Morning Early Birds Open Thread

Since i won't be around if Sen. Barack Obama texts out his veep choice early this morning, here's a place to discuss it -- or any other topic that's on your mind.

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    closing the deal (5.00 / 4) (#1)
    by DandyTIger on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 03:16:41 AM EST
    When I think about how this VP thing has dragged out, and may continue to drag out, it sort of reminds me of how Obama couldn't close the deal during the primaries. He was to win, then he'd lose, then he was ready to win again, then he'd lose. Finally he was dragged across the finish line by the DNC as we all know. This VP thing is starting to feel like that.

    And what's really dumb in my opinion is I think they're dragging it out on purpose to take away attention from the forum fiasco (above my pay grade, etc.), and just to try to capture the media attention in general. But I think in the end it will just add to that meme that Obama can't close the deal. Or at least has a whole heck of a lot of trouble closing a deal, making a decision, owning an issue, making a stand.

    I think if this drags out to this weekend, there could be unintended consequences. I don't think they'll be apparent immediately, but I think it will add to this feeling everyone has about his trouble to make anything happen. Look at the polls, he hasn't made it happen. At some point it will be a story in itself that there is some flaw, some reason, something deeper behind this inability to close the deal.

    Indecision, procrastination, a genuine (5.00 / 5) (#10)
    by Grace on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 05:25:33 AM EST
    inability to simply do something?

    This VP thing has gone on far too long.  It's become a joke.  One of the news stations tonight ran a montage of newscasters saying "And now on the Veepstakes" or similar things (all calling it "Veepstakes").  

    Now it has all the appearances of turning into a stalkerazzi/paperazzi event.  A zillion people chasing a story, all hoping to get the first break.  If that doesn't spell "Celebrity," I don't know what does.    


    Obama (5.00 / 2) (#20)
    by dutchfox on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 06:17:23 AM EST
    has run a dreadful campaign. Inept, it's as if he
    was running for student council president.

    Nader Thinks Obama Will Choose Clinton (none / 0) (#77)
    by flashman on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 09:45:44 AM EST
    Read it here.  Here is what I find fascinating; all the talk about PUMA's being wrong-headed, all the blather about how the majority of Hillary's supporters are "on board", all the admonishments from the DNC about how we need to just "get over it", and still it looks like there is only one way to unify the party.  If Nader turns out to be right, and Hillary is chosen, then those who have called Clinton's holdouts "wrongheaded", etc., will have a debt of gratitude to them.

    If Nader is wrong, then a valid process where both Clinton and Obama are put forth for nomination is essential to begin to heal the rift.


    50% plus 1 (none / 0) (#99)
    by JavaCityPal on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 10:52:40 AM EST
    is all it takes to claim a majority, but it sure isn't adequate enough to help Obama win. If you listen to those who are the spokespeople for the groups actively against the DNC and their candidate, they all say the same thing. Putting Hillary on the ticket will not change their minds.

    Obama needs to stop tainting the Clintons. He can pick anyone else for VP. Hillary can't help him now, and she doesn't need to be second on a losing ticket.


    Good point (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by Fen on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 07:14:33 AM EST
    Now it has all the appearances of turning into a stalkerazzi/paperazzi event.

    Expectations continue to rise. Perhaps beyond anything he can meet. I think if he announces anyone but Hillary, his choice will be underwhelming and weaken morale even further.


    Olympics Closing (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by BarnBabe on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 08:08:39 AM EST
    First of all, who scheduled this convention? Kids going back to school. Lots will be watching the closing ceremony of the Olympics. 24th. People will not be ready to jump into politics with a Veep Selection. This should have been done a long time ago. A very bad mistake. Everything crunched into a day. And as soon as the Dem convention ends, the GOP one starts.

    in 2004 - (none / 0) (#46)
    by Josey on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 07:48:57 AM EST
    Kerry sought opinions of Dem activists on VP choice - and Edwards was the top choice.
    Obama seems to be doing his own thing - top down.

    Take a look at this - same thing you are saying (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by mogal on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 08:45:51 AM EST
    Michael Graham, Boston Herald:
    In 1948, they had Harry Truman and "The buck stops here!"

    In 2008, they've got Barack Obama and it's "above my pay grade."

    Should have said Grace instead of you (none / 0) (#62)
    by mogal on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 08:51:58 AM EST
    But the delay this week in announcing the VP (none / 0) (#102)
    by BestinShow on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 11:06:00 AM EST
    is because the Clintons are in Arkansas for the Dem chairman's funeral.

    some flaw, some reason, something deeper? (none / 0) (#32)
    by TimNCGuy on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 07:10:05 AM EST
    You don't honestly believe that you don't already KNOW what claim will be made for this, do you?

    Think back to the primaries and the reasons given for Obama's losses

    NH, OH, PA, WV, KY, PR


    Obama lost because Hillary wouldn't GET OUT (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by Josey on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 07:53:42 AM EST
    Howard Dean said in April (?) that the candidate winning the most primaries toward the end of the primary would be in good position to win nomination. (something like that)
    Didn't Dean know the fix was in??

    yes, (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by TimNCGuy on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 09:16:52 AM EST
    they will blame Hillary when he loses.  But, they will also blame it on the voters being racists.

    Obama said - voters were racists (none / 0) (#72)
    by Josey on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 09:26:26 AM EST
    for not supporting him - while clinging to their guns and religion.

    And now more hip hop street talk from Obama -

    Jake Tapper - ABC
    "I am a big believer in winning," said Sen. Barack Obama, D-Illinois, in Raleigh, NC, tonight. "I don't intend to lose this election...John McCain doesn't know what he is up against right now."

    Similar to -

    June 14, 2008
    "If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun," Obama said in Philadelphia last night.


    Obama won the primary (5.00 / 2) (#78)
    by TimNCGuy on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 09:47:05 AM EST
    because his team scared the super d's into thinking the entire AA base of the party would fold up tent and leave forever if they went with Clinton and because they thought they would lose all the new young voters forever as well.

    as to your other point.....  I may just be too old, in my 50's, but I'm not really interested in having a president who is fluent in hip-hop culture.  I don't look forward to the day that a president comes on national TV and "dusts" foreign leaders off his shoulder or scrapes a dictator off the bottom of his shoe.  I don't think itis a good idea to have national politicians endorsing rap. hip-hop, urbam culture that has its origins in prison gang lifestyles.  But, that's just me....  Do you suppose we wouls start seeing pictures of Obama from Camp David in his wekend casual wear of oversized shirts and sportin' a sag?


    good points! (none / 0) (#81)
    by Josey on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 09:58:26 AM EST
    actually there is plenty to criticize (none / 0) (#88)
    by hellothere on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 10:08:16 AM EST
    with that brush hillary off my shoe and shoulder. it was on the most insulting political videos i have seen.

    yup! i don't need that picture (none / 0) (#91)
    by hellothere on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 10:24:39 AM EST
    this morning. the coffee is just waking me up. thanks

    but, that is exactly what (none / 0) (#90)
    by TimNCGuy on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 10:15:51 AM EST
    you saw after the PA debate, isn't it?  Candidate Obama playing to his supporters with hip-hop sign language.  And, they ate it up and cheered loudly.

    I may be simplistic, but I have never understood why a group of people, when choosing who to identify with, would willingly choose gang members and prisoners.

    I'm am aware that there is supposed to exist hip-hop / rap music that isn't mysoginistic(sp) and filled with hate and violence.  But, that's not what's topping the charts and what Obama was recently forced to denounce when one of his "preferred" artists recently put out a new song in support of Obama, right?


    the chosen attire of (1.00 / 1) (#101)
    by TimNCGuy on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 10:59:14 AM EST
    hip hop and rap culture comes from prison even if individual subsets of the music don't follow the theme.  If you choose to dress like a gangster or prisoner, then don't complain if people tend to associate you with it.

    I know in theory, it shouldn't work like that.  A person should be able to dress any way they like and not have their character judged by it.  But, that still boils down to the ultimate question of why you want to dress like a gang memeber in he first place.

    Obama got blamed for the rantings of one rapper, because Obama previously announced that that one rapper was one he was a "fan" of and he was on his ipod.


    I'm not sure (1.00 / 1) (#113)
    by TimNCGuy on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 11:51:43 AM EST
    whether you are saying that baggy low slung pants did not originate in prison, or that not all subsets of the hip hop culture wear them.

    Obama's link to young people (1.00 / 1) (#119)
    by zfran on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 12:32:06 PM EST
    is like the parent who wants to be "friends" with his children instead of a parent. He wants his children to "like" him, all the time, with every decision and have them believe he is one of them. When the reality of who Obama really is and how he will, imo, actually govern, it will be too late. He will have produced, in some cases, kool-aid drinking followers who were once worshipers and who are now peons. This has nothing to do with using cell phones, or texting, or the like. I like the idea that modern technology is being utilized. I think that is one good/positive move he is making.

    Heh (5.00 / 1) (#122)
    by CST on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 12:38:37 PM EST
    Another version of "what's the matter with kids today".

    Being young doesn't make you stupid, or a worshiper, or a peon.  College kids aren't idiots, they're just different from you.  And a whole lot of "older voters" showed up at the polls for him too.


    I have kids. I think kids are just fine. (none / 0) (#156)
    by zfran on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 05:02:55 PM EST
    What I have taught my kids is if you want to follow, do your research, don't blindly follow. Don't believe everything everybody says (except me, of course). Go out into the world informed and with your eyes wide open. The heroes in this world usually begin within yourselves. This is  still a somewhat "free" country. Any age may vote as they wish. Sometimes age brings experience youth cannot. If you vote for a candidate because you truly believe he/she will be the best for you and yours, and you're as informed as you can be about this person, then you are not blindly following. So many today are, however, imo. Older isn't a dirty word either. If we're lucky, we all get to be "older."

    true, i am no fan of rap music. (none / 0) (#93)
    by hellothere on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 10:26:09 AM EST
    i have no problem with each generation having their own music but the words and hate(as i see it) in some of the music is a turnoff.

    He's 47 years old... (1.00 / 1) (#96)
    by TimNCGuy on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 10:41:41 AM EST
    His supporters went crazy when opponents referred to him as a "young" man.  It was "code words".

    Isn't it time that he stopped trying to present himself as a member of a much younger generation than he is actually a part of?


    Hip-Hop originated.... (5.00 / 2) (#100)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 10:57:39 AM EST
    30 years ago....when Obama was around 17 years old.

    It is his generation's music.


    so did Disco, (5.00 / 1) (#112)
    by TimNCGuy on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 11:40:04 AM EST
    but the adults moved on.....

    Speak for yourself.... (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 12:16:12 PM EST
    Personally, I'll never outgrow the amazing art produced by Run DMC, KRS One, The Beastie Boys, Public Enemy, Erik B & Rakim, Tupac, Biggie, The Roots, Mos Def, Jay Z, and countless other hip-hop poets.

    to each his own! we all have (none / 0) (#118)
    by hellothere on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 12:30:53 PM EST
    our favorites.

    true, but the rest of rap fans aren't (none / 0) (#120)
    by hellothere on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 12:34:16 PM EST
    running for president trying to set the example of maturity and being able to deal with many issues and problems on a worldwide basis. i have no problems with folks' individual tastes. as has been said, i'll fight for someone's right to like it. but i don't apologize to anyone for not liking rap in so far as the emphasis on violence, dislike of police, women and many institutions. and for obama to use it the way he did is to me just plain not acceptable.

    Absolutely... (5.00 / 1) (#132)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:13:37 PM EST
    you have every right not to like hip-hop.

    I just felt like defending it since people were hatin'...:)  

    Granted...there is a lot of garbage hip-hop, but there is great stuff too.  Genius blow your mind stuff...provided you have an open mind.  All genres have good stuff of artistic quality and commercialized crap...you gotta find the good stuff.

    Personally...I can't wait to have a president who knows who KRS One is (for example), has listened to his work...and hopefully learned something about the world from it.


    snark! however knowing where (none / 0) (#135)
    by hellothere on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:24:14 PM EST
    afghanistan and iraq are located is important too. smile

    Return snark.... (5.00 / 2) (#143)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:49:27 PM EST
    every candidate knows that...but do they know who makes the crack?...:)

    "I figured out who makes the crack,
    it's the suckas with the badges and the blue jackets".

    - Beastie Boys

    you get a 5 for making me smile! (none / 0) (#146)
    by hellothere on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 02:46:43 PM EST
    A 5, a 1.... (none / 0) (#148)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 02:48:28 PM EST
    makes no difference to me...as long as you're smiling:)

    You all better stop disrespecting hip-hop......... (none / 0) (#115)
    by BronxFem on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 12:08:10 PM EST
    The birthplace of Hip-Hop took place right here in the Bronx at 1520 Sedgwick Avenue in the west Bronx, about 5 minutes from where I live.  Hip-Hop (to quote the NYT) was born in the WEST Bronx, not the South Bronx, not Harlem and not Queens.  Hip-Hop is the West Bronx's contribution to world culture.

    fine, but i still don't like it. (none / 0) (#121)
    by hellothere on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 12:36:43 PM EST
    and please don't say i'd better not. i like some things you don't like probably and i don't give a dang if you like it or not. personally i am big fan of jazz.

    To each his/her own. However, I suspect you are a (none / 0) (#136)
    by BronxFem on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:25:21 PM EST
    student of history and you may be interested to know that Clive Campbell, otherwise known as D.J. Kool Herc created hip-hop in the first floor community room of the building in 1973.  I do enjoy jazz as well.

    All true... (none / 0) (#145)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 02:28:50 PM EST
    but Queens perfected it:)

    Couldn't resist...that old Triboro/Throgs Neck/Whitestone Bridge rivalry:)


    Personally (none / 0) (#149)
    by CST on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 02:52:49 PM EST
    I prefer old-school west-coast and new-school chicago style myself :)...  Listening to "dear mama" still gets me a little teary-eyed, and the trio of Kanye, Common, and Lupe is hard to beat today.  Although I certainly appreciate NY's contribution to the genre as well.

    Let us not forget... (none / 0) (#152)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 03:06:48 PM EST
    the Dirty South....Outkast especially.  Southern Playalistic Cadillac Funk Music baby:)

    Meh (none / 0) (#153)
    by CST on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 03:14:21 PM EST
    With the exception of Outkast, I could live without most of the "dirty south" rap.  It all kinda sounds the same.  They use the same 1-2 step beat on all of the songs.  Although Lil Wayne is pretty catchy and starting to be a bit more outside the box.  And hey, if it works for Michael Phelps, there may be something there.  Still pretty vapid though.

    Yeah... (none / 0) (#154)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 03:21:21 PM EST
    I never got down with the Cash Money Millionaires myself...I'd put them in the garbage column.

    In addition to Outkast, I like Goodie Mob from the ATL scene.


    Ha! (none / 0) (#150)
    by BronxFem on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 02:53:12 PM EST
    Sorry. The Ha! is in response to kdog #145. (none / 0) (#151)
    by BronxFem on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 02:56:12 PM EST
    to tell you the truth i have often thought (none / 0) (#124)
    by hellothere on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 12:40:09 PM EST
    that if i were a member of the aa community, i'd like to have the media show more about the individuality of my group. they constantly hype the hip hop culture in order to sell. it is all about money. i think the representation is not fair to the aa community. sure it is a part of it and perhaps a very important part. but it isn't all by any means. and the young aa's need their education and to prepare for the real world. therein lies some of my concern.

    Hip-Hop, of course, was eventually taken over by (none / 0) (#139)
    by BronxFem on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:34:04 PM EST
    other commercial interests.  However, it was D.J. Kool Herc who presided over the turntables at the parties in that community room so many years ago.

    sorry but i am going to show an (none / 0) (#142)
    by hellothere on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:44:08 PM EST
    ignorance of these entertainers. there are several who have turned into very successful businessmen and women. i have seen some who also contributed to various causes. p diddy comes to mind!

    RIP LeRoi Moore (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by DandyTIger on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 03:31:03 AM EST
    LeRoi Moore died Tuesday. He had an ATV accident near here in C'ville a month or so ago, and he death was from complications from that accident. He was the sax player for our favorite local band, The Dave Matthews Band. I didn't know him, but I've seen him and other band members around town, at lunch hangouts, and of course in concert. He'll be missed. Here's DMB's news about it.

    Stephanie Tubbs Jones admitted to Huron Hospital (5.00 / 3) (#4)
    by nycstray on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 03:42:36 AM EST
    Congresswoman Stephanie Tubbs Jones was admitted to Huron Hospital in East Cleveland Tuesday tonight.

    The family requested that the hospital not release any information about her condition.

    The Cleveland Heights police department is to put out a news release in the morning about the incident.

    WOIO Channel 19 is reporting that Tubbs Jones was behind the wheel of a car moving fast in Cleveland Heights. Police tried to pull her over but she was unconscious.

    Nicole Williams, spokeswoman for the 11th District congresswoman, had no information about the incident.


    One of those who came out (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by Xanthe on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 07:05:12 AM EST
    early on the War.  I wish her well.

    That's terrible news (5.00 / 0) (#47)
    by Steve M on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 07:49:34 AM EST
    I really hope everything will be ok.

    Massive Aneurysm (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by Little Fish on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 10:46:44 AM EST

    My thoughts are with her and her family.


    "best care possible" (none / 0) (#110)
    by Fabian on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 11:38:05 AM EST
    That's the sound of doom.  She's not expected to recover.

    My thoughts are with her family and constituents.  May they find comfort in each other.

    Praise to the police who managed to stop her vehicle without incident.  


    Now reporting Tubbs-Jones dead (none / 0) (#134)
    by caseyOR on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:22:06 PM EST
    Little Fish's link is now reporting that Stephanie Tubbs-Jones died early this afternoon.

    Doesn't sound good (none / 0) (#6)
    by nycstray on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 03:52:51 AM EST
    You don't usually hear "unconscious" while driving.

    I just hope like heck she is ok.


    STJ is one of the party's and the Country's (none / 0) (#45)
    by cpa1 on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 07:46:25 AM EST
    grownups.  Let's hope it was something not serious like sleep apnea and that her injuries are minor.  What a classy lady.

    [shudder] (none / 0) (#61)
    by Fabian on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 08:50:22 AM EST
    Plus seizure.  

    diabetes (none / 0) (#69)
    by jedimom on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 09:16:24 AM EST
    God Bless her!! she is a fabulous Democrat and a genuinely lovely person!

    It sounds like a possible diabetic coma, she is still unconscious..

    she leads the ethics cmte...


    a few more details (none / 0) (#71)
    by Fabian on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 09:26:14 AM EST
    Cleveland's WOIO reports that police tried to pull over a fast-moving sedan at around 9 p.m. Tuesday but got no response from the driver. When they managed to get the car stopped in a field, they found Tubbs Jones, 58, unconscious in the driver's seat.

    Are there that many fields in Cleve Hts?  I don't remember all that many.  That's got to be a scary prospect for the police - how to stop a vehicle safely with a minimum of damage to passenger and anything else.

    So we don't know if she was "unconscious" while behind the wheel, but she was definitely "unresponsive".  If she wasn't belted in, the act of stopping the vehicle may have injured her.


    The campaign season (5.00 / 5) (#8)
    by lentinel on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 05:07:22 AM EST
    continues to be entertaining - IF - you like disaster movies.

    This is unbelievable (5.00 / 2) (#11)
    by facta non verba on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 05:28:06 AM EST
    I'm dazed by how out of touch the Obama campaign is:

    Obama Goes Haute-Couteur

    No wonder the campaign hasn't (5.00 / 2) (#14)
    by oculus on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 06:06:48 AM EST
    got around to announcing a VP choice.

    well this will help McCain (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by TimNCGuy on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 07:15:36 AM EST
    They can add the high fashion model who is black to their commercials now and stop people from calling the ads racist.

    Would be worse (none / 0) (#58)
    by BarnBabe on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 08:37:53 AM EST
    Then it would be that the insinuation is. No, that ad has sailed.

    Lordy. (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by suki on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 08:31:55 AM EST
    These people have sailed off the edge.
    I know campaigns have a tendency to insulate, but this is just beyond dumb.
    From the same geniuses who brought us the 'seal', no doubt.

    Imagine if Hillary.... (5.00 / 4) (#65)
    by Fabian on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 08:57:23 AM EST
    did something like this.  Imagine the MoDo column!

    Ah, well.  That's the creative class for you.  Can fashionistas win votes?


    the campaign has now offically (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by hellothere on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 09:58:14 AM EST
    entired the hallowed arena of a national joke! mccain and the late night shows send their thanks.

    $80 t-shirt instead of $400! (none / 0) (#79)
    by Cream City on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 09:57:57 AM EST
    Gosh, what a good decision when Americans are losing their homes.

    I've got a real bargain for them.  I'm wearing my Clinton t-shirt.  Standard baggy t-shirt, simple one-color silk-screen.  And designed by a Clinton supporter.  And that all makes it fashionable enough for me.

    I might pay for a Vero Possumus t-shirt, though.  For the laughs.  But Obama clearly took it seriously and has not a learned a thing from it.


    Goes really well with this (none / 0) (#128)
    by americanincanada on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:01:54 PM EST
    Interesting Virginia news (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by vector on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 05:42:39 AM EST
    I just saw this in today's newspaper.

    Petitions with over 70,000 signatures have been filed in Virginia to place an independent ticket of Michael Bloomberg and Ron Paul on the ballot for president and vice president. This was part of an organized effort by the Independent Green Party of Virginia (which is NOT  affiliated with the national Green party). Virginia does not require candidates to agree to be nominated.

    This will hurt Obama more than McCain, I'm fairly sure about that. Very few Republicans are going to vote for Bloomberg. Paul has lots of passive supporters, mostly college age, who support him because of his opposition to the war.

    This is NOT good news for Obama.

    With Virginia so tight, if this ticket polls even 3% it could have national implications.  

    Huh? (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by vector on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 06:50:33 AM EST
    The intention is to use this ticket to attract liberals upset with Obama.  

    Bloomberg dropped out of the Republican Party over a year ago.  He stated that he felt the party had drifted too far to the radical right. He is actually to the left of some Democrats; he may even be to the left of Obama.

    Bloomberg is now a registered independent.  Paul has always had a very weak connection to the Republicans.  In fact, he was the Libertarian Party candidate for President in 1988.

    Interstingly, both Bloomberg and Paul say that they will NOT ask to have their names taken off the November presidential ballot.

    Finally, please take note:

    In In 2006, the Independent Green candidate for Senate got 1.1% or 26,102 votes. This was more than the margin between Jim Webb and George Allen (which for the record was 0.3% or 9,329 votes).

    The current Obama-McCain race is MUCH closer, especially in Virginia.

    Don't be so sure that this Bloomberg thing might not affect the outcome.


    The only reason (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by TimNCGuy on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 07:13:03 AM EST
    that Bloomberg ever signed up as a republican was because it was the easiest way for him to get on the ballot for mayor in NYC.  He has never actually been a repug.

    Ironic (none / 0) (#16)
    by lentinel on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 06:12:49 AM EST
    It is ironic that Democrats would vote for Paul because of his opposition to the war in Iraq. This had been touted as Obama's signature issue - his gold star for prescience. But because of his voting record, and his actions (like stumping for LIeberman) he has lost what should have been an enthusiastic following.

    Ron Paul is a strange bird (none / 0) (#53)
    by stxabuela on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 08:13:12 AM EST
    IIRC, he ran as a Libertarian here in TX for Governor and then switched parties to win his seat in Congress as a Republican.  The main thing he has in common with Democrats is his opposition to the war.  The biggest thing he has in common with the Republicans is his vehement opposition to abortion.  He advocates a return to the gold standard, which imho is insane.  I have never understood Paul's popularity.  

    I think (none / 0) (#57)
    by suki on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 08:37:17 AM EST
    it's because he's not afraid to say exactly what he believes.

    exactly, paul is the "crazy" uncle (none / 0) (#82)
    by hellothere on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 10:00:39 AM EST
    who took 10 minutes scanning his bill at the grocery store to insure no over billing and told the table at christmas what he thought of the then president in sorid detail. but we all loved him.

    Heh (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by suki on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 10:35:27 AM EST
    Or in my case, that would be my Dad.
    God, I miss him.

    i have a soft spot in my (5.00 / 1) (#125)
    by hellothere on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 12:47:47 PM EST
    heart for folks like that. my grandfather was the terror of the local supermarket. the manager would hide in his office till he left. "big daddy"(southern term) would examine every item and check it against the ads. if the clerk made a mistake, he pounced. yeah, i still miss him.

    It's because.... (none / 0) (#92)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 10:25:16 AM EST
    he believes in liberty...that's enough to earn my vote.  Liberty doesn't have many friends in the D and R parties...she doesn't have a friend in McCain or Obama, thats for damn sure.

    Ron Paul is against the prohibition of drugs, Obama and McCain support prohibition...he can pull alotta liberty-loving votes that way too, from both the left and the right.  That's a biggie, in addition to his stance on foreign intervention and occupation.


    Jonathan Singer over at MyDD (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by magisterludi on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 06:08:23 AM EST
    is waxing rhapsodic over the possibility of O winning Nebraska.

    Oh, goody. When we lose the EV's in FL, MI, PA and OH and therefore the election, we'll always have NE!

    Shoot me now.

    And yet, (5.00 / 0) (#28)
    by magisterludi on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 06:58:15 AM EST
    my consciousness survives. Drat.

    Jonathan also purged the non-believers (none / 0) (#76)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 09:44:56 AM EST
    from his web site during the primary.

    He is comic relief.


    And now for something different: (5.00 / 3) (#24)
    by Xanthe on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 06:37:36 AM EST
    Because my sleeping patterns are so odd, I often find myself awake from 2 am to 5 am and then back to sleep.  Thank God for On Demand where I watched 4 segments in a row of Mad Men. It is terrific.  I was in my heyday during that period and they get it perfectly - absolutely perfect. Not only the clothes, the homes, but the attitudes - between men, between men and women, women and children, women and women, etc.  And the protagonist is spot on - like many ad execs I'd met during that period.  That redhead office manager would probably be a CEO somewhere today - women are just an emerging market so to speak then.

    So if you don't want to read John Cheever to understand that time (especially men and that time) - this show is a compendium of everything  you need to know.  

    Lately, noticed that the homes of the affluent from old moves and programs like this show the contrast between often obscene materialism offered today for a certain class and a more modest comfort.  Telling!

    Jeralyn, I go to Just A Minute once in awhile and they were giving you props recently - calling you one of the fairest of the liberal bloggers - in case you didn't see it.

    Just came from (5.00 / 3) (#29)
    by TimNCGuy on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 07:05:05 AM EST
    RealClearPolitics and have noted that the press Obama is getting is more negative now.  Here are some sample titles from today:

    "What Else is Above Obama's Paygrade?"
    "Obama's 2003 Stand on Abortion Draws Criticism"
    "Obama's Rhetoric vs Record: The Mask Slips"
    "Obama Played by Chicago Rules"
    "The Money Race is Closer than You Think"

    I bet Hillary is asking herself where all these "reporters" were during the primaries.

    And, the new electoral college results at RCP now have McCain OVER 270 with no toss-ups since Indiana has flipped from Obama to McCain.

    Also Ayers Papers (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by Fen on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 07:09:31 AM EST
    Growing pressure for Obama to release Univ of Chicago papers that reflect a deeper relationship with Ayers. If Obama doesn't define whats in those papers, the RNC will do it for him.

    ie. its only going to get worse.


    i would lay odds they have already seen (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by hellothere on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 10:02:50 AM EST
    those papers.

    Although many, many Chicagoans will (none / 0) (#38)
    by oculus on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 07:20:04 AM EST
    speak Mon. night on the positive qualities of Sen. Obama, I not Mr. Ayers is not on the agenda.  

    Very fishy curatorial behavior (none / 0) (#83)
    by Cream City on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 10:01:10 AM EST
    about those Ayers papers.  I read the full report, and the behaviors toward the researcher sure sound like violations of archival and curatorial standards as well as just stupid and discourteous actions.

    All of which suggests that there's something there.


    Agree - there's lots (none / 0) (#87)
    by Xanthe on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 10:07:17 AM EST
    of money there - and - the Chicago Public School System is as dysfunctional as any public school system in a large city - frankly, I admire teachers who go in every day and make it work as well as it does.  But it's the pols in Chicago - I know - it's my town.

    Haven't Seen Anything About This (none / 0) (#103)
    by daring grace on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 11:06:46 AM EST
    except on Repub and right wing sites, including this one at GOPUSA

    which links to a more extensive account at (yuck) Newmax
    which I've pasted a couple of snips from:

     WASHINGTON -- The University of Illinois on Tuesday refused to release records relating to Barack Obama's service to a nonprofit group linked to former 1960s radical activist William Ayers.

    The university's Chicago campus said the donor of the records that document the work of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge has not yet turned over ownership rights to the material.

    The university is "aggressively pursuing" an agreement with the donor, and as soon as an agreement is finalized, the collection will be made accessible to the public, the university said in a one-paragraph statement.

    There was no indication when an agreement will be worked out. The university did not identify the donor who it said was concerned that the release not invade personal privacy.

    There was no immediate comment from the Obama campaign.

    On Monday, the National Review magazine posted an online article saying that the institution had initially declared that the records were open to inspection, but that the university subsequently reversed its position.

    On Tuesday, the university said that there had been a misunderstanding about the status of the collection.


    In an interview, university spokesman Bill Burton said that the institution only recently was made aware that it did not have ownership, a requirement for making the collection public.

    The owner notified the university about the absence of a signed ownership agreement last week.

    "The donor's only concerns regarding the collection are due to personnel information that could include names, confidential salary information and even Social Security numbers," said the university spokesman.

    Burton, who has no connection to the Obama campaign spokesman with the same name, said he was not authorized to identify the owner.


    Exactly. Almost 1000 boxes (none / 0) (#107)
    by Cream City on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 11:32:01 AM EST
    and already inventoried -- a crucial archival step and a major investment in archival time with a collection of that size; many collections across the country remain uninventoried after decades -- and only now is it "discovered" that there is question about ownership aka transmittal?  

    It doesn't wash.  I know a lot about archives, archival standards, etc.  And I could understand the grad student aka archival intern's role, but this now is being said by the head of archives there.  And it is a sizeable archives, so this is not an amateur or transferee from the reference desk.

    So if it is true that ownership never was transmitted, then someone ought to lose their job and be censured by archival associations.  I have yet to see any of them quoted on this.  I am watching it.

    Bad enough what a Bushie did to the hallowed Library of Congress. . . .


    You May Be Right (none / 0) (#114)
    by daring grace on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 11:56:01 AM EST
    You sound as if you have much more experience with archives and collections than I--although I've witnessed a few cases of mismanagement/disconnect worse than this in my dealings with university collections.

    I confess some of my high opinion of archival standards were shaken to the core by Sandy Berger a couple years ago.


    You bet there have been bad cases (5.00 / 1) (#123)
    by Cream City on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 12:39:31 PM EST
    of mismanagement, but not usually in simple transmittal and of a collection of this size and with Ayers on the faculty and with the switches in permission for access, etc. -- that all is what makes this one questionable for me.

    The Berger case also was just the tip of the iceberg, and at least he was caught and fined.  The theft of documents and artifacts, especially of Native American artifacts, just hurts me to the core.  And when done from the inside, as is more common with lax practices in some archives, it just hurts all the more.  

    I happen to have been on an oversight board for one of our major archival collections in the country, and I took it darn seriously.  Not all did.:-)


    Kindred Spirit (5.00 / 1) (#127)
    by daring grace on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:01:02 PM EST
    I deeply respect and appreciate your work on that board then. I share your heartache at the indefensible losses from our collections and archives.

    In my area we had a life long employee of our state library selling historic materials on ebay. Luckily, he was caught, like Berger. But it makes me sick to think they may be just the tip of the iceberg.


    agreeing with the left (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by Tim V on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 08:18:22 AM EST
    there are some issues that I agree with the left on. One of those issues is the de-criminalization or legalisation of marijuana

    Southern Strategy (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by Fen on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 08:33:48 AM EST
    Team Obama has invested alot of time and energy in flipping southern states that trend GOP.

    So I expect his VP nom to be from the South, prob Kaine. Dean's policy of writing off the southern block has seriously handicapped Dems electorally.

    one more thing (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 09:00:21 AM EST
    Ralph and I agree on:

    "I don't think he's that dumb," said Nader, commenting on widespread speculation that Obama's choices are down to Sens. Joe Biden or Evan Bayh, or Virginia Gov. Tim Kaine.

    The smart pick, according to Nader, is Hillary Rodham Clinton.

    captain, you are one devoted (none / 0) (#85)
    by hellothere on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 10:03:35 AM EST
    hillary fan! my hat's off to you. smile!

    An interesting post at AlterNet (5.00 / 2) (#73)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 09:27:31 AM EST
    "The Right's Five Hilariously Boneheaded Anti-Obama Smears"


    Funny how so many of them show up here perpetuated by supposedly "left-leaning" individuals.  

    A "2" from the usual suspect in 3, 2, 1...

    Missed: (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by Fabian on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 09:36:34 AM EST
    Obama appears to be surrounded by CDSers.

    That would be in my top 5.  The others?  No.  


    That sounds like mere partisan prop (none / 0) (#75)
    by Fen on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 09:39:29 AM EST

    Because right-wing blogs have been vicious in debunking that line. Even Little Green Footballs says the Birth Certificate issue is bs.

    Instapundit [waves to Glenn] has also shot it down daily.


    Shame on Denver..... (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 10:32:39 AM EST
    the voters approved an ordinance making marijuana possesion the lowest law enforcement priority, but it appears local law enforcement is gonna ignore the will of the people and lick some jackboots during the convention.  Link

    That's whack.

    More than enough shame to go around... (none / 0) (#108)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 11:34:22 AM EST
    ...shame on Colorado. Shame on the Feds.  Shame on transplant clinics that take people off the waiting list for seeking relief from pain and suffering. Shame on closed-minded people...

    No plausable reason or rational to it at all, IMO.


    Amen brother.... (none / 0) (#117)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 12:21:51 PM EST
    it's our national shame.

    And unfortunately it ain't goin' nowhere.  I'd be easier to stomach if there was some reason or rationale to it...but there is none except a history of racism leading to bad law that current leaders refuse to address...except Ron Paul and Ralph Nader...but they are the "crazy" ones....you figure it out cuz I can't.


    Best news of the day so far (5.00 / 2) (#130)
    by CST on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:07:26 PM EST
    Guiliani is the keynote speaker for the Republicans.  Please, John McCain, get this idiot on stage for you as early, often, and high-profile as possible.

    Cool.... (none / 0) (#133)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:18:29 PM EST
    I think Rudy milked 9/11 enough and people are sick of him.

    Not to mention a drag-dressing, philandering, Catholic divorcee doesn't play well with the born-again base.

    Good choice GOP:)


    Rudy is great (none / 0) (#138)
    by CST on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:33:25 PM EST
    He pi$$es off the GOP with his "personal issues" and he pi$$es off Dems because of his horrible politics.  Way to kill two birds with one stone.

    Come to think of it.... (none / 0) (#144)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 02:09:11 PM EST
    who likes the f*ckin' guy anymore?  Anybody?  



    And... (none / 0) (#137)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:29:18 PM EST
    ...Lieberman will be there too.  Let the good times roll in Saint Paul!

    Morning in America (4.00 / 2) (#42)
    by Lahdee on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 07:36:03 AM EST
    Did you sleep well John?
    I said did you sleep well?
    No I didn't beep Zell. I should call him though, he'd be perfect as Vice President.
    Oh John don't be silly, I asked if you slept well.
    What, the well is septic? How did that happen?
    Oh never mind. What's on your schedule?
    I'm don't remember, but I think I forgot to walk the dog.
    We don't have a dog John.
    That's good.
    Yes John, now just eat your breakfast.
    How'd you do my eggs?
    Your eggs? Why over easy of course.
    No, No, that'll never do. Can I have them hard boiled?
    You can have them anyway you like.
    Then hard boiled it is. I don't want people thinking I'm soft. Heh, soft on eggs, that's a yolk Cindy. Get it, a yolk?
    You're thinking too much again John. Eat your breakfast or I'll tell Phil.
    Yes dear.

    Veep (none / 0) (#9)
    by lentinel on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 05:10:20 AM EST
    Like many, I think that if Obama doesn't select Hillary Clinton - and express genuine enthusiasm about his choice - he can wave goodbye to the presidency - and we can all wave goodbye to our....

    Betting windows closed (none / 0) (#23)
    by Fen on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 06:34:40 AM EST
    on any chance Hillary will be picked as Veep? Team Obama has to know thats the dream ticket. Any chance at all?

    Zogby has more bad news for Obama:

    Republican John McCain has taken a five-point lead over Democrat Barack Obama in the race for President, the latest Reuters/Zogby telephone survey shows.

    McCain leads Obama by a 46% to 41% margin.


    he has to do *something* (none / 0) (#27)
    by Nasarius on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 06:54:23 AM EST
    As Nader said recently, the names being floated are all extremely boring, to the point of being unbelievable. I think there's a tiny shred of hope that Obama isn't really that stupid, and he'll surprise everyone and pick Hillary.

    Failing that, he needs some kind of major change to save his sinking candidacy. I don't see a lot of realistic options.


    Was my radio morning guy joking? (none / 0) (#12)
    by Teresa on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 05:36:25 AM EST
    I just woke up to him saying they were preparing a draft text and some guy sent it out by accident and it is Bayh. Is that true?

    I've gotta get ready for work but I was wondering if anyone heard that.

    If true... (5.00 / 3) (#17)
    by lentinel on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 06:13:41 AM EST
    it's Bayh Bayh Obama.

    He sounded totally serious but he must have (none / 0) (#21)
    by Teresa on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 06:20:17 AM EST
    been joking because I checked the orange place and no news there.

    There was (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by Steve M on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 07:25:40 AM EST
    a screenshot of an alleged CNN story floating around the Intertubes that said basically that.

    It looked like a pretty obvious hoax to me (the story was full of typos) but I'd imagine some people took it face value and said wow, there really was a leak.


    Thanks Steve. I woke up to that on my radio (none / 0) (#147)
    by Teresa on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 02:48:00 PM EST
    alarm. The fellow on the air obviously believed it.

    If Obama announces (none / 0) (#25)
    by nellre on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 06:45:51 AM EST
    If Obama announces his VP choice before the convention I will not vote for him.
    I'm in CA so it doesn't matter... but my vote didn't matter to the Dems anyway.

    He should steal a play from McCain (none / 0) (#33)
    by Fen on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 07:11:49 AM EST
    annouce at the convention that he'll open the VP slot up to votes by delegates.

    Let us all recall (none / 0) (#37)
    by magisterludi on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 07:17:07 AM EST
    the anti-Clinton meme of so many lefty bloggers on the Clintons awful predilection for triangulation, after Obama has twisted like a pretzel.

    Also, to get this off my chest...

    Clinton would be have beat McCain like a drum all the way to November. If the trajectory keeps plummeting like this, I hope O finds a graceful way out before the convention, for the sake of the country, not the party.

    Well (none / 0) (#40)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 07:30:29 AM EST
    Obama only really thinks about himself so he'd never do that. Besides, he lives in a bubble where he's certain he'll win despite the declining poll numbers and all the evidence to the contrary.

    When you put it that way...... (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 07:32:39 AM EST
    ...it sounds a lot like you-know-who. Yikes.

    uncensored debate (none / 0) (#43)
    by Tim V on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 07:39:10 AM EST
    All you lefties, you can engage in serious and thoughtfull debate over at the hedgehogreport.com, without fear of having your comments deleted or censored. I assume this post will be deleted as several of my post on this site have been. I am tired of the groupthink at this site and doubt I will be posting in the future. I have enjoyed this site because it exposes me to opposing views. Yes, I am at heart a conservative but I do like trying to see opposing views and am open to engaging in serious debate.

    correction (none / 0) (#44)
    by Tim V on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 07:41:13 AM EST
    the site is hedgehogreport.com

    What does (none / 0) (#49)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 08:00:35 AM EST
    anybody here think about a possible McCain/Lieberman ticket? It possibly could be a stroke of genius by McCain by reinforcing the "maverick" persona and also appealing to the center. It would also undercut any message Obama had about "unity" when that could be sold as "the real unity ticket". I don't know how it would play with some Republicans though. I imagine they would initially be mad but then "come home" in the end.

    What would be a stroke of genius (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by Fen on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 08:56:02 AM EST
    is for Obama to announce that he's grateful for your support, but has selected himself as VP to Hillary. He intends to focus on domestic issues, grow on foreign policy, and be POTUS from 2016-2024, ie. Hillary serves 2008-2016.

    I know, I know (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by Fen on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 08:58:18 AM EST
    I'll put down the crack pipe now.

    But wouldn't that be unprecedented & exciting.


    Buh-bye Religious Right Voting Bloc (none / 0) (#104)
    by daring grace on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 11:13:00 AM EST
    I would love it!

    I think it is extremely possible. (none / 0) (#106)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 11:26:39 AM EST
    even likely.  I read that McCains staff has been sounding out republicans all over the country about the possibility of a pro choice running mate.
    either him or Ridge.

    Good God...is it true? (none / 0) (#51)
    by americanincanada on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 08:05:17 AM EST
    That Obama now won't make any announcement about his VP until Saturday when they campaign together?

    He is the drama king. (none / 0) (#111)
    by Fabian on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 11:39:42 AM EST
    Unfortunately.  A little more humility and a little less grandstanding might help him.

    Clinton not available this week (none / 0) (#129)
    by waldenpond on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:01:57 PM EST
    Here's bestinshow's conspiracy theory....  :)

    But the delay this week in announcing the VP (none / 0) (#102)
    by BestinShow on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 09:06:00 AM PDT

    is because the Clintons are in Arkansas for the Dem chairman's funeral.

    hmm?  hmmm?  what do you think?


    Instead of just going overseas... (none / 0) (#64)
    by citizen53 on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 08:56:35 AM EST
    meeting with the troops and other leaders, Obama may have blown it with his celebrity tour.

    Now everything seems anticlimactic.  But there will be some more media gimmickry to get this back on track, and whip up the country into a frenzy over this election of two relative clones on too many issues.

    People actually want change, but will Obama deliver anything but more of the same?

    THIS is kinda funny. (none / 0) (#68)
    by cawaltz on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 09:12:17 AM EST
    Apparently no one has told poor Toby Keith that Obama disliked the zclinton years and wishes to be "transformative" ala Reagan.

    That poor Toby Keith just can't open his mouth without inserting his foot.

    More furor (none / 0) (#126)
    by echinopsia on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 12:48:33 PM EST
    Dem supporters asked to buy Obama speech tickets

    Two known Democratic supporters are outraged at their own party after being solicited to buy tickets to Barack Obama's acceptance speech at Invesco Field next Thursday, CBS4 reports. The seats were distributed for free to the general public.

    One source directed CBS4 to an unpublicized part of the Obama campaign's Web site where Democratic supporters, reportedly with deep pockets, could buy tickets for $1,000 each. The source told CBS4 he was solicited three times to buy the tickets through the Web site.

    One source said it was unethical and being kept secret from the public.

    is he still active? i haven't heard (none / 0) (#155)
    by hellothere on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 03:32:01 PM EST
    the name. of course i am from beyonce's hometown.

    Yes, he is still active. (none / 0) (#157)
    by BronxFem on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 09:26:07 PM EST
    Lives in Long Island now, though.