Saturday Afternoon Open Thread II

I've said all I can or want to say about the VP stuff.

I'm watching the Olympics now. And I can tell you what I am really thinking about - The Rainbow Warriors of Hawaii coming to The Swamp (Ben Hill Griffin Stadium, the home of the Florida Fighting Gators) a week from today to learn a little bit more (Georgia gave them a demonstration in the Sugar Bowl last year) what SEC football is all about.

This is an Open Thread.

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    Numbing & Avoidance (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by No Blood for Hubris on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 04:06:25 PM EST
    Yes, I have decided to deal with my feelings about this by totally pretending I don't have any -- e.g., numbing & avoidance.

    (Oh, say, isn't that one of the major symptom-categories of PTSD?  Why, yes it is!  Fancy that!)

    Hi. I'm a recovering Democrat. (5.00 / 10) (#23)
    by Cream City on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 04:28:13 PM EST
    And want to thank the DNC, Dean, Pelosi, Brazile, and the Chicago Way's Senator Obama for their brilliant pick for VP.

    My spouse has spotted that I now turn on the TV only for the last few hours of the Olympics and for classic flicks.  It is off now, and the CD player is on for the first time in eons.  So I am rediscovering dozens of great CDs, and I am rocking! as the spouse discovered when he took out his headphones.

    Right now, it's Ronstadt.  But I feel some Abba coming on. . . .  This campaign is over for me.

    Oh, I may have to put on my CD of great songs from the labor movement, too.  I always change the words of "Joe Hill" to Anita Hill.


    Lol-- (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by stxabuela on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 04:54:07 PM EST
    Me, too.  

    Ha! (5.00 / 0) (#112)
    by lansing quaker on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:36:47 PM EST
    My Wisconsin partner! ;)

    I'm recovering myself.  So bummed about Biden.

    I am still anti-McCain, but I must say if he picks Alaskan Gov. Sarah Palin as his VP it'll be pretty tempting.  Do you have any thoughts?


    I will seriously consider voting for McCain... (5.00 / 0) (#119)
    by justinboston2008 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 06:04:13 PM EST
    as long as Romney is not the VP. More likely to vote for McKinney though as I don't want to be considered racist and she has positions on the issues that are closer to mine than McCain.

    I'm not voting for McCain or Palin (none / 0) (#148)
    by Cream City on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 08:53:30 PM EST
    and I probably am not voting for anyone at the top of the ticket -- and that's a first for me, but I can do it in good conscience, since everyone keeps telling us that Wisconsin is not a swing state, for the first time in such a long time.

    So my time and money is going to Lawton for the not-for-governor gubernatorial race.  She's great.  And I hold Obama personally responsible for screwing up her chances and those of Dems in this state by giving Doyle the idea that he could go to D.C. . . and thus keeping him from doing what he ought to do.

    After all, Doyle said he would do two terms at most.  Time's up, guy.  Instead, he's pulling a Tommy Thompson and keeping the party in suspense.  Tommy pulled that off, because it was the Repubs.  The Wisconsin Dems cannot make that work, as they always have to work 'way ahead to hope to pull even.

    And I do not, not, not want a return to Republican dominance of the state.  We will not recover from that for decades, as it is . . . because Doyle, frankly, has not done the job to get us back on track, either.



    On the plus side, this poll shows basically (none / 0) (#134)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 07:49:49 PM EST
    no change in votes with biden as the pick...



    The bottom line: Olympians like to get it on (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by andgarden on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 04:12:35 PM EST
    Ok, so this made me laugh:
    WITH THE OLYMPIC closing ceremonies only a couple days away and most athletes done with their events and allowed to stray from strict training regimens, here's a special episode of SatTatt from the Olympic Village (well, in spirit).
    Beginning with the 1992 Barcelona Olympics, the host country has traditionally (and thoughtfully) supplied the thousands of hard-bodied young athletes with thousands of condoms.
    Continued. . .

    "Hard-bodied young athletes"? (none / 0) (#157)
    by Cream City on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 12:26:21 AM EST
    Did we the reader really need that, um, allusion?

    I mean, it's not hard to see in that what we're supposed to see.



    Looking Forward to Wednesday... (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by Brillo on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 04:13:16 PM EST
    Five visits from a presidential candidate to Montana is completely awesome.  The last time Obama was here I had the pleasure of seeing him down on the Crow Indian reservation, and while the venue will no doubt be far less comfortable this time around, I'm still looking forward to it.  

    Unless (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 04:24:22 PM EST
    ...he chooses Palin....

    Exactly (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by americanincanada on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 04:28:24 PM EST
    Not only would Palin give him a HUGE boost but she would suck all the air out of both the Obama and Biden personal narratives.

    Shes a darkhorse candidate but anyone who dismisses the idea that he would choose her, or another similarly out of left field running mate, assuming McCain has no choices more exciting than Biden is setting themslves up for a rude awakening.

    Republicans know hot to win if nothing else.


    Palin... (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by Brillo on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 04:42:48 PM EST
    Is being investigated by her state (GOP controlled) legislature for some major ethics violations.  She's also said she's not being vetted by McCain.  She also put out a press release a week or two ago specifically to praise Obama's energy plan.  

    I don't see any indication that she's likely to be McCain's choice.  Do you?  


    When Palin Praised Obama's Position (none / 0) (#162)
    by daring grace on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 09:58:11 AM EST
    on energy as it related to Alaska,


    I figured it was a sign she is not in any way on deck for McCain's VP.


    Agreed. (none / 0) (#114)
    by lansing quaker on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:38:57 PM EST
    Palin would give him a huge boost, in my opinion.  At least, amongst this gay, Michiganian, male.

    Hate to admit it, but she's been a better leader on (limited) gay rights than Obama himself has.


    Huh? (none / 0) (#26)
    by Brillo on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 04:29:32 PM EST
    ?? What?

    btw brillo, why would the rez be less comfortable (none / 0) (#32)
    by DFLer on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 04:33:20 PM EST
    this time? just curious.

    Cause... (none / 0) (#76)
    by Brillo on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 04:52:26 PM EST
    It's not being held on the rez this time, it's in Billings.  Probably at one of the high schools, or maybe the little arena place.  It'll probably be cramped, stuffy, loud, and generally just annoying.  Something to be said for sitting around in the grass outside next to the river with eagles flying overhead, you know?  :D

    got it....thanks (none / 0) (#89)
    by DFLer on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:01:32 PM EST
    roger that re the eagles...it's amazingly wonderful how the NA eagle ceremony/prayer draws the eagle to circle above the gathering....seen it happen several times.

    Good for you. (none / 0) (#125)
    by JThomas on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 07:04:47 PM EST
    Montana is a huge symbol of a new western democratic party if you can get it into the blue column.

    Cator (none / 0) (#153)
    by tek on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:18:04 PM EST
    Just keep thinking that and it'll all be over soon.

    Heh (5.00 / 2) (#15)
    by Steve M on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 04:24:22 PM EST
    You say "what SEC football is all about," I think "General Studies majors."

    No he'll do what Obama did (5.00 / 2) (#22)
    by waldenpond on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 04:27:05 PM EST
    and go White Male Party Line.  Neither is going to rock the boat.   I wish McCain would, just to add some excitement to this campaign.  73 days to go.

    Agreed. Just got an email (5.00 / 2) (#34)
    by Cream City on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 04:33:42 PM EST
    from someone who heard me say publicly months ago, that our next president most probably would be another white guy.  It cracks me up that this audience member thinks I was prescient!  Ha.  I was just going with the undeniable inevitability of the more things change, the more things stay the same in American life and politics.

    Biden makes McCain's age (5.00 / 2) (#60)
    by Cream City on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 04:45:22 PM EST
    no longer an issue.  And McCain has his own hair.

    You misunderstand. I agree that (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by Cream City on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 04:54:07 PM EST
    McCain will go with a younger one, which won't be hard to find. :-)

    But yes, it is still about Obama and McCain.  But the attacks can be undercut by VP picks.  And Obama has just done that to himself -- or he is attacking his own VP pick, who became eligible for Social Security this year.


    Biden Considerably More Dynamic (none / 0) (#163)
    by daring grace on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:03:55 AM EST
    than McCain. So, old white guy, yeah, in relative terms to Obama or say, Romney. But next to McCain he comes off positively boyish.

    And that's another risk McCain runs picking a much younger running mate--the inevitable comparisons as they stand together on stage.

    I think McCain's age and the way he wears it is his elephant in the room, and like race for Obama, may be a not talked about but influential element of how people end up voting.


    Seems the same can be said (5.00 / 8) (#28)
    by Cream City on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 04:30:02 PM EST
    of you and your comments here.  See the warning above.  And you are doing your candidate no good whatsoever, but clearly, that is not really what it's about for the likes of you.

    What it is about for you, we can tell.  We're that intelligent.

    Are you part of the Unity contingent? (5.00 / 5) (#30)
    by nycstray on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 04:31:04 PM EST

    Is that your story? Really? (5.00 / 5) (#36)
    by Anne on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 04:34:02 PM EST
    It was deliberate?

    Your stand-up routine really ought to think about sitting down.

    Such crap. (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by chel2551 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 04:38:27 PM EST
    How many times have you posted this absolute crap?  You're silly.

    Wait 'til the repubs start hitting the buttons about Rezco.

    Since you're going after Bill (5.00 / 3) (#74)
    by Cream City on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 04:51:20 PM EST
    and no doubt Cindy, you'll have fun seeing what's coming on WalMart Michelle.  Not to mention her part in what looks like possible perversion of federal law and funding for historical preservation to land that little mansion.  And then she resigned from the Chicago committee that certified the mansion as a historical landmark, so that the Obamas could get the federal funding.  And still have enough left for those ballet lessons.

    It is the attacks on Cindy's houses that allows this to come down on Michelle Obama.  Bad mistake.


    when i started reading your comment... (5.00 / 1) (#137)
    by irene adler on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 07:55:37 PM EST
    i thought you were going to be referring to this news story.

    Sen. Barack Obama's wife and three close advisers have been involved with a program at the University of Chicago Medical Center that steers patients who don't have private insurance -- primarily poor, black people -- to other health care facilities.

    i heard the story on the radio earlier this afternoon. [i'm in chicago]. then saw the Sun-Times had more. the rationale for it could be plausible, i suppose, but catch the cast of characters involved. even rezko gets a mention.


    Thanks Creme. I totally agree (5.00 / 1) (#149)
    by zfran on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:06:00 PM EST
    that Obama, who was so outraged at any mention of Michelle, threw out the first new ball of the season against Cindy and now has opened that door.  

    No, it's not a myth. (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by Firewalker on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:20:08 PM EST
    She wasn't vetted and Obama never even broached the subject with her. A report on CNN.com backs up what I just wrote. Where's your proof?

    Really. (none / 0) (#109)
    by chel2551 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:28:20 PM EST
    You've heard of him.

    The republicans will be happy to educate the voters.


    10 comments per day (none / 0) (#131)
    by waldenpond on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 07:30:16 PM EST
    New commenters (those less than 30 days) are limited to 10 comments per day. You are at 20.

    Also, I had to delete your other comment.  Links must be in html format.

    how to link.


    You're still here? (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by DFLer on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 04:39:20 PM EST

    F**k Aw-phph (none / 0) (#95)
    by DFLer on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:03:36 PM EST
    BS (5.00 / 2) (#46)
    by angie on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 04:40:11 PM EST
    Obama disinvited former Sen. Max Cleveland (a badly wounded war hero) from an event because he was a "lobbyist" for a company whose products are aimed at helping soldiers recover more quickly from battlefield injuries, Tissue Regeneration Technologies. Since I know you will ask me for a link, here it is.
    WORM that one, if you can.

    Good luck in November. (5.00 / 5) (#50)
    by chel2551 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 04:42:18 PM EST
    Since you're continuing to alienate voters that Obama will need, it will be quite a kick in your pants when he loses.

    Remember the responsiblity that you'll bear for that.

    Do you understand that Bill & Hillary (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by angie on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 04:42:55 PM EST
    are not the same person? Vetting Hillary should have nothing at all to do with Bill's library foundation -- he's just the spouse. I'm sure the Obama camp would like to pretend Bill's library donor list would be needed to vet Hillary, but that is just pure hogwash. Now please, stop repeating this hogwash.  

    So what brought out a crowd in Springfield? (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by Cream City on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 04:43:30 PM EST
    h/t to JavaCityPal whose comment in another thread got me looking for the local paper online.

    Turns out that the turnout was for a long-scheduled annual statewide blues fest and bbq.  But the fest, a few blocks away, had agreed to shut down during the Obama event, which sent the crowd that way.

    This time, unlike in Berlin, Obama didn't even have to supply the band and beer and free food.

    Oh, and the heat was so bad -- or maybe it was the bbq? -- that a bystander fainted as Biden passed by.  Now that had to be a first for Biden, getting the fainting treatment.  It seems to have been toned down by the Obama camp lately, since the celebrity ads.  But maybe the McCain camp will have the fun of a video with Biden the Rock Star.

    This whole campaign has descended into inanity.  And at a time when this country needs grownups.

    Hehehe. I thought I heard live music when (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by nycstray on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 04:45:33 PM EST
    they showed the crowd gathering earlier in the day.

    To Catori (5.00 / 4) (#56)
    by christinep on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 04:44:08 PM EST
    In scrolling through today's comments here, your remarks seem to stand out...in a kind of prickly thorn way. It is one thing to discuss, to argue a point of view, to attempt persuasion through some factual reference(s). It is quite another matter to clothe potshots/putdowns/outright condescension in running commentary. Just an observation: Your comments thus far seem designed to kick and belittle (and be a bit incongruous) than the character and import of the thread. Certainly, believe what you will and express it. Recognize, tho, that ridiculing snips do nothing to further discussion because of a less-than-honest quality that they project. Please treat others here with the respect that you seem to seek.

    Let is be said that at least Catori (none / 0) (#66)
    by Cream City on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 04:47:57 PM EST
    uses up a lot less bandwith than the blogcloggers.  Where is Halstoon of the Interminable Comments these days, anyway?

    Or tben. (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by chel2551 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 04:55:11 PM EST
    Joined at the hip.

    This despicable comment (5.00 / 6) (#64)
    by Steve M on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 04:46:10 PM EST
    is the sort of thing that should not be permitted here.

    Contest: Put Up A Statue Immediately (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by Ellie on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 04:56:31 PM EST
    Today, my vote goes to whoever invented the afternoon nap (or siesta).

    A couple of hours on a late, lazy Saturday afternoon -- after a week of mayhem* -- is just so enjoyable. A beautiful day makes it all that more lavish.

    In a display of role reversal, I'm stealing Husb's excuse today of why he's not out there enjoying summer's (brief) lease: "Shhhh ... please do not disturb the man working on an opera."

    * granted, I had the Olympics on in the fore- or background practically every waking minute

    Your spouse is (5.00 / 1) (#128)
    by gyrfalcon on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 07:18:26 PM EST
    working on an opera?  Yeah?  How so?  Composing, singing, conducting, playing?  Or is it a head opera?

    I'm with you on naps.  I love 'em!  I'm a night person who loves early morning, especially since I moved to the country, so having my cake and eating it too, I often nap for a couple hours in the heat of the afternoon in summer.


    The magnificent opus is a cover story, I think :-) (none / 0) (#158)
    by Ellie on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 12:38:49 AM EST
    Purely a head opera, along the lines of "Shhh ... man working on best novel ever!" If either one materializes, it'll be solely for the marital triumph of saying, "Hah! I told you so!"

    Mmmm, country life. I'm definitely headed there someday; it's where I came from in the first place. Now if I can only figure out how to bring 24-hr Tandoori with me ...

    I discovered the joy, health and practicality of napping fairly recently, from flexing to work real-time in different time zones purely as an economic situation and to accommodate colleages and clients. It's one of the rare positive life changes I've experienced during the dreck of the Bush era.

    For years, I'd readjust to everything from weird scheduling and jet lag by walking around like a zombie as I readjusted to a "normal" schedule. My sister and frequent new mom told me not to be a self-punishing goof about it: take a nap!

    Now I just LOVE flex time: whether it's being able to enjoy the tranquility of the late night sky or a gorgeous sunrise in the cool of a summer morning, before the day gets hot and muggy with city car exchaust.


    Country Tandoori (5.00 / 1) (#161)
    by gyrfalcon on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 08:31:07 AM EST
    Learn how to make it yourself!

    I do occasionally miss the ability to just pop down the street for good Indian or Chinese food, or better yet, have it delivered.  But for a nice chunk of the year, you can eat like a king with fresh produce from your garden or one of the numerous small organic produce places in the area, raw Jersey milk from the spotlessly clean farm down the road, your own or your neighbor's fresh-laid eggs, and even naturally raised beef, pork, lamb and chicken, if you can afford it.

    Once I knew I was going to move here, I bought a couple of beginner's Indian cookbooks and stocked up on spices, so I can satisfy my craving once in a while with just a little effort.

    Irreplaceable is the quiet, the clean air, the beauty all around, the privacy, the utter trustworthiness of local workmen who treat you like a neighbor and not a cash cow, the dedication of the town road crews who scrape every last speck of snow off the roads as soon as it falls, the huge benefits to your car's mileage and engine health from driving only on fast country roads with no stoplights, never mind a traffic jam.

    I don't know what happened to me since I was born and grew up in Manhattan, but there was some kind of karmic mistake somewhere since I've always been a country girl at heart, just never got to actually live that way until a few years ago.

    Re napping-- once your mind learns that you truly don't have to get all 8 hours of sleep in one go but can split it into two or three chunks and be just as fully (if not more) rested, life becomes much easier if your work is on an irregular schedule.

    I like your sister!  "Self-punishing goof" indeed.


    Jeralyn does not like us to accuse each other (5.00 / 4) (#86)
    by Valhalla on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 04:59:26 PM EST
    of lying on this site.  So I will only say:

    You prevaricate like a rug.

    Well (5.00 / 2) (#88)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:01:27 PM EST
    If you are trying to help management, then do me a favor, calm the eff down.

    Why... (5.00 / 0) (#98)
    by Brillo on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:08:51 PM EST
    Would you hope?

    I'd be shocked (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by chel2551 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:11:51 PM EST
    if McCain picked Palin, but OTOH, he says he's only going to serve one term.  She wouldn't have to run for the presidency in four years, except if...


    What an upsidedown political season this has turned out to be.

    p.s. Dick Morris is a scumbag.

    He walked the one term thing back (none / 0) (#104)
    by cawaltz on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:19:17 PM EST
    Something about quacking like a duck before even getting a chance to sit at the big boy desk in the Oval Office.

    Talking about one-term (none / 0) (#108)
    by chel2551 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:26:00 PM EST
    could point to health issues.  Not age, however, since we had Raygun for eight.

    Sweetie, I doubt that you exist (5.00 / 2) (#101)
    by Cream City on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:12:00 PM EST
    outside of the virtual world.  You wouldn't have the guts to be so dumb on the streets as you are here.

    And ou could look it up (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by Cream City on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:16:00 PM EST
    in your limited little virtual world.  As I said, see the Springfield Statesman-Journal.  It might even expand your vocabulary, which is below par even for your apparent age group.  

    As for credibility, there are commenters here from whom that would cause me concern.  You are not one of them.  

    Picking Palin... (5.00 / 2) (#118)
    by lansing quaker on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:58:19 PM EST
    Would suck the air out of this "historic" Democratic candidacy.  

    Much as we hate her, the first female AA Secretary of State was put forth by Republicans.

    Ironic if the first female VP is Republican, too?  I bet "that racist!" Geraldine Ferraro will be laughing her kiester off every night at that, too.

    I wouldn't count it out.  If McCain is smart he'll avoid someone like Romney.

    Does chel2551 get the same warning? (5.00 / 0) (#133)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 07:47:12 PM EST
    First comment was 8/15 and they are at 18 comments today.

    Yes, thanks (5.00 / 1) (#139)
    by waldenpond on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 08:13:12 PM EST
    There are so many new people the last couple of weeks or people that have returned after months of absence......

    No, thank you. (5.00 / 1) (#147)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 08:39:09 PM EST
    I was glad to see that you removed their hair plug slam.  Attacking the personal appearance of anyone should not be tolerated here.

    Until LSU, Georgia, and/or Florida... (5.00 / 1) (#136)
    by EddieInCA on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 07:53:02 PM EST
    ...and the rest of the SEC...

    ...play a top NON-CONFERENCE team...

    ...on the road...

    ...like USC does almost every year...

    ...I'll continue to mock them.


    The S.E.C. is overrated.

    Does Michigan count? (none / 0) (#142)
    by oculus on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 08:20:34 PM EST
    With Michigan... (none / 0) (#146)
    by EddieInCA on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 08:37:12 PM EST
    ...it depends on the year.  :-)

    Interesting? Why? (4.00 / 4) (#8)
    by JavaCityPal on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 04:19:44 PM EST
    I think Hillary has proven to the country time and again that she see the value in everyone. She's a glass half-full kind of person who believes working together is far more beneficial that looking for the challenges and flaws in the people she's working with.

    americanincanada...WHY THE TROLL RATE (none / 0) (#63)
    by JavaCityPal on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 04:45:47 PM EST
    It isn't against the rules to compliment Hillary Clinton!

    I was surprised at that too (none / 0) (#126)
    by gyrfalcon on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 07:05:42 PM EST
    I'm guessing it was a mistake

    Is she ready to be president? (1.00 / 1) (#18)
    by nycstray on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 04:25:12 PM EST
    It's a shame. If Obama were the VP nom, then I could see running her and both parties would benefit grooming new blood. Instead, I think McCain needs someone who can counter Biden better. She may need a bit more on FP and NS.

    She has executive esperience that (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by americanincanada on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 04:30:42 PM EST
    they all lack.

    Obama would not be able to attack her experience level without opening himself up to the same attacks and McCain could counter with, 'at least our most experienced candidate is at the TOP of the ticket."


    She's first term, right? (none / 0) (#39)
    by nycstray on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 04:37:03 PM EST
    I was just thinking she might have problems with FP creds which are pretty important these days. Obama's Euro Tour didn't help him at all. I think she has better chops than Obama in general, but I also think Obama is too much of a rookie to be President. They both need a bit of seasoning, imo.

    I agree, she needs seasoning (none / 0) (#68)
    by americanincanada on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 04:49:21 PM EST
    But like Obama would have, if he had waited and been Hillary's VP, Sarah will get those working with McCain.

    I am note a republican and have no intention of voting for any McCain ticket but I can't hide the fact that Sarah Palin impressed the crap out of me.

    She held several other executive positions before being elected Gov. including mayor. She quit ha position rather than be part of corruption and has kept her campaing promises; chief among them selling the plane her republican predessor (sp?) had purchased on the taxpayer dime. Not to mention she ended the 'bridge to nowhere' project.

    FP creds are important but so are executive esperience and energy policy, both of which she stands tall on and could help McCain greatly.

    She also has a less than hard-line stance on gay rights/marriage. She opposes same-sex marriage; but, she has stated that she has gay friends, and is receptive to gay and lesbian concerns about discrimination. While the previous administration did not implement same-sex benefits, Palin complied with a state Supreme Court order and signed them into law.

    She is an interesting choice and Rush Limbaugh, of all people, is now pushing hard for McCain to choose her. He's even gone so far as to create a logo! LMAO


    She is impressive (none / 0) (#127)
    by gyrfalcon on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 07:10:38 PM EST
    I doubt he'll pick her, but I think if he did, it would be truly sensational and would convert a fair number of "Not voting the top of the ticket" Dem women to actual McCain voters.

    (BTW, if it matters, it's the spelling is "predecessor")


    True. But with Biden on the ticket (none / 0) (#80)
    by nycstray on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 04:54:32 PM EST
    I think it's more glaring. When this whole thing started, I was thinking a Clinton/Obama ticket would be good because he could get his WH chops and we could possibly have 16yrs. The republicans could try it and she could run in 4, but she'd still be up against more experience. She seems very wonky and could do ok. I guess I'm looking to see us pick the bar up a bit. At least put people in office who have enough experience. It could be on the low end of enough, but at least enough, pretty please!

    Also, it does no one any good if an inexperienced woman or AA doesn't do well.


    I agree in principle (none / 0) (#87)
    by americanincanada on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 04:59:48 PM EST
    However, I can see how the narrative could work. Old maverick/new maverick. she really is an interesting choice. her wiki page has a wealth of information. Too bad she is a conservative repug.

    I think it would be a daring pick that no one would see coming. She might be up against more experience in 4 years but a part of me thinks a Clinton - Palin battle would be a delight to watch. If McCain were to (god forbid) serve 2 terms, I can almost guarantee that in 8 years Palin would be more than ready.


    Oh, I like her (none / 0) (#94)
    by nycstray on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:03:29 PM EST
    may not agree with her, but she seems to have that spark that I like.

    2 wonky chicks debating?! We can dream, eh? Might just put the boys to shame  ;)


    As much as I enjoy telling everyone (none / 0) (#4)
    by Florida Resident on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 04:13:12 PM EST
    that the SEC is the toughest in the NCAA I am a Georgia fan and my dislike of the Gators is enough for me to root for Hawaii.

    Beg to Differ (none / 0) (#35)
    by D Jessup on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 04:33:44 PM EST
    IMHO the Big Twelve is the toughest conference. :)

    Bah (none / 0) (#122)
    by Lahdee on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 06:23:08 PM EST
    You want a tough conference try some pencil neck geeks with a powerpoint presentation.

    Biden's son Hunter is a lobbyist? (none / 0) (#7)
    by nycstray on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 04:19:33 PM EST
    Ok, so I was clicking around to see where Biden stood on things such as lobbyists, and gosh, he has one in the family.

    Well, at least he gets an 80% Humane rating :)

    McCain's is already there? (5.00 / 5) (#27)
    by nycstray on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 04:30:00 PM EST
    Excuse me for being surprised that Obama is down with the Washington Lobbyist son after all his anti-lobbyist spewing.

    Same son also has a history with the CC company most connected to Biden. Methinks "hypocrite" may pop up in the conversation soon. While I like that Biden has the experience since Obama doesn't, I think there may be a few problems with the pairing because of Obama's words.

    It's pretzel time!


    can't say I'm surprised--from (none / 0) (#9)
    by NJDem on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 04:19:57 PM EST

    "Some in Clinton circle 'outraged'" (about HRC having not even have been vetted)  

    text snafu (none / 0) (#17)
    by pixelpusher on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 04:24:26 PM EST
    Obama's texting snafu is roughly the equivalent of photogenic JFK debating untelegenic Nixon on TV, and then being caught picking his nose when he thought he was off camera.

    I mean, his tech-savviness was supposed to be his advantage...

    I think June Jones (none / 0) (#20)
    by DemForever on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 04:25:45 PM EST
    dropped Rainbow from the name


    I'm ready for football, too... (none / 0) (#31)
    by kempis on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 04:32:29 PM EST
    SOMETHING to look forward to. Sheesh....

    Tebow and the Gators should be fun to watch this year. And I do hope Alabama gets it together.

    On the pro side, go Stillers. (Steelers.)

    Sheesh (none / 0) (#57)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 04:44:25 PM EST
    Calm down.

    Catori and Friends are very encouraging (none / 0) (#72)
    by JavaCityPal on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 04:50:39 PM EST
    I've had enough...they encouraged me to take a break from TalkLeft.

    LOL, if that's what gets you excited (none / 0) (#99)
    by DandyTIger on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:11:18 PM EST
    well, that's great. I'm happy for you. It's great to be happy and excited. Make sure you have tranquilizers handy if anything really exciting happens. :-)

    Your posts... (none / 0) (#103)
    by kredwyn on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:16:39 PM EST
    seem to be quite unimpressive.

    Oh, so you're the one. (none / 0) (#106)
    by Firewalker on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:22:28 PM EST
    Yeah, Biden's competent but I can't imagine anyone actually getting excited over him.

    The Freepers are quite excited, from what I (5.00 / 1) (#120)
    by Valhalla on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 06:06:55 PM EST

    You think you've seen it all? (none / 0) (#115)
    by lentinel on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:46:37 PM EST
    nycstray posted this tidbit on the thread entitled:McCain Responds to Obama's Selection of Joe Biden

    Obama's campaign (with the enthusiastic support of Michelle Obama) is starting a group called
    "Women for Obama Torchbearers"

    These "torchbearers" are to go out and get votes for Barack.
    It is ONLY for women under 35, mein führer.

    I thought it was a joke, but it isn't.

    I don't know how to put the link in HTML but the whole torchbearer crapola is on BO's website.

    You can find the HTML link in nycstray's post #128
    posted Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 02:24:21 AM EST

    As soon as I saw the word 'torchbearer' (5.00 / 3) (#123)
    by Valhalla on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 06:43:29 PM EST
    all I could think of was the villagers chasing Frankenstein's monster...

    I guess I'm old enough to carry a pitchfork--and (5.00 / 2) (#155)
    by jawbone on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:49:45 PM EST
    leave the torches to the young'uns.

    here ya go (5.00 / 1) (#124)
    by nycstray on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 06:48:39 PM EST
    I think I'm going to be (5.00 / 1) (#130)
    by gyrfalcon on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 07:25:25 PM EST

    Hey, boys and girls, let's imitate the Republicans!  Let's have idiotic vaguely national-socialist names for groups of supporters!  T-shirts!  Plaques!  Marches around the streets!  Better join if you know what's good for you!

    "Torchbearers" my fanny.  Yeeeccchhhh.


    I'm glad I live in CA (none / 0) (#138)
    by waldenpond on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 07:59:38 PM EST
    Not only doesn't my vote matter (ha! as if it ever does) but I won't have to tolerate any of this campaigning strategy (that putting it kindly) that makes me cringe.  'Fellows' and 'Torchbearers' oh my.

    That's how I feel sitting in NY (5.00 / 3) (#150)
    by nycstray on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:07:40 PM EST
    I was ticked he ran Olympic ads 'cause I was hoping I could make it until late fall :)

    I did get an email inviting me to "Obama Camp" last night, lol!~ If they only knew  ;)


    Cream City: please address the (none / 0) (#141)
    by oculus on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 08:19:47 PM EST
    syntax:  "Women for Obama Torchbearers"

    Ha. This is one of those instances (5.00 / 1) (#159)
    by Cream City on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 12:52:31 AM EST
    in which the content is of more concern than the communication of the content.

    But, yes, the syntax sucks, she said elegantly.  These would be women who are supportive of those who are the torchbearers for Obama?  Ah, well, women in a supportive role is to be expected of this tone-deaf campaign.  

    But if what is meant, instead, is that the women themselves are to be the torchbearers, as it were, then we might prefer the form to be along the lines of Women Torchbearers for Obama.  Of course, there is the ongoing debate about whether a modifier ought to be singular even if modifying a plural noun.  That is my preference, actually, because I am a bit of a fuddy duddy on such matters.  Thus, 'twould be Woman Torchbearers for Obama.  

    But I have given up on so much fuddyduddiness, if only from sheer exhaustion from The Far Greater War to be Waged for the Correct Use of the Apostrophe and Other Punctuation Marks.  So let us return to the discussion of the content -- and the connotations.

    A more significant concern might be that the imagery is an allusion to certain political movements of the past that would not seem to be wise.  And will the torchbearers also be wearing sheets and hoods?  Bearing crosses, of course, in this campaign for the God-given candidate a la Ms. Pelosi.  But could we offer a wee suggestion that matches and lighters be confiscated from the torchbearers?  Just in case.  They do seem to like flaming on the internets.

    But even worse, for me, is the allusion to, as the young things say, "carrying a torch" for a guy.  To which I say:  Ugh.  But again, to be expected of a tone-deaf campaign.  

    Ah, well, whatever gets women marching again.  Maybe they'll find out what so many women did in earlier reform movements, even as recently for some of us as those ancient, "excessive" '60s.  Every "wave" of the women's movement has been in reaction to men using women as the troops but then comes the crack! as their pretty li'l heads hit that see-through ceiling.  Let us see what comes of this. . . . :-)


    Watch it (none / 0) (#116)
    by MichaelGale on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 05:51:52 PM EST
    with the "intelligent" word kid

    Ouch! n/t (none / 0) (#121)
    by Valhalla on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 06:08:32 PM EST

    I've been trying to put my (none / 0) (#132)
    by dk on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 07:39:15 PM EST
    thoughts about the whole Biden mess into words, but for the time being I think I'll just give props to what Melissa wrote over at Shakesville.  Her first reaction was sadness, and I have to agree.

    I heard something about that (none / 0) (#135)
    by waldenpond on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 07:50:32 PM EST
    and couldn't find the detail on what states he was pulling out of. MT, ND and VA are some here felt he could get.

    The polling could be really bad in FL and VA or they are pulling the old ads and getting ready to revise the campaign now that they have a VP pick and try to go in a new direction.  It will probably be a series trying to link McCain to Bush that Biden can also push on the campaign.

    Are you serious or joking? (none / 0) (#143)
    by Marvin42 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 08:33:26 PM EST
    I honestly can't tell. Excited by the Biden announcement?

    We're all (none / 0) (#145)
    by Nadai on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 08:34:56 PM EST
    terminal cases, sweetie.

    Rats, I wanted to see it (none / 0) (#151)
    by nycstray on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:11:23 PM EST
    Hopefully I won't have to stay up until 3AM when it first airs.

    Huck is on talking about how team O poured more salt in our wounds today. Ouch. Obama REALLY missed the boat.

    How (none / 0) (#152)
    by tek on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:14:28 PM EST
    'bout them dawgs?!! Georgia's no. 1!

    Wow! (none / 0) (#154)
    by tek on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:27:24 PM EST
    Maybe Hillary is going to run with McCain.  Biden said he'd be proud to run with McCain and Kerry actually asked onto the ticket.

    Rhythmic gymnastics came on while the BIden (none / 0) (#156)
    by jawbone on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 11:09:00 PM EST
    was having his coming out party (tonight's local news just reported that Biden was told he was picked during a dental appointment on Thursday, btw), and the women were great, great, great. Gorgeous.

    I love the ribbon apparatus (as it was called): I like to think I do rhythmic gymnastics with my cats--I move the ribbon in pretty patterns and the cats do the graceful gymnastic routines.

    Much more relaxing to watch that than the coming out party.

    I did later see some footage of Biden speaking--and was struck how much better he was than Obama as a political speaker.  He spoke in briefer sentences, very few uhs and hems, and made actual points the listeners could follow. It was almost painful to compare the two of them.