Thank for the ride. Jeralyn, you have to do what you feel is right.

Said another way:  would you rather Joe Biden and Barack Obama in charge of the Department of Justice, or Joe Lieberman and David Addington?

I wish I could say I was onboard with this ticket, but in all honesty I can't. If after watching Bill and Hillary Clinton I am still not convinced then I have to trust my instinct.

The comments here fill up quickly with repetitive, tiring criticism we've heard a million times. No more, and especially not today.

I love and respect Hillary Clinton, She fought a good fight. But as far as I am concerned, we need a new direction and I always said I was willing to support either one.

 I guess I won't be on this blog anymore.  Thanks for the past opportunities.  There's nothing here for me now, so I'm off to oother blogs.

Oh - not one nickel to these guys....

I'll still support progressive principles wherever I find them.  We Can Solve It can use my free time and spare money.  Headed by the best kind of politician - a "recovering politician".

Jeralyn, I have had tremendous respect for you, but this is beyond the pale.

If loyal Dems don't fight for the soul of our party which we have worked for for decades, dreamed of for our families, children and those who have fallen through the cracks of our society, who will?

Sadly for the Democratic party I am much fonder of BTD than I am of Obama. BTD has earned my respect and Obama hasn't. But BTD is not running
for POTUS.

I'd be a bit saddened to have to bale on this forum...I mean if I have read this blog correctly?

That we are no longer allowed to voice our opinions about this election process unless we get in lock step behind the ticket that's been forced upon us.

Thing I enjoy about this blog site is that not only are the people calm&collected, intelligent, well informed, witty, charming and kind even when they're angry or sad as hell! I also love that this is a relatively  TROLL FREE ZONE.

I've enjoyed lurking the past few months after deciding to not really participate.

My email address is in my account info section if you ever want to reach me.

All the best

Barack Obama and Joe Biden now represent something that is bigger than they are, but they are the ones who will carry the party forward.  They are the ones who have to get elected, so their message and their methods are crucial elements of reaching that goal.  I am hard-pressed to understand how we will hold their feet to the fire  - how you will advocate for those issues and policies that are important to you - without "criticism."  

I have spent enough time on blogs that were little more than echo chambers, where cheerleading was the order of the day, and I left because it was pointless; I can talk to myself if all I want to hear is the same point of view.

This is an imperfect ticket and an imperfect party; they should never be exempt from criticism, and I shudder to think that we would want to emulate the insular and closed-loop atmosphere of the GOP that brooked no criticism and demanded only loyalty in the Bush Administration; that just makes me feel ill, because that is not emblematic to me of how a free and fair society operates.

I will never feel the same about Obama as I did about Hillary. She was a once in a lifetime candidate.  

My real hope is that there will be enough people of experience and power to steer and support Obama in the real Democratic tradition.      

Now onto some constructive criticism:

It is so easy..... Just ignore the candidates themselves.  Pretend they don't exist.  Are you kidding me that there is nothing you can find to criticize besides the candidates themselves?  Politics are a friggin' circus.  This stuff is mockalicious.

Focus on the campaigns not the candidates, how their strategies are working, is an ad effective, who are they targeting, the moronic media coverage... the people surrounding the campaigns are always good for a severe mocking.

Four years ago when the party nominated Kerry, I swallowed my problems with him and energetically supported and worked for him.  But I told myself, I was never again going to succumb to the wishes of the party if they went against what I thought was right.

Well, it looks like I'm doing it again.

I have a problem with breaking-up with women too.

There has definitely has been a recent significant increase in the number of criticisms of Obama that have little or no relationship to the topic (any post about McCain immediately becomes about why Obama is 'just as bad' or 'can't be trusted' on that issue/topic -- and then expands into any criticism of Obama that can possibly be tied to that topic).   But what REALLY gets the knee-jerk "why I can't support Obama' stuff going is criticisms of PUMAs that insult our integrity and/or intelligence.

When Mac speaks of how he loves America, I think of that line in the movie "Mother" with Albert Brooks and Debbie Reynolds:

Mother; "I love you, son.'

I really wish I could "get on board". Up until FISA I thought I would be able to, but my conscience will not allow me to support something that's only slightly better than what the other side is offering. I've done that too many times in life and I'm done with it. Pardon my skepticism, but I know quite a few politicians personally -- one is a good friend -- and even these "good Democrats" are very focused on doing whatever it takes to keep their seats of power. I know a little too much about the real people behind the faces in D.C. and I simply do not believe this year's presidential nominee has my best interests at heart.

Because I started reading, though not commenting at, TL long before this presidential season, I'll probably lurk again to see how the next few weeks shake out before deciding one way or the other if I have a place here.

I often say that if someone has something they wanna comment or blog about, and feeling restricted, I quote Jeralyn:  

"start your own blog."  

Like some on here I have expressed my position with respect to the Democratic ticket and have moved on.  Since my position is left of Talk Left (voting Green here), I will stop by from time to time but not comment.  JM shows a lot of respect to commenters, it's time we do the same.

Smooches to all and much love from the state that brought you Barbara Jordan and my beloved Governor Ann Richards.

No one is "entitled" to comment on someone else's blog.

As for the party right now, and that includes the "ticket" and the Congress, and especially the leaders, I'm pretty worried about where we're going, and I think they need as much constructive criticism as they can get.  I think they need to hear the voices.  Right now, it appears that the leadership is not not listening at all, and that, IMHO, is their biggest problem, and hence, our biggest problem.

As for TL, I would very much miss reading and posting here.  I'm not sure if my commenting would qualify as kvetching or not.  Sometimes it probably is.  Need time to see how things are going forward, and to think over whether this is a place for me or not.

However, with this new policy, I already see a lot more rah rah rah Obama posters coming through, and while I have conceded that I will be voting for Obama (as the token black candidate - MLK would be so proud), I don't think I need to read what I can hear perfectly fine on MSNBC and CNN.

Who knows? Maybe it will help me with my Obama issues if I don't read what all his problems are in the first place. (I KNOW that you will continue to police him, but what's the point? He gets what he wants unless people here are encouraged to vote as they see fit, regardless of whether there is a D after his name.)

From the primaries, to the convention, to the blogs, I am bewildered by the enforcement of unity. The power of political discourse is in its repetition, not its expression in four parts - or uniformity. Parties and blogs are organic collectives, filled with rancor as much as agreement. Ernesto Laclau, radical democracy, anyone?

Certainly, blogging communities can atrophy and recollect easily, but parties have a density that does not favor the kind of Balkanization and recombination we have witnessed from progressive (used in its most inclusive sense) blogs during this cycle. Left bloggers once purported to be ideological apparatus that could change party elites (crashing the gates). Now, what we see over and over again this cycle, are bloggers' efforts to change or silence party rank and file.

Does talkleft's public responsibility as a tiny lever on party politics end with an assertion of private ownership? A kind of net neutrality (a common posting rule for all, regardless of political bent) now does not apply to the proprietors of blogs? Can the political capital created by a social community suddenly be seized as the personal capital of the principle posters (as dailykos and TPM clearly believed)?

I enjoyed occasionally posting here, but will be off to explore different sites to discuss the shenanigans of the Democratic party and DNC from a more critical viewpoint.

    Once a government is committed to the principle of silencing the voice of opposition, it has only one way to go, and that is down the path of increasingly repressive measures, until it becomes a source of terror to all its citizens and creates a country where everyone lives in fear.
       -Harry S Truman

There is tonic in the things that men do not love to hear; and there is damnation in the things that wicked men love to hear. Free speech is to a great people what winds are to oceans and malarial regions, which waft away the elements of disease, and bring new elements of health. And where free speech is stopped miasma is bred, and death comes fast.
      - Henry Ward Beecher

Restriction of free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us.
      - William Orville Douglas

We are not afraid to entrust the American people with unpleasant facts, foreign ideas, alien philosophies, and competitive values. For a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is afraid of its people.
      - John Fitzgerald Kennedy

If the fires of freedom and civil liberties burn low in other lands, they must be made brighter in our own. If in other lands the press and books and literature of all kinds are censored, we must redouble our efforts here to keep them free.
      - Franklin Delano Roosevelt

Free speech, exercised both individually and through a free press, is a necessity in any country where people are themselves free.
      - Theodore Roosevelt

There is no more fundamental axiom of American freedom than the familiar statement: In a free country we punish men for crimes they commit but never for the opinions they have.
      - Harry S. Truman

Blind loyalty to a politician, a dogma or a party is the fastest way to kill what you hold most dear.
         -Dissenter

Fact is, I've never drunk the cool aid.  Obama has huge potential and just as huge liabilities/failings.  My hope is to find ways to use the rock star appeal to get him elected, while still holding his feet to the fire on left wing issues.  It'll be tricky.  I'm willing to accept some things like his FISA flip flop because I think our party would be dead in the water without it, and because I don't trust the multi-billionaires who lead the Bush Admin around by the nose to not set off a dirty bomb in our country just to instill more fear and win the election.  But eliminating FISA from the Repubs arsenal this election cycle doesn't mean giving up on constitutional rights.  

I'd like to brainstorm ways to win (take back our government) without losing our shirts.  For instance, how can we subvert the hold Republicans have on evangelicals and incorporate them under the big tent without ending up with their religion in our public schools?  Burning them off only drives them back to Repubs who lie to them and make fun of us and our issues in order to capture their votes and stay in power.  But the fact is, we have more shared values with them than the Repub party does, but we disagree on methods.  For example, we all want a better world for our kids, we care about helping others, we believe in freedom of and from religion (yes they do also but they may need reminding since they're part of the dominant religion in our country). Christians don't want Islamic law instilling in our government any more that we want the Bible taught in our schools.  

I've been at TL since way before any of these candidates announced they were running. I have learned so much about women's history and the history of our party from reading you all. I've learned about the Russia vs Georgia struggle and the Iraq war and FISA...I could go on all day.

Thanks for the honest critique during the primaries.

Though my comments are always civil, I can't stand to read a blog that wants to create a happy world where the ticket has reason to be supported and those who don't end up being punished.

That said, I am sensing already that the new rules are going to allow an influx of the, shall we say, most "fervent" pro-Obama posters and give free reign to their repeated threats, slurs, and assorted exhortations to get on board. I can't. This ticket doesn't get my vote or my nickel so it looks like I will have to say buh-bye for now. I'll keep reading/lurking, as long as the comments don't become too DK-like.

I am not sure that Obama fully appreciates the responsibility that goes with the nomination and hopefully the Presidency but then again who really does until they have actually served?  And in looking at the differences between Hillary and Obama, I realize that they are two completely different kind of candidates - one appeals to the intellectual side and the other appeals to the emotional and passionate side.  But fundamentally they are Democrats and that means something positive in my mind.

PUMAs are a lot of things but 'crazy and confused' isn't one of them.

Try angry.  Try furious.  Try exasperated.

Try determined.

Determined to hold the Democratic Party accountable.

I am perfectly comfortable voting and working for down ticket democrats and not voting for the guy who is going to need training wheels. It is up to the likes of Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid to rein in a runaway McCain not me. Since the electoral college still exists I still don't even have the right to vote for president. So why are so many of you acting as if it is the end of the world if you can't support the top of the ticket.

how is that working out now? will that stop a republican justice department?  will it stop republican judges?  

time get the DEM ticket elected.

Meaning, even when Hillary LOST after Wisconsin, when Chuck Todd, repeatedly said count the math, when many did NOT want to follow the Democratic Rules, which were adhered to in the end, now you are told to hit the road.

Well, it should have been get behind Obama MONTHS ago, but this blog was allowed to fester that bitterness until you heard Hill and Bill tell you to get behind the ticket.

At this point, if you do not, when Obama and Clinton are practically on the SAME PAGE in Policy, it is personal and it tinges with race.  Sorry, it does.

I am am African-American woman who has REPEATEDLY fell in line, even with WHITE politicians who have repeatedly FAILED.

It is now your time.  To whine about this at this point is moot.  You have no reason NOT to back this ticket unless for your personal feelings.  And yes, the Democratic Party is a big tent, and YES, some don't want to vote for a bi-racial man.

Pity.  If McCain get in, DON'T WHINE if your job is sent overseas, your healthcare premiums go through the roof, homes in your neighborhood is abandoned for months, years, you can't find a job, and the constitution is totally destroyed.

My condolences to her loving wife and family.

There should be no problem for people to adapt to the new paradigm.  If the same rules are applied to Obama-nays as have been applied to Obama-yeas in the past, we'll have more balance and calm in which to explore issues and discuss the general election.