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  • how does one (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by Klio on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 11:12:59 PM EST
    e:mail the front pagers?  

    [sorry to be so dim, but I haven't been able to figure it out yet]

    Did Barack seal the deal for anyone (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by Grace on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 11:15:24 PM EST
    tonight?  Anyone on the edge that decided that the Obama/Biden ticket was the one for them?  

    I'm on the edge but the speech didn't do it for me tonight.  

    I'm on the edge because I'm a Democrat.  I'm waiting for something to sell me on the Obama/Biden ticket.  

    I'll admit I like having Biden on the ticket but I'm not sure, exactly, how much an Obama administration would allow him to do.  

    So, I still wait...  

    I think the combination of Hillary, Bill and Al, (5.00 / 6) (#11)
    by Teresa on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 11:21:54 PM EST
    three politicians that matter to me, sealed it for me. Like Hillary asked, was I in it only for her? Like Al Gore reminded us, how different would the world be today had he not been cheated eight years ago (or more people realizing the difference between the two parties).

    Am I still angry? Very. The DNC, Dean, Pelosi, all those people, they can forget getting any help or respect from me. I want to punish them for not standing up when they should have during these primaries. But Obama is a Democrat, he supports what I support for the most part and he is right...John McCain doesn't get it. I don't want to look back in four years and feel guilty that I sat at home and allowed our country to go further down the drain.


    I'm with you on this (5.00 / 2) (#39)
    by 1040su on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 11:41:01 PM EST
    I wasn't even going to watch the convention.  But, I caved.  So I decided to only watch c-span & not give the networks any business.  Then I heard CNN had Carville & Begalia, so I caved & starting watching CNN.  Hillary's speech was truly inspirational to me & I've always loved listening to Bill - they softened me up some.  Obama's speech was good enough tonight that I've caved a little.  If it looks too close for comfort here in NY, I'll vote for him.  Otherwise, I'm planning to vote for McKinney.  McCain is not an option & like you, I don't want to look back in four years and feel guilty.  NY should be a comfortable margin for him though.

    So one speech (5.00 / 2) (#77)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:07:58 AM EST
    makes you forget about X months of campaigning?  You think he's suddenly had some kind of epiphany, do you?  Give me three months of this kind of campaigning and a sincere and abject apology for his misguided ways up until now, and then I might be won over.

    There's the problem. (5.00 / 4) (#91)
    by Cream City on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:17:13 AM EST
    There are only two months to go.  He has wasted three.

    OK, two months... (none / 0) (#206)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:34:34 AM EST
    No, it doesn't (none / 0) (#205)
    by 1040su on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:28:28 AM EST
    make me forget.  And if I start talking about it, the anger resurfaces & I'm once again back to not voting for him under any circumstances.  I have a couple of very good friends (one who was on the ground for Hillary in Texas & Pennsylvania) who are working on me also.  They will not lift a finger for him or contribute any $$ to him, but they are going to vote for him "because McCain is insane & we can't let him win no matter what."

    I don't know about an epiphany, but I'm hoping he is starting to get it.  I hope that Joe Biden has been a calming influence on him & took him aside and said look man, you gotta give the Clintons some props & be more partisan or we're going to lose - sort of the father figure rather than the hyperventilating 20 somethings.  I do firmly believe you can't beat Republicans at being Republicans.

    Another idea that has popped in to my head is that a certain group kept a wall between the Obamas & the Clintons.  You know, like a guy (sorry guys!) who makes sure his new wife hates the ex-wife so they don't get together & compare notes, but somehow they do & realize that each other aren't so bad & that he's the butt head :)


    I didn't get to watch Al Gore (5.00 / 3) (#41)
    by Grace on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 11:43:15 PM EST
    I take it he was good?  I missed him...  

    Very good. Maybe you can find a transcript. (5.00 / 2) (#54)
    by Teresa on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 11:52:01 PM EST
    He talked about the different world we would have if he had been President and about a third Bush term, etc. His delivery was pure Gore...a little stiff. I remember at the very end of his 2000 campaign when he just let loose and got emotional. I wish he'd campaigned the whole time that way.

    I'm always left with a dream unfulfilled. Gore and Hillary. Maybe Obama will win and be a pleasant surprise. Without huge expectations, we won't be as disappointed as his worshipful supporters, right?


    I voted for Al Gore. (5.00 / 5) (#70)
    by Grace on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:01:48 AM EST
    He's another politician I loved.  He should have won in 2000 -- he got Hillaried (or she got Gored).  

    At any rate, we don't always get what we want...



    I wanted Gore (none / 0) (#174)
    by weltec2 on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 01:24:58 AM EST
    in 2000, Gore in 2004, and Gore in 2008 anywhere on the ticket. Hillary announcing, "And Al, as my Vice President, will be implementing our environmental and related programs." The Clintons and Gore: our marginalized senior statespersons who just will not be completely marginalized.

    He was very moving (5.00 / 3) (#59)
    by rebrane on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 11:56:09 PM EST
    so much so that the crowd was cheering for ten solid minutes after he left the stage, and it took a Doobie Brother to bring them down.

    This was his "I told you so" speech, and he deserved it.


    The whole last eight years... (5.00 / 3) (#100)
    by OrangeFur on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:23:08 AM EST
    ... have been I-told-you-so moments for Al Gore, for Bill Clinton, and for Democrats generally.

    Very good (5.00 / 3) (#71)
    by Steve M on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:01:56 AM EST
    I'm actually watching the replay on C-SPAN right now.

    I'm really confused about why they didn't give him a more prominent speaking spot, though.  Maybe we just have too many rock stars in this party.


    No, we don't have enough (none / 0) (#134)
    by echinopsia on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:45:56 AM EST
    rock stars in this party. It's just that Obama chose to disinvite or marginalize those we do have. To make himself look better? Perhaps.

    Wes Clark (5.00 / 1) (#179)
    by weltec2 on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 01:33:43 AM EST
    he put on the stage with a line-up of other Generals and then wouldn't let him speak! How bazaar is that? ...as though Wes is just one more background person to the party instead of a senior spokesperson. That was really incredible. What a slap in the face.

    No, we don't have enough (none / 0) (#137)
    by echinopsia on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:46:17 AM EST
    rock stars in this party. It's just that Obama chose to disinvite or marginalize those we do have. To make himself look better? Perhaps.

    Because Gore is a recovering (none / 0) (#143)
    by Fabian on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:50:36 AM EST
    politician and no longer a 100% partisan, GOP-hatin' Democrat.

    If you truly are issues oriented, you have to become somewhat non-partisan.  That's why issues oriented voters can be both a party's base and the thorn in their side.


    Gore's speech (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by weltec2 on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:09:52 AM EST
    can be found here and here.

    Not Biden? (5.00 / 2) (#51)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 11:51:41 PM EST

    You've hit on something. Obama adopted the Clintons as his de facto running mates in this Convention.

    I am going to write a post about that tomorrow.


    Sure what that speech sounded like (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by andgarden on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 11:52:28 PM EST
    I await your post.

    No, not Biden. I knew it would come down to (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by Teresa on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 11:57:46 PM EST
    three people for me...the two Clintons and Obama. If they can be on the same team, so can I. I said in the other thread, I hope his campaign realizes, even if they don't admit it, the Clintons won them votes during this convention. I know of four for sure!

    You know I'm in a state that won't count, but I am sure there are many families like mine in states that do matter.

    Actually, Biden did help in one big way...he isn't Kaine!


    Biden is just NOT (5.00 / 1) (#140)
    by weltec2 on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:48:37 AM EST
    a moving speaker for me. He's not a bad speaker. He just simply does not get all my energies focused the way Bill, Hillary, and Al do.

    Why would he run against Clinton (none / 0) (#68)
    by rebrane on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:00:25 AM EST
    when he could run with Clinton, against Bush? That's what the country wants to see right now.

    It seems counterintuitive that he could win the Democratic primary by running away from the Clintons and win the general election by running with them, but you can't argue with success. I think it's because, while hardcore Democrats would've liked to see a more liberal President, everybody else was suitably impressed by Bill. That's why 80% of Americans say that he was an above-average President.


    But it was running against Clinton (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by Cream City on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:20:31 AM EST
    that did not succeed.  Obama did not win the primaries.  He won the super-delegates.  

    Not trying to pick old fights, but the only way to win is to deal with realities.  Mythmaking comes after you win.  If you win.


    Thank you (none / 0) (#95)
    by MichaelGale on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:19:36 AM EST
    I needed that and am so glad you said it.

    It was a good speech though.  Funny, I want to support this ticket. There are days that I say ok I will.  Then something outlandish happens and I change.

    I just hope for more of tonight and more specifics.


    Opportunity lost (none / 0) (#96)
    by zyx on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:19:55 AM EST
    I thought Obama's speech stank. Disjointed at first and boilerplate in the middle without any catchy stuff. Zzzz. As my dad says, no souls are saved after ten minutes. Not bad at the end, but if you weren't hooked in the first 20+ minutes, you weren't THERE at the end, you were in the kitchen getting a drink.

    Big Wasted Opportunity in that speech? Throwing out some specifics of how things went badly for people in the twelve years of Reagan and Bush the First. Deficits, more income inequality, more real taxes on the middle class, etc.--lots of material there, use some of it. THEN TALK ABOUT HOW THAT TURNED AROUND WHEN WE HAD EIGHT YEARS OF A DEMOCRATIC ADMINISTRATION.

    Obama isn't running against Clinton any more.

    --This would please a gazillion people in the stadium and in their homes.

    --It would make him look magnanimus, and like he IS real with the unity program.

    --It would make good STORY.

    --It's catchy. It's not boring boilerplate. Not now--we haven't been hearing this for eighteen months, "blah blah Bush Bush". I don't want to hear about Bush ever again. Nobody does. This would be fresh, believe me.

    But he can't do it. It would stick in his throat to do that. See the David Maraniss article in yesterday's WaPo.


    I thought it was boring after awhile too. (5.00 / 1) (#114)
    by Grace on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:32:18 AM EST
    I thought I was the only one.  

    I was expecting an historic speech!  A riveting speech!  Something that would make me sit up and pay attention!  

    And it felt like "more of the same."  

    That's why I was disappointed it had no take-away lines and didn't really say anything about MLK.  I wanted something you could grasp onto, something you could take away from the speech.  

    Obama didn't give that up!  


    The speech (5.00 / 1) (#181)
    by IzikLA on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 01:34:28 AM EST
    I thought it was very good.  Well delivered, respectful, hit the right notes, was more Democratic than we're used to hearing from him - these are all good things.

    The problem again is hit lack of humor.  He comes off stoic and presidential (good, yes) but his seriousness does not let people that are not already his followers truly relate to him.  Just my take.  I'm voting for him and I think he gives a good speech.  I liked both Clinton speeches better and even Biden's and Michelle's despite, or possibly because of, their heart and their faults.


    My sentiments exact. (5.00 / 1) (#151)
    by Firewalker on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:55:53 AM EST
    I feel the anger dissipating. For the first time in a long time, I was able to watch Obama tonight instead of having the same reaction that I have whenever I see Bush. I know Bush is so much worse, but they have both angered me for different reasons. The difference is I will never change my feelings toward Bush.

    Big step forward tonight (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by BrianJ on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 11:22:57 PM EST
    Now we have to see if his new emphasis lasts, or if he slips back into the "Chope, Hange, and Screw the Dems" mode that he had been in since late in the primary season.

    A lot of that speech tonight (5.00 / 2) (#93)
    by angie on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:18:04 AM EST
    came straight from Hillary's stump speech -- I guess he finally got worried that he "couldn't get all her voters."

    He may not have time (5.00 / 1) (#98)
    by nycstray on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:22:09 AM EST
    he's made some not so great decisions since the primaries have ended and doesn't have much of a chance to prove he means what he says through his current job in the Senate.

    Well.. (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by daria g on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 11:25:45 PM EST
    All the spectacle.. the staging, the fireworks, the music, the celebrities.. the benediction at the end.. it's so Republican.  I remember that (accurate) joke from Dubya about his base being the haves and the have-mores, and I guess now I feel like we're realigning so the Dems can be the party of the haves, the GOP the party of the have-mores, or maybe vice-versa depending on which way the political winds blow, and the rest of us left out in the cold.  That's just what I see happening.

    Not me (5.00 / 3) (#72)
    by waldenpond on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:02:38 AM EST
    I am the stereotype... small town, small town college, middle income, small house, etc.  I am a very practical boring person.  I am fed up with our politicians.   I am one of those that wants to actionable specific plans.  

    The militaristic dogwhistles (let's use more tax dollars to go get Bin Laden woohoo) the religion... the energy policy dogwhistles... nope, not buying it.  The party is moving in a direction I won't follow and is not pushing policies I want.  The platform is too broad and shallow.  I can't get a handle on one thing the party is committed to.


    The platform is very broad and very shallow (5.00 / 4) (#107)
    by Grace on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:26:01 AM EST
    While I may not live in a small town, I have small town values, for the most part.

    I worry that the Dem candidate is promising "a chicken in every pot" when that can't possibly be promised at this time.  

    Eight years ago, America was in a fairly strong position.  We've gone from that to a compromised position.  Bush's tax cuts hurt us, but what hurt us more was unbridled credit offered by the Federal Reserve.  They printed too much money and they gave it away too cheaply.  On top of that, there was no regulation to prevent jobs from moving offshore and no regulation to stop the issuance of HB1 visas -- so we have tons of jobs in this country that aren't available to plain old Americans.  

    Both Obama and McCain talk but I don't see the depth of knowledge I would like to see on the economy.  

    Economy is very important to me, even though I have hardly anything invested in US dollars.  


    On the edge? (none / 0) (#27)
    by gentlyweepingguitar on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 11:26:53 PM EST
    You're on the edge because you're trying to decide between 4 more years of the last 8 years, and? Because, why are you on the edge? Anything is better than what we've endured the last 8 years. Anything.

    You strike me (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by Steve M on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 11:48:03 PM EST
    as the sort of person who doesn't think very hard about how to be persuasive.  Or how not to be persuasive.

    Indeed (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 11:50:39 PM EST
    Not necessarily (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by Redshoes on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 11:48:22 PM EST
    I'm on record and onboard with the Democratic ticket but I fully understand why rather than going for the short sale you might vote for the Green Party or Nader as a message to the Democratic Party that you want a clear choice on matters that matter to you (civil liberties, consumer rights, a fair tax policy, etc.) so if 4 more years of pain has the potential to change the direction we're heading ----- which even under a Democrat is over the cliff -- it's a very rational and foresighted decision.  

    I just can't bring myself to burn the village (collateral damage) in order to save it.  

    But the idea that the noble experiment that is our republic, constitutional government, fails on my watch deeply saddens me.


    I'm in true blue California (none / 0) (#79)
    by Grace on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:09:37 AM EST
    so my spare vote would go to the Red candidate because I don't think voting for the others would get the message across.  

    But, to be honest, I haven't really decided yet.  I can still be sold on the Dem ticket.  More specifics on policy measures would help.  I'd also like to know what Joe Biden is going to do in the next administration (cuz I like and trust Joe).  

    Up until I vote, I can still be sold.  I'm not convinced on anyone this year -- which is really rare for me.  

    I do dislike the lack of experience Obama offers.  That's my #1 reason for not voting for him and it will take a lot to overcome that.  But maybe he'll anounce that Hillary would be his Secretary of State and then I'd be back to being a Dem once again.  :)  


    Sorry I don't remember (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by eleanora on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 11:17:56 PM EST
    who asked, but Maya Soetoro-Ng (Senator Obama's sister) spoke to the convention on Monday night. I listened to the first part, and she seemed like an awesome person, loved the part where she talked about their mom buying telescopes and telling stories.

    Ouch. (5.00 / 2) (#10)
    by zyx on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 11:21:10 PM EST
    Krauthammer's WaPo editorial. (I don't like Krauthammer, but I still read the editorial page, including him.)

    He says nobody is introducing Obama (like Kerry's war buddies last time) except his family in a personal way. Because nobody knows him.

    I've read a lot about him, and I think there is some truth to that--he doesn't have a lot of friends. It is kind of different.

    Senator Durbin introduced him (5.00 / 0) (#12)
    by DemForever on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 11:22:19 PM EST
    The RW is in panic mode

    Interesting poll by SUSA (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by andgarden on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 11:22:30 PM EST
    from Florida's 21st Congressional district:

    Today, it's Martinez 48%, Diaz-Balart 46%. The outcome is within the survey's 4.0 percentage point margin of sampling error and is not statistically significant. The contest is and should be described at this hour as effectively even.

    [. . .]

    Cubans living in the 21st District back Diaz-Balart by 42 points. Non-Cuban Hispanics back Martinez by 19 points. White voters, who are in the minority in this district, break 5:4 for Martinez. Half of voters in Florida 21 see the economy as the most important issue facing Congress. Voters focused on the economy break 4:3 Democrat. Diaz-Balart holds 84% of Republicans. Martinez holds 81% of Democrats. Independents break 3:2 for the Democrat. Moderates break 3:2 for the Democrat.

    Moreover, Obama and McCain are tied in the district 48/48. It went for Bush over Gore by almost 16 and Bush over Kerry by 14.

    This makes me wonder just how much of a lock McCain really has on Florida.

    I agree (5.00 / 0) (#45)
    by CoralGables on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 11:47:45 PM EST
    Although BTD feels Florida is not winnable I am less than certain of that. The most recent poll out today has Obama with a slight lead although I don't really buy that yet here

    The poll you show is from Miami-Dade, a county that leans Democrat but particular areas such as the one you mention that have been strongly republican in the past. As George Bush might say, I am beginning to see a tide turn.


    Well, as I understand it, the district (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by andgarden on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 11:51:54 PM EST
    this poll looks at has been pretty heavily Republican in the past, and that Cubans run the Republican primary there. But the Demographics tell the story: Obama is winning the white vote there. My guess would be because of South Florida Jews, but I don't know for sure.

    In any case, Obama's big problem is that he's going to be obliterated in N and NW FL. (AKA, the south. . .)


    True, but... (none / 0) (#82)
    by CoralGables on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:11:08 AM EST
    Dems are always obliterated in North Florida...luckily not much of the population actually lives there. Dade, Broward and Palm Beach can win an election in Florida. Broward (Ft Lauderdale) is most heavily in the Dem column. Dade with the beginning of a swing from the Latin vote to the Dems may be the statewide determinant.

    The Mason Dixon poll also looks like it underrepresented South Florida where Obama will get most of his popular vote strength.


    Of all the states where a Hillary-induced bounce (5.00 / 2) (#86)
    by andgarden on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:14:46 AM EST
    might happen, I think it would help the most in Florida.

    After the Republican convention, I am interested to see whether Ohio or Florida is closer in the polls.


    Definitely worth watching those. (none / 0) (#108)
    by Cream City on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:27:12 AM EST
    And Minnesota, if it's Pawlenty.

    And I really am surprised by the stability of the tie in Virginia.  It hasn't budged for weeks.  I wonder what it will take to make it move.  Lots of military there, so lots of McCain with POWs on TV?


    Yes (5.00 / 1) (#115)
    by dissenter on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:32:35 AM EST
    We will see. Obama made a gigantic error tonight. When he decided to blame Bush's failure to catch or kill bin Laden on McCain he insulted every single soldier in Afghanistan. I caught it but thought maybe it was just me. Then my brother called after the speech. He was going to vote for Obama but not after that. He was royally pissed. He spent 13 months hunting caves for terrorists in that hell hole.

    See what Obama and much of the left doesn't get is that when you slam a former decorated soldier, they all take it personally. They all have been looking for terrorists over there. Having failed to catch him isn't for lack of trying. People are killing themselves trying to find him. Maybe he should have shown some appreciation for that instead of trying to make a point in a very stupid way.

    Further, in that speech tonight he displayed absolutely NO understanding of what we are facing in Afghanistan. That doesn't sit well with those of us that have work there.


    "dissenter" = Republican (1.00 / 1) (#130)
    by andgarden on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:42:35 AM EST
    Actually NO (5.00 / 1) (#138)
    by dissenter on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:46:26 AM EST
    I've worked on three US presidential campaigns. All for democrats. I have been a dem my whole life. I have never even voted for a republican.

    I say what I say because I do have the war experience that you may not. And that is a fact. It matters to those of use who are running around Iraq and Afghanistan.

    I am not voting for McCain. I probably won't vote for Obama though because I am CONCERNED he doesn't know what he is doing when it comes to foreign policy.

    The fact is however, the military is NOT comfortable with McCain for the reasons I have been pointing out.


    Yes, you are indeed very "concerned" (1.00 / 1) (#142)
    by andgarden on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:49:36 AM EST
    Thanks for pointing that out.

    If You (5.00 / 1) (#145)
    by dissenter on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:51:17 AM EST
    had bullets and mortars flying at you, I bet you would be too.

    Why do you attack Republican voters? (5.00 / 1) (#163)
    by Prabhata on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 01:03:18 AM EST
    I don't understand that mentality.  It's the same mentality that Obama people have against those who supported Hillary.  A voter is like a customer, always right.

    Personally (5.00 / 2) (#184)
    by otherlisa on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 01:40:42 AM EST
    I have a huge beef with the Republican Party and with Republican voters, because they are primarily responsible for the last eight years of Bush's nightmare.

    But I find it more than a tad ironic for Obama supporters to call those who criticize him "Republicans" when Obama himself has gone out of his way to "reach across the aisle," to have Republicans nominate him, "no Blue, no Red, we're Americans!"

    I'm a Democrat. I don't like Obama because I haven't seen much evidence that he supports Democratic values (and, you know, that whole other laundry list of reasons I don't like him, which I will not repeat here).

    I haven't had a chance to watch the speech yet (I worked late) but it's going to take more than one speech to convince me to vote for him.

    And no, I won't be voting for McCain, no way, no how, no chance in hell.


    You are very, very young (none / 0) (#207)
    by Cream City on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:58:10 AM EST
    andgarden.  Dissenter = John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, right on through. . . .

    True dissenters have no party, no polls.  They have principles.  You will learn that.  Dissenters are the best of us.


    In virginia one of my question is: (none / 0) (#113)
    by andgarden on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:31:14 AM EST
    who wins the state west of Roanoke, and by how much. In other words, the 9th Congressional district. It's represented by Democrat Rick Boucher, but it voted for W in '04 and Hillary in the primary this year. It's. . .Appalachian.

    McCain, I think. That part of Va is just like (5.00 / 1) (#120)
    by Teresa on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:36:30 AM EST
    East Tn. Or like Shuler's North Carolina district. At least it was when I lived near the border there.

    Indeed, but by how much (none / 0) (#132)
    by andgarden on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:44:08 AM EST
    If Obama gets absolutely killed there, well. . . there aren't enough black people to make up for it.

    Well, it borders very Republican areas (none / 0) (#147)
    by Teresa on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:54:01 AM EST
    of TN and KY so it probably won't be close. He would just need high turnout in his areas. It's like here - I think they say if a Democrat can come out of East Tn only down by about 10% or so, you can make it up in the Nashville and Memphis areas. I think that if those two areas had turned out in the numbers they did for Kerry, Ford would have won the Senate seat here.

    With the attention Va is getting this year, I'd bet on huge turnout. I just don't know about the military vote. My niece (Army wife) swears they all worship McCain but I've read Obama gets a lot of donations from them. It will in interesting if we are up really late waiting on Va like we did with Webb. That was a fun night.


    The region is funny (5.00 / 1) (#154)
    by andgarden on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:59:17 AM EST
    because, while the people are similar, their historical political allegiances are not. After the civil war, the people there were solidly Republican. But later WV and W VA shifted to the Democrats, while eastern TN did not. Who knows why.

    In any case, Bill Clinton won Boucher's district twice, even while losing Virginia as a whole. Mark Warner won it in 2001, and will win it again this year.


    I didn't realize Bill Clinton won that district. (none / 0) (#171)
    by Teresa on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 01:16:17 AM EST
    Maybe the part toward West Va makes the difference? I know the part of Tn that borders Va is the most Republican area of Tn.

    I wish I knew why my third of the state is so red. It may just be the demographics of the state.

    We also have different accents than the rest of the state. It's strange but you can always tell when someone is from the Nashville or Memphis area by their accent. We have a much stronger accent...kind of hillbilly.


    Yup, he did (none / 0) (#172)
    by andgarden on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 01:21:37 AM EST
    '92, '96.

    Anyway, isn't the Memphis accent essentially a Mississippi accent? Tennessee is the state where the south and Appalachia collide. It can make for some bizarre political coalitions.


    Yes, very Mississippi. The Nashville accent (none / 0) (#176)
    by Teresa on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 01:29:16 AM EST
    is the prettiest. Dignified southern. We're a weird state. West Tn and East Tn don't even claim each other. We want to give them to Mississippi and they want to give us to North Carolina. It even carries over to sports.

    Plus, we are in a different time zone from the rest of the state. When I lived in upper East Tn, we could get to Pa almost as fast as Memphis. I think it's a little over 500 miles from one end to the other.


    It's funny (5.00 / 1) (#182)
    by andgarden on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 01:35:19 AM EST
    If you draw a diagonal line between Scranton and Huntsville Alabama, you get that super-scary region known as. . .Appalachia!!!

    Yep. When I used to go to New Jersey (none / 0) (#187)
    by Teresa on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 01:50:07 AM EST
    a lot, we'd drive through parts of PA that reminded me of here and then get to the Philly area and it was like a different place. I guess your state is divided, too, just larger. I also found New Jersey strange. My ex-husband was from near NYC but he had an aunt that lived in the northern part of the state. It was like night and day. I guess most states have divisions of some sort.

    I'm gonna hit the sack so I can get up to McCain's big news tomorrow. I wonder if they can keep it a secret until noon? It's like they want to one up Obama since his surprise didn't work. It's funny that they are all going to be together when he names one of them (or so I read).


    You're not kidding, it would help a lot (none / 0) (#119)
    by shoephone on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:35:14 AM EST
    Doesn't FL have 27 electoral votes?

    (I'm still skeptical of Obama's chances there...)


    I think it has... (5.00 / 2) (#125)
    by OrangeFur on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:38:19 AM EST
    ... only 13.5.

    Iron Chef: Farmer's Market Challenge! (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by nycstray on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 11:23:00 PM EST
    on now. I was spacing this week and never got to sit down and watch it. They went to our Union Sq market for inspiration. Kinda cracks me up as they are dealing with a variety of ingredients that look like what I bring home from my weekly CSA. Fun stuff, lol!~

    I'll be canning all weekend, with lots of cooking involved. Have 10lbs of green beans and 20lbs of tomatoes showing up tomorrow along with a boatload of corn and fresh seafood. And who knows what I will be picking up on Saturday at the CSA, lol!~ Thankfully, my "5th burner" showed up yesterday, so I can use that as a dedicated canning station. My slow cooker will be in use along with the stove, grill and convection oven. We've been blessed with cool weather the last couple weeks, so slaving over a hot stove has been much more pleasant :)

    I've never canned, but I've watched (none / 0) (#30)
    by andgarden on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 11:28:02 PM EST
    Alton Brown do it on TV!

    I'll tell you one problem with this weather: it gets too cold at night for the AC to stay on, and I like to sleep COLD.


    I just started this summer (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by nycstray on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 11:42:14 PM EST
    I was freezing before (have a couple of "extra" freezers), but wanted to try it this year for some veggies and prepared things like fruit toppings and soups. I'm going to straight up freeze some corn and can some creamed corn. Tomatoes, same. Been making some sauces and canning those along with crushed and whole ones, but will also freeze some. The canning is going to help down the road with things like soup, which I never remember to thaw before I find myself hungry for lunch ;) I have more protein sources this year, so I would rather use the freezer space for that and bulk beans and grains. Plus I always need to have space monthly for about 50lbs of pet meats, lol!~

    I've been keeping my AC on low/sleep cycle at night as allergy season came early, so no open windows at night right now. Plus I'm on the top floor, so the apt does warm up a bit. I can suck up the Con Ed costs easier than feeling like crap and having my poor eyes a mess every morning (which makes working hard!). The days have just been amazing strolling with the dog :)


    What do you do with the seafood? (none / 0) (#60)
    by Grace on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 11:56:12 PM EST
    Depends ;) (none / 0) (#85)
    by nycstray on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:12:06 AM EST
    I usually just vac seal the fish in single serving portions so I can thaw depending on meal size. Same with shrimp so far. Clams, some I vac seal in shell, some I steam straight up and freeze, others I steam in a wine/herb broth and freeze broth and clams sep but together. Scallops I do the same as the other seafood. I generally freeze anything based on how I cook. I chop and freeze veggies in various ways so if I need chopped veggies for a recipe, I have them already chopped. I grate some for breads, stir fry and soups etc. I also freeze in recipe portions to make it easy. I need to read up on freezing and canning chowder type soups. I know I froze some clam, leek, celery root chowder last year, but I ended up eating it all pretty quick so I don't know how it holds up for a long freeze. It doesn't take long to make, so just freezing the ingredients is prob easier. That's the soup I use the wine steamed clams in. Very versatile :)

    I need to look into/test freezing grilled seafood and such. I usually grill enough to save in the fridge for salads during the week,but want to see how it holds up to freezing. Some things that they say are fine, I don't love after they've been frozen.


    You're really Rachel Ray, aren't you? :) (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by Teresa on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:23:39 AM EST
    Well, she's not my fav, but :) (5.00 / 1) (#122)
    by nycstray on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:36:39 AM EST
    I give her props on the efficient cooking methods and have picked up tips :) I like some of the other ones that have a simpler cooking style. Alice Waters is a good role model for me. I don't use as much fresh as her in the winter (why all the canning/freezing), but hope to when I move to CA next spring :)

    I always loved cooking and grew up with a mom who did who also raised our produce, baked our breads etc. I find putzing around the kitchen relaxing and I'm thoroughly enjoying the local food lifestyle :)


    I'm a really bad cook. (5.00 / 1) (#146)
    by Grace on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:51:53 AM EST
    The first three meals I ever cooked that were supposed to "impress" were totally disasters -- one burned on the top of the stove, another one exploded in the oven, and one failed to cook at all.  They were all awful.  I'll never be Rachel Ray or Julia Child.  I do best whipping up something like "Tuna Salad Sandwiches" featuring tuna salad from the grocery store's deli case.  

    I do like seafood but I don't like it with freezer burn.  How do you prevent freezer burn?    


    Avoiding freezer burn is about air and the item (5.00 / 1) (#169)
    by nycstray on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 01:10:15 AM EST
    being frozen. For proteins, I've had good luck with vac freezing or just making sure to get all the air out of the bag. If I end up with freezer burn items cause I messed up, I make pet food  ;)

    The internet really helps when trying to learn some of this stuff, along with cable teevee. It gives you a chance to research at leisure and work it into your life and sched at your own pace. Also gives you a chance to research chefs and their books, cooking styles etc so you can learn at your own pace and style. I really like the simple food methods that highlight the food items. After all, I'm getting them straight from the farm, etc, so might as well enjoy their exceptional goodness!


    I am going to write this down (none / 0) (#105)
    by MichaelGale on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:25:38 AM EST
    about what you do with seafood. Thanks I would love to do that.  I love seafood.  I work alot and have strange hours and sure could eat better doing some of what you suggested.  

    I no longer cook.:-) I appear to love work more than food.


    Cool! :) (5.00 / 1) (#141)
    by nycstray on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:49:21 AM EST
    I work at home, but that doesn't always give me the freedom to spend more time cooking, so I try and make it easy even when I'm on deadline. I got a Griddler about a year and a half ago and that made my life SO easy! It's great for fish and I also use it a lot for other proteins. I usually keep a salad base in the fridge and can add hot or chilled grilled fish and meats along with any thing like tomatoes that I wouldn't cut up early,  with a simple vinaigrette. Who knew that a grilled grassfed burger patty on a salad with a balsamic vinaigrette would be so darn good! Total prep/cook time = 10 minutes! If you have grilled seafood in the fridge because you cooked double? About 3-4 minutes!

    I set aside cooking days and always make enough to have some leftovers in the fridge and some frozen meals. Comes in darn handy and there's no question about what's in your food :)


    Her father was a wealthy man wasn't he? (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by Teresa on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 11:23:58 PM EST
    Be nice.

    like her being an anthropologist (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by progrocks on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 11:47:17 PM EST
    that itself implies higher educational achievement

    Not all PhDs are rich (5.00 / 0) (#48)
    by rebrane on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 11:49:42 PM EST
    Not by a long shot.

    When I finally (5.00 / 1) (#127)
    by Fabian on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:41:36 AM EST
    looked up Obama's Momma in wikipedia, I was really surprised and amazed at what I found.  Here was a woman who didn't meekly conform to the acceptable roles at the time.  She parted ways from Obama's father rather quickly.  She married and divorced.  She raised her kids, got more than one degree, pursued an unusual career and didn't seem to need anyone else's approval for her life choices.

    Her life seemed to be more interesting and more colorful than either Barack Obama or his father.  It seems obvious that if she had stayed dutifully married to his father that Barack's life and hers would have turned out very differently and probably for the worse.  


    No you buy food with foodstamps (5.00 / 0) (#26)
    by DemForever on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 11:26:43 PM EST
    You buy educational things by saving and scrimping

    Also (5.00 / 2) (#28)
    by lentinel on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 11:27:28 PM EST
    I found his only reference to the abortion issue to be squarely nowhere.
    All he could say was that everyone should work to diminish the rate of unwanted pregnancies. That's not going to do much good for a woman who chooses to have an abortion and finds that she has legal roadblocks placed in front of her.

    I agree. Al Gore made a strong (5.00 / 4) (#34)
    by oculus on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 11:29:52 PM EST
    statement supporting a woman's right to choose.  Obama didn't.  

    Thanks. Thought maybe I had missed (5.00 / 2) (#66)
    by Cream City on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:00:12 AM EST
    something.  Well, maybe I did -- I missed what I needed to hear, something to counter all the statements so far.

    Frankly, this line tonight is 'way too ambiguous again.  I define that as the sort of line that I can hear from the fundies.  Heck, Huckabee could have said this.  (And I think he did.)


    A solid speech... (5.00 / 2) (#29)
    by Jackson Hunter on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 11:27:29 PM EST
    I loved the shout outs to the Clintons and the defense of Bill Clinton (perhaps Obama finally figured out that to keep crapping on the most popular and successful Dem Presidents was a skosh stupid.)  I thought the early attacks went a little flat but the later attacks on McCain were stronger and more memorable.  (I understand your defense of "eight is enough" BTD, but there is hokey and then there is being downright silly, and I think that attack falls in the latter camp.)

    Hell, the pundits on CNN aren't drinking Kool-aid, they're shooting it straight into their genitalia.  I guess it's nice for once our side gets that kinda treatment, but Good God, it is ugly and venal and won't convince a soul.  And Wolf mentioning Barack's race every two seconds is not only damaging, but stupid.  If this election comes down to Obama's race, then we will have the shelf life of a joint at a Phish concert electorally.  At least I don't have to feel bad about not having MSNBO, as CNN is cornering the market on Obama love.

    Again, solid speech, even quite good, but it wasn't notably better than Kerry's or Gore's or Clinton or Dukakis', so I wish CNN would just STFU because they are not helping us with this drivel they're spewing.

    I do feel better about Sen. Obama tonight, and now will probably vote for him (although in WA that shouldn't matter, Barack should win here by 6, that's what Kerry did) but my differences with the DNC and especially the vermin like Dean and Brazille are irreconcilable.  They had better hope their man wins, because they will be banished to the badlands if they choke on what should have been an easy victory.  And I'll be there with the Nelson "Ha Ha" when they beg for water.  :)


    Maya (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by eleanora on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 11:28:49 PM EST
    is Senator Obama's half-sister. Their mom wasn't on food stamps when she was little. I don't think it's right to attack their mom for having been poor at different times in her life.

    How is this not DLC? (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by AlSmith on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 11:28:58 PM EST

    Was that or was that not a DLC speech?

    Just so we all understand what we are talking about here.

    Weird things happening on Palin site (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by Pianobuff on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 11:30:56 PM EST
    On the grassroots Palin for VP site, a mystery poster has been accurately leaking for the better part of the day what the press is reporting about an hour later.  Seems to think it's definitely not Romney or Pawlenty and has some confidence it's a female.

    Wow, didn't know there was an active (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by nycstray on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 11:46:55 PM EST
    effort to recruit her. Interesting.

    I think McCain may go "different". If Obama hadn't picked Biden, I think he may have been safer and played the experience card for all it was worth. Should be interesting to see which way he plays :)


    Do you know the name of the site? (none / 0) (#92)
    by Teresa on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:17:49 AM EST
    I can't see McCain taking a risk on her or Pawlenty (sp?). The leaks seems to say Pawlenty but I still think it's Romney. I can't see the other two debating Biden very well. I guess a VP debate isn't the deciding factor but that would be risky. It would be fun to watch though.

    It has been a long day (5.00 / 2) (#61)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 11:56:43 PM EST
    My son had his foot surgery.  Neither one of his feet has a talus now but his feet will likely be plantar for his lifetime and probably the best foot ortho in the United States did it today in Birmingham.  It is never easy getting Tricare on board though for the bestest.  It is easier though now since every doctor the military has worth a saltlick is exhausted and living in Iraq or Afghanistan at the moment.  Haven't seen anything political in two days and so what, family and health is much more important.  Just got back to the hotel and turn on the tube and a bunch of repubs are on Larry King talking about how Dubya inherited an economy headed for recession, Ben Stein is sitting there listening to this with a straight face.  I thought he was supposed to have a brain that is rumored to function.  What did I do to deserve this bull$h*t today?  Poor poor widdle Dubya, the man who has made everyday of my life as a soldier's wife and a special needs child's mother a struggle and sometimes a hell.

    Hope (5.00 / 3) (#83)
    by eleanora on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:11:43 AM EST
    your son recovers quickly! Orthopedic surgery is always such a struggle, because you can't do much but lay around and wait to get better. My mom loves her Tricare coverage, but they are a challenge to get jump-started into action.

    If you missed the convention, Bill Clinton, Al Gore, and Obama's acceptance speech were great, but avoid the roll call footage if you want to stay positive. Arrgh about Larry King promoting GOP lies again, seems like the Rs have been getting even bolder lately.


    Best of everything to you and yours. (5.00 / 2) (#94)
    by oculus on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:19:14 AM EST
    Ben Stein is obsessed w/the Obama is a Chicago pol. meme.

    I noticed that (5.00 / 1) (#202)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 08:14:11 AM EST
    Ben didn't say anything to contradict the silliness of the other "experts" but he did say Chicago machine politician about 50 times till I fell asleep ;)  My husband stayed with our son last night after we got him calmed from his wake up.  It was a rough first day, his back lengthening usually goes much smoother.  The ortho's surgery list grew from the early a.m. to almost nightfall and we got kicked from 1st in line to 4th as smaller little guys and girls needed his help.  There is no mistaking competence when you see it, even after 8 yrs of not seeing much of it.  The doctor went from surgery to waiting room, surgery to waiting room in a smooth even motion while nurses and everyone else struggled just a bit to keep up with the flow.  We had babies born without hips in socket, teenagers with metal plates on healed femurs and two little clubfoot boys both wearing Auburn colored casts......that's about half of what the doc dealt with yesterday.  College football finds its way even into the surgeries here and we did not meet the other family at all until afterwards and seems that both boys requested Auburn casts.  Dr. Killian said Auburn casts are free, we'll see when we get the bill :)  Back to the hospital for my shifts, take notes for me please on highlights I miss.

    The video that was shown before the speech (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by andgarden on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 11:58:19 PM EST
    is here, apparently

    Supposedly directed b the guy who did An Inconvenient Truth.

    I suspect it's the weeper (5.00 / 2) (#116)
    by Redshoes on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:33:52 AM EST
    she kevetching about Clinton's baggage.

    It's odd that we place so little... (5.00 / 1) (#117)
    by OrangeFur on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:34:21 AM EST
    ... emphasis on some qualifications for president. Neither Obama or McCain has really shown in any way that they're ready to run--as in administer and manage--the government and the country. Now in some ways that's not their fault, as there aren't many jobs that are similar to the presidency, but it's still striking. For whatever reason, we see the presidency not as a manager's job, but in terms of inspiration and generalities.

    Maybe that's okay. As has been pointed out, the country is not a corporation, and we're not looking for a CEO. On the other hand, managing the country and the government is much harder than being a CEO, and requires a superset of the skills a CEO needs.

    If you work for or own stock in a Fortune 100 company, and the board was choosing between Obama and McCain as the company's next leader, how much confidence would you have in the company's future?

    In review.... (5.00 / 2) (#133)
    by Oje on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:45:35 AM EST
    Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, and Al Gore articulated the meaning of being a Democrat during the convention. They each know how to speak for party, not personality, and how to do it presidentially. Tonight, for the first time, I saw Barack Obama stepping up to that role. I can see the Clintons-Gore-Obama as the spokespersons for the Democracy, equality, and American values over the next 20 years. More than others, these three spoke with presidential partisanship.

    In the past few months, my biggest concern has been with the surburbanite Obamacans I met in my own state, the new Democrats in my party precinct, the progressive poseurs (former Republicans and Iraq War advocates) on our A-list blogs, and the party hacks at work in the DNC. They did not reflect Democratic values  - not with principle and certainly not consistently (the rules became teh Roolz). Now, though, I think that the folks Obama brought into the party for the first time may have learned what it is to be a Democrat. Granted, Obama did nothing during the primaries that led me to think he had the sensibility to recognize the perniciousness of sexism in our party.  At the least, from his speech, I anticipate that Obama will attempt to remake these new voters into Democrats, and not remake Democrats in the image of Obamacans.

    However, there is much work to be done with the misogynists and faux progressives who hold positions of power over the discourse of our party, our media, and - especially - our A-list blogs. Hopefully, talkleft won't go in he direction that it signaled this morning. The bloggers formerly known as A-listers do not have the moral and intellectual honesty to recognize their complicity in the CDS-sexism of the primary season. They are architects of a new left authoritarianism - a new consensus politics of conformity - as crude as that sounds.

    For me, this is how the Democratic convention connects with the site's drama this morning. The levers of change in the party are with the dissenters and the resisters (PUMAs, etc.). The leverage is over Obama's moral dignity and Democratic sensibility, not the party leaders or the blogosphere. If talkleft really wants to invigorate our Democratic discourse with original or thoughtful dissent, then talkleft needs to reference more often the emerging voices like Anglachel and others who articulate insightful criticism about the Democratic party that no longer exists in the former A-list sites like TPM, dailykos, Eschaton, and (sadly) Hullabaloo.

    A vital discourse will be found in an engagement with the dissent of the new voices arising during the primary (and talkleft's astute commenters). The tired and old discourse - the harmful political discourse - really lies with the easy prey: the propaganda and ideology of sites like TPM, dailykos, and Eschaton. If talkleft has become stale, unoriginal, and unDemocratic, it is because its posters chose to engage the orthodoxy that now reigns supreme on the sites it regards as its old friends.

    Oje, I agree almost entirely... (5.00 / 1) (#156)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:59:58 AM EST
    But, it REALLY worries me that Obama, himself, hasn't acted like a Democrat on some of his recent policy positions; and he didn't start to sound like a Democrat until tonight.

    If he talks the talk for the next two months, and gets elected, will he walk the walk for the next 4-8 years?

    Or will he govern in the manner of the overly compliant, neo-Republican Democratic Congress? If so, it will be a failed Presidency and the real GOP will come back in 2012 for another long stint, a la Reagan/Bush.

    What are the options?


    Ugh. (5.00 / 1) (#153)
    by Firewalker on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:58:59 AM EST

    Tempted (5.00 / 1) (#194)
    by Fabian on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 02:28:00 AM EST
    to start an oral s*x thread in response.

    I never can understand how people get so fixated on people's private parts and private lives.  Plus they conveniently overlook the fact that what happened really was a witch hunt, complete with mobs and torches.  How many people's lives could stand up to that kind of scrutiny?


    I just wish (4.40 / 5) (#2)
    by echinopsia on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 11:13:16 PM EST
    I could feel suitably elated about the first AA nominee for president.

    I wish I didn't know what I know about how he got the nomination.

    And that's all I'm going to say.

    I'm elated (5.00 / 0) (#5)
    by Grace on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 11:17:28 PM EST
    I just wish MLK got more credit.  MLK was truly a great person and tonight should have honored him but I didn't really see that.  

    My answer to the 2 of you. (5.00 / 0) (#14)
    by gentlyweepingguitar on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 11:22:36 PM EST
    #1 Darlin', it's all about looking toward the future, not the past. Was Obama an AA member? I never heard that before. But trust me, the guy is cured now, cuz if anyone ever had a reason to drink, he had one tonight, out there, in front of 80,000 people, plus live on World Wide TV. But he wasn't drunk, he was stone cold sober. If it were me, II would have slung back a few glasses of chardonnay. I don't have that kind of confidence.

    And how did he get the nomination? I'd like to know what you know. I voted for him.

    #2 Everyone knows today is the 45th anniversary of Martin Luther King's speech. We're not stupid.


    Assuming you're obtuse (4.00 / 4) (#38)
    by echinopsia on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 11:35:49 PM EST
    (and the evidence makes it plain that you are)

    AA means African American, not Alcoholics Anonymous.

    How he got the nomination is by 1.) cheating in the caucuses and 2.) having it handed to him by the DNC. Don't make me go over this yet again.

    Someone else gave me that "it's in the past" argument today. My reply? The holocaust, slavery, women's status as chattel, the genocide of Native Americans and any number of evil crimes are also in the past. That does not mean we should forget they ever happened. It means we should remember them to make sure they don't happen again.


    It is my hope that the issues you stated are permanently held within our hearts. We know. These issues shaped us into our hopes and beliefs, today. There are only 24 hours in a day. These issues do not have to be mentioned every time we meet. Yes, let's be careful to monitor that they do not happen, again, but time is precious. Let's talk about the present and the future. For our children.

    No, let's talk about (4.00 / 3) (#57)
    by echinopsia on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 11:55:26 PM EST
    how the current nominee and my former party used fraud and deceit to deny the will of Democratic voters.

    For our children, if you like. But for the truth, for everyone.


    I'm into truth (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by gentlyweepingguitar on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:00:13 AM EST
    Prove it!

    You thought I couldn't? (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by echinopsia on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:10:02 AM EST
    I gotta tell you, echinopsia, (5.00 / 0) (#201)
    by zfran on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 07:42:52 AM EST
    I cried watching what you posted. Don't want to re-hash, but I am a Tx 2-step voter and I, too, saw and experience what these people did in the video. I re-lived it all again and I thank you because it reinforces what I already knew.

    Here's a ruth from Martin Luther King. Jr. (4.25 / 4) (#87)
    by Cream City on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:15:01 AM EST
    He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it.  He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it.

    For once, do think about that, and in the context of the caucuses and primaries and the DNC, before replying here.


    Wait a minute! (3.66 / 3) (#103)
    by gentlyweepingguitar on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:24:27 AM EST
    I have been given a choice between Obama and McCain. Hillary is no longer a viable option. I have to choose between Obama and McCain.

    This is the way it is. Right here. Right now.

    If I were forced to assign "evil" to one candidate, that candidate would have to be McCain. That assignment of "evil" would be based upon McCain's support of Abu Ghraib and all the innocent people killed in Iraq, and the United States Military that was denied adequate protection and support because there wasn't enough money because the oil companies needed the money more, according to McCain.


    Of all the things (5.00 / 1) (#110)
    by Steve M on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:29:38 AM EST
    that you could possibly criticize John McCain for, you choose to claim that he supported Abu Ghraib?  I don't think the evidence will bear that one out.

    Pay attention. (4.00 / 3) (#111)
    by echinopsia on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:30:31 AM EST
    We're talking about how we wish we could support the Democratic nominee, but we can't because he and the DNC are corrupt.

    "But John McCain is worse" is not a relevant argument in this debate.


    Oh, it is. Because you have 2 choices. Obama or McCain.

    No we don't have 2 choices (5.00 / 1) (#150)
    by nycstray on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:55:47 AM EST
    we can vote 3rd party (I agree with many Green Party platform issues), stay home, vote Nadar or write in.

    The longer we think we only have 2 parties, the longer we only have 2 dominating parties and lack of choice.


    The 3rd Party Vote Ralph Nader (5.00 / 1) (#180)
    by gentlyweepingguitar on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 01:33:48 AM EST
    Is what got us in this mess to begin with.

    No. Not true. (5.00 / 3) (#186)
    by nycstray on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 01:45:55 AM EST
    And remember, this is America. We get to vote for who we want. Our votes are ours. If we just fall in line every time, we will never get away from the 2 party system and the machines that control them. We need to strive for better. Didn't Obama say as much tonight? Isn't that what his campaign is about? Grassroots? The people etc? Or does that only apply if we give up our freedom and fall in line with one of the "Big Two"?

    I liked Hillary, but now that she's not in the running, I need to go with the platform that is closest to my values, not the one I'm "told" to go with. Especially if I don't think the candidate is invested that platform. Sheepism got us to where we are today. Nothing more, nothing less, imo.


    This is America (5.00 / 1) (#188)
    by gentlyweepingguitar on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 01:57:18 AM EST
    Vote for whomever you choose to vote. This is your right and privilege. For me, tonight was all about remembering why I'm a Democrat. I am a Democrat for all the reasons Obama stated, tonight. If you don't agree, so be it. Go vote. I hope there are not too many of you. I hope your vote doesn't turn into a vote for McCain. I hope Obama wins. I do.

    Remember, the other night when Hillary said something like, "Were you voting for me or were you voting for the issues?"

    Do some soul searching. Please. Cuz I don't believe Hillary and Obama are so very far apart.


    For many of us, they are (5.00 / 2) (#191)
    by nycstray on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 02:15:59 AM EST
    very far apart. Hillary seems to have a deep commitment to the issues, Obama? Not so much perhaps. Hillary has a track record of working hard for the issues she believes in, Obama? Not so much. And I could go on, but one main sticking point is trust. Obama has no record on that in a positive way. He does have a serious history of not really looking like a Dem in the recent past. Too willing to cave, not fight. I would rather put my vote behind a party of similar values that looks like it has fight, or write in a candidate that I know would fight for me. I don't think Hillary would disagree with my POV. Honestly, if they flipped the ticket, I might be more inclined to hold my nose and vote for it. I'm not totally down with Biden, but I feel at least he has a track record and experience and it could be a give and take vote.

    I also have serious issues with the party and how this went down. Which I am no longer a part of. You don't need to be part of the religious right, which Obama is courting, to know right from wrong.


    Maybe you weren't listening. Hillary said she was voting for Obama. Hillary asked all her supporters to vote for him, too. So did Bill. Maybe you weren't listening during those times.

    We can vote 3rd party (none / 0) (#190)
    by gentlyweepingguitar on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 02:13:21 AM EST
    Already been done. 3rd party voters aren't strong enough to have a voice. Only add and subtract votes from the Dems and Repubs. Votes wasted. Got stuck with George Bush. Please, don't allow another 4 years of the same.

    OK, you've just proven (3.00 / 2) (#152)
    by echinopsia on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:56:29 AM EST
    that you are too stupid to live.

    This blog is not kind to willfully stupid people, and you will soon be gone.



    Weep not for the children (4.00 / 3) (#69)
    by Redshoes on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:01:08 AM EST
    ... there's a running joke in our family -- "the children" "what about the children" (must be said with great drama).    

    Really, trotting out kids is like referencing Hitler, and warrants a 5 point deduction from the judges.


    Your family? (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by gentlyweepingguitar on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:08:27 AM EST
    My family is very different than yours. In my family, the children are everything. Everything we do is about moving our children forward.
    Has nuthin' to do with Hitler. Nuthin'. Besides, Hitler was all about killing off children who didn't match the genetic code of his preferred. In my family, trotting out the kids is joy. LIke, look what we did. Aren't they precious? What can we do to ensure that everyone gets along? That everyone respects one another?

    I am noiw taking bets (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by echinopsia on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:11:52 AM EST
    on how soon this clown gets banned.

    Just a matter of time (none / 0) (#89)
    by Redshoes on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:15:07 AM EST
    Yikes!! (5.00 / 2) (#149)
    by befuddledvoter on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:54:44 AM EST
    Everyone is important,not just children.  I get pretty tired of hearing about the "children," as if nothing else matters or should even factor into the equation.  Further, you actually let a child decide for whom you would vote?  You know there is an age requirement to vote and that is for a very good reason.

    Not sure who you are or why you are here.  Perplexing is an understatement.  However, to not know just how close this race was and how the Rulz Committee hand delivered the nomination to Obama is unbelievable. You say you voted for Obama in the primary and that is all that matters.  What about the 18+ million voters who voted for Hillary Clinton?  I guess they just don't matter to you.  Afterall, it is all about the "children."  


    Well, hey (5.00 / 1) (#160)
    by janarchy on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 01:02:16 AM EST
    both Clare McCaskill and Caroline Kennedy both said their kids were the reason they were voting for Obama so, you know, it's the in thing to do.
    Then again, that seems to be a big trend in general -- adults letting their kids make all the decisions and run their lives without ever saying 'no' because they might be considered mean.

    Interesting Comment (5.00 / 1) (#175)
    by gentlyweepingguitar on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 01:28:20 AM EST
    "I get pretty tired of hearing about the "children," as if nothing else matters or should even factor into the equation. "

    Everything else matters. It does. You've pointed out to me that I've made a personal choice to try to make the world a better place for those who follow me. I guess it's because I have a child. I see beyond me. I could never be happy if my child wasn't happy. I believe it is my responsibility to make this world a safer, better place for my child.

    If you want to suck everything up in this world and not leave adequate resources behind for my child, I guess this is your right.

    "Further, you actually let a child decide for whom you would vote?"

    No, I didn't let the child decide. I decided. I wasn't sure. I couldn't decipher the difference. I met this child, and I wanted a bright future for him. I started listening carefully to what he had to say. Comparing Hillary and Obama. Hillary was old Washington. More of the same, I decided. Obama was Illinois. And Harvard Law Review. I thought he could speak for me. And that kid.

    "Not sure who you are or why you are here.  Perplexing is an understatement.  However, to not know just how close this race was and how the Rulz Committee hand delivered the nomination to Obama is unbelievable."

    I know how close this race was. I really didn't care. As I stated previously, I couldn't decipher that much difference between the candidates. I couldn't.

    I decided not to pay that much attention. I kind of gave up. After those voting machines in Ohio. But Obama gave me hope. He did. Hillary was like "I'll do the best for you that I can, under the circumstances," but Obama was like change. Something new.

    Yeah, I know, I'm taking a risk. But now the choice is between Obama and McCain. I'm going to go with Obama. Shake up the status quo. You know what I mean?


    I worked at a children's hospital (5.00 / 1) (#199)
    by Fabian on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 02:45:02 AM EST
    It pretty much cured me of the "But think of the children!" mentality.  Most of that is just pushing ye olde guilt button.

    The big thing that puts kids at risk is poverty.  And how do you get poor families?  Lack of education and lack of contraception that leads people to have kids too young, too poor, too unprepared.  The age of the mother when she had her first child is an excellent predictor of her family's economic status.

    In order to "save the children", first you must educate and empower women.  Women do better, kids do better.  Simple.  Works in developing countries and industrial nations.  Proven.

    So anyone who wants to keep women down, deny them reproductive power - they hurt women, they hurt children.  This should be a mantra for any progressive: When women benefit, children benefit.  When you lift women up, you lift children up.


    I do international development (5.00 / 1) (#200)
    by dissenter on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 02:47:13 AM EST
    You are right on every count.

    I voted for Obama in my primary. I did. I voted for him because I witnessed first hand the excitement he brought about in children. He brought them hope.

    I don't know about cheating in caucuses. I don't like caucuses. I much prefer individual voting, electronically, with machines manufactured by non-partisan manufacturers.

    Having it handed to him by the DNC? Again, I voted for him in my primary. I did. I couldn't decipher much difference between him and Hillary, it didn't matter much to me who won. They both seemed to be about the same things. It was the children who brought me to Obama's side.


    When did you switch to Barack? (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:15:44 AM EST
    You were an Edwards supporter, as of your comment on 4/17/07:

    I support Edwards because he is intelligent, quick thinking, strong, decisive, and he doesn't come with all that embarrassing baggage that Republicans love to spend their billions on making attack dog commercials.

    BTW, sorry that Edwards did, in fact, come with "all that embarrassing baggage" after all.


    When did you switch to Barack? (none / 0) (#109)
    by gentlyweepingguitar on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:29:01 AM EST
    When I met a little boy who walked back and forth along side the fence at his school carrying a sign supporting Obama during his lunch hour.

    I know. Edwards did come with all that embarrassing baggage.

    I got fooled again. But maybe, not this time with Obama?

    One can only hope. I still have hope.


    So hard (5.00 / 1) (#118)
    by dissenter on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:34:51 AM EST
    not to touch this one but I am going to be good.

    and dominating the discussion with circular arguments, please give it a rest.

    New poster? If so, comment limits ;) (5.00 / 1) (#126)
    by nycstray on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:39:13 AM EST
    Trying to censor me? (5.00 / 1) (#131)
    by gentlyweepingguitar on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:43:23 AM EST

    New posters are limited to (none / 0) (#139)
    by shoephone on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:48:14 AM EST
    ten comments per day. Really. You can go over it with Jeralyn tomorrow.

    Ten comments per day for new posters? (none / 0) (#144)
    by gentlyweepingguitar on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:51:08 AM EST
    I'm not a new poster.

    Apologies. Should have checked (5.00 / 1) (#157)
    by nycstray on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 01:00:18 AM EST
    your history. This is the first time I have seen a flood of responses from you, and there has been a pattern of new posters showing up on blogs to stifle and disrupt.

    You've made 15 comments in this thread alone (none / 0) (#159)
    by shoephone on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 01:01:20 AM EST
    Nearly all of them "chattering".

    You're really not doing yourself any favors tonight.


    Favors? (none / 0) (#166)
    by gentlyweepingguitar on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 01:06:01 AM EST
    I should be thinking about doing myself favors? Obama spoke tonight and rather than expressing your thoughts about what he had to say, you're counting up how many times I posted?

    I know, I know, Obama said we are supposed to respect our fellow citizens, but it's really hard for me to summon up any reason to respect you and anything you have to say.

    Where is your head at?


    You obviously need a break. (none / 0) (#168)
    by shoephone on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 01:09:46 AM EST
    Nope (5.00 / 2) (#135)
    by waldenpond on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:46:06 AM EST
    sadly, no.  sigh.

    And you will console your (4.25 / 4) (#76)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:04:58 AM EST
    children how when they discover he's betrayed them?

    Please.  If you are unaware of what went on in the caucuses, I'd have to call you a "low-information voter," also if you can discern no difference between him and Hillary.

    Look it up, and then come back and have a reasonable informed and intelligent discussion.

    Sorry, but personally I have no patience with this.  This is the kind of obliviousness that brought us George W. Bush.


    This exchange is classic (5.00 / 2) (#73)
    by MichaelGale on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:02:43 AM EST
    One the very best that I have read in the entire campaign.

    See how those acronyms lead to confusion? (none / 0) (#32)
    by DemForever on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 11:28:51 PM EST
    Having studied A LOT about MLK (5.00 / 4) (#15)
    by Eleanor A on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 11:22:53 PM EST
    I'm not at all sure he would have gone along with how things unrolled this year.  And that's all I'M going to say.

    Why is that all you're going to say? (5.00 / 0) (#53)
    by gentlyweepingguitar on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 11:51:57 PM EST
    Good God! Has Obama left a string of affairs behind him, too? Yet to be revealed by Republicans? I hope not! I can't take anymore affairs!

    I think MLK would be very pleased.


    MLK would have been appalled. (3.50 / 2) (#63)
    by echinopsia on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 11:58:05 PM EST
    MLK would have been appalled? (5.00 / 0) (#74)
    by gentlyweepingguitar on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:02:43 AM EST
    How do you know this? What facts are you basing your opinion on?

    How do you knoiw MLK would have been pleased? (none / 0) (#106)
    by echinopsia on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:25:50 AM EST
    How Do I know MLK Would Have Been Pleased? (5.00 / 1) (#189)
    by gentlyweepingguitar on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 02:04:09 AM EST
    Cuz tonight Obama pretty much stated all men are created equal. I think MLK would have liked that.

    What about women? (5.00 / 0) (#192)
    by nycstray on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 02:16:53 AM EST
    Women too! (5.00 / 1) (#196)
    by gentlyweepingguitar on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 02:34:36 AM EST
    Shame on me. Women too. From this day forward, as long as I live, I will state, "All men and women are created equal."

    My mistake. I apolgize.


    Right (none / 0) (#193)
    by dissenter on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 02:22:15 AM EST
    After her pastor and husband:)

    This is totally off topic but I am desperate. Do you have any idea how to put in a horizontal line across the page in Word 2007? I am losing my mind. BTW, I enjoy your cooking tips.


    I suck at any Micro programs (none / 0) (#197)
    by nycstray on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 02:34:43 AM EST
    Adobe, 'nother story :)

    Glad you like the cooking tips!  :)


    What's Scary (none / 0) (#198)
    by dissenter on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 02:43:04 AM EST
    Is that I can develop a website but I can't figure out how to make a line in Office 2007! That is totally absurd lol.

    I printed off some of your stuff for my mom today. She is always trying to figure out how to freeze things so that they taste good when they are defrosted. She is a Food Network freak:) I like HGTV a lot.

    Ok, back to this stupid document. Why do I always start these things in the middle of the night!


    So Big Tent, what are your thoughts? (none / 0) (#3)
    by gentlyweepingguitar on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 11:13:52 PM EST
    What did you mean, not in the way that I think? I was the one who posted It's all about me! ME! ME! ME! And you.

    Nuclear power; carry-over from last page? (none / 0) (#9)
    by Hozzie on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 11:20:31 PM EST
    For the record, nobody needs reminding about Three Mile Island and Chernobyl.

    The thing is, almost all large-scale industrial endeavours have a risk of catastrophe. Example:
    Bhopal, 1984. Sheer negligence, 40 tonnes of methyl isocyanate, 3,000 dead. We don't clamour for an end to the manufacture of pesticides. Why not?

    I'm all for nuclear power (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by andgarden on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 11:23:27 PM EST
    I know that pisses off many liberals.

    I'm not totally against it. I drive past one (5.00 / 2) (#23)
    by Teresa on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 11:25:38 PM EST
    on my way to work. Will they kick us out of the party now?

    Well, it's a big tent, so they can STFU. (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by andgarden on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 11:30:22 PM EST
    I'm tending that way. (none / 0) (#123)
    by OrangeFur on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:36:43 AM EST
    Obviously nuclear power has its issues, but so does everything else. And it wouldn't be completely unprecedented. France seems to get most of its electricity from nuclear power, doesn't it?

    We are STILL trying to get Hanford cleaned up (none / 0) (#128)
    by shoephone on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:41:41 AM EST
    here in WA. What a blanking disaster.

    Nuclear is a no-go for me. And there ain't no such thing as truly "clean" coal so I wish Obama would stop that.


    Hanford? (none / 0) (#155)
    by zyx on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:59:24 AM EST
    Give it 10,000 years or so, and it should be mostly better.

    Ha! That was Classic. (none / 0) (#164)
    by shoephone on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 01:03:43 AM EST
    And, unfortunately, so close to the truth.

    I clamour for the end of (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by nycstray on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 11:24:43 PM EST
    manufactured pesticides along with a few other things!  {grin}

    McCain wants to build 45 nuciear power plants (none / 0) (#22)
    by DemForever on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 11:25:15 PM EST
    in the next 20 years.

    Obama said he would not take them off the table if the disposal issues can be addressed (which is extremely unlikely)


    Illinois has most nuclear plants of any state (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:03:58 AM EST
    Barack has no choice but to endorse nuclear power; he represents the state of Illinois which is the fifth largest producer of nuclear power in the world.

    Link: some info about nuclear power.


    bhopal (none / 0) (#158)
    by 18anapple2 on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 01:00:45 AM EST
    countless still suffering and no real compensation to speak off because the Indian Goverment at the time sold out . it seems the defenseless are stiffed all over the world...democracy...what happened to government for, of, and by the people

    horncheggit, That's not pleasant either. (none / 0) (#102)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:24:10 AM EST

    The HuffPo front page is funny tonight... (none / 0) (#136)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:46:09 AM EST
    There are three photos of the Invesco Field proceedings and none of them show the background columns and the stage extension.

    Here is McCain campaign's (none / 0) (#148)
    by oculus on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:54:24 AM EST
    statement re Obama's acceptance speech:

    Tonight, Americans witnessed a misleading speech that was so fundamentally at odds with the meager record of Barack Obama. When the temple comes down, the fireworks end, and the words are over, the facts remain: Senator Obama still has no record of bipartisanship, still opposes offshore drilling, still voted to raise taxes on those making just $42,000 per year, and still voted against funds for American troops in harm's way. The fact remains: Barack Obama is still not ready to be President.

    Salon.com has a piece up about McCain campaign's comments on the colunade, and a picture of Obama in a toga.

    Actually, though, I thought the set and fireworks were fine.  Music--not so much.


    It's interesting (5.00 / 1) (#170)
    by Steve M on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 01:14:29 AM EST
    Supposedly they were just going to run that "classy" ad of congratulations tonight, and then get back to campaigning tomorrow.  In fact, that's what the ad expressly says.

    Seems to me that they revealed their hand a little bit by jumping the gun to issue this statement.  I think they know it was a powerful speech.


    I think the clock struke midnight and McCain (none / 0) (#173)
    by Teresa on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 01:21:59 AM EST
    turned back into a pumpkin. (Did I get that story right? You're the one with the little girl.)

    Mccain, the flip-flopper. (none / 0) (#177)
    by oculus on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 01:29:42 AM EST
    If that's all McCain can come up with (none / 0) (#165)
    by shoephone on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 01:05:21 AM EST
    He will be toast on November 5th.

    doesn't sound like McCain will (none / 0) (#167)
    by oculus on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 01:07:25 AM EST
    be hedging his bets on off-shore drilling anytime soon.

    So how does the new rule work? (none / 0) (#178)
    by Johannes on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 01:31:58 AM EST
    I'm counting many more that 4 gratuitous, anti-Obama posts by some individuals right on this thread - let alone the day.

    All the great speeches... (none / 0) (#204)
    by NotThatStupid on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 08:38:34 AM EST
    ... containing all the lofty dreams mean nothing if you don't think the speaker believes what he is saying or will carry out the things he promises.

    When I think of the difference between Senator Obama's words and his actions:

    • his 'historic' speech regarding his opposition to the Iraq war versus his action in continuing to fund it.

    • his initial denials of knowledge regarding the nature of his (now former) pastor's diatribes in the church which he attended for two decades and to which he donated thousands of dollars. No serious thinker could believe he had never heard, or heard about, those sermons.

    • his statement that he would accept public campaign financing versus his rejection of it.

    • his statement that he would oppose, even filibuster, the FISA bill versus his vote for it.

    ...etc., etc., etc.

    Sorry, Senator Obama, words don't sway me, but actions do. Your actions have shown me that I cannot trust your words.