Late Night: Money for Nothing

Mark Knopfler and Eric Claption.

Saturday Night Live opens with a McCain skit. The character playing McCain is very unconvincing. He looks nothing like him, way too young, and doesn't sound like him either. (Added: the Alaska segment was very funny.)

This is an open thread.

< Miami Herald Poll: McCain Slightly Ahead | The Wall Street Bailout: Obama Needs To Lead >
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    Hi Jeralyn (5.00 / 2) (#1)
    by Pat Johnson on Sat Sep 20, 2008 at 11:41:42 PM EST
    Thanks for the open thread.  May I ask a question of you?

    Why are you so intent lately to block longtime bloggers and fans from this site?   I have always admired Talk Left for being rather fair and balanced in allowing its posters to comment without fear of banning.  But since Barack Obama became the nominee, all I an able to read all comments that are only positive in his favor with no criticism or questioning of him being allowed.

    I recognize that this is your blog, and I also recognize that you must ban those who choose to use vulgarity and slander as talking points.   But shutting down commentators who have been your mainstay over the years is rather puzzling.

    Perhaps I have missed something but as someone who has come often to read your analysis of topical issues I honestly do not understand.

    Thank you for taking the time to read this and also finding the time to provide insight.  

    All points of view are welcome (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by Jeralyn on Sat Sep 20, 2008 at 11:51:17 PM EST
    here and you will find them in every thread. There's a limit on those that express opposition to the Democratic ticket and support of the Republican ticket.

    TalkLeft is not a neutral site and never has been. It's been clearly stated in our mission statement which has not changed since 2002.

    The commenters who are banned are those who chatter (see the comment rules), blog-clog, attempt to hijack or dominate the discussion.

    You registered to comment in Feb. which is not a long time in the 6 year history of TalkLeft.

    My goal is to expose the injustices of the current Administration and get the Democrats back in the White House. You are welcome to express your different opinion, up to four times a day. I think that's more than reasonable. I will not allow those with opposing views to dominate or take over the site. And I do insist on civility -- no name-calling, personal attacks, etc.

    Thanks for reading and I hope I've answered your question.

    Thanks (none / 0) (#13)
    by Amiss on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 12:21:01 AM EST
    for "Money for Nothing" tonite, it is quite appro po. :)

    Jeralyn, just wanted to say... (none / 0) (#38)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 02:44:56 AM EST
    Over the past several months, I've learned so much from your example of staying level, and not taking things personally when the debate gets heated. I know, I still have a way to go though.

    It's been particularly challenging in the GE homestretch. Thanks for being here.


    So let's talk about "the map" (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by andgarden on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 12:05:07 AM EST
    Let's consider the national popular vote, national polls, and wasted votes. A wasted vote is any vote that you get in a state you don't win. Both McCain and Obama are guaranteed to have many wasted votes this year.

    When the number of wasted votes one candidate gets goes above a certain percentage in certain states, that candidate can fall into the trap of losing "the map" while winning the popular vote. This was Al Gore's nightmare in 2000, and had things gone a little differently in Ohio, would have been John Kerry's in 2004. The fact, for example, that Al Gore got almost 60% of the vote in New York, instead of just 55%, did not help him one bit in Ohio, Florida, new Hampshire, or Tennessee. So too for Massachusetts and John Kerry.

    So let's consider a Rasmussen South Carolina poll from yesterday giving McCain a real but narrower-than-expected lead. I suspect the poll is wrong, but even if it's right, it is irrelevant. The extra 6% or so of votes that Obama would need to win South Carolina are just not available to him.  He knows this, which is why he is not bothering to compete there. (And why at long last he has finally decided to give up on money pit Georgia).

    What worries me is that Obama will get huge numbers of votes across the south, mostly from energized African Americans, win the national popular vote, and still fall a few points short in Colorado, Nevada, Virginia, Ohio, and Florida. Perhaps even Pennsylvania if things don't go right.

    I should say (none / 0) (#7)
    by andgarden on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 12:10:20 AM EST
    "would have been George Bush's in 2004."

    Don't forget New Hampshire. (none / 0) (#11)
    by coigue on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 12:19:53 AM EST
    If Gore had won there, we would have avoided the Bush years altogether.

    I have a theory about places like GA,but I am glad to hear that he has pulled out for the last few weeks. It's time to send blood to the areas that will win us the elction.

    My theory is twofold.

    1) perhaps some of the GA market reaches the FLA panhandle.

    and 2) There are some really energized Obama supporters in GA, and Obama does not want to leave them hanging.

    Given all his money, I agree with spreading it around in the early months of the race, but I also agree that it's time to focus now.


    It never made any sense (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by andgarden on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 12:22:56 AM EST
    to spend money outside of the florida overlap markets in Georgia. And my understand is that Obama was on in Atlanta.

    The cash advantage is essentially gone now, because even though Obama has had record months, he was supposed to be raising $80-100M/month, not $65M.

    And I don't care if there are really energized supporters in Georgia. There was no justification for the expenditures. None.


    yeah you're right (none / 0) (#15)
    by coigue on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 12:26:54 AM EST
    I am just trying to give him the benefit of the doubt.

    Wait, I like your idea about northern florida (none / 0) (#30)
    by befuddledvoter on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 01:55:13 AM EST
    It is a large swath of Florida that most seem to forget.  People there are real southerners, not what we think of as Floridians at all.  Having energized Obama supporters on the border with Fl. can only help Obama.  Most in northern florida often travel to GA to dine and shop etc.  They have the southern drawl, just like the Georgia residents.  Culturally, they are the same group for the most part. Because of this, I don't see investing in Ga as a waste at all.  The prize is FL.      

    If those people are just like Georgians (none / 0) (#34)
    by BrassTacks on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 02:26:58 AM EST
    Why would we think that they would vote for Obama?

    They are registered Dems (none / 0) (#47)
    by befuddledvoter on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 09:58:00 AM EST
    and the economy problems hit them hard at least a year ago.  

    Obama just opened an office (none / 0) (#41)
    by lilburro on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 05:45:51 AM EST
    in my county in North Carolina...and looking at the SUSA poll, 09/06/08 - 09/08/08, Obama is down 20 pts (58 McCain, 38 Obama).  

    I don't know what the goal is.  Is it possible they think they can do effective grassroots fundraising this way?  


    Raise money in NC (none / 0) (#43)
    by Fabian on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 08:04:42 AM EST
    spend it in Ohio?

    I suppose I should be grateful that there is some benefit to being bombarded with advertising and mass mailings.

    We'd prefer to have jobs.  At the rate things are going, that will be a nation wide refrain soon.


    PPP (based in NC) has a new poll with it tied up (none / 0) (#45)
    by steviez314 on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 08:08:25 AM EST
    And if RAS has SC M+6, that really does imply something closer to even in NC and Obama ahead in VA.

    So I'm not so sure it's wise to give up on NC just yet.


    i don't waste valuable time (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by cpinva on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 12:16:41 AM EST
    watching SNL anymore, it just isn't very good, and hasn't been for a very long time.

    i'd have to agree with your basic premise andgarden. i would take it a step further: the obama campaign shouldn't waste any scarce, allocable resources in any of the states of the confederacy. he'll likely get 99% of the AA vote, and still lose every one of them.

    he'd be better off concentrating those resources in states like OH, FL, MI, CO, CA and PA. perhaps he could ask the clintons to go to FL & MI, and explain why they should vote for him, in spite of his having thrown them under the bus during the primaries.

    The Clintons are already doing that. (none / 0) (#12)
    by coigue on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 12:20:40 AM EST
    The Clintons =/= Obama. n/t (none / 0) (#44)
    by Fabian on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 08:06:01 AM EST
    Jeralyn, thanks for diverting me to (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by oculus on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 12:57:11 AM EST
    YouTube, where I enjoyed reacquainting myself with the many versions of Layla and listening again to Wonderful Tonight.  

    Folks who like "Layla"... (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by EL seattle on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 02:14:30 AM EST
    ... might enjoy the 2003 movie Tom Dowd & the Language of Music on DVD.  It's a documentary about the amazing/legendary audio engineer Tom Dowd and contains interviews and anecdotes from Eric Clapton, Ray Charles, Aretha Franklin, Gregg Allman, members of Lynyrd Skynyrd, and many others.  It's totally fascingating and remarkable, I think.  If you're a fan of any of those musicians, check it out sometime.  The Derek & the Dominos stories about Clapton, Duane Allman, and "Layla" are very interesting.

    Plus, the movie has an interesting story about Dowd's work on the Manhattan Project in the 1940s when he was fresh out of high school.


    Also, an interesting video (none / 0) (#49)
    by oculus on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 11:03:29 AM EST
    on YouTube of Clapton and JJ Cale.  

    I love Layla (none / 0) (#27)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 01:39:28 AM EST
    and a song about mabel and her table, too late at night now for me to remember the name...and of course, bell bottom blues. Which alwasys leads me back to Stevie Winwwood and Traffic.

    "Badge" is the song you're thinking of (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by cymro on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 03:26:30 AM EST
    Yeah. Michigan did NOT (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by oculus on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 01:10:58 AM EST
    lose this week.

    The Maize are Blue (none / 0) (#29)
    by CoralGables on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 01:54:06 AM EST
    I missed their score today so you sent me scurrying to the schedule. You're right, they didn't lose..lolol

    Dang! I wanted to check SNL out tonight (none / 0) (#3)
    by nycstray on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 12:00:10 AM EST
    guess I was havin' too much fun in the kitchen.

    Working on a new soup recipe. Roasted squash and corn soup. Was cruising the net for ideas on what to do with my delicato squash and came across a recipe where you take the seeds and other inner squash "stuff" and use it for stock. Oh MY! So I used the "stuff" to make stock (along with water and white wine) while I roasted the corn and squash. Who knew?! Very nice stock!!! I'm adding a few other foods (fresh picked apples and carrots etc) along with the roasted veggies and as soon as they cook down a bit, I may just have a kick butt soup!

    Mom called today and wanted to know what to get me for my upcoming BDay. I wasn't sure, so I told her I would let her know after thinking a bit. Well. I went to my local cooking store as they were having a sidewalk sale (1 owner and an employee are with the same CSA that I'm with). Welp, I have to confess . . . I was distracted by a shiny object! My mom's present to me is the All Clad simple soup set. My soup is simmering in it now and mom was happy when I called her and let her know what my present was {grin!} Ahhhhh! Shiny objects rock!

    sounds great (none / 0) (#5)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 12:05:02 AM EST
    I have a big organic chicken I'll be making soup with tomorrow.

    I need some chicken soup (none / 0) (#8)
    by coigue on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 12:15:09 AM EST
    I am catching a cold.

    My mother used to make a chicken (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 12:59:22 AM EST
    soup, using only chicken and root vegetables: onion/carrots/potatoes/turnip/parsnip (I now add celery). She simmered it all in water (no pre-frying of any ingredients); used only salt and pepper for seasoning. It was the most amazingly flavorful thing. She left the skin on the chicken, you need that schmaltz for flavor.

    I can replicate it pretty well, although I have cheated and added veg boullion (sp). The vegs cook at different rates, but if you cut the stuff different sizes it can all go in at the same time, after the chicken has simmered for an hour or so. The vegs take another 20-30 mins over low heat.


    I'll be roasting one tomorrow (none / 0) (#10)
    by nycstray on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 12:18:37 AM EST
    and I'll use some of the breast meat in chard enchiladas in the next day or two :)

    Will you share your recipe? I have a few from the farm in my freezer and would love to do a soup with one :) Right now I'm in preserve what I can headspace, but I'm also on a soup mission! Would love to have some chicken soup direction :)


    my chicken soup (none / 0) (#16)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 12:31:06 AM EST
    1 3 to 4 pound organic chicken
    1 32 oz package of Pacific organic chicken broth
    8 cups water
    boil, remove scum

    lower to simmer, add
    1 really big nion cut up
    3-4 stalks celery whole
    salt, pepper, 3-4 garlic cloves, 2 bay leaves, 1 tsp. turmeric

    cook one hour


    1 package organic baby carrots, cut each in half
    4 stalks celery cut up
    mushrooms or whatever other veggies you want
    handful of fresh parsley
    handful of fresh cilantro

    cook another hour
    remove chicken from bones (it will fall off)and throw away bones

    you're done, unless you want matzoh balls. Then, take 3 cups of the broth and put in another pot. Make the matzoh balls from a Manishevitz package, cooking them in the broth instead of water. Add back to the soup.

    It lasts almost a week.


    try adding sauteed leeks and a bit of lemon (none / 0) (#18)
    by coigue on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 12:49:58 AM EST
    if you want a change.

    It's heavenly.


    Thank You! (none / 0) (#22)
    by nycstray on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 01:01:03 AM EST
    Sounds good!

    Now I'm all excited for chicken soup! Thank you for the recipe! It looks like just what I'm looking for :) I have a ton of carrots and other "keeper" veggies that look like they would go well in this mix.  And a case of Pacific chicken stock (aside from the fact these chickens just produce massive amounts of juice).  ;) {happy dance}


    Do you know about epicurious.com? (none / 0) (#17)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 12:33:09 AM EST
    It's recipe heaven for adventurous foodies.

    LINK: epicurious.com.

    Just go to the "find a recipe" box and type in whatever you've got in the fridge (i.e. beets + potatoes) and it'll give you a list of recipes.

    of course you can just type in "chicken soup" and it'll give you recipes for that.

    It's an infinite resource, with lots of pictures too. Enjoy!


    LOVE epicurious. (none / 0) (#19)
    by coigue on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 12:50:13 AM EST
    Are organic chickens always rather large? (none / 0) (#23)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 01:05:12 AM EST
    The ones I see locally are the size of small turkeys (or a big baby). I'd say 10-11 1bs and they cost about $40. Is that typical elsewhere nowadays?

    Never mind my question , I just saw J's recipe (none / 0) (#25)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 01:11:19 AM EST
    and her organic chicken is 3-4 lbs. I guess our HUGE local ones are mutants.

    Depends on age (none / 0) (#26)
    by nycstray on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 01:27:17 AM EST
    Our CSA just started doing chickens this year. The first batch was large. They adjusted when they "dispatched" them and now they are on the larger side of 3+lbs and topping out at 5lbs.

    I'm going to a chicken class in a couple of weeks. We are going to be comparing Factory chickens, Mass organic, local live kill and farm raised organic (from the farm I get mine from). Should be interesting seeing them side by side with feed discussion etc. We'll also learn methods of butchering and cooking :)


    The chicken class sounds fascinating... (none / 0) (#36)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 02:32:56 AM EST
    Never thought I'd say that. It'll give you so much valuable information that's pretty inaccessible to the public at large.

    I grew up with the local live kill variety and, flavor-wise, the factory chickens are barely recognizable as the same species.

    I, for one, would LOVE to hear about what you learn, and hope you'll keep us posted in these kind of chatty weekend threads.

    Pardon my ignorance, what does CSA stand for?


    Age is right. (none / 0) (#46)
    by Fabian on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 08:16:29 AM EST
    We can only get pastured chicken for about 5-6 months out of the year here.  "pastured" - chickens that are let out in literal pastures with grass and weeds and bugs, where they can eat whatever they can catch.  It's much different than being let out in fenced runs.  There's a higher rate of predation and it's more resource intensive, so it's not a common practice.  Plus it's seasonal - that cuts into year round production.  There's a huge difference in flavor than the equivalent of "corn-fed" poultry.  Worth it to have chicken that tastes like chicken instead of the poultry equivalent of tofu.

    Pastured poultry tend to be leaner, especially younger birds.


    Dear Jeralyn: (none / 0) (#4)
    by Pat Johnson on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 12:04:41 AM EST
    I really appreciate your taking the time to answer my question.  It is not often a site monitor would do that.  I do not post a comment often but I admit to being more of a "lurker".  

    From my viewpoint, not enough close and careful examination has been done with regard to Sen. Obama's past which includes his qualifications or experience so you will understand why I am still very reluctant to commit.   I prefer to digest as much information as I can and I think you would agree that the MSM has fallen down in its duty to provide us with some semblance of balance.  I usually look to other areas and other opinions to assist me in finally coming to a reasonable conclusion.

    But again, I respect your right as the site owner to set out the boundaries of discussion.  Thank you for clarifying your position.  

    Does anyone here (none / 0) (#28)
    by NYShooter on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 01:52:36 AM EST
    worry about an October surprise; you know, Bush's final "finger" to all of us?

    Any guesses on what form it would take?

    I speculate bin Laden will (none / 0) (#31)
    by oculus on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 01:56:38 AM EST
    be taken alive and John McCain will be there for the capture.  See Columbia.  

    if so, (none / 0) (#51)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 11:53:43 AM EST
    he's been in captivity in a secret prison for years and they are just waiting for the election to roll it out.

    Bush's last gasp at having a positive legacy. I doubt he'd do it for McCain, just for himself.


    Right Now... (none / 0) (#32)
    by CoralGables on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 02:02:17 AM EST
    Even George W has a backwards bush clock on his desk as he looks forward to the time he can get out of town.

    Since he has already accomplished the biggest debt by a president ever, all he has left to do is go after a larger debt than all other presidents combined. Won't be easy but I have confidence in him, and a socialized Wall Street may be just the ticket to ignominious success.


    Only 120 Days Left (none / 0) (#37)
    by shoephone on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 02:40:30 AM EST
    to the Bush Disaster.

    I think that champagne suppliers all over the U.S. are going to make one heck of a killing come January.


    do they sell (none / 0) (#52)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 11:54:18 AM EST
    champagne futures?

    October Surprise (none / 0) (#35)
    by Amiss on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 02:30:02 AM EST
    I heard on one of the news shows that Rev. Wright has a book coming out in October. <shudder>

    Maybe (none / 0) (#40)
    by NYShooter on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 03:58:21 AM EST
    his book and the Palin Investigation report will duel it out.

    Nope (none / 0) (#50)
    by daring grace on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 11:06:03 AM EST
    No October book for the Rev. Wright.

    Thanks (none / 0) (#53)
    by Amiss on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 02:22:10 PM EST
    I am glad at least we can now count that "surprise" out.

    Tzipi Livni (none / 0) (#42)
    by Manuel on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 06:08:39 AM EST
    Will she become the new prime minister of Israel?  It's an interesting story.  She certainly would be a fresh face for Israel in the World.

    BTW Not that it will happen but wouldn't a multi party parliamentary democracy in the US be more interesting and representative than our current two party system?

    Maher's (none / 0) (#48)
    by glanton on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 10:34:38 AM EST
    Real Time this past Friday was very entertaining and thought provoking.

    I thought Naomi Klein cleaned Andrew Sullivan's clock on economic questions.  Sullivan's effort to disagree with Klein on the meaning of the Wall Street spiral was just not credible.  The fact is that The Shock Doctrine IS in play on the economic front.  That a McCain Administration Will use the problems as an excuse to eliminate programs, and make an assault on Social Security that will make W. look like's its best friend.

    But then Sullivan got it right in joining Klein and Maher on the crux of the matter, which is that McCain's election will spell a nightmare for National Security and take the Culture Wars to unprecedented levels.

    Best line of the night was when Maher said McCain will probably win because the American people are "too f&#king dumb."  I've seen a lot of chatterers on here lately talking about how it is not right to question the intellect of PUMAS and other Americans supporting McCain.

    But what gives credence to the argument that we are a dumb electorate is, not only does McCain stand an excellent chance of winning.  But that more telling still, McCain consistently gets higher marks on the question who is fit to be Commander in Chief.  How stupid is the "McCain is Strong on NAtional Secutiry" meme?  Answer: Very stupid.

    And people who vote McCain and then lose loved ones in the next guranteeed round of ill-begotten wars, will have nobody to cry to, or blame, but themselves.

    The tragedy will be that those who were not dumb, and who saw the danger in advance, will also lose loved ones for silly reasons, and they will have no recourse for justice in the matter.  It will have literally been their neighbors who did the killing.