home

Inside The CIA: Not Able To Say No To Torture?

Writing about Leon Panetta's selection as CIA Director, Ann Althouse quotes a misinformed (Brennan's statements in support of rendition and torture after leaving the CIA are what did him in, not his tenure at the CIA) NYTimes piece and draws and interesting conclusion - inside the CIA, they can not say no to torture:

[Quoting the NYTimes piece] "[Obama's] first choice for the job, John O. Brennan, had to withdraw his name amid criticism over his alleged role in the formation of the agency’s detention and interrogation program after the Sept. 11 attacks."

By contrast, Panetta wrote a piece in The Washington Monthly that said: "We cannot and we must not use torture under any circumstances. We are better than that." That's very nice, but . . . [i]f you aren't on the inside, dealing with the details and responsible for outcomes, it takes nothing to say that, and in fact, it's the most obvious opinion that anyone would take. . .

(Emphasis supplied.) Consider what Ms. Althouse is saying - that if you are "on the inside," saying no to torture is impossible. It seems to me that if that is true, then clearly the CIA could not have leadership come from inside its shop. More . . .

Of course, Panetta's saying no to torture was not his most important credential for becoming CIA Director, it was a bare minimum. The issue of experience in the CIA is what folks are hanging their hat on. It is funny to see the Right Wing now scrambling to find unmatchable virtues inside the CIA. They spent many years telling us just how incompetent and awful the CIA has been. My own view is that it is somewhere in the middle - the CIA is neither omniscient nor The Three Stooges. They are just another group of Beltway types who are not all they think they are.

Will Panetta do a good job? Who knows? He has done a good job in the government in the past. Maybe he won't this time. We'll see. But I do know one thing, it will be good to know that this won't be happening on Panetta's watch:

Mr. Iqbal was arrested early in 2002 in Jakarta, Indonesia, after boasting to members of an Islamic group that he knew how to make a shoe bomb, according to two senior American officials who were in Jakarta at the time.

Mr. Iqbal now denies ever having made the statement, but two days after his arrest, he said, the Central Intelligence Agency transferred him to Egypt. He was later shifted to the American prison at Bagram Air Base in Afghanistan, and ultimately to Guantánamo Bay.

Much of Mr. Iqbal’s account could not be independently corroborated. Two senior American officials confirmed that Mr. Iqbal had been “rendered” from Indonesia, but could not comment on, or confirm details of, how he was treated in custody. The Pentagon and C.I.A. deny using torture, and American diplomatic, military and intelligence officials agreed to talk about the case only on the condition of anonymity because the files are classified.

After Mr. Iqbal was picked up in Jakarta and interrogated for two days, American officials generally concluded that he was a braggart, a “wannabe,” and should be released, one of the senior American officials in Jakarta said. “He was a talker,” the senior American official said. “He wanted to believe he was more important than he was.”

There was no evidence that he had ever met Osama bin Laden, or had been to Afghanistan, the two senior American officials said. But in the atmosphere of fear and confusion in the months after Sept. 11, 2001, Mr. Iqbal was secretly moved to Egypt for further interrogation, said one of the senior American officials.

Mr. Iqbal said he had been beaten, tightly shackled, covered with a hood and given drugs, subjected to electric shocks and, because he denied knowing Mr. bin Laden, deprived of sleep for six months. “They make me blind and stand up for whole days,” he said in halting English, meaning that he had been covered with a hood or blindfolded.

John Brennan could not say no to that and not only does not say no to it now, says we must keep doing this. Apparently, this is the view from "the inside." If so, "the inside" needs to be out. And that is what the choice of Panetta means. The United States will not torture people during the Obama Administration. If that bothers Ann Althouse, Diane Feinstein, Jay Rockefeller and John Brennan, well, they were not elected President. Barack Obama was. And he promised the American People that the United States would not torture. He is keeping his word.

Speaking for me only

< Gov't. Asks Court to Revoke Madoff's Bond | Tuesday Morning Open Thread >
  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft


  • Display: Sort:
    I'm not that confident. (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by Fabian on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 07:55:41 AM EST
    But I assume that if the CIA does torture people, it will be on a small scale and tightly managed to avoid unpleasant publicity.

    Torture and abuse goes hand in hand with authority and secrecy.  We can't keep police departments from abusing and torturing people.  We can't keep our military from doing it.  I doubt we can keep the CIA from doing it, but perhaps we can keep it from being an official practice.

    If Obama withdraws their torture memo (none / 0) (#4)
    by lilburro on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 08:16:29 AM EST
    and Panetta says torture is not going to happen, it is not going to happen.  

    And if and when it does, those that torture won't have a golden shield to protect them.

    Parent

    Panetta has an interesting history (none / 0) (#6)
    by Molly Bloom on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 08:29:18 AM EST
    See Perlstein by way of Digby on Panetta.

    Two weeks later Leon Panetta picked up the Washington Daily News and read an article about himself: "Nixon Seeks To Fire HEW's Rights Chief for Liberal Views." He dutifully submitted his resignation that Tuesday. Then he delivered a speech to the National Education Association: "The cause of justice is being destroyed not by direct challenge but by indirection, by confusion, by disunity, and by a lack of leadership and commitment to a truly equal society." Six of Panetta's subordinates resigned in solidarity.

    I think Leon Panetta will do well.

    Parent

    Well, whether or not they would have (none / 0) (#10)
    by dk on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 08:48:26 AM EST
    a golden shield to protect them would depend partly on the calculus of how politically damaging it would be to Obama.  Pols are pols.

    Parent
    Bravo (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by lilburro on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 07:58:31 AM EST
    I think we are all pretty familiar with Bush's intelligence policies.  Exactly how familiar do you have to be?  You don't change extraordinary rendition - you eliminate it.

    Now it's up to Panetta to replace the people in Operations who have very dirty hands (Kappes).  He gets to appoint his Deputy Director.

    The choice of Panetta signals to me that Obama is serious about reforming intelligence contracting.  Hopefully the lower-level guys and gals in the CIA will not have to take out professional liability insurance all the time.  

    I wrote up Panetta on my blog here.  

    Paneta's "Lipstick on the Pig" (none / 0) (#13)
    by tokin librul on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 09:21:24 AM EST
    No "intel" experience? Just what the Doctors ordered. Men typically do not see what their jobs depend on their ignoring...

    He was named precisely so nobody already in place at CIA would have to step forward and take responsibility, or have to resign for prior 'errors of judgment.'

    Parent

    Why does Bayh ... (none / 0) (#22)
    by ryanwc on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 01:23:24 PM EST
    ... in the Bloomberg article come out for Panetta and immediately say that he wants Kappes to stay on:
    "I hope we can convince both Mr. Panetta and Mr. Kappes to work together at CIA for the sake of our country."

    Parent
    While I do think Obama could have handled (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by Anne on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 08:25:17 AM EST
    the nomination better - I have to wonder why he seems to have such a good time wooing Republicans on a host of issues, but can't apparently spend the time to sell fellow Democrats on a potential nominee - it grates on me terribly that people like Feinstein and Rockefeller, who failed, over and over again, to stand up to the Republican machine on many fronts, who have had the power in the last two years to effect some changes and demand accountability, now want to draw themselves up in indignation and declare that only an intelligence professional has what it takes to run the CIA.

    Do I think the CIA has a culture that is unique among government agencies?  Yes, I think it probably does.  And I think the potential is there for an outsider to be pretty effectively neutralized and bamboozled by those on the inside who want to protect that culture from any significant change.  

    Knowing how resistant and fearful people are of change, and understanding the inherent tension that exists between the Congress and the agencies, I am hard-pressed to understand what Obama could possibly have been thinking in not running Panetta by those who have the power to quash the nomination.  Unless this is some kind of head-fake that will result in Panetta withdrawing from consideration, and Obama nominating someone who, in pleasing the Feinsteins and Rockefellers and their ilk, will likely be the equivalent of that FISA vote: a betrayal on so many levels.

    Something tells me the drama has finally found Obama, and will become a comfortable and constant presence.  

    And I am getting the queasy feeling that we are being played.  Again.

    Oh, joy.


    Actually I suspect (none / 0) (#17)
    by cenobite on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 11:36:43 AM EST
    That Brennan was Feinstein and Rockefeller's pick, and after that fiasco the administration cut them out of the process, and deservedly so.

    Parent
    Even if they had been approached first, (none / 0) (#25)
    by Frank Burns on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 01:53:12 PM EST
    They would not have approved of the choice of Panetta. They most likely would have had their surrogates begin undermining it well before it could be announced, hoping to derail it. Doing it this way puts them on defense. They now have to publicly go against the very formidable political capital Obama has right now.

    Parent
    This is my take, as well. (none / 0) (#30)
    by KeysDan on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 05:07:34 PM EST
    It is my guess that the Obama team knew that Feinstein favored a "professional"  (i.e., someone in the tank with her opinions  and interests) over Panetta, so it was better to make the nomination without consultation and send Biden out with an oops, so sorry, Diane.  Now, if Feinstein opposes Panetta, it will appear that she is just petty and piqued at a slight. If she still thinks that would be a good position for her, she can check with Newt Gingrich (re: I got a bad seat on AirForce One, so I will stop the government).

    Parent
    The real problem is that we (none / 0) (#1)
    by inclusiveheart on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 07:50:10 AM EST
    are dealing with people like DiFi who are not clever enough to imagine and design better and more effective means than these blunt force policies through which we could achieve our security goals.  

    DiFi along with many others in Congress have been brainwashed over the past many years with scary "24" stories and are clearly now "pro torture".  

    Now they are going to either have to go along or voice their desire to continue the practice of institutionalized torture.  That puts them in an interesting political position to say the least.

    If the only solutions that a person can think of consistently involve violence, then I don't have a lot of respect for that person's intellect.  Personally, I see great irony in the fact that DiFi is now chairing the Senate "Intelligence" Committee.

    get people with experience to do interrogation (none / 0) (#8)
    by popsnorkle on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 08:39:03 AM EST
    While I think it was good to choose someone who says no to torture, the Panetta quote "If torture can stop the next terrorist attack..." concerns me too.  Does he really think it can stop attacks or does he realize that there are better interrogation techniques? People outside the CIA that have been using them for a long time.  The mistake was putting the CIA in charge of an area they had no experience with.

    Parent
    Bears repeating (none / 0) (#15)
    by Salo on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 10:08:52 AM EST
    If an agent commits the crime of torture, and it turns out that there is a ticking nuke the jury will dismiss the charges and the torturor will be hero with fat book deal.

    Parent
    That may be true (none / 0) (#16)
    by popsnorkle on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 10:20:00 AM EST
    but the point is its unlikely.  Aside from the moral issues, torture is more likely to get information that sends you off on a goose chase while the nuke ticks.

    I'm hoping that the CIA chief realizes there are better ways.

    Parent

    if it's so obvioius... (none / 0) (#18)
    by diogenes on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 12:01:53 PM EST
    If it's so obvious that torture or the potential threat of torture can never be of any use to any intelligence agency, then don't you think that career CIA and Mossad people would say so?  After all, they must look pretty bad being sent on wild goose chases all the time.  The wiser, nontorturing sorts would probably have been promoted past them by now.  


    Parent