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Saturday Night Open Thread

The Florida Gators stomped the Rainbows Warriors of Hawaii 56-10. Michigan lost its home opener for the second year in a row, this time to Utah, 25-23. It was a good day.

This is an Open Thread.

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    My two games. (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by Dalton Hoffine on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 06:31:45 PM EST
    I'm most interested in Alabama-Clemson tonight at 8:00 ET. Go Tide! I hope we can pull off the upset.

    Wake Forest slaughtered Baylor on Thursday already, so hopefully I can go for the, uh... trifecta minus one. Bifecta?

    Since this is an Open Thread, I want to mention that I am working on my diary about the convention, now that I'm finally home. It'll take me awhile though, so don't expect it right now.

    I'm also looking into some interesting polling about the state of Florida. Insider Advantage, typically a pro-GOP shop, released a poll mid-convention that gave Obama a +1 advantage there. I don't think Sarah Palin will play well in Florida, as much as she might in the West or Appalachia, because of the number of seniors there. Biden, on the other hand, has always been well-liked in Florida, and many feel that he may be able to boost Obama's numbers there.

    Before the VP picks, I probably would've written Florida off the GOP, but now I'm not so sure. I'll be interested to see some further polling on the matter, and I'll also be interested to see how Gustav, Hanna, and any other hurricane that might hit between now and November would affect those numbers and the Dems chances. It's horrible on a certain level to think about using hurricanes for political gain, but on the other hand, one just can't help but wonder how it will play...

    Go SEC! (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 06:33:38 PM EST
    Michigan lost??? Where have I been? (none / 0) (#13)
    by Teresa on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 06:47:27 PM EST
    haha, my friend who went to West Virginia is probably laughing his butt off. After your game became a blowout, I watched Va Tech lose and totally missed the MI game. Wow.

    Go SEC (though it pains me to root for Nick Sabin)

    Parent

    Saban (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by Dalton Hoffine on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 06:57:22 PM EST
    I met him at the A-Day game this year (spring scrimmage) and he really doesn't seem to be too bad of a guy. If you're an LSU fan or a Miami Dolphins fan, then... well... I suppose I can see the love not lost there. But my impressions of him aren't too bad.

    But then, I'm a willing Alabama Crimson Tide Cherry Kool-Aid drinker. Roll Tide Forever. :P

    Parent

    You're going to make Oculus sad! (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 06:57:49 PM EST
    It was the most exciting game of the day (so far).  Michigan tried to come back in the second half, but just fell short.  The Illinois/Mizzu game will hopefully be a good one too.

    And I'm happy because my Hawks rolled over the Maine Blackbears.

    Parent

    How did the crowd react? Here at TN, they (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by Teresa on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:03:26 PM EST
    are ready to fire Fulmer when he goes 11-2. I know they are the same up there.

    This puts pressure on Rodriquez, doesn't it? I'm starting to believe in karma.

    Parent

    Disappointed and subdued... (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:10:29 PM EST
    ...but no overt boos and it didn't look like they were ready to string Rich up just yet.  The pressure is indeed on, but he can redeem himself just by beating OSU.  

    Parent
    Oculus's mood is not football results (none / 0) (#52)
    by oculus on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:16:33 PM EST
    dependent, actually.  And fortunately.  It is quite a beautiful day in San Diego and I listened to the game while walking at Harbor Island.  Sun bouncing off the water. Great.  Here's my question though:  one of the radio guys doing the Mich/Utah game on Westwood NCAA network was called "coach."  Southern accent.  Quite knowledgeable (says me, who isn't).  Who was he?  

    Parent
    Most likely... (none / 0) (#62)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:23:37 PM EST
    Terry Bowden.  Although there's alot of southern guys called "Coach"

    Parent
    Yes. Michigan (ranked 24 pre-season (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by oculus on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:02:28 PM EST
    in one poll), lost to Utah, which appears to be unranked by anyone nationally and, has lost its last 3 season openers.  Michigan quarterback:  not a fast start running wise and a freshman. Utah, over 100 yds. in penalties.  U of M:  Not looking good.  

    But, anyhow, didn't Appalachian State lose to LSU?  That is cheering news.

    Parent

    Not cheering to our family! (none / 0) (#99)
    by CCinNC on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:49:00 PM EST
    Our son is a senior there.  Frankly, I'd expected LSU to be more than ready for Appalachian, but I'd hoped we'd do a little better.

    Parent
    Holy cow! Tiffin kicked at 54 yard field goal! (5.00 / 2) (#69)
    by kempis on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:27:12 PM EST
    Nice start to the season for the Tide. :)

    Parent
    Seriously! (none / 0) (#78)
    by Dalton Hoffine on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:33:03 PM EST
    I about had a heart attack.

    Parent
    So I caved and got an iphone today (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by andgarden on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 06:31:54 PM EST
    It's excellent, but let me tell you, Apple and AT&T have not coordinated well on purchase and activation. My AT&T account is from the stone ages (2004), and was originally with AT&T Wireless (i.e., pre Cingular merger). It took an hour to get sorted out.

    But now I have mobile Safari and visual voicemail!

    yay, same here (5.00 / 2) (#19)
    by DandyTIger on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 06:52:51 PM EST
    though I didn't have any of those hassles since I was new to ATT. What a great thing. Wait until you download some of the fun apps out there.

    Parent
    In my mind's eye, you are a struggling, (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by oculus on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:17:27 PM EST
    impoverished beginning law student!

    Parent
    Your mind's eye doesn't account (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by andgarden on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:20:56 PM EST
    for my limousine liberalism. . .  

    Parent
    Would someone like to explain to me (5.00 / 3) (#4)
    by lilburro on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 06:35:12 PM EST
    why attacking Alaska is a good idea?  Let me count the typical Dem stereotypes that it plays into:

    1.  We are elitists.
    2.  We live in cities, and Alaska doesn't have enough of those for us.
    3.  We don't respect rural life.

    Attacking Alaska will take us nowhere good.  Hopefully Obama's advisors do not go there.  There are no red or blue states, but Alaska doesn't count?  I guess we are just making this sh*t up as we go along.

    We should not give Republicans the opportunity to embarrass us, nor should we move away from the new Dem approach of embracing the identities of all 50 states and figuring out what we can do in each.  

    Shoot down Palin as she comes up with new explanations for why she is qualified, if you want to.  But don't discredit her from the very beginning because she's from Alaska.  We should learn some lessons from Northern Exposure.

    Alaska (5.00 / 0) (#6)
    by Dalton Hoffine on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 06:39:28 PM EST
    I think it would be interesting to see how most people view the state of Alaska. I think in the West, Alaska is considered a normal state, just like any of them, but in the South and East, I sometimes get the feeling that Alaska is some sort of strange place way up in the Arctic that is part of America just as much as Hawaii is... but not as much as the mainland States are. Alaska carries with it a twinge of "foreign" for most people in the East, I think.

    Now, obviously we shouldn't attack Alaska by trying to make it sound like some sort of a foreign place, or anything of that nature. But bringing up Ted Stevens and the rest of the scandal-clad Republicans up there might be a profitable endeavor. Don't even mention Palin by name... but if there's a way to associate Alaskan Republicans as "corrupt" on the national stage, it might be an advantage.

    Parent

    And then she can talk about (none / 0) (#18)
    by nycstray on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 06:52:34 PM EST
    taking on the old guard there. Didn't she get a couple to resign, etc?

    Parent
    She has. (5.00 / 0) (#22)
    by Dalton Hoffine on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 06:56:02 PM EST
    Although I think only informed voters will make that distinction. If Alaskan Republicans can get a bad name nationally, even if only a few percent of undecided voters don't get the message that she was a reformer there (though she does have her own abuse of power investigation--and Dem machines are trying to find even more), that could prove to help the blue side in November.

    Parent
    The one thing all voters are going to know (5.00 / 3) (#56)
    by Valhalla on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:20:04 PM EST
    about Sarah Palin by week's end, if not by weekend's end, is that she's a rootin' tootin' anti-corruption warrior for truth, justice and the American Way.

    It's already all over the news, and the Republicans are NOT going to do anything other than hammer it home 24/7.

    And broken record time:  I'm really, really tired of the whole high information/low information cr&p.

    Parent

    Is that what you learned in Denver (2.00 / 0) (#177)
    by gyrfalcon on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 08:50:27 PM EST
    Dalton, how to smear by association and shrug it off because they're only Republicans, after all?

    Feh.


    Parent

    The previous gov made (5.00 / 3) (#23)
    by Cream City on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 06:56:17 PM EST
    35! political patronage appointments as he walked out the door.

    She walked in and cancelled them all.  And then took out some more, yes.

    I read that she is seen as "scary" by the old-guard there.  I have read a lot about Alaska and its corruption (on our federal funds).  I can see why she was considered scary by such types.

    It could be a backstory as to the investigation already.  We will see.

    Parent

    Very true (none / 0) (#120)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:58:21 PM EST
    Down here in the south, Alaska is kind of seen as a foreign country. If the Obama campaign had played it that way it might have been effective. The thing that seems so foreign to me about AK is the times of the year when you have nothing but darkness or daylight. Talk about a place that could make you bipolar.

    BTW, Howard Dean sent me a mailer the other day that said AK was one of their targeted swing states. I guess that went down the drain. Of course, though he also had OR? and WA? as swing states? Even GA? The whole map looked like it was put together by a crazy person.

    Parent

    Heheheh (none / 0) (#142)
    by lilburro on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 08:19:27 PM EST
    I bet that map is pretty hilarious.  I was pretty sure OR was in the bag, am I wrong?

    I've always heard Alaska was a beautiful place for a cruise.  

    Parent

    I'm still learning (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by kredwyn on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 06:40:14 PM EST
    from Upstate NY. Apparently I can borrow my grandmother's pie recipe, bake a blackberry pie, put a $22 price tag on it and sell it at the local farmer's market.

    And it'll actually sell!!!

    City folk...strange bunch.

    Parent

    Hah! I should do that (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by nycstray on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 06:50:17 PM EST
    when I move to CA  {grin} I'll be living in the mountains surrounded by farms and vineyards.  I can drive down to the city markets, lol!~

    Parent
    I just found her zuchinni bread (none / 0) (#29)
    by kredwyn on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 06:58:04 PM EST
    recipe. She was a recipe packrat...with absolutely no organization.

    Parent
    No, attacking Alaska is very stupid (5.00 / 2) (#9)
    by andgarden on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 06:41:40 PM EST
    I can't imagine why anyone would.

    Parent
    Don Gonyea, NPR radio, travelingww (none / 0) (#39)
    by oculus on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:06:00 PM EST
    w/the Obama campaign (on the bus) just dissed Alaska also.  Strange.  And I think he is either from Michigan or spent alot of years there as NPR's reporter on the auto industry..

    Parent
    Soon we will be seeing (none / 0) (#89)
    by lilburro on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:43:18 PM EST
    Anderson Cooper on Alaska, 60 minutes in Alaska, blah blah blah...and heaven knows the RNC is going to produce some long video on Alaska.  Considering that Alaska was already in the bag for them, I imagine they'll be milking it in various other ways.  Being on the record as dissing Alaska is not going to be good for the Dems.

    Parent
    I guess it is in Appalachia after all (none / 0) (#93)
    by DandyTIger on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:46:33 PM EST
    blasted clingy racists. Don't they know they should worship anyone who goes to a good private school.

    Hmm, wait a minute, they should :-)

    Parent

    I guess Alaska is female!!!! (none / 0) (#165)
    by zfran on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 08:32:53 PM EST
    My east coast relatives and (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by JavaCityPal on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 06:47:11 PM EST
    friends who have traveled there, say that Delaware is not just small, it is the one state in the country they would never, ever want to live it. So, VP to VP state comparisons may be a problem.


    Parent
    Hey (5.00 / 2) (#103)
    by Redshoes on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:51:30 PM EST
    no dissin Delaware.  

    Parent
    Making it (5.00 / 1) (#110)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:53:06 PM EST
    up as we go along? Yep, that seems to be the MO for months now.

    I simply can't believe how dumb those talking points are. It falls right into the trap that the McCain campaign has set.

    Parent

    The Clinton campaign was (none / 0) (#125)
    by Cards In 4 on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 08:02:59 PM EST
    criticized for not having a plan after super Tuesday.  It seems the Obama campaign didn't have a plan after the last primary.

    And that first ad with Palin as the VP is really weak.  Are all these guys still on vacation in Hawaii?

    Parent

    I made (none / 0) (#154)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 08:25:48 PM EST
    that point months ago during the primary. I saw that they had NO general election campaign strategy. They think that winning the Dem primary equals winning the election. They haven't a clue as how to run against the GOP.

    Apparently I'm not the only one that thinks that ad was weak. I don't know why they did an ad with Palin. Why help out the GOP? Why remind everyone that McCain picked a woman when Obama didn't?

    Parent

    who's behind the anti-Palin smear site? (none / 0) (#174)
    by Josey on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 08:47:16 PM EST
    scroll - but warning! Little Green Footballs -

    http://tinyurl.com/5sucjx


    Parent

    Politalkix (5.00 / 0) (#7)
    by cmugirl on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 06:39:55 PM EST
    I would like to respond to your post in the last thread.

    try making your point regarding entry level and flipping burgers to people like Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Jerry Yang and Sergei Brin. The thousands of people who are employed at Microsoft, Apple, Yahoo and Google and people who use these companies products are extremely grateful that they did not wait to get more "experience" before founding their companies.

    True, those CEO's didn't have "experience" before founding their companies.  But they also didn't have the same jobs they have now, nor get those jobs with a couple of years of running their companies - they started in garages, not in charge of thousands of people and billions of dollars. They got where they are now after 20 years of working and learning and building.

    An entrepreneurial prez (5.00 / 2) (#14)
    by Cream City on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 06:48:54 PM EST
    I don't want.  I've read the studies on entrepreneurs.  They succeed by breaking rules.

    I think Bush read those studies, too.  They teach 'em in the Harvard MBA program.  

    I prefer a prez who pays attention to the rules called the Constitution.  For starters.

    Parent

    You seem to have a very warped view (none / 0) (#187)
    by Politalkix on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 09:07:49 PM EST
    of entrepreneurs. That is all I can say. Just like people in any other profession, some break rules while others do not.

    Parent
    You seem to have not read (none / 0) (#199)
    by Cream City on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 10:06:51 PM EST
    the studies on entrepreneurs.  When you do, come on back to talk about 'em, bless your heart.

    Parent
    You missed my point (5.00 / 1) (#175)
    by Politalkix on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 08:48:51 PM EST
    When the primaries started, HRC was a behemoth like IBM and Obama was a small start up company like Microsoft, Apple or Google in its early days. Obama got where he is now by starting his campaign from scratch and building it brick by brick. He was just a candidate among many others at the beginning, now he is the Presidential nominee of the Democrat Party. Just like the mentioned entrepreneurs, he surrounded himself with smart people to get to where he is now.
    Those who saw the potential in him to be a great President are also like the early employees, investors and customers of companies like Microsoft, Google, etc who saw such potential in people like Bill Gates, Steve Jobs and others.

    Parent
    Those who saw the potential in Obama (none / 0) (#200)
    by Cream City on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 10:11:21 PM EST
    put him in the keynote convention spot in 2004 -- Kerry, Kennedy, et al.  And then that Dem insider group started raising money for him.  That campaign hardly came from nowhere; have you missed all the discussion here of how much funding he already had long before the campaign started publicly?

    It's all in the archives here.  Let's not pretend that anyone can come from nowhere and get a massive political campaign up and running these days.  It takes long-term commitment, dedication, and a crazy schedule well before the primaries start.  You also can search the archives to see how many Senate votes Obama (and other candidates then) had to miss because they were on the road raising money -- in his case, almost as soon as he got to the Senate.

    Gone are the days when the common man or woman could break into politics.

    Parent

    Don't know about all of them, but (none / 0) (#16)
    by JavaCityPal on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 06:50:22 PM EST
    Bill Gates dad, a very wealthy attorney, surrounded Bill & Paul (Paul Allen co-founded Microsoft) with the best and the brightest to guarantee the success of Microsoft.


    Parent
    The biggest event in Ohio this WE... (5.00 / 2) (#10)
    by lucky leftie on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 06:44:46 PM EST
    ...was the foot injury of OSU running back and Heisman candidate Beanie Wells.  

    X-rays are negative at least. (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:06:51 PM EST
    Even if he is out for awhile, I doubt it is going to hurt them that much.  Too deep and too talented of a team.

    Parent
    Nothing but a built in excuse... (none / 0) (#172)
    by EddieInCA on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 08:44:28 PM EST
    ...for when they get pounded by Southern Cal in two weeks.

    SC hasn't lost a non-conference game (other than the National Title game against Texas) in about 6 years.  And they've stomped a few SEC teams on the road in the process.


    Parent

    Ooooh. This is good for Michigan. (none / 0) (#43)
    by oculus on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:08:21 PM EST
    Where is your compassion? Is this still the (none / 0) (#45)
    by Teresa on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:09:57 PM EST
    Smack Talk thread?  :)

    Parent
    BTD is still talking smack, so I think (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by oculus on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:44:58 PM EST
    I'm o.k.  I didn't insult the Obama/Biden ticket!

    Parent
    Uga VII has arrived, named `Loran's Best' (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by nycstray on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 06:47:10 PM EST
    named `Loran's Best'

    My college football contribution {grin}

    Go Yankees!! Go Jets!!

    Uga is the cutest mascot (none / 0) (#32)
    by Joan in VA on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:01:16 PM EST
    and even a movie star(whichever number that one was in "Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil"-one of my favorite movies of all time).

    Parent
    heh (none / 0) (#124)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 08:02:04 PM EST
    you liked the movie? I didn't care for the movie much but I loved, loved! the book. I read it 4 times. I was in Savannah 2 years ago and they still have what they call "the book" tours. I would love to go to bonaventure cemetary. I took a tour when I was there but it was mostly around downtown.

    Parent
    saw the book tour on TV (none / 0) (#135)
    by DandyTIger on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 08:14:21 PM EST
    it was great. I'm sure better in person, but they walked through all the places and talked about the murder and all the great characters, etc. Wow, fantastic.

    Parent
    Oh, I know... (none / 0) (#168)
    by Joan in VA on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 08:37:09 PM EST
    It's all about the BOOK in Savannah but I did it backwards. I would never mention the movie if I went there. Savannah is definitely on my list of places I want to visit.

    Parent
    The blogs and media miss the obvious Palin result (5.00 / 4) (#17)
    by boredmpa on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 06:50:56 PM EST
    I've been too busy to follow much of any of the Palin coverage, but what I've seen has had me laughing sooo hard.

    The most obvious and glaring result of the Palin pick is that the media will give increased focus to her, with a sexist or double standard slant, and thereby depress Democrat voter turnout while energizing the Republican voter turnout.

    Winning over Hillary voters? Who writes that crap with a straight face??!  The same people that have been shoving sexist coverage in our faces for 6+ months.  2 more months of sexism is not good for the obama campaign.  

    There is absolutely nothing that the obama campaign can do to stop an even more depressed turnout of people turned off by 8 months of continuous sexism and double standards.

    I'm ordering a Mcgovern O8 mug for the office.

    That's why I love this site (5.00 / 0) (#21)
    by flashman on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 06:54:35 PM EST
    For these C-R-A-Z-Y thoeries.  I don't mean crazy as a slight to the poster.  Sometimes, crazy becomes mainstream :)

    Parent
    Well, sexism from the media and blogs will (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by Teresa on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 06:57:36 PM EST
    not be a helpful reminder to Obama's campaign. Everyone needs to be careful but I see no evidence of it so far on TV or blogs other than this one.

    Parent
    Then don't go anywhere near (5.00 / 2) (#63)
    by Jeannie on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:24:00 PM EST
    DKos or MyDD. The nastiness and sexism about Palin is rampant.
    What are these people thinking? Don't they get that women are more than half the population? Don't they understand that Obama also lacks experience? Don't they realize that sexism and ugly behavior has already turned off a lot of female voters? What has happened to so-called Democrats?

    Parent
    In a word? (5.00 / 2) (#70)
    by kredwyn on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:27:47 PM EST
    no

    Parent
    well you don't watch CNN (5.00 / 1) (#139)
    by TimNCGuy on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 08:16:46 PM EST
    Friday night Paul Begala was on CNN and couldn't mention Palin's "beaty queen" history enough. He even surmised that her "pageant" days was where she gained the poise and confidence she displayed in her first public appearance.

    Parent
    Cripes (5.00 / 3) (#146)
    by echinopsia on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 08:20:51 PM EST
    What IS it with "progressive" men? Begala of ALL people should know better than this.

    I have only two heroes left. They're both named Clinton.

    Parent

    Well, there's also BTD and Paul Krugman:) (5.00 / 3) (#155)
    by Dr Molly on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 08:26:22 PM EST
    Just read about one (none / 0) (#157)
    by TimNCGuy on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 08:27:17 PM EST
    by John Roberts as well questioning how she would be able to handle the job and take care of a downs syndrome baby at the same time.

    Parent
    I saw that. My other comment is down the page (none / 0) (#160)
    by Teresa on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 08:29:33 PM EST
    due to some deletions but I agree totally. I didn't phrase it well, but I meant I see no evidence they have learned any lessons or improved their behavior at all.

    Parent
    Exactly and remember (5.00 / 2) (#164)
    by abfabdem on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 08:31:46 PM EST
    they excused their behavior toward Hillary by saying it was just about her and not all women, but now we see their true colors because here they are doing it again.  This party ain't so progressive after all. So how do I trust them to look after my interests when they have such a low opinion of those of my gender?

    Parent
    I think so, too (5.00 / 3) (#31)
    by Cream City on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:00:30 PM EST
    and not to steal thunder, but I wrote it here sometime yesterday and again later, I think.  But no  reply -- so I'm glad to see someone else sees it.

    It's not crazy at all.  Republicans win by suppressing turnout.  Legally or illegally.  It's a well-known axiom in politics, especially urban politics.  That would be, of course, Dem turf.  

    And yes, a lot of comments I saw and heard yesterday in response to the sexism and misogyny even on the left blogs could just tell some voters to give up and stay home.

    I hope that at least they go to the polls to vote downticket.  We need Congress.  And I need Dems in my state legislature, where the Supreme Court has sent so many of the decisions that really affect our lives here.

    Parent

    Actually, it's a two-fer (none / 0) (#101)
    by RalphB on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:50:21 PM EST
    in that it could depress Dem turnout but it will almost certainly increase GOP turnout.

    Parent
    Obama would have many more (5.00 / 2) (#35)
    by Josey on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:02:20 PM EST
    of Hillary's 18M voters by now if he'd only once stood up and denounced the sexist attacks against her - and all women, his wife, his daughters, etc.
    That's where judgment, foresight come in - big picture, etc. - and also sadly reflects on Obama's character.

    Parent
    I've never gotten the impression he thought (5.00 / 3) (#42)
    by JavaCityPal on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:08:06 PM EST
    the sexism was inappropriate. Even when he demanded Michelle was off-bounds for criticism. That was the old Dudley Dooright method of saving the helpless damsil in distress. It was demeaning that Michelle was made to look like she wasn't strong enough to handle it, but she ate it up as though she enjoyed being protected by her man.

    Parent
    Actually (none / 0) (#127)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 08:05:17 PM EST
    it wasn't Obama's responsibility, it was Howard Dean's. The DNC absolutely failed in this regard. For all the yelling about how dean had a spine in 2004 the netroots had him absolutely wrong. He was absolutely spinless through the whole campaign. Since he's the head, it's no wonder the whole party is spineless.

    Parent
    Hey Boredmpa! (none / 0) (#107)
    by Jane in CA on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:52:37 PM EST
    Nice to "see" you -- how is that internship working out?

    Parent
    My team(UVA Wahoos) were stomped (5.00 / 2) (#24)
    by Joan in VA on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 06:56:44 PM EST
    into the turf exactly as I expected. However, the Hokies being upset was a bright spot today.

    I read a local blog today which stated that Terry Mac was chatting up the VA delegates at the convention about a possible gubernatorial run. It would be kinda of cool to have such an energetic Gov.

    interesting to hear (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by DandyTIger on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:11:59 PM EST
    not about my local team UVA getting stomped, but about Terry. That would be cool indeed. I'd vote for him.

    My team however, Stanford, stomped Oregon State. 36 - 28. Sweet.

    Parent

    If you don't mind Kaine (none / 0) (#64)
    by Joan in VA on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:24:25 PM EST
    being mocked, or you actually like that idea, Not Larry Sabato is an interesting blog about VA politics. The owner was a Hillarian until she suspended. notlarrysabato.typepad.com-I have never successfully mastered the link thingy.

    Parent
    cool, thanks, I'll check that out (none / 0) (#68)
    by DandyTIger on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:26:27 PM EST
    I often read a local one here, cvillenews. I'm DandyTiger over there too. Pretty low traffic, low posting site though.

    Parent
    LOL, just started reading it (none / 0) (#77)
    by DandyTIger on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:32:00 PM EST
    Oh, here's the link by the way. Man, they really don't like Kaine over there. Pretty funny. Well, I never warmed up to Kaine either. But hey, he was better than the repub guy. What an election that was. I was on the edge of my seat. So sweet.

    So links. Here's another attempt at how to do it. So you copy your link when viewing the page you want to link too. Then when you're typing in this comment window, you select a word or words. Then you click on the chain/link icon. It pops up a window where you can type your link. It already has some stuff in that window (http://... stuff). Just paste and your link will replace everything in that pop up window. Or if it doesn't do that properly, delete everything in that pop up window, then paste your link in there. Then hit OK. And then the word you selected is replaced by a bunch of stuff. Leave it as it is, and just continue typing the rest of your text.

    Parent

    I was monitoring the SBoE (none / 0) (#118)
    by Joan in VA on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:57:36 PM EST
    website all night. It was a nail-biter! And Kaine is definitely better than what the alternative was. I feel bad that he is heaped with abuse these days. Most don't seem to understand what kind of Dem can get elected here these days(Webb, anyone?) and how obstinate the Repubs are. Warner is no Dem god either as his speech proved but his path is strewn with flowers. We'll see how long that lasts.

    Thanks for the links stuff-I'll try again.

    Parent

    that is apparently the core (5.00 / 2) (#54)
    by DandyTIger on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:18:42 PM EST
    moral fiber of the democratic party from what the outside world can tell. They really might want to stop that cr*p. They did that stuff to Hillary and got away with it. So I guess they don't see the downside to the trash. All about character over at those sites.

    In all honesty, probably more than half of the (5.00 / 3) (#66)
    by Teresa on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:25:28 PM EST
    comments were telling the diarist to delete it. I looked at the recommenders and I only recognized a few names. I think the old timers were offended by it.

    Parent
    A couple of those diaries (5.00 / 2) (#116)
    by MKS on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:55:50 PM EST
    were deleted....and the big one was taken off the front page....

    Most do no like those diaries...

    I have added my two cents that the diaries are unfairly and recklessly subjecting a 16 year old to a lot of grief.

    Parent

    I hope she never finds out about it. (none / 0) (#128)
    by Maria Garcia on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 08:06:16 PM EST
    Yes, as with FISA, some of those posters (none / 0) (#202)
    by Cream City on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 10:16:29 PM EST
    could find it hard to get through airports after November 5, if it doesn't go their way.

    Parent
    My Fighting Irish had a good day too (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by DemForever on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:21:09 PM EST


    Would People Help Retire Hillary's Debt? (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by GeekLove08 on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:26:14 PM EST
    I created this video to ask people for help with retiring Hillary's Debt, which is still massive.

    "Thank You Sen. Clinton"

    I've created an Act Blue page to donate for this cause.

    Thanks.

    pretty suspicious, I suspect a scam (5.00 / 0) (#80)
    by DandyTIger on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:37:27 PM EST
    here since all you have to do is go to hillary's site to donate. I hope this post is deleted pronto.

    Parent
    Act Blue is legit. (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by Teresa on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:41:37 PM EST
    I thought she had to retire it before the official nomination, though?

    Parent
    I hope so (5.00 / 0) (#88)
    by DandyTIger on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:43:09 PM EST
    but if so, why not just say go to Hillary's site and donate. Going through a middle man Is a really bad idea for internet security.

    Parent
    Act Blue is totally legit. (5.00 / 2) (#98)
    by GeekLove08 on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:48:32 PM EST
    By donating via Act Blue,it is one way to keep track of donations to Hillary's Campaign since her website does not have a money meter.  There is no middle man as Act Blue does not take a commission.  They make their money from "tips" donated directly to them.

    Parent
    I think it is because it all comes from the (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by Teresa on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:51:26 PM EST
    net roots not just everyday people, maybe. I guess like a thank you from the blogs. They raise money for candidates all over the country.

    I know one of my friends on DK had a page for herself for John Edwards and I donated to it for her. The money really did go to the Edwards' campaign.

    Parent

    Yeah, when does it have to be retired by (5.00 / 2) (#94)
    by lilburro on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:46:34 PM EST
    and how close is she to retiring it?  

    I gave her some money on Thursday before Obama's speech...was I a day too late o_O

    Parent

    There is no deadline to pay back creditors. (5.00 / 3) (#113)
    by GeekLove08 on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:53:38 PM EST
    Her July Fundraising numbers still showed that there was about $20 million in debt.

    There is no deadline to pay back creditors. The only deadline applies to repaying her own loan (which she already said she was not interested in repaying).  
    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/10/us/politics/10clinton.html

    She loaned her campaign about $13 million.  So she needs to raise about $7 million.

    Parent

    For paying her debts or collecting donations? (none / 0) (#129)
    by JavaCityPal on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 08:06:59 PM EST
    See my response further down. (5.00 / 1) (#117)
    by GeekLove08 on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:56:44 PM EST
    The Act Blue link is to serve as a motivator similar to the money meter which the campaign stopped putting up.

    Find out about Act Blue
    http://www.actblue.com/

    Parent

    Geeklove is legit. (none / 0) (#122)
    by Joan in VA on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 08:00:55 PM EST
    So is ActBlue. The link may be against site rules, though.

    Parent
    I'm sorry if the link is against the rule (5.00 / 1) (#126)
    by GeekLove08 on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 08:04:12 PM EST
    I didn't realize it and I am sure it will be removed.

    Still, I hope people help retire the debt. Whether you use Act Blue or go directly on Hillary's website.  Thanks.

    Parent

    I don't know what the rules are, but... (5.00 / 2) (#133)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 08:12:47 PM EST
    I hope the ActBlue link to retire Hillary's campaign debt stays up. Thanks Geeklove.

    Parent
    Thank you for posting this (5.00 / 3) (#84)
    by bjorn on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:40:48 PM EST
    I gave a big chunk after her convention speech, which as AMAZING!  I loved the Harriet Tubman lines near the end, thanks for putting those in the video!  I hope everyone sends her something to help her out.

    Parent
    I knew they were jealous of Drudge (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by Joan in VA on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:31:41 PM EST
    but The National Enquirer, too?

    and apparently (none / 0) (#96)
    by kredwyn on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:47:18 PM EST
    they're OB/GYNs now also...

    Parent
    Calling Bill Frist... (none / 0) (#100)
    by Dr Molly on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:50:20 PM EST
    I think he's reviewing (5.00 / 1) (#121)
    by Redshoes on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:59:06 PM EST
    the video.

    Parent
    so this is what the new dem party (none / 0) (#188)
    by DandyTIger on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 09:22:37 PM EST
    has become. I'm so proud.

    Parent
    Message: Dems hate women. (none / 0) (#193)
    by echinopsia on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 09:33:41 PM EST
    that's the impression they give n/t (none / 0) (#196)
    by DandyTIger on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 09:44:07 PM EST
    I know. I didn't mean I'd seen no evidence of (5.00 / 2) (#81)
    by Teresa on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:38:28 PM EST
    sexism, I meant that I've seen no evidence that they have developed any class. Or learned any lessons.

    Even Paul Begala is precipitating. Someone needs to remind him of how he felt when the shoe was on the other foot. I was really disappointed in him.

    I think that... (5.00 / 2) (#83)
    by Jeannie on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:39:24 PM EST
    choosing Palin was a stroke of genius. And announcing it 12 hours after Obama's speech was another. Nobody on TV is talking about the Democratic convention at all, and you can bet the Sunday talk shows are not going to be about the Dems - but all about Sarah. It has suddenly made the stale old-guard Republicans into a revitalized, recharged INTERESTING party. They are suddenly excited and enthusiastic. People are going to tune in to their convention now - even Democrats.
    The sexism and mysogeny towards Palin from Obama's supporters and the talk about inexperience just highlights their poor judgement.  


    I agree, and much to the chagrin (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by zfran on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:44:28 PM EST
    of the Obama campaign, the media are still talking about Hillary!

    Parent
    Please!! Wouldn't this come under (5.00 / 2) (#85)
    by zfran on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:41:13 PM EST
    the title of it's a personal matter between the daughter and her family, if indeed it's true? And, some people who believe in abortions sometimes say what is to become of all those children born as unwanted and left. Gov. Palin and her husband are raising Trig and caring for him no matter what. I'd say, that is a good thing, if it's true and none of our business!!!

    yes, Hannity got a lot of mileage (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by Josey on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:47:18 PM EST
    yesterday by emphasizing - the Palin's knew the baby was a Downs, but HAD THE BABY ANYWAY!


    Parent
    Oh my (5.00 / 1) (#104)
    by hitchhiker on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:51:38 PM EST
    Sometimes in a quirky mood I go have a look at the formerly great site known as Dailykos.

    Like today . . . and the first diary that caught my eye ended with these lines:

    We have always relied on self-policing to insure quality.  Perhaps it's time to institute that self-policing, again?

    Dear heavens, yes!  It's poetic justice, I guess, because this particular diarist was one of the reasons I left that site.  See, she had posted one of those racist Clinton screeds and was getting oh so much love for it--in spite of the fact that it was utter and total nonsense.

    If anyone reading this is still hoping that the time for self-policing at dk is at hand . . . give it up.  That ship sailed.


    Did the usual suspects patrolling the (none / 0) (#109)
    by oculus on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:53:05 PM EST
    comments there go on vacation?  

    Parent
    That was George Bush's (5.00 / 1) (#106)
    by MKS on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:52:35 PM EST
    strategy in 2000.  He would not come out and say that he would try to appoint Justices who would overrule Roe, but was coy and said he wanted to avoid Justices who would "legislate from the bench."  The religious conservatives knew what he was talking about.

    The West is largely Libertarian.  Palin is not, and thus has sounded very evasive about abortion, not pro-choice and not Libertarian--but evasive....She became a Buchanan supporter in 1992 after he gave his culture wars speech at the Republican Convention....

    Palin calls herself a pro-lifer....There is no reason to disbelieve her....Pro-lifers want to reverse Roe, and the Republican platform has been changed to oppose even private stem cell research.  

    She did the opposite (5.00 / 3) (#132)
    by echinopsia on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 08:11:08 PM EST
    She said there were many more important issues to work on and that she did not intend to campaign or govern on abortion.

    I saw the quote earlier, can't find it now. Drat.

    Parent

    Same quote (5.00 / 1) (#158)
    by echinopsia on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 08:27:39 PM EST
    but I think I found the link elsewhere.

    I am so tired of all this fearmongering over R v W. It's hardly the bulwark protecting women it once was. And it's hardly the issue most women care about in this election - that would be the economy - and health care is number two.

    All too many clueless "progressives" think that reproductive choice is the ONLY thing women care about, and I am SO sick of having it held over my head. I can't even get pregnant. I'm worried about how I'm going to support myself if I can no longer work due to health problems.

    Parent

    I'm over it too (none / 0) (#181)
    by Dr Molly on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 08:55:36 PM EST
    After decades of men in power wielding Roe v. Wade like a club to manipulate women's votes, I just don't care anymore because I am so, so weary of it even being a discussion.

    I worked for clinic defense groups and pro-choice groups for years and then I realized that this issue is always going to be used as a weapon to keep women doing what men in power want them to. I'm over it. Let them overturn Roe v. Wade if they want to - at least we won't have to listen to a bunch of men discussing what we should and shouldn't do with our bodies anymore. And we'll take care of ourselves.

    Parent

    When the dems let the 5th (5.00 / 1) (#201)
    by Cream City on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 10:14:57 PM EST
    conservative on the Supreme Court, they lost that argument.  They must think that it takes two-thirds of the court to overturn Roe v. Wade.  Time for a civics lesson.

    Parent
    "Palin booed for mentioning ... (5.00 / 4) (#111)
    by lilburro on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:53:22 PM EST
    Hillary Clinton":

    CNN

    As she did at in her debut speech in Ohio yesterday, Palin appealed to the women in the crowd here in Pennsylvania with a political shout-out to Geraldine Ferraro, who preceded Palin as the first women to be tapped as a vice presidential candidate. The reference was met with polite applause.

    But in contrast with the mild reception that greeted the comment at the Ohio event, when Palin praised Clinton here for showing "determination and grace in her presidential campaign," the Alaska governor was met with a noisy mix of boos, groans and grumbles around the minor league ballpark where the "Road to the Convention Rally" was held.

    Oh, Republicans.  Some things never change.

    Obama supporters (2.00 / 0) (#141)
    by echinopsia on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 08:18:00 PM EST
    attended Hillary rallies and booed her. And Chelsea.

    How do we know it didn't happen this time?

    Parent

    Occam's razor? (5.00 / 1) (#150)
    by lilburro on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 08:24:02 PM EST
    I don't think Obama has that many moles in SW Pennsylvania.

    Parent
    Occam's razor (2.00 / 0) (#194)
    by echinopsia on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 09:35:30 PM EST
    They've done it before in areas where you would not think he had a lot of supporters.

    They are fervent in their CDS.

    Parent

    Gotta love the RNC (5.00 / 1) (#131)
    by DemForever on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 08:07:08 PM EST
    Alternating head lines include "McCain Chooses Sarah Palin" and "notready08.com"

    http://www.rnc.org/


    Sorry about the link (none / 0) (#136)
    by DemForever on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 08:15:21 PM EST
    I know better

    Parent
    Colbert King (5.00 / 2) (#134)
    by ColumbiaDuck on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 08:13:41 PM EST
    Just came across this.  King is a columnist who needs to STFU immediately about Hillary.  Especially given that he compared her to a white supremacist two weeks ago.

    He has less than zero credibility with this Clinton supporter.

    Infuriating - same tired formula: (5.00 / 1) (#162)
    by Dr Molly on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 08:30:03 PM EST
    1. Willfully misrepresent the issues women have with the primary as 'disappointment and bitterness'.

    2. Pretend you understand their voting motivations, which are 'shallow and spiteful'.

    3. Give them a condescending lecture about how horrible it will be if they don't vote for Obama.

    4. Paternalistically instruct them how to feel and how to vote.

    5. Insult their intelligence by pretending that you love and admire Hillary Clinton when you were trashing her just a few weeks ago.


    Parent
    Read some of the comments. Here is a line (5.00 / 2) (#171)
    by Teresa on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 08:41:17 PM EST
    from one giving Obama's resume

    Harvard Law School- Juris Doctor, president of Harvard Law Review (first year), Graduated Magna cum laude (note to U of Idaho grads: this means "really, really good" in a weird, foreign language)


    Parent
    priceless (5.00 / 2) (#189)
    by DandyTIger on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 09:25:09 PM EST
    You know, when people talk that way, no wonder regular folks cling to their guns when they hear them coming...

    Parent
    Interesting, isn't it, that a lot of this (5.00 / 3) (#173)
    by Anne on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 08:47:02 PM EST
    kind of drivel comes from men?  Or from those living in the media bubble, who think that just because they decreed that this was how and why the Clinton supporters were reacting means they actually know what they're talking about?

    I just have to shake my head; they just don't get it.  And it's not like it hasn't been explained to them.  Repeatedly.  Oh, you'll see them ask a Clinton supporter why they feel as they do, and when they get an answer, respond with the equivalent of, "no that can't be it - haven't you been paying attention to us?  I think you meant to say you're angry because..."

    It's absurd.

    For one thing, it isn't just women - and if we know that, why don't the Colbert Kings?  I'd send him an e-mail, but something tells me he's already gotten some and not paid the slightest bit of attention to them.

    The reality is that the refusal to accurately report on this issue is Krazy-glued to blind Obama support.  To admit that the Clinton supporters have valid reasons for feeling the way they do is to have to take an objective look not just at Obama's role in it, but the DNC's as well.  Much better to make us all look like hormonally hysterical, emotionally fragile women who, if we would just calm down, would be able to see the light, and what is really best for us.

    When the backlash comes, it isn't going to be pretty.

    Parent

    When the backlash comes, (5.00 / 1) (#195)
    by echinopsia on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 09:39:20 PM EST
    it's going to be Nov. 5. And for the next four years, Dem political consultants will make millions advising on how to appeal to women.

    If it takes four years of McCain, I'm good with that. Though it won't cancel out the 88 previous years in which we've been taken for granted.

    Parent

    Him and Eugene Robinson need to.... (5.00 / 2) (#166)
    by Maria Garcia on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 08:33:35 PM EST
    ...never say another word to Hillary Clinton supporters ever again.

    Parent
    seems to be uncharted territory for the U.S. -- (5.00 / 0) (#143)
    by Josey on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 08:20:07 PM EST
    but there is logic in questioning why taxpayers should continue pouring money into rebuilding New Orleans. I understand it's home - but even evacuees today were saying they weren't coming back.
    After floods during the 90s some small towns on a river moved elsewhere. But even closing the parts of New Orleans under sea level, a big city....iirc has never been done.
    Dunno - but I'm sure the opposition to taxpayers rebuilding NewO will be a topic of discussion again and probably negated by folks in Miami....and Florida.


    ...and here we go again (none / 0) (#184)
    by Josey on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 08:58:30 PM EST
    because iirc the rebuilt levees won't withstand a 5 hurricane.
    But with all the oil rigs in the gulf and business conducted via the gulf, why shouldn't the corporations assist in paying for the levee upgrades?

    Parent
    Waiting for the VP debate (5.00 / 1) (#147)
    by TimNCGuy on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 08:20:51 PM EST
    you just know that Palin will have some sort of line at the ready to address the "experience" question that is bound to be asked. I would suggest something like this "Well, if John dies while in office and I become president, I pledge tonight to name Joe Biden as my VP. Apparently that's all it took to shore up Obama's lack of foreign policy experience. So, it should work for me as well."

    Or, she could talk (3.00 / 2) (#163)
    by TimNCGuy on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 08:30:31 PM EST
    about her "executive" experience and ask whether the only experience that Obama may have had managing a budget would have been on that Chicago education project he headed up with William Ayers. that should shut t hem up for a while.

    Parent
    Good line! (none / 0) (#152)
    by zfran on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 08:25:01 PM EST
    Gustav (5.00 / 2) (#167)
    by Lou Grinzo on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 08:34:43 PM EST
    If you want to see some very detailed discussions of what's going on with Hurricane Gustav, with a strong emphasis on its impact on the US's oil and natural gas infrastructure, check out The Oil Drum (http://www.theoildrum.com).

    Bottom line: While a lot can happen over the next couple of days, it's looking more and more certain this will be a pretty bad event in both human and economic terms.

    (Just for the record, I'm not affiliated with that site, so I have nothing to gain from the recommendation.)

    Biden/Obama Palin/McCain stump (none / 0) (#5)
    by Grace on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 06:36:31 PM EST
    speeches on CNN.  I finally had to change channels.  Just too long and too boring.

    I tried to watch those (5.00 / 2) (#38)
    by DandyTIger on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:05:36 PM EST
    Watched the Palin stump. It was the same as the intro speech. Fine. She seems great. I like her. I listened to the dems. Biden went on and on about how great Obama is. He said something like his greatness and how he'll save us is because of his very being. Something like that. Basically, he's the ONE. Then Obama started with all the usual stuff. Drone, um, uh, aaaaand, etc. Really boring. The audience looked bored. Someone apparently feinted. Obama threw them a bottle of water and said they'd be fine. So either that was staged and he knew they'd be fine, or it wasn't and he didn't care and wanted to move on. And then more drone, blah blah, boring. And the funny thing is, I got so bored I just walked out and started doing other things and even forgot they were still talking. Funny.

    Parent
    I didn't want to say it but (none / 0) (#58)
    by Grace on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:20:57 PM EST
    that was where I switched channels:  Obama, after the woman fainted and he kept going on "Is there an EMT in the house?  Someone get her some water.  She'll be okay."  He's great with a script but talking off the cuff, he's really uninspiring.  He just droned, with all those long "aaaahs" thrown in.  

    Parent
    How come it's never a man that (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by zfran on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:28:15 PM EST
    faints?

    Parent
    No! They aren't pulling the fainting stuff again? (5.00 / 2) (#74)
    by kempis on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:30:38 PM EST
    That is so obviously staged. Now that Obama isn't running against Teh Evil Hillary, some enterprising reporter might actually try to interview some of these fainters.

    Not a good idea.

    Parent

    wouldn't that require journalism (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by DandyTIger on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:35:13 PM EST
    for something like an investigation and interviewing people. So then Obama is completely safe continuing to do that. No worries since we have no journalism in this country.

    Parent
    The Obama quotes from that particular story (none / 0) (#114)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:55:00 PM EST
    would date it back to a few months ago. I think it's been awhile since any women have fainted.

    Parent
    today, didn't you read the posts (none / 0) (#190)
    by DandyTIger on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 09:27:30 PM EST
    we watched the event today live on CNN, a woman fainted. Same old same old.

    Parent
    or less the same remarks for all the fainting episodes.

    Parent
    I tried (none / 0) (#140)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 08:17:39 PM EST
    to watch him when he stumped in PA during the primary. I had to cut it off because the verbal stumbling was so bad. It was getting on my nerves.

    Parent
    I was (5.00 / 1) (#138)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 08:15:45 PM EST
    watching their replies on the news tonight. I don't remember what McCain said and I couldn't understand what Obama said. I wonder is this how it's going to be until the election? McCain says something so completely forgettable while Obama talks in circles so much you don't know what he's saying?

    Parent
    Isn't it awful? (none / 0) (#179)
    by Grace on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 08:54:18 PM EST
    Maybe this is why we liked Hillary?  She gave interesting answers you could remember?  

    In Obama's speech today, I noticed his sentence pattern went something like this:  Word (long pause) drawn out Word (long pause) bunch of words all lumped together. (long pause)  

    Parent

    No question (none / 0) (#182)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 08:56:04 PM EST
    about it. He's a horrible speaker. One question can never be answered with a lot of ums and aws and less than a paragraph.

    Parent
    he's the great communicator (none / 0) (#192)
    by DandyTIger on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 09:29:16 PM EST
    what are you talking about.. lol. You know, ever since we've been hearing how good he is while I watch how horrible he is, I keep flashing back to Reagan. Everything old is new again.

    Parent
    Reagan (none / 0) (#198)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 10:02:33 PM EST
    wasn't this bad. I remember the general ditzyness of his responses but they were clear as to what he was saying. IIRC, he was always telling jokes. I don't think Obama does much of that.

    Parent
    Can someone tell me what the real truth on (none / 0) (#20)
    by Teresa on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 06:54:33 PM EST
    the bridge to nowhere is? I don't believe anything from the talking heads from either side after watching this last primary.

    The Bridge To Nowhere (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by flashman on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 06:57:39 PM EST
    was an example of wasteful govenment spending.  Usually, it's the Democrats that get accused of being big spenders, but this one was proposed by Stevens (R) of Alaska.

    As for the full details, someone with more time to research them will have to provide.

    Parent

    Young was involved... (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by kredwyn on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:02:06 PM EST
    also.

    Parent
    Palin would have been, at best, indifferent to it (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by andgarden on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 06:58:20 PM EST
    I know it was a hot issue outside of Alaska, but the locals are very protective of their pork.

    There's a reason why the Club for Growth attacked Don Young for earmarks in Florida, and not at home.

    Parent

    Do you know if she supported it? I hear that (none / 0) (#41)
    by Teresa on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:08:00 PM EST
    she lied in her speech but I don't know her position.

    You may have been out when she and McCain did their rally in Pa today. When she made her Hillary remarks, the crowd booed! lol, they didn't prep them properly to play up to the Hillary vote.

    Parent

    My guess is that, if she didn't (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by andgarden on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:11:25 PM EST
    support it, she almost certainly didn't oppose it. At best, she would have told a half-truth yesterday.

    The rally story is funny.

    Parent

    It was funny. They'll have to come up with (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by Teresa on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:19:09 PM EST
    something for Palin to say for the next time it happens. Like reminding them of what she went through as a woman candidate or something. It could backfire on them if they don't. It made me mad! They are so obvious in what they are doing.

    Parent
    yep, both sides can't help the Clinton hate (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by DandyTIger on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:23:34 PM EST
    it just oozes out of them both. But extra points for the Obama campaign for having stopped the booing after the Clinton's are mentioned. Clearly a bitter job of reeling in the troops.

    Parent
    I don't know as she opposed (5.00 / 2) (#49)
    by kredwyn on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:12:39 PM EST
    the bridge itself, but it sounded like she opposed taking federal earmark funds for it a la Stevens and Young cronyism.

    Parent
    She Supported It... (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by Brillo on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:30:05 PM EST
    When it was getting federal funding.  After the federal funding was cut and they couldn't get the state funding together, she came out against it.  Somehow she's actually trying to turn this around into looking like she was always against it or something.  

    By the way, most of the rest of her 'reforms' and 'maverickiness' have similar stories behind them.

    Parent

    Could have been (5.00 / 2) (#76)
    by echinopsia on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:31:51 PM EST
    Obama supporters booing. They did that at Hillary's rallies too.

    Parent
    I read that she stopped it (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by MichaelGale on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:48:29 PM EST
    but was criticized because she did not send the Federal money back.  Said she'd use it for other infrastructure.

    Parent
    I believe (none / 0) (#153)
    by ColumbiaDuck on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 08:25:42 PM EST
    That Stevens and Young proposed the earmark as part of the federal highway bill - tons of earmarks in that - but the Bridget to Nowhere was a big one.  (Young was heading the transpo committee in the House at the time, Stevens was chair of appropriations in the Senate.)

    anyway, Senator Coburn and some anti-earmark groups decided to go after it as a symbol of government waste.  Palin may or may not have been against it, not sure.  But at the end of the day what happened was that the exact same sum of money was given to Alaska but without stipulation that it be used for that particular bridge.  Palin decided to use it for other infrastructure needs after she couldn't get together enough money to pay for the whole thing.

    Parent

    You are the closest if my memory is rght (none / 0) (#156)
    by CoralGables on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 08:26:44 PM EST
    That is closest to the truth. When the PR came out against it, she said it would be best if they didn't build it but wanted to keep the money and spend it their own way. So I guess you could say, after the fact she was against the bridge but still wanted the pork.


    Parent
    I hear she's the one that stopped (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by DandyTIger on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:16:22 PM EST
    the bridge to nowhere. But I'm sure that's silly hyperbole. Someone will have to dig a bit deeper to find out. From the dems we'll hear she was for it before she was against it I'm sure. From the repubs we'll hear she was the reformer that stopped it. Who knows what the truth is. I'm sure we'll find out though.

    Parent
    An AP story on the Alaska bridge; date 9/22/07) (none / 0) (#130)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 08:07:01 PM EST
    LINK: Palin and the Bridge to Nowhere.

    I can't slog through it right now.

    Parent

    I can't tell for sure, but it seems she didn't (none / 0) (#137)
    by Teresa on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 08:15:29 PM EST
    support it:

    "We will continue to look for options for Ketchikan to allow better access to the island," the Republican governor said. "The concentration is not going to be on a $400 million bridge."

    That was written after the fact so it's hard to tell.

    Parent

    Palin said she told the government (none / 0) (#108)
    by Josey on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:53:01 PM EST
    Alaska didn't need the bridge and if they did, they'd build one (meaning without gov't help).
    Except, later I heard she kept the money. Wasn't it $50M?
    Alaska seems to be doing very well economically now.

    Parent
    FWIW, Palin and the Bridge via Wikipedia (none / 0) (#149)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 08:23:30 PM EST
    LINK:

    Palin initially expressed support for the Gravina Island Bridge project,[50] commonly known outside the state as the "Bridge to Nowhere." However, once it had become a nationwide symbol of wasteful earmark spending and some federal funding was lost, Palin cancelled the bridge because Alaska's congressional delegation was unable to prevent the state of Alaska from having to pay for part of the bridge's construction.[26][51] Alaska still kept the federal money, but she stated that Alaska should rely less on federal funding.[51][27]

    The original sources cited by Wikipedia should, hopefully, get the story right.

    Parent

    nice find, thanks (none / 0) (#197)
    by DandyTIger on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 09:55:56 PM EST
    of course wikipedia's entries are just written by anyone. So it's not necessarily true. But working through the sources and other checking should tell the story. Nice find though.

    Parent
    Thanks and yes, I know how Wikipedia works... (none / 0) (#204)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 12:42:30 AM EST
    that is why I said to check the original cited sources to determine whether Wikipedia's editorial narrative is credible.

    The info can usually be verified by cross-referencing a couple of sources on the same subject and making a common-sense determination as to whether the sources are independent and trust-worthy.  

    Parent

    according to the link above (Foxhole Atheist) (none / 0) (#151)
    by pukemoana on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 08:24:46 PM EST
    Alaska was entitled to keep the money for other infrastructure projects:
    Under mounting political pressure over pork projects, Congress stripped the earmark -- or stipulation -- that the money be used for the airport, but still sent the money to the state for any use it deemed appropriate.


    Parent
    yes, I wasn't implying (none / 0) (#178)
    by Josey on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 08:51:09 PM EST
    keeping the money was wrong - just that Alaska did.
    And Alaska doing well economically isn't related to them keeping the bridge money. lol

    Parent
    Biden is only a heartbeat away from the Presidency (none / 0) (#60)
    by ding7777 on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:23:25 PM EST


    Oh, I can see where this is going... (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by Grace on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:42:47 PM EST
    And if Biden becomes President, not only will he talk to our enemies, he'll talk their ears off!  He'll have that guy in Iran saying "Please, please go!  We'll do anything you want if you just leave and quit talking!  Anything!  We'll give up all our arms and weapons!  We'll give you 100 virgin brides!  We'll do anything if you'll just shut up!"  

    That's the problem...  isn't it?  ;-)  

    Parent

    LOL, he'll smile at them until they run away (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by DandyTIger on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:44:12 PM EST
    and hide in a cave. Please, no more teeth. You win. :-)

    Parent
    Yes, they'll set him down (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by Grace on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:51:42 PM EST
    on a mountain top in Afghanistan and he'll simply smile and the sun reflecting off his teeth will blind the Taliban and while they are wandering around blind, lost in the mountains, American troops will find Osama bin Laden and the war will end!  

    Parent
    LOL, OK, did a spit take that time n/t (none / 0) (#112)
    by DandyTIger on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:53:37 PM EST
    Maybe Biden is really (5.00 / 1) (#119)
    by Grace on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:58:12 PM EST
    "The One" and we just don't realize it?  ;-)


    Parent
    Are you kidding, the gleen and (none / 0) (#159)
    by zfran on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 08:28:54 PM EST
    reflection off his teeth will point to the cave Bin Laden is actually in...

    Parent
    Obama compares himself with Lincoln (1.00 / 1) (#115)
    by Josey on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:55:33 PM EST
    and Kennedy - but I hope that doesn't happen.


    Parent
    the sky is blue (none / 0) (#65)
    by DandyTIger on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:24:30 PM EST
    ... and your point is?

    Parent
    Someone please correct me if (none / 0) (#148)
    by zfran on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 08:23:29 PM EST
    I'm incorrect, but didn't all or most of McCain's ads showing Obama as a rock star emphasize not that he is inexperienced, but that he was "not ready to lead." That's a whole different theme then being inexperienced. Could Obama make the same sort of ads about Palin?

    Not if he's smart (5.00 / 1) (#191)
    by echinopsia on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 09:29:05 PM EST
    Seriously, Palin is kryptonite. After the sexism and double standards of the primary I and other women who would never vote R will defend her, and some may even be pushed over the line to vote for her. Not for McCain, for her.

    You have no idea how deeply the resentment runs among Hillary supporters and other women who have been watching. Do not even go there.

    Parent

    I was being rhetorical. I am one (none / 0) (#203)
    by zfran on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 10:53:28 PM EST
    of the disenfranchised, disillutioned Hillary supporters and dem supporter. I was making the point that John McCain, at least to my memory, never made Obama's inexperience the issue, only his rock star image and was he ready to lead, wherein all the hoopla was over Palin's inexperience which of course, prompted Obama's experience which is just where I believe McCain knew he was heading.

    Parent
    Most distressing info on KOS (none / 0) (#180)
    by befuddledvoter on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 08:55:08 PM EST
    I do not read that blog.  Just got a question as to whether or not Palin owns a dog.  Long story but I belong to a Rottweiler listserve and it came up there so I googled Palin and dog.  Well, that brought me to KOS for some reason.  It was on that link that I found a post about Palin.  Seems the rumor is that , so say the rumormongers.  Some there posted ojection to having that on the blog.  So, they conducted a poll.  Over 10K people responded and overwhelmingly voted that this was fair game and, in essence, highly relevant to her run as VP.  

    I was aghast. It is one thing to want Obama to win, but quite another thing to recklessly spread such rumors.    

    Re: Michigan v Utah (none / 0) (#206)
    by rhyta on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:58:05 PM EST
    I am a new member but long time lurker at Talk Left.
    While this is a bit late, I felt as a Utah fan some comment was needed.

    Sorry to ruin the debut of Michigan's new coach but Utah isn't a nobody as the post below hints at, we have had a good record against BCS teams

    2007
        Utah 44, UCLA 6
        Utah 44, Louisville 35
        2005
        Utah 27, Arizona 24
        Utah 38, Georgia Tech 10
        2004
        Utah 41, Texas A&M 21
        Utah 23, Arizona 6
        Utah 46, North Carolina 16
        Utah 35, Pittsburgh 7

    This last one was in the Fiesta Bowl and we have won 7 straight bowl games.

    Yes it wasn't a pretty win but we will take it

    Go UTES!

    Michigan (ranked 24 pre-season (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by oculus on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:02:28 PM EST
    in one poll), lost to Utah, which appears to be unranked by anyone nationally and, has lost its last 3 season openers.