It's Up To Obama Now

Hillary Clinton's speech had a big effect in the Gallup Tracker, as Obama/Biden bounced from a 1 point lead to a 5 point lead. With Bill Clinton's speech last night, expect even more of a bounce.

Bill and Hillary Clinton have put in Obama's hands the ability to solidify the support of Hillary supporters. They did their job. Now it is up to Obama. IF he succeeds, he will win the election comfortably.

By Big Tent Democrat, speaking for me only

< Holding Our Democratic Party Accountable | GOP VP Thread >
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    If the bounce really is due to HillBill speeches.. (5.00 / 4) (#2)
    by pmj6 on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 02:39:39 PM EST
    ...it's proof positive what this country wants is hard-nosed partisanship in pursuit of progressive liberal policies. I doubt Obama can deliver the same sort of speech the Clintons did, he may be a lot of things but a partisan Democrat is not one of them.

    We'll critique his speech tonight (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 02:40:30 PM EST
    to see.

    Yeah, I'm really curious... (5.00 / 2) (#14)
    by pmj6 on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 02:43:01 PM EST
    ...if he can credibly reinvent himself in the populist mold.

    Hey, he played basketball today (none / 0) (#67)
    by oculus on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 03:34:31 PM EST
    but at the Denver Athletic Club.  Get out there in the park with the kids!

    those photo ops (none / 0) (#107)
    by ccpup on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 04:35:09 PM EST
    of him joyously playing basketball with local kids would have been worth an extra point or two in the Polls, for sure.

    Who's running his campaign anyway? Mr. Tin Ear and his half-witted brother Tone Deaf?


    Biden's was partisan too. (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by catfish on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 03:10:27 PM EST
    I suffer ODS, love love love Hillary, and I think Biden's may have been the best speech of the convention. Not just the speech itself but him, his delivery, his family coming on stage afterward. It reminded me of a Jimmy Stewart movie.

    That speech sold Obama and really sold the Democrats to the voters.


    Obama (3.66 / 3) (#7)
    by DCDemocrat on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 02:41:44 PM EST
    will deliver the speech Obama can deliver, and that seems to have been enough for enough people to put him where he is.  I think there is something going on here that we may not understand.

    They were called (5.00 / 2) (#95)
    by BrianJ on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 04:13:53 PM EST
    Caucuses and Superdelegates, and they won't be available again.

    It worked during the primaries. (none / 0) (#27)
    by TheRealFrank on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 02:57:16 PM EST
    But so far it has not been working in the GE campaign. It's a different ballgame.

    Or perhaps... (none / 0) (#31)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 02:59:32 PM EST
    ...people like to see the party pulling together behind the nominee--or at least an illusion of unity.  

    I think this ignores (5.00 / 7) (#39)
    by Democratic Cat on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 03:07:56 PM EST
    the content of both Clintons' speeches, but especially Hillary's. Her speech wasn't about pulling together behind the nominee for the sake of unity or some other touchy-feely ideal. It was "do you care about this laundry list of Democratic issues? If so, vote for the Democrat who believes in them and will fight for them." As I said the other night, IMO it was as much about throwing down the gauntlet to Sen. Obama to adopt and strongly defend partisan Democratic policy positions as it was a plea to her supporters to get on board.

    To the extent that her supporters have responded and are responsible for the bounce, I suspect the bounce will go away or be tempered if Sen. Obama does not deliver.


    Yes, yes, yes!! N/T (none / 0) (#46)
    by befuddledvoter on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 03:13:48 PM EST
    Relative progressive liberal (none / 0) (#62)
    by jondee on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 03:30:10 PM EST
    policies, as in, progressive liberal only when juxtaposed to the social darwinist, hyper-imperialist loons that have commandeered the Republican Party.

    Ralph is the only genuine progressive with any significant following in this country. Most of the Clintons progressivism exists in a vividly-colored=by-wishful-thinking mythic realm.


    There are indications (5.00 / 8) (#8)
    by Steve M on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 02:41:50 PM EST
    that Obama intends to give what I would call a "Hillary speech," and talk about the specifics of his policies and how he intends to help people, rather than making this into Version 2.0 of his 2004 convention speech.

    If true, I think that is just what the doctor ordered.  If the middle class watches this speech and hears specifics about how Obama's policies will improve their lives, the Republicans can chortle all they want about how opulent the staging was or whatever.

    Those who have faith in Obama to do the right thing are already on board.  The remaining challenge is to close the deal with those who still have questions.  If the Republicans call you substance-free, you know what, prove them wrong!  This is what the undecided voters are still waiting to hear.

    I really, really hope so. (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by TheRealFrank on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 02:46:49 PM EST
    I needs to back away from the HopeChange(tm) rhetoric, go more into specifics, and slap the Republicans around.

    Obama's campaign has been weak over the last few months, I hope he can kickstart it again by giving a good speech.

    The McCain attacks have been effective, although I did see both Letterman and Leno make fun of how they take every little thing and then immediately make an attack ad out of it. The McCain campaign might have overdone it.


    Tonight's theme is (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by BernieO on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 03:33:13 PM EST
    "Change You Can Believe In" so don't get your hopes up. These guys don't seem to learn. I was shocked to see the set for tonight. I had figured after all the criticism of his Berlin trip and no bounce in the numbers that they would have toned down the grandiosity. No such luck.

    OT, I noticed that Al Gore is speaking tonight but before 7. What's with that? Is he too big of a reminder of the Clinton legacy?


    The theme.... (none / 0) (#72)
    by p lukasiak on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 03:44:44 PM EST
    ...can be worked into any number of different formats.  For instance, instead of his usual hopey-changy schtick, he could just crib the party platform, and after each issue, say something like "This is change that the Democratic Party stands for.  It is what I stand for -- and you can believe in it, because the Democratic Party will get it DONE!"

    I think that by committing himelf to a bunch of party platform positions, and completely avoiding the post-partisan unity stuff, he has a lot better chance of being "believed" -- if the speech is about what he wants, and what he will do, its not going to be effective.


    Jeez O Pete! When did Obama (none / 0) (#113)
    by sallywally on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 04:57:46 PM EST
    win HIS Nobel Prize?

    Obama has thrown so many valuable people under the bus....and putting the Big Dawg on earlier than the broadcast networks covered the convention last night was an unforgiveable one....but to throw the party's Nobel Prize winner who, like Bill, has enormous international respect under the bus is truly unforgiveable. How does Obama's international reputation compare to theirs?

    Boy, I will really have to hold my nose in November to pull that lever for Obama - if I can pull it - after this!

    I hope Biden and maybe even Michelle Obama can get this guy turned around.

    I cannot forgive this - and so many other ruthless slights of the most valuable people in the party.

    Didn't they notice that Hillary and Bill got better responses from the crowd than Obama did????


    It worked in the primaries. (none / 0) (#64)
    by Fabian on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 03:31:26 PM EST
    That's exactly what the Obama camp did to Hillary and Bill.  Every little thing.  The media enabled that strategy enormously.

    The problem is Obama isn't doing that to McCain and now the media is enabling the McCain attacks.  The media support is only tepid, but it counts as free publicity.

    The Obama campaign needs to remember the media loves a good story and not the "single mother on food stamps" one either.  This particular media wants to be a dignified version of the Jerry Springer Show.  They want drama, contrast, outrage!  They want a political cage match, but, y'know, a dignified political cage match.  

    The first campaign that gives them a narrative that they can use over and over again wins.  The media is lazy.  They love when you do their work for them.

    I suppose the best strategy would be:
    Pick an issue that you can set the bar high on.  Make a bold, visionary proposal and make it one that your opponent can't match or raise without raising howls of outrage from the party faithful.

    It's got to be something that is populist in nature, not special interest like gay marriage.  (Hey, I'd love a national push for gay marriage, but other initiatives would be more effective.)

    It's got to be sound bite worthy so people remember it.
    It's got to be antithetical to the GOP, so they can't trump it.

    It can NOT be a gimmick or a throw away.  It has to be done seriously, passionately and deliberately.

    Universal Health Care is worthy.
    So is Gore's RePower America program


    Remember, people need something to vote FOR.  People need policy issues that they don't have to wade through.  People need issues that affect everybody, not just some people.


    And you must be willing to fight for it.


    I'll second that (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by Claw on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 03:46:09 PM EST

    in order for a "Hillary Speech" (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by ccpup on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 04:16:14 PM EST
    to work for Obama in the long run, he needs to have whatever policy positions and facts and figures he cites in his bones.  They have to come from a place where he really, really wants to achieve them rather than the logical realization that he needs to say these things in order to get people to vote for him.

    If his "Hillary Speech" is just a bunch of words, he not only runs the risk of misquoting himself afterward on the campaign trail (leading to cries that he flip-flopped or what-have-you), he could also sound insincere to those very voters he's attempting to target and connect with.

    Hillary connected because those things she talked about are things she's been working years and years for.  She holds them dear and will, quite literally, fight for them.  

    Obama needs to match that sincerity she has effectively or it may appear as if he's pandering.


    I think I just realized what at least (none / 0) (#142)
    by Grace on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 06:42:14 PM EST
    part of the problem is:  Since the end of the primaries, the Obama campaign has put more emphasis into looking presidential instead of offering solutions and substance.

    They've been all about narrative and appearance instead of substance.  

    Hillary's gas tax holiday and McCain's "let's drill" are examples of solutions, regardless of how small or dumb these things actually are.  They are things people can relate to.  


    What i heard.... (none / 0) (#45)
    by p lukasiak on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 03:12:59 PM EST
    ...is that he's going to be targeting (read "pandering to") the "middle class."   And if there is was a theme to this years convention, it was aimed at the short-term self-interest of the middle-class.  

    Indeed, I'd suggest a drinking game where everyone drank a shot each time Obama said "middle class" (with the bonus that you get to drink the good stuff when he says "middle class tax cut"), but tomorrows headlines would probably read


    AP excerpt: (none / 0) (#73)
    by oculus on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 03:45:01 PM EST
    "Senator Obama's speech tonight will be as he himself has characterized it, more workmanlike, a very direct conversation with the American people about the choice we face in this election. About the risk of staying on the same path we're on, the risk of just more of the same versus the change we need," Obama spokeswoman Anita Dunn said in a conference call with reporters.

    So no specifics... (none / 0) (#85)
    by pmj6 on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 03:59:10 PM EST
    ...just more change rhetoric?

    This woman is not (none / 0) (#90)
    by lilburro on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 04:06:38 PM EST
    Obama's best and brightest, to say the least.  But she does remind me that I miss the spokesperson wars of the Dem primary.  

    I still think (none / 0) (#98)
    by Steve M on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 04:21:56 PM EST
    she should change her name to Anita Pony.

    HAH - (none / 0) (#141)
    by lilburro on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 06:42:12 PM EST
    "Anity Pony, on line one, Anity Pony..."

    Gee, that helps. (none / 0) (#99)
    by Landulph on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 04:25:40 PM EST
    So it could be anything. It's like a TV listing for CSI where it says "The team investigates a murder." No kidding, Kinsey.

    Amazing! (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by bjorn on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 02:41:59 PM EST
    The Clintons really did do their job.  It worked on me.  Now as BTD suggests Obama just has to hold the lead.  Easier said than done, and his speech tonight will give us more info on whether or not he is up to it.

    A friend of mine (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by DCDemocrat on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 02:47:53 PM EST
    who is a rock-rib Republican has been telling me he's completely undecided.  I had dinner at his house last night, and during raviolis, he said that he has and his boss, a Republican, had been talking yesterday at work.  They decided that the country really needs a change, and they're voting for Obama.  

    You could have knocked me over with a feather.


    I've Been Surprised Like That (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by daring grace on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 02:58:14 PM EST
    all through this campaign.

    People (Republicans and Independents) I never expected to consider a candidate like Obama talking enthusiastically about him.

    But I get the feeling that a lot of the enthusiasm is that they are also suffering Bush-Cheney Exhaustion. Still, they see him as someone they can back in reaction.


    Clintons worked on me also! (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by befuddledvoter on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 03:16:43 PM EST
    Obama does not have to hold the lead he has to folow the LEADERS, THE CLINTONS!!!  

    Hillary and Bill convinced me (none / 0) (#143)
    by Iris on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 06:43:46 PM EST
    I can't deny them my support in the way they ask -- I have to believe (based on my assessment of their character and integrity) that they would not so fully endorse Obama if they thought he was not the right choice.

    Obama needs to get specific and get partisan still, but Hillary and Bill opened the door for him in terms of my vote.


    I read that (5.00 / 2) (#10)
    by CST on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 02:42:15 PM EST
    He plans to talk policy.  Which I think is a good thing.  May not rile up the crowd at the stadium, but it's what people need to hear from him.  If he can do it in a way that also riles people up, even better.

    Perhaps (5.00 / 2) (#16)
    by Steve M on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 02:46:33 PM EST
    he could take a few cues from Brian Schweitzer about how to talk policy and rile the crowd up at the same time!

    In all honesty, I think Obama easily has the ability to give a speech like this and still fire up the crowd.  Certainly he talks policy in the stump speech, and folks keep showing up.  I loved his speech on energy policy in Michigan.

    If Obama shows people that he is versed on the issues and ready to leave, there is not a darn thing the Republicans will be able to do about it.  This is his big chance to take the case directly to the people.


    Brian Schweitzer was terrific! (5.00 / 2) (#22)
    by Josey on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 02:52:11 PM EST
    Story is that Schweitzer threw out (5.00 / 2) (#26)
    by andgarden on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 02:56:29 PM EST
    the prepared speech. Good for him.

    He rose to the occasion (none / 0) (#61)
    by befuddledvoter on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 03:28:36 PM EST
    He saw people were bored to tears and he acted like a real Westerner!!  He was great!!!

    There's a Freudian slip ... (none / 0) (#63)
    by Robot Porter on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 03:30:40 PM EST
    if ever I saw one:

    If Obama shows people that he is versed on the issues and ready to leave

    Haha (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by Steve M on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 03:33:42 PM EST
    I am undone.  Good catch sir.

    I post my share of typos (none / 0) (#82)
    by Robot Porter on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 03:53:31 PM EST
    We all do.

    But that one was too funny not to mention.


    the scary thing about this bounce (5.00 / 0) (#13)
    by athyrio on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 02:42:52 PM EST
    is how subject it is to the latest news...When the republicans bring out their heavy guns, I don't know what will happen....I don't see any stable "bounce" just back and forth flip flops on the part of voters as they decide who Obama is and who McCain really is...speaking for myself, it is hard to witness...

    Commit Journalism (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by Katherine Graham Cracker on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 02:51:13 PM EST
    Write letters to the editor.  If your local paper allows comments on stories -correct them when they are wrong.  Small weekly and monthly papers are always looking for stories -volunteer to write one.

    The main stream media with the help of their Republican enablers develop narratives to distract from the real issues.

    Not so sure (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by Valhalla on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 02:58:30 PM EST
    Gallup's showing a bounce, but Ras isn't (maybe just not yet).

    But Obama's been campaigning on change and hope and postpartisanship unity.  Had he been campaigning as a partisan Democrat on issues this whole time, then the Invesco extravaganza could really put a solid cap on that.

    Bill and Hillary didn't just walk on the stage from some sort of tabula rasa vacuum land.  What they said was appealing, but they also both have the chops and history to back it up.

    The convention so far has been pretty split between the red meaters and the postpartisans (the keynote being the latter).  This is not a whole party resounding on one solid theme.  Folks may like what they hear but will they believe he'll follow through?

    Having paid a lot of attention to the campaign, I won't buy a big switchup, rather, it just reinforces my perception of Obama has having no particular core principles he's following.  Others who've not been paying attention and for whom tonight is their only exposure to him may be more credulous.

    Then again, I've never really understood the people who make up the bounces from either convention anyway.  One week you're voting for guy A, next week for guy B?  Based on the circus shows that are the conventions?  Weird.

    tabula rasa vacuum land (none / 0) (#68)
    by Desired User Name on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 03:38:08 PM EST
    "tabula rasa vacuum land"


    One week you're voting for guy A, next week for guy B?  Based on the circus shows that are the conventions?  Weird.

    Well, that's entertainment! Frankly I don't know who the Pollsters are polling, it really is weird.

    Others who've not been paying attention and for whom tonight is their only exposure to him may be more credulous.

    My worry is that "others" who haven't been paying attention may see the Greek GetUp and all the
    fluff everywhere and get turned off by the spectacle, BUT, it is entertainment and people like that...

    I am eager to see what happens.


    It will never be up to Obama (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by Bornagaindem on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 02:59:45 PM EST
    It will never be his responsibility. If you think that is the case you have not been paying attention to the last 18 months. And when Obama loses it will be the Clintons fault. Mark my words.

    Allegiance is for monarchies (none / 0) (#96)
    by pluege on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 04:13:58 PM EST
    this is America, it is a democracy. Those wanting the people to bestow them with great power must earn it. If Obama can't earn the trust of ALL democrats, then he sure as hell can't also win over the independents he needs to win.

    Geraldine Ferraro (5.00 / 7) (#33)
    by Steve M on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 03:00:04 PM EST
    Yes, thanks for posting that. (none / 0) (#40)
    by chel2551 on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 03:08:56 PM EST
    I think her analysis is asolutely correct.

    She gets it. She has always gotten it.  She's a good democrat.  Too bad they tried to shoot the messenger.


    Thanks, great article (none / 0) (#41)
    by barryluda on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 03:09:33 PM EST
    It makes clear the job Obama has to get the support of this third group.

    As for the first group, I wonder how many PUMAs there are, and if there's enough time before November for some of them to have a change of heart.  I would have hoped that the two Clinton speeches would have moved some of these into giving Obama a chance, but I guess not.


    Great Piece by Ferraro (none / 0) (#49)
    by Desired User Name on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 03:17:58 PM EST
    Thanks for posting that. I

    Geraldine Ferraro inspires me (none / 0) (#60)
    by befuddledvoter on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 03:26:04 PM EST
    She has nailed it here.  I am the middle group; I needed convincing and the Clintons delivered my vote and that of my entire family.  I don't think anything Obama can say tonight can top Hillary's speech.  Kind of unfair to him in a weird way.  She was at her best-an historic speech.  He needs to continue wiht her theme and talk about concrete problems and concrete policies and strategies and solutions.  

    We need the meat.  He is smart enough to do this.  I already know about hope and change.  Time for a new message.    


    Would you mind e mailing (none / 0) (#114)
    by oculus on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 04:59:07 PM EST
    this to Jeralyn?  Great approach.  First recognize the problems and set them out.  Then discuss possible solutions.  

    Then there's this other group (none / 0) (#138)
    by Cream City on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 06:32:27 PM EST
    that saw the Dems not even bother letting our states speak up in the roll call.  

    Bad mistake.  It sends the message yet again that Dems don't count the votes, either.  

    Of course, it turns out that even the partial roll call was a sham, since the votes already had been cast.  The story just gets worse and worse.

    It's all for show, it seems, in the new politics of the New Dems.  Now I'm just waiting to see if they use canned applause tonight, too.


    Another good article (none / 0) (#139)
    by echinopsia on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 06:32:36 PM EST
    Hillary can't fix what her party broke

    One of the few I've seen that gets it.


    it is up to Obama (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by frenly on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 03:41:47 PM EST
    though I'm not going to vote McCain, I've yet to be convinced that Obama should be president.  I'm not uber-partisan so that appeal doesn't mean much to me.  At this point I'm willing to be convinced and I won't reprise the history of the campaign, though I cannot in good conscience forget it.

    I can't see McCain getting a similar bounce (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by ruffian on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 03:48:23 PM EST
    from any of his potential convention speakers. Maybe Huckabee.

    We'll have to wait and see the total Obama convention bounce, and how long it lasts.  If he is relying on the Clinton's for the whole bounce, it will be pretty ephemeral. They won't be giving nationally televised speeches every week.

    I think a lot of the bounce... (none / 0) (#89)
    by OrangeFur on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 04:05:25 PM EST
    ... for what it is, is a result of the blanket media coverage that conventions attract. Generally, dominating the news, being featured on the front pages, and leading the nightly newscasts for four straight days with people praising you and criticizing your opponent is a good thing.

    The McCain campaign performed a surprisingly effective act of jiujitsu over the Europe trip, but that's probably partly because it was so substanceless. The convention, with actual solid speeches, might be different.


    On thing Obama really needs to do ... (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by Robot Porter on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 03:51:58 PM EST
    is fire whomever is doing his television spots.  They're abysmal.

    McCain's ad team is very good.

    During the primaries, the Obama campaign had some clunkers too.  But they seem to have gotten worse.  I haven't seen a good Obama ad yet this summer.

    It's odd that such an image and media driven candidacy has a problem in this area.  But they do.

    I'm confused... (5.00 / 2) (#87)
    by OrangeFur on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 04:02:40 PM EST
    Why would a pair of race-baiters such as Hillary and Bill Clinton want to help Barack Obama? There must be some selfish purpose behind all of this.

    I think I've got it. Bill and Hillary Clinton get some secret perverse satisfaction out of watching people have health care, work at good jobs, and pass along opportunity to their children. They snicker at the idea that the government pay down its debts, and take gleeful pleasure at the thought of respect and admiration for America around the world.

    How else to explain their actions these last 16 years? The Family and Medical Leave Act, the balanced budget, the Earned Income Tax Credit, the attempt at universal health care--both in 1994 and in this year's primaries, peace agreements in Northern Ireland and the Balkans, affirmative action, etc. The evidence is as plain as day.

    It must be that they've concluded that helping the Democratic Party, for all of its ever-growing flaws and congenital timidness, and for all the private qualms they have about the primary process and the fairness of its outcome, is one way to help achieve these goals. Only this can explain their bizarre behavior.

    Obviously others of us aren't quite as sure what we feel is the best way to shape the future of the Democratic Party, but it seems that Bill and Hillary Clinton have settled on their way.

    They'll stop at nothing to try and help the middle class, I tell you. Even put away their non-existent latent racism.

    Those cwafty Cwintons! (5.00 / 1) (#106)
    by Redshoes on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 04:35:03 PM EST
    It has always been up to Obama (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by pluege on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 04:08:17 PM EST
    the Clintons didn't need to kiss the ring - this is supposed to be a democracy. Obama should have been working day and night to WIN over HRC supporters rather than demanding allegiance. And if he doesn't "get it" yet or change his attitude post Denver from what it was pre-Denver, then what the Clintons did for him in Denver won't matter squat.

    It really is up to Obama (5.00 / 0) (#102)
    by SarahSoda on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 04:29:04 PM EST
    now.  I'm not yet convinced he is ready to lead, but I am open to hear what he has to say tonight.  I don't think the "Greek Temple" thing is going to play well to the base he needs to attract most.  Heck, I even find it embarrassing.

    Why do I have this nagging feeling that it is less like a "Greek Temple" and more like the "Temple of Doom?"

    Not trying to be pessimistic, just looking for a good reason to support him, even tepidly.

    what Hillary and Bill said

    Obviously (5.00 / 1) (#112)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 04:56:01 PM EST
    you didn't see the SC memo. Politico has it. Jesse Jackson Jr did it. Clyburn did it. You can easily find it. He even accused McCain of it with the celebrity ad.

    Do tell, why are Obama supporters so angry all the time?

    BTW, your info is wrong. As of right now I'm leaving the top of the ballot blank.

    Oh I dont know (1.00 / 1) (#124)
    by jondee on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 05:28:53 PM EST
    Just speculating, but it might have something to do with spending upwards of a trillion dollars on murder, torture and wars of conquest while too many kids in U.S cities dont get three square meals a day -- we wont even talk about the fate of kids in places like Iraq.

    But, the only thing that seems to fire you up, Zell, is "flip-flipping" and people who have the utter audacity to suggest theres still alot of racism in the U.S.


    What I don't (5.00 / 1) (#126)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 05:55:03 PM EST
    get is your problem? Obama voted to fund the war continuously. If you have such a problem with all that then you should be talking to Obama.

    If you believe that there are so many racists in the country then you are conceding that nominating Obama will lead to a sure loss in Nov. And calling anyone who doesn't think he's a good candidate a racist is sure way to run off voters who aren't.


    Would someone please (5.00 / 1) (#128)
    by kredwyn on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 05:57:37 PM EST
    put duct tape over Clyburn's mouth?

    That is if they really want the votes they think they ought to be getting...

    It is up to him (4.00 / 1) (#74)
    by Carolyn in Baltimore on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 03:45:54 PM EST
    And not just this speech but the next 2 months he will need to focus - on democratic values. If he can put a wedge between him and the republicans and speak to what he wants to do (specifics please) he will get the other democratic votes.
    I hope he can pull it off. What he needs is not just our votes but for us to organize, canvass, and fight to get the Democratic ticket elected - on all levels.

    So far he has not been at all partisan - but that is what he needs to get elected and what we need in a President.

    The 2000 election and 2008 Democratic (3.66 / 3) (#37)
    by Prabhata on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 03:05:31 PM EST
    nomination will always be tied in my mind. I could understand the Republicans doing their sham vote against the Democrats, but the Democratic Party doing it to one of their is like Saturn eating its children.  Without an open and democratic roll call, the Democrats made sure I'd never support the 2008 ticket.

    How about this approach? (3.00 / 2) (#69)
    by noonan on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 03:40:12 PM EST
    It's up to us as much as it is up to Obama? Just a thought.

    Which means what? (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by lilburro on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 03:51:29 PM EST
    We live in a climate where the average Democrat blows away the average Republican when policies are polled.  Right now, Obama and McCain are still close.  Obama has a lot to work with; his supporters have been going hard since 2007, and here we are.

    I can tell people all day who Obama is and what I think he thinks, but people need to see it from Obama.  He has the ability to change the game; I have the ability to make calls and ensure voters get to the polls.


    Surely no one expects (2.00 / 2) (#1)
    by Montague on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 02:36:09 PM EST
    me to donate money to an Obama/Biden ticket to rent a stadium and erect an Olympian stage with an elevator so that Obama can rise as though by magic to the top.  Meanwhile McCain's campaign is making ads that are cutting into Obama pretty successfully.  There were times I had thought that maybe, just maybe, McCain could be beaten by Obama, but I think that was just foolish dreaming.

    Explain to me (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 02:39:58 PM EST
    how your comment is on topic?

    Gee, I guess I was gone for awhile (none / 0) (#150)
    by Montague on Fri Sep 19, 2008 at 12:18:16 PM EST
    Bill and Hillary Clinton have put in Obama's hands the ability to solidify the support of Hillary supporters.

    The topic was that Hillary supporters could now be expected to support Obama.  And I am saying that ain't gonna happen in my case; speaking for me only, as it were.


    Strange (5.00 / 2) (#4)
    by DCDemocrat on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 02:40:27 PM EST
    that you should question Obama's chances in a diary that shows his number rising.  And we should keep in mind that polls of polls have never shown him losing to date.  I am not being Pollyanna about this, but I think it's important to be faithful to the data that exist.

    I've declared Obama a shoo in (5.00 / 6) (#6)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 02:41:07 PM EST
    So, that should settle it for everybody. McCain should just go home.



    He's not a shoo in, (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by DCDemocrat on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 02:42:30 PM EST
    but he's certainly not toast, either.

    yer funny... (5.00 / 2) (#12)
    by kredwyn on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 02:42:32 PM EST
    But (none / 0) (#59)
    by Desired User Name on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 03:25:58 PM EST
    to WHICH Home? Apparently he owns so many of them!

    The data are contradictory at this point (5.00 / 3) (#15)
    by andgarden on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 02:43:32 PM EST
    We'll have to wait a couple of weeks to see where we really stand, I think.

    Actually (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 03:50:52 PM EST
    polls have shown him losing a nubmer of times. I don't know what he's doing in the EC now but last week he was losing in that too.

    Data doesn't impress me (none / 0) (#151)
    by Montague on Fri Sep 19, 2008 at 12:18:57 PM EST
    I've been through too many elections by now.  Too much data.  And too many disappointments.

    Seriously... (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 03:13:57 PM EST
    ...if this is the best that the GOP brain trust can come up, they're in real trouble, IMO.  It is silly and childish--they're just throwing crap against the wall and praying something sticks.  

    I hope BO slips a little jab in his speech tonight about how McCain thinks he should be wearing a toga.  

    You are right about one thing though--it is a beautiful late Summer Colorado day!


    Are you kidding? (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 03:52:30 PM EST
    The "celebrity" ads by McCain started the downward trend in Obama's numbers. Whether it will continue to work is another question.

    Not at all. (none / 0) (#86)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 04:02:22 PM EST
    Do you have some sort of evidence that definitively pins the decline to the celebrity ads or just your hunch based on coinsidence?

    The Gallup (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 04:59:56 PM EST
    tracking poll showed him losing support when the ads came out. Check for yourself.

    A few weeks later... (none / 0) (#152)
    by Montague on Fri Sep 19, 2008 at 12:20:50 PM EST
    How's that working out?  Best the GOP brain trust can come up with?  

    Come on!  They don't have to make SMART or TRUE ads.  We already knew that.  They make emotional ads that, frankly, work.


    We'll see how it goes (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by DemForever on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 03:23:54 PM EST
    but going into it, I agree with you

    I think Obama's people didn't help him here (none / 0) (#52)
    by Teresa on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 03:21:17 PM EST
    and I think he knows it. That's why he made the speech last night about why the convention is moving. I think he knows it was a bad decision but it was too late to change it.

    I wish I could remember where I read it so I could link it, but I read the other day that Obama is not as much on board with this hopey, changey, personality stuff anymore. He wants his campaign to dial it back, while they insist to him that his inspirational speeches, etc. are the way to go. If this is true, for his sake, he needs to win this battle.


    Well, if he can't win THAT (5.00 / 2) (#108)
    by oldpro on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 04:36:49 PM EST
    battle, he's a goner.

    Now's the time to emulate Ronald Reagan..."I'm PAYING for this microphone!"

    (Of course, he isn't really...they are.  Hmmm...)


    It's a bit weird (5.00 / 1) (#127)
    by Valhalla on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 05:57:11 PM EST
    that he can't get his own campaign staff to dial it back.  Did he mean his surrogates (who are less tied into the messaging meetings?)

    That story reminded me of the myth of the good king/bad advisors, which some leaders use to great effect to distance themselves publicly from their own policies that have greatly negative impacts.  Stalin took advantage of it; people in general have a need to believe that their leaders are basically good and trying to lead them in the right direction.  

    Although I suppose that myth/tendency could also be said of both candidates this year playing the surrogate game.


    Really? Now he's not responsible for this (5.00 / 1) (#140)
    by Cream City on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 06:38:37 PM EST
    convention and show of shows, too?  I just googled and found his name as the attribution for the decision to move tonight's speech.

    Thanks for the reminder that whatever he says tonight may change tomorrow.  


    McCain's new Ad... (none / 0) (#19)
    by cosbo on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 02:49:49 PM EST
    undoing the Clintons speeches...with the Clintons, and Biden, and Dodd and heck...even Obama himself.


    Bill anticipated and inoculated (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by barryluda on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 03:01:29 PM EST
    Didn't you hear Bill's great line comparing Obama today to himself when he was first running for president?  No way does McSame's ads undo the Clintons' speeches.

    Undoing the Clinton's speeches? (none / 0) (#23)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 02:54:25 PM EST
    Don't think so.  

    The effect at least. (none / 0) (#24)
    by cosbo on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 02:56:06 PM EST
    Still,you can see where this is going....

    Dangerous World: Inexperienced Leader.


    Dangerous world (none / 0) (#71)
    by jondee on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 03:43:20 PM EST
    in large part because the Thugs and their current sorry excuse for a President's idea of enlightened foreign policy is a toxic combination of brinksmanship and sabre-rattling grandstanding.

    You dont have to "sound like an academician" to lay that out clearly to the American people.


    No,...but you DO (5.00 / 1) (#109)
    by oldpro on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 04:41:19 PM EST
    have to have an alternative that isn't every bit as scarey.

    Vague won't cut it.


    If the world is scaring people (5.00 / 1) (#129)
    by Valhalla on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 05:59:30 PM EST
    it doesn't matter who created or increased the scariness.

    You have to find a way to present yourself as the leader who will make it less scary.  Obama tried with the European trip but he hasn't really gone up much in polling on FP/terrorism ratings.


    Somebody needs to (none / 0) (#25)
    by lilburro on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 02:56:10 PM EST
    just come out and say that McCain is obsessed with us (by somebody, I mean a name Democrat).  McCain can't get over the Democrats this year, we lead, he follows.

    Why would they. (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by cosbo on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 03:00:18 PM EST
    The unique problem with McCain is that DEMOCRATS like McCain. He has plenty of video of lots of them saying so. Even Hillary, before she attacked McCain, called him her friend.

    The problem is that McCain is not George Bush and nobody believes that he is. His maverick image is firmly intact because DEMOCRATS themselves say they like McCain.

    Him playing them saying so, only make us look like idiots and it's working.


    Not this guy (5.00 / 2) (#38)
    by Steve M on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 03:07:27 PM EST
    Harry Reid:

    "I've served with the man 26 years," Reid said. "Do I have the ability to speak with experience about someone who has abused everyone he's dealt with? Someone who does not have the temperament to be president, who's wrong on the war, wrong on the economy, wrong on nuclear waste. What am I supposed to do? Walk around talking about what a great guy he is? I don't believe that. .... "

    "There isn't a Republican serving in the Senate that's happy he's the nominee. Now, they're all supporting him, but I'll tell you they have told me. I've had Republican senators tell me they don't think they'll vote for him," Reid said.

    When Ralston asked if Reid thought it would be "dangerous" to let McCain be president, Reid answered: "Well, if you said it, I wouldn't correct you."

    Incidentally, in the last NBC poll, 77% of voters said that they expect McCain, if elected, to continue George Bush's policies.  So let's not go overstating his awesome maverickitude.


    Was that Harry Reid (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by DemForever on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 03:11:15 PM EST
    or Harry Truman?  I bet there is more to the story.

    Interesting how Democrats like (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by cosbo on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 03:11:46 PM EST
    John Kerry, Russ Feingold and few more all talk about saying what a great guy he is, and the republicans are the ones who do not like him.

    The world is sure twisted nowadays.


    Yeah, except what kind of pull does Harry Reid (none / 0) (#51)
    by Valhalla on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 03:20:16 PM EST
    have?  Not a whole lot, I'd bet.

    Also, counter-praise is always more convincing than same-side praise.


    That doesn't change the fact (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by lilburro on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 03:23:15 PM EST
    that McCain's commercials have all paid attention to every little thing Democrats do, and only play it back in a different context to their viewers.  The world is watching DEMOCRATS, and looking up to Democrats, and even McCain acknowledges it!  I think we could get our own little Youtube laugh in about it.

    They also say they (none / 0) (#80)
    by jondee on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 03:52:21 PM EST
    like him because the spin has become that "war heroes" like McCain are like sacred bulls from The Temple of Shiva, who cant be denigrated without denigrating their "service" and that of "all our other brave men and women" etc etc

    Not Bush, but too close to Bush for comfort.


    Do you (none / 0) (#83)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 03:56:00 PM EST
    want to help McCain? He's already pretending that he's not a Republican.

    big ouch (none / 0) (#84)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 03:57:07 PM EST
    on that one. The most damaging one is Biden.

    The footage of Obama (none / 0) (#100)
    by ccpup on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 04:26:20 PM EST
    at the end of that ad speaking of his own inexperience is damning.  

    He and his Scooby Gang better be crafting a serious, clear and honest response for when that footage is played at the debates and he's asked to explain What, now, is different?



    Effective (none / 0) (#122)
    by waldenpond on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 05:14:30 PM EST
    That one gives a message much stronger than that other militaristic one.  The other one was boring, this one seems crisper.  The security issue was in the background while the Democrats with perceived experience and reputations are all agreeing that one of their own doesn't have experience yet.

    The adults in the room?  I don't know... I need to watch it several times, but that one has an impact on me.


    Tonight is key (none / 0) (#21)
    by barryluda on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 02:51:34 PM EST
    Both Bill and Hillary did great.  While they didn't convince every former Hillary supporter to now join her in voting for Obama, as you point out it had a measurable impact.

    They did better than I expected.  The most I thought I could reasonably hope for was that they convince their supporters to give Obama one last chance.  So, you're exactly right that it's now up to Obama.  He needs to move the needle with Hillary's supporters who, thanks to her and Bill's speeches, are willing to give Obama another shot.

    But Obama probably has to have one eye on the non-partisan audience.  I just hope in looking out of that eye he doesn't mess things up with the Hillary supporters he gained in the last two nights.  I'll be holding my breath and, of course, looking here anxiously to see J's and BTD's analysis.

    BTD.... (none / 0) (#53)
    by p lukasiak on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 03:23:10 PM EST
    Do you really expect a substantial additional bounce from Bill's speech?  

    And I'm curious whether you think that the fact that the GOP convention is next week is good or bad for Obama.  

    Its probably a mixed bag -- it doesn't give Obama much time to solidify his new gains, but at the same time, the GOP message coming out so soon after the four day "commercial" for Obama may be less effective that it would be if there was at least a week between the two conventions.

    unless the footage of McCain (none / 0) (#103)
    by ccpup on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 04:30:39 PM EST
    during his POW experience pulls at the heartstrings of the American People and that's followed up with a montage of him being re-elected time and time and time again as Senator (planting the subliminal seed that McCain is a "winner").

    I think whatever bounce Obama gets may be muted or undercut by the news of John McCain's Running Mate as well as the beginning of the Republican Convention.

    Conversely, unless the Obama Campaign has something earth shattering happen which coincides with the end of the Republican Convention, McCain's bounce will go unchallenged giving him, it may appear, a bigger bounce than Obama got.


    I've already stated my expectations from his (none / 0) (#56)
    by Edgar08 on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 03:24:06 PM EST
    speech and if he can challenge his supporters on their set of priorities the same way Clinton challenged her supporters then I'll be about there.

    It doesn't mean I'll be letting a lot of things go, but it does mean that I'll have a better idea of where Obama stands on those things.  

    It was my biggest issue with his big speech on race.  He wants to distance himself but he doesn't want to challenge his supporters to change their ways.

    This is his final chance to change my mind on this issue.

    ABSOLUTELY (none / 0) (#57)
    by Desired User Name on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 03:24:08 PM EST

    One problem... (none / 0) (#92)
    by OrangeFur on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 04:10:58 PM EST
    ... is that he's already made two specific promises--public financing and filibustering FISA--and broken both of them.

    Somehow he needs to convince people that he really believes what he's saying, in a real, extremely firm sense, and not simply reading a list made up by advisers. You can tell which are a candidate's real priorities. For example, do you think Hillary cares more about universal health care or a gas tax holiday. She talked about both, but one is obviously her real passion.

    I need to hear from Obama what he really, deeply, believes. I'm not really sure. Those who believed him when it came to public financing and FISA really need to be more skeptical this time.

    I want to hear these words (none / 0) (#93)
    by BarnBabe on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 04:11:42 PM EST
    We WILL have a Universal Health Care Plan in place within 2 years for ALL Americans. Now that would be music to my ears.

    Its not about pandering (none / 0) (#101)
    by pluege on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 04:28:05 PM EST
    Its about substance. Obama has given nothing but fluffy words... no gut, no insight, no convincing foundational beliefs or stand-for-American-ideals attitude.

    Luckily the republicans are so disastrously horrendous that I'll be voting against mcinsane, which means I have to vote for Obama...and I suspect there are many like me.

    Between now and November I will give Obama every benefit of the doubt I can, but to-date, he's done nothing to win me over (which has nothing to do with HRC because I'm not a fan of her politics either). Unfortunately, I sense Obama and his advisers are counting on a lot on me's voting against mcinsane, so I'm really not expecting much.

    As a PUMA, (none / 0) (#105)
    by theybannedmeinboston on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 04:34:52 PM EST
    I need nothing from Obama as long as he expects nothing from me.

    Heh (none / 0) (#110)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 04:45:24 PM EST
    There's the healing we need.

    Funny (n/t) (1.00 / 1) (#117)
    by sher on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 05:01:02 PM EST
    The lead is to be expected (none / 0) (#111)
    by Monda on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 04:49:38 PM EST
    If you remember, Dukakis left the convention with 17% lead.  And we all know how that turned out.  I don't know if anyone has other statistics about convention bounces (repubs or dems.) Granted, Bill and Hillary did a great job.  

    But when all is said and done, it's really up to the candidate to sell his views and get the votes.  His speech will matter tonight, but tomorrow the media will talk all day about the VP choice for McCain, then the repub convention, or Gustav, so I'm not sure how long the bounce will last.  

    Stats: The bounce is to be 5.5 pts (none / 0) (#144)
    by Cream City on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 06:46:22 PM EST
    and it's only 4 pts, but in only one poll -- so far.  (That 5.5 is below the norm, but there are factors involved such as late timing of conventions, etc.)

    See this blog, which is being quoted a lot lately.


    hillary and bill were magnificent (none / 0) (#115)
    by Jlvngstn on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 04:59:24 PM EST
    and demonstrated loyalty beyond their words which were incredibly strong.  I simply cannot think how Obama can address 18 million people and win them all.  What could he possibly say?  beats the heck out of me but I am going to watch primarily to see how he handles that.  Should be interesting.

    I don't... (none / 0) (#118)
    by DET103 on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 05:01:08 PM EST
    ...think he has 18 million to reach.

    you are right (5.00 / 1) (#120)
    by Jlvngstn on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 05:11:03 PM EST
    but it would be nice if 17.5 walked away feeling as if he acknowledged how hard those speeches were for HRC and WJC.  Not because they don't believe them, but because they believed in their ability more.  I think he needs to acknowledge them in a way that demonstrates the lack of self absorbancy in light of a difficult, tight and contentious campaign.  I felt their responses were selfless (some might disagree with that statement) and of high honor.  I think his job is harder communicatively without considering her for number 2.  But then again, I am a mope with a keyboard....

    What are the chances Obama will (none / 0) (#119)
    by oculus on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 05:04:52 PM EST
    boldly state, as the Clintons did, his support for a woman's right to choose and gay and lesbian rights?

    Yes (none / 0) (#130)
    by jondee on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 06:04:03 PM EST
    that passing (in the extreme) reference to gay and lesbian rights was nothing if not boldly stated.

    Did either of them ever actually use the words "gay" or "lebian"?


    Yes (5.00 / 1) (#132)
    by Steve M on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 06:08:00 PM EST
    and it was a significant thing for those who care about gay rights, even if your distaste for the Clintons requires you to deny the obvious.

    I think (none / 0) (#134)
    by jondee on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 06:13:13 PM EST
    they're bsically decent people, but I have a distaste for disengenuity (dont you?), and stone-blind hero worship.

    Do me a favor and dont try to lay that "Hillary hater" b.s on me.


    lesbian. (none / 0) (#131)
    by jondee on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 06:04:37 PM EST
    If he says he'll get the ERA bill (none / 0) (#145)
    by Cream City on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 06:50:22 PM EST
    in Congress for years again now out of committee and onto the floor, and he will back it with all that the White House can do. . . .

    And if he's believable -- I would listen.  

    It would go a long way to making pay inequities go away, if a president and Constitutional law prof actually had the guts to point out that we still have not negated the word "male" that was amended into it 140 years ago.

    I'm out of patience with the Dems on this.


    Bill and Hillary Clinton did their job (none / 0) (#121)
    by lentinel on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 05:14:09 PM EST
    and it wasn't even their job to do.

    So true n/t (none / 0) (#135)
    by stefystef on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 06:16:48 PM EST
    After seeing that awful backdrop... (none / 0) (#123)
    by Pol C on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 05:15:54 PM EST
    ...my guess is that Obama intends for the likes of Chris Matthews to hail the speech tonight as the greatest piece of oratory since Pericles' Funeral Oration. Quite frankly, I expect it'll be a lot of superficially impressive-sounding nothing that supposed to wow less critically-minded people over how brilliant Obama is--like that race speech of his in Philadelphia that was hailed as the greatest speech on race since "I Have a Dream," and which no one can remember two sentences from now. To borrow Taylor Marsh's trope, it'll be a bunch of word fog.

    Everything up to now about this speech bothers me. Holding it on the anniversary of "I Have a Dream" just says that Obama feels he's supplanting the legacy of Dr. King, and moving it from Pepsi to Invesco indicates a disdain for the larger Democratic Party--Obama's saying I'm a class apart from those people. You know, the sort of icky rabble who would give the Clintons big standing ovations. And now we have the pretentious ridiculousness of the Obamathenon or the O-cropolis or whatever it is they're calling it.


    Pericles' Funeral Oration??? (none / 0) (#137)
    by stefystef on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 06:28:13 PM EST
    I remember it like it was yesterday.
    Ooooh, who do you think you are?  Dennis Miller LOL

    Your observation about the pretentious of the Obama coronation is spot on.


    Call me an old fogey, I guess (none / 0) (#147)
    by Pol C on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 07:31:29 PM EST
    Pericles' Funeral Oration was a commonplace in world history and civics classes when I was in high school. It's probably the greatest political speech ever written, and emblematic of the ideals of ancient Athens and, by extension, all liberal (in the classical sense of the word) democracies that followed, including the U.S.

    It's sad to read that it's too much to expect for people to understand the reference.



    I was messin' wit' ya! (none / 0) (#149)
    by stefystef on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 11:10:24 PM EST
    I told my mom what you posted and she got a good laugh.  She said, she had read the oration 40 years back.  And I said, damn mom, you are old!

     And we had a good laugh.  

    The Greeks understood the ideal of democracy and the rights of man.  It should be required reading for all students in all democracies around the world.


    It's Up to Obama (none / 0) (#125)
    by Lowtideppm on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 05:51:54 PM EST
      What I heard from the Clintons this week was what I was looking to hear when I considered voting for Obama earlier this year.
      That solid Democrat stuff.  But apparently he couldn't brag on that since it would mean acknowledging the recent successful 2 term Democratic administration.  Unfortunately that might have reflected too well on his opponent.

      Nah.  I'll say it again.  He trashed the Democratic brand in order to win the Democratic nomination.  The media CDS was already out there, the misogyny was a bit of frosting, the successfull painting of the Clintons as racists...
      All of this combined with the real political smarts of focusing on the caucuses and tapping into the Internet gave him quite a ride.

      Once it was safe, he picked a pro-war Washington insider MBNA suck-up as a running mate - not just for the "experience" and "foreign policy" cred, but for the appeal to those blue collar low information types who might not be Archie Bunker, after all.

      I assumed that I'd vote for the Democrat, whoever that turned out to be.  The Democrat party now has a more favorable rating in this country and people of both parties are fed up with Bush/Cheney and what they have  wrought.  I was SO looking forward to voting for a Democrat!

      I think a very big problem with the Obama campaign was that so many of his supporters painted their fellow Democrats with that RightWingNarrative of Hillary Evil.

      I could be so very, very wrong. But I think it's something that will play out in the election and not in Obama's favor.
      I"m leaving that Presidential slot blank, voting Dem downticket. I think the economic conditions will force some actual government "for the people".  Obama hasn't earned my respect or my vote.

    Hillary Clinton was the right choice (none / 0) (#133)
    by stefystef on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 06:12:34 PM EST
    In November, it will be proven true.

    I know Jeralyn and BTD do not want any negative postings about Obama or the impending downfall of the Democratic Party, so I will keep it to myself.

    And no, I won't give money to Obama/Biden and no, I won't support in anyway.  The great thing about America- you have the right to stay home.

    This is a great country.  Despite who's in office, we will survive as a country and as Americans : )  And remember, we are not all lemmings and settle for what is thrown to us.

    Obama (none / 0) (#136)
    by mmc9431 on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 06:20:36 PM EST
    All Obama needs to do tonight is speak to Democratic values! This isn't the time or place for reaching across the aisle.

    So Far, So Good-- (none / 0) (#146)
    by KeysDan on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 06:58:16 PM EST
    A politician, new to the national stage with little legislative achievement, won the Democratic Party nomination for president over a generally good and qualified (Mike Gravel notwithstanding) field of eight candidates, including Senator Clinton. Mrs. Clinton is probably the most famous woman in the world, former First Lady, and twice elected senator from one of our largest states. Senator Obama has obtained record-breaking campaign finances. In defeat, Senator Clinton and the  former President of the United States, Bill Clinton, were expected to deliver fealty to assure their reputations and future positions in the party.  While not all may agree with the process, this outcome is a reality and we now move ahead with our hope for change.  The wily and masterful process that got Senator Obama to this point, must be adapted and deployed to the defeat of Mr. McCain and what the Republican Party now stands for. As President Clinton stated in his convention address, the Republicans, as of 2000, finally got their chance to try their hare brained, Milton Friedman-type ideas, and we are now suffering from them.  Tonight is Obama's, but mostly our, big night.

    Milton Friedman-type ideas (none / 0) (#148)
    by JDM in NYC on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 09:35:34 PM EST
    You do not want to go there-
    There be Dragons and Ghouls(bees)