Are You Experienced?

Who knew Jimi Hendrix would be posing the seemingly seminal question of the election? (According to some folks anyway.)

This is an Open Thread.

< The Perils Of The Experience Argument | Palin and Tokenism >
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    Yes, I'm very experienced in (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by JavaCityPal on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 03:34:13 PM EST
    a variety of careers and talents. Would I feel confident I could enter into a totally new career and succeed? Absolutely. I am a quick study, and I've learned how to bring my previous experience in and tweak it appropriately. The parallels from one job to another are generally enough to make transferance of skills easy.

    Well, I wouldn't let you (2.00 / 0) (#3)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 03:40:39 PM EST
    operate on my kid, trust you to write a prescription for my glasses or have confidence in your ability to make any other decision on a major life matter for me.

    Not all occupations are jobs are equal and leading the country is in a league of its own.


    Interesting judgment when you (5.00 / 0) (#4)
    by JavaCityPal on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 03:49:15 PM EST
    have no idea where my experiences in career and life are.

    That sounds like a (5.00 / 0) (#7)
    by Andy08 on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 03:54:43 PM EST
    gratuitous personal shot; maybe JaveCityPal is an excellent surgeon or an optometrist...Who knows?(at least I don't)...

    Who among us here (5.00 / 0) (#14)
    by Cream City on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:12:16 PM EST
    can perform surgery or even optometry!  

    So I'll the the first to say:

    I am not Spartacus.

    But if I want a legal opinion, I'll start here.  Of course, I also will expect it to be worth exactly what I pay for it here.:-)


    You would be surprised ... (none / 0) (#27)
    by Andy08 on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:58:28 PM EST
    Yes. Exactly. (none / 0) (#30)
    by Cream City on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:16:35 PM EST
    We all would be surprised, including our blog hosts.  I hope.  If it turns out that our IPs are telling more about us than we wish, that ought to be said.

    I think you should run for POTUS! :) (none / 0) (#26)
    by cmugirl on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:47:19 PM EST
    Referendum on Palin (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by ajain on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 03:59:25 PM EST
    I think this extensive conversation and discussion of Palin has been very unhelpful...the Bush/McCain storyline has run away. I think it was a brilliant political pick for McCain. He has shut off any coverage of Obama and his agenda. Plus I think if Dems are attempting (at least in part) to have a referendum on Palin, judging from her performance in Dayton, Ohio, they will lose. She seems like a great candidate who would hard to criticize had she had just one more yr of experience. I think the experience argument in Dems are making are stupid and partly sexist, but one more yr of experience and she wouldn't have been criticized with such vigor from the Democrats. Her Right-wing insanity should be pointed out but should not be the focus of this election.

    Its a mistake to focus attention on, and make an issue out of, Palin

    One more year? (5.00 / 3) (#16)
    by Cream City on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:15:11 PM EST
    I think she could have a couple of decades more, or even several more years in the Senate, and still get slammed for a lack of experience.  See Clinton, Hillary.

    So that only can lead the observer to wonder whassup with this.


    The difference between (none / 0) (#20)
    by jondee on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:39:17 PM EST
    HRC and her is the reason she's getting slammed.

    There isnt some hidden higher cause that both adhere to. Or people think there is, I'd like to hear exactly WHAT it is.


    No, Clinton did "tea parties" (5.00 / 2) (#29)
    by Cream City on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:14:13 PM EST
    when representing us abroad, according to Obama.  Forget that?  When representing us in 70-plus more countries then he ever visited, of course.  (She went to 82 countries for us.)

    I'm not slamming Obama gain on this; it was what it was.  But it also actually was one of several slams on Clinton's experience, and I won't have it disappeared, either.


    I'm getting (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by eleanora on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 03:59:45 PM EST
    really experienced at mixing margaritas. I wish I could just drink straight through until November.

    Ease the Pain Margaritas
    1 1/4 oz. Cuervo Gold OR 1800 tequila
    3/4 oz. Cointreau
    3/4 oz. Grand Marnier
    1 oz. sweetened lime juice (like Roses)
    3 oz. sweet & sour mix

    change that to fresh squeezed limes (5.00 / 2) (#13)
    by DandyTIger on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:04:05 PM EST
    you'll be a amazed at what a difference that makes.

    Did you see this column? (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by cmugirl on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:46:07 PM EST
    Apparently the Joe Biden and "working class roots in Scranton" is not exactly the whole truth. Not necessarily his fault (the darn media again), but no one has done anything to correct the image, either.

    The facts are there for anyone who wants to look at them. When Joe Biden Sr. died in 2002, his obituary in the News-Journal of Wilmington reported that when he married in 1941, "he was working as a sales representative for Amoco Oil Co. in Harrisburg."

    It went on, "Biden also was an executive in a Boston-based company that supplied waterproof sealant for U.S. merchant marine ships built during World War II. After the war, he co-owned an airport and crop-dusting service on Long Island." Upon moving his family to Delaware, the News-Journal said, Biden "worked in the state first as a sales manager for auto dealerships and later in real-estate condominium sales."

    Executive, co-owner and manager? Those titles identify the jobholder as solidly middle class, if not better. They fall in the category of white-collar occupations, not blue-collar.

    And Biden Sr. clearly knew the difference. In his book, "Promises to Keep," Biden writes that his father was "the most elegantly dressed, perfectly manicured, perfectly tailored car sales manager Wilmington had ever seen."

    Biden's Grandparents In Scranton (none / 0) (#33)
    by daring grace on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 08:01:05 PM EST
    In fact, I heard him talking about his Scranton grandfather over the weekend, and thought: How many Scranton grandkids are running for higher office this year?

    In fact, all these grandparents playing such pivotal roles in the Dem candidates' personal narratives...

    Biden grew up in Scranton till the age of ten.

    And still has friends from childhood there he stayed in touch with.

    "Until 1952, Biden lived with his parents and grandparents in a two-story Colonial on a tree-lined street in Green Ridge, an Irish-Catholic enclave and one of Scranton's nicest neighborhoods. Biden slept in an attic bedroom with sloped ceilings and a view of West Mountain, scrawling "Joe Biden was here" and "Kilroy was here" on the walls."


    Palin is a diabolically brilliant choice (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by VicfromOregon on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 11:07:34 PM EST
    This week will either make or break the wisdom of McCain's choice, but to sum it up - Pail is all things conservative.  And, while Obama chides Hillary for trying to be a modern day Annie Oakley, Palin is a woman who shoots a moose with a scope rifle and eats the meat.  Now, does she carve out the liver and gorge herself on it right there along the trail?  Probably not.  She appears to have landed into political jobs by first being concerned about her kids education. Read- she had to enter the system to get the schools to work.  She supports big oil but also champions the court appointed penalties of oil spillers like Exxon.

    We must remember that Obama's State Senate job was a part-time deal.  He was a property acquistion lawyer most of his time (which is where he ended up blurring the line with Rezko).  He also governed a fairly small condensed section of the city.  Much like a mayor position, but far fewer hours and less detail work.

    The republicans are all smiling.  That is worry enough.  Be afraid, be very afraid.

    Frank Luntz is conducting a focus group (none / 0) (#2)
    by JavaCityPal on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 03:39:42 PM EST
    for president on C-Span right now.

    VERY Interesting.

    let us know his conclusions please (none / 0) (#6)
    by bjorn on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 03:52:56 PM EST
    If you find a link for the program please port (none / 0) (#8)
    by Andy08 on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 03:55:34 PM EST
    for the program at C-Span please post. Thanks.

    Cheney and Wolfowitz (none / 0) (#5)
    by jondee on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 03:51:49 PM EST
    and David Addington are all preeminantly experienced. According to the quantity not quality school of unreason, these people should all rival Jefferson, Franklin and Madison (and not just in the minds of the Iran, Syria and Russia are next school)

    We should try not to assume that Americans are too dense to grasp what these people have actually DONE as opposed to what positions they've held.

    I'm so experienced that I scare myself (none / 0) (#9)
    by DandyTIger on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 03:57:17 PM EST
    LOL, OK, that's me being silly. I have no experience painting, but I got a canvas pad and some paints and I'm having the time of my life. Of course I'm not sure I'd hang anything I'm doing on the wall. Perhaps it's more at the level of on the fridge with a magnet right now. :-)

    Funny, this post kind of made me (none / 0) (#10)
    by bjorn on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 03:59:13 PM EST
    realize that good judgement is critical, maybe more critical than experience.  I don't think you can have good judgement without some experience, but I think emotional intelligence is probably the critical factor.  If you are high in emotional intelligence, with minimal experience your judgement may be enough to carry the day.  But if you have a lot of experience, and almost no emotional intelligence your judgement will probably suffer.  

    I am a social worker, so what the hell do I know anyway.  I admire all four candidates for daring to be a Pres. or VP candidate. But I want Obama/Biden for their combination of judgement and experience.

    As for Experience (none / 0) (#15)
    by kaleidescope on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:13:05 PM EST
    If you're talking about the kind Jimi meant, then Barack Obama probably has had at least some, which is much more than any other major party candidate or person elected president has ever had.  And in a sense, that kind of experience IS relevant to leading the free world.

    If you're talking about the kind of experience the people at dKos are moaning about -- executive, command, leadership experience, then Wesley Clark had that one nailed -- John McCain doesn't really have any more of that kind of experience than does Barack Obama.

    On the other hand, at least Obama has successfully staffed and lead a sustained nation-wide nineteen-month campaign. And the word "campaign" is relevant on a couple levels of meaning.  John McCain not so much.  And Sarah Palin not at all.

    That said, one of the dumbest things the Obama campaign ever did was to throw General Clark under the bus for speaking the real truth about John McCain's "experience".  A fighter pilot does not lead campaigns, but presidents sometimes must.

    Not really (5.00 / 3) (#24)
    by cmugirl on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:43:49 PM EST
    On the other hand, at least Obama has successfully staffed and lead a sustained nation-wide nineteen-month campaign.

    That would be David Axelrod.  Unless you want to make the argument that George Bush ran two successful campaigns and that should have shown us he was going to be a successful POTUS.


    Armando, you're too young to know this song. (none / 0) (#17)
    by jeffinalabama on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:29:26 PM EST
    I, on the other hand, with my vast 2-4 years of life, love your choice!

    d'oh! MORE years... (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by jeffinalabama on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:34:15 PM EST
    and i used to carry an onion on my belt...

    Great musical education for a (none / 0) (#22)
    by oculus on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:41:02 PM EST
    classical music elitist.  So why was Clapton called "God" when Hendrix did the guitar wailing so very well?

    Did you just say "Four More Years"? (none / 0) (#23)
    by oculus on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:42:38 PM EST
    A contest of ideas (none / 0) (#18)
    by Realleft on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:30:06 PM EST
    I suspect that this is what Obama really wants.  The pick of Palin can take the stupid sideshow focus out of the picture if the other Dems and liberal pundits would just shut up now.  Since they won't of course, it is time for Sen. Obama to seize the mike and keep the issues front and center for the next two months.

    Evolution or creationism?
    Societal control over individual choices or freedom of choice?
    Pollution or stewardship of the earth's environment?
    Government of the corporations or government of the people?
    Helping the rich or opening doors for the rest?
    Go it alone or international cooperation?
    Nuclear proliferation or reduction?

    Etc. etc. etc.

    Now is your time, Senator Obama, if you want to make this a contest of ideas.

    What happened to the Green Dems? (none / 0) (#28)
    by Joan in VA on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:03:11 PM EST
    Wasn't our convention billed as "green"? I saw photos today of trash bags containing American flags(the kind on sticks for waving) and water bottles among other stuff including paper. Water bottles are the bane of the Earth and should, at least, be recycled. Paper should be recycled. Why would American flags be tossed when they could easily be reused?

    I thought that when I saw Obama holding (none / 0) (#31)
    by oculus on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:22:29 PM EST
    a plastic water bottle as Biden was speaking during the event when Biden was introduced as VP.  

    Any information as to whether Markos (none / 0) (#32)
    by oculus on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 06:34:52 PM EST
    himself has opined on McCain's selection of Palin as his VP?  Yes, I could go look myself, but I'm afraid. Thanks.

    Since Democrats (none / 0) (#34)
    by lilburro on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 09:30:00 PM EST
    seem unable to let experience slip off the table, I am beginning to wonder if picking Palin is in part McCain's way of challenging the experience question all over again - my VP candidate may not be experienced, but their Pres candidate isn't experienced, and which is worse?

    I think there are a lot of tricks up their sleeves as far as this choice is concerned.  I think the media is viewing this in a bit of a stone age way:  "Look, woman.  Woman vote for woman.  Rarr!!"