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Saturday Night Open Thread: Packing

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Sat Oct 10, 2009 at 07:06:04 PM EST
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It's so cold here, I'm really looking forward to leaving it behind tomorrow, and spending a week at my favorite health spa in California. I'm just about done packing.

This likely will be my last post until I return. While I'm bringing my laptop, I'm hoping not to turn it on much. (I'll probably check the comments from time to time, but leave it at that.) They keep us pretty busy from 6 am to 10 pm, there are no TV's, only a morning paper -- which on past trips, I never had time to read.

As I haven't gone a week without blogging since 2002, I'm not sure whether I'll miss it or feel liberated. Thanks to BTD who will be posting when he's available and has something to say, and (I hope) putting up some open threads when he's not.

This is an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    Saturday Night Open Thread: Packing | 73 comments (73 topical)

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    Prez addresses the Human Rights Campaign now (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by andgarden on Sat Oct 10, 2009 at 07:10:31 PM EST
    It's not enough that he's there--but it means something that he's there. It really does.

    Oh, and enjoy your time off Jeralyn (5.00 / 2) (#3)
    by andgarden on Sat Oct 10, 2009 at 07:11:56 PM EST
    it's good to get a break.

    Parent
    Mostly weak tea from Obama (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by andgarden on Sat Oct 10, 2009 at 07:30:40 PM EST
    Really nothing new. He commits to repeal DADT, but when?

    Parent
    Did you see Jon Stewart on DADT this week? (none / 0) (#7)
    by ruffian on Sat Oct 10, 2009 at 07:34:01 PM EST
    It was good. Meant to post a link here. I'll find it....

    Parent
    Nope, too busy (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by andgarden on Sat Oct 10, 2009 at 07:36:33 PM EST
    I have mixed emotions about this appearance. I'm really glad Obama was there, and I'm glad he said what he did. But what he didn't say was really disappointing.

    Parent
    Stewart on DADT (5.00 / 2) (#11)
    by ruffian on Sat Oct 10, 2009 at 07:37:21 PM EST
    Obama has too much on his plate to repeal DADT? Really?

    Parent
    He could defang DADT by executive order (5.00 / 2) (#14)
    by andgarden on Sat Oct 10, 2009 at 07:39:11 PM EST
    but he has thus far refused to.

    Parent
    Great bit from Stewart (none / 0) (#26)
    by gyrfalcon on Sat Oct 10, 2009 at 08:07:07 PM EST
    I was going to post it here, but you beat me to it.  Thanks!

    Parent
    It was good just to see someone say (5.00 / 3) (#31)
    by ruffian on Sat Oct 10, 2009 at 08:28:08 PM EST
    WTF on national TV.

    I'll take a 4 minute Jon Stewart humorous nag over a KO special comment any time.

    Parent

    Stewart is the best (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by gyrfalcon on Sun Oct 11, 2009 at 08:26:29 AM EST
    He's beyond compare, unique, and uniquely satisfying.  And how he keeps coming up with one new cast member after another as good as the last one who left for a bigger career in movies or something is nothing short of miraculous.

    And all of it without a shred of personal meanness or nastiness, unlike every other late night comic but his comic offspring Stephen Colbert.

    I'm unable to watch during the week, but I DVR the shows and then have a Daily Show orgy on Sat. or Sun. night.  I'm bereft when the show is off for a week.

    Parent

    My brother's been telling us for (none / 0) (#8)
    by Anne on Sat Oct 10, 2009 at 07:36:29 PM EST
    about 100 years that he's committed to quitting smoking...he talks, but never actually quits.

    I'm at the point - have been for a long time - where I just ignore him when he starts talking about it.

    Obama's a talker.

    Parent

    When the President talks, especially about (5.00 / 2) (#12)
    by andgarden on Sat Oct 10, 2009 at 07:37:35 PM EST
    stuff like this, it matters. But it's not nearly enough.

    Parent
    Okay (none / 0) (#24)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Oct 10, 2009 at 08:00:07 PM EST
    well if LBJ had just talked and talked about civil rights but actually never did anything how would he be remembered? Nobody remembers the talking only the actions.

    Parent
    Everybody remembers (5.00 / 2) (#25)
    by andgarden on Sat Oct 10, 2009 at 08:05:52 PM EST
    when LBJ went before Congress and said "we shall overcome." But the only reason they remember that is because words were translated into actions.

    I'm not disagreeing with you, and I'm not satisfied. But words are not nothing.

    Parent

    IMO (none / 0) (#29)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Oct 10, 2009 at 08:20:44 PM EST
    yep. But I'm an actions person and Obama has said a lot of things but then failed to act on them. I really dont think that he's going to do anything for the LBGT community past talking. He's too worried about and fearful of evangelicals to actually do anything. He can't even get up the nerve to get rid of Bush's conscience clause.

    Parent
    Therefore. . .? What? (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by andgarden on Sat Oct 10, 2009 at 08:23:28 PM EST
    Ignore him and withdraw from the political process? No, that's exactly what the fundamentalists want.

    Parent
    No need to ignore him and (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by dk on Sat Oct 10, 2009 at 09:48:53 PM EST
    withdraw.  However, in my opinion, until he proves otherwise, I consider him an obstacle, not an ally, in moving up from second class citizenship.  And I say that as someone who is a long-term optimist in terms of the struggle.

    Parent
    My intention (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by andgarden on Sat Oct 10, 2009 at 10:15:04 PM EST
    is to do everything I can to encourage, cajole, and shame him into being an ally. Strategically, I don't think that's much different than considering him an obstacle.

    I think it's telling that he even bothered to show up at the HRC event. He didn't do that for no reason. Even if it was just to keep us quiet for a while, he apparently perceives some value in keeping us quiet.

    Parent

    Keeping you quiet . . . (5.00 / 3) (#47)
    by nycstray on Sat Oct 10, 2009 at 10:34:06 PM EST
    or stringing you along?

    Parent
    This is the question no one can answer (5.00 / 2) (#49)
    by andgarden on Sat Oct 10, 2009 at 10:51:07 PM EST
    Assuming he's just "stringing us along" (which by the way is absolutely identical to keeping us quiet), what is the alternative response that you would suggest?

    Parent
    I see stringing along as a bit more (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by nycstray on Sat Oct 10, 2009 at 11:07:25 PM EST
    than keeping folks quiet. String along makes me think he will be using you . . . if he just wants to keep you quiet, he might have just tossed y'all an insignificant bone with vague promises.

    I have to wonder if he would have shown up if there was no event tomorrow . . . and if he did, would he have given such a gung-ho speech?

    Sorry, I just do not trust him on equality issues . . . I do trust that he would like a more positive crowd tomorrow though . . .

    Parent

    It's the Benjamins (5.00 / 2) (#55)
    by caseyOR on Sat Oct 10, 2009 at 11:12:10 PM EST
    The LGBT community has been a major source of money for the Democrats since Clinton's 1992 campaign. Obama will do whatever it takes, short of actually expending any political energy or capital on repealing DADT and DOMA, to keep the $$$ rolling in.

    Honestly, we have for so many years been so pathetically grateful to just about any politician who will say anything nice to or about us. A pat on the head goes a long way with the LGBT players. It makes total sense to me that Barack and Rahm figured a personal appearance would sew us up for 2010 at least.

    Parent

    Take the temperature of the community (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by andgarden on Sat Oct 10, 2009 at 11:26:35 PM EST
    I think it isn't enough anymore, and I think they're beginning to realize that.

    Our community is sufficiently discrete and cohesive to make a difference at the ballot box and in the campaign kitty. Of course, our bargaining power will be better if and when the next incarnation of the Republican party begins to consider offering us anything. I'm not holding my breath on that.

    Parent

    Silly to say he will "do nothing" (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by gyrfalcon on Sun Oct 11, 2009 at 08:32:06 AM EST
    on gay issues.  He will, he's just going to take his sweet time about it.  I don't doubt his beliefs on this for a minute, it's just that gay and women's issues aren't all that high on his list of priorities.  He'll get around to it when he has the time and energy.  DADT will be gone by 2012 without question.  DOMA's going to have to wait for Congress, which will take much longer.

    What's so distressing is that even though he believes DADT is wrong, it apparently doesn't bother him in the least that people's lives are daily being ruined by it while he  "gets around to it."

    Parent

    Saying all the right words, once again, (none / 0) (#69)
    by KeysDan on Sun Oct 11, 2009 at 09:33:22 AM EST
    without the right moves seems to be President Obama's "split the difference" mode of governance as applied to gay women and men.  The president's escalation of fierce advocacy, from WH cocktails and cocktail wieners, to CNN-covered speeches continues to hold the gay community leadership, in large measure, at bay. But the puzzling aspect of Mr. Obama's "say, but not do" plan is that it seems to be pleasing neither those who support him nor those who do not.  Indeed, the same grand speeches that hit all the right notes for supporters, sound alarm bells for the wingers--to about the same extent as if he acted. So, why doesn't the president just do what he says, now?

    Parent
    True, except keeping us (none / 0) (#51)
    by dk on Sat Oct 10, 2009 at 10:54:14 PM EST
    quiet is a hindrance, not a help, in achieving the goal.  IMO, more reason to consider him an obstacle.

    Parent
    Well, supposing that we don't keep quiet (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by andgarden on Sat Oct 10, 2009 at 11:01:27 PM EST
    (and I think it's safe to say that we won't), what's his next move. My hope is that he'll decide that he has to spend some political capital on us.

    Parent
    Well, I think his political (none / 0) (#56)
    by dk on Sat Oct 10, 2009 at 11:22:24 PM EST
    capital is falling day by day, so that ship has probably sailed.  That's just the reality of the presidency, I think.  Presidents typically don't gain political capital as time goes on.  They lose it.

    Instead of hoping he's really an ally, or trying to convince him to be an ally, perhaps it makes more sense to look for allies elsewhere for the time being.  There are two other branches of government, as well as the 45 or so states that haven't come to their senses yet.

    Parent

    Well, I think that's all got to be (none / 0) (#58)
    by andgarden on Sat Oct 10, 2009 at 11:29:18 PM EST
    part of the strategy (though there is a certain indignity inherent in having to ask for civil rights state-by-state). But I think we have to recognize that Congress is even more risk averse than the President (usually; the way the White House shot down Alcee Hasting's DADT amendment was quite troubling)

    Parent
    Well, again, your final (none / 0) (#59)
    by dk on Sun Oct 11, 2009 at 12:14:57 AM EST
    point is another reason I think it makes sense to consider this President part of the problem, not pert of the solution.

    Parent
    Nope (none / 0) (#33)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Oct 10, 2009 at 08:32:09 PM EST
    I'm just saying Obama is not going to do anyting so the answers lie elsewhere. He can talk but what's that worth? We all know he'll do little to nothing. Working at the grassroots level would be my suggestion.

    Parent
    There's no substitute for Washington (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by andgarden on Sat Oct 10, 2009 at 08:35:15 PM EST
    If there's a 10% chance that he can help on the issues I care about, I'm going to devote the lion's share of my efforts in that direction.

    Parent
    if he's lived to almost 100 (none / 0) (#13)
    by Jeralyn on Sat Oct 10, 2009 at 07:37:55 PM EST
    as a smoker, there's probably no reason for him to quit. (/smile)

    Parent
    Yeah, that's one way to look at it! (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by Anne on Sat Oct 10, 2009 at 07:45:46 PM EST
    But...he has a daughter who has problems with asthma, and he regularly has his own problems with allergies and sinus infections, so he knows what he needs to do is stop.

    This is a guy who worries every time he has an ache or a pain that he has cancer, so continuing to smoke just - pardon the expression - fuels that particular fire.

    I just hate going to his house as I always feel like I smell like an ashtray when I leave.

    Parent

    Pardon me, (5.00 / 2) (#23)
    by Zorba on Sat Oct 10, 2009 at 07:59:53 PM EST
    Anne, but if he simply cannot quit, and his daughter has asthma- he should take his smoking outside.  Cigarette smoke is truly awful for asthmatics.  I'm sorry for his daughter.

    Parent
    Well, the "rule" is that he's supposed (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by Anne on Sat Oct 10, 2009 at 08:16:54 PM EST
    to only smoke outside, but...I know he smokes in his bedroom, which means it circulates through the house.

    He knows - how could he not? - so nothing I say is going to make a difference.

    He actually has quit a time or two, but always goes back; I was a two-pack-a-day smoker when I quit 30 years ago, and I have no idea why anyone would ever want to have to quit more than once.  I carried an unopened pack of cigarettes in my purse for a year, "just in case;" and I still dream about it now and again.

    Parent

    My mother (none / 0) (#61)
    by Fabian on Sun Oct 11, 2009 at 05:36:27 AM EST
    smokes in one room and opens the window - and she lives on the North Coast, so it's not always balmy.  She smokes outside often.  Her study stinks, but the rest of the house is clean.  She smokes her cigarettes by halves.  

    With his health problems and the availability of nicotine supplements, he has no excuse.  Put the d_mned cancer sticks down and find some other way to get his nicotine fix!

    Parent

    Your brother is faced with a challenge (none / 0) (#74)
    by Inspector Gadget on Sun Oct 11, 2009 at 12:39:26 PM EST
    much more difficult than anything Obama is dealing with on these issues he simply has to sign off on.


    Parent
    Feh (none / 0) (#21)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Oct 10, 2009 at 07:58:04 PM EST
    so what else is new? Obama thinks that speeches will solve any problem. All this is probably going to come home to roost on his head the next two election cycles when people sit home.

    Parent
    A stroke of the pen (none / 0) (#68)
    by mmc9431 on Sun Oct 11, 2009 at 09:08:57 AM EST
    Obama's had a perfect opening for repealing DADT. I believe all of our European allies in Afghanistan and Iraq allow gays to openly serve. Has this created any of the horrors that the backers of DADT fear?

    I think the anti gay people are afraid that when the military ends it's discrimination policy, all these other anti gay laws will fall.

    Parent

    The Times story on the topic (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by andgarden on Sat Oct 10, 2009 at 10:51:54 PM EST
    is just about perfect. I'm rarely so satisfied with their coverage.

    Parent
    I'm hoping you feel liberated (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by ruffian on Sat Oct 10, 2009 at 07:11:13 PM EST
    rather than missing it, though we will miss you!

    Have a wonderful peaceful week. Sounds fantastic.

    I'm on strike against the outdoors (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by ruffian on Sat Oct 10, 2009 at 07:21:29 PM EST
    Record heat here in Orlando. I'm just too sick of it to venture out. Went to the dog park early, then spent all day reading (The Alexandria Quartet, partway through the second installment, 'Balthazar') and watching movies (Surveillance, Delgo...so far. Maybe Sicko after that. Those are the  Neflix I have out.). Or back to reading...

    I need to walk the dog, just for his exercise since he can do his business in the back yard, but it is still 86 and I'm not sure I can make myself do it. He's not asking for a walk, so we may just skip it and get to the park early tomorrow morning.

    Where the heck is fall? It's already winter in Denver, for pete's sake!

    A midnight walk might work (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by nycstray on Sat Oct 10, 2009 at 07:42:46 PM EST
    or predawn. My Dot doesn't like heat/humidity and will not ask for a walk (thank Dawg!) when it's like that. But if I take her out between midnight and dawn, we can get some blocks in. I've even taken her to the park. You find folks in the dog run and runners doing laps :) We only do that during long heatwaves though. Most of the time it's just blocks and wandering.

    here's hoping you get a cool down!

    Parent

    Just started a big thunderstorm (none / 0) (#19)
    by ruffian on Sat Oct 10, 2009 at 07:46:25 PM EST
    Maybe it will cool things off a little and we can go out later.

    It is mostly the accumulation of 4 months of this that has me fed up. On any given day it is livable!

    Parent

    Totally understand! (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by nycstray on Sat Oct 10, 2009 at 08:28:45 PM EST
    I was very thankful for the cooler and shorter summer this year. It just gets so tiring with endless hot/humid days. Past summers I would take to sleeping more during the day and living during the night hours. Working for myself made that possible. One thing I did when starting to look for places to live in CA, was do the year round weather maps. I do not want to live where it hits between 90-100 all summer, I don't care how "dry" the freakin' heat is. And also, how low the temp went in the winter and for how long, lol!~ I can do without the zero and below wind chills, TYVM! So far the only place I've ever lived where the temp suited me was San Francisco.

    Parent
    Just so draining (none / 0) (#38)
    by ruffian on Sat Oct 10, 2009 at 08:41:49 PM EST
    And here it doesn't cool down all that much at night either.  I agree about Sf weather - that would suit me too.  I lived in Southern California for 12 years also, and that was also fine weather for me. It cools off at night, and the mornings were still pretty cool, so you got some respite from the hot afternoons.

    I'm with you on the dry heat. I guess it is marginally preferable to feel like you are in a sauna rather than a steam room - at least you are not wet all the time! All in all I;ll take SF or the northwest!

    Parent

    I'm the same way (none / 0) (#70)
    by jen on Sun Oct 11, 2009 at 09:59:02 AM EST
    re: weather. Favorite places I've lived -- Central coast CA (from SF down to Monterey/Big Sur area) and the high Sierras -- particularly Tahoe. All pricey, but if you can do it, so worth it! Of course with the weather changing everywhere, you never know. When I was in high school at the Lake, winter temps rarely ever got below 20s. Now, it's not unusual to get into the teens and sometimes even single digits. Same with summers. Was rare to see anything above high 80s. Last few summers we've had heat waves for days up into the 90s. Still. Better than anywhere else I've ever lived.

    Parent
    I'd trade! (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by mmc9431 on Sat Oct 10, 2009 at 08:36:24 PM EST
    It's only in the 40's in Chicago. We've been 15 to 20 degrees below normal for over two weeks. Had a hard freeze last night that killed off everything in the garden already. And the forcast for the next week is just as bad.

    I think we're going to have a very long winter again.

    Parent

    Oy. (none / 0) (#39)
    by nycstray on Sat Oct 10, 2009 at 08:42:01 PM EST
    So far the jet stream hasn't been sending your weather our way! We may get a bit of cooling via Canada, but so far I haven't started watching your weather to predict ours :) I'm so not ready for frost. We've been cooling down gradual and I hope it continues that way. Makes it easier when it does get winter cold.

    I agree though, I think we are in for a winter this year . . . I'll be in NoCA for part of it. Still cold, but it will feel a lot warmer I predict!

    Parent

    Just for this week, I would trade ;-) (none / 0) (#40)
    by ruffian on Sat Oct 10, 2009 at 08:43:55 PM EST
    Having grown up near Chicago, I would not sign up for those winters again! Hope it is not as bad as you fear this year.

    Parent
    Enjoy and stay out of the sweat lodges~ (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by hairspray on Sat Oct 10, 2009 at 07:21:33 PM EST


    OMG, how horrible (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by ruffian on Sat Oct 10, 2009 at 07:52:35 PM EST
    I wonder what the cause will turn out to be?  

    Parent
    I expect criminal stupidity (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by Fabian on Sun Oct 11, 2009 at 05:57:48 AM EST
    to be the cause.  To be precise, heat stroke, electrolyte imbalance or both.

    You need to monitor anything outside of norms carefully.  Anyone with existing health problems - obesity, hypertension, heart or lung problems - is going to be more at risk.

    If there was any herbal colonic cleansing in combination with the sweat lodge, I hope someone ends up in court.  Inducing diarrhea is one way to create dehydration and electrolyte imbalances.  Drinking plenty of water afterward can actually make the imbalance worse.  Add in high temperatures and you have a recipe for disaster - especially if no one is responsible for monitoring participants for signs of distress.

    (IIRC - Native American sweat lodges tend to be uncomfortably warm, but not boil-a-lobster hot because the ceremonies can last overnight.)

    Parent

    I will for sure (none / 0) (#9)
    by Jeralyn on Sat Oct 10, 2009 at 07:36:32 PM EST
    what an unsettling story to read the day before I leave. After reading this, I can say it's definitely not one I'd visit anyway. (Seems to be a self-help place for those seeking "enlightenment." )

    Parent
    Native Americans have gained sweat lodges (none / 0) (#54)
    by oculus on Sat Oct 10, 2009 at 11:08:36 PM EST
    in California state correctional facilities.  Religious freedom.

    Parent
    Jeralyn, I think you might be surprised (5.00 / 2) (#15)
    by Anne on Sat Oct 10, 2009 at 07:39:57 PM EST
    how easily you let go of blogging; there's a lot of liberation to be found in being in a position where you have no choice!

    It isn't that often when we get the chance to just live in the moment, so enjoy it for all it's worth...you'll be glad you did when you look back on your week away.

    Have a great time; we'll look forward to a full report!

    Busy from 6AM to 10? Your idea of a vacation (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by tigercourse on Sat Oct 10, 2009 at 07:43:14 PM EST
    and my idea of a vacation diverge slightly. But I hope you have a good time.

    Happy trails, TL. (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by scribe on Sat Oct 10, 2009 at 07:59:08 PM EST
    I'm packing, too.  Only, I'm packing to move out.  The sale of my current residence seems to be going forward and we've set a date to close the sale for next Thursday.  

    So, by the time you get back, I'll most likely be on the road somewhere.

    Enjoy (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by sher on Sat Oct 10, 2009 at 08:11:53 PM EST
    your respite.....

    Happy vacay, Jeralyn! (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by Fabian on Sun Oct 11, 2009 at 06:03:54 AM EST
    It's good to get away from it all.

    I'd rather bring it all to me.  All I want is my own on-call staff of domestic help and personal attendants.  My idea of heaven is walking downstairs to a breakfast that is ready.  Okay, not breakfast.  I'm a morning person.  What I want first thing is a goodly portion of protein, carbs and incidental fats.  A real meal!

    I think those pork sirloin chops are waiting for a nice garlic/salt/oil marinade....

    Jeralyn, you're probably gone (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by jen on Sun Oct 11, 2009 at 10:02:07 AM EST
    but hope you have a safe, relaxing, rejuvenating trip. You'll be missed around here!

    thanks, I'm at the airport gate (5.00 / 3) (#72)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Oct 11, 2009 at 11:15:41 AM EST
    Got here over an hour early. I'm very psyched. I think the TL kid, who drove me to the airport, is even more excited than me that I'm doing this.

    Parent
    Chilly (well 65) and overcast in So Cal. (none / 0) (#73)
    by oculus on Sun Oct 11, 2009 at 11:40:11 AM EST
    but much, much warmer than Denver.

    Parent
    Watching 'Sicko' (none / 0) (#35)
    by ruffian on Sat Oct 10, 2009 at 08:35:18 PM EST
    Educational, darkly humorous, and infuriating. I wish I thought this was going to get fixed anytime soon.  In the very simplest terms, why do people in this country insist on getting ripped off by insurance companies?  I may have to turn this off.

    Remember (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sat Oct 10, 2009 at 10:07:20 PM EST
    as you're watching that Michael Moore supports Obama's "plan".

    Parent
    What plan? (none / 0) (#75)
    by Inspector Gadget on Sun Oct 11, 2009 at 12:43:48 PM EST
    Has Obama finally laid out a plan?


    Parent
    Dodger's sweep Cardinals! (none / 0) (#37)
    by mmc9431 on Sat Oct 10, 2009 at 08:37:24 PM EST


    Edwards speech wrtier (none / 0) (#42)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Sat Oct 10, 2009 at 10:05:02 PM EST
    Edwards speech wrtier's experience with Mass universal care.

    That's powerful stuff. (none / 0) (#45)
    by dk on Sat Oct 10, 2009 at 10:15:15 PM EST
    I hope the people she spent time writing for will take a moment to read it.

    Parent
    Yeah (none / 0) (#46)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sat Oct 10, 2009 at 10:15:52 PM EST
    Sounds about right.

    Have to wonder why she moved from DC to a "Universal Health INSURANCE" state.  Such a place is ALWAYS going to be expensive with no TRUE public option.  I'd have researched the insurance situation in advance.

    Of course, I don't know any state that has decent healthcare coverage for what she paid in DC.  Here, that buys catastrophic coverage.

    Parent

    It would only buy catastrophic coverage (none / 0) (#48)
    by MO Blue on Sat Oct 10, 2009 at 10:34:52 PM EST
    here also.

    I think her point about the HCR that Congress is proposing could in fact result in a mess is very valid.

    Parent

    I understand (none / 0) (#60)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sun Oct 11, 2009 at 12:58:47 AM EST
    that perfectly...believe me.

    Parent
    Saturday Night Open Thread: Packing | 73 comments (73 topical)

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