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Late Night: Nader Wants to Debate

Third party candidate Ralph Nader released this ad today showing similarities between McCain and Obama and then laying out his different positions. One big one: Nader is for "Across the board amnesty for all non-violent drug offenders."

Nader's time has passed, and I hope everyone will realize the choice between McCain and Obama is a choice between the failed Republican policies of the last 8 years and a chance to do things differently. I don't care to see either Bob Barr or Ralph Nader in the presidential debates.

That said...[More...]

I would like to see Nader's VP candidate, former public defender Matt Gonzales, in the Biden/Palin debate, just so the public could get a sense of what a progressive agenda is about on criminal justice issues. Between Biden, who's never met a crime bill he didn't like and Palin, who probably can't even understand one, it would be refreshing and enlightening in the way Dennis Kucinich, whose position on issues most closely match mine, was during the debates he participated in.

Nader and Gonzales are necessary voices. They know, as do we all, they can't win. But they get people thinking, and that's a start to real change.

Here's more on Gonzales, who as the Green party candidate for Mayor of San Francisco in 2003 garnered 47% of the vote against Democrat Gavin Newsom.

As with all late night posts, this is an open thread.

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  • Display: Sort:
    Could we be more vague? (5.00 / 5) (#8)
    by WakeLtd on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 12:02:44 AM EST
    "The chance to do things differently". Wow, I mean, chance is only one letter away from change -and differently? You know,after 8 years of, you know...

    "chance to do things differently" (5.00 / 3) (#22)
    by Andreas on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 01:43:25 AM EST
    Jeralyn knows that not everyone thinks that "the choice between McCain and Obama is a choice between the failed Republican policies of the last 8 years and a chance to do things differently."

    She is correct because there is no essential difference between those two candidates. Both are representatives of what is usually called "big business."

    In a further demonstration of his subservience to Wall Street, Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama said that the $700 billion bailout of US financial institutions now moving through Congress would force a delay in additional spending by an incoming Democratic administration.

    In an interview Tuesday morning with NBC's "Today" show, Obama said of the bailout, "How we're going to structure that in budget terms still has to be decided." He continued, "Does that mean I can do everything that I've called for in this campaign right away? Probably not. I think we're going to have to phase it in. And a lot of it's going to depend on what our tax revenues look like."

    The new spending Obama has proposed on programs like education, infrastructure and health care is so minimal, compared to the vast social need, that it doesn't deserve the label "reform." It is barely a sop. But even this is likely to be withheld initially, and then canceled outright once the cost of the Wall Street bailout mushrooms, as it inevitably will.

    Democrats signal support for Wall Street bailout at Senate hearing
    By Barry Grey, 24 September 2008

    Obama is far from an ideal candidate (none / 0) (#46)
    by litigatormom on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 12:54:19 PM EST
    but I can't understand why you think that there is no difference between McCain and Obama. There are many, many differences across many, many issues.

    If the basis of your view that there is no difference between them that you don't trust Obama to do what he says, why do you trust McCain to do what he's now saying -- reform Wall Street! kick out the lobbyist! we're winning the war! -- as opposed to bomb bomb bombing Iran or staying in Iraq until we achieve some undefinable victory that even General Petraeus doesn't believe we can achieve? Not to mention screwing up healthcare, appointing more Scalias and continuing to de-regulate every remaining sector of our economy?

    Parent

    Andreas (none / 0) (#62)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 03:15:58 PM EST
    is, as his links take you to, with the World Socialist Web Site. He is in Europe and has been adding his party's articles in comments here for years.

    And I do think there is a big difference between McCain and Obama and everybody knows it.

    Parent

    If only were not right... (5.00 / 3) (#23)
    by citizen53 on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 02:50:15 AM EST
    about the political system in America, but he is.

    Bill Moyers says the same thing.

    It will never change without these voices, for who will have the ability to listen or hear if they do not or cannot speak.

    Sorry, citizen. That metaphor makes no sense. (none / 0) (#36)
    by Don in Seattle on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 09:50:35 AM EST
    "Who will have the ability to listen or hear if they do not or cannot speak?"

    Babies, dogs, mutes, and people with laryngitis are all examples of ones who can hear, but cannot speak.

    Hearing is necessary for a baby to learn to speak, at least without great effort; but speech is not a requirement for hearing.

    Parent

    Ok, but that "baby" can't... (none / 0) (#48)
    by alexei on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 01:16:43 PM EST
    impart her ideas because she can't speak. So, what that "baby" has to say, can't be heard by others.

    So if Barr, Nader and McKinney are not allowed in the debates and the MSM ignores them, than they are not being heard by the vast majority of people.

    Since when is the sharing of ideas a bad thing?  Why is it wrong to have others representing views. policies, proposals that do not get addressed by the so-called major candidates, allowed in the "debates".

    Man, the Democratic "debates" had nine candidates. I think that the League of Women voters should take back the debates.

    Parent

    "baby", one would think I had made some offensive, probably sexist slur. Go back and read what I said in context -- I didn't use the word in any such way.

    I didn't call comrade53, or minor party candidates, or their supporters, or anyone else, a "baby" -- not any more than I called anyone a "dog".

    Parent

    Debates? Bully for Nader. He's right. (5.00 / 3) (#24)
    by withoutparty on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 03:03:03 AM EST
    Look, the day Obama does something to earn my vote, maybe THEN i will vote for him.

    Good on Nader for trying to get in the debates.

    I'm tired of dems and reupubs in the debates talking about hair dos and all sorts of irrelevant BS.  Good on Nader.  I will support him being out there.

    The only cowards who don't want him in the debates are Dean et al. who don't want their crappy power questioned.

    Good for Nader.

    You want democracy?  You think Obama is the answer?  You think he is "better" than Bush or McCain?  Puh-leezze.  

    Then why the hell are you so scared to have the only candidate who supports 1) immediate withdrawl from Iraq on Constitutional grounds 2) universal health care 3) immediate overturn of FISA (that obama supported, btw.)

    what do you need? (none / 0) (#41)
    by Iris on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 11:06:58 AM EST
    They are out there trying to win your vote every day.

    Parent
    Because Ralph Nader is a raging (none / 0) (#47)
    by litigatormom on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 12:56:28 PM EST
    egomaniac, and although I am in favor of liberalizing some aspects of our drug laws, it's hardly our first priority as a nation.

    I am tired of Ralph Nader. I don't want the presidential debates clogged up with every minor party candidate in the country. If you want to vote for Nader, go right ahead.  I  hope you are ready to enjoy the McCain administration.

    Parent

    Egomaniac? Sounds like an apt... (none / 0) (#49)
    by alexei on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 01:27:13 PM EST
    description of Obama/McCain.  Clogging the "debates"?  Hardly, this would actually bring to the fore other solutions and viewpoints besides what the "major" candidates want to discuss. The old boogie man meme about voting for Nader (which is an old bait and switch tactic since that is not the discussion topic) doesn't cut it.  Obama and McCain have to earn the votes, this isn't a "free lunch", ya know?

    BTW, I did subscribe to your POV in 2000, but, not any longer after what my Party has not done under Pelosi/Reid/Dean and what they did do in the nomination.

    Parent

    And I'm not prepared to (none / 0) (#51)
    by litigatormom on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 01:36:48 PM EST
    make the election of President McCain any easier. Perhaps elections shouldn't have to be binary choices, but with this much at stake, I think this year it has to be.

    And yes, the debates would be clogged.  How much information came out of the early primary debates with so many candidates in the field?  They were a complete waste of time. If Nader wants to raise issues, let him go around the country making speeches and getting himself booked on political and talk shows.

    Parent

    I am bothered (none / 0) (#53)
    by jar137 on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 01:53:38 PM EST
    by people who want to shut down public debate.  One of the benefits of third party candidates is that they have to swing for the fence in order to stay in the game, so they are more likely to speak directly and honestly to the American public.  And by doing so, they compel the two-party candidates to address their issues.  That is a good thing for democracy.  For my money, we have two of the worst options this election- which is very upsetting given the state of the nation.  Anything to add the people's voices to this election is a welcome idea.  Why are some people so afraid of open debates?

    Parent
    Nader can speak to the issues all he wants (none / 0) (#59)
    by litigatormom on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 02:38:31 PM EST
    I don't think the major party candidates can or should be compelled to share the stage with him or any other minor party candidate.

    Ross Perot participated in 1992 because he was polling over 20%.

    Parent

    You're parsing my point. (none / 0) (#68)
    by jar137 on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 05:54:56 PM EST
    The debates provide a forum (gratis) to present one's platform to the public, which is not the same as going around giving speeches.  By excluding other candidates from the debates, you are limiting our political system to two parties because at present third party candidates cannot raise enough cash (unless they're independently wealthy, see Perot) to make a strong run for the presidency.  I find your flippant response to be extremely shortsighted.  So long as the media/major parties decide who is "important" enough to participate in a public debate, we are never going to get real progressive change.  When your ox is gored some time in the future, I expect you will sing a different tune.

    Parent
    Alexei (none / 0) (#63)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 03:18:45 PM EST
    If you oppose Obama/Biden and the Democratic ticket, you are limited to four comments a day expressing that.

    Parent
    Quit whining (none / 0) (#60)
    by jondee on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 02:52:36 PM EST
    as if Ralph Nader were somehow resonsible for 50 mil + millenialist knuckle draggers viewing GWB as a reasonable candidate for President.

    Parent
    plus, we can't let people out of jail (none / 0) (#66)
    by of1000Kings on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 03:55:37 PM EST
    all the african-americans would be competing for jobs with us honest white-folk...

    us white-folk don't have enough jobs already...

    keep em in jail for having a few plants...

    /extremely bad, very offensive sarcasm off....

    Parent

    The big one... (5.00 / 2) (#27)
    by lentinel on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 06:57:56 AM EST
    Thanks for providing a link to the Nader ad. It is an eye-opener.

    You mention amnesty for non-violent drug offenders as the "big one" among Nader's positions.
    Good idea. About time. But there are other big ones also:

    Six months for getting out of Iraq. A major big one. The root cause of our economic and moral collapse.

    No to nuclear power. Yes to solar.

    How about a single payer health plan?

    How about going after Bush/Cheney for their demonstrable impeachable offenses. Don't we want to prevent these kinds of crimes in the future?

    What about an adequate task force for going after corporate crime?
    What about a minimum wage that would help people to survive?
    How about going after the telecoms instead of rewarding them for invading our privacy?

    The sad and funny thing about these issues is that they represent core democratic values. That is - they represent the views that used to be and should be held by the democratic party.
    Nader sounds like a democrat. So does Kucinich.

    The democrats, especially progressives, turned their backs on both of them. I believe that a democrat who ran as a democrat and represented these views forcefully would win in a landslide against a fossil like McCain and his party.

    But no. We have a horse race instead.

    Why you see Gonzales in a debate with Biden and Palin, but not Nader in a debate with Obama and McCain escapes me.

    You call Nader a necessary voice - and one that gets people thinking - but go on to say you don't see him in the debates.
    Don't you want people to be thinking about life and death issues that are not being addressed by the representatives of either the democrats or the republicans?

    All the democrats have as their issue at this time is fear of the republicans. This is Orwellian.

    People are not so sure that there is any deep difference between the candidates. So they are deciding, once again, on who seems nice and a potential beer or latte drinking partner.

    We should be screaming at our party to adopt the positions and values so passionately articulated by Nader.

    Not just Nader (5.00 / 2) (#40)
    by DancingOpossum on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 10:18:04 AM EST
    McKinney, Barr, and Ron Paul should all be at the debates, as should the candidates of the Socialist and Constitution parties, who always run prez candidates that nobody gets to hear from. During the last elections, I was lucky enough to watch a special presidential debate that featured four third-party candidates: the Green, the Socialist, the Libertarian (a much better candidate last time than the jackass Barr), and the Constitution Party candidate. It was one of the most substantive and compelling debates of the campaign, and all four were intelligent, well-informed speakers committed to their respective parties' core principles. Also interesting: all four were strongly against the Iraq war; three of them supported universal health car