Republican Convention Open Thread

Here's an open thread for comments related to the Republican National Convention.

It also gives me another excuse to remind commenters that this site supports the Democratic ticket and comments expressing support for McCain/Palin or opposition to Obama/Biden are limited to four per 24 hour period. Our comment rules are here.

Also, personal attacks (and unsubstantiated rumors of a personal nature) on any of the candidates or other commenters or the authors of this site are not allowed period.

< Hurricane Gustav | The Perils Of The Experience Argument >
  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft

  • Display: Sort:
    You can take Bush out of the photo (5.00 / 2) (#1)
    by Cream City on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 01:59:49 PM EST
    as it now is announced for certain that he won't be there.  He'll be in NOLA.  Sure, now he'll be in NOLA.  

    Locking the barn door.... (5.00 / 3) (#3)
    by jerry on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 02:03:59 PM EST
    Worst. President. Ever.

    Ever indeed (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by Andy08 on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 02:33:27 PM EST
    What a disgrace in our history....

    Yeah, life is good!!!!!! (none / 0) (#51)
    by progrocks on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 02:55:23 PM EST
    Bomb Iran and the 4th amendment!!!!

    After Photoshopping Palin in? (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by myiq2xu on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 02:35:29 PM EST
    Why undo all the hard work of creating a false image?

    I think McCain and Palin May Be in Nola Too (none / 0) (#4)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 02:04:02 PM EST
    And it's a symbolic photo.

    M&P will be in Mississippi (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by nycstray on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 02:09:35 PM EST
    Bush NOLA area unless things have changed.

    But the symbolism hasn't changed  ;)


    Using to suffering of others... (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 02:12:32 PM EST
    ...to pander for votes.  McCain seems to have a pattern of this.  

    At the height of the floods in Iowa, he was asked by the Gov. to postpone his visit as it would drain Emergency personel away from actually helping people.  McCain showed up anyway--a big "FU" to the people of Iowa.  While he was there, he didn't fill one sandbag, didn't help rescue one standed person or do anything to actually provide assistance.

    He is not President. I hope people see this presense in LA for what it is--shameless.


    You (5.00 / 0) (#35)
    by Wile ECoyote on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 02:30:28 PM EST
    mean Obama won't be pandering their either?

    Actually, he won't. (5.00 / 2) (#40)
    by indy in sc on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 02:36:22 PM EST
    From Politico:

    Your pooler asked him if McCain's visit now is appropriate.

    [Obama's] response: "A big storm like this raises bipartisan concerns and I think for John to want to find out what's going on is fine."

    "The thing that I always am concerned about in the middle of a storm is whether we're drawing resources away from folks on the ground because the Secret Service and various security requirements, sometimes it pulls police, fire and other departments away from concentrating on the job."

    I left this last part of Obama's response out. (none / 0) (#43)
    by indy in sc on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 02:37:58 PM EST
    "I'm assuming that where [McCain] went that wasn't an issue. Were going to try to stay clear of the area until things have settled down and then we'll probably try to figure out how we can be as helpful as possible."

    My understanding was that M&P were (5.00 / 0) (#45)
    by nycstray on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 02:43:51 PM EST
    invited to the Gov mansion there. If that's true, doesn't sound like they will be in the way or be pulling needed personnel away from the storm.

    Thanks indy! (none / 0) (#47)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 02:44:23 PM EST
    So, the answer to your question, Wily, is no.  And for the record, Sen. Obama was respectful of the wishes of people of Iowa during the floods.  

    And McCain got criticized (5.00 / 0) (#57)
    by Cream City on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 03:06:24 PM EST
    by some librul blogs for not going to Iowa, even after Obama decided at the last minute to also not go to Iowa -- and got praised for not going.

    I live in one of the flooded states.  I traveled across it and to Iowa and another still-flooded state soon afterward.  I saw the devastation of homes, farm fields, and more.  If campaign signs washed away with front yards, who cares which name was on which campaign sign?  Yards and homes and a year's crops are gone.

    Let's not pretzelate and politicize this one, too.  


    Considering... (none / 0) (#68)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 03:26:31 PM EST
    ...John McCain did, in fact, go to Iowa against the express wishes of the Governor and Obama was respectful of the request, I don't understand your point.  

    Panding for votes by using people's suffering is a political issue for me.  


    I stand corrected, then, if you're correct (5.00 / 0) (#71)
    by Cream City on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 03:44:28 PM EST
    but recall reading a different story here.

    Now it really gets complicated in terms of perceptions, as Obama also went into the flood area, even though in his own state -- but just across from Iowa.  And I read that the press entourage was the problem more than a drain on local police, as the press just went across the bridges to Iowa, anyway.  And that the locals didn't all appreciate it.

    Perhaps it starts to get so complicated that it may be yet another idea best left alone.  Perhaps what McCain and Obama both need to do is to do their jobs -- and issue a joint call for Congress to get the heck back to Washington where it belongs, and where it can do its job to be sure that FEMA doesn't f**k this up again.


    Obama did go to Iowa (none / 0) (#80)
    by JavaCityPal on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 08:49:46 PM EST
    The media published photos of him helping to fill sand bags.

    He was not going to go because he said he didn't want to interrupt what the people needed to do to deal with the floods.


    Obama has to be careful (none / 0) (#46)
    by Cream City on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 02:43:53 PM EST
    and handled it okay.  He went into our Midwest floodlands this summer, after all -- Secret Service and entourage and all, with the distraction for local law forces.  It was absolutely correct to do on his own state's Mississippi coast, of course.  I can't recall if he went to Iowa, too -- I think that part of the fact-finding mission was called off.

    Gov. Culver Asked Both To Wait (none / 0) (#78)
    by daring grace on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 07:41:47 PM EST
    McCain Went Anyway

    Obama didn't

    As you say, he went to flooded parts of his own state, Illinois.


    Kinda like obama photo-opping in Europe? (none / 0) (#76)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 06:10:00 PM EST
    It's hard to fault the repubs when dems are doing the same thing imo.

    I know. (none / 0) (#14)
    by Cream City on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 02:13:05 PM EST
    Because Palin wasn't in the real one.

    Bush will be in TX, so he's not in the way; McCain (none / 0) (#32)
    by jawbone on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 02:27:06 PM EST
    if he's down there, will be one the other side of damage areas until it's OK to enter. May give acceptance from the region or NOLA.

    Don't do that, John. Tacky. Just keep yourself and your entourage, plus Secret Service, away. Ok???


    Michael Palin for President.... (5.00 / 3) (#2)
    by jerry on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 02:03:08 PM EST
    All this Sarah Palin talk left me wanting some of the original.  C-C-Can we have a Michael Palin Th-th-thread sometime?

    A log of bloggers and commenters could learn a lot from Michael Palin and the Pythons in The Argument Clinic.

    M: An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.
    A:   No it isn't.
    M:  Yes it is! It's not just contradiction.
    A:   Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.
    M:  Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.'
    A:   Yes it is!
    M:   No it isn't!

    A:   Yes it is!
    M:  Argument is an intellectual process. Contradiction is just the automatic gainsaying of any statement the other person makes.
    (short pause)
    A:  No it isn't.

    (Monty Python at the Hollywood Bowl -- best concert experience for a geek ever, best reason to camp out for tickets ever, even if they did almost knock me out when they started tossing Fosters Cans from the stage.)

    Palin/Cleese (none / 0) (#6)
    by Claw on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 02:08:52 PM EST
    I'd support that ticket in a heartbeat.
    "This is an EX-PARRET!"

    Or perhaps just an open thread (none / 0) (#21)
    by Redshoes on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 02:17:54 PM EST
    I watching a PBS ("share the responsibility") pledge show of Pete Seeger and reminded again that progress isn't easy but it comes.

    Is there a Fantasy General Election? (none / 0) (#26)
    by Fabian on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 02:22:15 PM EST
    I admit I'd suck at it.  I totally struck out on Biden and Palin.  I would have underestimated the Clintons' speeches and not guessed that Obama would have actually used Issues in his speech.  I might have gotten Kucinich right, but struck out on Wes Clark.  

    My guesses for the RNC are few.  Motherhood will get a huge boost.  Working motherhood will be celebrated as well.  Political activism by women will be encouraged although it must not violate accepted standards.  (Women must not neglect their families or children.) Families will be popular too.

    Unfortunately, the economic focus will be as it always is on "growing the economy" and making it possible for businesses "to create new jobs".  Renewable energy will get a nod there.  There's money in them thar windmills!

    I wonder if there will be any rhetoric about special needs children, especially when it comes to education.  

    There will be the usual blather about national security.  If they are very smart, they will tie every single thing into the economy and America's Families.

    Oh, and Hillary Clinton will get praised by Palin and McCain at a minimum.  Obama will get a mention for being Historic.  Biden will be respected, if not praised.  


    Monty Python Link (none / 0) (#28)
    by Dadler on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 02:23:23 PM EST
    Hey! Did you see me in the audience around 1:59? (none / 0) (#55)
    by jerry on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 03:03:17 PM EST
    Looks like the GOP may ... (5.00 / 2) (#13)
    by Robot Porter on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 02:12:59 PM EST
    cynically use Gustav to their advantage, depending on the severity.

    Part telethon for hurricane victims, part GOP convention.

    Will people fall for that?

    Not any more cynical (5.00 / 2) (#18)
    by cmugirl on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 02:15:49 PM EST
    Than Obama, who is going to email supporters to send money.

    At least (5.00 / 2) (#25)
    by indy in sc on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 02:21:44 PM EST
    that will do good.  Of course there is a political aspect to it, but it actually would bring needed support.  McCain and Palin visiting ahead of and during the storm will divert needed emergency personnel and just get in the way.  They would do better to stay home and ask their supporters to send money.  If the GOP turns their convention into a telethon for Lousiana and any other state that ends up affected--good for them.

    Read below (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by cmugirl on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 02:35:50 PM EST
    The Republicans may turn their convention into a money raising telethon for the Red Cross.

    Again, not any more cynical than Obama sending an email.


    Read my comment that you are replying to. (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by indy in sc on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 02:40:09 PM EST
    I acknowledged that the GOP might do that and that it would be a good thing.

    If the GOP turns their convention into a telethon for Lousiana and any other state that ends up affected--good for them.

    Perhaps ... (none / 0) (#22)
    by Robot Porter on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 02:18:40 PM EST
    but I think the GOP has be careful not to look too opportunistic.

    If they play it right, it could work in their favor.

    But if it's too maudlin or cute, it might blow up in their faces.


    Be careful (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by angie on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 02:16:21 PM EST
    See what Don Fowler had to say about Gustov before we start throwing stones.

    I think people will fall for it with Millions of $ (5.00 / 0) (#69)
    by JavaCityPal on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 03:27:33 PM EST
    contributions to the hurricane victims.

    This sharing of the convention with a telethon for relief appears to me like something Cindy McCain may have come up with.

    Not shilling for her husband, just saying her charitable side has been very visible for a long time.


    Don Fowler is overjoyed at the timing (5.00 / 3) (#16)
    by angie on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 02:13:56 PM EST
    because Gustav hitting NOLA during the RNC proves that "God is on our [the Dems] side."

    Substantiated here.

    As a former New Orleanian -- heck, as a human being -- I'm outraged about this. The man needs to lose whatever position/influence he has in the DNC & I think we should all demand that that occur.

    So there is something worse (5.00 / 7) (#23)
    by Cream City on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 02:19:40 PM EST
    than Sarah Palin jokes that Dems can do.

    I really didn't want to know how low it could go.

    And Angie, I love your former city.  I'm sorry for how hard this day must be again for you as well as for so many hundreds of thousands there.


    Oops ... (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by Robot Porter on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 02:19:52 PM EST
    that was stupid.

    Glenn G writes more about the outrageous arrests (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by jawbone on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 02:23:10 PM EST
    and searches of protesters in the Twin Cities.

    What the FBI and the municipalities seem to have learned from the NYC Repub Convention illegal arrests is to simply confiscate the video cameras of those who will try to document the atrocities (and the are legal and Constitutional "atrocities" and the word is used with full emphasis on of its meaning).

    Check out Glenn Greenwald's post today and the others he's written about wholesale arrests of possible protesters and lawyers and reporters even.  Apparently, authorities have said they can hold the detainees for 36 hours before charging them, and the 36 hours does not begin until after Labor Day! Whassup with this??? Aside from a naked power play to intimidate citizens who would wish to freely asemble and protest?

    Glennzilla offers a stinging comparison of our MCM*'s reactions to Chinese crackdowns and protest limitations with their less than strong defense of First Amendment rights in the Good Ol' US of A. Or, is it zero defense? The good citizen just "gets in line" and obeys authority, no matter what the orders?

    Where is the outrage? Where is the defense of liberty? Where is our Constitution.

    And why is the FBI involved in all this???

    *MCM--Mainstream Corporate Media

    Speaking (none / 0) (#41)
    by Wile ECoyote on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 02:37:05 PM EST
    of which, what ever happened to the news guys arrested in Denver for filming the Monied interests behind the Democrat party?

    ABC Reporter's Attorneys Want All Charges Dropped (none / 0) (#54)
    by Andreas on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 03:01:07 PM EST
    The Oracle posts about the warrants for the Twin (none / 0) (#79)
    by jawbone on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 08:07:01 PM EST
    Cities house raids: Ingredients for Molotov cocktails! Explains why we are now all subject to such warrants.

    Glass containers, cloth, styrofoam, paper and soap - components for a Molotov Cocktail (then every one of us has the components for a Molotov cocktail, and therefore every one of us can have a warrant placed against)

    Ignitable liquids like gasoline, breke fluid (again, every one us has evidence in his/her house that they have the means to create incendiary devices)

    Improvised explosive device containers such as metal, glass, plastic or cardboard ( wow, that really limits the number of people...)

    Lawyerly types: Will this stand up in court?

    But, that wasn't the point was it? To have evidence for a trial or even indictment. The point was to keep people locked up just long enough, to harrass, and to intimidate others....

    They don't have to arrest us all--just enough to scare many who might think of freely assembling and protesting. We may not all be terrists now, but we're all the target audience for this piece of governmental guerrilla theater.


    But (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by Andy08 on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 02:23:51 PM EST
    are we free to critizice Obama-Biden? Or will any criticism be censored?  

    Politics are not black and white, and as a Democrat there are lots of things I do not like. I am not a Rep. and I am not for McCain-Palin.  

    But the last threads leave me wondering whether this site still tolerates healthy criticisms of our ticket? I surely hope so...

    Diagreement on issues and politics (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 02:31:31 PM EST
    and with a candidate's actions are fine. I've said that repeatedly. Endorsing, supporting and opposing a ticket is different than disagreement. We disagree with the Dems frequently.

    There will be no shilling for McCain/Palin here and comments expressing support for the ticket or opposition to the Democratic ticket are limited to four a day.

    I'm tired of explaining this, I've done it many times in the past few weeks.


    I respect that (5.00 / 0) (#42)
    by Andy08 on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 02:37:46 PM EST
    but sometimes you seem imply someone is shilling for McCain when doesn't seem to at all ( eg. one comment by zfran in previous thread) which seems unfair.

    Hope you take my criticism as contructive and well meaning.

    Back to the issues.


    I do (none / 0) (#50)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 02:54:25 PM EST
    and I did not suggest ZFran was shilling but expressing support for the McCain/Palin ticket.

    The difference: Shilling is advocating others vote for a ticket. I have never allowed any shilling for republican or third party candidates here.

    Expressing support and endorsement/oppositon  are comments like "I am voting for McCain/Palin" or "I won't vote for Obama." It's those comments that are limited to four a day.

    Stick to policy disagreement, disagreeement with campaign strategy, of voting records, position on issues, etc. criticism of the media coverage, etc and you'll be fine.

    New ocmmenters by the way are limited to 10 comments a day regardless of their position. They need to become familiar with the site and its rules.  


    Deal !! (none / 0) (#58)
    by Andy08 on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 03:06:33 PM EST
    Thank you.

    CNN Headline- Bush: 'This storm is dangerous' (5.00 / 3) (#33)
    by steviez314 on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 02:29:01 PM EST
    Storm replies, "Look who's talking!"

    Go to your gas stations now (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by Cream City on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 02:57:36 PM EST
    and get a fillup, so you can save some money to send to the people of NOLA, not to the oil companies.

    We just went to fuel up, after I read that oil prices are soaring because of the hurricane.  The NOLA port closes soon.  Etc.

    Done and done, this morning. n/t (none / 0) (#61)
    by Valhalla on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 03:11:09 PM EST
    Really? (none / 0) (#64)
    by Andy08 on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 03:14:00 PM EST
    I'll go soon then. Hadn't heard that here but I wouldn't be surprised.

    I saw the oil prices story (none / 0) (#66)
    by Cream City on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 03:21:25 PM EST
    on google news.  I haven't seen a story yet about impact on prices at the pump, but I don't need the press to translate that for me anymore.  Been there too often before.  I live in the state with the highest gas prices, per some rankings I've seen, so we have learned to watch and anticipate price increases for all sorts of factors.

    And based on the past, prices will go up at some pumps tonight, even though they'll still be pumping gas bought a week ago at lower prices.  And maybe some stations will get caught for it, and maybe some will be fined for it.  A year from now or so.  But the people who paid at the pumps still will have paid higher prices tomorrow or the next day.  I hate that. . . .

    Anyway: Remember, send your savings to the people of NOLA.


    saw on a scroll line (none / 0) (#73)
    by DFLer on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:02:15 PM EST
    that the price of oil went up during a special Sunday session called for the market...WTF is with that?

    Repubs ripping up convention schedule (5.00 / 0) (#65)
    by Cream City on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 03:14:21 PM EST
    starting later tomorrow, rescheduling roll call for some other day, winging it day by day with briefings for schedule for following day, etc. -- per press conference right now on CNN.

    The main information, it just was said, will be a business-only meeting tomorrow, i.e., no political rhetoric tomorrow.  And that coordination is underway of convention fundraising for hurricane victims' relief.

    They're handling it well so far.  Now come the questions from the press.

    When is Sarah Palin scheduled to (none / 0) (#5)
    by oculus on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 02:07:48 PM EST
    speak at the convention?

    Wednesday (none / 0) (#8)
    by Teresa on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 02:09:19 PM EST
    Expect "Homecoming Week" ... (1.00 / 0) (#19)
    by Robot Porter on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 02:15:54 PM EST

    You've been warned.


    Huh? What does that mean? Explication appreciated. (none / 0) (#30)
    by jawbone on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 02:24:24 PM EST
    She's a former beauty queen (none / 0) (#72)
    by jtaylorr on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 03:45:41 PM EST
    Actually I think Bush will be in Texas (none / 0) (#7)
    by Redshoes on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 02:09:02 PM EST
    Austin I think.   And McCain Mississippi.  The Republicans are taking a very bad situation and making the most of it as they're transforming their convention to "volunteerism".  

    That should be applauded but again the Democrats have to remind the electorate why effective government matters.  

    I think we dems (5.00 / 5) (#11)
    by americanincanada on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 02:11:08 PM EST
    should stay as far away from making this situation political as we possibly can.

    The american people do not want to see fighting and partisan politics during a crisis or disaster.


    McCain called Palin his "soulmate" but (none / 0) (#10)
    by steviez314 on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 02:09:40 PM EST
    I think that picture shows who his true soulmate is.

    It's a cult (none / 0) (#56)
    by jondee on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 03:05:28 PM EST
    regime change and drown the New Deal in a bath tub.

    And it has alot of soulmates.


    But (none / 0) (#59)
    by jondee on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 03:09:59 PM EST
    at least these fascistic social Darwinists have alot of "experience" as fascistic social Darwinists.

    McCain and the Cheneys and David Addingtons are all seasoned and ready to lead.


    I read (none / 0) (#15)
    by cmugirl on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 02:13:19 PM EST
    That the McCain campaign is holding a press conference at 4 (Eastern) today to discuss changes to the convention.  They are considering changing the convention to a big telethon to raise money for the Red Cross.


    I wonder if the two campaigns seeming to (none / 0) (#60)
    by Valhalla on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 03:10:00 PM EST
    cooperate in battling the hurricane might not raise both their favorability ratings.

    Like the prisoner's dilemma choice that benefits both parties the most, but no one ever picks.

    I thought (this will come as a shock, I'm sure) that Obama's statement was very good -- now's not the time for partisan attacks -- but keep the attention on the impending disaster so people might turn their energy to aiding the affected.  

    My hope is that whatever both campaigns do, no matter how crass or political, will ultimatley rebound (redound?) to the benefit of the people affected by the storm.

    Well, I'm off to give some money to the Red Cross.


    Nice pic! (none / 0) (#17)
    by Faust on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 02:14:54 PM EST
    Who does the TL pictures out of curiosity?

    the talkleft photos are (none / 0) (#31)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 02:25:01 PM EST
    created by "C.L., our man in Hollywood." He is a professional illustrator who wishes to remain anonymous and has created and contributed over 100 of them for TalkLeft. I have an assemblage of most of them on TalkLeft's Facebook page. (You don't have to be a Facebook member to view them.) The albums are here and here.

    Cool! (none / 0) (#34)
    by Faust on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 02:29:26 PM EST

    No Cheney Either (none / 0) (#48)
    by mmc9431 on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 02:45:22 PM EST
    Cheney won't be at convention either. Maybe McCain and the Republican Party prefer it that way. They certainly won't help them come November. As bad as they've dragged the Party down, I think even the Republican's are looking forward to seeing the back of them.

    In the interests of clarification (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by jondee on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 02:56:50 PM EST
    does this mean that continuing to run into ground the meme Obama supporter = woman hater (without being required to substantiate the charge with specific, convincing examples) might be up for consideration as falling into the category of baiting ad hominem and propagandizing?

    Is the (none / 0) (#63)
    by Andy08 on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 03:12:49 PM EST
    convention Tue through Friday included?

    It's being reported Bush-Cheney won't attend b/c of Gustav... is that true? (not the pandering, I mean the non-attending)

    Is there a way... (none / 0) (#70)
    by EL seattle on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 03:33:52 PM EST
    ... a standard protocol... of some sort that websites can (or should) use to identify Photoshop'd or otherwise altered images and graphics?  

    Something like the "/snark" tag that folks are encouraged to use in their posts.  Something that easily distinguishes a moment of "fact" from an intentional bit of "fiction".

    Maybe Web 3.0 will have something like this...?

    They should send the conventioneers (none / 0) (#75)
    by DFLer on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:10:32 PM EST
    to the last day of the MN State Fair in St. Paul, or the big Labor Day union bash at Harriet Island, with some great music at both. Labor Day event-party has Steve Earle and Mos Def among others.

    PALIN'S PASTORS (none / 0) (#77)
    by HankLKreig on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 07:37:10 PM EST

    Wikipedia says Sarah Palin's church is the Juneau Christian Center (JCC) in Juneau, Alaska.  The church's website says a pastor named Mark Zweifel preached there on January 13, 2008.  Audio copies of sermons are available on the JCC website.  One sermon attributed to Zweifel is titled "Prophetic Attacks."  Towards the end of that sermon, Zweifel tells the story of a woman named "Sharon."  Quoting from the audio file on JCC's website:

    "Maybe you're like Sharon... Sharon is an African-American lady who lived in a low-income housing apartment close to our church.  Sharon was an African-American, she loved God.  She was a grandmother who was raising her grandson because her son divorced his wife to pursue a homosexual relationship...  And then, she saw her daughter-in-law literally run away...  Here's Sharon raising her last grandson.  The other sons had left the faith, they had walked away from God, the family's dysfunctional, here's Sharon, she's raising her only grandson...  Everything had gone wrong for her... How do we know that?  Because one day Pastor Tom, who is a close friend of mine, goes to the apartment complex because there's 11 grocery stores that give us food every single day."

    After a digression, Zweifel continues explaining that Pastor Tom and others go to Sharon's apartment,"and the knock on the door, and all of the sudden they hear this woman begin to scream."

    At this point, you will hear a tasteless imitation of a black woman screaming "Oh my God, Oh God! Oh my God!"

    Then, continues Zweifel, "Pastor Tom opens the door, and she just gives him a big hug."  Zweifel laughs: "Huh huh huh... she's a big lady."  He finishes with a story about how the grandson had earlier left in a huff and said, when Sharon's cupboards were bare, "If God is real, there will be groceries here when I get back, grandma!"  Of course, they were well-provisioned when he returned.

    Some other choice quotes from the same sermon:

    "I have three beautiful, beautiful children who all possess a hormone that makes them crazy.  It's called estrogen."

    "We might adopt a little black boy here in a year or two and give a kid a chance who maybe wouldn't if someone didn't adopt him."

    The pastors at Palin's church talk in code, as is common among fundamentalists.  Abortionists, homosexual, and "nations aligned against God's people" seem to be their favorite targets.  Zweifel's sermon makes oblique references to Israel's enemies, and drops not-very-oblique hints that even today, God's people have the right to take from those enemies.  Zweifel says:  

    "How many of you guys know there's people who possess what you're supposed to have?  They've been living there awhile, and when God's people begin to move in the destiny, and things begin to happen, the enemy begins to hear 'Uh oh, we might be dislodged from our location.'"

    I am guessing that "what you're supposed to have" is code for "oil."  And needless to say, the enemies of God's people are hellspawn in this sermon.  Zweifel continues:

    "The moment they begin moving into what God has for them, all Hell breaks loose, and all of Hell comes together to say 'We better combine our forces, because if they can do that to Jericho, if they can do that with their God, what will they do to us?"

    Great foreign policy advice for a VP candidate who, according to reports, has traveled outside the USA exactly twice, including one trip to Ireland.  

    More from the JCC audio file:

    "When you begin to move into destiny, there will be attacks upon your life."

    "The enemy's not scared when you camp on the other side of your river.  They were so close to their destiny, but they camped for 40 years before they ever crossed... See, the difference between camping and crossing, when you cross over, you're gonna begin to inherit homes and lands."

    "My destiny's to take over what someone else right now has taken over for me, which is rightfully mine."

    I leave it others to explain what this all means.  You can find the sermon I referenced here:


    The Wiki article linking Palin to the JCC can be found here: