Brooding on Biden

Okay, I just arrived to Jerri's house, driving from Owl Farm through a massive rain storm through the Rocky Mountains.

Yes, I've been brooding about our new VP candidate. The only people I've seen doing back flips over the Biden affair are Joe Biden and John McCain. A million unlikely voters got text messages at 3am with the "The VP Announcement!" Yeah!!! They opened their texts and saw...What? Joe Biden?  Oh. And went back to sleep.

If Joe Biden had his way all these years with the laws he's been writing, Hunter would have been in jail.[more...]

But, why be so grim Anita?  Obama isn't stupid. Surely he knows something we don't. Hopefully all those cell phone numbers that he collected for the announcement will come in handy on election day.

As Hunter often said "when the going gets weird the weird turn pro." This is definitely weird.

Thus, I'll do my best to get excited and grab some pom-poms for the team this week.  This is the first presidential election without Hunter's voice. We're all feeling the vacuum.

< Saturday Afternoon Open Thread II | Opinion Journalism >
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    Hello Anita! OK, here's a fun thing (5.00 / 0) (#1)
    by DandyTIger on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:09:25 PM EST
    I just heard. Apparently there is a specially assigned group from team Obama who's sole job is to keep all Hillary supporters under control. And kick any out that say anything negative. All aboard the unity train...

    Ya know, things like that (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by nycstray on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:12:42 PM EST
    just bring out the bad girl in me. Methinks I'd be spending way too much time in those dog cages, lol!~

    The Group... (5.00 / 2) (#3)
    by Brillo on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:12:56 PM EST
    Is from team Clinton actually.  

    she can't even breathe (5.00 / 7) (#7)
    by sarahfdavis on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:18:11 PM EST
    without it somehow being derogatory towards him.
    they are already bellowing that "she must do more to make her supporters fall in line".
    she's got a fr*ckin' knife to her throat...what do you expect her to do.

    Let us make this perfectly clear (5.00 / 21) (#18)
    by Cream City on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:31:20 PM EST
    as the pols say.  If Senator Clinton asked me to wear a pantsuit for the country, I would do so.  I would give up my jeans and sweats.  That is a major sacrifice for me.

    Senator Clinton could ask me for a lot, as she has done.  So I have given up a lot to donate and work for a Democrat, a real Democrat, this year.

    And Senator Clinton certainly can ask me for my vote.  I gave it to her, as I would and will do for any real Dem who upholds the party principles and platform.

    But I also know, with a certainty that comes from following her speeches and more for years now, expect me to act like a lemming and blindly follow.

    I understand her decision to support Obama.  But I do not do everything that she asks me to do.  I was a Clinton supporter, and for a long time now, because I have a brain and a will of my own.

    She is a pol.  I am not.  I am a voter.  And I don't have that knife at my throat.  Nor do Obama, Biden, Dean, Pelosi, Brazile, or any of them have anything that I want.  

    Except to get the h*ll off Clinton's back.  Then again, the more they and the lemmings keep this up, the more likely that they will lose it for Obama.  Look at what happens when he picks a VP.  They make it all about Clinton.

    And thus, she has won already in many very important ways.  And thus, so have I.  This country never will be quite the same.  And that is a good thing, once it gets past -- as it always does -- all the same that the other "Dems" have brought down on the capital-D and lower-case d democratic process.


    Cs: all the shame (5.00 / 9) (#20)
    by Cream City on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:33:01 PM EST
    that they have brought down upon the Democratic Party and the democratic process.

    They will survive.  They may be better for all of this.  And so will Senator Clinton.


    calming words (5.00 / 15) (#36)
    by sarahfdavis on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:44:31 PM EST
    thanks. i can't tell you how upsetting this all is. it just doesn't stop. an avalanche of heart breaking disrespect. it has become so personal to so many of us. the cruelty and hatred is unbelievable. hiding under the guise of liberalism and progressive values. it cuts much deeper than the hatred from the republicans. this is from the ones we're supposed to trust.

    Yes. I know. Hang in there. (5.00 / 9) (#56)
    by Cream City on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 06:01:33 PM EST
    And keep holding your head high, as I can do, when I think of what Clinton has to do.

    We don't have to do it, lucky us.  But we do have to keep speaking out about it, and I thank you for that.  I have seen before, after the Anita Hill hearings, what backlash can do to us all.  (If you haven't read it, see Susan Faludi's book Backlash.)  Those hearings specifically encouraged a coworker to go after me and nearly destroyed my career.  

    But he is gone, and I'm still here.  And so will be Clinton and so many other good women -- and men.  So we have to keep speaking out about injustice.

    And we have to keep speaking out about it especially when it comes from so-called "liberals," or they will further destroy what it means -- and what a real liberal resurgence can mean for this country.  Hang in there.


    Again, thank you. (5.00 / 8) (#66)
    by sarahfdavis on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 06:11:15 PM EST
    I live in San Francisco so believe it or not, my view isn't very popular. I have had whispering conversations with a few women however. The bond we have is that we've all been bullied by Obama supporters and heard misogynistic slurs against Hillary. I was actually called a racist by an old friend. It's been unbelievable. I can tell that you're feeling my distress. Your personal words to me are really helpful at this moment.

    I live in the pseudo-Frisco of my town (5.00 / 6) (#93)
    by Cream City on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 07:03:20 PM EST
    (and well I know that would make those in your lovely town laugh!), i.e., the liberal area stuck in the '60s, as we say, and we like it that way.

    But not this year.  Yes, I have seen very little of some "friends" who pulled that sort of crap, too.  So they were little loss, actually, but it is a loss.  One of whom I thought highly pulled a Claire McCaskill and told me that her children knew better than us.  I know her children, all too well.  Believe me, I wouldn't count on them for anything.:-)

    I have found a return to the tried-and-true-and trusty smart women of earlier years who have been through the sexism and misogyny and see through, so easily, the claims of the so-called New Dems.  Yes, we have seen their sort before in the '60s, too.

    There's a reason I come to TL, too.  Too much of our lives has been made unsafe for thinking women and men.  How they got through McCarthyism without the internet, I dunno.  But it has been educational that way for me.  So let's try to see this all as a learning moment -- and may it only be momentary!


    And I live in NYC. I know there are a lot of HRC supporters. But I don't see them. (maybe when I go back to teaching next week?)

    It's impossible to talk about misogyny, about racism, about any kind of things like racism. Even if you don't bring up Hillary or Obama or the election at all. That whole discourse is "off the table".

    Worse, trying to discuss misogyny or sexism brings up the worst kind of garbage that I can recall, from the most unexpected people.

    I feel sick about it.


    Frisco is not San Francisco (none / 0) (#126)
    by Prabhata on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 08:18:16 PM EST
    True San Franciscans do not call their city Frisco.

    Please don't call it Frisco (none / 0) (#131)
    by facta non verba on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 08:27:12 PM EST
    It's SF or San Fran or San Francisco but never ever Frisco.

    A San Franciscan


    yeah we do! (none / 0) (#146)
    by sarahfdavis on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 08:45:52 PM EST
    It's a joke to make fun of tourists.
    we also say "the mish" to make fun of hipsters that think they're cool progressives livin' in the mission district.
    we also call the tenderloin (the seedy edge of downtown) the wine country. we also call nob hill - snob hill. pacific heights - specific whites. noe valley - snowy valley.

    oh my goodness I have been (5.00 / 2) (#121)
    by fly on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 08:08:42 PM EST
    called a racist as well..and I am married to a dual minority and my son is a dual minority!!..and I have been called the nastiest names..misogynist names I thought were retired about women in the 60's! I have spent a lifetime working for minorities..and I have been called a racist.

    I just wonder how much strength I have left to keep fighting  for those who keep working against their own best interests.


    You are not alone in SF (5.00 / 1) (#125)
    by Prabhata on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 08:16:36 PM EST
    I live in SF too.  I couldn't even put a sign for Hillary because I have two AA neighbors and I decided not to advertise my choice.  I will not vote for the Democratic ticket.

    It is sad to see so many die-hard Obama (5.00 / 0) (#158)
    by kenosharick on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:03:07 PM EST
    supporters STILL more concerned about Hillary than their actual opponent. If they lose, this will be a large part of the reason.

    Many Obama supporters are wingnuts of left (5.00 / 0) (#187)
    by pluege on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:28:02 AM EST
    Their obsession with everything Clinton boarders on psychotic.

    Hi! (none / 0) (#147)
    by sarahfdavis on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 08:47:24 PM EST
    I live in Noe Valley. You?

    Invasion of the Body Snatcher. (none / 0) (#132)
    by zfran on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 08:27:35 PM EST
    I said it back during the primaries when we'd hear the same things from Obama supporters. Don't go to sleep!!!!!!

    What disrespect? (none / 0) (#98)
    by Realleft on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 07:14:29 PM EST
    What are you talking about?

    Couldn't (none / 0) (#156)
    by tek on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:01:44 PM EST
    have said it better.  It's not revenge, it's just good sense to oppose Obama.

    Needless to say, Hillary has emerged (5.00 / 6) (#69)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 06:13:43 PM EST
    the real winner in this campaign and sane people are not listening to anything derogatory said about her.  She asked me again today to back behind obama....ain't gonna happen as long as obama, brazile, dean, reid, and pelosi, et al think quashing democracy is en vogue.  Love ya Hillary, but no can do!!

    As for Hunter Thompson, I am sure he would be asking a great big ole WTF???


    I hear ya :) (5.00 / 12) (#89)
    by kempis on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 07:00:15 PM EST
    If Senator Clinton asked me to wear a pantsuit for the country, I would do so.  I would give up my jeans and sweats.  That is a major sacrifice for me.

    A woman after my own heart. I've taught in jeans and t-shirts and sweatshirts for so many years that I have one wedding/funeral outfit.

    And I know what you mean. I am stunned by how powerfully Hillary connected with me and with 18 million others. I knew she was smart; I had no idea that she would be such an inspiring and warm leader. And I bet she's a bit surprised at the response, too.

    It's just a damned shame that the leftblogs and MSNBC and other media ran with the old memes laid down by the rightwingnuts back in the 90s: Hillary as Cruella de Ville--and worse that some people who call themselves Democrats were silly enough to be whipped up into anti-Hillary hysteria by them. A damned shame. We could be celebrating the most exciting, most substantial and most competent nominee in my lifetime.


    Like you said, (5.00 / 2) (#122)
    by 0 politico on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 08:10:51 PM EST
    you're a voter.  So am I and a lot of others.  And their is no god written rule that says voters have to vote how the party leaders want them to.

    Remember that in November!


    You Are Not Helping Clinton (2.66 / 3) (#84)
    by Jade Jordan on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 06:44:27 PM EST
    In 2012 Clinton will either run for reelection to the Senate or will run again for the Presidency.

    Imagine what would happen if a large segment of the Obamaniacs hold a grudge or knuckledrag and refuse to vote for her.

    She will lose.  She needs you to support the party or the retaliation will cost her any future election.


    Jade, sweetie, you're not helping Obama (5.00 / 9) (#95)
    by Cream City on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 07:06:30 PM EST
    and I know that's what really matters to you.

    By 2012, perhaps you will have improved your reading comprehension and can review my message.  Let me put it this way.  If I won't follow blindly for Clinton, why in h*ll would I follow you with your comments here?  I don't even know who the h*ll you are.  You well could be a 12-year-old pubescent boy who is having his first mancrush on Obama.   Jeesh.  Think.


    I can't image their attention spans could last (5.00 / 8) (#103)
    by Valhalla on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 07:20:56 PM EST
    that long.

    This is totally unscientific, but Air America did a survey of their listeners about the election.  92% of them are voting for Obama (no big surprise).  But when asked who they'd vote for in 2012 if Obama loses in 2008, the top choice was Hillary.  Obama was 5th.  This is at Air America.

    And Clinton is still outpolling McCain against Obama.

    If Obama wins this year, it will be because of people supporting the party, not Obama.  Already there's much buyer's remorse.

    And trust me, many, many of the SDs that put him over the line did it because they saw dollar signs for their donor lists; if Obama turns out to be a loser in November, they will disappear quicker than ice in hell.  Suddenly all sorts of them will have never supported Obama, not really, it was just for the unity, they never really thought he could win.  Any major loss, not just for politicians, finds scores of people suddenly backed the other guy (gal), bc no one wants to be attached to the losing side.

    If you haven't seen that phenomenon yet, you very well might.  I've seen it and it isn't pretty.  


    you're right (5.00 / 4) (#114)
    by ccpup on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 07:43:05 PM EST
    and Hillary knows this.  Why do you think she's bending over backwards to hit the stump for Obama?  Because when she hits the stump for him, she also hits the stump -- and a few fundraisers -- for downticket Dems who are suddenly discovering the Obama Gravy Train isn't as overflowing as they had been promised it would be.

    Hillary's shoring up her support for her inevitable run in 2012.  She and those SDs who know a thing or two about Polls and demographics see the handwriting on the wall and it ain't pointing toward Obama raising his right hand on Inauguration Day.

    But, when her time comes, people will remember her hitting the stump, raising money, getting much needed votes and being someone who came through for them even in the face of ridicule and scorn from Party Elders, the MSM and the Nominee of her own Party.

    This woman is anything but stupid and, unlike some political neophytes who assume the bridges he thoughtlessly and gleefully burns today will somehow magically reappear to help him out tomorrow, knows the value of relationships.  Especially in politics.


    ccpup- it does not matter how hard she works (5.00 / 0) (#162)
    by kenosharick on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:08:27 PM EST
    if Obama loses, many of his supporters will blame Hillary 100%. Ludicrous,I know.

    I think that might be true... (none / 0) (#177)
    by EL seattle on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:21:10 PM EST
    ....if the election were held two weeks from now.  But between now and November, there will be plenty of other things that would share the blame should Obama lose.

    An embarassing flub in a speech that goes viral on YouTube; an unfair-but-brilliantly crafted TV ad by the other side; an unexpected change in world affairs.  The future is unwritten.

    Both sides are evenly matched now, but over the next months anything can happen.  But for most of what can happen, only the certifiably deranged will be able to blame Hillary Clinton for the turn of events.


    Which is why, of course, (5.00 / 2) (#120)
    by oldpro on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 08:04:07 PM EST
    they really, really, REALLY didn't want a roll call vote!

    The rest of us want them on record.


    JadedJordan....surely you jest!! Do you (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 07:22:08 PM EST
    know how many obamamaniacs have said they would never vote for Hillary....try to catch up.  But you are funny...hope it is unintentional

    Jade Jordan is one (5.00 / 1) (#149)
    by waldenpond on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 08:50:54 PM EST
    that said that very thing.  He stated he would vote indie if Clinton was on the ticket. and....

    [Please Obama recognize that the Clinton era needs to be over.]


    Bwaaaah. Jade Jordan is marked now (none / 0) (#181)
    by Cream City on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:48:36 PM EST
    for such a fool.  Thanks for that.

    Of course, it probably will come back under a new name.  But it just won't be able to restrain itself from revealing itself again.  Poor It.


    Thank You - I am Back -Same Name (none / 0) (#197)
    by Jade Jordan on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:50:45 PM EST
    I think everyone should vote for whoever they want to vote for.  There are no good or bad reasons to vote for a candidate.

    One man or woman, one vote.

    I don't get upset when people say they are going to vote for McCain.  It is your right.  I understand that there are many reasons to love and support Hillary.

    I'll vote for who I want to and for me the VP mattered.

    I wish you all the best.


    If Hillary loses because Obama loses (5.00 / 2) (#127)
    by Prabhata on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 08:21:36 PM EST
    Too bad.  The country comes first, and I will vote for the better candidate, McCain.  It's difficult to believe that I've been given an unaccomplished state legislator to vote for POTUS.

    Me too (5.00 / 1) (#137)
    by SueBonnetSue on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 08:36:07 PM EST
    I want my country to survive.  I do not want my children blown to bits because the man in the White House has no idea how to provide national security.  

    I have worked for, and voted for, every democratic candidate since McGovern.  It kills me to say this, but this year I will vote for McCain, for the future of my country.   My country first.  


    Obama (5.00 / 1) (#160)
    by tek on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:05:33 PM EST
    will be such a disaster Democrats will be howling for Hillary, or in other words, Hillary don't need no stinking Obamabots.

    Re-Election bid for Senator (none / 0) (#194)
    by BackFromOhio on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 03:38:34 PM EST
    If Hillary runs for re-election to the Senate from NY, as things stand today, she will win. She won in 2006 with 67% of the vote.  

    "She Has A Knife to Her Throat" (5.00 / 1) (#190)
    by daring grace on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:21:52 AM EST
    I find this kind of attitude about Clinton and her position demeaning to her.


    Because it implies Senator Clinton is in any different a position than any contender for the nominee in her position would be.

    She ran hard.
    She came close.
    But she lost.

    She has a 'knife to her throat'? Well, that may be one way to see it if she is being FORCED to do things she would rather not.

    But that's not the case any more than it is for each of us in our daily work life. Do you ever have to put up with being asked to do things at work you'd rather not, but do anyway because most of the time the work is gratifying and by sometimes going along to get along you may get promoted or a raise etc.?

    She's a savvy politician who knows what she needs to do to further the interests of the party she's committed to as well as her own ambitions.

    It's not a fun position. In fact, sure, it probably rankles like heck right now. But I see her as handling it from strength, negotiating her position to aim for future pursuits. I don't see her as someone held hostage by larger forces. Not at all.


    That's on the convention floor (5.00 / 0) (#27)
    by MichaelGale on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:39:51 PM EST
    Hey if delegates want to make noise with kazoos...go for it.

    It's turning out to be a circus anyway.


    I just found my kazoo (5.00 / 9) (#34)
    by Cream City on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:42:54 PM EST
    seriously, after reading this thread.  I have it at the ready to drown out a lot of bullsh*t on my tv.

    Kazoos are one of the great inventions of all time.  And now Dems hate kazoos, too.  That's it.  Who are these pod people who have replaced the real Dems?


    I met an elderly lady today who (none / 0) (#130)
    by oculus on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 08:25:49 PM EST
    lives near Peoria, IL in a retirement complex.  She told me she is in a kitchen band which is marching in a parade there next week.  She plays the kazoo!

    I'm glad (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by chel2551 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:55:24 PM EST
    Clinton is trying to drag Obama across the finish line.  She's a trooper and one I'd want on my side.

    However, it makes my opinion of Obama even more correct.

    I've never not supported the dem nominee for president.  You guys just don't get it.

    But I sincerely hope you do.


    Is this the 'whip' story? (5.00 / 2) (#86)
    by Valhalla on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 06:52:44 PM EST
    from Politico?  I'm not even sure I believe it, coming from there.

    Even if true, it's for the floor of the convention.  It's not for her supporters, it's for her delegates.

    And the story led to an extremely unfortunate comment about...kazoos, from the Obama campaign.  Let's just say, kazoo sales in the Denver area have skyrocketed in the last few days.

    Given the violence promised by Obama supporters and Donna Brazile, from at least the end of February on,  not to mention the everyday internet threats from that faction on the web, it's not really Clinton's 'supporters' who need whips, methinks.


    Okay, I already liked Denver (none / 0) (#106)
    by Cream City on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 07:26:02 PM EST
    but a town that is ready to cope with a major demand for kazoos is an even better town than I knew.

    Now now, don't let little things (none / 0) (#4)
    by Pegasus on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:14:31 PM EST
    like facts get in the way of a good time.  :)

    good catch (none / 0) (#5)
    by DandyTIger on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:14:53 PM EST
    I stand corrected. Who knew, Fox news mislead me. :-)

    Is this for all Clinton supporters? (none / 0) (#8)
    by EL seattle on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:19:46 PM EST
    Or just for protesters at the Denver convention?

    Clinton's people (5.00 / 6) (#13)
    by waldenpond on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:25:13 PM EST
    [The team, which is being organized by longtime Clinton staffer Craig Smith, is working in conjunction with Obama's floor organizers to help foster the image of a unified front during a roll-call process Clinton herself has described as an emotional "catharsis" for her disappointed supporters.

    "If people get down there on the floor and want to start blowing kazoos and making a scene, we want to make sure we've got people who stand in front of them with Obama signs," said a person involved in the planning.]

    What's wrong with kazoos?  Who cares is they want to cheer Clinton with friggin' kazoos.  Do they really think people would use them to 'buzz boo' Obama?  Obama's people seem paranoid sometimes.

    Good stuff and bad stuff happens at conventions.. pffft.  (Let's just hope the lights don't go out on the podium.)  That would be a tragedy.)


    Perfect. I bet it glows in the dark (5.00 / 2) (#26)
    by Cream City on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:39:01 PM EST
    like one of those suckin' li'l plasticky ponies that my daughter loved but left around the house, where they would freek me out when I came across them in the middle of the night.

    So would all that Barbie stuff that her grandma gave her.  (I took a vow never to perpetrate a Barbie upon my daughter as had been done to me, but that particular enjoyed undermining my attempts to raise feminist children.:-)

    Btw, I just was looking for some Barbie stuff online to illustrate a lecture on the '50s, and I was struck by seeing the circa-1960 stuff again.  Michelle Obama had a makeover to be Jackie, we know.  But she ended up dressed a lot more like Barbie.


    I llike boys better. (5.00 / 4) (#37)
    by Fabian on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:45:54 PM EST
    My son not only picked out a set of glow in the dark planets, but we decked his bedroom ceiling out in little glow in the dark stars too.  That was pretty neat at bedtime.

    ...then I remembered the black light we had.  So that sits on top of the bunk bed and is turned on when the lights go out and then the whole room turns into a glow in the dark galaxy.


    Memories...I bought my son some glow in the dark (5.00 / 3) (#87)
    by DeborahNC on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 06:58:09 PM EST
    stars and planets when he was young and we put them on the ceiling and one wall in his bedroom. I thought it would be soothing for him at night, but I never thought to use a black light on them.

    My son loved those stars, in particular, so I was delighted to find one stuck to the inside of a cabinet in his bathroom the other day. He's away at college now, and seeing that was so comforting and brought back some dear memories.

    Thanks so much for sharing your story. It brought some welcome relief from thinking about this election and the concerns I have for our country. I'm still somewhat 'bitter' and was clinging to the hope Hillary would be VP, but realisticly I knew that it wouldn't happen.

    Hillary is such a bright and courageous person, and I know that she will continue work for policies that help average Americans. I only wish that more people had been able to see all of the positive things about her. sigh.


    I love my boy, a man now (5.00 / 3) (#96)
    by Cream City on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 07:11:53 PM EST
    just as much for so many different toys and memories.  Yes, we had stars on the ceiling.

    But what I've still got is the Legos.  Thousands of Legos.  And every once in a while, he and I have to get them out to relive those Christmas mornings.

    However, he also put me through the awful years of He-Man, Master of the Universe!  Ugh, that cartoon and those action figures with their messages.  So I got his little sister the Princess of Power costume, complete with plastic sword.

    The Goddess of Power is Mom with a Checkbook. :-)  


    Thank you all (5.00 / 2) (#101)
    by themomcat on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 07:20:03 PM EST
    for posting such beautiful memories of your children. When I was little in the early 50's, my Pop found glow in the dark stars and put them on the ceiling of my bedroom. My Pop was a Sci-Fi fan and I used to "borrow" his paperbacks and read by flashlight under the covers. And every so often, i would shine the flashlight on the ceiling, turn it quickly and watch the stars. Thanks for reminding me of my Pop.

    I remember my son and the (5.00 / 1) (#123)
    by Xanthe on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 08:15:31 PM EST
    small cars - Matchbox.  Lordy, he had so many.  I think I gave them away but kept a box which I still have.  At Christmas I still give him one matchbox car (he's almost 40 and looks forward to them) I get them on Ebay and they are expensive - the ones from the 70s.  And I still have that box with the slots.  I like it here - it comforts me.  I wish I had been a better mother -

    Has there ever been a mother (5.00 / 2) (#140)
    by SueBonnetSue on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 08:40:39 PM EST
    Who didn't feel that way?  

    As a girl I would have loved that! (5.00 / 1) (#185)
    by splashy on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 02:45:00 AM EST
    Didn't like dolls of any kind when a child. They creeped me out.

    Bicycles, climbing trees, looking at the stars, now that's what I liked.

    Don't assume that all girls are into dolls. In my family, the women are all more athletic, have spatial abilities, and think of things besides home and family.


    His fascination with planets (none / 0) (#188)
    by Fabian on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 08:43:14 AM EST
    is giving me an excuse to read up on the planets.

    I know which planets have rings (all the "giants"), which have satellites and now I'm learning which ones have magnetospheres.  The densest planets are Mercury(logical) and the Earth(surprising!).  

    Now all I need to do is to figure out how to explain orbital mechanics to a seven year old.  


    Trying to blot somebody out with a sign (5.00 / 7) (#47)
    by Joan in VA on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:53:51 PM EST
    sounds like the start of a scene, not the end.

    That's what it sounded like to me (5.00 / 3) (#70)
    by nycstray on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 06:13:58 PM EST
    also. I'd be none too happy to have my voice silenced by an Obama sign/supporter. And at a nominating convention no less. Heh.

    Yes, yes, yes!! (5.00 / 2) (#76)
    by befuddledvoter on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 06:26:46 PM EST
    I would be furious if someone tried to stiffle my First Amendment rights at the convention of all places -the very essence of political speech!  Say it ain't so!!

    If all this is true, this is VERY provocative.  It will not work.


    Next they will be burning the Kazoos (5.00 / 3) (#81)
    by BarnBabe on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 06:41:56 PM EST
    I long for the days of conventions where it was real. This one will be more Disneyland one than ever. The happiest place on earth. Obama World complete with little blue birds of happiness pooping on Hillary signs.

    Given the level of CDS... (5.00 / 6) (#65)
    by p lukasiak on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 06:08:12 PM EST
    ...among Obama supporters, the real problem would have been with them -- one suspects that a lot of the delegates, and a whole lot of the people who have floor passes but are not delegates, are hard core Obama supporters who are new to the political process.   We've seen how these people act on-line, and if they came close to acting like that at the convention, it would be 1968 all over again.

    And what this story really is, is spin.  Team Obama needs whips to keep its troops from starting a problem -- and Team Clinton needs its own whips to prevent Clinton supporters from reacting to provocation from obnoxious Obots.

    The only thing that has to fear from Clinton supporters is that they will sit on their hands.... even among those of Clinton's supporters who are seriously pissed. its clear that they plan to 'protest' theough the ballot box.


    So it will be a repeat of the caucus behavior (5.00 / 4) (#97)
    by Cream City on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 07:14:11 PM EST
    but before the cameras.  Nice.

    Of course, the msm will not want to put that on tv.  But the people have cell-phone cameras and youtube now.  This might just make for something watchable in this campaign for the first time in a long time.


    Yea, the camera people have probably been advised (5.00 / 1) (#108)
    by DeborahNC on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 07:30:29 PM EST
    to turn the cameras away from the rabble-rousers. I hope that TV viewers get to see such controlling tactics, if it does happen.

    Also, I hope that folks get to see the new documentary about caucus fraud. I saw a preview last night and it would indeed open some eyes for those not paying much attention.


    Tell me more about that documentary! (5.00 / 1) (#144)
    by Cream City on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 08:44:28 PM EST
    I'm googling, too -- but please tell more.  Or did I miss it in comments from you earlier?

    I'm so glad someone did this.  I've collected accounts since Iowa that I found in local papers from state to state, and it's appalling.  But it gave me a handy list of states where I never will live.


    Someone provided this earlier (none / 0) (#164)
    by waldenpond on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:13:23 PM EST
    I haven't watched it yet. video

    Thank you. It needs to be shown (5.00 / 1) (#180)
    by Cream City on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:45:25 PM EST
    at the Dem Convention.  I hope.

    To quote the last line:

    This whole convention is wrong.

    Cream, glad waldenpond got you that link. I've (none / 0) (#184)
    by DeborahNC on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 01:55:22 AM EST
    read numerous accounts before, but seeing the precinct workers describe their experiences, with some still in seeming disbelief, gave all of it a whole new meaning.

    And you're right, it is appalling, and worse. It's not a democracy anymore.


    They'll (none / 0) (#163)
    by tek on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:09:25 PM EST
    probably confiscate everybody's cell phones when they walk in.  We had that happen on a ferry at Coronado, CA during the 9/11 kerfuffle.

    I know that good stuff and bad stuff... (none / 0) (#24)
    by EL seattle on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:38:39 PM EST
    ..have always happened at conventions, and always will.  But how many TV network cameras will be roaming the crowd for signs of bad stuff this year?  

    I'm concerned that this convention will have more than a few media folks who've always dreampt of being Dan Rather, hauled down by security on live TV while covering the big story.  These media Walter Mitty's might not all be the best models of professional journalistic behavior this week.


    I don't think that's going to happen..... (5.00 / 2) (#42)
    by Maria Garcia on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:47:54 PM EST
    ...they're going to be in total fanboy mode. Just like they were at Repubican conventions during the Reagan era. They are in love.

    Maybe Not (none / 0) (#191)
    by daring grace on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:33:54 AM EST
    They media are going to be looking for signs of drama and the most likely place they will go to find it will be in the interface of Clinton and Obama supporters.

    I wouldn't be surprised if Clinton people get lots of on air coverage during the convention.


    Does playing a kazoo count as bad? (5.00 / 3) (#71)
    by lambert on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 06:15:30 PM EST
    How could it?!

    Maybe it's like... (none / 0) (#113)
    by EL seattle on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 07:40:40 PM EST
    ... the definition of a gentleman as being "someone who knows how to play the accordian...but doesn't."

    (Seriously though, I guess a kazoo could be used in a display of bad manners, but so can the human voice.)


    Free Speech, I guess with Obama, (5.00 / 2) (#129)
    by zfran on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 08:25:33 PM EST
    is a thing of the past. For those who remember free speech, savor those moments.

    I don't care what Obama knows (5.00 / 9) (#6)
    by angie on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:17:53 PM EST
    picking Biden is the absolute last straw for me personally-- Biden was complicit in the Anita Hill debacle and he pushed for the despicable bankruptcy law overhaul. I knew I was voting NotMcCain, but now I'm also voting NotObama.

    Remember (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by Politalkix on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:21:28 PM EST
    John McCain voted to confirm Clarence Thomas.

    Yeah (5.00 / 6) (#39)
    by massdem on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:46:23 PM EST
    we know Obama wouldn't have confirmed Justice Thomas because he didn't think he was an exp....
    I mean he wasn't a strong enough jurist.

    as did biden... you're not helping n/t (3.00 / 2) (#16)
    by DandyTIger on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:28:44 PM EST
    You are wrong (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by Politalkix on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:38:46 PM EST
    Biden voted against Clarence Thomas's appointment to the SC

    Eventually he voted (5.00 / 8) (#41)
    by Andy08 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:46:29 PM EST
    against it but as Chairman of the Committee it was shameful how he handled the Anita Hill's allegations. This is Fron todays NYTimes :

    Mr. Biden at the time was chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee. And while the Delaware Democrat ultimately voted against confirming Mr. Thomas, he was widely criticized by liberal legal advocates and women's groups as having mismanaged the allegations of sexual harassment made by Ms. Hill against her former employer, Mr. Thomas, at the Department of Education and at the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, at those hearings.

    It was another time and another place, but the issues of race, gender and politics intersected in a volatile way that still may hold resonance today, especially given the interplay of those themes (granted in entirely different ways) during the epic primary battle between Mr. Obama and Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton.

    Not good, not good at all.


    There is video, and it will surface again (5.00 / 10) (#50)
    by Cream City on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:56:01 PM EST
    for those who do not recall it, were not paying attention, were too young to see.

    I don't need the video.  Every minute of those hearings still plays in my head.

    Biden had the authority as chair to stop the travesty, like nothing seen since the public pillorying in the Salem witch hunts.  Biden had the authority as chair to call the corroborating witness who was in the hall.  Biden had the authority to do what a real liberal would have done to save the Supremem Court of this country from Clarence Thomas.

    Biden did not.  And it's all on video, and it will be playing in 527 spots on your tv's soon, I bet.


    Here's a great summary of Biden's (5.00 / 6) (#60)
    by robrecht on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 06:04:36 PM EST
    poor leadership and even fabricative misprepresentation of events: Link

    I also remember it every well (5.00 / 5) (#64)
    by Dr Molly on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 06:07:43 PM EST
    It was plain sickening what they did to that woman.

    Dr. M, Sickening is indeed the appropriate word! (5.00 / 3) (#92)
    by DeborahNC on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 07:02:40 PM EST
    Me too, I remember (5.00 / 4) (#104)
    by Andy08 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 07:21:58 PM EST
    those hearings and still cringe at the travesty they were. What a sham...

    Biden, a Catholic, is resoundingly (none / 0) (#134)
    by oculus on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 08:31:54 PM EST
    pro choice, however.  Yes, I know, DRARv.W. I was underwhelmed w/Ted Kennedy's conduct and appearance during the Thomas hrgs. also.  But, hey, who's perfect?

    Wrong - Biden did not vote to (5.00 / 4) (#43)
    by inclusiveheart on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:48:51 PM EST
    confirm Thomas.

    It is fine if people have their issues with that whole Thomas hearings thing - understandable - I do too - but don't misrepresent the facts.

    He voted against Thomas:

    Senate Roll Call No. 220 1991


    Biden voted against him, (5.00 / 9) (#57)
    by alsace on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 06:01:40 PM EST
    but as chairman of the Judiciary Committee he could - and should - have prevented it from going to the Senate floor.  He didn't have the cojones to derail a black nominee, no matter how poor the resume.  So he is more responsible than anyone except pappy Bush for the Justice Obama holds up as someone he'd not nominate.

    He really is Mr. Divider (5.00 / 7) (#10)
    by sarahfdavis on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:21:38 PM EST
    How many more teeth do we have to get bashed in.
    Liberals posing as the civil rights champions then wiping their shoes off on women is infuriating. In some ways it's worse than looking at smug snotty bush and snarling cheney.
    Seeing their big white teeth grins honestly makes me ill.

    Bashing in Teeth? (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by Brillo on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:34:13 PM EST
    From NOW this morning:
    Senator Hillary Clinton was our first choice, and that of 18 million primary voters, but presumptive Democratic nominee Senator Barack Obama's pick, Joe Biden, is a friend of women and a strong selection for Vice President. Biden authored and championed the landmark 1994 Violence Against Women Act (VAWA), winning bipartisan support and unprecedented funding for prevention, shelter and safety. VAWA has twice been reauthorized, each time with increased protections for survivors of violence.

    NOW welcomes this important opportunity for one of our champions to participate in a national dialogue around issues that are facing our country and our world. We know that Sen. Biden will bring the crucial issue of violence prevention to the forefront as he travels the country discussing issues of concern to voters, especially women voters.

    Biden's spent his whole career fighting for women on this issue.  And you're gonna talk about him 'bashing in teeth' and "wiping his shoes off" on women?

    I think she was referring to Obama. (5.00 / 0) (#22)
    by nycstray on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:36:20 PM EST
    I think... (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by Brillo on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:40:16 PM EST
    It was clear she was referring to both.  Although I'd take issue with the image of Obama 'bashing teeth in' too I suppose.  

    heh, Divider and wiping off shoes (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by nycstray on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 06:01:32 PM EST
    = Obama to me  ;)

    you're not on the other end of it (5.00 / 4) (#59)
    by sarahfdavis on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 06:03:44 PM EST
    so how the f*ck would you know what it feels like.
    more dismissiveness from the obama yes we can be unempathetic we're the bullies we've been waiting for crowd.

    How... (5.00 / 2) (#73)
    by Brillo on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 06:16:05 PM EST
    Do you know what I've been on the other end of?

    I have no idea (5.00 / 4) (#78)
    by sarahfdavis on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 06:29:25 PM EST
    i was referring to you saying that you take issue with the statement that Obama was bashing our teeth in.
    My response was that you aren't on the opposite end of what feels like having our teeth bashed in. You are not a "bitter knitter" or "dead-ender" or a member of the "dry p*ssy demographic" as we've been so respectfully called my Obama supporters and pundits.

    Don't Attack Me... (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by Brillo on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 07:48:39 PM EST
    For what others have said or done.  Please.  You have no idea who I am apart from what... 500 words on a blog?

    10 comments per day (none / 0) (#142)
    by waldenpond on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 08:41:51 PM EST
    Reminder... new commenters (those less than 30 days) are limited to 10 comments per day.  You are at 17.  Please adhere to the 10 comment rule.  Thanks.

    Dry p*ssy demographic? (none / 0) (#135)
    by Xanthe on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 08:32:04 PM EST
    that's out there?  Charming.  Even the Viagra crowd uses it?  Sorry to waste space but I am mildly shocked.

    Why, yes. (5.00 / 7) (#32)
    by hitchhiker on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:42:27 PM EST
    I am.

    Biden gave us Clarence Thomas.  He was the guy standing between the push from the right to get Thomas on the court and the push from the left to put the brakes on and figure out what Bush I was selling.

    He got rolled, and we got Thomas.  Should we just forget about that?  I'm sick of getting rolled by the people we trusted to have our backs.


    You bet. And he made Alito -- Alito! (5.00 / 5) (#40)
    by Cream City on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:46:26 PM EST
    look like a buddy.  

    And let us remember that one of the traditional tasks for a vice president is to take on the oversight of SCOTUS picks and shepherd them -- speaking of Anita's sheeple:-) -- through the process.

    As if we didn't already know that this would be a problematic Prez pick re SCOTUS, putting Biden on the ticket with his past on two of the nine (at least: I will be learning more) who are the worst ought to raise the hair on the back of our necks.


    It Happens... (5.00 / 0) (#46)
    by Brillo on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:52:29 PM EST
    To everyone.  I'm not even remotely happy with some of his votes, but I'd say the same of just about everyone you could name.  

    And hey, at least he stopped Bork and got us Kennedy instead, right?  ;)  


    And what was your opinion about (5.00 / 0) (#52)
    by chel2551 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:58:40 PM EST
    the AUMF vote when it concerned Hillary?

    Do tell.

    But please don't pretend, like others have, that you supported her in the primary.

    No one believes that.


    I think... (5.00 / 0) (#58)
    by Brillo on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 06:02:43 PM EST
    It was political suicide to oppose it, and it was a stupid reason to not support her.  You done trying to play gotcha with me?

    Gotcha? (5.00 / 0) (#68)
    by chel2551 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 06:12:17 PM EST
    You really do not get it.

    Not remotely happy. (5.00 / 0) (#72)
    by chel2551 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 06:15:41 PM EST
    Well, that's good.

    But some of us don't like Obama as presidential material, and Biden brings zero to that table.


    10 comments per day (none / 0) (#124)
    by waldenpond on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 08:15:41 PM EST
    New commenters (those less than 30 days) are limited to 10 comments per 24 hours.  You are at 18, yesterday you had 22.  Please adhere to the 10 comment rule.

    Whatever. (none / 0) (#118)
    by hitchhiker on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 07:59:01 PM EST
    You don't want to acknowledge that Bidien stuck us with Thomas.  Got it.  Doesn't change the fact, but makes everyone feel better. Fine with me.

    I'm voting for Obama because he's marginally better than his opponent.  I hope I'm not required to genuflect in the voting booth.


    Please (5.00 / 2) (#38)
    by MichaelGale on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:45:59 PM EST
    do a little homework on Biden and women and court appointments.

    Although I am very interested to hear from Jill Biden and what HER thoughts are about the place for women.


    No, Biden has not spent his whole career (5.00 / 5) (#44)
    by Cream City on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:51:00 PM EST
    working for women's issues.  After what he did in 1991, he had to get back his cred, which he started to do with the Violence on Women Act.

    That's all.  The Anita Hill hearing and the VoW Act both were political acts on his part.  The one does not cancel out the other.  

    And those of us know anything at all know that the VoW Act actually was the work of hundreds of thousands of women who fought like h*ll for it, after being there for women who went through h*ll.

    Bottom line:  I have yet to see any male politician actually initiate any of the truly good legislation for women.  Because it always is women who have had to win it.  With our votes and much else.

    So I will use my vote again this year.  You bet.


    1990. (3.25 / 4) (#53)
    by Brillo on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 06:00:20 PM EST
    He and Boxer wrote, and put forth the initial proposal in 1990, before the Hill hearings.  I don't think anyone actually thinks it was a singular effort on his part.  

    And say what you want about political motivations, talking about him bashing in teeth, and wiping his feet on women is totally out of line.  


    Biden put his name on it 1990 -- but (5.00 / 3) (#62)
    by Cream City on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 06:05:55 PM EST
    you must know that he did not really get behind it to get it done until after the Hill hearings.

    So it was passed in 1994.


    Adn you get a 1 (5.00 / 0) (#63)
    by Cream City on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 06:06:36 PM EST
    for saying that I said what I never said.

    You lie.


    What? (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by Brillo on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 06:18:22 PM EST
    What did I lie about?  I think it's more likely one of us misunderstood the other, or got posters mixed up.  But feel free to rate me however...

    I'm thinking you have a awfully short memory. (5.00 / 3) (#100)
    by rise hillary rise on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 07:17:49 PM EST
    Biden's sponsorship of that bill does NOT excuse his execrable treatment of Anita Hill, not its result:alleged Justice Clarence Thomas.

    I realize that Obama was only about 3 years old when Biden took down Hill, but really, that's not a credible defense in my book.


    September and October are (5.00 / 12) (#12)
    by cawaltz on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:22:22 PM EST
    looking like a good time to catch up on some reading, clean out the closets, reflect on life, wash your hair, or anything else that doesn't have a darn thing to do with the presidency.

    I hear that... (5.00 / 7) (#48)
    by justinboston2008 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:55:18 PM EST
    I planned on spending my nights and weekends working the doors in NH for Hillary. I think I might take a pottery class.

    I'm campaigning local... (5.00 / 4) (#136)
    by oldpro on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 08:33:14 PM EST
    reelecting a county commissioner and a governor, planning to read novels and eat chocolates with an occasional Irish coffee to celebrate NOT watching, except from the sidelines, with no investment in the outcome.

    First time in 55 adult acivist years.



    I'm working against the anti-gay marriage bill (5.00 / 1) (#189)
    by allimom99 on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 09:40:09 AM EST
    here in CA. We can still make a difference downticket - it's really all that's left to us at this point. Such a waste of so many politically active people to have such a lame candidate for Prez. I'm sure all the kids with your text messages will be ready to do what it takes. NOT. A great many of them don't know about any of the other races/issues being contested in Nov. Not a good thing.

    So what will the voter turnout be (5.00 / 2) (#11)
    by dead dancer on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:21:56 PM EST
    After record turnouts (I think) for the dem primaries, I wonder if we might see a less than  stellar head count for the general - at least those voting for the O/B ticket.

    What a giant let down.

    1Billion dollars for Georgia. LMFAO: but probably soon to be CryingMFAO.

    Obama isn't stupid (5.00 / 0) (#14)
    by lentinel on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:26:12 PM EST
    Doing something stupid doesn't mean that he's stupid.
    He's just doing and saying stupid things.
    There are a lot of people out there doing stupid things who aren't stupid. Bush isn't stupid. Cheney isn't stupid. Pelosi isn't stupid.
    Nobody's stupid. Everybody's really bright. Except, maybe, us.

    Well... (5.00 / 2) (#28)
    by leftofcenter on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:39:52 PM EST
    I'm sure Obama isn't stupid.

    I'm sure Pelosi is actually quite intelligent, just a bit in over her head.

    I'm sure Cheney isn't stupid, he's just an evil genius.

    But Bush?  Can't find a cogent sentence to save his life Bush?  Uses ranch analogies to explain foreign diplomacy Bush?  Couldn't run an oil company even with billions from daddies friends Bush?  Bush is stupid...make no mistake.


    Oh yeah... (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by lentinel on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:51:19 PM EST
    Bush is real stupid.
    That's how he has gotten everything he wanted.
    War. Lot's of money. Useless weapons systems. Every crappy nominee to the Supreme Court.
    I'm not saying he isn't dumb, just that he isn't stupid.

    I am also saying that we, the people, are really and truly stupid to go on pretending we have a two party system, that "our vote counts" ... and the rest of the jive that we are fed by the people who control our destinies.


    Dumb and Dumber (none / 0) (#67)
    by cawaltz on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 06:11:52 PM EST
    The official nicknames for Mr. 25% and his good friends in Congress, who clock in around 19% on a good day.

    I think the most fun this campaign season (none / 0) (#166)
    by Grace on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:31:51 PM EST
    has been when they replay old Dan Quayle tapes.  Dan Quayle was incredibly dumb.  The "potatoe" thing still makes me laugh.  

    They mentioned tonight (I think it was CNN) that Dan Quayle is the only living VP who has never run for the Presidency.  


    Stupid is as stupid does (none / 0) (#148)
    by SueBonnetSue on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 08:50:32 PM EST
    Your friend,

    We're all from Lake Wobegon and all above average.


    Welp... (5.00 / 2) (#15)
    by Idunn on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:28:01 PM EST
    At least with Biden we might get a few laughs.

    (see, I can TOO find a bright side in all this!)

    Yeh, the yuks already have begun (5.00 / 0) (#31)
    by Cream City on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:41:13 PM EST
    just based on his past, which offers enough to entertain us 24/7 for a week.  And I give it less than a week before he goes off the teleprompter, off script.  He just can't stick to it, that is a certainty.  

    Unexcited just like you Anita. (5.00 / 0) (#19)
    by Maria Garcia on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:32:04 PM EST
    It must be strange to be there. Are people tense or does everyone think its going to be a unity party?

    Biden, Spector, Kennedy & Anita Hill... (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by SunnyLC on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:38:33 PM EST
    A repeat with Hillary Clinton, this time...

    Maybe it's just me... (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by WakeLtd on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:40:52 PM EST
    I'm  still trying to get my head around this 3AM  text message "announcement". Is there some level on which this makes sense? It's just seems <provide expletive> weird. And not weird for any good reason. Just plain goofy. I know it is not really important with the convention coming next week. Just seemed to kick off things on a bizarre and yet bland note.

    That ad just really burned him (5.00 / 2) (#88)
    by catfish on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 06:59:21 PM EST
    it was the mildest attack ad I've seen in years. But it must have stuck in his mind.

    Also weird that he would wake up his supporters in the middle of the night. Many people jump up when their cell phone rings.


    Must Be The Ravers (5.00 / 1) (#115)
    by Blue Jean on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 07:43:54 PM EST
    Who stay up all night partying; they got the first chance to say "Oh, it's Biden." to their fellow ravers, so that's why Kos thinks it's "The best roll out evah!"

    Hey, the partiers got a jump on the people who are square enough to be asleep at 3:30 am! Woo-hoo! ;-/


    Just wait until (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by lilburro on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:42:47 PM EST
    they pen up our fellow liberals...then it will be REALLY weird.

    where is the intelligence (5.00 / 9) (#35)
    by p lukasiak on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:44:24 PM EST
    Obama isn't stupid. Surely he knows something we don't. Hopefully all those cell phone numbers that he collected for the announcement will come in handy on election day.

    Everyone keeps telling me that Obama is so smart, but I have never seen him show much in the way of what I consider "intelligence."  His primary aptitude seems to be in sounding thoughtful and intelligent -- but when I pay attention, what I hear is pandering, cliches and meaningless drivel lacking focus or insight.

    What Obama "knows that we don't is easy" to surmise... Obama never had a general election strategy other than being the person without an "R" next to his name.   And given the themes that his campaign was promoting over the last month, the GE plan was going to be to run against 'the same old Washington politics' (and "same" and especially "old" were the key words.)  The fact that Biden does not fit into that theme at all suggests that Biden was (as I've said elsewhere)"triage" -- he was brought in at the last moment to stop the campaign from red-lining, despite the fact that his nomination causes all sorts of problems that will (but, most importantly can) be addressed later.

    What Obama knows and we can surmise is that internal polling was showing two weeks ago what this weeks spate of bad news polls revealed -- voters were turning away from Obama in significant numbers.  And I'd suggest that the high percentage of 'undecided' voters held even worse news -- focus groups of undecided voters showed that confidence in Obama's judgment was tanking, and that most of these "undecideds" were people who were inclined to vote Democratic this year, but simply did not believe that Obama stood for anything at all.

    As soon as a candidate is viewed skeptically by most people, there isn't much you can do to get credibility back -- Hillary showed she could do it, but she's been working at it for eight years.  Biden was chosen because he was well-known and available -- picking a little known candidate would have simply excerbated the problem.

    (As to why not Hillary -- there is obviously a lot of CDS in Team Obama, and it would have been a very tough sell to begin with.  I suspect that at least feelers were put out to Clinton in the last two weeks, and the answer came back "only if I can run my campaign myself".   In Obamaworld, that would have been the end of any consideration of Hillary Clinton.

    not smart, just sounds it (5.00 / 6) (#61)
    by lmv on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 06:05:24 PM EST
    I agree.  I'm yet to hear an Obama answer sans teleprompter that sounds intelligent.  

    In the corporate world, you see these types all the time.  They're charming and good-looking and we want to like them.  But, over time, we realize that they aren't saying anything meaningful, just dropping a few buzz words in here and there to sound smart.

    What really bothers me is this.  Obama seems to have no heart.  His answers show an emotional detachment.  It makes me wonder if he cares about anyone but Obama.  That scares me.


    Spot on. (5.00 / 2) (#102)
    by Cream City on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 07:20:33 PM EST
    exactly (5.00 / 2) (#109)
    by ccpup on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 07:32:51 PM EST
    you find that a lot with Hollywood producers out in LA.  They talk a good game, reel off names and places and grosses of movies they claim to have had a "strong hand in", as they say.  But when you stop and listen to what they're actually SAYING, it's much closer to a desperate plea for a job than it is a position of strength.

    I suspect that Obama is secretly terrified we'll find him out for being as inexperienced as his resume and his life tell us he is before he can sit in the Big Chair.  Not that he's dishonest.  I just think he's treading water as fast as he can trying to stay afloat in a Game he thought he could handle, but is becoming more and more grueling by the day.

    I don't think he realized the WORK this would take and, as the debates approach, he's finding himself knowing much less than he assumed he did.  I don't see confidence in his eyes or demeanor.  I see quiet panic and fear.


    In all honesty - right now my biggest (5.00 / 2) (#51)
    by inclusiveheart on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:56:26 PM EST
    worry is that McCain would be the kind of guy who'd put people like Hunter in jail just for writing a book.

    I am less than thrilled with Biden's tough on crime stuff - but I really feel like right now we are probably relegated to hoping that the definition of what is a crime will not be even further expanded than it already has been in the last eight years.

    Heh. (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by chel2551 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 06:00:46 PM EST
    but I really feel like right now we are probably relegated to hoping that the definition of what is a crime will not be even further expanded than it already has been in the last eight years.

    With the help of democrats like Joe Biden.



    At least he voted against FISA. (5.00 / 2) (#112)
    by inclusiveheart on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 07:39:35 PM EST

    Neither our presidential nor VP nominees (5.00 / 2) (#74)
    by DemForever on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 06:16:31 PM EST
    have traditionally been particularly great on civil liberty and crime issues, unfortunately.  Biden is in the same mold.  

    I remember one guy who declined to stop the death penalty for a severely mentally impaired inmate.

    Dems continue to be obsessed with not being seen as soft on crime

    Who Only Became Mentally Retarded (5.00 / 0) (#117)
    by Blue Jean on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 07:48:55 PM EST
    Because he blew away half his brain when he tried to kill himself, after he murdered one man and one police officer.  Looks to me like executing him was just finishing the job he'd already started.  Kudos to that Dem.

    10 comments per day (none / 0) (#168)
    by waldenpond on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:38:28 PM EST
    Reminder: new commenters (those less than 30 days) are limited to 10 comments per day.  You are at 14.  Thanks.

    Thanks, didn't realize. Have a good one (5.00 / 2) (#170)
    by DemForever on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:48:47 PM EST
    Four years ago I did not mind McCain (5.00 / 4) (#77)
    by befuddledvoter on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 06:28:27 PM EST
    Now I do.  I cannot believe these are the best two candidates this democracy could come up with.  Something is very wrong!!  WTF?

    Same as it ever was (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by robrecht on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 06:31:31 PM EST
    From "yawn" to "yay" (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by s5 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 06:39:37 PM EST
    My initial reaction about Biden was "yawn", but I've been reading up on him, and I think he's actually a solid pick. What caught my eye in particular is that he commutes by train from Delaware to DC every day (and yes, this will probably get repeated endlessly between now and November, but I think it speaks volumes). He's been a champion for Amtrak, and would almost certainly bring rail to the forefront as an issue. His son is even on Amtrak's board. If he accomplishes nothing else, advancing rail in the US would be an enormous improvement to the environment and everyone's quality of life.

    What's interesting is that Biden's other son is getting deployed to Iraq. For the first time in maybe ever, war and the lives of people who face it will be something that our policy makers will personally feel. I think that would be an important change that's been missing for the last eight years.

    He's definitely not perfect, and I would have preferred Clark or Hillary. But here we are.

    McCain's son is already over there (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by nycstray on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 07:01:12 PM EST
    and I doubt he's the only one in congress with a kid on active duty.

    Joe's bio says (2.00 / 0) (#157)
    by SueBonnetSue on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:02:52 PM EST
    His son is scheduled to be deployed with his guard troop to Iraq in October, 2008.  He is currently the attorney general in Delaware.  He is in the JAG corp and will be deployed as a lawyer.  Not exactly fighting on the front lines of freedom.  

    I find it very telling... (5.00 / 0) (#165)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:13:34 PM EST
    ...that you seem to feel that uprooting one's life to serve their county is not worthy of our respect.  EVERYONE is at risk--every single minute of every single day in the he*l hole that is Iraq.

    Way to support the troops.


    agreed with one exception (none / 0) (#173)
    by Dadler on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:07:42 PM EST
    Nothing being done in Iraq is serving the interests of this country.  Just the opposite, I would argue.  That is what makes it more awful.  Sending people to risk their lives in a war that has only harmed this nation, and only could, is unforgivable.  

    not to suggest... (none / 0) (#174)
    by Dadler on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:10:31 PM EST
    ...that individual soliders don't engage in honorable and brave acts every day, simply that the war itself, the invading of a nation that did nothing to us and posed no danger to us, is, again, unforgivable and flies in the face (spits in it) of everything "serving our country" should mean.  Serving the interests of the neo-cons and the military-industrial complex is ultimately what it's about.

    Dadler... (none / 0) (#179)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:27:18 PM EST
    ...I agree 100% about the war, who profits from it and the politics behind it.  It pis$es me off to no end.  

    However, I'm not going to disrepect anyone in the military who serves their country.  Whatever their personal reasons.

    Apparently Joe doesn't want him to go...

    '"I don't want him going," Biden said. "But I tell you what, I don't want my grandson or my granddaughters going back in 15 years and so how we leave makes a big difference."'
    --Think Progress


    I didn't realize that he had requested to be sent (none / 0) (#175)
    by SueBonnetSue on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:11:14 PM EST
    I thought he was simply going because his troop is being sent and he has no choice.  I am sorry that I misunderstood.  

    More than one? (none / 0) (#178)
    by ineedalife on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:25:34 PM EST
    Does McCain have multiple kids over there? I thought so. Webb's son is over there too.

    My impression (maybe because I only read liberal blogs) is that there were more Iraq vets running for office in 2006 as Dems than Reps.


    I really, really don't get lauding his (5.00 / 3) (#94)
    by Valhalla on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 07:06:30 PM EST
    commute.  So what?  This seems like a reach for qualities that impress in a VP candidate.

    That reminds me of (none / 0) (#133)
    by massdem on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 08:29:58 PM EST
    Mike Dukakis, who also took the train to work every day.  Little good it did him.

    Why is this supposed to be impressive?  Why didn't he move his family to where his job is, like most people do?  He must have rarely seen his children if he was commuting 3 hours a day.  

    Purpose of Commute (none / 0) (#195)
    by BackFromOhio on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 04:26:10 PM EST
    I'm not an enthusiastic supporter of Biden for VP, but, I personally was impressed by the fact that about 36 years ago, when he was to be installed as Senator for the first time, his wife & sons were in a car accident; she was killed. Perhaps Biden took the train home every night to Delaware because his sons could not be moved and were still recouperating and/or family members who could assist in taking care of the boys during the day were in Delaware.  &, move kids away from their friends after losing their mother? 30+ years ago, fathers did not routinely play very active roles in their kids' upbringing.
    I am impressed by this.  But, in voting for Pres & VP, I'm concerned about FISA, foreign policy, stands on civil rights (for minorities & women), health care, DOJ, etc.

    Keep reading. (none / 0) (#141)
    by oldpro on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 08:40:40 PM EST
    You won't like it.

    I keep waiting to wake up (5.00 / 4) (#82)
    by tnjen on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 06:42:06 PM EST
    ...and find out this was all a terrible nightmare. But it's still Obiden. Ugh. Between Obama's flaws and Biden's support for the Prison Industrial Complex, and the Bankruptcy Bill, to name only a few, I can see nothing good in this ticket. How the hell did we get here?

    Thank you, Anita (5.00 / 3) (#83)
    by themomcat on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 06:43:40 PM EST
    We all miss Hunter. I know his spirit is watching all this saying, "What the !@#$".
    Biden does nothing to make me vote for Obama. I can't vote for McCain. This is the first time in the 40 years i have been voting that I will most likely walk into the voting booth on 11/4 and leave the "President" box blank. These men are the two worst choices that either party cold nominate. It's almost like they are giving the America the proverbial "finger". So depressing.

    Obama and (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by JThomas on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 07:00:34 PM EST
    Biden really clicked out there today. I think this is a winning ticket.

    sure (5.00 / 3) (#107)
    by ccpup on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 07:26:47 PM EST
    I especially liked it when Obama introduced the "next President of the ... the next Vice President of the United States".  That was a shining moment I'm sure we'll see again and again.

    And it was nice that the crowd -- from the nearby long-awaited and popular Blues Festival -- got hustled over to see a speech because the festival went on a break during Obama-Biden's appearance.  That was thoughtful of them, but I'm sure they couldn't wait to get back to the reason they were out enjoying their day:  the music.

    To sum it up, it was an awkward appearance to begin what will surely be a most interesting race.  Just not interesting in a way that'll be good for these two Top of the Ticket Dems.

    I'm gonna put my money on a McCain-Palin ticket.  No better way to suck whatever remnants of oxygen remain out of the Obiden balloon than that.


    most of your comments are longer.... (4.00 / 6) (#111)
    by p lukasiak on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 07:35:35 PM EST
    ...did Team Obama stop paying by the word, and start paying by the comment?

    Thank you, Paul, thank you thank (none / 0) (#139)
    by zfran on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 08:40:16 PM EST
    you, thank you! Loved your comment about paying for the comment! T-H-E-I-R  B-A-A-A-C-K!

    Correct that to T-H-E-Y-R-E B-A-A-A-C-K (none / 0) (#143)
    by zfran on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 08:42:54 PM EST

    Well, don't look for them to be (none / 0) (#152)
    by zfran on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 08:53:34 PM EST
    together again very soon. Apparently, Biden is heading for CO, while Obama is heading for WI (I think it's WI)and Montana. The campaign thinks that since they did so well during the primaries in Montana, they think they have a chance there. Also, the Obama campaign feels that if they were to get together again anytime soon (I heard this on one of the stations today)it would give the McCain campaign more fodder to go negative with. Take it for what it's worth, it was confusing when it was stated and the logic of it is again, childish.

    Poor reasonong (5.00 / 1) (#119)
    by Molly Bloom on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 08:02:35 PM EST
    <block>A million unlikely voters got text messages at 3am with the "The VP Announcement!" Yeah!!! They opened their texts and saw...What? Joe Biden?  Oh. And went back to sleep.</block>

    Since the text messaging was self selected, the vast majority are likely voters, not unlikely ones.

    I am not sure what is worse. The mindless Obama cheerleading or the mindless anti-Obama cheerleading.

    I guess this is a safe haven for Clinton (5.00 / 1) (#155)
    by oculus on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 08:59:15 PM EST
    supporters, but, I gather some have not reviewed Biden's actual voting record, which record gives me quite a bit more confidence in an Obama presidency.  

    Unlikely voters because they are under 25 (none / 0) (#154)
    by SueBonnetSue on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 08:58:49 PM EST
    Those are the people who claim they will vote, until they don't.  

    Hasty generalization is also an example of poor (5.00 / 0) (#161)
    by Molly Bloom on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:07:12 PM EST

    It's 3:00 A.M. (5.00 / 3) (#150)
    by OxyCon on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 08:51:02 PM EST
    The phone is ringing. It's the presumptuous Democrat Barack Obama picking flaky Joe Biden for his Vice President.
    Feel safer?
    Also, nice touch by Obama officially releasing his choice at 3:00 A.M.
    Seriously, for whatever reason do you do that other then to crap all over Hillary Clinton another time, kinda like hiring Solis-Doyle to be chief of staff for the VP after Hillary fired her.
    Obama is a very small minded, vindictive person, isn't he? We've had one in office for almost 8 years now...how is that working out for America?
    Petty, vindictive leaders (Obama has never been a leader) are always failures because eventually the people around them have enough and turn against them.

    Blind Ambition???? (5.00 / 2) (#176)
    by ineedalife on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:20:28 PM EST
    I would say someone with Obama's thin resume running for President is the one afflicted by blind ambition.

    Also we are voting for President. As Americans. Not just as Dems or Reps. (I'm independent). I'm voting for the person that will do best in the job. I will vote for my Dem Rep for Congress. He can push for my issues. But for the first time in my life I will split the ticket. Obama has not done the job he held ever, as far as I can tell. He just used it as a stepping stone for the next job. 100 votes as "Present" in the Illinois Leg. No meetings of the Afghanistan subcommittee he chaired. No publications in the Harvard Law Review ( first ever for an Editor of that journal). At least McCain actually did the jobs he held in the military and Senate. Obama has already taken two vacations this year in the middle of a presidential campaign. He truly is the Democratic Bush.

    The facts (none / 0) (#183)
    by JThomas on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 11:59:10 PM EST
    are that voting present in the Illinois legislature is an accepted and normal practice to shelve bills to work on changing them.
    He had over 2000 votes that were not present.
    He has been very productive in his time in the US Senate working on nuke non-proliferation laws and Ethics Reform legislation, and the new Transparency in Govt law.

    This ... (5.00 / 1) (#186)
    by FreakyBeaky on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 02:51:41 AM EST
    Women seem to be the ones talking this nonsense and of course they would be the ones most affected if Roe were overturned.

    ... is why the little sweeties need the assistance of their husbands and pastors to make difficult decisions.  They all ought to consult such men before voting. /snark

    The First Poll on Biden (none / 0) (#128)
    by facta non verba on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 08:25:27 PM EST
    Honestly, I'm surprised but he's not a big hit especially among women.

    Early Poll on Biden

    Two things... (5.00 / 2) (#153)
    by oldpro on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 08:53:45 PM EST
    women tend to see through men more easily than other men do.  We've had more practice keeping an eye on the 'players' and the hotshots and separating the men from the boys...and

    grownup women are not likely to be bought off easily by superficial charm and promises, not to mention threats.

    I know experience isn't the theme this year but it still works on the individual level.

    Do NOT...I repeat, DO NOT accept a ride home from THAT guy...


    You're surprised (none / 0) (#145)
    by A little night musing on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 08:45:33 PM EST
    that he's not a big hit among women? Really? I can think of at least two big reasons he wouldn't be.

    • Anita Hill (MEGA reason)
    • HRC (the fact that she wasn't chosen, and in fact may not even have been notified) - not his fault, but he gets the blowback.

    How in the world this is surprising (none / 0) (#171)
    by Dr Molly on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:54:02 PM EST
    I can't understand.

    Interesting The Poll Says Obama Is (none / 0) (#192)
    by daring grace on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:52:36 AM EST
    "Overall in the national polls, women have continued to be the mainstay of Obama's support."

    I don't think I ever saw that analysis before.


    "Uncle" Clarence??! (none / 0) (#172)
    by txpolitico67 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:01:55 PM EST
    wow, that is BEYOND racist.  I may not agree with Justice Thomas but THAT was over the line IMO.

    Good Luck (none / 0) (#193)
    by DanR3 on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 11:41:00 AM EST
    I'm sure McCain and the GOP will take your pro-labor concerns seriously.