Saturday Evening Open Thread: Dali's View Of Women

We're off to a dinner event at the Salvador Dali Museum in St. Petersberg, FL tonight. The featured exhibit is Dali's View of Women.

More than 100 of Dalí’s works from the permanent collection are on display until September 21. A range of diverse approaches are found in Dalí’s view of women, most evident in his many depictions of his wife, Gala. He painted her as the Sphinx, Gradiva and Leda, infusing in her his interest in the feminine myths of mothers, daughters, muses and predators. ..."

This is an open thread, all topics welcome. Have a great evening.

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    If Jeralyn didn't like Palin before, (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by steviez314 on Sat Sep 13, 2008 at 05:44:41 PM EST
    this NY Times article isn't going to make her feel any better.  Or me.

    I read this and pictured Cheney in a dress.

    From the article: (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by Don in Seattle on Sat Sep 13, 2008 at 06:02:29 PM EST
    Ms. Palin ordered city employees not to talk to the press. And she used city money to buy a white Suburban for the mayor's use -- employees sarcastically called it the mayor-mobile.

    Can anyone name another town of less than 10,000 people that provides its mayor an SUV?

    How does this fit into her "I put the plane on eBay" story?


    Given she sold the plane at a loss (none / 0) (#26)
    by Molly Bloom on Sat Sep 13, 2008 at 06:54:09 PM EST
    I'd say it fits just fine.

    I thought she is George W. Bush's Doppelganger (none / 0) (#24)
    by Molly Bloom on Sat Sep 13, 2008 at 06:50:50 PM EST
    I just read the article. It seems to be well researched, avoids all of the petty personal issues and paints her not as a reformer, but an ambitious Machiavelli. Or a right wing Willie Stark.

    WOW!! (none / 0) (#29)
    by befuddledvoter on Sat Sep 13, 2008 at 07:17:36 PM EST
    That is some article!! She is worse than I imagined, on a personal level.  I thought she was just a hard right winger.  Manipulative, vindictive, come to mind, among other things.

    Palin-tology (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by Swiggs on Sat Sep 13, 2008 at 07:03:56 PM EST
    I've been a frequent "lurker" on this site, but I'm inspired to register and post because the bloggers here are so thoughtful, interersting, impressive.  And the tone of the "conversations" is great too.  Posters are opinionated & smart, but respectful.

    I tend to come down on the side of ignoring Sarah Palin and keeping the focus on McSame / McCain = Bush part III.

    I agree that it diminishes Obama if he is seen to be focusing on the VP vs. Presidential candidate.  But probably more dangerous is that to many people - myself included - Sarah Palin is an admirable woman, an inspiring person.  She has a great and compelling life story.  As an example - she is one year older than me.  I work and  have one child - and my life overwhelms me sometimes.  I'm impressed and depressed by how much she has accomplished vs. me.  I completely disagree with her beliefs / policies / worldview (as I understand it) - but when I hear her being attacked as stupid / naive / not ready for prime time / unprepared / inexperienced / a bad mother / a bad role model - it honestly makes me want to defend her.  She should be acknowledged as an admirable person - but one who holds dangerous and disproven beliefs.

    A good example of this phenomenon:  the big negative dig coming out of the Charlie Gibson interview was that she didn't know what the Bush Doctrine is.  You know what?  So what.  I don't know what the Bush Doctrine is. (and ps - that ridiculous blowhard Charles Krauthammer is now arguing that GIBSON doesn't know what the Bush Doctrine is).  I don't care.  I DO care that SP thinks we should be engaging in pre-emptive warfare, especially when coupled with her comments vis-a-vis Russia and Georgia.  But that's not what people were talking about.  If we don't focus on the ISSUES we lose the arguement.

    One final note:  I wish everyone in Hollywood would shut up about the election.  Do we really need to hear about what Matt Damon and Roger Ebert think about Sarah Palin?  This kind of silliness just makes the Right's case for them.

    Sorry for the long first post.  I'll try to keep it pithier from here on out.

    Welcome. (5.00 / 2) (#34)
    by tree on Sat Sep 13, 2008 at 08:50:35 PM EST
    My two cents worth is that the quality of the dialogue has gone down lately and the level of uncivility has gone up since many long time posters have left, but its still got a better discussion here than many blogs. Speaking for myself only, of course.

    But I'm happy to see a new commenter here, especially one who respects the dialogue. Have at it and have fun.


    Thanx! (none / 0) (#35)
    by Swiggs on Sat Sep 13, 2008 at 09:26:28 PM EST
    Thanx for the welcome!  I'm sure you're right about the downward trend in tone on this site.  I'm comparing this blog to places like Slate, Talkingpoints and Kos, none of which I even visit any more because I can't bear the state to which "discourse" has sunk.

    Not Knowing The Bush Doctrine (none / 0) (#42)
    by daring grace on Sun Sep 14, 2008 at 10:37:50 AM EST
    But, Swiggs, you don't need to know what it is since you're not running for VP.

    But as a candidate for that office--and a Republican one at that-- Governor Palin stumbling on that is kind of amazing.  It's strange she doesn't seem better versed in a central plank of the current administration's foreign policy, especially as it related to the invasion of Iraq, and especially since it was heavily discussed just 6 years ago when it was first introduced, and since.

    This doesn't seem like a small blind spot to me, especially since it seems McCain subscribes to the same policy, and since I'm sure Obama and Biden probably do know what the Bush Doctrine is.


    Orwell on Dali (1.00 / 1) (#32)
    by Don in Seattle on Sat Sep 13, 2008 at 08:26:45 PM EST
    Benefit of Clergy: Some Notes on Salvador Dali

    Warning: This essay contains some strong stuff. For people who throw around the word 'misogyny' lightly, it may be useful to have some knowledge of the real and very twisted thing.

    I am rushing to finish reading Pattie Boyd's (none / 0) (#1)
    by oculus on Sat Sep 13, 2008 at 04:47:48 PM EST
    Wonderful Tonight (my first time ever participating in a book club is tomorrow afternoon).   Boyd tells about a phone call to Amanda Lear, who she says is "Salavador Dali's muse."  Year is about 1987--post Clapton marriage.  I'm thinking:  what about Gala, whose castle we visited in Girona, Spain.  According to the guide book, Dali bought the castle for Gala but he could only visit on her invitation.  She apparently would call down to the village for male company, prefably young.  

    What do you think of the book? (none / 0) (#22)
    by Molly Bloom on Sat Sep 13, 2008 at 06:46:59 PM EST
    I'm enjoying it. She has a co-author (none / 0) (#39)
    by oculus on Sun Sep 14, 2008 at 12:56:07 AM EST
    who specializes in writing about The Royals.  Boyd grew up in Kenya.  Moral of the story:  best not to marry rock stars.  

    I'm curious what you all think of (none / 0) (#2)
    by NJDem on Sat Sep 13, 2008 at 05:02:11 PM EST
    this new web as:  Stem Cell

    I find the timing interesting...

    Strong. (none / 0) (#3)
    by oculus on Sat Sep 13, 2008 at 05:05:18 PM EST
    Mine too (none / 0) (#5)
    by NJDem on Sat Sep 13, 2008 at 05:10:04 PM EST
    things like this, and the fact that he loves "Curb Your Enthusiasm" (special breed of ppl, Curb fans) makes me not so scared of him (NOT that I would vote for him!).

    And obviously I meant "web aD" :)


    Effective (none / 0) (#6)
    by nycstray on Sat Sep 13, 2008 at 05:17:58 PM EST
    People deserve what they'll get, (none / 0) (#9)
    by 1jpb on Sat Sep 13, 2008 at 05:28:37 PM EST
    if they hear this ad, and then they believe that McCain is the one who will work to "improve your health."

    Yes (none / 0) (#28)
    by glanton on Sat Sep 13, 2008 at 07:04:41 PM EST
    That is true across the Board.  We'll get what we deserve this time around.  

    If we vote in McCain, for example, we'll deserve it when thousands more of our children die overseas in a conflict that nobody will care about, or even be able to explain, a few years after those children are dead.


    Does James Dobson know about this? (none / 0) (#11)
    by Don in Seattle on Sat Sep 13, 2008 at 05:31:55 PM EST
    Has anybody told Rush Limbaugh?

    Does Governor Palin have a prior position on stem cell research? Well, may we ask her what it was?

    Seriously, if this represents McCain returning to loyal opposition against The Agents of Intolerance, I'm all for it. And as someone who has Parkinson's, I have a dog in this fight.

    McCain must believe that Palin has sewn up the holes in his base, thus freeing him to court moderate voters. I hate to say it, but that's pretty smart politics.


    I can't believe that so many of you (none / 0) (#12)
    by 1jpb on Sat Sep 13, 2008 at 05:36:52 PM EST
    don't have a clue about how many types of stems cells exist.

    Somewhere there's a McCain ad person thinking; "hook, line, and sinker."



    Where do you get that (none / 0) (#14)
    by nycstray on Sat Sep 13, 2008 at 05:42:02 PM EST
    "so many of you don't have a clue"?

    She stated in her interview pretty clearly (none / 0) (#13)
    by nycstray on Sat Sep 13, 2008 at 05:40:17 PM EST
    what her personal views were and they weren't necessarily the same as McCain's. She's against embryonic stem cell personally and also talked about the advances of other stem cell research.

    She's interesting when it comes to her personal views vs reality.


    Jeralyn- I am posting this everywhere i can (none / 0) (#4)
    by dailygrind on Sat Sep 13, 2008 at 05:06:48 PM EST
    this is the best ad I've seen this cycle. It needs to be cut down, but it's actually very viscerally what Obaam is seeking to say in his campaign branding of McCain:


    If y ou know anyone who can push for this-- they should.

    4th icon from the left (none / 0) (#25)
    by Molly Bloom on Sat Sep 13, 2008 at 06:52:42 PM EST
    Just past the B, I, U

    Looks like a link in a chain.

    Highlight the word of phrase you want to use as the link, click the icon and paste the URL. Click Ok.


    Did ABC do Palin a favor by (none / 0) (#7)
    by 1jpb on Sat Sep 13, 2008 at 05:23:36 PM EST
    cutting out some of her Russia comments?  The following is from the full transcript, but it wasn't aired:

    "...counting on our allies to help us do that in this mission of keeping our eye on Russia and Putin and some of his desire to control and to control much more than smaller democratic countries.

    His mission, if it is to control energy supplies, also, coming from and through Russia, that's a dangerous position for our world to be in, if we were to allow that to happen."

    Is energy McCain's real concern?  Is he trying to keep Russia from controlling Russian energy supplies?  

    If this is true, did Palin accidentally share some behind the scenes conversations?  If this is true, isn't it futile for us to try and control Russia's energy?  If this is true, shouldn't we double our efforts to minimize our dependence on fossil fuels?

    Michigan smushed by (none / 0) (#8)
    by oculus on Sat Sep 13, 2008 at 05:25:50 PM EST
    Notre Dame.  Bad news.

    A day of extras! (none / 0) (#10)
    by nycstray on Sat Sep 13, 2008 at 05:30:27 PM EST
    Extra roma tomatoes, seckel pears, gala and honeycrisp apples, bok choy, dill, leeks and fresh (and I mean FRESH!) chickens. Good thing I brought my big cart today for the chicken. Had plenty of room to stock up on extras. I couldn't believe someone didn't show for their chicken share, but was happy to buy an extra bird :)

    The tomatoes are absolutely perfect and I have a big ol' bucketful. Picked yesterday, so canning tonight. Think I'll make some apple/brandy pie type filling. Not sure what to do with the pears yet . . . . Leeks will go into a soup with potatoes, turnip, celery root, and wine steamed clams. And I have kale for another soup with canellini beans, portobello mushrooms and sunday bacon. Good thing it's cool enough to cook tonight!

    Ooh, sounds delicious! (none / 0) (#16)
    by tree on Sat Sep 13, 2008 at 05:44:58 PM EST
    I'll be right over!

     BTW, I've got a friend who's trying to rescue some stray kitties in her neighborhood, including a very young mama and her brand new kittens. Can you contact me by email so I can pick your brain on  rescue strategies? Check my info page for my email address. Thanks. The baby kittens are so adorable, they deserve a better life than that on the street.


    Sure. Where is your friend located? (none / 0) (#18)
    by nycstray on Sat Sep 13, 2008 at 05:59:53 PM EST
    I'll email after I get some kitchen work done. Need to get things started :)
    Her location would be helpful so I can check resources :)

    Thanks. (none / 0) (#21)
    by tree on Sat Sep 13, 2008 at 06:05:03 PM EST
    She's in L.A. like I am. Save me some soup, please. :-)

    where do you live and what kind of wine do you (none / 0) (#17)
    by mogal on Sat Sep 13, 2008 at 05:46:55 PM EST

    Brooklyn and dry, light and white :) (none / 0) (#19)
    by nycstray on Sat Sep 13, 2008 at 06:01:32 PM EST
    nycstray (none / 0) (#36)
    by caseyOR on Sat Sep 13, 2008 at 09:38:37 PM EST
    the kale and canellini bean soup sounds wonderful. Want to share the recipe?

    I just harvested mucho roma tomatoes from my garden. Most will be frozen, to be brought out over the winter. Some will be dried. And some will just be eaten.


    McCain immigration Attack ad (none / 0) (#23)
    by WS on Sat Sep 13, 2008 at 06:47:36 PM EST
    Immigration attack ad

    This is actually an interesting ad in that it doesn't attack Obama for supporting the immigration bill but blames him and the Democratic leadership for the immigration bill's failure.  If I remember correctly, the Republicans filibustered the bill.  Back in January, McCain said he would vote no on his own immigration bill to please conservative primary audiences.

    What does everyone think of the ad?  

    Well (none / 0) (#37)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Sep 13, 2008 at 09:39:55 PM EST
    if I could remember my 4 years of spanish in high school and college I could tell you.

    I saw the Dali exhibit... (none / 0) (#30)
    by lucky leftie on Sat Sep 13, 2008 at 08:00:57 PM EST
    ...in March, when I was on vacation.  I don't know a lot about Dali but I really enjoyed it.  Hope you checked out the gift shop.  Melting clocks on everything!  

    Dali's women (none / 0) (#31)
    by Peter G on Sat Sep 13, 2008 at 08:03:21 PM EST
    Jeralyn:  Do they have the great portrait Dali did of his sister, "Person at the Window"?  One of my favorites.

    Was Palin charging rape victims (none / 0) (#33)
    by Alien Abductee on Sat Sep 13, 2008 at 08:34:09 PM EST
    for their rape kits not out of miserliness but because those rape kits included emergency contraception (Plan B)? The implantation it prevents could be of a fertilized egg and so the use of it is opposed as abortion by pro-life extremists.

    The legislation Knowles signed in 2000 specified that victims couldn't be charged for testing or for emergency contraception. Palin was the only mayor in Alaska to impose this charge.

    See here and here for more.

    Oh, nooooo, not again. (n/t) (1.00 / 1) (#38)
    by Cream City on Sun Sep 14, 2008 at 12:05:55 AM EST
    If a government official goes around (none / 0) (#40)
    by Alien Abductee on Sun Sep 14, 2008 at 02:06:56 AM EST
    making public policy on the basis of their bizarre personal religious beliefs, I d*mn well want to know about it. I want to know exactly what's been done or not done, and why, particularly before that person gets even greater power to affect policy in an even broader sphere. Are you saying you don't want to know the facts of the matter? Or that you don't care.

    What you have there is (1.00 / 1) (#41)
    by tree on Sun Sep 14, 2008 at 03:51:28 AM EST
    baseless speculation, not knowledge. I read your first link to salon which is mostly uniformed speculation. Your next link is to americablog and I will not go there. I am 100% sure that, based on Aravois' history his link is even more bat-sh*t crazy speculation, because frankly that's all he does lately and he's a blatant misogynist.

    And BTW, "rape kits" are forensic in nature. They are intended to collect evidence of a crime. Emergency contraception is NOT part of a rape kit, so the idea that charging a rape victim's insurance company for the cost of the "rape kit" is intended to prevent emergency contraception from being administered is totally without merit. They are two separate issues, and paying or not paying for one has nothing to do with the other. This is unsubstantiated and frankly stupid speculation. But its about what I would expect from americablog.


    It's part of the (none / 0) (#43)
    by Alien Abductee on Sun Sep 14, 2008 at 08:51:15 PM EST
    recommended protocols for victim treatment and for inclusion in the rape kit, but it's true that right-wing/fundamentalist politics has interfered with the implementation of that and it isn't as widely done as it should be.