Late Night:: Love The One You're With

The Crosby Stills & Nash concert in Denver last night was terrific. More on that later, but first, two C,S & N songs relevant to today's unity announcement:

If you can't be with the one you love

love the one you're with


On trains, all aboard the Marrakesh Express:

Hope the days that lie ahead
Bring us back to where they've led
Listen not to what's been said to you

Would you know we're riding
on the Marrakesh Express
Would you know we're riding
on the Marrakesh Express
All on board that train

About last night's concert: Graham Nash was having the best time, he's clearly the personality of the group these days. Stephen Stills' guitar just rocked the house. He brought his guitar right up to the audience every time he did a solo. Sitting in the 4th row I could see his veins pulsating with energy. At the end of each one, the audience cheered and he would throw his guitar pics into the crowd.

The group is as political as ever. More surprising to me was how strong their voices are after all these decades. They did three sets, two electric and one acoustic (with a half hour intermission) and had new songs mixed in with the oldies. The new ones were all political -- anti-war, anti-Bush, anti-military recruiters on campus. They mentioned Obama only once and said "Let's get Obama elected to the White House. Yes indeed-y." Since this was a non-political concert (it was a high-end benefit for an organ transplant foundation, coincidentally founded by Denver lawyer Steve Farber, himself the recipient of a kidney transplant, who also serves as a co-chair of the Denver Host Committee in charge of raising money for the Denver Convention) there was polite clapping and some cheers but not like you'd get at an Obama rally. Another one of their new songs was faith-based, a song to G-d asking him to stop the killing in his name.

Colorado Governor Bill Ritter was in the audience, second row, with his kids. C,S & N were clearly delighted and dedicated the song in the clip below to him -- changing the words "Won't you please come to Chicago" to "Won't you please come to Denver" ("we can change the world, re-arrange the world.") Graham Nash has granted a license to the protest group ComeOnUpToDenver to use the song, so here's their version:

Open up the door
Somehow people must be free
I hope the day comes soon
Won't you please come to Denver
Show your face
From the bottom to the ocean
To the mountains of the moon
Won't you please come to Denver
No one else can take your place
We can change the world -
Re-arrange the world.

They played for 3 hours (less the half hour intermission) and did two encores. The first encore was the old Buffalo Springfield song, "For What It's Worth" which they had the audience sing along with them, and the final one was "Teach Your Children Well." During the encores they repeatedly and enthusiastically referenced the Democratic convention being held in Denver, which really got the crowd psyched.

While I'm thinking about Stephen Stills, I can't help but remember one of my favorite songs ever back in the old days -- from the Supersession album with Al Kooper and Mike Bloomfield -- Season of the Witch.

When I look over my shoulder what do you think I see
Someone looking over their shoulder at me
It's so very very strange
You've got to pick up every stitch right now
Must be the season of the witch.

This is an open thread.

< Europeans Weigh US Demand For Private Information | Unity And Ideals >
  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft

  • Display: Sort:
    Chicago boy killed by lousy housing (5.00 / 3) (#8)
    by Cream City on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 12:44:12 AM EST
    in Chicago today, crushed to death by a large gate that fell on top of him while he played.  Residents of the complex where the three-year-old was killed today, the infamous Cabrini-Green, say that the property is poorly maintained and that the gate was rusted.

    The housing complex is managed by Urban Property Advisors, whose CEO is Cullen Davis, Obama donor and son of Allison Davis -- connected to Obama's old law firm and mentioned in the Boston Globe article on the condition of Chicago housing turned over to such private developers in legislation pushed by Obama, funded with his support, etc.  

    The Globe story ran in the NYT, too -- and ties to Rezko, a story that looks like it's not going away.  Not while little boys die while they play.

    Stellaaa (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by oculus on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 12:52:03 AM EST
    Yep. She's our Cassandra on this topic (nt) (none / 0) (#14)
    by Cream City on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 12:53:42 AM EST
    You rang? (none / 0) (#21)
    by Stellaaa on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 01:22:12 AM EST
    I don't want to say anything, because I really want to respect Jeralyn's wishes.

    I thought Cabrini Green was (none / 0) (#27)
    by oculus on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 01:29:29 AM EST
    demolished years ago.  

    I think they did (5.00 / 0) (#29)
    by Stellaaa on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 01:32:56 AM EST
    a Hope 6 project.  Nothing to do with Obama type Hope.  HOPE  6 is the way that the Feds are "rebuilding" public housing, by making the projects mixed income and doing joint ventures with developers.  I think Cabrini was done a few years ago, so it makes sense that the "developer" was one of the Obama/Rezko affordable housing crowd.  

    HOPE VI (none / 0) (#35)
    by Stellaaa on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 01:47:05 AM EST
    this is one of the best HUD acronyms,  Housing Opportunities for People Everywhere.  Yep, you can thank Jack Kemp for that one.  
    He had a a HOPE I all the way to a VI.  

    ot (none / 0) (#63)
    by boredmpa on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 03:43:17 AM EST
    but do you know anything about hunter's view? (i forget but arent you SF?) is it separate from hunter's point?  i noticed that they are piloting the LEED-Neighborhood plan for hunter's view---which basically incorporates the ideal green buildings design with a pedestrian/transit/neighborhood friendly design.



    I know that (none / 0) (#111)
    by Stellaaa on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 11:22:33 AM EST
    Hunter's View, I think is the official name of the SFHA project in Hunter's Point.  And I think they are going to do a HOPE VI.  The HOPE VI have all the bells and whistles.  

    In... (none / 0) (#28)
    by Alec82 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 01:30:59 AM EST
    ...Candyman 2?

     Sorry, too easy.


    I just read the Boston Globe (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by Grace on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 04:19:47 AM EST
    article on Chicaqo housing...  Sheesh!  I remember the new Chicago housing being pointed out as an example to be copied!  

    I sure hope this doesn't happen in LA.  Right now, most of the new housing going in downtown has to have a certain percentage of the building devoted to low income residents (it's under 10% of the units).  The rest of the units are selling or renting for market price -- which is a pretty high price.  So far, the city has made it sound like this has been a successful plan.    

    I "thought" this was the same type of thing that was being done in Chicago but it doesn't appear to be since, from the article, it appears whole buildings are nothing but low income housing.  

    Does anyone know if there is a difference or not?    


    I agree with Obama that involving (1.50 / 2) (#36)
    by MKS on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 01:54:41 AM EST
    private developers is generally a good idea....

    This site has convinced me that Hillary's name should not be placed in nomination at the convention.....Time to cut off those who are in reality McCain supporters.  Time to move on.


    And you were favorable (5.00 / 2) (#37)
    by Cream City on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 02:01:21 AM EST
    previously to having her name put in nomination?

    Yeh.  Thought so.


    I was, and (2.00 / 0) (#42)
    by MKS on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 02:16:52 AM EST
    earlier today I even thought that there was a chance that she could be VP.

    But it seems quite foolish for Obama to try to please perhaps a few thousand Hillary-turned- McCain supporters.....

    Perhaps the idea was to allow Hillary supporters to vent and they would eventually come along.   I do not think that some of them will--it's simply a lost cause trying to persuade them.  Given the constant anti-Obama venom, it does not make any sense to give such venom any more time in the sun.....Not at the convention.  Cut them all off....Hillary knows when it is time to join the team--unfortunately some of her supporters do not.

    Moreover, having a roll-call vote is just asking for trouble.....Those who still think delegates could switch their vote would wait until the very end at the convention to believe the race is over.....and until then would continue to work against Obama and undermine him at every turn. Finality is needed.

    Any courtesy Obama now extends just fuels more venom--he was not sincere today, of course, in his praise of Hillary....

    Time to move on.  You can't please everyone....Obama should focus on those who can be persuaded....


    How about the importance of tradition (5.00 / 3) (#45)
    by Cream City on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 02:23:54 AM EST
    and posterity by upholding it for this candidate, who happens to be a woman, since it has been done for dozens of male candidates in the past -- all of whom won far fewer votes?  (Necessarily so, since Clinton won more votes in a primary than anyone ever, woman or man, in any party.)

    Is everything from the proud past of the party to be jettisoned for the New Dems?  Is that really wise, when it is the party's history of fighting for the underdog that still draws so many of the base to it?

    And what will Obama's daughters and ours think about it, when they read in the history books that tradition was upsot this time -- after their daddy told them and everyone that Clinton did shatter the glass ceiling?  Is it only cracked, after all?    Or perhaps it is the party that is showing cracks . . . and if so, is the way to repair them to ignore them?


    That claim about more votes isn't really accurate. (4.00 / 0) (#102)
    by halstoon on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 09:58:07 AM EST
    You're not counting the people who went to caucuses and voted for Obama in several states. Hillary raised more money and got more votes than any candidate in a primary, ever, in either party, other than Barack Obama. Just so that's clear.

    I'm not entrenched in party tradition, so I'm not sure what you're talking about there? Is it tradition to have the delegates nominate their candidate at the convention, even if that person is not the nominee? Would that mean Edwards gets nominated by his delegates before they eventually vote for Obama? If that is tradition, since Obama did not win enough pledged delegates to be the nominee, will that not mean at least 2 rounds of voting? Or have enough superdels endorsed him to make him the nominee on the first ballot?


    Halstoon, once again: Nonsense (none / 0) (#114)
    by Cream City on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 11:27:59 AM EST
    You simply cannot discount votes cast.

    This is not about convention delegates discounted by the Dem party.  Votes were cast.  More were for Clinton.  Check the state secretary of state sites.

    And that is so even counting caucuses -- at least, those that can be counted, as we can't check them all on such sites, because some have not been certified yet by the states.  Hmm, wonder why. . . .

    Historical revisionism is unattractive.  Looks like ignorance or delusion.  And I think that you are not ignorant, at least not on this topic, as we certainly have had to go over and over this with you here.


    What about my question to you? (none / 0) (#126)
    by halstoon on Mon Jun 30, 2008 at 05:29:34 PM EST
    What is the tradition of nominating a candidate who has suspended their campaign?

    I'll not quibble about votes. Count Michigan and give Obama zero. Fine. Don't count the states that don't do head counts--or don't release them--at their caucuses. If you do all that, Hillary Clinton won more votes. Happy? She should be very proud, and I mean that very seriously. She really should be. Not about the votes thing, but about her effort. It was wonderful.


    Trade-offs (2.00 / 0) (#47)
    by MKS on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 02:33:55 AM EST
    There are enough Hillary supporters who are not onboard and still talking about Obama just being the "presumptive" nominee....

    They won't play ball.....why give them a platform to cause trouble.....

    My concern about Obama has always been that he was too much like Adlai, and did not have the toughness to win....I have seen enough now to know that is not true.....He needs to put his foot down, and a little red state order and decisiveness is needed.

    The Hillary supporters need to know the train is leaving, and they need to get onboard or get left behind--in what is most likely going to be a historic election.  Hillary gets it....would that more of her supporters did too.


    So (5.00 / 0) (#92)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 08:39:57 AM EST
    They won't play ball.....why give them a platform to cause trouble.....

    Why bother having more than one candidate at all, by your logic.


    Well, Obama is the presumptive nominee (4.25 / 4) (#84)
    by Cream City on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 07:34:40 AM EST
    until nominated.  That's just the term for it, and you'll have to live with it.  You might just get your head out of your whatever and note that the same term is used for McCain, and he actually has clinched the nomination, i.e., he has enough pledged delegates.  See, that's what the term clinched always meant before this year, too, when it was appropriated by Obama backers with so little knowledged of presidential campaigns. . . .

    Btw, you also continue to be presumptive yourself as to how people unhappy with your candidate will vote.  They may be planning to vote for him, if tepidly, as we say here -- so you might be tipping them the other way, y'know.  Or they may not be planning to vote for Obama or for McCain, as there actually are more than two options at all times to the truly creative class of thinkers.  

    As for your classy comment about Obama "putting his foot down" -- oh, yes, please do tell your guy to get all paternalistic.  That will go over reeeeeeal well with women, as well as with others who are not the type to take orders.  

    I look forward to your reply for more laffs, more lines to enter in the annals of disastrous politics.  


    The Democrats need (2.00 / 0) (#55)
    by MKS on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 03:12:37 AM EST
    to show they can run a convention.....

    There have been months of anti-Obama criticism....
    I am convinced after today some of it will never stop.  

    Those Hillary supporters who will vote for Obama have most likely already decided to do so; those who have not, will probably never come around....

    No threats; just reality, the ship needs to sail.....The time has come for people to decide if they want to be on that ship or not.


    Your post is too funny! (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by Grace on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 03:40:32 AM EST
    You realize, of course, if he wins there will be NOTHING but criticism?  Heavy duty criticism from all sides?  What he's going through now is nothing!  He would have to walk on water after January to avoid the criticism that will come -- and it will come.  No president in my lifetime has ever been immune to this!  

    Sure, but you don't kowtow (2.00 / 0) (#64)
    by MKS on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 03:46:40 AM EST
    to your critics....

    I am not saying that the Hillary supporters will stop criticizing Obama; just that Obama needs to give them as little a megaphone as possible, and that includes no roll-call vote at the convention.


    And I totally disagree with you. (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by Grace on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 03:56:29 AM EST
    Hillary earned a roll call.  She earned those delegates.

    If she gets treated badly again, it's not going to bring more of her supporters to Obama.  It will be like telling them to "get over it" all over again.  



    Oh come on. This is pretty transparent. (5.00 / 4) (#73)
    by kempis on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 06:08:43 AM EST
    What you're attempting to do is warn those who aren't yet on the Obama bandwagon that their lack of support is going to hurt their candidate by denying her a roll call at the convention, something over which you have no say. Therefore, this is mere taunting.

    And you seem to fear that such a roll call will be a force for disunity. It looks like this fear is causing you to resort to blackmail: you guys better stop expressing doubts about Obama or no ice cream (or boat rides) for you!

    I will hold my nose and vote for Obama. I will also be critical of him. My vote will not be out of admiration--far from it--but out of what I perceive to be necessity. However, I also completely understand the feelings of those who cannot see themselves supporting him. Some days, I feel that way, too. I don't know when I've ever been more disappointed in a politician. And that's saying a lot when you think about it. But the fact that I'll probably still vote for him says even more about the sorry state of the rightwingnut-dominated GOP.  

    So my ship, to further belabor the metaphor, is like Noah's Ark: there's room for every kind of animal. And I suspect that this ship is a lot bigger than the one you keep trying to cattle prod people aboard with idle threats.

    Think about what you're doing. It's counterproductive. Berating people for not seeing things the way you do may be momentarily gratifying, but there's almost always a backlash. You want unity? Stop threatening.

    But I can see how you'd admire "red state" discipline. You seem to have a pretty authoritarian, my-way-or-the-highway perspective.  


    No ice cream? No boat rides? (5.00 / 3) (#85)
    by Cream City on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 07:38:32 AM EST
    No unity pony?  Well, then, that's it.  I'm putting my foot down, and I'm not going to the polls unless I get at least two scoops, with jimmies, and a cherry on top.  

    But if you have any extras along the lines of clearing out the corruption in the party to its core, I could settle for that instead of jimmies.  And it just might get me to the polls. :-)


    what are jimmies? (none / 0) (#127)
    by halstoon on Mon Jun 30, 2008 at 05:34:29 PM EST
    MKS....NEWSFLASH....he is NOT the (2.00 / 1) (#112)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 11:23:57 AM EST
    nominee....still doesn't have the required number of pledged delegates...SD's were thrown into the mix to okie doke, bamboozle and hoodwink the ill-informed electorate...check back after the convention and we'll talk.

    This post is why a roll call is a bad idea (5.00 / 1) (#123)
    by MKS on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 03:33:04 PM EST
    Whatever you say...obama followers (4.00 / 1) (#124)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 03:38:50 PM EST
    always know better.

    I think there are a lot less (5.00 / 3) (#58)
    by Grace on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 03:33:30 AM EST
    But it seems quite foolish for Obama to try to please perhaps a few thousand Hillary-turned- McCain supporters.....

    A few thousand?  Nah.  We took a roll call.  There were only 25 of us.  But we're very vocal and we signed up with multiple names on multiple websites so no one would be able to figure out how few of us there are.  We also post on all the rabid Right Winger websites like..., um, well I can't really think of any of them right now.  This is why we are so good at making up snarky names for Obama like "Barack" and "Obama."  (We're not clever like those Obama supporters with their "McSame.")  We are here for the "McCain points" which we can redeem for fun things like adult diapers and hearing aids.  

    And you?  Are you getting "Obama points" by trying to convert us?  What do you get with "Obama points"?  Ipods and Iphones?  I-Tunes downloads?  Unfortunately McCain only recognizes AM radio so we primarily get tips on how to tune into the news and country music on our transistor radios.

    So...  I'm really sorry that you're giving up on persuading the 25 of us who think we "might" vote for McCain.  We were really enjoying your company.  Many of us are actually on the fence now but we are somewhat adamant that Hillary was treated wrongly by the press, the DNC, and others.        

    You might find it easier to start persuading those who post on religious websites since Obama is already doing an outreach to them.    


    if i thought (4.00 / 1) (#61)
    by boredmpa on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 03:39:48 AM EST
    there was a chance in hell of
    a) primary reform
    b) support for hillary or edwards more progressive policies or just democratic policies in general

    i would still be on the fence.  but there's not, so the only fence im straddling is the sexual orientation one. and d@mn but there are some hot hot hot boyish looking grrls here in SF during pride week. decisions decisions.


    I think this comment (none / 0) (#65)
    by MKS on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 03:48:51 AM EST
    has a lot of truth to it:

    You might find it easier to start persuading those who post on religious websites since Obama is already doing an outreach to them.    

    The problem (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 07:03:33 AM EST
    is that it's not a few thousand, it's a few million.

    VP (5.00 / 0) (#81)
    by mmc9431 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 07:12:38 AM EST
    There are a few reason he should have Hilary as his VP. (Aside from party unity)  The most important one is because he needs a strong arm behind him. As much as I dislike Cheney, no one can deny he succeeded in pushing the Bush agenda through Congress. Obama shouldn't count on Ted Kennedy to be the man behind the scene. Hilary has shown the strength and determination for the job. I haven't heard any other name brought forward that could accomplish this as well as her.

    Nice reality ya got there (5.00 / 0) (#87)
    by wasabi on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 08:16:12 AM EST
    If you think he needs to convince just "a few thousand Hillary-turned- McCain supporters....." you are in big time denial.
    If 10K are in this league, then that would be 0.05% of her supporters from the primaries.  What I am seeing reported is closer to 20% who still are questioning tranferring their allegiance to him.

    How about showing a little respect?


    Voter tip: getting the right people to Move On (5.00 / 0) (#104)
    by Ellie on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 10:04:29 AM EST
    Well I hope you or any others didn't hurt yourselves too much "allowing" this infinitesimally teensy concession:

    Perhaps the idea was to allow Hillary supporters to vent and they would eventually come along.   I do not think that some of them will--it's simply a lost cause trying to persuade them

    Plastering over the problem with astro-trolling isn't what is required here, nor is a deployed Club O volunteer condescending to this very special shared-feelings moment.

    Obama himself must show leadership, make amends, explain himself on FISA and Iraq and other serious issues.

    He must earn the trust of voters that he, personally, has lost and which his arrogant supporters have repelled.

    It has been said many times and much plainer than this. Reducing voter distrust to pique and trying various lines of transparent Turfing Points Memo BS won't "get" you what you want.

    It's a dumb strategy, dumber when you get stompy too if it doesn't fly.

    You won't likely have success by complaining that you were put out because you condescended on HRC supporters with transparent self-help psycho-caca and didn't make converts.

    You're an oPod astrotroll may have an important role to play in duping inattentive voters and getting them to the polls. Good luck with that.

    From what I've read at TL, most of these voters here are interested in Obama's positions, words and actions.

    You're under the false impression that because HRC declared her support for BO, "her" millions of Racists / B!tches / Malcontents only need the "correct" Move On BS turfed on 'em by the cunning likes of you (and other pesterbots) before YOU can move on.

    I think you should spare everyone the irritation just Move On now.


    Obama won't be explaining his FISA (5.00 / 1) (#110)
    by MyLeftMind on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 11:17:51 AM EST
    position.  Either he now believes warrantless spying is necessary, or he's just fishing for votes from right wingers who don't and/or won't understand it.  A large proportion of American voters simply can't see the dangers of the government hearing our conversations.  Either way, we're not going to get an explanation because if he makes statements that reassure us, his flip is no longer useful for getting votes from the right.

    If he actually pandered or lied to us last fall and this spring, he's obviously still not going to explain his position.

    Our job as citizens is to try to figure out Obama's real positions as he moves to the right to get votes from middle America.  If he's really on our side, then we get a president who will turn our country around.  If not, we're still in the struggle we've been in for the last eight years.  

    If we're absolutely sure he's a stealth candidate, pretending to be liberal while actually harboring right wing suppress the masses and accumulate wealth in corporations kinds of ideology, then we need to select and agree on a third party replacement.

    BTW, the third party option is actually quite achievable, given the amount of attention being paid by Democrats in this election.


    I haven't seen any posts by Jeralyn (none / 0) (#39)
    by oculus on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 02:10:16 AM EST
    or BTD on whether or not Hillary Clinton's name should be placed in nomination at the convention.  Did I miss something?  

    It is not a post by Jeralyn or BTD (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by MKS on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 02:20:30 AM EST
    but rather the futility of trying to persaude many here.....That futility becomes more and more apparent every day.  

    Today, Hillary makes a joint appearance with Obama, and the reaction here is the standard anti-Obama rhetoric.  Hopeless.


    It is truly futile (5.00 / 0) (#46)
    by Edgar08 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 02:31:06 AM EST
    To blame one group of people for responding in a certain way to a certain set of circumstances and not to blame the people responsible for creating those circumstances.

    I guarantee you every moment you spend on an Obamablog explaining to them how badly they have behaved for the last year and a half is wise investment.

    I would give the same kind of advice to Obama himself, for it would elevate an event like today to something higher than political theater.


    There is no more time (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by MKS on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 02:40:45 AM EST
    There has been more than enough "explaining to them how badly they have behaved."

    To humor such attacks only allows them to fester....There will be a minority who insist on getting McCain elected....Let them go...Let the others declare.

    Democrats love endless process--this is their great weakness.....it is time to decide already and move on....


    Oh (5.00 / 0) (#51)
    by Edgar08 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 02:47:10 AM EST
    I don't believe there has been.

    But I do agree it might be too late.


    See, even you say it is too late (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by MKS on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 03:03:47 AM EST
    The ship needs to sail now.....Some unfortunately will have to be left behind--because that is what they want....

    No, that is not what "they" want (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by nycstray on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 03:08:00 AM EST
    and who are you, exactly, to decide when it's time "for the ship to sail"?

    You may want to step back and try and understand the many different 'issues' at stake here . . . It's not so simple as "the Obama Train". Sorry, but that's just reality.


    Hillary has already decided (none / 0) (#56)
    by MKS on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 03:14:52 AM EST
    That is as good a barometer as exists....

    No she hasn't (none / 0) (#125)
    by nycstray on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 06:34:22 PM EST
    not for many. She's working to unite the party, but will make sure our voices are heard. She's not leaving us behind, as much as you would like that, it seems.

    Ok then (5.00 / 0) (#57)
    by Edgar08 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 03:15:10 AM EST
    Well.  Get on with it.

    What's holding you up?


    Are you really trying to say (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by Grace on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 03:37:04 AM EST
    "Obama doesn't need your money" and that's why the ship is going to sail?  The guy who sells the tickets has to go home now?    

    Oh well.  As my mother always said "There are many ships in the ocean."  (There are also many ships "on the ocean" but the failing ships are "in the ocean.")  ;-)


    Is that ship named Hesparus? (none / 0) (#78)
    by Molly Pitcher on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 07:03:26 AM EST
    what horrifies me (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by boredmpa on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 03:35:24 AM EST
    is that there will be no attempt, and he and the faux dems like pelosi will still win.

    politics is about systems and pressure, if he wins with no real pressure or balancing or shift to the left (the idea is laughable, i know) then the democrats short time in power will be wasted imho. and it will be followed by a mccain clone or worse and a loss of congress.  unless he pulls an FDR, but thats about as likely as him shifting left.


    Good answer (5.00 / 0) (#91)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 08:37:40 AM EST
    Let's carry it a step further.  Just don't fight for anything!

    Deferred gratification, MKS (none / 0) (#115)
    by Cream City on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 11:30:05 AM EST
    is the hallmark of maturity.  There is plenty of time for much to happen -- maybe even for your candidate to figure out how to talk with Clinton supporters.  You have many, many months to go until November, and you just can't move up the election.  Or even the nomination and the convention.

    Men (and Women) Behaving Badly (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by indy in sc on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 09:55:07 AM EST
    I guarantee you every moment you spend on an Obamablog explaining to them how badly they have behaved for the last year and a half is wise investment.

    Part of the problem is that there is no convincing the die-hards on either side that their candidate/campaign/supporters behaved anything other than beyond reproach and that it wasn't just the "other side" that crossed lines.  I think that is heightened in the blogosphere and doesn't exist with as much immobility elsewhere.  


    There's a reason Obama couches his (1.00 / 1) (#119)
    by MyLeftMind on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 11:42:28 AM EST
    respectful remarks about Hillary in terms of his daughters having a role model and him being a stronger candidate for having run against her.  He's trying to appeal to people who absolutely hate the Clintons.  He's trying to look as strong and tough as McCain.  He can say he's grateful to the challenges his primary opponent gave him, but he can't lavish praise on her in the way that would people think she should have won instead of him.  What would be the point of that, saying, even admitting she's better than him?  Hillary supporters might think so, but until he's selected at the convention it would do him no good, in fact serious harm, to pander to Hillary supporters in that way.  Until he's the nominee, she's still a contender.  

    you are (5.00 / 2) (#75)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 06:59:53 AM EST
    making a classic Obama mistake here. Hillary supporters are not a cult who can be ordered to vote for Obama. Yes, there are many who Obama will never get due to his lack of qualifications. It's Obama's responsbility to get people to vote for him. Apparently he seems to think that he can just coast to the election like Kerry did.

    And there are none of the above voters too.


    So stop with the futile comments, please (none / 0) (#76)
    by Molly Pitcher on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 07:01:03 AM EST
    Hillary supporters are not McCain supporters (5.00 / 4) (#50)
    by Jeralyn on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 02:45:02 AM EST
    for the most part, even here. They are just Hillary supporters.

    I have to agree with you. (5.00 / 3) (#66)
    by Grace on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 03:52:00 AM EST
    I think a lot of Hillary supporters, even though we are angry, are still somewhat undecided.  We don't have any VP's yet.  Obama still isn't showing us "leadership" and "backbone" and "progressive values."  

    I dunno....  

    I'm officially what I would call "a tough sell."  Obama is going to have to sell himself to me and he hasn't yet.    


    Thank you (5.00 / 2) (#82)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 07:12:51 AM EST
    Jeralyn. Some people don't seem to understand that there's such a thing as leaving the presidential ballot blank.

    Actually, I've been told (3.50 / 2) (#122)
    by echinopsia on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 01:47:39 PM EST
    on more than one occasion that anything other than a vote for Obama (even if you don't vote at all) is a vote for McCain.

    This is nonsense, of course, but it's been my experience that the people who say this with absolute and utter conviction have also been believing a half-dozen other nonsensical things before breakfast every day for the past 18 months. So this isn't a stretch for them, and there's no possible way of shaking their beliefs. We are not dealing with reasonable people here.

    (Heh. That's what I used to tell my lawyer while I was divorcing my alkie ex: "I don't know why he's doing this. But you have to remember that we are not dealing with a reasonable person.")


    And Not All Reluctance To Vote For Obama (4.00 / 3) (#96)
    by MO Blue on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 08:55:33 AM EST
    is based on previous support of Hillary for president.

    I'm in a holding pattern waiting for Obama to take a FIRM, CONSISTENT position(s) on issues that I care about. So far, I'm completely in the dark about what Obama is willing to fight for other than gaining the presidency.

    I'm from MO where we say "If you don't like the weather, wait a minute, it will change." That statement IMO could easily apply to Obama's position on many issues.  


    Ha. Must be a Midwestern saying (5.00 / 1) (#117)
    by Cream City on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 11:34:40 AM EST
    as that's exactly what we say in Wisconsin.  (So far today, we have had a couple of seasons already.:-)

    Of course, Wisconsin also likes mavericks, something different in candidates.  That Obama is just same old, same old conventional politics, after all, is not the candidate that many saw here in the primary.

    So now he has to do the conventional thing and explain himself, his principles, his positions, much more than before.  And stick to them, as you say.  

    In sum, he did well here as what seemed to be a  Feingold liberal maverick kinda guy.  And now he clearly couldn't look farther from a Feingold kinda guy.  But that, again, is about what Obama is not -- and to win, he has to be clear about what he is.


    And this is the same Cullen Davis who (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by zfran on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 12:48:21 AM EST
    is from Texas and had been accused of murder?

    No; see link re Cullen Davis of Chitown (nt) (none / 0) (#11)
    by Cream City on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 12:50:07 AM EST
    Sorry, that was T. Cullen Davis. (none / 0) (#15)
    by zfran on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 12:55:57 AM EST
    Is this a "cover" of the song Doris Day (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by oculus on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 12:50:57 AM EST
    sang to Gig Young?

    Feingold plans post-break FISA filibuster (5.00 / 3) (#43)
    by Cream City on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 02:19:04 AM EST
    if amendment is not accepted; see story in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel on plans to "use every legislative tactic at his disposal to try to block the bill from moving forward."  Willing to tilt at windmills again, Wisconsin's Senator admits "it's a quixotic strategy."  But:

    By joining forces with Sen. Chris Dodd (D-Conn.) to filibuster the legislation this week, the two postponed a final vote on the bill until after senators return from a weeklong break July 7.  The delay, Feingold said, will help the bill's critics marshal opposition to the plan as Americans learn more about the proposed eavesdropping law.

    "This is an effort to make sure people understand what is happening so we can fix it later," he said. "It's a very frightening, unprecedented intrusion into the privacy rights of all Americans."

    The truth is... (5.00 / 2) (#69)
    by Alec82 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 04:00:01 AM EST
    ...there is something horribly wrong with our government.

     You can blast Obama and the Democratic Party, I can blast President Clinton for getting us here, or, more aptly, we can all blast President Bush.  It really won't make a difference. They don't care.

     But this truth remains: Our calls are going unanswered.  We don't have a voice in Washington, whether we contact them, vote for them, etc.  And that should disturb all of us, whatever our positions in the primary.

     Our government is being changed into something we really cannot recognize.  After FISA, I wonder about the new Democratic Party....perhaps they are after power for power's sake.  I don't know.  But what's going on here? This is infighting.  Maybe it will take Obama supporters to apologize first, I don't know.  But if you care about where we're going, I suspect it won't matter that much.  


    The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.

    If only the Clinton Administration (5.00 / 0) (#71)
    by Edgar08 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 04:23:31 AM EST
    Never existed, we wouldn't be where we're at right now.

    I think we were headed in the right direction back in the 90s.


    Heh! I agree with you (5.00 / 3) (#72)
    by Grace on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 05:50:37 AM EST
    for the most part -- and I wanted to post right after you posted this but I spilled a drink on my keyboard and it went nuts...  Figures, eh?  The first time I agree with you and my computer won't cooperate.  

    I really think we need more parties.  This "two party" thing isn't working.  All these guys are friends with each other and the whole system is a joke.  

    We need to have 5+ parties, maybe as many as 20 parties.  We need to have a whole bunch of parties.  We need to force them all to work together.  

    What we have now is Republicans and Democrats and they seem to all be about the same.  Seriously.  Yeah, Nancy stomps her feet every now and again and she sends out a few "Harsh letters" -- but c'mon....  Is this the best she can do?  This is a joke.  Tom DeLay was "The Hammer" when he had her job.  She's what?  "The Powder Puff?"  

    Anyway, I feel like the whole system is failing me.  I can't line up behind Obama because he just "fails to qualify" for what I expect for a Presidential candidate.  I imagine he would have been a great Vice President -- but he's really not Presidential material.  He's too *raw*.  I want more.  

    He looks good.  He seems like a nice guy.  But that's not enough to run for President -- you know what I mean?  


    We should all blame Ronald Reagan (5.00 / 2) (#77)
    by magisterludi on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 07:01:18 AM EST
    in the grand scheme. Rampant deregulation, tossing the Fairness Doctrine, cutting off R&D on alternative energy, deficits don't matter, etc. That the man has been turned into an icon for many is a true testament to the power of sheer unadulterated propaganda.
    The state of the world today lays at the feet of the RR administration, imo.

    I don't want to vote for Obama because he's still willing to push that dangerous myth. But McCain holds Reagan as a god, which is far more dangerous.

    Obama's little conversation with the NV newspaper lauding Reagan and the GOP and diminishing Clinton chilled me to my bones. I have never been as wary of the dem candidate in a presidential election as I am of Obama, and that's saying something from a yellow dog democrat.

    That said, it's a crap shoot with either one, but I won't vote McCain in protest.


    I think (5.00 / 3) (#83)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 07:15:25 AM EST
    this is something we all can agree on. There's a huge problem going on within the party and no one to fix it right now. I hate to say this but Pelosi has become just like Delay--craven and corrupt. They each only have one master.

    I agree (5.00 / 0) (#74)
    by mmc9431 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 06:45:51 AM EST
    That Hilary supporters need to  "get over it". There isn't going to be any last minute change. Obama will get the nomination. But Obama and his supporters also need to realize that they need Hilary's supporters. Too many think this is going to be such a cake walk for Obama. I think they either over estimate his appeal or they under estimate McCain. Either scenario is a mistake. The western strategy isn't a given. Dem's are going to need the blue collar support in places like Ohio, MO MI and such. I don't want to see McCain in the WH because of arrogance.

    I agree (5.00 / 2) (#86)
    by delacarpa on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 07:49:44 AM EST
    Funny, I dobn't want Obama in the White House because of his arrogance period

    Isn't he "likeable enough"? (5.00 / 1) (#88)
    by Cream City on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 08:28:03 AM EST
    That's all he needs -- just enough.  So he needs to take some risks, as presidents do.  He needs to start putting serious meat on the bones of his policies, not just words.  That worked for the primary, but it doesn't work in a general election -- and especially not to win over the middle group of voters, those not committed to a party.  

    They're the ones who always decide general elections these days.  And they're a lot of the ones in the polls and focus groups who still are undecideds -- who still haven't found him to be "likable enough."


    Unfortunately (5.00 / 2) (#97)
    by mmc9431 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 09:10:26 AM EST
    Rather than putting meat on the bone, Obama seems determined to strip the meat off the bone! (Death Penalty, FISA, Guns).

    Agreed (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by befuddledvoter on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 09:21:24 AM EST
    Obama is all over the place.  The more I see and hear the less I trust him.  Note, I am not a big McCain supporter at all either. I cannot believe that after the primaries, these are the best two candidates this country could muster.  I liked McCain when he was the maverick, not the faithful follower of the right.  Both candiates are frought with great risk.  

    Obama is the least experienced candidate we have ever had.  His recent positions make it harder for me to support him.  He really troubles me.  So, if the train is leaving, I say "GO"!  On the fence and not very happy.  


    That also applies to people who (5.00 / 0) (#98)
    by MO Blue on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 09:17:04 AM EST
    were once very committed to the Democratic Party and have now joined the Independent demographic.

    Both Obama and the Democratic Party needs to take some risks and provide some evidence that they will actually stand for something other than not being Republican. A Democratic candidate or party that advances the agenda of the Republicans is worse than useless IMO.  All it does is provide the illusion that voters can change the agenda by voting for the so called opposition party or candidate.


    Yep. Again, as above, what Obama is not (none / 0) (#118)
    by Cream City on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 11:37:18 AM EST
    is not what wins a general election.  And now we know more and more by the day about what he is not.

    When does he begin to be clear about what he is?  There is time, sure -- but carpe diem is a worthy saying still, and with McCain all over the place, too, this was the perfect time to define Obama.


    LA Times: Unity Rally Sweetie Gate II (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by Exeter on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 08:32:34 AM EST

    His general patronizing tone "and she does it better than men... and in heels" riff wasn't so much offensive as signs of a really, really outdated sexist thinking. It's the same kind of ham-handed, patronizing riffs that older male politicians do when they compliment their wife's or another politician's wife with the typical "they're the REAL Boss" or "they're actually the brains behind the operation" riffs. For all the promotion of Obama as a Gen Xer that has an evolved view on gender and race, the truth is that on gender still sounds more like a politician of McCain's generation.    

    And our opponent (drumroll.......) (none / 0) (#107)
    by MyLeftMind on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 10:48:36 AM EST
    McCain says:.  
    And I stopped beating my wife just a couple of weeks ago . . .

    In other news... (5.00 / 2) (#95)
    by magisterludi on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 08:48:34 AM EST
    the price of meat will rise dramatically this fall, along with soy and corn products. Gasoline will continue to rise in price, but may level off. GM is worth 7 billion- half the worth of Avon (buh-bye) and the North Pole has a 50-50 shot at being ice-free this year for the first time in human history.

    Also, the next banking domino to fall will be on smaller, regional banks who financed all those builders of urban sprawl.


    More after the commercial break (none / 0) (#99)
    by CoralGables on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 09:20:35 AM EST
    In more economic news ...

    "Historically, the stock market bottoms before economic activity bottoms," says Paul Kasriel, an economist at Northern Trust bank. "This is not exactly a good omen, because the stock market doesn't appear to be bottoming."


    trip down memory lane (2.66 / 3) (#6)
    by sher on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 12:24:21 AM EST
    thank you

    I only saw... (none / 0) (#1)
    by Alec82 on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 11:50:23 PM EST
    ...what was on Washington Week today, a very short clip.  Senator Clinton's clip was very funny.  

    Just not the same without Y. (none / 0) (#2)
    by Joan in VA on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 12:08:35 AM EST

    True (none / 0) (#3)
    by Jeralyn on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 12:11:11 AM EST
    I couldn't believe how many people sitting around me wanted to hear "Ohio" but without Neil Young, it wasn't going to happen.

    They were one of my favorite bands in HS, (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by Joan in VA on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 12:15:54 AM EST
    They're still good and Neil is good on his own.

    Funniest Neil Young story (5.00 / 2) (#26)
    by Stellaaa on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 01:29:10 AM EST
    I was at a bar up in the Sierra's with my German husband, new to America by 6 months, the bar was full of bikers.  One guy comes up to him and says:  Dude you Neil Young.  
    He of course in German accent says no.
     So, the biker dude tells my husband, ok, don't talk.  He starts telling people, that this is Neil Young.  They all want pictures with him, keep buying him drinks.  One of the best evenings we ever had.  His niece from Liverpool was with us.  
    Each of the bikers, as they were leaving would pay homage to Neil.  

    The rub is, that I always thought my husband looked like Mick Jagger.  


    Segue: bar story (none / 0) (#30)
    by oculus on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 01:33:11 AM EST
    We are at an old stage coach stop, not a steak house and pub, above Santa Barbara.  My then husband says Jane Fonda's husband is sitting at the bar.  Tom Hayden.  

    The one with the "blissed" wife? (none / 0) (#31)
    by Stellaaa on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 01:35:17 AM EST
    the wife that did not like Hillary making a mess of her bliss?

    Same fellow. (none / 0) (#32)
    by oculus on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 01:38:32 AM EST
    I wonder how she liked the joint appearance at Unity H.S. in Unity, NH?

    Well, as a blissed person (none / 0) (#34)
    by Stellaaa on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 01:45:20 AM EST
    myself, I could not cope, cause of all the smoke in the air from the fires up here in Northern California.  It is intense.  So, Hayden and his missus, are probably having some bliss time.

    The Governator is thinking of you. (none / 0) (#41)
    by oculus on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 02:12:49 AM EST
    I've been thinking (none / 0) (#80)
    by magisterludi on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 07:07:40 AM EST
    about you, too, Stellaa. How's Oakland?

    Me too, espec. after reading this (none / 0) (#108)
    by oculus on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 11:11:49 AM EST
    morning's AP article.  

    Oyee... (none / 0) (#113)
    by Stellaaa on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 11:25:15 AM EST
    the air quality really sucks and the look is gloomy and eerie.  Orange skies with a gray haze at sunrise and sunset.  In between, it's just dreary and no sun shining through.  Very "apres the holocaust film genre" look to it.  

    Are you following the expert's advice (none / 0) (#116)
    by oculus on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 11:32:22 AM EST
    and staying inside?  Sounds aweful.

    I am helping my Senior Citizen (none / 0) (#120)
    by Stellaaa on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 11:43:54 AM EST
    brother and sister in law fix up a house they had rented that got trashed to sell.  What a job.  
    My son is a YMCA summer camp counselor for kids and he is going nuts, the kids have to be locked in doors.  So many kids with asthma.  

    I saw Neil last Sept (none / 0) (#18)
    by nycstray on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 01:14:35 AM EST
    at Farm Aid, but didn't have it together enough (aka buried in work) to get to the Dec shows. He sounded great. It was quite a treat :)

    Thanks for the show review (and memory lane!). Dang, sounds like it was fantastic. {jealous}


    "Don't forget about August... (none / 0) (#105)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 10:34:46 AM EST
    ...let's put Obama in the White House"

    --Graham Nash at Thursday's Denver concert


    They all played for an FSU Homecoming back in the (none / 0) (#5)
    by Amiss on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 12:22:55 AM EST
    60's, was awesome. Young has always been a favorite of mine. I am sure you had a wonderful time!

    If you can't be with the one you love (Hillary) (none / 0) (#7)
    by MyLeftMind on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 12:38:50 AM EST
    work with the one you're with (Obama).

    Finian's Rainbow said it similarly (none / 0) (#9)
    by Cream City on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 12:45:43 AM EST
    . . . "if I'm not with the one I love, I'm lovin' the one I'm with -- for Sharon, I'm carin', but Susan, I'm choosin'. . . ."

    I always wonder if that song inspired the one by CSNY.


    Finian's Rainbow. Not a great (none / 0) (#19)
    by oculus on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 01:17:20 AM EST
    musical but a hit at my high school.

    Awwww (none / 0) (#17)
    by squeaky on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 01:04:53 AM EST
    Sounds like a real heart event. The real thing. Thanks for sharing it with us....

    If only Eric Clapton could sing. (none / 0) (#20)
    by oculus on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 01:17:57 AM EST

    What?!? (none / 0) (#106)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 10:42:23 AM EST
    I hope that is snark, otherwise I no choice but to think you've been in that California sun too long!

    Layla, Wonderful Tonight and many others still, to this day, bring a tear to my eye and a shiver down my spine.

    EC's voice is head and shoulders above NY--and I love Neil.


    As well as being a former Iowan, (none / 0) (#109)
    by oculus on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 11:13:39 AM EST
    I'm also a classical music snob; but I very much admire Clapton's playing.  Singing, not so much.

    Is this (none / 0) (#22)
    by Edgar08 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 01:24:52 AM EST
    An open thread?

    Yes (none / 0) (#23)
    by Alec82 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 01:26:15 AM EST
    This is an open thread.

     Jeralyn put it at the very bottom, but yes.


    Yes, per last line. (none / 0) (#24)
    by oculus on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 01:26:58 AM EST
    I see it now (none / 0) (#25)
    by Edgar08 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 01:27:47 AM EST

    We are waiting w/baited breath. (none / 0) (#33)
    by oculus on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 01:39:35 AM EST
    This may be a classic among subthreads (none / 0) (#38)
    by Cream City on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 02:03:22 AM EST
    in open threads.  

    I do hope you exhaled by now.


    Waiting to exhale? (none / 0) (#40)
    by oculus on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 02:11:00 AM EST
    Cocktail is on TBS (none / 0) (#48)
    by Edgar08 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 02:38:36 AM EST
    Sorry it took so long.

    CSN (none / 0) (#67)
    by barbarajmay on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 03:54:02 AM EST
    Great story.  CSN is coming to Minneapolis in just two weeks.  I can hardly wait.

    Has anyone else seen (none / 0) (#90)
    by magisterludi on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 08:34:31 AM EST
    the Oxyclean infomercial guy hawking health insurance?

    It is absolutely Onionesque.

    If a man on a bicycle... (none / 0) (#103)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 10:02:02 AM EST
    ...going 45 mph hits a 500 pound black bear, who wins?


    Reminds me of one of my favorite fotos (none / 0) (#121)
    by Cream City on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 11:45:26 AM EST
    from the wonderful "UP": a dedicated Yooper deer hunter.

    Yooper joke:  Why are the lower Michiganders called trolls?  Because they live under the bridge.

    The Straits of Mackinac bridge, that is, which finally connected the Yoopers to the mainland only 50 years ago.  Of course, the Yooper jury is still out on whether that's a good thing.  They do get winter employment out of it, lining up to drive over for the lowlanders who take one look at more than five miles of bridge -- although it's hard to see the last few miles of it through the usual  blizzard weather from September to June. :-)

    Ah, but summer in the UP!  Where this country began -- with the French there even before the Brits came to a pebble out east called Plimoth Rock. . . .