Saturday Morning VP Rollout

Kos says:

This has been the best veep rollout EVER. . . . [I]s there a better example than this that old media is getting left out in the cold?

Of course, CNN broke the story last night, so, so much for that. But let's stop for a second and think about this - the story breaks in the middle of the night Friday (I found out 30 minutes ago) and the news "frenzy," such at is, begins on a Saturday morning. Hell of a rollout. Not.

Think what you want about Biden, and I think that given Obama's stubborn and wrongheaded unwillingness to pick Hillary Clinton and put a lock on the election, Biden was the best choice politically that Obama was willing to make (imagine the political disaster if he had picked Sebelius). But the rollout of Biden was disastrously bad, unless the idea is to make sure as few people know as possible. Half of the country will not know until Monday when the Convention starts. Obama should have announced Biden last Monday. An F for the Obama campaign on the mechanics of the rollout.

By Big Tent Democrat, speaking for me only

< AP: Obama's Choice of Biden Shows Lack of Confidence | Hillary Statement On Biden Pick >
  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft

  • Display: Sort:
    Don't forget (5.00 / 4) (#1)
    by andgarden on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:07:58 AM EST
    An easy call (5.00 / 2) (#13)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:16:17 AM EST

    He'll probably help lock up PA (5.00 / 2) (#24)
    by andgarden on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:18:53 AM EST
    Rendell is a big Biden fan, and Biden is well known/liked in the crucial Philly burbs. Sometimes he's called Pennsylvania's 3rd Senator.

    PA is pretty locked up already (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:20:45 AM EST
    it seems to me.

    Ohio, Florida etc, Biden helps too.

    As I said, given the unwillingness to pick Clinton, this was the next best choice politically.


    Pretty much (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by andgarden on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:24:46 AM EST
    But if Obama can make one less trip or spend a million less on Philly TV, that's a net benefit.

    You mean Biden is (none / 0) (#42)
    by Andy08 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:25:42 AM EST
    "The other one" from Scranton, PA.... I can see the campaign taking HRC  commercials and changing her face for his... (snark).

    Oh, he's from Scranton, (none / 0) (#46)
    by andgarden on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:27:16 AM EST
    which ought to make endangered Rep. Paul Kanjorski happy, but he represents Deleware, and so he's well-known in SE PA.

    How does he help in western PA? (none / 0) (#66)
    by cmugirl on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:38:43 AM EST
    Where there are all those hard working, gun-clinging, bitter people (I say that with all due affection, since that's where my whole family is from)?

    Very little (none / 0) (#71)
    by andgarden on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:40:42 AM EST
    Except that, Demographically, NE PA is a lot like SE PA.

    In any case, as Ed Rendell proved in 2002, it's hard or impossible to win PA without making a showing in the Philly collar counties.


    Well (none / 0) (#134)
    by cmugirl on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:03:01 AM EST
    Didn't Obama already win over the Philly counties but got blown out in western PA?  How much more is there to win over - the Main Line?

    Philly area... (5.00 / 0) (#187)
    by p lukasiak on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:23:31 AM EST
    Winning PA isn't about winning Philly and its suburbs -- its about racking up huge margins in the Philly media market.   And while the Philly burbs have been trending "Democratic", the republicans who do get elected tend to far more 'moderate' than the GOP in general -- their Republicans are far-right wingers, and they don't define the GOP in terms of the far-right wing as much as the rest of the country does.  

    In other words, the Philly burbs (and Northeast Philly) are very fertile ground for a candidate like McCain and his "Maverick" message -- and McCain has the potential to keep Obama's margins down in the Philly area sufficiently to put PA in play.  Biden does help Obama in this market because Biden was seen as a the area's most important 'national' Democrat (PA had two GOP senators until recently, and since Bradley left NJ's Democrats haven't had a national profile)


    oops... (none / 0) (#193)
    by p lukasiak on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:24:54 AM EST
    the above should read "their republicans are NOT far right wingers..."

    He split the philly burbs vote 50/50 (none / 0) (#145)
    by andgarden on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:06:30 AM EST
    with Hillary.

    I disagree (none / 0) (#95)
    by Claw on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:48:50 AM EST
    That the rollout was disastrously bad.  Obama was starting to get some very grumpy press coverage over his waiting to pick VP.  At first it worked well because it made it hard for McCain to get his face on TV, but things were starting to turn sour.  I will grant you that the middle of the night thing was kind of stupid.

    Um (none / 0) (#107)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:53:04 AM EST
    Where's the part where you disagree with me?

    Um (none / 0) (#198)
    by Claw on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:28:07 AM EST
    "But the rollout of Biden was disastrously bad"
    That's the part I disagree with.  Disastrously bad is not the same as kind of stupid.  

    There actually was a certain (5.00 / 0) (#21)
    by DCDemocrat on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:18:38 AM EST
    brilliance to the roll out.  I think that Obama's team knew that McCain's team would start rolling out footage of Biden's critiques of Obama.  Indeed, when I woke up this morning, the McCain narrative seemed to be controlling coverage on CNN.  But now, as people are waking up, some of the old hands like Blitzer and Schneider, who seem to really like Biden, are talking positively.  Meanwhile, people are waking up and turning on their televisions.



    It will be the coverage on Monday too (5.00 / 2) (#27)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:19:35 AM EST
    It is a completely idiotic rollout.

    Maybe that's the point (5.00 / 2) (#35)
    by andgarden on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:21:54 AM EST
    When the topic of conversation is Obama himself, Obama doesn't benefit anymore.

    I got bored and annoyed (5.00 / 4) (#48)
    by DCDemocrat on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:27:44 AM EST
    by the roll out, and I am glad it's over.  If Obama becomes president, everything he will have done to become president, we will deem brilliant.  If he loses, he will group him together with Kerry and Dukakis.  Personally, I hope it's the former and not the latter.

    But Kos is a political genius! (5.00 / 3) (#120)
    by BernieO on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:57:47 AM EST
    We all know that making the "old media" look even more foolish than usual by leaving them out in the cold is a great idea. It always helps your campaign when the media is angry with you......

    Seriously, this rollout was just bizarre. To me it felt like the Obama campaign thought they were just playing a big game with the media. (Of course all choosing a president isn't a big deal.)
    I also thought the text message gimmick was tone deaf. It was as if the campaign wanted to leave everyone except his supporters out of the announcement. Nice way to signal that you want to be president of all the people, a uniter, blah blah blah.....  


    People were laughing at me yesterday (5.00 / 2) (#153)
    by inclusiveheart on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:08:17 AM EST
    because I was envsioning people receiving these text messages during the day time when they might actually be with other people - out in public - and perhaps create something of an event in and of itself.  Like on the streets of NY or Chicago or whatever.  I never imagined that Camp Obama would send the text out at a time when the only people who'd be awake and around other people would be at some rave or late night bar.

    not a bad idea.... (5.00 / 4) (#160)
    by p lukasiak on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:11:34 AM EST
    I don't think that the text-messaging thing was a bad idea -- had the selection been made within a day or two of the announcement.  Sure it was an attention getting gimmick -- but as long as it didn't become central to the roll-out and the announcement was made soon after, the 'gimmickry" would have been forgotten in the media coverage of the VP pick.

    But the sheer ridiculousness of the text message gimmick became obvious over the last few days.  The theory was that everyone in America would get sent the message at the same time -- and it appears that the 'technology' isn't yet up to its 'theoretical' potential.   The minute the word "roll out" appeared in conjunction with "text message" announcement, it became a joke, because the media would be reporting on the text message well before MOST people got sent the message.

    The technology (and its limitations) wound up 'running' the campaign -- and I suspect that this gaffe merely reinforces the message that Obama is all about 'style' and 'presentation' and that 'substance' is merely secondary.


    I agree with BTD (5.00 / 1) (#170)
    by litigatormom on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:13:37 AM EST
    It was stupid.  Once Mrs. Greenspan broke the story at 6 freaking p.m. yesterday that Kaine and Bayh (snnnoorrrreeee) were out, there was no point in prolonging the tease.  And assuming that they were planning to officially launch the ticket at a rally this afternoon, why on earth would you wait until Saturday morning, which was apparently the original plan, to start telling people to watch?

    I was out of the country this past week, but there were some rumblings that Obama delayed a mid-week announcement in favor of prolonging the "How Many Houses Do You Own" story.  If that's the case, I agree with BTD even more.  You could do both, IMO.

    BTW, this resigned former Hillary supporter has gone so far as to agree to help raise money for Obama, and I didn't get a text message and my e-mail from Obama didn't arrive in my inbox until 9:30 am.  And I'm taking my daughter to college for the first time this afternoon ((sob)) so let me know how the rally goes, okay?


    Nah, no way would (5.00 / 0) (#183)
    by brodie on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:20:13 AM EST
    it have been smart for the O camp to roll out Biden just as the McMansion story was unfolding.  They wanted to allow that story to be highlighted, and a major announcement about VP would have just swamped the McCain gaffe.  

    They played that one right.

    As to text messaging and the literal timing, which I find in the one instance a nonstory and in the other something of a puzzle, mostlyl that's trivial backstory stuff that will soon be forgotten as the new ticket is publicly unveiled today and the ad wars against it begin.


    brillance? like in fool's gold only! (none / 0) (#118)
    by hellothere on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:57:01 AM EST
    Look (none / 0) (#97)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:49:38 AM EST
    Not liking me is one thing, but give me my credit please. 3 weeks ago Biden was NOT the CW and you are not telling the truth about that.

    And expanding NATO to Georgia is nuts BTW.


    ahem, you're posting OT ;) (5.00 / 0) (#162)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:12:06 AM EST
    Hmmm (none / 0) (#205)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:31:35 AM EST
    Touchy, touchy.

    But expanding NATO into Georgia is lunacy.


    Kos - Kos wrote stingingly about (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by Xanthe on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:12:54 AM EST
    Biden in the past.  I remember Irish Korean and Kos getting into it about Biden more than once.

    But politics is politics - and memories are convenient.  

    Roll-out - really is that more important than the actual governing of the country - Yikes!  but I should read the whole of his article.  

    C'mon... (none / 0) (#166)
    by oldpro on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:12:23 AM EST
    no one suggested that the rollout was more important than governing the country.

    The point is that the 'unassailable brilliance and competence of the Obama campaign' has now been revealed as clumsy and foolish and THAT bit of incompetence does not bode well for governing.

    That's all.

    Deduced by reasoning.


    Change I can't believe in (5.00 / 6) (#6)
    by rise hillary rise on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:12:58 AM EST
    Nothing sends a (non-text) message of change like picking an ossified, lobbyist-bought-and-paid-for gasbag like Biden (D-MBNA).

    Obama may be willing to overlook things like Biden's treatment of Anita Hill, but I'm not.

    overall, this pick is a glimpse into not only Obama's soul, but his "governing" style-long on theatrics and rhetoric, but devoid of risk or real innovation.

    This (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by tek on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:21:22 AM EST
    absolutely shows us Obama's soul.  He's doing what he's been told to do, whether it's his campaign advisor or his ancient history surrogates.  This whole thing, IMO, is a fraud being perpetrated on the American people, or those who have been willing to listen to the Obama hype.

    I tend to agree with (5.00 / 5) (#156)
    by Valhalla on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:09:16 AM EST
    Paul L from the previous posts that this was probably a panic pick when the polls showed that Kaine, Sebelius and Bayh didn't help at all (and maybe hurt) Obama.  With the polls where they are, Obama can't afford any losses at all.

    I've also been wondering though if this isn't some backdoor party pressure going into this pick.  That group of Democratic governors and other prominents last week that called Obama out publicly for being to vague hopey-changey was a iceberg signal, I think.  A lot of SDs must be getting worried about money and the poll numbers.  Anyone who's watched more than one presidential race in the U.S. knows that within MOE in August (leading up to the convention) is not a good place to be.

    Wouldn't surprise me at all if Biden wasn't picked to stabilize the ticket.


    Old media (5.00 / 9) (#7)
    by lentinel on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:13:43 AM EST
    Kos derisively refers to "old media". Reminds me of Rummy's "old Europe" characterization of those who didn't fall in line with the marvelous Iraq war.

    And what are the "new" media? Cell phones?

    Didn't work did it? I found out from the (5.00 / 5) (#20)
    by Teresa on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:18:26 AM EST
    "old" media last night and I didn't even sign up for the cell message. Kos is just silly.

    How can anyone (none / 0) (#28)
    by DCDemocrat on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:20:01 AM EST
    in the first decade of the 21st century not recognize a distinction between the old and new media?  

    The "old" media (5.00 / 7) (#102)
    by Fabian on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:51:43 AM EST
    scooped the "new" media by doing real world work.

    As whoever said, they didn't sit and wait for the phone to ring, they went out there and made the calls and staked out the likely prospects.

    They didn't wait to be told, instead they informed themselves.


    there is no new media just the (5.00 / 6) (#124)
    by hellothere on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:00:02 AM EST
    same old tired hacks using new equipment. duh

    Really? (5.00 / 4) (#11)
    by tek on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:15:18 AM EST
    I don't see how this ticket could be much more disastrous.  Biden also ran for president and didn't make it past Iowa.  Biden is also an "Old Guard" Democrat.  If he wanted a fellow candidate and a status quo Democrat, it should have been Hillary.

    This is looking more like my original conclusion everyday.  The Old Dinosaurs in the Dem Party draft Obama to run and then put one of their own on the ticket with him so they can rule behind the scenes and avoid a Clinton presidency that they feel would diminish their power.  It's Bush/Cheney all over again.  

    Boy that Caroline Kennedy has got great political acumen, no?

    I agree (5.00 / 4) (#12)
    by kempis on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:15:48 AM EST
    It's silly to call this a great rollout. It's great only for the kids who still believe in Santa Obama and loved the squirming waiting game.

    To others, quite possibly to some in the media--the base who they can ill-afford to alienate, it seemed coy and Obama was too cute by half ("that's all you're getting" *grin*). And I don't know about others, but I don't much like for anyone to call me at 3 a.m.. Hillary can handle those 3 a.m. calls, but not I.  And while we may have doubts about Obama's ability to field them, we know now that he can make 3 a.m. calls.

    They waited too late, it leaked, and their "greatest evah" rollout had to be rolled out in the middle of the night. Kos is spinning this like a fanboy. I thought he was over that.

    No (5.00 / 2) (#18)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:17:38 AM EST
    Media loves the Biden pick, confirm the "Beltway Wisdom." the problem is Obama did not give the Media a week to fawn over the choice.

    TERRIBLE rollout.


    right--that was my point (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by kempis on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:21:35 AM EST
    I must not have made it clearly. The media is fine with Biden. I didn't mean to imply otherwise.

    My point was that some in the media may have been irked, however, by the drawn-out and finally awkward rollout.


    the pretty saturday anchors on CNN (5.00 / 0) (#52)
    by Maria Garcia on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:30:00 AM EST
    ...were complaining a teeny bit about having to be at work all night, but everyone else seemed quite thrilled.

    That may be so (none / 0) (#144)
    by americanincanada on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:06:13 AM EST
    but they are also hammering the 'disrespect of the Clinton's' line as well. There has even been some hand-wringing over what will happen at the conventions and mentions of how upset Carville and Begala were.

    Drama. They want drama..... (5.00 / 0) (#169)
    by Maria Garcia on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:13:36 AM EST
    ...and they will have it by hook or by crook. Or should I say crock.

    The (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by tek on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:37:13 AM EST
    media would fawn over whoever Obama picked.

    Okay so... (5.00 / 3) (#15)
    by inclusiveheart on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:16:36 AM EST
    I am not sure that there is any other politician who has been the object of kos' contempt (besides Lieberman) than Joe Biden.  I wonder how he is reconciling that.  He has been nicer about Clinton than he has ever been about Biden - might surprise some people but it is true.  He's never said a positive thing about Biden that I can recall.

    But that was then. (5.00 / 4) (#44)
    by Maria Garcia on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:26:44 AM EST
    no one much cares anymore what (none / 0) (#132)
    by hellothere on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:02:34 AM EST
    kos thinks except himself. i rather doubt the current crop of bloggers there care very much either.

    I would agree (none / 0) (#141)
    by DemForever on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:05:22 AM EST
    if folks here did not spend so much time dissecting what Kos sys

    I don't think it's Kos himself as much as it (5.00 / 7) (#173)
    by Valhalla on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:15:04 AM EST
    is that his opinions are a sort of quick-study bundling of the general fauxgressive line.  It's easier, quicker and just as accurate to see what he says than check through 100 blogs only to find out they all say exactly the same thing.  The echo chamber is just one voice bouncing around after all.

    In that sense, Kos does do a great service to the rest of us, it's a timesaver.


    Yes and the people who adopt (none / 0) (#199)
    by inclusiveheart on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:28:12 AM EST
    what I think of as his more viscious knee-jerk attacks - many of whom have a very limited understanding of any of the personalities or issues - are always interesting to watch in times like these.  Note kos' comment focuses on Obama's team's media manpulation rather than on Biden.  Meanwhile there are posters doing back flips to reconcile the "clean and articulate" comment that kos relentlessly villified and the Bankruptcy Bill issues that he's long railed against.

    Those of us living in the West (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by esmense on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:16:39 AM EST
    got the news from CNN before retiring to bed (relatively early) last night.

    Yes (5.00 / 3) (#19)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:18:25 AM EST
    Those tossup states of California and Washington.


    This is a disaster of a rollout.


    My husband was out with old friends (5.00 / 0) (#23)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:18:52 AM EST
    last night when it happened, they have all been watching pretty intently.  They agree with BTD that Biden was the best pick politically.  He brings a lot of foreign policy experience along with his political experience, and an attitude of speaking of his mind and standing for something even if sometimes unpopular (he would do better to think before he spoke sometimes IMO).  My husband says Obama has improved his electability, this all sounds very bleh and ho hum to me.

    Agree with the general assessment (5.00 / 2) (#112)
    by nell on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:54:51 AM EST
    Biden brings a bit more gravitas. But would that make one who was not otherwise going to vote for Obama pull the lever? Do you really vote for a candidate you were uncomfortable with alone because the VP has experience?

    I like Biden fine and I would have voted for him had he won the nomination. If he had won it with the same disgusting tactics used by the Obama campaign, I might have been disgusted, as I am now, but I am pretty sure I would have still voted for him. Why? Because at least he is qualified and knows what he is doing.

    Obama is not qualified, in my view, and there is no one who he could pick as VP that gives him the political experience and life experience that I believe one needs to effectively govern...

    I guess, for me at least, Biden adds more substance to the ticket but he also makes me wonder what on earth the DNC was thinking fixing this election for Obama. When you see Biden up there with Obama, you cannot help but wonder why he isn't at the top of the ticket...

    I will still be skipping the top of the ticket.


    I don't know why, but it does seem to me (5.00 / 0) (#129)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:01:18 AM EST
    that America views the ticket as the duo that will work together even though often, the VP can be totally sidelined after the election.  I do know that Biden isn't afraid of a camera or a mic and he will probably be an excellent attack dog for Obama.  If the Republicans have any dirt on Obama I think we can count on the 527's getting filthy.  Biden could end up playing a very large role in the election.

    So. when did the text message go out? (5.00 / 1) (#123)
    by jawbone on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:59:19 AM EST
    Was it done in stages or a universal blast...at what time?

    Last night on local NBC news in NYC, they were interviewing people on the street obout The Big Text Message.

    One young woman said she felt so special to be the first to know (oh, dear me, thought I, so tenderly naive). One guy said he didn't care bca he was voting for McCain. But the thing was getting mega MCM coverage. Sheesh.

    But the MCM does focus on the trivial, when they can, and Axelrod knows this.


    They were in a sports bar and watching CNN (none / 0) (#137)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:04:20 AM EST
    so they got the scoop early and not from the text message scenario.  We live in South Alabama, texting here is seen as a form of adolescent rebellion :)

    I agree (5.00 / 5) (#25)
    by facta non verba on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:19:02 AM EST
    It was poorly managed and it also made Biden look bad with his denials -- "I'm not the guy."

    I think Biden actually thought that and that the Obama for whatever reason kept him out of the loop until Thursday. If Obama had made his decision on Wednesday, he should have just announced it within 24 hours. Instead he chose to play games. Poor planning.

    facta (none / 0) (#55)
    by tek on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:34:09 AM EST
    you hit it.  I'm so sick of Obama's game-playing.  Guess the Youth enjoy that.  To me it doesn't have the ring of grown up.  Oh man, another Dubya weakness-he doens't behave like a grown up!

    this campaign reminds me more (5.00 / 3) (#136)
    by hellothere on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:03:55 AM EST
    and more of american idol. geez

    I have a feeling (none / 0) (#135)
    by BernieO on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:03:39 AM EST
    that the campaign was in a panic with the slumping polls. I bet the advisors were arguing with Obama about the need for foreign policy cred after the Russia-Georgia mess but he wasn't buying. As his numbers continued to slip even he had to face the fact that the public was not buying Obama's claim to have experience because he had lived abroad as a kid and has relatives in Africa (one of the dumbest things I have heard from a candidate btw.)

    Yup. Bad. (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by wasabi on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:19:19 AM EST
    I thought that if Team Obama were to be able to carry it off and actually get Biden to Illinois unnoticed by this AM, it would have worked.  But somehow, our crack investigative MSM press managed to track a chartered plane out of Midway and recognize Secret Service protection showing up in Delaware and the jig was up.  Too bad the press aren't so good with things like investigating this administration's crimes.

    I guess ya got the press ya have and not the press you really want...

    Too bad they can't show (5.00 / 3) (#181)
    by Landulph on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:19:31 AM EST
    similar investigative chops for things that actually matter, like, y'know, the trumped-up case for the Iraq War, but I guess nobody's perfect.

    Yet another empty media spectacle. (5.00 / 3) (#36)
    by karmadillo on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:22:36 AM EST
    Fills dead space between commercials, but ultimately as empty as the Obama phenomenon, itself. They promised me a pony and all I got was a lousy doughnut hole. Darn it.

    Exactly (5.00 / 2) (#58)
    by Lou Grinzo on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:35:50 AM EST
    Watching this unfold the last few days, the one term that kept coming to mind is "plot loop".  That's a writing term that refers to a sequence in fiction where a lot of stuff happens but you wind up right back where it started, leaving the reader/viewer/audience wondering what the point was.

    I would not be surprised at all if McCain used that clip of Obama saying "that's all you're gonna get right now" and smiling in a pointed ad.  E.g. "When making the most important decision of his political life, Senator Obama decided to have fun at the American public's expense.  Doesn't America deserve a serious candidate who thinks this election is more than a game?"


    Lou (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by tek on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:38:55 AM EST
    he's playing to college kids who probably act this way to their parents.  He's the Youth candidate, y'know, not quite an adult yet.

    But isn't it endearing?


    Oh, snap! I think you've nailed it! (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by jawbone on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:51:25 AM EST
    This is the Juvenile Campaign--from a 47-year-old.

    Well, they do say that adulthood is actuated lated and later in life for the more recent generations. What I read was that adolescence now lasts to 30 or so for males.

    So, 47? Or is it Axelrod's view of the youth market--er--youth vote?


    Well... (5.00 / 4) (#40)
    by justinboston2008 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:25:09 AM EST
    We can all watch as Dem hopes of winning go down in flames... I am fairly ambivalent about Senator Biden. To be honest, I don't know a whole lot about him and I consider myself to be a political junky. I just know he has been a Senator for 100 years, voted FOR the war, loves the credit card companies and he plagiarized something in the 80's.  

    I just can't see him bringing in the votes of folks who are uncertain about Senator Obama. I also think that the rollout for this was horrible on so many levels.

    For one, they allowed people to speculate that Senator Clinton had a shot and then leak that she wasn't even vetted. Why not make that crystal clear weeks ago?

    Secondly, why use technology that is meant to get the kids all excited to communicate one of the most conventional candidates possible? I feel like I just received an e-mail letting me know my 8-track is available for pick up.

    Thirdly, they let this drama play on for too long. I was actually impressed that the Obama camp was able to do this dance for as long as they did, but they over played their hand and the media let the cat out of the bag. Frankly, they should have broken this by Wednesday of this week at the latest.

    I am so unimpressed with this ticket.  I am going to start researching the third parties for my vote. Cynthia McKinney is looking quite attractive right about now...

    this line: (5.00 / 4) (#175)
    by ccpup on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:15:46 AM EST
    "I feel like I just received an e-mail letting me know my 8-track is available for pick up"

    is going into my Best Blog Lines on a Saturday Morning Hall of Fame.

    Thank you for the laugh.  :-)


    Hasn't he set some kind of record for appearances (none / 0) (#105)
    by jawbone on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:52:33 AM EST
    on the Sunday talk shows? So, he's got TV experience.

    Well said, BTD (5.00 / 6) (#45)
    by JimWash08 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:27:10 AM EST
    Think what you want about Biden, and I think that given Obama's stubborn and wrongheaded unwillingness to pick Hillary Clinton and put a lock on the election, Biden was the best choice politically that Obama was willing to make

    While it was the best choice politically --- basically, for the history books, when Americans look back at this historical election campaign 30-50 years from now --- picking Joe Biden will not guarantee him a win in November, like Hillary would have.

    I also do not think this roll-out "was the best veep roll-out EVER," especially considering that a majority of people have said they received the message at the unearthly hour of 3AM in the morning.

    To me, as a staunch supporter of Hillary, the DIG is plain to see at her. (the 3AM ad)

    PLUS the fact that Hillary:

    • was not even vetted or allowed to make a case to his selection committee;
    • or Bill, two of the most notable figures in the party, were not consulted on the picking process;
    • was not personally told by Barack Obama himself that she would not be picked;

    is extremely disturbing, hurtful and infuriating.

    The fact that Hillary (and Bill) are actually going to HIS convention to raise him up as the 'best choice for President' is also stomach-turning, in light of these recent developments.

    In fact, it was just yesterday, that despite that trashy and shameful hit-piece against her in the New York Times, Hillary still said she would do everything she can to get him elected.

    Barack Obama should be ashamed of himself, seeing his recent behavior and lack of initiative/judgment.

    For that, I cannot -- and will not -- endorse him and his awful behavior with my vote. I've said it on TalkLeft before that my deal-breaker on my vote for Barack Obama was a VP pick who wasn't Hillary.

    Jim (5.00 / 3) (#51)
    by tek on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:29:38 AM EST
    haven't you realized yet that another characteristic Obama shares with Dubya is that HE HAS NO SHAME.  He'll do anything, say anything, to get elected.  

    tek, he just showed us he won't do (5.00 / 2) (#154)
    by hellothere on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:08:23 AM EST
    anything to get elected like nominating hillary for veep. personally i am glad she isn't on the ticket. let biden have all the joy of dealing with this fiasco.

    Let's see (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by tek on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:27:26 AM EST
    how many old, white, male senators who tried to run for president and couldn't gain the confidence of the American people does Obama have in his camp now?  Bwhaaahaaa!

    It's the new politics, if you can't win the nomination, get a puppet and rule in the shadows.

    I'm speaking from my spouse's comments (5.00 / 2) (#57)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:35:23 AM EST
    here, he isn't a political junkie as I am and was out on the town last night mingling when it was announced.  He says that Biden is a known entity and at least among the military right now isn't seen as a loose cannon, you may not agree with Biden but you usually know what you can expect out of Biden.  He brings a sort of stability to the ticket I guess for many of the voting masses.

    I got a similar reaction from (none / 0) (#81)
    by Lahdee on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:44:42 AM EST
    a conservative last night. He said he thought Biden would be good for Obama because "you know what to expect out of him."

    Heh, I wonder if my conservative friend remembers any of Biden's gaffs?


    Pretty fair rollout == (5.00 / 2) (#53)
    by brodie on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:31:33 AM EST
    it garnered a great deal of attention throughout the week as Obama kept the media guessing and most of the coverage surrounding the pick was overall positive for the campaign.

    The mid-week gaffe by McCain about his many mansions, while it probably delayed the announcement, helps too since the WWC, poorest member of the senate Biden can be favorably compared to the out of touch elitist McCain.  Double those economic royalist points if Mac does indeed go with Multiple Choice Mitt for his VP.

    There is a concern still lingering about the hardcore HRC backers, no getting around that.  Probably a suboptimal performance from the Obama camp in this area, but hopefully this will largely be taken care of at Denver.

    How? Are they going to vet her there? (5.00 / 3) (#59)
    by Teresa on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:36:01 AM EST
    brodie, they blew this one. I agree with BTD that Biden is his best non-Hillary pick, but how can you let word out that she wasn't even considered? They should have come up with something much earlier to prepare Hillary supporters that she wasn't under consideration.

    They'll have to overperform (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by brodie on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:46:39 AM EST
    at Denver  -- Obama and all his top surrogate speakers at the convo -- to loudly applaud Hillary for her candidacy and all she's done for the party and the country, and try to encourage the thought, in various indirect ways perhaps, that perhaps an O/Hill ticket wasn't ever going to be a great idea anyway, as I've long said here -- often on and on at great length -- in these threads.

    Still some repair work needed, no question, but I think Denver, if done well, can solve much of it.  

    Of course, there's probably nothing to be done about the truly hardcore Hillaryite holdouts, nor the sneaky Repubs infiltrating various anti-O groups who want to encourage Dem dissension.


    well done did you say? (5.00 / 1) (#168)
    by hellothere on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:13:14 AM EST
    the democrats haven't done anything well in years, so we are to expect well done at the convention. not with this group of leaders!

    Um, they've basically been saying for weeks (none / 0) (#189)
    by jb64 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:23:50 AM EST
    that HRC wasn't under consideration. I don't know why this surprises anyone.

    This reminds me of Dukakis/Bentsen


    Romney as VP (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by justinboston2008 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:38:12 AM EST
    The best thing McCain could do for Obama is choose Romney. As a survivor of  Governor Romney's administration, I have a special hatred for that man... I see McCain nominating someone outside the box.

    Someone (none / 0) (#72)
    by tek on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:41:02 AM EST
    outside the box?  Hillary?

    That would be out of the box... (none / 0) (#91)
    by justinboston2008 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:46:50 AM EST
    I wouldn't be surprised if he nominated a female VP. Carly Fiorina would be an interesting choice. They could play up her ouster from HP as an example of misogyny, and she would shore up the soccer mom vote.

    McCain is too close in the polls (5.00 / 0) (#114)
    by brodie on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:55:51 AM EST
    to go too far outside the box -- and does not enjoy the absolute firm and loyal support of the RW base sufficient to go prochoice.

    Ridge is probably out -- prochoice, couldn't compete with Biden in PA either probably.  Also subliminally reminds people of J. Edgar Hoover.  

    Lieberman another prochoicer would absolutely cause a ruckus at their convention.

    Looks like they'll go Multiple Choice and try for Michigan.  Plus they'll need someone of his verble ... dexterity (ahem) .. in order to compete with the capable oratory and debating skills of Biden.


    McCain's support (none / 0) (#185)
    by ccpup on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:20:34 AM EST
    among Republicans is much stronger (in the mid- to high-80s) than Obama's is among Democrats (mid- to low-70s) right now.

    His pick of Biden doesn't help him with those voters he still needs to reach:  women, blue collar and rural, groups still gravitating toward McCain as Obama's missteps pile up.


    How could it garner attention midweek (none / 0) (#70)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:39:39 AM EST
    when it was announced last night?

    You make no sense.


    Sorry, but from what I saw this wk (none / 0) (#104)
    by brodie on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:52:05 AM EST
    in medialand, there were only two stories outside the Olympics -- O's VP pick and Many McMansion's gaffe.

    But I also wonder if pre-McMansion, whether TeamO hadn't initially counted on a Thursday rollout.  

    Whatever, we don't know and it doesn't matter.

    O got huge pub from this one, a good deal more than he would have had it announced it without all the deliberate buildup of suspense.

    Only thing that worries me is the Hillary angle in all this.  That one was probably not well handled.


    Obama's pick of BIDEN (none / 0) (#163)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:12:14 AM EST
    happened last night.

    Generic "who is he going to pick?" coverage does not help.


    Agree (none / 0) (#201)
    by NvlAv8r on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:28:38 AM EST
    It was probably worth it to delay to play up the McCain befuddlement with his housing situation.  Really, this roll out so far is small stuff...it really is just a tempest in a teapot until we see them together.  
    All of last week was "Who will he choose?!!" and now Obama has constant media coverage all weekend and then the convention starts, keeping the coverage up.  
    The rollout was a solid "OK"...nothing exciting.

    One slight problem (none / 0) (#208)
    by BrianJ on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 04:38:22 PM EST
    Obama already suffered from overexposure.  How did even more publicity solve that?

    Rollout bad, choice good (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by wasabi on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:35:22 AM EST
    The biggest question people have in their minds is if Obama is ready to take on the job.  People are desparate for change in this country.  They are just not sure if Obama is experienced enough.  Biden will help alleviate their concerns in this respect.  It's a good pick for him I think, although not my first choice.
    Now let's watch Biden rip into the Repubs.  Let's see him tie Bush around McCain.  It will be entertaining.

    biden isn't going to add or detract that (none / 0) (#180)
    by hellothere on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:19:07 AM EST
    much from the obama campaign. it is now on shaky ground and this choice doesn't change it. the only thing obama did was choose someone who don't hurt him as much as the other choices. gee! is this what all the hoopla was about? give me a break!

    it will change it (none / 0) (#188)
    by ccpup on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:23:32 AM EST
    once the McCain ad starts running.  You know, the one where Biden, while standing right next to Barack, reasserts his belief that Obama doesn't have the experience to be President?  And then cuts to a clip of Biden saying McCain would be good for the Country?

    Yeah, that one.  It may help move the numbers, but not in the way Obama-Biden hoped.


    yup, there is that. (none / 0) (#197)
    by hellothere on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:27:53 AM EST
    "we are the ones we have been waiting for?" no, not really senator.

    But basically BO picked another contender (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by nulee on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:36:41 AM EST
    in this year's contest for president and one who was a big loser.  Obama is a big chicken, I have no respect for him and am so disappointed that he is willing to take the party down with him.

    So better the dangerous fraud you know (McCain)? (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by andgarden on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:38:59 AM EST
    Sorry, but I can't take you seriously.

    Not taking them seriously (none / 0) (#98)
    by Florida Resident on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:50:10 AM EST
    may cost the GE.

    fraud? well that charge can (none / 0) (#186)
    by hellothere on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:21:20 AM EST
    be applied to a number of politicans. the democrats don't have much to say for themselves after the last two years. they are part of the washington mess and that includes biden and obama.

    Personally, I don't think the 3AM release was... (5.00 / 2) (#76)
    by EL seattle on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:42:51 AM EST
    ...a deliberate slam at Hillary's "3AM" ad at all.

    More likely, the Obama team was fine-tuning the technical side of the release for such a long time (for no really good reason) that the traditional media finally got tired of being jerked around and ran with what they had at midnight.  Once the Obama team realized they weren't in control of the information anymore, they sent out the text message.

    The text message ploy was not a bad idea, but the Obama folks dropped the ball on it in a very public manner.  No runs, no hit, one big error.

    But that's just my own speculation.

    I think you're exactly right. (5.00 / 0) (#165)
    by indy in sc on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:12:18 AM EST
    It seems to me that they planned to send the text out at a reasonable hour today, but the MSM broke the story last night and they had to send the text out ahead of schedule so that those who had not heard from CNN last night would still feel like they had been "the first to know."

    That way, the media could cite the text as the source for their story this morning instead of saying the text has not gone out, but we already know from unnamed "Democratic sources."  

    IMO, that is the part of the roll-out that was botched--the leaks that allowed CNN to break the story ahead of their planned text.


    I frankly (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by tek on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:44:07 AM EST
    don't see how people believe that Americans are going to be comforted and happy with Biden because he has run for president several times and couldn't garner any serious showing of support.  Obviously, he is not someone Americans admire and respect and want in the highest office.

    Bad pick IMO (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by Saul on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:45:33 AM EST
    Most people will not like this choice.  IMO this will be more negative for Obama than positive. Biden is a rambler when asked questions. He goes on and on and usually gets him in trouble.  Plus he has the Anita Hill stigma with him and that does not go good with women voters.

    Dead cat bounce pick? (5.00 / 2) (#122)
    by p lukasiak on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:59:10 AM EST
    Politically, I think the Biden pick is problematic.  I think it will provide a 'bounce' because a lot of voters who prefer a "Generic Democrat" need to be "reassured" about Obama.

    But it may be a dead cat bounce, because its so contrary to everything (or what little) that Obama has stood for -- while Biden may be a 'reassuring' pick to some voters, it makes it even easier to think of him as an empty suit -- a candidate without the experience needed to be president who simply spouts platitudes that he thinks people want to hear.

    I also think that the Biden choice is going to have a profound impact on the convention -- the whole theme of 'change' and 'running against Washington' can no longer be in the forefront... indeed, I can't think of any 'positive' theme that is available to Obama right now, and either the convention will be even more content-free than it would have been, or its going to consist of relentless attacks on the GOP and McCain.


    I said last night that one of the (5.00 / 3) (#171)
    by Anne on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:13:37 AM EST
    problems with Biden is that his record and his positions, along with the hours and hours of video and audio that are right now being gone over, negate many of the potential lines of attack against the GOP.

    Biden doesn't reinforce Obama's message in any compelling way; if Obama sticks to his themes, Biden makes Obama look like he's running for Hypocrite-in-Chief.  If Obama shifts his message to accommodate Biden's presence, he's no longer a "new" kind of politician, he's just another say-anything pol.

    As for the rollout...pfffft.  Air out of the big ballon of expectations.  Did Obama really - really - think he was going to keep the media from finding out before they could get out the text messgage?  Did he really think the media would defer to him, and not break the story as soon as they had it?

    I give Biden until just past the convention before he says something he will have to spend a week explaining, during which time, all the people who were thinking Biden was a reassuring pick will be reaching for the Tums and re-thinking it.


    Reconsidered.... (5.00 / 4) (#88)
    by p lukasiak on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:46:15 AM EST
    Obama should have announced Biden last Monday. An F for the Obama campaign on the mechanics of the rollout.

    what makes you think that Obama had chosen Biden by Monday.

    This looks more like a gigantic cluster** to me.   The campaign had settled on Kaine (or Bayh...but probably Kaine) because he was the best candidate to reinforce the themes of the campaign ('change' -- specifically running against the "same old Washington politics") while providing an electoral college advantage.  

    But then the impact of the Paris/Britney ad 9and controversy) started showing up in the internal (and then externam) polling -- and showed that Obama had huge problems -- and that Kaine only exacerbated those problems.   So the campaign went looking for a VP candidate who could "re-assure" voters.  

    Hillary was the obvious choice, but either because of internal opposition, and/or reluctance/demands from Clinton, no agreement was reached.  It was getting late, and Biden was probably the best person who was "reassuring" enough and willing to be the VP.  

    One thing that I can say about Joe Biden is that he isn't the kind of guy who would tell reporters "I'm not the guy" unless he had good reason to think he wasn't the guy.  Its clear that Team Obama never let Biden know that he was being 'seriously considered' by last week -- this strongly suggests that Team Obama was in disarray (or completely clueless).  Biden should have received a heads up that the decision was not final, and that he might be called on.  The fact that he wasn't is a sign of serious problems with Team Obama -- either hubris, or a last minute change of course.

    Potentially, yeah (none / 0) (#94)
    by andgarden on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:48:39 AM EST
    Totally tin foil on my part but..... (none / 0) (#155)
    by Maria Garcia on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:08:50 AM EST
    ...I immediately had that thought when Obama was in Virginia and was reputed to have met personally with Kaine's staff to thank them. It felt to me like that meeting was a little bit of a concilation prize for Kaine and his people because he found out he wasn't the pick after having told them that he was.

    that sounds about right! (none / 0) (#190)
    by hellothere on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:23:56 AM EST
    Whatever (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by Lora on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:47:40 AM EST
    I wasn't impressed with Biden when he was a presidential candidate and I don't really see why I should be impressed with him now.  I guess he will appeal to the more conservative elements of the Democratic party and perhaps appeal to the less conservative elements of the Republican party.  So I suppose from a political standpoint, he's a good choice.

    I'm so sick of this game.

    Man (5.00 / 3) (#99)
    by lilburro on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:51:07 AM EST
    I am so glad I did not wake up at 3 am to some g*d@@n text message telling me something I already knew.

    Kos obviously wrote that post just before Bayh was told it wasn't him and the cat ran out of the bag.  That is some bad timing.  I mean - brilliant timing.

    Maybe Obama just wanted to make a big enough fuss so that there is no way McCain can match him.  After all McCain has the opportunity to counter punch and speculation would have been rife.  Now I for one will be too exhausted to follow the process.

    3 AM? Not so much. (5.00 / 0) (#113)
    by Radix on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:55:36 AM EST
    Some folks did get there messages at 3am, however, some got theirs earlier. Which means that they did it in groups and it just so happens there was a 3am group, just like there were  2:30am, 2:45 and so on.
    There are lots of reason to not like Obama, this just isn't one of them.

    Oh, never mind, it was a 2:30AM text! (none / 0) (#117)
    by andgarden on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:56:52 AM EST
    My guess is that (none / 0) (#149)
    by Radix on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:07:55 AM EST
    the texts started at 2am eastern, 11pm pacific.

    Spin It Like You Mean It (none / 0) (#182)
    by JimWash08 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:19:47 AM EST
    All the CNN anchors and reporters have said they received it around 3AM ... and I've seen it mentioned on the New York Times, Washington Post and Los Angeles Times web sites.

    That is going to be narrative because most everything is set and occurs by the Eastern timezone. It isn't and will not look good Team OBiden.


    Around 3am? When (5.00 / 0) (#195)
    by Radix on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:26:49 AM EST
    were the messages sent? Do text messages always get delivered on time or is there a delay? As for Team Obama, if you look at all of my posts you won't find one in which I offer Obama my support. I just believe that you should like or dislike a person for what they have actually done, not what it is you've imagined they've done. As I said, there are plenty, from my perspective, of reasons not to vote for Obama, this message issue just isn't one of them.

    is this kos guy on heavy drugs (5.00 / 2) (#133)
    by cpinva on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:02:37 AM EST
    or something? or is he just really, really stupid?

    personally, based on his past few months of posts, i'm leaning towards option two: he's just really, really stupid. unfortunately, as ron white has noted, you can't fix stupid.

    obama's choice of biden is, at best, underwhelming. hence, the need to announce it in as stealthy a way as possible, in the (ultimately) futile hope that no one will notice, until the convention, when it will be too late to nominate clinton for president.

    the good ship obama is taking on water quickly; seems those water tight bulkheads weren't.

    Kos plays to peanut gallery. (5.00 / 3) (#151)
    by Fabian on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:08:00 AM EST
    So instead of being consistent, he has a tendency to follow the main stream as it meanders hither and yon.

    They probably were going (none / 0) (#2)
    by samtaylor2 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:11:57 AM EST
    Tell everyone earlier, but if they had the McCain house story, and their connecting it to the economy would have been lost.  

    They lost it yesterday (5.00 / 5) (#9)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:15:13 AM EST
    No one cared about the house story and frankly, no one cares now.

    If they had roll Biden out on Monday, Biden could have been hammering it all weekend.

    You got it exactly backwards.


    Having you been watching TV (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by samtaylor2 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:37:13 AM EST
    Reading the blogs?  That has been THE story.  You might not care, I don't care.  But I don't care because I already thought the guy and the republican parties economic policies were way out of touch and benefited the wealthy.  The thing that is unfortuantely so true about TV and election politics is that if you repeat it enough, it "becomes" true.  Think Obama doesn't support White working class people.  That is just dumb, but it was said enough, so now t is the issue.  OR for the TL audience think Clinton thinks about Obama being shot.  It was said enough so it becoems "true".  The housing is a  great way to start the talk about the Republican failed economy polcies, and to get the story to stick.  

    I thought the VP pick was the story Sam? (5.00 / 1) (#93)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:48:33 AM EST
    Make up your mind.

    On Friday, the VP snore drama was the story.

    As for today, NO ONE is talking about the Houses story.

    You need to wake up and understand I am no cheerleader. YOu can find that elsewhere.

    This VP thing was totally botched. Totally.


    I don't need chearleading (none / 0) (#110)
    by samtaylor2 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:53:53 AM EST
    I just disagree with you.  I very confortable in my beliefs about this.  

    Sorry, my posts are welcome.  Peace out.


    Heh (none / 0) (#177)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:16:21 AM EST
    Good for you Sam. Ignorance is bliss.

    Well (5.00 / 1) (#125)
    by cmugirl on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:00:24 AM EST
    I work with a bunch of Dems, who are supporting Obama, and even THEY didn't really talk about McCain's houses.  One comment was all I heard.

    Seriously (5.00 / 3) (#179)
    by nell on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:17:45 AM EST
    It is such a dumb line of attack on the Obama campaign's house when he is living in a mansion that a convicted felon helped him buy.

    If anything, it just shows that Cindy McCain is independent, manages her money well and is obviously generous with her family, buying condos for her daughter, for her elderly aunt, for McCain's mother...we should all be so kind to our families.

    You know, I have never understood the rich-people bashing that the Democrats always engage in. Are some rich people selfish with their money? Sure. But many others are quite generous with their money, including Cindy McCain, and I, for one, am glad that she is donating her money to projects abroad that I do not have the ability to fund.

    And honestly, wouldn't we all like to have a bit more money in our pockets? I don't care how much money a candidate has as long as he or she is committed to helping all of us achieve prosperity and creating a level playing field (by providing universal health care, equal educational opportunities, etc). You can argue about whether McCain's plans do that, but what on earth is the point of bashing how many houses the guy has or does not have?


    That's where they blew it (5.00 / 3) (#17)
    by dianem on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:17:16 AM EST
    That ridiculous McCain "house" story started at the same time as they were planning on announcing the VP pick, which meant that the VP momentum faded as people started talking about McCain's and Obama's houses. This was, at best, a minor "gotcha" attack on McCain, and there was no way it could develop any real momentum during the VP rollout and Dem convention, but they put out a commercial anyway, then completely blew the rollout. After talking for weeks about their wonderful text messaging announcement, they didn't get the text messages out until well after everybody knew who the choice was. At 3 am. Presidents may answer phones at 3 am, but virtually nobody else does. This campaign is supposed to be soemthing special. How could they have blown the timing on this so badly?

    You're tellin' me! (none / 0) (#3)
    by inclusiveheart on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:12:07 AM EST

    As bad as Kerry's big midnight speech.

    Rolling eyes.

    He did that? (none / 0) (#4)
    by andgarden on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:12:48 AM EST
    (I missed the '04 Convention--I was in Europe all summer).

    No he didn;t (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:14:19 AM EST
    Have no idea what the commenter is referring to. Possibly McGovern's 3 AM speech in 72.

    You have no idea what (5.00 / 2) (#33)
    by inclusiveheart on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:21:37 AM EST
    I am talking about because nobody saw the speech.

    Heh (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:26:22 AM EST
    You got me there. I forgot that particular speech.

    Could have done him some good (none / 0) (#69)
    by inclusiveheart on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:39:24 AM EST
    too, but his press team totally blew it on the timing.

    Yes he did. (none / 0) (#29)
    by inclusiveheart on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:20:06 AM EST
    Clearly, (none / 0) (#38)
    by DCDemocrat on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:23:39 AM EST
    you weren't talking about the convention.  The speech you referenced was in September.  It's not analogous.  McGovern's speech would be analogous to what you accused Kerry of.

    I went to Wikipedia (none / 0) (#41)
    by DCDemocrat on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:25:19 AM EST
    to check the dates of the Democratic Convention in 2004.  I thought it was early August.  Actually, it was July 26 to July 29, 2004.

    Kerry's speech (none / 0) (#34)
    by DCDemocrat on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:21:51 AM EST
    was in the middle of primetime.  CNN followed it immediately with a critique by Mehlman.  It was very bad form, and CNN had to let McAuliff immediately critique George Bush's speech at the GOP convention.  They fell all over themselves apologizing for it and explaining that turnabout is fair play.

    Wrong. (none / 0) (#74)
    by inclusiveheart on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:42:00 AM EST
    From the News Hounds link above:

    John Kerry delivered a "midnight speech" tonight, responding to the allegations made by Zell Miller, Dick Cheney, George Bush, and others at the Republican National Convention. Kerry's speech, taking place in Springfield, Missouri, began at 12:00 midnight ET.

    Emphasis mine.

    They should have waited until morning.


    It (none / 0) (#79)
    by DCDemocrat on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:44:01 AM EST
    was a campaign speech in Missouri in September, not Kerry's acceptance speech in Boston.  

    I have no idea what your (none / 0) (#111)
    by inclusiveheart on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:54:34 AM EST
    criteria for comparison here is.  You're not making sense.  

    The comparison that I made was between two pivitol moments in two different campaigns neither of which have to do with convention speeches at all.

    Obama announces his VP pick at 3am.

    Kerry finally responds to GOP slander at midnight.  Nobody noticed Kerry's speech except a few die hards - most Democrats don't even remember or know about that speech because so few people saw it at the time.

    Of course, people will eventually find out that Biden is the VP, but they lost the opportunity to give Biden the spotlight and to introduce him properly before the convention which will be all about Obama - it was a bad roll out and the 3am SATURDAY announcement is symbolic of that to me.

    Campaigns should schedule their campaigning during times that Americans are actually awake IMO.

    And just a tid bit - over there in China where they were awake - they were playing ping pong with Today show hosts - not talking about the Democratic VP lol - How I found out this morning?  I switched from local NBC to MSNBC to see what Olympic coverage they had because NOBODY had said a word on the Today show about the VP pick so I figured it had not happened yet.


    How many speeches (none / 0) (#148)
    by DCDemocrat on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:07:17 AM EST
    did Kerry make in 2004?  You could have rolled out any damn minute of the day from 12:00 am till 11:59 pm that had suited your narrative.  

    Too cute by half.


    Let's just agree to disagree then. (5.00 / 4) (#178)
    by inclusiveheart on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:16:46 AM EST
    You think it is clever for politicians to deliver major speeches and make important announcements in the middle of the night and I don't.

    He knew that most people would be unhappy (none / 0) (#10)
    by Saul on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:15:14 AM EST
    with the choice so he held it back as long as he could.  That's why.  

    Plus this text announcement at 3 am was just ridiculous.  Why so early in the morning and on a Saturday?  Here again looks like he was trying to hold the bad news as long as he could.

    If I were going to pick a time for a news dump (5.00 / 4) (#14)
    by andgarden on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:16:30 AM EST
    3AM on Saturday would be it.

    Yep (none / 0) (#22)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:18:44 AM EST
    Yes, if it were just a news dump (none / 0) (#146)
    by Birmingham Blues on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:06:45 AM EST
    Waking people up with a text message is likely to irritate a lot of them.

    that's what I thought too. (none / 0) (#50)
    by rise hillary rise on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:29:02 AM EST
    Obama was being coy yesterday......acting like he was trying to keep people in suspense. seems more like embarrassment. this isn't exactly an electrifying pick IMO.

    not electrifying (5.00 / 0) (#87)
    by DCDemocrat on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:45:44 AM EST
    but solid.  Very solid.  Very presidential.  My estimation of Obama has risen.

    Does Markos(Kos) even believe himself?? (none / 0) (#37)
    by Andy08 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:23:22 AM EST
    Indeed CNN  had it but even before them Steve Clemons knew it and said it clearly two days ago...

    Net 3pts? (none / 0) (#64)
    by andgarden on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:37:39 AM EST
    When you have a close election, that's easily the difference between winning and losing.

    Here's how to judge it (none / 0) (#75)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:42:35 AM EST
    Put up matchups.

    This poll question is meaningless.

    More or less likely is thew worst question in polling.

    Who are you going to vote for is the question.

    If it makes 3 points more Obama supporters more likely to vote for him, that is useless.

    IF it makes 10% undecideds less likely to vote for him, that is bad.

    It is a nonsense question.


    I'm sure the public polls (none / 0) (#82)
    by andgarden on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:44:43 AM EST
    will tell us within a few days.

    This was a great role out (none / 0) (#77)
    by samtaylor2 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:42:55 AM EST
    Never before has a VP selection got this much attention.  And thus, the Obama camapaign has gotten a ton of coverage.  Not liking the choice is different then not recognizing the buzz that came from this rollout.  Personally, he seems like a nice guy, and someoone who if, God forbid Obama was incapacitated, could govern effectively until the next election.

    The selection has gotten no attention (5.00 / 4) (#83)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:44:45 AM EST
    The lead up got a lot of attention to the point of boredom.

    As for this pick getting more attention than most, you must be new to this. This was about par for all the others I have seen, except there wasno payoff at the end of this one because the rollout came at 3 AM on Friday night.


    I'm starting to re-think this (5.00 / 1) (#119)
    by robrecht on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:57:05 AM EST
    Press attention all this past week.

    Sunday news shows will be all about it.

    1st thing Monday all about it into the convention.

    Maybe it wasn't so bad conisidering the Olympics the last couple of weeks.

    But I'm not that media savvy so feel free to tell me why this is wrong, but I'm beginning to think that for the majority of non--political junkies this roll-out isn't so bad for turning the page of the Olympics.


    Excuse me? (5.00 / 1) (#138)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:04:46 AM EST
    Did you think the Democratic convention would NOT have gotten all the attention on Sunday? And next week?

    It was a wasted opportunity for good press for your VP pick this week.

    Worst rollout ever. By far.


    Of course (none / 0) (#152)
    by robrecht on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:08:12 AM EST
    But now Biden as the VP pick will be more substantive than stories about how the balloons are released from the ceiling.  I don't know, just a thought.

    Politics substantive? (none / 0) (#200)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:28:34 AM EST

    Hell, they could have been talking about Scranton PA for a week.


    What can't be denied is that (none / 0) (#143)
    by chel2551 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:06:08 AM EST
    the campaign knew the pick would be unpopular.  I can't see any minds being changed at this point, especially after the republicans get done with both of them.  

    Besides the choice gives the lie to all the Obama supporters' talking points over the course of the campaign.  All Hillary's supposed evils that got them foaming at the mouth are also owned by Biden.  

    It will come back to bite them.  


    I think that can be denied-- (5.00 / 0) (#196)
    by indy in sc on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:27:36 AM EST
    and vigorously.  The pick may not be popular around here, but it is roundly being praised as a good pick.  I find it reminiscent of Clinton's pick of Gore in that I recall the CW then being that those who had been unsure about Bill or even disliked him, were reassured by Gore.  I remember people saying "at least we get Gore if we vote for Clinton" and some wishing the ticket were inverted with Gore at the top, but willing to vote for Clinton because of the 2fer.  If Obama can get enough of that sentiment from the people who have been skeptical of him and awaiting this pick, it will be a win for him.

    I'm not there btw, I like Obama just fine as a candidate and didn't need this pick to validate him, but I know that some do.


    I supported Hillary all along (none / 0) (#167)
    by robrecht on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:12:54 AM EST
    and thought she or Clark would be the best ticket.  But among many Biden will be a popular pick, not so much around here.  Chuck Hegel has already released a very positive statement, practically an endorsement of Obama-Biden.

    I hope you realize (5.00 / 1) (#174)
    by chel2551 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:15:19 AM EST
    how that makes many of us want to run for the hills.

    Hagel, a conservative repub from the red state of Nebraska, likes the ticket.

    Oh goody.


    But then we're the bad Democrats.... (5.00 / 2) (#184)
    by Maria Garcia on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:20:32 AM EST

    Sorry, I don't remember (none / 0) (#191)
    by robrecht on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:24:18 AM EST
    Of course (none / 0) (#176)
    by robrecht on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:15:52 AM EST
    I have Been very involved (none / 0) (#100)
    by samtaylor2 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:51:08 AM EST
    In the last 2 elections.  Lieberman got a little attention because of the Jew thing.  People were happy with the Edwards pick (which I couldn't understand- but that is coming from a son of a doctor and medical student), but I think this roll out was amazing(as do pretty much all the pundants on NPR yesterday).

    What a surprise. (none / 0) (#121)
    by chel2551 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:58:47 AM EST
    but I think this roll out was amazing(as do pretty much all the pundants on NPR yesterday).

    As far as the opinions of "pundants" (I guess doctors are notorious for their handwriting because they can't spell), they have about as much credibility as the dirty socks under your bed.


    DOn't get me started about Gore (none / 0) (#127)
    by brodie on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:00:38 AM EST
    picking Lieberman.  Al in his own "raging moderate" way was trying to go outside the box, as only Al could I suppose.

    It was called oxymoronically a "safe unorthodox" pick.  Someone inside the Gore team, who'd been firmly agin (angering Al) said of JL:  He's Mr July, when you need Mr October.

    Compared to both JL and the very disappointing disappearing shrinking VP candidate Edwards, the Biden pick I predict will be a winner -- on the trail, in the debates and in office.


    It won;t hurt (5.00 / 2) (#150)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:07:56 AM EST
    I'll say that. But the rollout was awful. Worst ever.

    apparently (none / 0) (#147)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:06:56 AM EST
    You forgot how the VP pick was covered.

    BTW, no VP pick in history got better and more extensive press than Lieberman (Ferraro got more extensive press but really bad press).

    I have no quarrel with the pick, given the NO HILLARY paramters, I am talking about the rollout. And if you are arguing the pick of BIDEN has gotten more attention than any other, then you are not worth talking to about politics imo.


    I think that when one of the more important (none / 0) (#78)
    by tigercourse on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:43:27 AM EST
    moments of your campaign is a Friday night news dump, you've got some problems.

    Anyway, Biden is better then a bunch of the other possibilities. As I've said, picking a Cheney worked for Bush.

    Who is that pick going to be? (none / 0) (#89)
    by samtaylor2 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:46:35 AM EST
    There is no one, unless they have some way brought Regan back to life?  

    I so wish they pick Lieberman.  It actually might help McCain, but do you realize the disaster that would happen down ticket to Republicans?  It would be wonderful.  And hopefully, they would allow Hillary to then take her monstrous majority and do something with it.

    Clinton obviously (5.00 / 1) (#158)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:11:08 AM EST
    Sheesh Sam, stop the BS.

    Just a wee sip (none / 0) (#96)
    by Lahdee on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:48:54 AM EST
    of the koolaide and anything looks like best veep rollout EVER!

    I sure hope Obama/Biden wins this thing because if not some Bloggers are going to look very, very silly.

    Woohoo let's hear it for the middle class champion (none / 0) (#106)
    by cawaltz on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:52:56 AM EST
    Okay seriously, if this doesn't prove that Obama is out of touch with the middle class nothing will. I guess Barack Obama really IS for regulation, as long as it is regulation that benefits corporate America(like the credit card industry). Well, I'm a woman of my word he didn't pick Kaine so I won't actively campaign against him. That said, I wouldn't expect me to show up amd vote for him, his choice is a disappointment and flies in the face of reason if the point was to unite and win. Sigh.

    I wouldn't put much stock (none / 0) (#108)
    by JimWash08 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:53:09 AM EST
    into a poll that was done
    • on a Friday night
    • before Biden was 'officially' announced as the pick

    However, having said that, I have no doubt that while Obama will get that bump, it will be small and short-lived.

    Biden's got a colorful and tainted history, which will all come to surface in the coming week(s). He's made lousy decisions, said horrible things, and made ludicrous claims in all his 35 years of 'experience.'

    Wait till the GOP, McCain campaign and 527 groups rev up their engines and really dig into their archives and crank up their advertising bureaus. Now they know their target.

    And they've already hit the ground running.

    He hardly made a dent in this election cycle, so he doesn't bring with him a sizable load of in-the-pocket supporters. I'm not sure he even got 10% of the number of the votes that either Obama or Hillary got.

    In Defense of the Strategy... (none / 0) (#109)
    by The Troubadour on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:53:40 AM EST
    ...first let me say that I am not pleased with the pick. Hillary Clinton was clearly the best choice.

    Given that, the timing was for one reason only: to allow the McCain campaign virtually no time to start its oppo ads before the big Springfield event. That's the only reason for the way it unfolded. And since we see an ad is now already up, the last thing Obama could have was a week's worth of negative ads against Biden before the convention.

    In this sense, the orchestration was masterful.

    However, the choice was not. I'm not very pleased.

    Not good orchestration (5.00 / 2) (#128)
    by lizpolaris on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:01:05 AM EST
    because by making an announcement in the frikkin middle of the night, Obama completely missed any positive news cycle.  Already, the day begins with the Republican oppo ads running right next to the announcement.  What a mess.

    That is pretty silly (none / 0) (#131)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:01:50 AM EST
    They can put up ads anytime. Including today.

    And of course, they had one (none / 0) (#140)
    by andgarden on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:05:05 AM EST
    LOL - Not the best veep roll out ever (none / 0) (#115)
    by lizpolaris on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:56:38 AM EST
    Imo, this is the worst media blunder ever.  See my questions on why anyone thought this strategy would be a good idea over at MyDD, if I haven't been banned or removed yet.

    Seems like the Obama campaign can't handle a simple press conference.

    After this long, game-show style 'reveal' build up, how to make the announcement and get some good publicity?  Schedule a press conference for 3pm, with you and your new best buddy veep pick.  Just before said presser, sent out the long awaited test message.  Then step in front of microphones saying what a fine person you are about to introduce and how well you will work together.  And then, let the veep choice speak.  Sit back and watch the Friday news cycle bloom out your message.

    Is this really so complicated?  Guess so...

    IMO Obama is not taking (none / 0) (#116)
    by Florida Resident on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:56:47 AM EST
    them seriously either.  That could be a mistake.

    They feel the same about you (none / 0) (#139)
    by cawaltz on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:04:50 AM EST
    and considering the "great progressive" who was gomna change Washington(just like he was gonna filibuster the FISA bill)chose a Washington insider I'm more inclined to go with their perception of stupidity, vice yours.

    When I was reading about the candidates' (none / 0) (#142)
    by Teresa on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:05:39 AM EST
    positions last fall, I think that Biden's health care plan was one of the worst (along with Richardson's). If I recall correctly, this doesn't give me much hope for a good health care plan.

    What will Biden do about his partitioning plan for Iraq now? Had that already been thrown out by him?

    The conservative blogs are loving the choice (none / 0) (#157)
    by cmugirl on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:09:57 AM EST
    Not good when conservatives are already throwing ammo - 8 hours into an announcement.

    WARNING - links to conservative sites

    The Corner

    Free Republic


    Do you think they would have sat silently by (5.00 / 1) (#164)
    by DemForever on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:12:15 AM EST
    if Obama had picked Hillary or Clark?  My guess is that Biden was high on the list of who they did not want to see.

    Gephardt (5.00 / 1) (#194)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:26:03 AM EST
    That is who they feared . . .

    Saturday roll out okay (none / 0) (#159)
    by Rashomon66 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:11:32 AM EST
    Completely disagree.
    I'm not sure it matters if half the country knows or not. Hell, half the country doesn't even vote. Be assured just about everyone who votes will know it is Biden today and certainly by Monday. Why do we need fireworks for a VP choice? Many won't care because they have already decided who they will vote for.
    I think the Biden choice is a good one considering the state of the world today. Biden is very outspoken against the GOP and he might also snag some working class folks.

    Whatever (5.00 / 1) (#192)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:24:40 AM EST
    Who cares  how much reach you get? I mean nobody cares anyway right?

    Funniest rationalization of all. Congrats.


    The whole thing reminds me of Fitzmas (none / 0) (#206)
    by akaEloise on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:31:53 PM EST
    Days, weeks, of speculation and anticipation.  Constantly refreshing websites looking for a bulletin.  Dozens of diaries every hour on Kos speculating on how many ponies we're going to get.  Dozens of meta-diaries scolding or spoofing the speculator diaries.  And finally, the huge anticlimax.  Biden may be okay, but he's the VP equivalent of an indictment of perjury for Scooter after you had the prospect of Rove being done for treason dangled before your eyes.

    By announcing at 3am EST, Obama and his (none / 0) (#207)
    by BronxFem on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 02:35:45 PM EST
    minions made sure the announcement played well in Shanghai, China.

    Great! (none / 0) (#209)
    by Realleft on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 06:30:07 PM EST
    Biden is a great pick and the rollout worked wonderfully, except for the TV getting a little jump on the texting. The rally today was exciting, and the Obama/Biden are off and running to retake the White House and turn this country back around again!