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Biden's Views on Liberal Democrats

Joe Biden to the New Hampshire Leader in 2007:

Biden was generally critical of the far left wing of his party and of the strategies the frontrunners are using to win the nomination.

He said Democrats would do better if they stopped dividing the electorate by playing to their base and instead brought people together. He criticized the left wing of his party for demonizing the rich and Republicans.

“Rich folks are as patriotic as poor folks, but we don’t talk that way,” he said.

Biden also talked about his electoral strategy:[More...]

“I don’t want to be President if that’s the way I have to win, because I can’t govern that way,” he said. He said that as President he would hope to have enough red state support to get his legislation through Congress.

If he gets the nomination, he would run on a 15 red-state strategy. He thinks he can win 15 red states — such as Virginia, West Virginia, Kentucky and Missouri — which would give him enough of a base of support in Congress to govern effectively.

He criticized Hillary Clinton for antagonizing Republicans:

When Hillary Clinton has bragged about how she upsets the right wing, he said he’s wanted to tell her, “If you weren’t the nominee, the right wing would not be so exercised.”

He doesn’t think he would draw as much conservative ire and could even win over independents and some Republicans, he said.

The reporter for the New Hampshire paper wondered why he was criticizing voters in his own party.

He acknowledged that such comments get him into trouble with liberals, but he expressed what seemed to be genuine frustration with what he saw as missed opportunities to broaden the party’s appeal.

Have I mentioned that Joe Biden "wholeheartedly supported" the actions of federal agents at Waco and reportedly "visibly sneered at witnesses in Senate hearings who questioned agents' acts."

On Biden the gaffe machine. This is one of my favorites:

""I've had a great relationship (with Indian Americans). In Delaware, the largest growth in population is Indian-Americans moving from India. You cannot go to a 7-Eleven or a Dunkin' Donuts unless you have a slight Indian accent. I'm not joking,"

Article here.

As to Biden teaching constitutional law, he's been in the Senate since Nixon was in the White House. He became a Senator after a three or four year non-descript career as a lawyer.

I'm going to try and come around to believing I should vote for this ticket. It won't be easy. And even if I do, I'm not going to lay off criticizing him.

< CNN Confrims: Biden is the VP Candidate | McCain Responds to Obama's Selection of Joe Biden >
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  • Display: Sort:
    At least now I see what Obama sees in him... (5.00 / 5) (#1)
    by Dawn Davenport on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:20:13 AM EST
    ...a fellow sharpshooter for the circular firing squad.

    Oh (5.00 / 8) (#4)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:23:29 AM EST
    geez, it gets funnier and funnier. Obama was the darling of the left wing during the primaries.

    Biden has a motherlode of statements that are going to be pouring out all day tomorrow. Obama has invited a rain of hell down upon himself with Biden.

    Obama also looks like a complete idiot because of his incessant whining about the AUMF during the primaries since Biden supported it.

    Obama has deliberately divided the party and it will not be united now. He gets 75% of Dems right now and is losing independents by 10 pts. to McCain. That is probably likely to get worse now.

    It's turning into more of a trainwreck by the minute. By the time the convention rolls around it's probably going to be a PR disaster.

    After watching the Netroots (5.00 / 3) (#7)
    by ding7777 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:24:05 AM EST
    demonize McCain for his 7 houses, I agree with Biden - they are wasting resources to bully rich Republicans

    I'm confused (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by dissenter on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:27:23 AM EST
    Today I was watching some stuff on the whole housegate thing. A reporter said that Biden's net worth is minus $300K. How does someone that is so in the pocket of big business turn out to be so poor? Is this the guy who is going to give the economic advice? This just gets funnier and funnier.

    Ok, sadder and sadder, BTW, anyone interested in a Denver weather report...I just saw it on the news. Bring your raincoats:)

    Parent

    just figured it out (5.00 / 2) (#20)
    by dissenter on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:29:21 AM EST
    credit card debt?

    Parent
    it hurts when I laugh that much, stop it n/t (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by DandyTIger on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:30:32 AM EST
    oh dear, good point about economic issues (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by DandyTIger on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:30:01 AM EST
    and his being in debt. I assume this is debt from the pres. campaign. I wonder.

    Parent
    Not according to the FEC site (5.00 / 1) (#110)
    by Valhalla on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:16:08 AM EST
    I was just checking.  He's got almost 200k still.

    Parent
    Got rid of (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by MichaelGale on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:58:27 AM EST
    his assets last week so he could be the struggling VP to low information voters and financially struggling Americans?

    Parent
    this shows me some vulnerabily - he's obviously (none / 0) (#187)
    by suzieg on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 06:36:29 AM EST
    living beyond his means. I hope Obama thouroughly financially vetted him. A 65 yr old who has been in the senate for 35 yrs and only has $300K - this makes no sense, unless he lost everything in the NASDAQ bubble bursting.

    Parent
    hee hee n/t (none / 0) (#15)
    by DandyTIger on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:26:52 AM EST
    sounds like a perfect fit (5.00 / 5) (#8)
    by Turkana on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:24:51 AM EST
    change, indeed.

    wow, I guess this is the new democratic party (5.00 / 4) (#9)
    by DandyTIger on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:25:32 AM EST
    where they really don't want members of the old democratic party to come along for the ride. I guess that's clear now.

    I mentioned Biden had to drop out of the presidential race in '88 because of a plagerism contraversy. Here's modo's article on it back then. There's a video of it too which I'm sure will show up on youtube soon.

    Hmm, something about that sounds familiar. And somehow something you can xerox comes to mind.

    biden had already been in the senate (5.00 / 3) (#42)
    by sancho on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:38:55 AM EST
    a while when bill clinton was elected in '92--four years after biden's embarassing run. my bet is that he was furious when clinton won in '92. and how they have fumiageted the clintons, or so they hope, and are making the country safe for the abolition of privacy, the rule of big business, and god knows what in russia/georgia.

    Parent
    You're forgetting Pakistan (none / 0) (#182)
    by laurie on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 03:21:24 AM EST
    C'mon, those were "Just Words" (5.00 / 7) (#51)
    by Cream City on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:41:15 AM EST
    which reminds me of a more recent controversy about plagiarism by a Democratic candidate. . . .

    As it happens, I've just been proofreading my syllabi for the fall, rereading my statement about plagiarism.  I guess I might as well toss it out the window and encourage all the young'uns to use just words from anyone, any way they want, since it is rewarded in our society.

    Now I'm going to the bookshelf for the account of the Anita Hill-Clarence Thomas hearings, flipping to the index for a preview of just which words by committee chair Joe Biden will be in the McCain ads aimed at those of us never will forget October 1991.

    Parent

    Some vetting, eh? (5.00 / 6) (#56)
    by JavaCityPal on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:45:30 AM EST
    Caroline Kennedy indicated she remembered the optimism her father brought to the country when he became president, how could she possibly have forgotten about Biden's role in the Hill-Thomas hearings?


    Parent
    well, maybe she was so busy vetting Hillary (5.00 / 5) (#63)
    by DandyTIger on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:51:21 AM EST
    that she didn't have time to ... oh wait, that's right, they didn't even bother to vet Hillary did they. The didn't even give her the respect that almost every nominee has given the runner up since forever, even when they weren't going to choose them.

    Parent
    plenty of time for unity (5.00 / 4) (#78)
    by AlSmith on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:59:39 AM EST
    in the future.

    But for now I think some people should be held responsible for their idiocy.

    A Kos commenter:
    "Hillary will be held responsible if Obama doesn't win.  All the negative attacks and bile she spewed when she had NO CHANCE of winning was simply her poisoning the well so she can try again in 2012."

    Hmmm ok. I guess opinions can differ. But what they hell is this person thinking:
    "I'm only 28, but I can't ever recall anyone practically demanding to be VP the way Hillary's underlings and supporters have.  SHE LOST!  The decision was Barack's and his alone.  HER 18 MILLION VOTERS!!!  Well ummm didn't Obama have about that many. "

    This person knows Obama didnt have as many votes! In a normal person wouldnt that make them rethink who had actually won? Or at least acknowledge that there is a very good case that the narrow runner up should be on the ticket?

    The world makes me cynical.


    Parent

    "About that many" votes (5.00 / 5) (#90)
    by Cream City on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:05:18 AM EST
    is not enough to win in November.  Do they know that?

    Bet a lot of 'em don't know about the Electoral College threshhold, either.  The idjits who kept coming here to tell us that Obama had "won" the nomination because he had more delegates.

    Parent

    Well, honestly.... (5.00 / 2) (#125)
    by oldpro on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:29:19 AM EST
    the idea of a Kennedy vetting a Clinton is beyond hilarious.

    Parent
    It indeed is.... (5.00 / 2) (#197)
    by Andy08 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:20:36 AM EST
    I think Caroline; who I have always respected until she came with Obama being like her father (say what?) belives that meme so much that thought Biden would be the perfect illusion for what LBJ was to JFK.... This whole attempt to evoke JFK with pols that are clearly not makes me cringe. As a Dem.; I find it embarrasing...

    Parent
    I think this was (5.00 / 1) (#139)
    by MichaelGale on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:40:33 AM EST
    a Ted Kennedy pick...Sorry but that's what I think.

    Parent
    yea, that's a sore point n/t (none / 0) (#55)
    by DandyTIger on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:45:05 AM EST
    oh Susan, hurry up and post that video (none / 0) (#77)
    by DandyTIger on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:59:30 AM EST
    oh youtube. OK, inside message, sorry... :-)

    Parent
    I've been mostly lurking (5.00 / 8) (#10)
    by cloudy on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:25:55 AM EST
    since the Primaries ended, but this is just too disappointing to not comment on.  Biden is the change we've been waiting for?  I had such great hopes, this time, last year.  I wonder, sometimes, if these pols are listening to anyone except themselves and the people holding the money.

    No need to wonder (5.00 / 1) (#126)
    by cal1942 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:30:55 AM EST
    cloudy.  The pols listen ONLY to themselves and the money.  This batch of Democrats at the top has been warped by fear of the media and GOP electoral success into abandoning large groups of their supporters.

    Parent
    Birds of a feather (5.00 / 10) (#11)
    by txpolitico67 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:25:59 AM EST
    His criticisms of the liberal wing of the party should have gotten the voters of DE fired up and primaried him and ran him outta office.

    NOW, here the Dems are with this very odd pairing.  I swear if I weren't into conspiracies, this seems almost too orchestrated for a colossal loss at the polls.  WHY would he give the VP slot to a man who has made some of the most outrageous comments about Obama?

    Hillary never said anything NEAR what Biden has said about Obama and she wasn't even considered.  I really do feel that this was some big ploy to throw the election so these fools could stay  in their positions of power and to NOT work for the American people.

    Because we all know that the Clintons would have worked for LIBERALS and everyone else and NOT be complete slaves to the credit card industry.

    Obama loves the credit card industry - voted for (5.00 / 8) (#154)
    by suzieg on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 02:03:18 AM EST
    allowing them to raise their interest rates higher than 30%...

    Parent
    Loved his inane excuse (5.00 / 3) (#186)
    by tlkextra on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 04:52:59 AM EST
    for that one.....he thought 30% wasn't a high enough cap

    Parent
    correction (none / 0) (#28)
    by txpolitico67 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:32:32 AM EST
    if I 'were' into conspiracies.

    Parent
    The other thread filled up before (5.00 / 8) (#12)
    by Grace on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:26:01 AM EST
    I got a chance to post, but sheesh!  The big guessing game for this?

    I don't see how Biden goes along with Obama's "Hope & Change" thing.  Biden has been in the Senate longer than almost anyone.  He's been in Washington longer than the Clintons!  (Is that a Republican ad or what?)    

    Heck (5.00 / 8) (#31)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:34:07 AM EST
    Biden's been in Washington longer than even John McCain.

    The ads just keep writing themselves don't they?

    Parent

    Biden's been in the Senate (5.00 / 3) (#41)
    by Jeralyn on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:38:30 AM EST
    since Nixon was in the White House.

    He too teaches constitutional law. He was a lawyer for 3 or 4 years, with an non-descript legal career before becoming a Senator.

    Parent

    Okay (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:41:12 AM EST
    if he taught constitutional law then why is he so bad on the issues? Do you know?

    Parent
    He was only 30 when he went to (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by denise k on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:51:03 AM EST
    the Senate as I recall.  Been there foooorever.

    Parent
    experience is good (none / 0) (#97)
    by AlSmith on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:08:23 AM EST

    I like that he is experienced. But I am going with the flow for awhile ;-)

    He entered the Senate when Obama was 10 or 11. Whoa.

    Obama didnt even enter the continental US until '79 when Biden was into his Senate second term!

    Biden had been in government office for nearly 10 years before Obama even set foot in the county proper (sorry Hawaii).

    Parent

    It just doesn't make sense (5.00 / 4) (#34)
    by tlkextra on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:35:16 AM EST
    to pick someone who had to drop out so early in the Primaries because of lack of support?????

    Parent
    Didn't he run for president in '88? (5.00 / 2) (#46)
    by nycstray on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:40:21 AM EST
    Yes. Until he was caught plagiarizing. (5.00 / 6) (#53)
    by Cream City on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:42:12 AM EST
    Now there's a resume that impresses.

    Parent
    So, he was there before the evil (5.00 / 3) (#64)
    by nycstray on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:51:42 AM EST
    Clintons but now he's ok?

    Obama seems ok with plagiarism, if you remember. And he seems to be "channeling" Hillary these past couple days . . . .

    I do like that he has experience, but . .  .

    LOL!~ on Fox, McCain has already sent out the first volley to the Obama camp with Biden quotes.

    Parent

    To be fair (5.00 / 4) (#98)
    by cal1942 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:09:39 AM EST
    the plagiarizing charge came from the Dukakis campaign. Biden used a quote from a British labor leader (Neil Kinnock) in a number of his speeches.  He always gave credit for the quote except on one occasion.  It was that occasion that the Dukakis campaign cited.

    On that one incident Biden's campaign tanked rapidly and he withdrew before the primaries.

    Interesting that 20 years later politicians can plagiarize at will and get off without harm.

    Obama's been given a pass on plagiarism, double talk, a book best catagorized as faction and a resume containing almost nothing but padding.

    Twenty years of a society in decline.

    Parent

    Well, fair or not, I pine for the days (5.00 / 1) (#176)
    by Valhalla on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 02:30:27 AM EST
    when people cared enough about plagiarism for it to prevent a presidential bid.

    Sigh.

    Parent

    So do I (none / 0) (#194)
    by dutchfox on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:13:23 AM EST
    and oops, I made a comment about Biden's plagiarism above, but had not read the rest of this thread. Apologies.

    Parent
    oh..yeah... (none / 0) (#61)
    by Stellaaa on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:49:55 AM EST
    plagiarizing

    Parent
    Biden--a balm for bankers AND all to the right of (5.00 / 1) (#198)
    by jawbone on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:26:18 AM EST
    the base of the Democratic Party.

    Know what amazes me? Until I actually had a chance to follow Biden's votes and Senate actions closely through the blogs, I thought he was one of the good stolid solid liberal progressive guys.

    Excuses were made that since DE is home to so many banking HQ's (for regulatory reasons) that he had to be more conserviative (er, had to suck up to the banking industry) to keep jobs in his state. Yeah, right.

    What a not so great choice.

    We now have a presidential team which has indicated they really don't want the Democratic Party base to be active in the party. They do want our votes, however.

    "Where else ya gonna go, sweetie?"

    Please, Biden, do not shut up! The more you talk, the gaffe gold flows out!

    Parent

    I think (5.00 / 11) (#26)
    by mmc9431 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:30:54 AM EST
    I've just been told to leave the party and don't let the door hit me in the a## on the way out! It seems they're going  to be the Republican Lites

    Yes (none / 0) (#105)
    by cal1942 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:13:07 AM EST
    mmc9431. You me and every other bread and butter Democrat.

    Parent
    Hear! Hear! (5.00 / 1) (#196)
    by dutchfox on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:15:51 AM EST
    And I'm even less thrilled with Obama now.

    Parent
    No, we are all missing the point (5.00 / 10) (#27)
    by shoephone on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:31:23 AM EST
    According to this commenter at the Orange Palace, the brilliance in the pick is that we will now have two constitutional scholars in the White House!!!

    Gosh, I feel better already.

    (do I have to say this is snark?)

    well, when they both visit McCain (5.00 / 4) (#29)
    by DandyTIger on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:32:54 AM EST
    in the white house I guess they mean.

    Parent
    oh my goodness, some of those (5.00 / 10) (#48)
    by mary kate on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:40:25 AM EST
    who dwell in that palatial Orange residence are waxing enthusiastic about this brilliant and inspired selection.  "Let's get behind this ticket and change the world!"  Yes, let's!  Let's not rest until every corner of the universe has been remade in the image of MBNA!...

    Parent
    Are they insane (5.00 / 3) (#86)
    by MichaelGale on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:03:20 AM EST
    or just dumb? What incredibly naive and immature people. Good Lord.

    Parent
    Both (5.00 / 1) (#112)
    by cal1942 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:17:40 AM EST
    but with a decided lean towards dumb and a heavy dose of self-delusion.

    Parent
    Constitutional Scholars? (5.00 / 3) (#103)
    by mmc9431 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:11:39 AM EST
    Maybe they should read it sometime together. Didn't they both vote for FISA bill? Both have allowed GWB to stomp on it  with signing statements and executive orders. Now Bush is signing a "agreement" (not a treaty) to keep us in Iraq for at least 3 more yrs. What do these two scholars think of that?

    Parent
    Joe Biden (5.00 / 2) (#33)
    by lansing quaker on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:34:58 AM EST
    The gift that will keep on giving to the Republicans all election season.

    I feel like I will have a perpetual ice-cream headache for the next few months.  Someone please re-assure me it's just some random brainfreeze from Hell freezing over, and not the reality of this situation?

    Naw (5.00 / 3) (#37)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:37:05 AM EST
    we've just given the GOP a twin present with huge ribbons wrapped around it.

    Parent
    "we've" ? (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by sancho on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:41:19 AM EST
    count me out of the decision making process here. but then again i live in florida so i was counted out (or counted for) a long time ago.

    Parent
    Unfortunately it's very real (5.00 / 1) (#119)
    by cal1942 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:22:03 AM EST
    This is what we all should have expected.

    By the way is that lansing quaker as in Lansing Eastern Quaker?

    Parent

    Good eye! (none / 0) (#175)
    by lansing quaker on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 02:30:11 AM EST
    Most certainly is. ;)

    Michiganians/Lansingites/Quakers for life!

    Parent

    Folks in MI aren't called Michiganders? (none / 0) (#199)
    by jawbone on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:29:08 AM EST
    Michiganians? Oh.

    Parent
    I couldn't possibly vote for someone (5.00 / 3) (#36)
    by badger on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:36:43 AM EST
    who voted for the AUMF or the Bankruptcy Bill. My purity wouldn't allow it. Especially the AUMF vote - it's an indication they lack the judgment to be President (or potentially President).

    yawn. (5.00 / 2) (#40)
    by s5 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:37:59 AM EST
    My consolation is that he appears to be a strong environmentalist, with good things to say about energy security and the green economy. Since those are my top issues, I'll feel comfortable with him involved in policy.

    But, as a candidate, yaaawwwwwwn. A lot of people seem to love him, though. He seems to have centrist appeal? He's supposedly a strong attack dog? I don't know.  I guess we'll be getting to know him in the coming weeks.

    I would have loved to see Clark, Hillary, or Richardson (in that order of preference). But here we are. All of my friends who are centrist dems but never warmed up to Obama are psyched, so maybe he's on to something.

    I like Joe Biden personally, (5.00 / 3) (#49)
    by Grace on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:40:58 AM EST
    but heck!  I like Mrs. Huckabee too!  And her husband, Mike!  I just don't have any desire to vote for any of them!  

    Aniita Hill/Biden to Hillary/Obama (5.00 / 8) (#59)
    by denise k on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:46:33 AM EST
    Biden was a main figure in the character assassination of Anita Hill on the way to Clarence Thomas' confirmation hearings.  And to have him picked as VP over Hillary is galling.  So much for
    "you've come a long way baby".  I predict that Obama is going to have some serious fence mending to prevent chaos at the convention.  And frankly, if I were going to the convention, I would be one of the trouble-makers.  

    um, why would he mend fences? (5.00 / 2) (#71)
    by DandyTIger on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:57:18 AM EST
    They've said over and over this is a new democratic party and those folks aren't in the game anymore. Sorry, if you're feeling left out, it's because you've been left out. Don't let the door hit you on the way out...

    Parent
    Agreed (5.00 / 2) (#87)
    by denise k on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:04:04 AM EST
    The fence-mending is for his sake, not mine.  If he wants to prevent a mess in Colorado, he needs to mend fences -- that is what I mean.  Frankly, everything about Obama is for his sake.  I am starting to really have issues with him.  Yes, I know, slow to the party and all that, but I just don't see his appeal -- at all.  By the same token, I can't abide the thought of McCain in the White House, so I am stuck.

    Parent
    welcome to our world :-) n/t (5.00 / 2) (#101)
    by DandyTIger on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:11:27 AM EST
    John King tonight told his audience that he has a (5.00 / 1) (#157)
    by suzieg on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 02:08:50 AM EST
    good friend who's an Obama advisor who told him that Obama is referred to as: ObaME

    Parent
    I'm watching for Boxer at the convention (5.00 / 3) (#80)
    by Cream City on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:00:03 AM EST
    as she has been a hero to me since I first heard of her, when she still was in the House -- in 1991.  That's when she led a group of women from the House across to the Senate Judiciary Committee, chaired by Biden, to demand that he and the rest of the (all-male, all-white) committee take Prof. HIll's charges seriously.

    And that's what helped Boxer and Feinstein join the boyz in the Senate the next year -- the so-called Year of the Woman, but at least it was that in California.  It made history as the first state ever to have two women Senators at the same time.  (There are three or four now, and yet, the nation stands.)

    Btw, sadly, Feinstein won't be at the convention, I read, because of a broken ankle.  But Boxer may just have to lead a march on Biden again. . . .

    Parent

    Ah, thanks for the reminder (5.00 / 2) (#99)
    by nycstray on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:10:28 AM EST
    When I leave NY and Hillary as my Senator, I end up in CA with Boxer and Feinstein. I was sad when I heard Feinstein broke her ankle. I was looking forward to her keeping CA strong for Hillary on the roll call.

    Parent
    Barbara Boxer (5.00 / 1) (#123)
    by Steve M on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:25:51 AM EST
    is one of the very best Dems we have.  My wife is originally from California and always refers to Boxer as "my Senator."  I say, does that make Ahnold your governor?  Dirty look time again.

    Parent
    You seem to know how (none / 0) (#134)
    by nycstray on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:38:25 AM EST
    to collect dirty looks from your wife  ;)

    I know my mom got a kick out of being able to vote for both women. I'm trying to deal with the fact I voted for Nancy as my Rep. all those years ago. Kinda weird having it haunt me here in NYC.

    What's also making me sick about the Biden pick is everyone talking about his wealth of experience he brings. HELLO!!! (sorry for the drift, TeeVee on in background and I just heard it again!)

    Parent

    Ahnold is not (none / 0) (#145)
    by Grace on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:47:20 AM EST
    a terribly good Republican governor.  

    He signed the bill to allow state funded embryonic stem cell research lickety-split.  Didn't even think twice about it and that was a couple of years ago.  While the Republicans in other states are still trying to decide if embryos are human babies or not, Ahnold already gave them the ax.  Allowing embryonic stemcell research will allow California to move ahead in biotech (which is a big industry here).  

    If anything, he's like an "ultra-liberal" Republican.  

    I'm okay with him.  I liked Gray Davis too, and I didn't want to see him go, but the energy thing turned most of the California voters against him.    

    Parent

    My beef with Boxer is (none / 0) (#166)
    by Firewalker on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 02:18:27 AM EST
    she said she'd endorse the person who won in her district. Well Hillary ended up winning and that's what Boxer did. HOWEVER, as soon as Obama "clinched" the nomination she endorsed him and will now be casting her vote for him at the convention.

    Parent
    3 of the 4 corners (none / 0) (#96)
    by denise k on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:07:58 AM EST
    Washington, California and Maine have two women senators, compared to none then.  I had been a fan of Biden before those hearings.  They soured me on him for good.

    Parent
    An interesting political tidbit (none / 0) (#122)
    by shoephone on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:25:50 AM EST
    is that WA is the only state to have a female governor AND two female senators. All Dems.

    Parent
    AND female House and Senate (5.00 / 1) (#136)
    by oldpro on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:39:23 AM EST
    Majority Leaders...and Ways and Means and Appropriations chairs...and Transportation chair...and probably the highest percentage of women in the legislature - we're usualy in the top 2 of states with the most elected females.

    Parent
    You're right about that. (none / 0) (#152)
    by shoephone on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:58:55 AM EST
    Although Helen Sommers retired, so no more female House Appropriations Committee chair... But don't forget Karen Keiser, who totally rocks on Health Care Committee.

    Parent
    If I didn't have commitments (none / 0) (#73)
    by nycstray on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:57:48 AM EST
    I'd be damned tempted to hop on a plane.

    I guess the commitments will keep me from the cages in Denver though.

    Parent

    I'm so frustrated (5.00 / 2) (#95)
    by MichaelGale on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:07:16 AM EST
    that I think I am going to try to get there.  At least I can yell with others.  Good therapy.

    Parent
    Let us know if you do! (none / 0) (#116)
    by nycstray on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:19:31 AM EST
    And PLEASE yell for me too!!

    I'm hoping like heck one of my clients comes through with Yankee/Red Sox tix next week. That will be my yell therapy. And may just save my TeeVee  ;)

    Parent

    If you need a place to stay and don't mind (none / 0) (#158)
    by suzieg on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 02:11:35 AM EST
    travelling, I have a friend who was taking in PUMAs in her condo in Vail - I'll ask her if she's filled up and if not, I'll let you know how to get in touch with her....

    Parent
    A number of protest groups have (none / 0) (#120)
    by Valhalla on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:23:28 AM EST
    HQ set up in Denver. (outside the cages)  Do you need addresses?

    Parent
    I am thinking of (5.00 / 2) (#133)
    by MichaelGale on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:36:53 AM EST
    emailing the Puma site and asking them for info about where they will be and such.

    I am going to check out flights tomorrow and if I decide to go, which I think I will, I'll get more info from you.

    Thanks

    Parent

    most info is already available on the site (none / 0) (#138)
    by Valhalla on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:39:59 AM EST
    no need to email.

    Parent
    Hill supporters are in two Denver Parks (none / 0) (#184)
    by laurie on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 03:47:09 AM EST
    (not cages)

    Parent
    What a fizzle (5.00 / 3) (#60)
    by mmc9431 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:47:26 AM EST
    I"m still amazed that after the right turns of Obama and now choosing Biden, any liberal or progressive thinking person can be enthused over this ticket. The only remaining positive left in this election is that GWB will be back in TX clearing brush.

    anyone have a link to an (none / 0) (#69)
    by Jeralyn on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:56:32 AM EST
    alka-seltzer commercial?

    Parent
    heh, plop plop fizz fizz . . . . (none / 0) (#89)
    by nycstray on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:04:46 AM EST
    sadly it's not a relief.

    But I do highly recommend getting a soda machine. Great for soda water on demand!

    Parent

    good to see (none / 0) (#104)
    by tlkextra on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:12:06 AM EST
    your sense of humor shine through as well. I drove through Downtown Denver today out of curiosity and I noticed how the whole place is staring to look like a concentration camp with concrete barriers and chain link fences. This morning on KOSI the jokes were about "you know they didn't pave those streets, paint those poles for us" and "who's gonna have to visit in order to get South Broadway paved?"

    Parent
    here's you go (none / 0) (#109)
    by DandyTIger on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:15:12 AM EST
    here it's not the one you're thinking of I bet, it's really old. But listen because it's extra funny, esp. the going down with the ship part.

    Here's another, also old, but has the usual jingle.

    :-)

    Parent

    Here's one (none / 0) (#113)
    by shoephone on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:18:03 AM EST
    that's animated (sorta looks like a Jules Feiffer?) with Gene Wilder doing the voice over.

    Parent
    I don't have the same criticism of Biden (5.00 / 5) (#65)
    by Edgar08 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:52:20 AM EST
    As others, but this is just another kick in the gut for the netroots.

    Clinton would have chose Clark I think.

    Either Clark or Obama himself.

    This is what CDS has purchased for the party and the activists who used to excoriate Biden as "Biden, D-MBNA" and now have to continue to play the apologists cause, lets face it, this is what they demanded of the party.

    I've always believed people like, and god love her, cause it's very personal for a lot of people and I understand that, but for Cindy Sheehan letting a vote on the AUMF control every decision everyone makes for the next 10 years.  To become so obsessed with punishing Clinton for that vote one lost site of the very real possibility that she would end the war sooner.

    I will continue to criticize a group of activists who, year in and year out, fail to get what they want, and therefore must be categorized as imcompetent in their activist role.

    They're fired.

    Beyond that, (5.00 / 2) (#141)
    by oldpro on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:44:06 AM EST
    the irony of moving the DNC headquarters to Mayor Daley's Chicago cannot be lost on any peace demonstrator from the 60s.

    Good grief.

    Parent

    I choose to believe (none / 0) (#81)
    by tlkextra on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:00:19 AM EST
    that Clinton would have immediately and publicly offered it to Obama as recognition of how close the Primaries were. That's not to say I don't doubt she would have offered because she expected him to turn it down. I think strategically he should have done the same and she probably would have refused.

    Parent
    Bill told us, if we picked Hillary, we would get (none / 0) (#161)
    by suzieg on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 02:15:00 AM EST
    both....

    Parent
    In this political culture... (none / 0) (#164)
    by wellfleetsurf on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 02:17:32 AM EST
    any decision like that would have been looked at as rash, and so I don't know if I agree.  

    Parent
    If you're pushing the Bankruptcy bill (5.00 / 9) (#67)
    by denise on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:55:32 AM EST
    then you work with Republicans. But if you're trying to pass universal health care, or to restore progressive income taxation, then all the Republicans are going to do is be a brick wall.

    When Obama & Biden say they want to work with Republicans to get laws passed, you know that those will not be progressive laws. I guess this makes me the far left wing according to Biden, only I just consider myself a basic liberal. I used to feel that the Democratic Party more or less represented my values. Now I have no party. I have no idea what the Democratic Party stands for anymore.

    it stands for (5.00 / 4) (#74)
    by Jeralyn on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:58:14 AM EST
    "no red states, no blue states, just the United Staes."

    If that's what you want, you have a party. If not, you're adrift or have to be consoled with the thought that it's still better than what the Republicans are offering.

    Parent

    yep, that's right. (none / 0) (#88)
    by DandyTIger on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:04:17 AM EST
    how we just have to think through this and figure out how far we're willing to go for the notrepublicans (mostly). ra ra ra. sniff, sniff.

    Parent
    Until they merge, (none / 0) (#106)
    by denise on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:13:46 AM EST
    no longer having any philosophical differences.

    Parent
    I think it stands for (5.00 / 5) (#137)
    by Grace on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:39:51 AM EST
    The Party of Squishy Values.  

    It means "We believe in Everything" and "We believe in Nothing" all at the same time.  

    We can tell you we are going to vote one way and vote exactly the opposite way and you are going to buy it.  

    We are the party of Relevance.  We are the party of redefining words and phrases, as well as redefining values.  

    We are we and you are you and we are you and you are us.  And "us" is the most powerful thing of all because it is the beginning of "USA"!

    Ahem.  So, the Democrat Party is everyone, even those who have registered as Republicans or Independents.  We are Mom's apple pie, baseball, and moonlit summer nights.          

    Parent

    I watched the "Biden Confirmed" stuff (5.00 / 2) (#79)
    by akaEloise on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:59:53 AM EST
    on CNN for about five minutes.  Then I watched it on MSNBC for about five minutes.  
    Then I switched to BBC America, and landed in the middle of Monty Python, in -- I swear this is true -- the SPAM sketch.
     "'Ave you got anything without SPAM in it?"
    "Well, there's SPAM, egg, sausage, and SPAM. That 'asn't got much SPAM."
    "I don't want any SPAM! I don't like SPAM!"
    It seemed appropriate.  I think Biden hasn't got as much SPAM in him as some of the other rumored candidates, but I was hoping for egg. sausage, and bacon.  
    At least, since I did not sign up for the text message, i won't be getting any SPAM in my phone.

    There, there... (none / 0) (#117)
    by EL seattle on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:21:16 AM EST
    I'll take your spam.  I love spam!

    Parent
    Arggggh! (5.00 / 1) (#148)
    by oldpro on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:50:53 AM EST
    Well it's clear you didn't live through meat rationing in WWII.

    Ask any veteran of the 40s or 50s about Spam!

    Parent

    But it sure does make for a catchy tune. (none / 0) (#173)
    by EL seattle on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 02:29:05 AM EST
    As seen in this cultural reference point.

    Parent
    Spam spam marvelous spam (none / 0) (#163)
    by janarchy on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 02:17:07 AM EST
    SHUT UP, YOU BLOODY VIKINGS!

    I think Joe Biden's got quite a lot of SPAM in him.

    Parent

    Great VP Pick! (5.00 / 4) (#92)
    by Firewalker on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:06:44 AM EST
    Biden, on a post-debate appearance on MSNBC, October 30, 2007: "The only guy on the other
    side who's qualified is John McCain."

    Biden appearing on The Daily Show, August 2, 2005: "John McCain is a personal friend, a
    great friend, and I would be honored to run with or against John McCain, because I think the
    country would be better off, be well off no matter who..."

    On Meet the Press, November 27, 2005: "I've been calling for more troops for over two
    years, along with John McCain and others subsequent to my saying that."

    Oops!

    A singularly uninspired pick (5.00 / 2) (#94)
    by Lahdee on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:07:06 AM EST
    His first decision of consequence and we get anti-change. Who is this man who preaches hope and change but gives me conventional and staid?

    This is the best he could do?


    Jeralyn - serious Q (5.00 / 1) (#111)
    by lmv on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:16:16 AM EST
    You'd said you couldn't support an Obama/Biden ticket, what now?  

    (I apologize if you've already answered.  It's late.)

    I agree with you that it's a bad choice.  Hillary was the only good one.  

    I guess Obama can kiss the Indian-American demographic goodbye (with good reason) small though it may be.

    and also anyone who supports indian americans (5.00 / 1) (#118)
    by DandyTIger on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:21:42 AM EST
    or women, or privacy, or financial rights, or liberal causes, or... oh, how come this isn't funny anymore.

    Parent
    I so want to respond to this (5.00 / 3) (#124)
    by ap in avl on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:26:05 AM EST
    but if I say what's on my mind right now I will be banned.

    So I'll let my complaining friends here who COULD "be happier" reply with their "nonsense".

    I am defending a lawsuit (5.00 / 6) (#127)
    by Steve M on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:31:39 AM EST
    brought by a crazy prisoner who swears he is related to Clarence Thomas.  Perhaps I could ask him for his opinion on the pick.

    I think you may be confusing Clarence Thomas with Robert Bork, actually, a mistake not often made.  Biden was a central figure in derailing the Bork nomination; in the case of the Thomas nomination, well, he wasn't quite as effective an obstacle, let's say.

    Hypo: does 42 U.S.C. section 1983 (none / 0) (#128)
    by oculus on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:33:40 AM EST
    provide a remedy for an inmate alleging he is Clarence Thomas?  

    Parent
    Funny story (none / 0) (#132)
    by Steve M on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:36:12 AM EST
    I actually had a long chat with Clarence Thomas about that case of mine.  Very friendly guy, to be honest!

    The prisoner also alleges, no joke, that he is in jail because he was framed by none other than Rudy Giuliani.  Now Rudy, I don't think he would return my calls, he's no Justice Thomas.

    Parent

    The picture (5.00 / 2) (#142)
    by cal1942 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:44:24 AM EST
    Great picture and in case anyone is wondering it's a 1949 Oldsmobile and the "New thrill" referenced in the ad is the overhead valve V8 offered by Olds and Cadillac for the first time.

    The problem with this ticket is that the politics of 1949 were more progressive than anything this flacid duo represent.

    It would have been more appropriate to picture them in a 1985 Oldsmobuick.

    OMFG!!!! (5.00 / 2) (#143)
    by nycstray on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:44:37 AM EST
    Suzanne (last name?) on CNN just mentioned that Biden was 65 so he prob wouldn't run for pres after Obama's 8 years and that would leave the door open for Hillary. And this might make her supporters feel better.

    WTF!!!!!! ARE THEY INSANE????

    Yes. (5.00 / 6) (#151)
    by Valhalla on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:58:48 AM EST
    They are insane.

    They still think it's about personalities.  They fell for Obama and can't get over themselves, so that is the only paradigm through which they can understand others.  

    The fact that Hillary was in the race this year made the sexism, the delegate stealing at the RBC, the shady punishment of only 2 of the 5 states that broke the primary schedule rules, and the push to rid the party of its traditional but 'icky' working class base more apparent to me than otherwise.  It's entirely possible that had she not been a candidate who I really wanted to see win (as opposed the usual candidate the Dems put up, who I hold my nose for) I may not have clued in to what was going on.

    But she was just the wake-up call, not the cause, for me to leave the party.  My disgust is not about her not winning the nomination.  It's about the way she didn't win, and why, and how.

    Parent

    Oh, I agree. I don't know (5.00 / 3) (#156)
    by nycstray on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 02:07:58 AM EST
    if I wouldn't have fallen in line if she hadn't been in the race. But she was and I'm done falling in line. I just can't believe that some idiot actually floated that we should be happy because she could run in 2016!! WTF is in that Koo-Aid?!!!

    Parent
    The MSM talking heads (5.00 / 1) (#170)
    by shoephone on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 02:23:38 AM EST
    Follow the thread...

    Parent
    There you go! (none / 0) (#150)
    by Steve M on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:58:42 AM EST
    Hillary is 61 this year, which clearly makes all the difference.

    Parent
    Nice try, but Biden was a total disgrace (5.00 / 7) (#147)
    by Valhalla on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:49:33 AM EST
    during the Anita Hill hearings and slapping his name on the Violence Against Women Act does not ameliorate it.

    Now see (5.00 / 5) (#155)
    by Steve M on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 02:03:44 AM EST
    This is an example of what an unhelpful comment looks like.

    Parent
    Yes, that is exactly what I meant. (none / 0) (#169)
    by Valhalla on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 02:23:28 AM EST
    I think violence against women is a good thing.

    Parent
    Aww, damn (5.00 / 5) (#162)
    by mabelle55 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 02:15:48 AM EST
    I guess this could get funnier (and funkier), but I really don't see how. The "change" guy (which I never believed) totally disses Hillary Clinton because of her "experience" and insider-ness, then chooses a white guy with twice her "experience" and D.C. insider-ness! What am I missing?

    It took me MONTHS to even get to the point where I thought I might be able to support Obama (albeit with my nose held -- because of his inexperience, because of his still questionable voting record, because of his support for FB initiatives, his gaffes and dancing around on choice, his silence on women's concerns, and many others).

    Then he chooses Biden --- the gaffe machine that keeps on giving, the open mouth, insert foot guy whose only real claim to fame is foreign policy, and who has been iffy on women's rights issues (sexual harassment/Anita Hill), and as Jeralyn points out is as bad as the Republicans on crime issues.

    It's not looking good for me to support this ticket. Frankly, I don't trust either one of them and Obama has flip-flopped and backtracked on so many issues, I now question whether he will keep his word on basic issues like health care, Social Security, abortion rights.

    I have never felt so negative about a Democratic ticket, as long as I have been voting (nearly 40 years). Some of it is gut feeling for me. Right now, it looks like POTUS/V-POTUS will be left blank on my card...

    Oh...That is (5.00 / 2) (#191)
    by Andy08 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 08:56:38 AM EST
    really low and disgusting ...very bratty:

    When Hillary Clinton has bragged about how she upsets the right wing, he said he's wanted to tell her, "If you weren't the nominee, the right wing would not be so exercised."


    It shows (5.00 / 2) (#192)
    by Andy08 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:02:51 AM EST
    a misunderstanding of how the right operates...and a comlete misunderstanding between appeasement and
    bipartisanship.

    If he really thinks that the right would be nicer with anyone but the Clintons then he has a problem
    closely related to passive agressivity.

    Parent

    My Hero (none / 0) (#2)
    by blogtopus on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:20:56 AM EST
    What a surprise, a boring, conservative man who represents everything the dems don't want. GREAT.

    Let's see what Cheetopia has to say.

    What won't be a surprise is that someone (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by JavaCityPal on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:29:14 AM EST
    in Obama's campaign is going to become a busunder. Whoever the 3 highly placed people were who let the cat out of the bag will never get a security clearance now!

    I sure hope people are translating the messages being sent by this campaign into how this administration would operate if they won.

    How in the world could Biden possibly be a better pick than Hillary? Obama is going to get real tired of Biden trying to run the show.


    Parent

    Gawd! If only they were electable! (none / 0) (#66)
    by Grace on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:53:06 AM EST
    I'd pay money to watch Biden race into the Oval Office holding a sheaf of papers with that wild-eyed look...  That would just be incredibly fun to witness in person!  

    When Biden gets hot, he gets HOT!!

    Parent

    When will we know how many houses (none / 0) (#3)
    by MarkL on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:21:33 AM EST
    Biden has? I want to kno!

    How will he toe the line for Obama if (5.00 / 2) (#14)
    by Valhalla on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:26:20 AM EST
    he can't make fun of Republicans for being rich?

    I am sooo confused.

    Parent

    His net worth according to CNN earlier (none / 0) (#13)
    by nycstray on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:26:11 AM EST
    is MINUS 300 grand. And since he's from working class roots, and his net worth makes him "working class" . . .

    Yes, Candy really said that. I guess he's our new "working class hero" lol!~

    Parent

    Did anyone else see (5.00 / 5) (#25)
    by tlkextra on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:30:49 AM EST
    the video comparison of Hillary during the Primary and what Obama is now saying - How he'll "wake up every morning thinking about" us? It's another case of "borrowing" words. Sometimes the ridiculousness of this Campaign is laughable.

    Parent
    the xerox candidates n/t (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by DandyTIger on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:34:06 AM EST
    You think Hillary will defend him for that (5.00 / 2) (#38)
    by JavaCityPal on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:37:09 AM EST
    like his friend Deval did?

    We're friends, I told him to use my words. Nevermind he doesn't know what they mean, they sound really great coming out of his mouth, don't they?

    Parent

    Yes, all those working class folks (none / 0) (#21)
    by Valhalla on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:29:26 AM EST
    who have 300k limits on their credit cards!  He knows exactly what they feel like, I'm sure.

    Does Biden still have campaign debt?

    Parent

    Wow (none / 0) (#24)
    by dissenter on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:30:38 AM EST
    We are posting this so in sync it is scary. I'm sure the Republicans are too

    Parent
    NPR this morning... (none / 0) (#189)
    by dutchfox on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 08:40:49 AM EST
    Despite the bad connection, the reporters on the news program this morning kept talking about Biden's middle class roots and the fact that he may  have been in the Senate for a long time, but he takes the train each night back to Delaware.

    Wasn't he cited for plagiarizing Neil Kinnock's speech?

    Parent

    People will be able to relate to him better (none / 0) (#35)
    by Grace on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:36:27 AM EST
    when they tack that big "Foreclosure Sale" sign on his front lawn.  

    Hmmm.  Maybe he better refinance the house and get an ARM in a hurry!  

    Parent

    No, maybe (none / 0) (#54)
    by tlkextra on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:43:31 AM EST
    he can relate to us when he tries to sell his house and realizes it's not worth what he paid for it (even with the questionable $300,000 discount). BTW, thanks Jeralyn and all the people commenting for their posts. I've had a few chuckles, as people have tried to express their frustrations in a creative way. Perhaps, if Obama is lucky, after most get it out of their systems, they can move on.

    Parent
    Well (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by Nadai on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:01:29 AM EST
    I did move on.  Unfortunately for Obama et al., I moved on from the Democratic Party.

    Parent
    I'm just glad the word is out and this (none / 0) (#5)
    by JavaCityPal on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:23:56 AM EST
    waiting game is over.

    Sorry for the people who thought they were getting something special via text message, but politics is risky business.

    I just don't know how Biden can bring anything positive to the ticket. But, then, what do I know?


    It seems to me (none / 0) (#68)
    by tlkextra on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:56:06 AM EST
    that for the voters that may be gained by Obama picking someone with national security experience, he will lose some of his core supporters that are strictly about antiwar. So it appears to be a "wash" and that's not addressing the Hillary factor.

    Parent
    Actually I think none (none / 0) (#6)
    by Stellaaa on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:23:56 AM EST
    random fact I had heard during the primary.  

    sounds (none / 0) (#18)
    by txpolitico67 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:28:50 AM EST
    about par MarkL

    Mark L (none / 0) (#44)
    by Jeralyn on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:39:27 AM EST
    was just banned for yet another personal attack on Obama. He's been banned before, let back in with a warning, warned thereafter, and I've had enough.

    Parent
    Ok, let's not be commenting on what we (5.00 / 4) (#144)
    by Valhalla on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:46:58 AM EST
    all think about MarkL getting banned, shall we?

    Esp. if we're going to start carelessly throwing around terms like 'threatening' because we disagree with someone's political views.

    Parent

    LOL n/t (none / 0) (#195)
    by dutchfox on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:14:34 AM EST
    Ouch! (none / 0) (#58)
    by txpolitico67 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:46:18 AM EST
    okay. thanks Jeralyn.  My Mom always warned me about "tell me who ur friends are and I will tell you who YOU are."

    Parent
    Oy. (none / 0) (#32)
    by shoephone on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:34:35 AM EST
    Maybe this works.

    I like Joe Biden (none / 0) (#39)
    by facta non verba on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:37:19 AM EST
    It's Obama that I don't care for.

    Biden is a realist and he's the point man for the Democrats on foreign policy.

    For Obama, the selection is not without risks. Still it is an excellent choice in my view. Not enough for me to vote for the ticket.

    Biden is also up for re-election in Delaware. Not sure if he can run concurrently for both posts. Others have in the past. Bentsen and Lieberman. Of course both won re-election but lost the main race.

    He'd (none / 0) (#43)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:39:16 AM EST
    be a great Secretary of State. He just makes a horrible VP candidate.

    Parent
    Well, if he were to ask me, (none / 0) (#45)
    by JavaCityPal on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:39:39 AM EST
    I'd have to tell him to try and save his Senate job.


    Parent
    CNN says he can run for both (none / 0) (#47)
    by Jeralyn on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:40:25 AM EST
    at the same time.

    Parent
    Thanks Jeralyn (none / 0) (#84)
    by facta non verba on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:02:21 AM EST
    I was wondering about that.

    Parent
    I like Biden better than Obama (none / 0) (#102)
    by Grace on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:11:34 AM EST
    If Biden were our candidate, I'd be voting Democrat in this election.  

    I just can't bring myself to vote for Obama since I still don't believe he has the experience to be President.  

    Experience is the thing that is "make or break" for me in this election.  

    If Obama would step aside and let Biden be President for the sake of the party, I'd vote for Biden.  

    Parent

    I agree on this... (none / 0) (#114)
    by tlkextra on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:19:09 AM EST
    unfortunately, for many, it is the deal breaker and no matter how much intimidation is used, that fact cannot be changed.

    Parent
    I have lost track (none / 0) (#57)
    by Steve M on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:46:14 AM EST
    of who the "far left" of the Democratic Party is.

    I mean, when I think of far left, the people I think of are people with no political clout whatsoever.  Like, for example, the handful of people who opposed the invasion of Afghanistan.  If that's the far left, I sure don't see the Democratic Party doing a lot of pandering to them.

    'Far Left' seems to be a shifting term (5.00 / 2) (#130)
    by Valhalla on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:35:26 AM EST
    I'm not sure I ever understood what it referred to, and now I know even less.

    If Obama is 'far left' then I'm obviously not even in the same time-space continuum.  And I see a lot of comments blaming the 'far left' for giving us Obama.  I think they mean the netrootz when they say that, but I don't find the netrootz 'left' at all --  as they seem to be limited to being against Bush and for Obama, and hating Clinton.  Those aren't political stances, those are pro and anti personality cults.

    I wish someone would come up with a nice, easy checklist for me.  C'mon, we've supersized simplified everything else in political discourse, why not political definitions?

    Parent

    I am disappointed (none / 0) (#70)
    by flyerhawk on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:56:36 AM EST
    if the selection is indeed Biden.

    I understand the reasoning.  He brings serious street cred on foreign policy and he isn't going to want to fight for camera time with Obama.  

    I had assumed from the beginning that Obama was going to pick an old white guy, and he did.

    But I wish he could have been a bit more daring.  To me this is Daschle's pick.  

    I do think that Biden will do extremely well in the debates.  Now whether that matters is another question entirely  

    He isn't going to fight for camera time? (5.00 / 3) (#93)
    by Nadai on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:07:02 AM EST
    Joe Biden?  There's an old joke that the most dangerous place in DC is between Joe Biden and a TV camera.  The man loves to hear himself talk.

    Parent
    He (5.00 / 2) (#131)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:35:36 AM EST
    will fight for camera time. Haven't you heard the joke around washington about where the most dangerous place in town is? Between Joe Biden and a TV camera.

    Parent
    Gosh (none / 0) (#100)
    by Steve M on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:11:03 AM EST
    It is a rare day when I am more bullish on an Obama decision than you are.

    I'll just say, I would rather see Daschle's pick than Daschle himself!

    Parent

    Heh (5.00 / 1) (#188)
    by flyerhawk on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 08:04:17 AM EST
    Very true.  I had a sinking feeling that the reason for the 11th hour selection was because they were going to announce Daschle as VP.  I had assumed that Daschle was the Chief of Staff in waiting but I was having some doubts.

    Parent
    Just waht is his cred (none / 0) (#108)
    by MichaelGale on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:15:05 AM EST
    on foreign policy?  I know he's on some committees but what has he actually done and problems he's solved thru legislation that makes him such an expert?

    Other than being in the senate for almost 40 years.

    Parent

    Not Daschle's pick. (none / 0) (#146)
    by oldpro on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:47:54 AM EST
    Dick Durbin's pick.

    They are pals, Dick and Joe.

    Parent

    Win 15 Red States! (none / 0) (#72)
    by mmc9431 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:57:47 AM EST
    I want some of whatever he's drinking or smoking

    I believe you can find it at big orange n/t (5.00 / 1) (#115)
    by DandyTIger on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:19:26 AM EST
    I like this one. (none / 0) (#76)
    by janarchy on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:58:31 AM EST
    When Hillary Clinton has bragged about how she upsets the right wing, he said he's wanted to tell her, "If you weren't the nominee, the right wing would not be so exercised."

    He wishes he could get that kind of excitement and reaction from anyone. Joe's about as interesting as wall paper paste. Except when he's putting his foot in his mouth...


    Just to add (none / 0) (#82)
    by Edgar08 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:00:56 AM EST
    It should have been Feingold.


    Vice Presidents (none / 0) (#91)
    by facta non verba on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:05:46 AM EST
    Here is a nice overview of Vice Presidents who became Presidents "accidentally" plus a whole bunch of VP trivia.

    Vice Presidents.

    OMG! (none / 0) (#107)
    by Grace on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:14:09 AM EST
    As to Biden teaching constitutional law, he's been in the Senate since Nixon was in the White House. He became a Senator after a three or four year non-descript career as a lawyer.

    He's been a Senator since Hillary was in college?!  Shocking!!  

    I beg somebody... (none / 0) (#160)
    by wellfleetsurf on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 02:13:54 AM EST
    to name a Dem ticket that wouldn't be scrutinized and shredded. Obama was going to catch BS no matter who he picked.  As much as I don't like the two party system, come November there's only three choices: Dem, Rep., or stay home and rake leaves.

    No, he's being scrutinized because his (5.00 / 5) (#172)
    by Valhalla on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 02:25:39 AM EST
    short list had no one admirable on it.

    Trust me, TLers would have rioted with joy had he picked Clark, for instance.  But Clark was underbussed over a month ago.  It's hardly the critics fault if he eliminated anyone good weeks ago.

    Parent

    You mean (5.00 / 5) (#185)
    by janarchy on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 04:05:58 AM EST
    all those Democrats who voted for him in droves when he was running in the primaries? For the past 20 years? Yeah, they're going to be swooning with happiness and fighting one another to get to the polls, no question about it...

    Parent
    RE: "a small minority (5.00 / 2) (#201)
    by oldpro on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:43:16 AM EST
    of Democratic constituents."

    What you don't get is that it is a vital small minority...about the same size as the AA population of the country and larger than the active AA population in the Democratic Party...vital because we care about and work for the issues that make Democrats Democrats...vital because we devote our time and money to the party and it's candidates (run their campaigns, raise their funds, write their op-ed pieces for them, counsel them on strategy and governance and we know the history to save them from screwing up).

    And we always, always vote.

    Not this time.  Our patience has been tested beyond endurance and our loyalty demanded instead of earned with a dishonorable primary.

    At some point, self respect insists that one no longer be an enabler and stop rewarding unacceptable behavior.

    That is what responsible grownups do when the kids get out of hand.

    It's not complicated.  It's called integrity.

    Enough.

    Parent

    So? One ca still (5.00 / 2) (#193)
    by Andy08 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:07:54 AM EST
    think and speak your mind about what you believe in. Besides voting for Congress and writing in a name or leaving the POTUS blank is in itself a democratic choice of what one thinks...

     

    Parent

    I could be mistaken... (none / 0) (#168)
    by wellfleetsurf on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 02:21:31 AM EST
    but I also think he's got a strong position on turning the U.S. into cleaner country by adapting the auto industry to new standards, and fast.

    And his words to Europe in 2005 (none / 0) (#200)
    by Notyoursweetie 0 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:41:31 AM EST
    at the Rice confirmation hearing are a beaut too
    http://edgeoforever.wordpress.com/2008/08/23/vp-texting-your-3-am-call/

    Not unlike Paris Hilton... (none / 0) (#202)
    by oldpro on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:48:18 AM EST
    very attractive.

    So what?

    Is this American Idol?

    How old are you?

    Not exactly (none / 0) (#203)
    by chopper on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 06:23:55 PM EST
    This is not exactly the change I was looking for.

    A black guy and an old guy with hair plugs.

    But then:

    "A senior Obama adviser, speaking on condition of anonymity, said his boss has expressed IMPATIENCE with what he calls a "reverence" inside his campaign for his message of CHANGE and new politics."