home

Other News and Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 10:32:05 AM EST
Tags: (all tags)
Share This: Digg! StumbleUpon del.icio.us reddit reddit

For those following topics in addition to the economy, which BTD is doing a heroic job covering, here's some news of note:

  • Guantanamo proseuctor quits. Lt. Col. Darrel Vandeveld believed he had evidence showing detainee did not commit charged crime, was precluded from sharing it.

More...

This is an open thread. I'll be back this afternoon.

< Bill Clinton On The Wall Street Crisis | Obama To Do Townhall If McCain Skips Debate >

  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft


    • Display: Sort:
    Other News and Open Thread | 118 comments (118 topical)

    Readers Must Login or Create an Account to Comment

    Man (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by Steve M on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 10:45:24 AM EST
    Here is a really scummy post by Steve Benen.  The CDS never frickin' ends, does it?

    Never mind all the good the Clinton Global Initiative is accomplishing around the world, the real issue is that Bill Clinton doesn't run it in a sufficiently partisan fashion.  That guy sure sucks, doesn't he?

    Omg (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by Faust on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 11:05:14 AM EST
    read the comments section of that post. THAT is some CDS.

    Parent
    MSNBC reports that McCain (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by litigatormom on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 11:04:34 AM EST
    is now saying that he cancelled on Letterman, while appearing on Katie Couric and at the CGI because he thought it was inappropriate to do comedy during the financial crisis.

    This doesn't explain why he lied to Lieberman about rushing back to DC.  It also doesn't deal with the fact that so many of McCain's appearances are comedic. Maybe black comedy, but still comedy.

    That's terrible (none / 0) (#15)
    by Steve M on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 11:10:18 AM EST
    You just referred to Dave as "Lieberman."  You will have to do some serious penance for that.

    Parent
    Bless me Father for I have sinned (5.00 / 3) (#43)
    by litigatormom on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 12:04:56 PM EST
    It has been a long time since my last confession.

    I yelled at my children twice.

    I cheated on my diet three times.

    I swiped some crackers from the firm cafeteria without paying for them.

    I called David Letterman's name in vain.  I used the Name of the Beast to refer to him.  It was an accident but I deserve to perform a heavy penance.

    I will say five Our Fathers, Five Hail Marys, and watch the entire Sarah Palin interview with Katie Couric five times.

    Will you forgive me, Father?

    Parent

    Ahh, that sure brings back the... (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 12:20:01 PM EST
    ...memories!  It's been a looooooong time since I was forced to enter the booth and list my transgressions.  I imagine it would take a few hours to list all of them since the last time.  Not to mention the penance...  

    You are forgiven, now go forth and sin no more, my child.  

    Parent

    Ditto. (none / 0) (#72)
    by byteb on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 12:48:51 PM EST
    I wonder how many more lapsed Catholics are here?  :)

    Parent
    How about making up the sins? (none / 0) (#82)
    by BarnBabe on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 01:13:22 PM EST
    I would think, ok, must tell him something. So I would do the talk back, lied, ate meat on Friday thing. I always ate meat on Friay even before they changed their minds and said, Oh, it is ok now. Heh.

    Parent
    in school, we'd all (none / 0) (#92)
    by byteb on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 01:46:57 PM EST
    either pick the foreign exchange priest who didn't understand English very well or the elderly priest who had bad hearing.  We all hated going to Confession.

    Parent
    I was never fond of... (none / 0) (#98)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 02:17:43 PM EST
    ...confession, but what really ticked me off was having to go to CCD on Saturday mornings.  I did not at all like my cartoon viewing being interfered with!

    Parent
    My kids are with you on that <eom> (none / 0) (#102)
    by votermom on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 02:24:29 PM EST


    Parent
    Eddie Izzard (none / 0) (#97)
    by jedimom on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 02:11:22 PM EST
    ahhh yes Eddie Izzard has a line on that from his show Dress to Kill

    looking for an 'original' sin, one never done before..

    here:

    http://tinyurl.com/2cxsag

    Parent

    Five Hail Mary's? (none / 0) (#104)
    by CoralGables on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 02:36:15 PM EST
    That's not a penance, that's a John McCain imitation.

    Parent
    Ha. Same reason Obama gave (none / 0) (#25)
    by Cream City on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 11:36:24 AM EST
    for cancelling out on SNL -- for the sake of the hurricane hitting, y'know, Galveston.

    I don't believe either of them, and they need their staffs to do better than this at creative excuses.  Heck, my students do better than this.

    Parent

    So you believed him? (none / 0) (#111)
    by Cream City on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 04:45:59 PM EST
    I hope you don't teach.  You're way too gullible to survive the students' excuses.  

    I will believe you that it was the hurricane with the G and not the hurricane with the I.  I oughta looked it up so as not to let the likes of you claim that makes a difference, but I don't spend time on making excuses for either of these candidates.  They're doing fine in doing so all by themselves.

    Parent

    all day yesterday (none / 0) (#47)
    by TimNCGuy on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 12:09:05 PM EST
    all I heard out of the McCain camp was that he was returning to DC  AFTER he spoke at the CGI.  So, what is inconsistent in what he said yesterday than what he is doing today?

    Parent
    It just doesn't match up with what (none / 0) (#99)
    by JoeA on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 02:18:21 PM EST
    McCain supposedly told Letterman on the phone when cancelling.

    Parent
    SUSA Sez: (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by andgarden on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 11:20:11 AM EST
    PA close, but for Obama:

    Obama 50
    McCain 44

    Crosstabs not up yet.

    Yes, I'm still worried about PA.

    And (none / 0) (#18)
    by andgarden on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 11:27:33 AM EST
    here are the crosstabs

    Parent
    Look at this from a strategic POV (none / 0) (#20)
    by andgarden on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 11:32:26 AM EST
    If Obama wins CO, and it's looking like he will, McCain HAS to win Pennsylvania or Michigan. Even if he wins NH, he still can't get past 269 without PA.

    Think about it this way: Pennsylvania and Michigan are to McCain as Ohio and Florida were to Kerry and Gore.

    Parent

    McCain needs (none / 0) (#56)
    by TimNCGuy on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 12:23:01 PM EST
    to win two of these....VA, WI, MN, MI   if he loses PA

    Parent
    If he loses VA, PA pretty much doesn't matter (none / 0) (#61)
    by andgarden on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 12:26:21 PM EST
    Though I admit that VA might be slightly more Democratic than PA this year--a real turnaround.

    I'm telling you, though. For McCain, it's pick one or he's done: PA, MI, or CO.

    Parent

    My hunch is (none / 0) (#21)
    by lilburro on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 11:33:02 AM EST
    that Palin does not play as well in PA as she may in other states in the Midwest/West.  I don't know if there is any hard evidence of that though.

    Parent
    I don't think she has much, if anything, (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by andgarden on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 11:36:03 AM EST
    to do with it. It's the economy.

    Parent
    I agree (none / 0) (#42)
    by lilburro on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 12:02:34 PM EST
    but I think if she does have a positive effect somewhere, PA's not the place.

    Parent
    There's alot of hunters in PA (none / 0) (#54)
    by votermom on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 12:21:23 PM EST
    who like Gov. Palin a lot.

    Parent
    I think PA (none / 0) (#58)
    by TimNCGuy on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 12:24:03 PM EST
    has the largest percentage of hunting population in the country.

    Parent
    Pa has the second-highest (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by liminal on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 12:39:43 PM EST
    number of hunters, per the USF&WS survey from 2006, at 1 million plus, just below Texas, but the states with the highest % of population as hunters are:

    Montana - 19%
    North Dakota - 17%
    South Dakota - 15%
    Arkansas, Maine, West Virginia - 14%
    Minnesota, Missouri, Wyoming - 13%

    There are a powerful lot of hunters in PA, though.  

    Parent

    It must be all the deer. LOL <eom> (none / 0) (#59)
    by votermom on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 12:25:21 PM EST


    Parent
    How was Kerry (none / 0) (#23)
    by WS on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 11:35:53 AM EST
    polling at this point in PA?  

    Parent
    10/6/04, Kerry 49, Bush 47 (none / 0) (#27)
    by andgarden on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 11:38:01 AM EST
    here PDF.

    Parent
    I've heard (none / 0) (#26)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 11:37:18 AM EST
    that the get out the vote people in PA won't be doing it for Obama. In fact, they didn't show up for the meeting with his campaign is what I heard. Have you heard the same thing? (Rendell is NOT included in this, just rank and file)

    Parent
    You heard wrong (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by andgarden on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 11:38:45 AM EST
    AND Obama learned his lesson during the primary: he's paying street money in Philly this time.

    Parent
    Not Philly (none / 0) (#31)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 11:40:36 AM EST
    and understand that Obama DID pay street money during the primary. It just wasn't enough to overcome the votes in the rest of the state.

    Parent
    Well, even if he did pay street money, (none / 0) (#33)
    by andgarden on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 11:42:52 AM EST
    Obama didn't get the vote total he could have out of Philly. He won't make that mistake again.

    As to the rest of the state: Republican FUD.

    Parent

    All I know is (none / 0) (#45)
    by litigatormom on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 12:06:46 PM EST
    My daughter in Connecticut is going with a busload of other students to do GOTV in the Scranton area several times in the next few weeks.

    Parent
    Scranton is tough for Obama (none / 0) (#48)
    by andgarden on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 12:11:22 PM EST
    Your daughter should be prepared to have the door slammed in her face, even by Democrats.

    Parent
    She's tough (none / 0) (#53)
    by litigatormom on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 12:20:17 PM EST
    and she's committed. And she was a Hillary supporter too. She's also beeen doing phone banking, and she's already gotten a lot of hangups.

    But every additional vote is important in PA.

    Parent

    Good to hear (none / 0) (#57)
    by andgarden on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 12:23:28 PM EST
    Pennsylvania is the Keystone State, and McCain can't win without it IMO.

    Parent
    The Obama campaign (none / 0) (#81)
    by byteb on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 01:12:34 PM EST
    has been reaching out to supporters in the states near PA to travel to assigned areas in PA and go door to door. The response has been been strong and I hear that when volunteers arrive, the field offices are prepared and well organized. I'm going with friends the weekend of Oct 18th, so I shall see for myself. One of my friends was an enthusiastic Hillary supporter who was so outraged by Palin, that she's donated and now traveling to PA.

    Parent
    Where did you hear that? (none / 0) (#28)
    by WS on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 11:38:45 AM EST
    I read in an article that Obama will pay street money in Philly.  Thats a good thing for GOTV.  

    Parent
    I'm not (none / 0) (#30)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 11:39:41 AM EST
    talking about Philly, it's the rest of the state is what I heard.

    Parent
    Isn't Rendell and Casey (none / 0) (#32)
    by WS on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 11:42:06 AM EST
    in charge of the GOTV in PA (other than the Obama campaign of course)?

    Parent
    I don't (none / 0) (#36)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 11:44:26 AM EST
    know about Casey but I think Rendell is. It's Rendell's people outside Philly that didn't show up for the meetings is what I heard.

    Parent
    Maybe Not That They Didn't Show Up (none / 0) (#49)
    by daring grace on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 12:12:49 PM EST
    so much as they feel like they're not being asked to show up.

    From Philly.com

    "David L. Cohen, Gov. Rendell's closest counselor over two decades in politics, said he hears all the time from Democratic insiders - some miffed because Obama doesn't appear to want their help or advice - that the Illinois senator is somehow "blowing it" in Pennsylvania.

    "Cohen said he tells the worriers, "Calm down, calm down, take a breath." He says he can't remember a better-run campaign than Obama's."

    Parent

    I know a number of people (none / 0) (#123)
    by CST on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 10:49:02 PM EST
    personally who are working the ground game and getting out the vote in Philly and Pittsburgh.

    And I heard from the Pittsburgh people that there were a lot of other Obama people out doing the same...

    so they may just have different "get out the vote" people now.

    Parent

    CNN had Pennsylvania (none / 0) (#34)
    by scribe on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 11:43:39 AM EST
    at Obama 53- McCain 44 yesterday.  A little more depth, here:

    Obama has also apparently won supporters in Pennsylvania, which has voted for the Democrats in the last four presidential elections. The new poll indicates Obama has a 9 point lead over McCain among likely voters, 53 percentto 44 percent, and a similar 9 point advantage among registered voters. That's up from a 4 point advantage Obama held in the Keystone state in late August,the last time CNN polled there. Twenty-one electoral votes are up for grabs in Pennsylvania.

    "Obama's biggest gains in Pennsylvania come in the areas of the state that have been hardest-hit by the economy -- particularly rural areas in the western and central part of the state," Holland said. "That may be an early indication that the financial crisis on Wall Street will help Obama even in places like Altoona and Erie."

    Right now, that's the largest spread I've seen for PA, but if Obama's gaining in the "central T" of Pennsylvania counties (where it's typcially R+20 and more), he's going to win there if he can hold even half of the gain.

    Parent

    I believe it's possible that he could (none / 0) (#39)
    by andgarden on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 11:50:22 AM EST
    improve his margins in central PA.

    Kerry got killed in some of those counties 70-20.

    Parent

    True, but the saving grace for Kerry (none / 0) (#40)
    by scribe on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 12:01:01 PM EST
    having been killed in those counties 70-20, was that those counties might only have 5,000 or 10,000 votes cast.

    One comes to mind:  Elk County, population, about 35,000.  So named, because elk lived there (and still do- the only place east of the Mississippi).  This year's primary results showed about 20,000 registered voters with about 9,500 votes cast, and (given the high interest in the Dem side - remember? ) a 55D -45R split on the ballots cast.  HRC won 64-34.
    On the R side, the split was McSame 68, Paul 10+, and Huck 13.

    How it breaks out will be anyone's guess, but I'd suspect Obama has engendered a lot of excitement and if he can even come close in a county like Elk, he'll win the Commonwealth.

    Parent

    Let's be honest (none / 0) (#44)
    by andgarden on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 12:05:35 PM EST
    The reason Bush came close is that he and his team produced votes in Pensyltucky that no one believed even existed.

    Seriously, compare the vote totals in 2000 to 2004 and 2006.

    The good news is that if you add together Hillary's votes in the primary with Obama's, you see that they got about as many votes as Al Gore did in 2000 in PA.

    Parent

    Well, I'm supposed to be working (none / 0) (#51)
    by scribe on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 12:16:01 PM EST
    and took the few minutes I could spare to look only at the most recent election in the jurisdiction.  You want to compare prior elections - go ahead.  But, 2008 is not 2000, nor is it 2004.

    I stand by my conclusion - that if Obama can even come close to McCain in a seriously-rural, seriously-conservative, 98.96% white, 0.15% black county like Elk, he can have a good expectation of winning PA.

    Parent

    Wiki doesn't seem to be in... (none / 0) (#50)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 12:14:02 PM EST
    ...agreement with the whole "elk" issue:

    "The Rocky Mountain elk subspecies has been reintroduced by hunter-conservation organizations in the Appalachian region of the eastern U.S., where the now extinct Eastern elk once lived[22] After elk were reintroduced in the states of Kentucky, North Carolina and Tennessee, they migrated into the neighboring states of Virginia and West Virginia, and have established permanent populations there.[23] Elk have also been reintroduced to a number of other states, including Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin."

    Parent

    Ok, fair enough. (none / 0) (#60)
    by scribe on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 12:25:39 PM EST
    It seems Kentucky started reintroducing them about 10 years ago and they've been doing well and spread out since.  In Pa. they were re-introduced about 1910, and have been holding on against civilization since.

    Parent
    I don't imagine... (none / 0) (#63)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 12:31:21 PM EST
    ...they have too many natural preditors left out East anymore?  

    Even out West with cougars and wolves--and a long hunting season, it is hard to keep a lid on their population.  

    Parent

    In the suburbs, deer are pests (none / 0) (#65)
    by andgarden on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 12:33:33 PM EST
    constantly ripping up rhododendron from people's garden.

    Parent
    Have never seen... (none / 0) (#69)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 12:39:34 PM EST
    ...an elk go after a flower bed or an aspen?  They can put any deer to shame with their appetite and destructive capabilities.  

    Parent
    That's why their population in PA (none / 0) (#77)
    by scribe on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 12:54:34 PM EST
    has been small - they encroached on farms and suffered the consequences, legally or not.

    Parent
    Elk (none / 0) (#89)
    by liminal on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 01:40:09 PM EST
    Actually, there are actual elk in Kentucky, which is also east of the Mississippi.  

    They were re-introduced to the state in the late 1990s, and quite successfully.  This fall and winter, three Kentucky state parks will be offering elk tours, so that folks can see them up close (ish). The press release on those tours is here, in case any of y'all are close and want to go see 'em.  

    Parent

    Hah. (none / 0) (#91)
    by liminal on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 01:41:39 PM EST
    I started writing that reply an hour ago - and left it when someone else walked into the office.  Didn't mean to be repetitive!

    Parent
    From the "No Duh" files... (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 12:35:04 PM EST
    ...an article from the LA Times:

    'Medical bills swamping even insured folks

    "Increases in problems paying medical bills are affecting not only those who have always struggled with medical costs -- low income and uninsured people -- but also an increasing number of insured middle-income families," study author Peter J. Cunningham, a senior fellow at the center, said in a news release.

    The worst consequence, one felt by 2.2 million people, was bankruptcy as a result of medical bills. But even when the damage didn't hit quite that hard, people reported other financial disasters. They had problems paying for food and housing. And they were more likely to have unmet medical needs because of cost.'

    http://tinyurl.com/3uv8fz

    Great new video on McCain (1.50 / 2) (#78)
    by scribe on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 12:55:23 PM EST
    and his cancer.

    Has Obama quit smoking yet? (5.00 / 1) (#85)
    by tootired on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 01:25:39 PM EST
    Black men are 50% more likely to develop lung cancer than white men. For a male the odds of developing lung cancer are 1:13, and the number is much higher for smokers. Only about 15% of lung cancer victims are still alive after 5 years. You can ask me all about that. I lost both my mom and dad to lung cancer. Mom was a smoker, and dad breathed her second smoke for too many years. Every one of her children has had childhood asthma. I'd like to see a chest x-ray of Senator Obama. Then he can run this ad.

    Parent
    Hunters who smoke (none / 0) (#96)
    by jondee on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 02:08:30 PM EST
    like Obama alot. Somebody told me.

    Parent
    He lost my vote... (none / 0) (#114)
    by kdog on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 06:31:04 PM EST
    when he quit smoking:)

    Parent
    yeah (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 01:27:16 PM EST
    that sure was "great".


    Parent
    Wasn't his cancer treated (5.00 / 2) (#95)
    by votermom on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 02:06:44 PM EST
    8 years ago? His odds of dying from it now are pretty low, iinm.

    Parent
    Rasmussen (none / 0) (#1)
    by flyerhawk on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 10:40:28 AM EST
    has a new poll with Obama up in North Carolina by 2.

    Here you go

    Rasmussen tends to favor McCain so this is very good news.

    I tend to agree (none / 0) (#16)
    by flyerhawk on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 11:14:10 AM EST
    then again I am expecting a 330+ electoral vote win for Obama.  

    Parent
    Pakistan fired on two US helicopters (none / 0) (#4)
    by votermom on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 10:50:24 AM EST
    last night, claimed it was in their airspace.
    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601091&sid=axndybmpbo3w&refer=india

    I'm inclined to agree with them.... (none / 0) (#115)
    by kdog on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 06:33:40 PM EST
    I see any Pakistani attack helicopters off my coastline, I'm getting my slingshot.

    Parent
    Sad, but true... (none / 0) (#5)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 10:53:21 AM EST
    "A West Virginia man who police said passed gas and fanned it toward a patrolman has been charged with battery on a police officer."

    http://tinyurl.com/4qqq5z

    I'm surprised he wasn't charged with an act of terrorism and sent to Gitmo.  

    Where did you read that? (none / 0) (#6)
    by Steve M on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 10:54:33 AM EST
    In the "Breaking News" section?

    Parent
    As a matter of fact... (none / 0) (#9)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 10:58:55 AM EST
    ...yes.  Right after the article on poor, poor Janet Elway downsizing to a paultry 6200sf home--without a swimming pool even!!11!

    Parent
    Wow (none / 0) (#11)
    by Steve M on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 11:04:01 AM EST
    This economy really is hitting people hard.

    Parent
    It didn't smell bad enough for that. (none / 0) (#7)
    by scribe on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 10:55:09 AM EST


    Parent
    Somebody (none / 0) (#14)
    by eric on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 11:10:15 AM EST
    should have paid better attention in law school... pretty sure battery requires actual physical contact.  What is wrong with these people?


    Parent
    There are times, particularly after (none / 0) (#22)
    by scribe on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 11:35:43 AM EST
    a lot of beer or Tex-mex food, that the gaseous result has, indeed, a striking physical presence and not just a transitory olfactory one.  A room-clearing slap-in-the-face, even.  Seems likely you've never spent too much time in a hunting or fishing camp, otherwise you'd surely have known that.

    Parent
    In my circles... (none / 0) (#116)
    by kdog on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 06:36:52 PM EST
    thats the kind of thing friends do for each other:)

    Parent
    He has no chance whatsoever. Would (none / 0) (#8)
    by tigercourse on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 10:55:44 AM EST
    never make it out of the primary.

    %%norm_font_e