More Swift Boating

February 2008:

"The thought of his being president sends a cold chill down my spine," Sen. Thad Cochran (R-Miss.), also a senior member of the Appropriations panel, told the Boston Globe recently. "He is erratic. He is hotheaded. He loses his temper and he worries me."

But in the last 5 months, apparently McCain has matured:

. . . Though Sen. Cochran saw the incident he described to you, decades have passed since then and he wanted to make the point that over the years he has seen Sen. McCain mature . .

Must be dog years Cochran is talking about.

By Big Tent Democrat, speaking for me only

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    if you are going to have (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 03:01:37 PM EST
    people saying things like this, and you are John McCain, I cant think of anyone better than a nutcase fullmooner like Thud Cochran.

    Cochcran is not alone (5.00 / 2) (#8)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 03:12:00 PM EST
    in stating these views. But have it your way. McCain all the way ay Howdy?

    Rooting for Bush's third term are you? Good for you!


    no (none / 0) (#15)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 03:16:01 PM EST
    like Kos and Aravosis I remain uncomitted.
    but I dont mind saying that quoting the likes of Thad Cochran to bolster my argument is not something I am comfortable with.

    Then you do not understand my argument (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 03:19:25 PM EST
    It is not actually about whether this is true or not, it is about the absurd argument that people, I think you are one of them, are forwarding that Clark "swiftboated" McCain.

    I do not really care that McCain has a temper.

    I am making a different point.


    I understand it completely (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 03:28:19 PM EST
    but the other think about the temper thing is that I dont think the  average joe is going to care.
    in fact I think it might burnish McCains fading gloss a little.
    you know, we like a president who has got a pair.
    and all that.
    and as I said the people this is coming from will not hurt him in the middle.  Santorum, Cochran, pretty good enemies to have when you are trying to appeal to the middle.
    the truth is its not Hillary voters who have no place to go in this election in spite of their being told that, its the right wingers who have no place to go.
    the only right wing person in the race so far is the most anti war candidate running.

    Well (none / 0) (#26)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 03:30:22 PM EST
    I doubt that. But it remains immaterial to my point. McCain is denying it after all.

    he cant deny them all (none / 0) (#28)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 03:34:31 PM EST
    as has been pointed out there are several years of these stories to deny.
    I think the more interesting possibility is if Obama can make him lose it in public.  you know they are going to try.  THAT could be a big deal.
    the other day when he was asked about the "shooting down" thing Clark said, he tried to brush it off but his entire head became instantly crimson.  like a red bowling ball with white tufts of hair.
    it was actually pretty funny.

    Yeah (none / 0) (#33)
    by flyerhawk on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 03:37:13 PM EST
    Americans love when Presidential nominees show a little emotion

    not relevant IMO (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 03:38:29 PM EST
    Dean was a democrat.  what happened to him would never have happened to any republican and certainly not to McCain.

    And the last (none / 0) (#36)
    by flyerhawk on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 03:43:16 PM EST
    fiery Republican that ran for office was who?

    you got me (none / 0) (#40)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 03:46:28 PM EST
    my point was the scream was media invention that would not happen to probably any republican candidate and certainly not to McCain.

    also (none / 0) (#39)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 03:45:16 PM EST
    I think that scream, which lets be honest really did look a little bit crazy when viewed out of context, is very different from reaching across the table and  grabbing someone by the shirt collar and threatening to beat the crap out of them.

    You're right (none / 0) (#45)
    by flyerhawk on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 03:50:39 PM EST
    the former was a little bit silly.  The latter was a little bit scary, and not in a good way.

    you may think that (none / 0) (#48)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 04:01:01 PM EST
    and I may even think that but my point is I am not sure the average voter is going to feel that way.
    many of McCains voters might think that is exactly what a Sandinista needs.

    I agree with your point (none / 0) (#62)
    by befuddledvoter on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 04:30:10 PM EST
    that a good chunk of the electorate, thus far not on board with Obama, will like this.  McCain is a tough SOB and that is appealing.  Obama is soft, not so appealing, IMHO.

    We (none / 0) (#50)
    by tek on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 04:08:54 PM EST
    may get Bush's third term either way.  The MSM has Obama's VP being Dick Gephardt.  I knew it.  A bunch of Dem losers who couldn't get the WH on their own have banded together to bring us a weak puppet so they can control the Executive Office.  Say hello to Bush's third term if Obama gets elected.  I keep saying, if these people don't want an administration like Bill's--the closest thing we've had to a real democracy in my lifetime--then what do they want?  It's scary.

    amen brother (none / 0) (#51)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 04:14:49 PM EST
    openly courting Sam Nunn was the last straw for me.
    Dick is no surprise.  its the revenge of the Dinos.
    I will not help.  I will not enable.  I will not donate. I will very likely become a registered independent and start working for a real third party.

    Heh (none / 0) (#57)
    by Steve M on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 04:20:23 PM EST
    Can you believe the anonymous Republican strategist who says "Gephardt is the one we're scared of"?  What kind of fools do these people take us for?

    it worked with Obama (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 04:25:07 PM EST
    I'm (none / 0) (#68)
    by tek on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 05:17:20 PM EST
    not scared of Gephardt, he's just not anyone I want to see in the WH.  I'm scared of what the Dem Dinos will do collectively if they get their man in.  It's too eerily like the whole debacle with Dubya.

    Link to Gephardt (none / 0) (#67)
    by waldenpond on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 05:07:59 PM EST
    Was this on teebee or an article.... would be great to know where you heard/read this.

    It's internet years (5.00 / 2) (#3)
    by scribe on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 03:08:39 PM EST
    not dog years.

    But, seriously, we can do far better than to have McCain, a cranky, ranting, angry old man with little or no impulse control, with his finger on the nuclear button.

    Let's rake muck in style on McCain then (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by wurman on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 03:17:34 PM EST
    Sam Stein @ Huffington (link) drags an old story out of Cliff Schecter's The Real McCain about an alleged dust-up between Sen. McCain & AZ Representative Rick Renzi in 2006.
    . . . Renzi, a former college linebacker, rose from his chair and said to McCain, "You call me that one more time and I'll kick your old ass." McCain lunged at Renzi, punches were thrown, and the two had to be physically separated.

    If true, then McCain not only has a hair-trigger temper, but he's stupid in picking his opponent--collegiate linebacker, shhhheeeeesh!

    Heh (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 03:20:07 PM EST
    Matured? (none / 0) (#29)
    by Molly Bloom on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 03:35:43 PM EST
    Matured did someone say since the Ortegaincident?

    Just the guy (5.00 / 0) (#24)
    by scribe on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 03:22:25 PM EST
    we want to have his finger on the nuclear button.  A first-order hothead who goes into a fight with neither the sense to choose an opponent he can beat, nor the discretion to find a way other than fighting and getting pulverized.

    Actually I prefer that neither have that power (none / 0) (#30)
    by BarnBabe on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 03:36:41 PM EST
    One might get pi$$ed off and hit the button and the other one might hit the button and then change his mind. Meanwhile, none of us will have to worry about anything anymore. Heh.

    Actually, McCain should get a medal. (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by wurman on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 03:37:06 PM EST
    It's this Rick Renzi (Wikipedia link):
    Renzi has pending Federal criminal charges against him for his involvement in a land-swap deal.[1] [2][3]. On April 19, 2007, the FBI raided his family business, and he temporarily resigned from the House Intelligence Committee.[4] On April 27 Renzi denied printed claims he was considering resigning office;[5] however, on August 23, Renzi announced he would not be a candidate for re-election in 2008.[6][7] On February 22, 2008 Renzi was indicted on 35 counts connected to land deals.[8] He pled not guilty.

    [huge snip]
    Shortly after initiating the investigation of Renzi, the US Attorney for Arizona, Paul Charlton, was added to a list of US attorneys the Justice Department wanted to remove, in an effort that would become the dismissal of U.S. attorneys controversy. In February 2005, Charlton had been on the "retain" list of Kyle Sampson, Attorney General Alberto Gonzalez's chief of staff, but "by September of 2006 -- after it became clear that Charlton had launched an investigation of Rep. Rick Renzi, R-Ariz, -- Sampson included the Arizona prosecutor on another list of U.S. attorneys 'we now should consider pushing out.'"[47] Sampson made the comment in a Sept. 13, 2006, letter to then-White House Counsel Harriet Miers.

    Right!!! (none / 0) (#64)
    by befuddledvoter on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 04:32:59 PM EST
    I still maintain that many out there will just love this side of McCain!!  

    Ha! I kinda like the idea (none / 0) (#70)
    by Grace on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 05:37:35 PM EST
    of a President who will kick the criminals out of government one at a time, personally.  ;-)

    Breaking News Media 201 stories can turn on a dime (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by Ellie on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 03:18:31 PM EST
    Just now: Ingrid Betancourt and 14 other hostages were just released in Columbia after being held ~5-6 yrs (as long as McCain was a POW.)

    McCain is in Columbia on an unrelated mission discussing economic issues. He gave an immediate statement.

    The headsy exercise of being a hothead or unstable or what's good campaign strategy is insider fluff.

    Actual events: hostage release, McCain's there*, hey that was like hostages being released when Reagan was Pres.

    * yeah yeah, I know they're unrelated

    Reminds me of Jesse Jackson actually (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 03:20:45 PM EST

    Maybe not! (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by befuddledvoter on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 04:34:46 PM EST
    McCain was there stressing human rights.  I think they are related.  

    It's wonderful to hear (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by MsExPat on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 05:21:45 PM EST
    that Ingrid Betancourt was rescued. The New York Times is reporting that the mission was conceived by the Colombians but "supported" by the U.S. military which was "engaged in the planning stages."

    Since these guys were also rescued:

    The three Americans, Marc Gonsalves, Keith Stansell and Thomas Howes, were taken captive in 2003 after their surveillance plane went down on an antinarcotics mission for the United States Defense Department.

    I think we can be pretty sure that the U.S. was a bit more than "engaged in the planning stages."

    And I wouldn't be at all surprised if there was some other "planning" going on behind the scenes, to make sure that McCain's visit coincided with the mission. Because this is just too convenient.


    Actually (none / 0) (#27)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 03:31:48 PM EST
    It was a rescue by the Columbian military.

    So nothing for McCain or Jackson here.


    Unrelated, as I said, however the stories will be (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by Ellie on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 03:50:02 PM EST
    ... naturally paired in media, and associated in viewers' minds. It's a natural newsroom "related" to put on the day's loop, and a natural mnemonic in the viewers' minds.

    (Comical news &c snark: it's like when you get someone's picture in proximity to an outrageous headline that's also accidentally ironic.)

    And surely you know that tinfoil beer hat sippers will be absolutely convinced that McCain pulled strings. Drive this around the watercooler a couple of times and it will be CW that McCain was disreetly working the back channels on this.

    Weary disclaimer: Yes yes I know that's not what actually happened, but it can be fanned into Magic News Realism with little more than the effort to snuff out a tea light.


    If dwelling (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by jondee on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 05:02:56 PM EST
    on the story might involve the danger of giving Hugo Chavez any credit for anything, the coverage will probobly be perfunctory.

    Next revelation: FARC laptops (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by oculus on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 08:47:34 PM EST
    reveal some members of FARC hope Obama wins the election.  

    I remember reading the story in January (none / 0) (#1)
    by andgarden on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 03:00:05 PM EST
    when Rick Santorum was trying to stop John McCain.

    It's a joke (none / 0) (#5)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 03:10:12 PM EST

    You are not furthering the cause of (none / 0) (#9)
    by oculus on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 03:12:31 PM EST
    people who want to make the term "swift boat" honorable again, i.e., people, such as John Kerry, who were assigned to those boats in the Mekong.

    Nope (5.00 / 2) (#12)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 03:13:24 PM EST
    I am not.

    Sadly, I think the Republicans (none / 0) (#22)
    by scribe on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 03:20:16 PM EST
    did so much damage to that name - and the valiant history of those boats - that they're likely never to be viewed the same way.

    But, causing permanent damage to good reputations and useful institutions is, after all, The Republican Way.


    That word's gone. (none / 0) (#32)
    by Pegasus on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 03:37:09 PM EST
    And it's never coming back.  It's passed into the lexicon now.

    not true? (none / 0) (#6)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 03:10:42 PM EST
     John McCain denied a Republican colleague's claim that he roughed up an associate of Nicaraguan President Daniel Ortega on a diplomatic mission in 1987, saying the allegation was "simply not true."

    Hey (5.00 / 3) (#10)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 03:12:49 PM EST
    I am just reporting what is being said.

    I report, you decide.


    there is also this (5.00 / 3) (#13)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 03:14:19 PM EST
    McCain has battled for years with Cochran, a senior member of the Senate Appropriations Committee, over pet projects or "earmarks" inserted by committee members into spending bills.


    even MSNBC is bending over backwards to report McCains side of the story.


    Sure (none / 0) (#16)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 03:17:17 PM EST
    also (none / 0) (#7)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 03:11:51 PM EST
    I guess I didnt actually realize it was 22 years ago.

    Heh (none / 0) (#11)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 03:13:02 PM EST
    Dog Years (none / 0) (#18)
    by squeaky on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 03:18:16 PM EST
    lol, good one.

    Regarding McCain's temper (none / 0) (#35)
    by flyerhawk on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 03:39:13 PM EST
    Whenever I see him talk I always feel like he is just about to snap.   He seems to clench his face a lot when he is engaged in public speaking.

    I will be surprised if he doesn't blow his top publicly at least once before the election.

    I get the same feeling about Obama (none / 0) (#42)
    by dianem on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 03:49:00 PM EST
    It may just be the Illinois accent. That accent drives me nuts - my parents are from Illinois, but I was raised in California. Everything they say sounds "urgent" to me, as if they take everything way too seriously. Of course, Californians generally sound like a bunch of slackers to everybody else, because we have a very "relaxed" accent. My husband was shocked to find out that we are not a bunch of lazy bums who leave work early to surf or sit in hot tubs every day. I didn't realize that my parent's even had an accent until I went back east for a family reunion and realized that everybody there talks like that. In fact, that may be a good part of my bias against Obama.

    Actually... (none / 0) (#52)
    by Alec82 on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 04:14:50 PM EST
    ...I didn't notice the typical Chicago accent from Obama.  Maybe because he grew up elsewhere.

     Since moving to CA from MI I have discovered that the accents of the native born are unrecognizable as human speech patterns. ;-)

     There is nothing, however, that grates on me more than Bush's voice.  I couldn't even get through the 2003 State of the Union address by having a shot every time he said "nuclear" (guaranteed to be a good time, btw).  There were two many other words.  


    thats because it is not a real accent (none / 0) (#54)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 04:17:50 PM EST
    it is a fake manufactured kluged together public relations gimmic.

    You mean nucular don't you? (none / 0) (#56)
    by dianem on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 04:20:14 PM EST
    That drives me, like, insane. I mean, really, like totally crazy. Dude, I cannot tell you how much that annoys me. ;-)

    We need a constitutional amendment: Nobody who cannot pronounce the word "nuclear" shall be allowed to have the codes for our nuclear weapons systems.


    no kidding (none / 0) (#59)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 04:24:09 PM EST
    my first complaint with the Clinton administration was Les Aspin.  who also pronounced it that way.
    it always made the hair on the back of my neck stand up.

    Primaries are like Vegas (none / 0) (#37)
    by dianem on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 03:44:28 PM EST
    What happens in the primary, stays in the primary. The day McCain claimed the position of "Republican candidate", he was cleansed of all sins.  As much as I'd like to believe that right-wingers will rally up and oppose him on principle, I have a hard time convincing myself that this is likely.

    republicans fall in line (5.00 / 2) (#41)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 03:48:12 PM EST
    democrats fall in love.  there was never an election that so magnified and proved that old saw as this one.

    LOL. You are so right, and the break ups can (5.00 / 2) (#43)
    by FLVoter on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 03:49:56 PM EST
    be devastating.

    Eh (none / 0) (#38)
    by nell on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 03:45:15 PM EST
    Apparently McCain is not the only one with the temper:

    See "Barack Obama Screamed at Me." He screamed at a reporter who wrote an unflattering piece about him. I am familiar with Hyde Park and Obama's state senate district, this is a really interesting piece on his role in local politics and his rise to the national stage.


    Anyone can say anything about anyone, doesn't make it so. When I see Obama or McCain blow up in public or in front of me, I will believe it. Until I am shown otherwise, I will assume that their tempers are fine.

    Yelling at a reporter over a story (5.00 / 0) (#49)
    by Pegasus on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 04:08:48 PM EST
    you don't like (something I'd imagine has been done by, oh, every politician ever) and physically assaulting a foreign official aren't quite the same thing, are they?

    a foreign official (5.00 / 0) (#53)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 04:16:10 PM EST
    and a Sandanista is not the same thing.
    just sayin.

    It was an associate of Daniel Ortega, (none / 0) (#55)
    by Pegasus on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 04:19:52 PM EST
    who was the president of Nicaragua at the time.  And it was at a diplomatic function of some sort.  Sandinista or not, that's not somebody he should have been attacking.

    whatever you say (none / 0) (#58)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 04:21:54 PM EST
    Thanks. (none / 0) (#61)
    by Pegasus on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 04:26:36 PM EST
    Good to know I can count one more ally in my fight against US Senators beating people up on diplomatic missions.  :)

    actually (none / 0) (#63)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 04:30:45 PM EST
    considering the state of our relations with the rest of the world I could unfortunately see it becoming fairly routine.

    They may both be true (none / 0) (#46)
    by dianem on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 03:51:36 PM EST
    Or both sort of true. I can imagine Obama angry. It's not as if the reporter is claiming that Obama had a contract taken out on him or anything.  I can also imagine McCain grabbing somebody roughly, although it seems unlikely that he threw the man around the room.

    That's a great article, by the way. It provides real insight into how politics works. If it isn't true, well... we should find out, because this is the kind of thing that can be used to blindside Obama during the fall.


    Befeore "swiftboaters"..... (none / 0) (#47)
    by Veracitor on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 03:59:10 PM EST
    .....there was a ton of right-wing swiftboating on the Internet.  There's a lot of people that have believed for years that McCain is traitor, a Manchurian candidate, a gun-grabber, and a host of other perjoratives.  

    Go Google.