City Treas. window (5.00 / 2) (#20)
    by oculus on Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 10:13:33 PM EST
    sd. it is not an uncommon problem.  Does seem like if the payor pressed the "pay" button on line and the payment doesn't go through, perhaps the city could notify on line?

    Same Old, Same Old (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by cpa1 on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 01:02:17 AM EST
    Most of us knew that Obama was not going to rock the boat and make the changes necessary for this country to get off it's lazy ass and start moving forward.  It's sad because he has the understanding and he has or should I say had street cred even from Republicans.  So what is he doing?  He's doing a John Kerry.  

    He needs to be honest and not be afraid to slam the Republicans right in the mid section.  But as I predicted, middle and upper middle class  Americans do not want to be the schmucks anymore and they don't want any more money coming out of their pockets until there is some big pain for the wealthy.  Health-care would cost them plenty and I hear there is no COLA increase for Social Security, which is a disgrace, especially considering what so many people put into it and they are even getting taxed on most of it.

    I am looking forward to a great World Series and as "Mickey Mantle" Yankee fan, I can tell you all that this is a wonderful bunch of guys.  I hear the word hate getting thrown around too much as if people were talking about Limbaugh, Coulter, Cheney and Bush, who deserve the curses.  It is childish and makes people look stupid and shallow,  I hear so many complaints about the Yankee payroll but imagine how many fans would come to the new stadium had the management not gotten CC and Burnett and just went with Andy, Jobba, Phil Hughes and Ian Kennedy as their starters.  The Yankees payroll is a smaller percentage of their total revenue than most teams.  Look what happens to teams that don't spend.  Look at football where many games are being blacked out on local TV because the stadiums are empty and they are empty because their teams stink.

    It's like what do you do when running a supermarket and sales go down.  If you cut back on inventory and variety, you won't have enough to sell and people will go someplace else.  $212 million payroll for the Yankees, works and they are paying back, via the luxury tax, to those teams who don't spend enough.  

    I am finally getting a new phone.  I was going to get the Iphone but it is not great for those of us who need to use Word and Excel files, which Apple doesn't seem to care about.  I decided to get the Verizon Storm2.  My wife and I are getting one each and all we have to pay is $179 for the two phones. The BOGO is a great deal but won't last forever.  When it goes away, and the $100 rebate goes away, those two phones could cost $600 (together).

    I haven't been on much so I thought I'd put all my thoughts in one email.

    How strange that you can see ... (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by cymro on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 01:39:51 AM EST
    ... why there needs to be "some big pain for the wealthy" when discussing health care expenditures by the middle class, and yet in the very next paragraph you can present the fact that "the Yankees payroll is a smaller percentage of their total revenue than most teams" as a good thing. I especially like the analogy you introduced in your point about ...

    ... what happens to teams that don't spend.  Look at football where many games are being blacked out on local TV because the stadiums are empty and they are empty because their teams stink.

    Does that help the league (= the country) and its owners (= the citizens) as a whole? Of course not. That's why Football has a hard salary cap (= laws and regulations to level the playing field), and a lot more revenue sharing (= taxes on the rich) than baseball.

    Baseball, and the US government, would do well to follow the lead of the NFL. Otherwise we end up with a lot of sick teams (= people) who can't afford what it takes to be competitive (= healthy) and the result drags down the profitability (= productivity) of the league (= the nation) as a whole.

    Thanks for pointing out the Yankees and their supporters as an apt metaphor for the Republican party. It makes it easy to explain the problem with right-wing attitudes.


    Reid Mystery Woman speaks to the press. (5.00 / 2) (#39)
    by lentinel on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 05:24:13 AM EST
    Yesterday, in a moment of unguarded candor, Harry Reid admitted to an unsuccessful flirtation at a dance while he was an ambitious teenager. Yesterday, Mr. Reid revealed that he had sought the attentions of a young woman at a highschool dance, but she was "unwilling to get off the chair. ... I wanted to dance but she wouldn't get up, okay?" He refused all questions, leaving the press to speculate as to the identity and political affiliation of the woman who "wouldn't get off the chair".

    Jonathan Fisk, a classmate of young Reid, appeared on Larry King Live last night but was unable to shed much light on the incident. He said he thought the dance refusal might have been issued by Nancy "Nance" Fleetley, but couldn't be sure. Fleetley, reached for comment, issued a firm denial through her attorney.

    Today, however, the mystery woman who would not go along with Reid's dance request came forward. "I would have never talked about it," she said, "but Harry opened the barn door and now the cows are wandering out". Melonie Shandell Smith, now a resident of Coral Belles, Florida, broke her silence and spoke to reporters in a hastily called press conference.

    She told of how young Harry walked up to her while she was seated along the perimeter of the dance-floor at the "Belle of The Ball" homecoming dance at Pinthernell High. "He told me that he wanted me to dance with him. I told him that I was not interested in him and to let me alone. He just stood there, fidgitting". Then he said that someday I would be sorry because he was going to be famous and walked away.

    "You know," she admitted, "If I had known that Harry was going to be the King of the Senate - or whatever - I might have thought about it a little more. But you know, he was a strange boy who kept to himself and nobody liked or trusted him".

    She said she harbored no ill feelings toward Mr. Reid but she had nevertheless declined an invitation to watch him speak in the Senate chamber. "I'm a little too busy now," she offered. "Maybe we can have a beer sometime on the White House lawn with the President", she joked.

    Uhhhh . . . was young Harry a flasher? (5.00 / 2) (#40)
    by Cream City on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 07:12:34 AM EST
    'Round these parts, "the barn door's open and the cows are coming out" is a euphemism for "guy, your fly's open"!

    Oh my... (none / 0) (#95)
    by lentinel on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 10:59:00 AM EST
    a truly unintended allusion...
    But I can't say what really happened at that dance.
    No one is talking.

    That's funny sh*t lentinel... (none / 0) (#82)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 10:04:47 AM EST
    I could almost see our media behaving this way...so I had to hit google to make sure you were joking!

    You are joking right?...:)


    Some is, some ain't (none / 0) (#94)
    by lentinel on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 10:57:24 AM EST
    The complete quote from Harry Reid is as follows:

    "When I came here we had -- Republicans and Democrats worked together," Reid said. "But we can't dance if your partner is unwilling to get off the chair. It's like when I was in high school. Um, I wanted to dance but she wouldn't get up, okay?"

    That part no one could make up.
    The rest is my malarky.


    forget (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 09:10:08 AM EST
    the whole thing then:

    Foremost among them is: How will ObamaCare affect insurance premiums in the private health-care markets? Despite indignant Democratic denials, the near-certainty is that their plan will cause costs to rise across the board. The latest data on this score come from a series of state-level studies from the insurance company WellPoint Inc.

    I'm HIGHLY sceptical (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by CST on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 09:29:07 AM EST
    of any "state-level studies from the insurance company WellPoint Inc" that says health reform is a bad idea.  From the Wall Street Journal no less.  Which is doubly ironic since according to Wall Street, the likelihood of Obamacare passing with a public option sends these stocks tanking.  So the market clearly disagrees.

    ya think? (none / 0) (#68)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 09:35:26 AM EST
    it's early... (none / 0) (#70)
    by CST on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 09:39:34 AM EST
    amen (none / 0) (#88)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 10:14:03 AM EST
    to that

    Kinda funny (5.00 / 2) (#81)
    by Steve M on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 10:04:47 AM EST
    The plain-English version is "we have commissioned this scientific study which concludes that we intend to raise your prices."

    The insurance companies (none / 0) (#62)
    by Fabian on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 09:18:21 AM EST
    should be cheering.  What's not to like about more money pouring in?

    Things rage on (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 09:30:24 AM EST
    as the Taliban attacks the U.N.  If they wanted everyone to leave, attempting to chap the whole world can't be the most brilliant move out there.  

    Actually (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by Steve M on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 10:09:10 AM EST
    the bombing of the UN mission in Baghdad in 2003 drove away quite a bit of international support.  This kind of thing has a track record, unfortunately.

    I don't remember having that much (none / 0) (#91)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 10:42:32 AM EST
    UN support for Iraq :)

    No kidding (none / 0) (#69)
    by CST on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 09:39:02 AM EST
    on msn homepage the article right below this is "poll shows support for surge increasing"

    The logic baffles me (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 10:03:49 AM EST
    The Taliban was playing fairly nice too for a bit, while Omar was making some threats.  I don't ever know how seriously I should take the "leader" of the Taliban since the name is only a brand.  We should have roll call everyday, and you can indicate whether or not you are feeling Taliban that day.

    Karzai's brother paid by CIA (none / 0) (#1)
    by caseyOR on Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 08:35:11 PM EST
    The NY Times is now reporting that Hamid Karzai's brother, Ahmed, a suspected Afghan drug lord, has been on the CIA payroll for the last 8 years.

    Why are we paying someone who seems to be a corrupt warlord and major player in the opium trade? At the very least, doesn't this appear to be in conflict with our War on Drugs in Afghanistan? Does Ahmed Karzai get a secret heads-up from his CIA pals when the DEA is patrol?

    Since when has the CIA (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 11:39:26 PM EST
    had compunctions about drugs?

    Good questions all casey... (none / 0) (#48)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 08:35:33 AM EST
    You could fill a circle of hell with current and former members of the CIA payroll...its just how they've always done things...on the shady side.

    Yes, we are in a "Fun House", without (none / 0) (#64)
    by KeysDan on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 09:26:26 AM EST
    the fun.  The Brothers Karzai, up to their ears in political and pharmacologic corruption, constitute not only a conflict with our war on drugs in Afghanistan, but also, with our war.  Among latest missions for Afghanistan, is to build/rebuild the whole country so as to assure its stability, defeat the Taliban, defeat the Afghan al Qaeda, stabilize Pakistan and defeat the Pakistani al Qaeda.  The construction  project is somewhat complicated by a foundation of mercury laid down by the Brothers and aided and abetted by the CIA.

    NY Times Wednesday (none / 0) (#75)
    by mmc9431 on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 09:56:32 AM EST
    Friedman had an interesting op ed on the Afghan situation. I do agree with him that,as long as there's so much corruption and no moderate voice there, we can't win.

    Unlike Bush, I don't believe we can bring "freedom" to people that aren't willing to join us in the effort.


    Don't talk about "the people". (none / 0) (#83)
    by Fabian on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 10:04:53 AM EST
    We deal with the Government.  The Government deals with the people.  

    I'd bet the military would be overjoyed to deal directly with the people.  The people may be utter mercenaries in some regions, but that's more honest than giving money to a government that is actively undermining your efforts.


    True (none / 0) (#89)
    by mmc9431 on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 10:20:36 AM EST
    Historically we've had a consistant record of supporting tyrannies! Castro and Saddam just for starters.

    I agree, Friedman must have been (none / 0) (#92)
    by KeysDan on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 10:51:10 AM EST
    talking to a pretty smart taxi driver. His point of a strong economy being essential to our national security was cogent. In all the back and forth discussions of increasing troops and "winning" the 'good' war, we do not see a budget.  Now, a 'revenue neutral' budget is not expected but how about anticipated expenses?  A ten-year budge, as required for health care reform, should be presented for anticipated expenses. That, of course would put some realism on the ground, as they are wont to wonk about.  Couple that likely $two trillion with the funds to meet the expenses--borrowing from China and an Afghan war sur-tax, and see how that influences thinking.  Oh and Friedman suggests, in accord with military plans, a 20-year undertaking, at least, so just double your budgetary pleasure.

    Wish the World Series would just (none / 0) (#3)
    by oculus on Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 08:58:49 PM EST
    s. tart already

    I'd agree but (none / 0) (#4)
    by CoralGables on Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 09:14:17 PM EST
    what is left is my least favorite team, and the other is a team I rooted against all year while pulling for my home team.

    No true fan of baseball would ever root for the Yankees though so I guess it's Go Phillies!


    Excuse me?! (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by nycstray on Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 09:26:22 PM EST
    No true fan of baseball would root for the Yanks?! I guess we should just erase all the Yanks stats and players from baseball history, eh?

    One of the main reasons I was against a new stadium was the history in the "old" one . . . . Priceless.


    I agree (none / 0) (#8)
    by CoralGables on Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 09:35:52 PM EST
    with your last statement. I made my one and only trip there for Game 2 of the Series in 2003. I froze, but it was priceless.

    My first gane in NYC (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by nycstray on Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 09:59:34 PM EST
    was the Yankees bleachers. I went with my roommate who was also a west coaster and making his first visit to a NY stadium. They were playing the A's during a bad year. Still rocked just being in the stadium.

    I did have the privilege of getting comp tix to a series game. But even without that experience, the stadium still rocks for me. I'm very glad they took the history into the new one, and that's also why I'd like to see the Yanks win this year.

    As much as people may bust on them for their payroll, as a fan, it works. I really can't imagine other team fans going against their team if they started putting out the dollars to get talent and win. And it does pay back into the local economy ;)

    Next season, my local teams may very well be the SF Giants and the A's. You can bet I'll be watching the Yanks and Mets also as I go through my local team crossover transition. The Yanks will prob be my "team" for the "rooting from the heart". What can I say. I like competition and winners . . . .


    Speaking as a Padres fan, I loved it when (none / 0) (#12)
    by oculus on Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 10:02:53 PM EST
    the owners spent money in '98.  If only they had spent as much as Steinbrenner!

    So Cal teams (none / 0) (#17)
    by nycstray on Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 10:09:41 PM EST
    yeah, I wish the Padres owners would pony up for the wins like the George. I just can't get into LA teams, but Padres, yes. I. can.  ;)

    Oh, F*** the first and second wife will be at the Series. Extra security warnings at the stadium. We really don't need them there . . . .


    I'd prefer (none / 0) (#24)
    by CoralGables on Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 10:34:51 PM EST
    baseball had a hard cap just like football. Then the smartest and the best come out on top as opposed to attempting to buy your way to the top.

    When it's not a level field, the enjoyment is seeing Goliath fall.


    But, don't you understand? This is why (none / 0) (#9)
    by oculus on Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 09:52:36 PM EST
    it was soooo important for the Yankees to make it to the WS this year and why they must win the series---to continue tradition to the new Yankee Stadium.  

    I don't know if yer snarkin' (none / 0) (#14)
    by nycstray on Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 10:04:37 PM EST
    or not, but history and tradition is baseball. And the Yanks have that number ;)

    There's also a bit of {what's it called when they wear the same underwear for every game to win?} . . .  


    stinky drawers? (none / 0) (#71)
    by DFLer on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 09:44:21 AM EST
    Wrigly Field (none / 0) (#43)
    by mmc9431 on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 07:50:04 AM EST
    I'd give up the history of Wrigley field in a heart beat for a new state of the art stadium. They've even had to resort to hang netting at Wrigley to catch the falling concrete! The bathrooms are worse than out houses and I've noticed that they don't refer to it as "beautiful" Wrigley Field any more.

    It will be interesting to see what the new owners plan to do. The estimates for restoration are in the hundreds of millions. After spending around $750 million for the team and park, I can't image that they'll have much extra cash for renovations.


    I fear the Phillies will be trampled. (none / 0) (#5)
    by oculus on Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 09:22:03 PM EST
    I don't. (none / 0) (#7)
    by nycstray on Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 09:27:11 PM EST
    Although, I wouldn't mind ;)

    Yikes! (none / 0) (#10)
    by byteb on Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 09:53:39 PM EST
    No true fan of baseball would ever root for the Yankees????

    You gotta be kidding. You may not like them but no true fan of baseball would ever discount/disrespect the Bronx Bombers by making such a statement.

    Go Yankees!


    booooooo (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by andgarden on Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 10:04:47 PM EST
    Go Phillies!

    Da Bombers rule! ;) (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by byteb on Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 10:21:14 PM EST
    My brother went to college in Pennsylvania and grad school in Philly (a small life time ago). He never moved away and now he's  a Philly's fan.  
    The snide text messaging has already begun on both sides of this family divide.

    there is some logical truth to the statement (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by The Last Whimzy on Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 11:42:03 PM EST
    No fan of baseball could root for the yankees.

    I'll draw it out for those who can't see it.

    First of all, you have to care about baseball MORE than you care about the yankees.  If you can't do that, then you won't get the rest.

    But if you do care about baseball more than you care about the yankees then it shouldn't be hard to understand how one team, any team, dominating a league or division creates a marketing problem for the rest of the league.

    When you have ratings plummet for the world series because a certain team isn't in the world series, that doesn't mean the league relies on that team to generate profits, that means the league has failed to create a legitimate reason why anyone BUT the fans of that team should be interested in watching baseball.

    If you care about baseball.  If that is what you think you care about, then you would support a salary cap, and withstand (breathless GASP .. the horror the horror!) of perhaps even a losing season, and then fans of other teams would, over time, be more inclined to support baseball in general.

    you see folks, if you're also a football fan and you're old enough to remember, the dallas cowboys tried to market themselves as "America's Team", they tried to become to football what the Yankees are to baseball.  But ultimately, they were not allowed to fulfill that goal.  you still hear about it sometimes, but the NFL league office takes control over the marketing of the league in way the league office of baseball does not.  at some point they had to realize that having passionate fans invested in their local teams (30 teams) would pay off over time MORESO than having just one team be "America's Team."

    Smart decision.  

    It's ok to say there's a cultural reason football became America's Sport, the fast paced viciousness of the game accounts for a lot, but you'd be pretty stupid to discount any other reason.

    Everyone pretty much agrees baseball has been mismanaged from the top down.  Well.  Steroids is part of that.

    Guess what else is part of that?  The failure to implement a salary cap.

    Guess which entity was behind both of those failures?  Yes.  the players union.  a dim group of individuals who can only see two feet in front of themselves.

    You see, folks, it might seem unfair to say no true fan of baseball could be a yankee fan, it's a sort of extreme statement, but there is a conflict of interest here.


    Really stupid (5.00 / 2) (#45)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 08:23:03 AM EST
    I am going to write a post in rebuttal to this tripe.

    Well said! (none / 0) (#38)
    by cymro on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 02:53:12 AM EST
    I have to point out that "MORESO" is not a real word. But I agree with everything else you said.

    The (none / 0) (#25)
    by CoralGables on Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 10:37:04 PM EST
    Yankees are United Health. Everyone else is the Public Option.

    Well said (5.00 / 2) (#37)
    by Steve M on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 01:46:44 AM EST
    Cheering for the Yankees is like rooting for the house in blackjack.

    Used to be like (none / 0) (#46)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 08:23:45 AM EST
    rooting for General Motors.

    What do you think of that Michigan?


    Never heard that one! (none / 0) (#47)
    by Steve M on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 08:34:45 AM EST
    I grew up believing that every American rooted for GM.  Conservatives have shown me I was wrong.

    Sorry to say but it's not just conservatives. (none / 0) (#56)
    by vicndabx on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 09:06:25 AM EST
    As GM goes (none / 0) (#60)
    by jbindc on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 09:12:50 AM EST
    so goes the Nation.....

    Not so much for the Yankees.  I too, thought everyone outside of NY hated the Yanks.


    Nonsense! Baseball fans everywhere ... (none / 0) (#34)
    by cymro on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 12:59:17 AM EST
    ... (like Norman Chad) root against the Yankees, there's even a Rooting AGAINST the Yankees Facebook page.

    In case you're puzzled about why this is, contributors to Yahoo Answers may help explain: Why do so many people root against the yankees?

    As an A's fan, Go Phillies! ;-)


    Nonsense (none / 0) (#54)
    by vicndabx on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 09:00:59 AM EST
    People talking about markets as though it's the Yankess fault people here in NY are willing to pay to see them play.  

    Owners need to step up, fans in those cities need to step up.  Maybe then there'd be some money to get some exciting players.

    In truth, this is like blaming NY for a lack of jobs in Flint, MI.  


    Hm (5.00 / 2) (#58)
    by Steve M on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 09:09:38 AM EST
    The Yankees' 2009 attendance was 3.7 million.  The Milwaukee Brewers had 3.1 million.

    Somehow I think the payroll disparity involves more than just ticket sales.


    You're right (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by vicndabx on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 09:27:03 AM EST
    behind home plate seats Brewers = $68
    rows behind home plate seats Yanks = $375

    How about (5.00 / 3) (#78)
    by Steve M on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 10:03:11 AM EST
    the TV revenues?!?

    Most of the country does not accept the principle that the Yankees are entitled to always have the best team simply because they play in the largest TV market.  Talk about being born on third base and thinking you hit a triple.


    Why do the TV revenues exist? (none / 0) (#90)
    by vicndabx on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 10:38:57 AM EST
    Is it simply because they're in NY or they have players/drama people want to see?  How may Wisconsin folks are watching Jets games?

    Again, it's the Yankees fault they play in....NY?


    Right (none / 0) (#93)
    by Steve M on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 10:56:29 AM EST
    Having the largest market has nothing to do with it.  You've convinced me.

    Aw c'mon (none / 0) (#96)
    by vicndabx on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 11:15:36 AM EST
    I'm not saying being NY has nothing to do w/it.  Of course it does.  That sports teams benefit from being in NY is no different than any other benefit living in a big city provides.  That's not the fault of the Yankees.  Heck, for that matter, NY'ers have an advantage period.  

    Gotta love New Yorkers. (none / 0) (#85)
    by Fabian on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 10:07:14 AM EST
    And their money, money, money!

    Ah,I think you might have misread the original (none / 0) (#61)
    by byteb on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 09:17:57 AM EST

    The original comment was:  "No true fan of baseball would ever   root for the Yankees." (not "No true fan of baseball would ever root against the Yankees."

    Root against the Yanks all you like, it's part of baseball history to root passionately for your team and to root against the biggest rivals. And root against the The Bombers all you wish, because that's part of baseball history too...just like Babe Ruth, Joe Dimaggio, Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Reggie Jackson, Mickey Mantle, Roger Marris, Whitey Ford, Derek Jeter and Mariano RIvera are part of baseball history and Yankee baseball history in particular.

    Go Yankees!


    And speaking of World Series history (none / 0) (#79)
    by Cream City on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 10:03:12 AM EST
    . . . some of us don't forget -- and the younger set often is reminded at this time of year in my town -- of the arrogance of Noo Yawk media.  

    They  termed our town "Bushville" . . . before we beat the heck out of their team.  


    Don't feel too hurt... (none / 0) (#97)
    by byteb on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 12:07:41 PM EST
    The New York media loves to feast on the Yankees, Mets, Giants, Rangers, Islanders as a whole meal as well as pick off and nibble away at (as appetizers) any player or manager who is perceived as not doing well.  New York fans are not that forgiving either.
    It's not arrogance, just a matter of the beast having to be fed...and it's a tough town.

    After 52 years, we're hardly hurt (none / 0) (#98)
    by Cream City on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 12:35:23 PM EST
    I mean, really.  We weren't hurt then; we got a hoot out of it, as we generally do from the idiocy of Eastern media.  You oughta look up the joyous celebration then, replete with signs and media here making fun of the oafs from the city that calls itself a fruit, after all.  And with historical exhibits here, we still enjoy the fun we had then with them.  

    Not that a Noo Yawker could find the historical exhibits here, since even the vaunted New York Times' maps put my city in the wrong state.  Every chance that Eastern media get, they just give us more evidence of idiocy . . . and lots of laffs.


    Where do you live? (none / 0) (#99)
    by byteb on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 01:33:51 PM EST
    already eliminated NY.  ;)

    In the town that won (none / 0) (#100)
    by Cream City on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 01:54:24 PM EST
    the World Series 52 years ago! (See the '57 series.)

    Milwaukee (none / 0) (#104)
    by byteb on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 03:27:14 PM EST
    Thank you, Google.

    Or, as we call it -- (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by Cream City on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 03:56:05 PM EST
    Cream City. :-)

    And now I know about (5.00 / 1) (#106)
    by byteb on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 06:45:22 PM EST
    Cream City bricks.  :)

    Gorgeous buildings (5.00 / 1) (#107)
    by Cream City on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 08:34:03 PM EST
    but sadly, the brick is porous and too prone to modern pollution -- and too soft to hold up to a lot of power-washing to bring it back to brightness.  So only some have been done, very costly.

    But outside of the city, away from pollution, you still can see gleaming cream brick homes that are just lovely.  Rows and rows of them in the city must have been something to see in the sunlight.


    Go rain out!... (none / 0) (#49)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 08:40:56 AM EST
    After rain out, after rain out, after rain out...if we must crown either of these god-forsaken teams the champ, we can at least put it off till December.

    Rachel Maddow made a comment (none / 0) (#30)
    by joze46 on Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 11:41:01 PM EST
    That America has always been at war with Asia? From my view the Saudi are an integral player for decades in Americas political domestic commercial industrial communications media and secret federal reserve and treasury deals that have been going on to the tune of trillions for decades.  

    Perhaps I heard it wrong, though America is now in a so called war but we don't seem to have national domestic plan that involves all Americans.

    Or do we finely realize the political culture of Bush and Companies right wing Wahhabist, is not to sell their souls, but to strangle Americans souls into listening to the Wahabbi freak show on CNN, FOX or MSNBC sending millions of Americans to unemployment  out of jobs and into military volunteers set up to fail.

    Now the CIA was not telling the truth, not a big surprise for me. For eight years we pay into what is considered the most corrupt Afghanistan brother kazari. Now America needs a new surge, another not too much of another surprise, they need more money. One thing is for sure they love our money. But, the Bush mob money valve is turned off.  

    Perhaps Obama should take a hard look at just how many indignant Afghanistani's are directly involved in the corruption. Take a look at the percent perhaps half are involved in insurgent operations and the politicals world wide plus the news media know it, plus oppressed the real problem for years.  

    If half the country is corrupt illiterate, with no intention to progress to an alternate culture besides growing opium then we all should face and accept the historical sovereign Afghanistani fact, the approach to guns and drug do not work. My point is the military effort should be changed to a professional effort as much as possible. If there is to be a surge America and world should participate in a surge matching the military troops now over there. Plus its clear America does not have enough to speak or translate the national or secular language or include those that would have the ability to build professional skills.

    America should change this approach of training troops to training professionals like doctors lawyer technicians engineers, business...America has gone mad with military. America needs ten proffessionals for every trooper.  

    Baseball season (none / 0) (#50)
    by CST on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 08:41:30 AM EST
    is effectively over :)

    In other news, the Celtics beat Lebron and co. last night!  Woot Woot!  I love sports.

    Also, you can be a true baseball fan and root for the yankees.  There are stipulations though.  If you root for the yankees you must either be from NY, or have a parent from NY, and be a lifelong fan (or if Jeter is your brother, etc...).  Everyone gets a home town "freebie", even if they could be rooting for the Mets.  If you are not from NY, and the yankees are not "your" team, there is no way you can root for them in any series.  Impartial observers must always choose the public option over United Health.  The only exceptions being United Health family and freinds.

    I stand corrected (none / 0) (#57)
    by CoralGables on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 09:07:25 AM EST
    I'll abide by your stipulations for a hometown freebie. Everyone is permitted a little homerism. (although in these two bandboxes homerism has a double meaning).

    For anyone else watching the Series, they should be lined up behind the team that represents David, the Public Option, and The Little Engine That Could.

    As a Marlins fan...Go Phillies!


    Your Girardi love only goes so far (none / 0) (#73)
    by oculus on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 09:51:58 AM EST
    I gather.  He done good for the Marlins.

    Loved him (none / 0) (#84)
    by CoralGables on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 10:06:40 AM EST
    as the Marlins manager, but now he's back to the darkside.

    Hillary 2016 (none / 0) (#55)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 09:05:55 AM EST
    Clinton's coalition is the sleeping giant of American politics. No other national politician, save Obama, has proven able to raise as much money. Much of her base was, like Obama, also loyal for deeper reasons than politics. This is doubly true for the Democratic women who were, and still are, personally invested in Clinton's almost-historic presidency. It's no coincidence that Clinton is on the cover of Parade magazine this week.


    Nope. Obama, Rahm, the Chicago Way (5.00 / 2) (#86)
    by Cream City on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 10:08:50 AM EST
    will not allow it.  Clinton's Democratic women supporters still are being punished, and severely so -- such as my lieutenant governor, who had to end her run for governor this week . . . right after the White House planted front-page stories here about wanting someone else, anyone else who had backed Obama in the primaries.

    And the dirt that then was spread about the lieutenant governor -- a lovely grandmother -- this week was abominable, but it was Chicago Way, all the way.  I am even more disgusted now than before.


    Shouldn't that read "Clinton's historic (none / 0) (#74)
    by oculus on Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 09:52:55 AM EST