On Board the Unity Train

The unity train took off today with Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama's joint appearance in New Hampshire.

Some Hillary supporters are on board. Others are not.

Your thoughts? Mine are simply this: I wasn't impressed by the joint appearance, but I'm voting for the Democratic nominee and since that's Barack Obama, I'm voting for him.

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    Boy What a difference a nomination makes. (5.00 / 14) (#1)
    by Saul on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 05:18:38 PM EST

    Obama during his campaign disliked the Clintons and emphasized that they represented the past and the old politics and that they represented with what was so wrong with Washington.  Now at Unity New Hampshire he greets Hilary like a long lost friend, kisses and hugs and unbelievable praise of her.  Now Obama needs Hilary and Bill and says how important they are to winning this election.

    You think if she is so valuable then why not pick her as your VP.  I say either pick her as your VP and your praise of Hilary are justified.  Or don't pick her for VP and keep your praises of Hilary but do not ask anything of Hilary and Bill and let's see how he does on his own.

    What a difference a nomination makes.

    If he sincerely thinks she is valuable (5.00 / 3) (#163)
    by dianem on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 07:10:16 PM EST
    ...then he will choose her as his VP. If he just wants her supporter's votes and money, then he will give lip service to respecting her then choose some nice, safe VP who won't challenge him.

    Goes back to obama says whatever to (4.78 / 19) (#47)
    by PssttCmere08 on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 05:56:42 PM EST
    get what he wants.  I don't think he gives two
    sh!ts about America, the Clintons or what America needs.  One thing he did say that made sense is that America needs the Clintons...no doubt!!  He needs them too, for now; when he perceives he doesn't need them any longer, he will toss them aside.  The unity train left the station without me...I want a dem in the WH, just not obama...still hoping Hillary will rise from the ashes left behind by obama....

    The first (5.00 / 7) (#85)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 06:25:56 PM EST
    thing I though when I saw that headline on yahoo was I guess Obama thinks America needs more racists? Does he not realize that the GOP has been taking notes on all that he has said for the last 6 months or more? Apparently not from my observation.

    Therein lies my foremost (1.00 / 1) (#186)
    by mrjerbub on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 07:19:28 PM EST
    oposition to him. I know the constitution says no more than 35 years of age and a natural born citizen, but I think the nominee should also, at least love this country. I don't know the Obama's personally and they may very well love this country as much as me. It's just that I can't find anywhere I can go and verify this. I'm a veteran, but that need not be a qualification. John McCain loves this country but he is wrong headed about how to fix it. That's why I see no other option than to just stay home. I live in a very blue state so it won't do any damage. (sigh)

    I thought it produced good pictures (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by andgarden on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 05:19:53 PM EST
    and got good coverage.

    But I will say this (5.00 / 13) (#6)
    by andgarden on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 05:29:08 PM EST
    it bothers me that Obama always comes across as a little lethargic and a little disorganized. I noticed at one point that he appeared to pull out a cheat card to get someone's name right. He needs to be more polished and more energetic than that. If his youth isn't used as a positive, it will become a negative.

    That's (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 06:30:00 PM EST
    why the stuff about McCain being doddering and old doesn't really seem to be playing.

    No deal for me as I frankly don't trust Obama (5.00 / 10) (#3)
    by athyrio on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 05:23:35 PM EST
    and his lack of experience to be a president. It has very little to do with Hillary. As far as who I will vote for, it probably won't be McCain either.....Maybe write in Hillary's name...

    It made me cringe when Obama said (5.00 / 14) (#5)
    by zfran on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 05:28:09 PM EST
    something like, and women can accomplish anything, even better than men, and in high heels. I thought it sounded demeaning. I know it's probably nitpicking, but it's disingenuous.

    I didn't hear that bit (5.00 / 3) (#19)
    by syrupcore on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 05:37:47 PM EST
    but I'm guessing he was quoting the old 2nd wave slogan "Everything that Fred Astaire did, Ginger Rogers did backwards, and in high heels."

    Yes, very dated (5.00 / 5) (#27)
    by Valhalla on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 05:42:20 PM EST
    Maybe he or his speechwriters thought it would appeal to the demographic supporting Clinton?

    Weird, as though he thinks the demo is stuck in the 1970s.  It hasn't gotten such a great reaction on other sites.  Maybe they should consult with one of her supporters next time.


    Valhalla....isn't he using some of JFK's (5.00 / 2) (#52)
    by PssttCmere08 on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 06:03:34 PM EST
    speechwriters?  That could explain the dated reference, which is true.  Funny how obama had nothing good to say about Hillary, but does now that he hopes she can throw 18 million votes his way.  He is, as always, shameless in his pandering.

    Maybe, except that high heels line (5.00 / 4) (#65)
    by Valhalla on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 06:13:47 PM EST
    was, I thought, Gloria Steinem's from the 70s (I could be mistaken).  I haven't heard her use it for almost 15 years, though.

    Next thing, he'll be talking about fish not needing bicycles.


    Some sources say Rogers said it (5.00 / 3) (#78)
    by Cream City on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 06:20:11 PM EST
    and others say that it was said about her 'way back in a 1932 cartoon.  But it was quoted again by Ann Richards as well as Steinem in the good ol' days of the modern women's movement.  Y'know, before it shattered all the barriers to a woman becoming president, per Obama.  (He really has to stop misquoting Clinton on that one.)

    Also from an Ann Richards convention speech (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by riddlerandy on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 06:24:30 PM EST
    Ted Sorensen (none / 0) (#208)
    by MKS on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 07:27:25 PM EST
    has said that Obama reminds him of JFK; Ted helped to draft the response to Khrushchev's second letter.

    Ted is nearly blind as result of a stroke....There was one isolated report that he had helped review once speech--but there is nothing to suggest that he is actively writing things for Obama.


    My beloved governor Ann Richards (5.00 / 6) (#86)
    by txpolitico67 on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 06:26:01 PM EST
    used that quote at the keynote speech in 1992.  She pulled it off flawlessly.

    Love you Governor Richards!!! A TRUE and real progressive!


    Yeh, and he misquoted Ginger Rogers (5.00 / 11) (#55)
    by Cream City on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 06:04:37 PM EST
    but then, the full quote would not have been apt.
    As it was about putting on a good dance routine --
    I said this on open thread, but this is more apt here -- it was a well-choreographed event . . .  but for the point that bothered me more, after  
    Obama acknowledged that Clinton had been attacked -- by some whose names remain unknown, apparently -- on the basis of sexism and misogyny to the extreme.  That was a start.  So was his acknowledgment that she handled the attacks well.

    But then, to demonstrate how she brushed off the attacks, he did that hip-hop "dirt on the shoulder" routine . . . and I could only think that oh, no, he di'nt go there again.  Does he not know that video has gone viral -- the one with his finger (or, debatably, two), the "dirt on the shoulder" and something on the shoe?  

    From what I've read, the security lockdown to keep out Clinton signs (a few got through) out of the area only accessible by -- wait for it -- an Obama bus! would indicate a campaign that is savvy in so many ways.  And yet, and yet, still the tone-deaf stuff.  Are there no savvy women, women savvy to such perceptions of him, high up on his staff yet?  (I.e., re the report a few months ago comparing gender ratios on candidates' staffs, a comparison in which Obama was well behind McCain and Clinton.)


    I thought Hillary was teh awesome! (5.00 / 6) (#8)
    by Joan in VA on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 05:29:34 PM EST
    He was pretty good. Controlled the ah's and um's. Afterwards, Andrea Mitchell said she was enthusiastic and he was eloquent. Which was pretty much the opposite of my opinion. I haven't watched MSNBC in weeks and today didn't make me want to start up again. I thought she was sincere and convincing.

    I heard that and thought the same thing (5.00 / 9) (#60)
    by Cream City on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 06:10:49 PM EST
    -- that if the media had been able to get past their biases and CDS and Obamalove, they would have heard exactly this Clinton 'way back in February, at least.  That's the Clinton we saw in my state then (what little we saw of her in that messed-up stage of the campaign) -- and that's the same Clinton I have seen for more than a decade, back to her visits to my state in the '90s.

    Maybe the media saw, and I didn't, a different Clinton in Iowa.  But from February on, it was not a new Hillary Clinton.  Of course, every analysis I read indicates that media made their decision in January and just couldn't wait to get rid of her as of Super Tuesday -- and thus were angry at her for not following their script since.


    Hasn't changed my mind (5.00 / 5) (#12)
    by Valhalla on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 05:31:50 PM EST
    But it was nice to see Hillary in front of a crowd.

    If I were someone who hadn't followed the primaries, I'd say they came across fairly well and were mildly convincing.

    The one thing about the link though, is that I thought the 'She rocks' part was the least convincing bit.  Obama said it very stiffly and as if he were having trouble getting the words out.  So I find that an odd bit to emphasize.

    The bit preceding the 'She rocks' part (or maybe just after it), where he says he and the country need the Clintons was much more convincing and said with much more apparent sincerity.

    "She Rocks" worked for me (5.00 / 5) (#29)
    by CoralGables on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 05:42:41 PM EST
    Reading  the text of the speeches takes away from that line. Seeing it live, the "She Rocks" was actually perfect as he was acknowledging someone in the crowd, letting them explain exactly what he was trying to say. It was a perfect way to accidentally hit the nail on the head where the prepared words weren't enough.

    Different take... (5.00 / 2) (#31)
    by lentinel on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 05:43:30 PM EST
    When Obama said that bit about the country needing the Clintons, Bill and Hillary, I thought it was completely unconvincing.

    What you said about "apparent" sincerity reminded me of a quote from George Burns, the actor and comedian.

    He said that, "The most important part of acting is sincerity. If you can fake that, you've got it made".


    Heck With The Train (5.00 / 2) (#13)
    by MO Blue on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 05:33:19 PM EST
    I'm still waiting for my Unity Pony.

    I have about the same (5.00 / 2) (#14)
    by bjorn on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 05:33:50 PM EST
    level of enthusiaism as Jeralyn.  Like her I am voting for Obama.

    Yep. Me too. Not very up (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by Jake Left on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 06:29:44 PM EST
    about it, but I'm gonna have to gut it up and vote for O.

    I do understand a bit of the people who refuse though. I'm reminded of the backlash from African Americans against Democrats who for years counted on the Black vote because they thought those voters had nowhere else to go. Didn't have to do anything for them, just count on their vote without any though. Then portions of the AA community started going republican because that kind of disrespect gets to you after a while. It hurt for a while, but it brought the party around a bit. Maybe some of those who still can't bring themselves to vote for Obama feel that the pain of having mccain would show the Democratic leadership that they should not take us lightly, should actually do the right thing.


    Enjoyed It (5.00 / 3) (#15)
    by CoralGables on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 05:34:24 PM EST
    I thought they both did a wonderful job. It was what I expected as both are strong Democrats, and that's what political opponents from the same party should do after the boxing gloves come off when the primary battle is over.

    In this case, quite unlike some I have seen in the past, the praise looked and felt genuine in both directions. Each had a prepared speech but each strayed when the situation called for it with some excellent off the cuff lines.

    I enjoyed watching and listening to both of them and it sounded like the crowd enjoyed both of them also.

    That crowd (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by txpolitico67 on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 06:14:24 PM EST
    were Obama supporters bussed in on Obama campaign busses.  Clinton supporters were not favored to be there.

    Totally staged.



    After a lot of gut-wrenching (5.00 / 4) (#17)
    by magisterludi on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 05:36:03 PM EST
    I have decided to vote for Obama. One reason- if he loses, Hillary will be blamed.

    I've just gotta believe Hillary at this point. If she's behind him...

    when he loses (5.00 / 4) (#102)
    by ccpup on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 06:36:57 PM EST
    there will be those who blame Hillary.  But remember that these are also people -- in the Senate and House -- who will have to work with both Hillary and Barack and if they find her easier to work with than they do him (which apparently is the case as he finds Senate work "boring" and is hardly there), Barack's sour grapes "it's her fault" aren't really going to stick.  It'll just look like a sore loser looking for someone else to blame which is not very attractive in a "leader".

    Hillary will knuckle down as she always does and try to stave off the worse affects of a McCain Presidency.  Barack will continue to complain to anyone who'll listen that it was "her fault" he lost (and not because he had lost the major demographics in the Primaries as well as the Swing States and did nothing to really earn their vote in the General) and not really do anything as Senator.

    After a while, the complainer just becomes a bore.  And the worker looks more and more like a Leader.


    No way. (5.00 / 6) (#154)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 07:06:07 PM EST
    Obama is responsible for losing or winning the election. Hillary won't be on the ticket. People can try to blame her but it is Obama's fault only.

    Not impressed (5.00 / 5) (#18)
    by lentinel on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 05:37:12 PM EST
    I was not impressed with this joint appearance either.

    I don't wish to be unkind, but Barack just comes off as a
    bulls--ter. Clinton looked uncomfortable. She's doing her duty.
    But she looks like she can't stand him.

    The above is subjective, obviously. Maybe there are people out there witnessing this performance and thinking that there is genuine affection and admiration between them.

    Personally, I'm glad that the video ended when it did.

    I normally get the same feeling (5.00 / 5) (#21)
    by syrupcore on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 05:39:41 PM EST
    But I thought their exchange while they were switching positions seemed pretty genuine.  Certainly more than a three to six word pleasantry.

    in that silly air kiss photo (5.00 / 2) (#26)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 05:42:08 PM EST
    Hillary looks like she is bracing for a fly shot.

    um . . . (5.00 / 2) (#77)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 06:19:55 PM EST
    FLU shot.

    Oops (5.00 / 1) (#148)
    by lentinel on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 07:02:48 PM EST
    Calling Dr. Freud.

    and I was hoping (5.00 / 1) (#192)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 07:20:58 PM EST
    no one would notice

    Nice (5.00 / 4) (#32)
    by squeaky on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 05:43:32 PM EST
    They are great together. I hope he picks her as Vice President. It would make me proud to be an american.

    it was tough to watch (5.00 / 3) (#50)
    by NJDem on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 06:03:10 PM EST
    but nice to see HRC.  I thought she came off far more presidential standing as he spoke, while he came off, well, not like a president.  

    I liked the part when HRC was speaking and they started chanting "Obama."  After it quieted down, they started chanting "Hillary" which actually sounded louder to me.  She was funny with part about not believing she's been in public service for four decades.    

    And the "high heels" remark was an add lib, and I don't think a good one--certainly not now.    

    I'd want Hillary on my team! (5.00 / 5) (#76)
    by kimsaw on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 06:19:38 PM EST
    I was impressed with Hillary's genuine determination to get Obama in the White House. Too bad she's a team player, I'd like her to start her own team. I thought Clinton's speech was on target today, perhaps a little long, but she made her points on unity and how important it is for the Dems to unite. She did her job and did it well. Obama and the Dems should be grateful that she took one for the team. As an independent I'm not following her lead, but I appreciate her effort.

    Obama's speech was a stump speech repackaged, with a lot of shouting. He has been better in his presentation, but overall I think he also did what was expected.  

    Obama hasn't earned my trust thus far and his missteps continue to dissuade me. The only way I would even consider voting for him is if she's on the ticket, and then I'd still have to think about it. I've encouraged a unity ticket in the past, I don't know if I do now. I just don't feel that Obama is really dependable on the issues. They may be on the same team but the one in the driver's seat has a learner's permit, I'm not too sure the road ahead isn't going to be just another detour.  

    and the "D" (5.00 / 6) (#80)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 06:21:51 PM EST
    will continue piddeling on our values because people keep saying that.
    hey, I have an idea.  lets let him lose and wait for a real "D".

    I'm staying in the station. (5.00 / 2) (#82)
    by davnee on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 06:23:21 PM EST
    Both trains I could board in November are going in the wrong direction.

    Unity (5.00 / 5) (#93)
    by mmc9431 on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 06:31:38 PM EST
    Has to come from policies that reflect the values of the Democratic Party, Not Hilary. I think most of her supporters would have rallied around him by now if he had given any Democrat reason to be proud of their party.

    unity (5.00 / 3) (#94)
    by ClareAK on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 06:31:41 PM EST
      I still cannot see Obama as any kind of leader.  He just doesn't come across as empassioned about any particular issue.  I know people love his rhetoric, but it seems thin to me because I don't pick up on any real passion.
      He just doesn't convince me, and I'm not sure he cares to.  He's got the vote of most Democrats so he doesn't need mine.  My state will most likely go for Obama but not with my vote.

    You're right. (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 06:38:03 PM EST
    I guess I had a deliberate mental block in that area. We might be dealing with that same issue in Nov.

    Still hoping Obama withdraws (5.00 / 4) (#125)
    by nellre on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 06:52:11 PM EST
    I can dream can't I?

    Nellre....I am hoping your dream comes (4.25 / 4) (#170)
    by PssttCmere08 on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 07:12:25 PM EST
    true....it is my dream too!

    You never know what can happen (none / 0) (#135)
    by Saul on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 06:57:37 PM EST
    on the way to a convention.  Some possible scandal or big gaffe that would make the delegates at the convention to change their minds.

    Didn't watch - Read the speech (5.00 / 4) (#126)
    by dianem on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 06:52:16 PM EST
    Not impressed. Standard campaign stump speech, not even particularly customized for the occasion. I take back what I said about him not talking about women's rights. I'm not going to credit the oft-repeated and rather ingratiating phrase about how his daughters will grow up knowing that they can do anything because Clinton ran. It's nonsense. But he has made a point of promoting equal pay. I had discounted that because I think that you can't enforce equal pay without major social changes, and it's a nice, safe, women's issue that can be taken up without fear of offending anybody.

    I don't understand the appeal. I've watched Obama speak and read his speeches, and I'm not impressed. The rhetoric is standard political stuff and the presentation is not as good as that I've seen from other politicians. He always seems a bit uncomfortable, stilted, as if he is amazed to be where he is. Or arrogant, as if he is preaching. He doesn't have the fire of Edwards, or Clark, or even Dean. No passion. It all seems calculated. But that must just be me, because he is considered a great speaker.

    OK (5.00 / 0) (#127)
    by anydemwilldo on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 06:52:41 PM EST
    Sure, what do you want?  I can apologize for dumb Obama supporters, if you like.  Politics clearly makes people crazy, but it seems to be getting better now.

    What else do you need to work with?  I'm serious here.  We (to the extent that I'm an "Obama supporter" anyway) are nice people.  I think you'd like us.  You used to, anyway.

    There's one thing (5.00 / 1) (#144)
    by pie on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 06:59:54 PM EST
    that will make me want to vote for him.

    Because I know he's never going to do the other, which is to act like a man in charge of the agenda.


    If they (5.00 / 5) (#140)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 06:59:33 PM EST
    would ask for forgiveness then maybe you would have a point. They just don't think that they do anything wrong.

    Something to note: The deanics killed Deans campaign and people voted en masse against McGovern because of his supporters among other things. Obama has never tried to get a grip on this stuff and has passively encouraged it by his own behavior.

    I have one positive thing to say (5.00 / 3) (#158)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 07:09:13 PM EST
    Hillary looked great.

    That shade of blue is definitely her color (5.00 / 1) (#189)
    by samanthasmom on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 07:19:35 PM EST
    Unity? (5.00 / 3) (#160)
    by Pat Johnson on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 07:09:36 PM EST
    Gee, I don't know, Jeralyn.   As an attorney I would think you would be a little concerned about his associations with the Chicago syndicate that the Boston Globe reported on today.   Shady stuff.

    May I suggest (5.00 / 5) (#161)
    by txpolitico67 on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 07:09:38 PM EST
    you add something than a personal attack to the discussion?  Point taken that you are succinct at pointing out irony.

    We get it.  

    Oh my. (5.00 / 2) (#162)
    by pie on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 07:10:01 PM EST
    If Clinton's legacy is to have spawned a group of democrat-hating non-voters, it will sink her with the party.

    So it's her fault that she appealed to enough people, who decided that she was the best candidate, to get that kind of following, despite her best efforts for Obama?

    You, little one, have just gotten a zero from me.

    How pathetic.

    I'm not talking "fault" (3.33 / 3) (#174)
    by anydemwilldo on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 07:13:04 PM EST
    It's not about culpability, it's about perception.  If Clinton is seen as not being able to control the PUMAs, it will hurt her.  It just will.

    People (Steve M, above, for one) in this very thread are arguing that they can't forgive the Obama campaign because of the behavior of his rude supporters.  This is just the flip side of that same coin.


    Control the PUMA's? (5.00 / 7) (#180)
    by pie on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 07:16:21 PM EST
    By hand signals, laser beams, or smoke signals?

    She didn't start the fire, my dear. And she's not fanning it.


    Really? (5.00 / 12) (#196)
    by Steve M on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 07:21:35 PM EST
    Your mistake lies in the assumption that politicians care about the same things that supporters like me care about.

    It's entirely possible that some Obama supporters will never forgive Hillary for "spawning" Democrats who won't support Obama.  However, if you think those Obama supporters are going to be the people who determine Hillary's future in the party, you simply don't have a clue.

    Among politicians, the fact that Hillary has some supporters who may not automatically pull the D lever in November is exactly why she has leverage.  They want those votes.  Regardless of how this election turns out, they will still want those votes.  Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun, but a committed base of supporters is the second-best source.


    I agree, (5.00 / 1) (#206)
    by pie on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 07:26:27 PM EST
    except that power grows out of a barrel of lawyers, guns, and money.

    Send in the clowns? (5.00 / 1) (#168)
    by pie on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 07:11:25 PM EST
    They're already here.

    Good grief.

    Yes, (5.00 / 0) (#176)
    by pie on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 07:14:29 PM EST
    and what I wrote is at least a plausible interpretation.

    You are entitled to your opinion.

    Y'all have been so correct about other stuff.


    I wonder (5.00 / 0) (#177)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 07:14:32 PM EST
    do you think you are persuading anyone by posting things like this?

    I'm not trying to persuade anyone of anything (none / 0) (#178)
    by nr22 on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 07:15:54 PM EST
    good (none / 0) (#200)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 07:23:41 PM EST
    Not on board (5.00 / 0) (#182)
    by Coldblue on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 07:17:05 PM EST
    I guess that makes me a bad democrat.

    LOL (5.00 / 2) (#203)
    by txpolitico67 on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 07:24:50 PM EST
    there are a lot of us out there "behaving badly"

    Paging Harriet Christian!


    bad dont cover it (5.00 / 0) (#204)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 07:25:07 PM EST
    you gotta read upthread dude.
    (before they disappear)

    I'm (5.00 / 1) (#198)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 07:22:55 PM EST
    with Jeralyn. I wasn't impressed even though I only saw a clip on the news. Hillary was talking about Obama taking the White House in Nov. but she didn't seen convinced that he could win. Or at least that's how it appeared to me.

    Shrug (5.00 / 4) (#199)
    by Steve M on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 07:23:22 PM EST
    What "forgiveness"?  I'm not talking about stuff people have said in the past.  I'm saying that every time I get to feeling good about Obama, some Obama supporter makes a comment about Hillary's racist campaign or what have you and upsets me all over again.  They insist on reminding me of the sort of person I am extremely disinclined to turn the party over to.

    CNN/MSNBC reviews (5.00 / 4) (#201)
    by waldenpond on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 07:24:00 PM EST
    Don't watch these, but I checked them out for this event:

    CNN Dobbs: very positive reviews, Rollings and Goodwin thought they looked great together and Obama can't do better than her right now.

    Crowley... they had a lot of alone time, like a first date, on plane together (Clinton's campaign plane), .5 of 1.5 hours on bus alone together, Obama camp got what it wanted, Clinton was pitch perfect, photos great.

    MSNBC Fineman: Obama camp does not want Clinton on ballet at convention, it's a waste of time and it is off message.. they do not want to recognize her as a separate movement, they looked good together, 40% of Clinton voters not with Obama and the crowd (does he actually mean Clinton supporters in the crowd?) was cheering for Hillary more than Obama and Clinton, Obama needs the money (Clinton needs Obama too for debt), now that Obama has decided to go public funding.. most of his money is big donors, he needs more and Clinton has the big money.  Fri conf call was about the donor meetings.. Clinton donor asked if they were now going to donate, the person is 'thinking about it' still.  This is going to go back and forth until they both get what they want.

    Personally, I am enjoying the fight over control and power.  I thought they did well together, but then the only way I would consider voting for Obama is if Clinton is on the ticket.

    Squeaky, (5.00 / 3) (#212)
    by pie on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 07:30:39 PM EST
    I've never been banned from any internet site.

    Learn some manners, little one.

    Should Be No Problem If That Is The Case (5.00 / 6) (#215)
    by MO Blue on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 07:35:38 PM EST
    The PUMA folks inhabit a space similar to that occupied by Joe Lieberman.

    The Democratic leadership loved and supported Lieberman even after he ran as an Independent and won by being the non-official Republican candidate. The Dems gave him a standing ovation, a couple of choice chairmanships and defended him in the media at every opportunity.

    Party loyalty is an one way street within the Democratic Party. The pols are loyal to the Incumbent Good Old Boys club and see no need for loyalty to Dem voters. OTOH they expect strict party loyalty from the voters regardless of what the pols do or don't do.

    No it did not go well of course it is your right (5.00 / 1) (#219)
    by Salt on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 07:47:47 PM EST
    but I just don't understand voting because a candidate is a Party member isn't that what the Republicans did and isn't that why 4,200 solders are dead and tens of thousands of innocent Iraqi's no a President competence, intelligence, ethics, experience, record, life experience, associates, their honor matters and then maybe Party.

    Talex: (5.00 / 3) (#221)
    by tek on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 09:04:19 PM EST
    just watched Bill Moyers' Journal.  All about the injuries in the poultry business and Bush has thrown inspections out the window so the corps have total immunity to mistreat workers.  Who put rules in place to keep these corporatists honest?  BILL CLINTON.  But, boy, we sure don't want that guy anywhere near the WH!  He'll do anything, say anything and, did I mention, he's slick as oil.  Yah, those Clintons, what a bust those 8 years were, no?

    I've been voting for whatever the (5.00 / 4) (#222)
    by Montague on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 09:31:18 PM EST
    Democratic Party threw at me for years.  It's reached the tipping point.  No more enabling.  If we just keep caving in, they'll keep producing candidates who will lose, but the people running the DNC and the members of the federal government won't ever have to worry about making the mortgage or having enough money to retire with decency and dignity.  At this point I honestly believe they don't really care about winning or about having a Democrat in the WH - they only care about keeping themselves in their own jobs or elected offices or in power.  Bob Shrum's a millionaire, and for what?  Never producing a winner.

    I'm onboard the Unity Bus ... (5.00 / 1) (#223)
    by Robot Porter on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 09:37:39 PM EST
    my seat is in the back, and the engine sounds a bit dodgy, but I'm riding ... for the time being.

    He needs her (5.00 / 2) (#225)
    by fctchekr on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 09:52:49 PM EST
    There is obviously a significant GAP, 25% of her supporters to vote for McCain, donors won't fork over cash; otherwise he wouldn't be extending himself to this degree: in other words the polls aren't telling it all; there's some very real problems ahead if he can't get her supporters onboard.

    The Lib Media is still trying to downplay a unity ticket; tonight CNN's Brown kept accentuating the HORRIBLE things Hillary said about Obama that are on tape, saying Republicans will play them till the voting booths open. I actually see only one rememdy for that! She HAS to be on the ticket.

    Obama hasn't changed my views from day 1 (5.00 / 1) (#226)
    by Yotin on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 09:54:04 PM EST
    My view of Obama hasn't changed a bit since day one. He's still inexperienced and he blew his opportunities to take firm stands and put meat to his message of new politics and unity.
    I'm obliged to take a closer look at McCain.
    My loyalty is first to my conscience before my party.

    i want to vote for a dem (5.00 / 1) (#230)
    by sancho on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 10:42:38 PM EST
    too but sometimes i am not sure what i think of as a dem exists. hillary impressed me very much as a candidate and this surprised me. i decided that if elected she would use her influence to try to get legislation through that helped the needy and the disenfranchised. i do not feel that way about obama. i dont really see what he would do other than saying he is not john mccain and then threatening hopeful dems like me that if i dont go with his compromise something worse will be put forward. this is not a rationale to get me to vote, no matter what "party" he says he is.

    I liked the unity shtick, and I hope it continues. (5.00 / 1) (#231)
    by WillBFair on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 11:04:36 PM EST
    But the media are still attacking the Clintons nonstop, and it's grossing me out. A sleaze on cnn said something about Bill being crazy or insane or some such thing for being angry about what was done to his wife during the primary. Well that's his wife, and there was plenty of horrible things done by the media and dnc and Obama, and his anger is justified. There' nothing crazy about it. That they go over the top in their attacks just shows how tightly controlled by their editors commercial writers are.

    They're trying a little too hard (5.00 / 1) (#232)
    by cygnus on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 11:28:23 PM EST
    The phoniness shines through. And Hillary would still make a far superior president. The contrast is not favorable to Obama.

    I just want to say thank you (5.00 / 1) (#236)
    by weltec2 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 05:53:07 AM EST
    to TalkLeft for being here so that I have a place to express my deep frustration.

    Hillary was wonderful in Unity, as I knew she would be. BO looked to me like he didn't really want to be there. Perhaps I was projecting my own desire that he wasn't there and that she was just thanking them for making her the nominee... but I don't think so. Hillary's genuine support for the Democratic Party came through very strongly.

    I will vote for Barack. For the first time in my sixty years I will vote for someone that I do not believe is the best candidate simply because the alternative is so much worse. The thought of a McCain presidency is just unbearable.

    I have a great deal of respect for McCain's service in the military. But I can also see that time and his wartime memories are wearing on the man. He is not even remotely the same man that he was in 2000. He is frequently bewildered and confuses the most simple facts that just eight years ago he would never have mistaken. We just simply cannot elect a president whose mind is so rapidly deteriorating.

    One problem is (4.90 / 11) (#143)
    by Valhalla on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 06:59:45 PM EST
    the supporters who are offensive keep turning up in various places (like TL) and starting it all over.  Usually just as I start to think my annoyance is abating.

    Even more annoying that the internet behavior, though, is the Dem pols in MSM smirking and telling me to get over it.  They are equally repulsive to the ones trying to paint me and others as just crabby sore losers.  It just reiterates for me that they don't get it, and beyond that, really don't care about addressing the concerns I have about Obama.  I mean really, when has calling someone a sore loser, even someone who IS a sore loser, ever brought them around?

    I'm not a PUMA, (5.00 / 1) (#149)
    by pie on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 07:02:57 PM EST
    But you can bet that I am not going to "get over it" unless...

    Hmmm. Just got an email from Hillary (5.00 / 1) (#150)
    by pie on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 07:04:28 PM EST
    about unity.

    I repeat, there's one way that most of us can be unified.


    Im tellin ya (5.00 / 1) (#169)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 07:11:50 PM EST
    it wont happen.  if it did I would be presented with a deep dilemma.  
    but I, like Nancy, am not worrying about it much.

    I like Obama fine (4.80 / 5) (#48)
    by Steve M on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 05:58:19 PM EST
    It's his supporters I find intolerable.

    Every time I get to feeling enthusiastic about his candidacy, one of his supporters comes around saying something to upset me again.  Sometimes it only takes minutes.

    if enough people vote for you (4.80 / 15) (#74)
    by ccpup on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 06:18:55 PM EST
    you deserve to win?  If that were the case, we'd be facing Hillary Clinton as our Nominee and not doing our best to make a General Election silk purse out of the DNC's sow's ear.

    We've never had a Nominee who lost all the Big Swing States in the Primary yet managed -- with a huge assist from the DNC -- to snag the Nod.  Never.  And it really is disgusting to a lot of people.

    I respect other people's choice to vote (D) because they feel it's what they must do.  But I don't feel that way.  I'm not voting for Barack Obama and I don't know anyone in my large, strongly Democratic circle (from ex-pats in Paris and London to long-time Dems in NYC and LA) who is either.

    They simply don't trust that he has the experience or the stamina to handle the challenges of the Oval Office.  Especially with the challenges the US will continue to face after * leaves.  Plus they distrust anyone who is ready to assassinate the character of a Dem President for "political gain" only to turn around and say "America needs the Clintons" as if nothing happened and he hasn't been knee-capping Hillary every chance he gets.  

    They -- and I -- are much happier voting for worthy downticket Dems and letting the DNC dig themselves out of their own damn hole with their Chosen One.

    But I'll be more than happy to donate time and a ton of money for Hillary's landslide win over President McCain in 2012.

    There it is: HiIlary in 2012 (1.50 / 2) (#188)
    by MKS on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 07:19:32 PM EST
    And the country be damned for the next four years....

    When I saw Hillary and Obama onstage together, I thought it was possible for her to be VP--but that is a pipedream...The Hillary supporters would do everything possible to undermine Obama to get Hillary elected....


    You give Hillary (5.00 / 8) (#213)
    by txpolitico67 on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 07:32:26 PM EST
    supporters WAYYY too much credit.  Being an HRC supporter, we couldn't even pull of a primary win (no thanks to the media and the DNC/RBC).

    Make no mistake, whatever the outcome of this GE will be will be either up to McCain or Obama.  It is their fight and their supporters are going to have to do the heavy lifting.  

    HRC supporters, those who will support Obama, as is their absolute right, will bear NO responsibility for his loss, as well as those who don't fall into the Unity mindset.  If I am running for office, and if I wanna win, if it's to be it's up to me.


    Sadly, No! (4.70 / 10) (#11)
    by koshembos on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 05:31:08 PM EST
    My threshold issue is hate mongering. Obama ran a campaign of hate and racism. The Republican hate of liberals found its equivalent Obama's hate of the Clintons, of blue collar workers and everyone no supporting him.

    There is no reason to believe that Obama will be any better than any of the awful Republican presidents we had for a while.


    Right on! (5.00 / 7) (#59)
    by txpolitico67 on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 06:08:29 PM EST
    Couldn't agree more.  Those right-wing talking points employed by Obama against Clinton made him no better than any radical right winger Republican.

    Totally uncool.


    His arrogance repulses me (4.56 / 16) (#34)
    by sarahfdavis on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 05:44:50 PM EST
    I had the same reaction to bush from the start. Trade the smirk for the grin, the cowboy swagger for the mr. cool trot, the fake twang for the fake preacher leader man, the conservative compassion for the unity schtick and you get the same kinda guy. Arrogance. Bullying. Entitlement. And a mean streak a mile wide. Just speaking for me.

    Don't be sorry (4.50 / 6) (#57)
    by txpolitico67 on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 06:07:08 PM EST
    be proud that your voting your conscience and not voting for Obama because he has a "D" by his name...for the sake of "unity".

    That line of thinking is what got the GOP in trouble.  Yeah Bush may have 'won', but look where it got their party.  If the D's are smart, they will take one for the team, and avoid another Jimmy Carter in Obama.

    I lived thru Carter.  NOT interested in having a do-over.

    I don't (5.00 / 4) (#122)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 06:51:21 PM EST
    understand why more people don't see the carter in Obama. It's pretty obvious to me and that's why I don't have any thing invested in winning in Nov. The long term affects of winning with Carter would be felt for literally decades.

    Thanks Squeaky (4.40 / 5) (#146)
    by txpolitico67 on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 07:02:16 PM EST
    for providing insight into the thinking of a typical Obama supporter.

    That certainly is change I can believe in.

    Carpal Tunnel (3.00 / 1) (#229)
    by CoralGables on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 10:30:40 PM EST
    It would sure be nice if those here that like to go into attack mode could remain civil so Jeralyn doesn't have to spend her Friday night getting carpal tunnel syndrome from repetitively hitting her delete key.

    Admittedly I am biased in that I liked both candidates from the start, so when my preferred candidate stepped down it wasn't as hard for me to go with the presumptive nominee. If you try hard enough you could pick apart both of their speeches today. I prefer to see them both in a positive light and go with exactly what Hillary would want and vote the DEM ballot from top to bottom. After the last eight years, it's needed.

    Welcome Hats to a Progressive Site (3.00 / 1) (#235)
    by CoralGables on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 01:39:40 AM EST
    Odd that someone's first ever post on a liberal site would sign off as McCain 2008, but I guess Republican trolls need a life too. There can't be much positive going on at the republican blogs with the prospect of campaigning in only ten of fifty states on the horizon and hanging on for dear life when it's only June.

    How many brownie points do you get per post? Hope you enjoyed seeing two candidates today where either one of them would win in November. The Unity is made up of the Independents that have become Dems, the Republicans that have become Independents, and all the rest in the Big Tent that will bring on a Democratic Landslide this November. Kick back and watch the tide of unity turn states blue. It's going to be a fun election year in the House, The Senate, and for President. Enjoy the show.

    i (2.66 / 3) (#4)
    by gorby on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 05:27:07 PM EST
    thought it was terrific appearance.

    and i dont think its accurate to say some HRC supporters are on board, while others aren't. the last poll taken had the not-on-board crowd at 25 percent, and that was as they exited the voting booth during the height of the campaign. i'm not aware of a more recent poll, but certain it's lower than even that.

    obama is beating mccain among latinos, beating him among women, leading in FL, OH, etc. So those not on board are insignificant, as far as i can tell

    the "not on board" people are small in number, and have no leader - HRC herself is pro-Obama now.

    No, recent polling shows (5.00 / 3) (#23)
    by Valhalla on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 05:40:18 PM EST
    the 25% number holding steady, with a high number of  uncommitteds, of the Clinton primary voters.

    In fact, the % saying they'd vote for McCain has been relatively steady for months, except there seemed to be a jump up to 40% around the end of the primaries, after the RBC shenanigans.  Sort of an anti-bump that has settled down.

    The McCain- and nonvoting groups do have leaders, and are taking advantage of the same netrootz/social networking as the DKos and other gangs have.  So they may not need a central authority figure type leader, if that's what you're talking about.

    Will they have an effect, and what might the scope be remains to be seen.

    I just know that there's no circumstance I can imagine that would make me vote for him.  It doesn't matter to me if I'm the only person on earth who feels that way, since I form my own opinions which are not dependent on what my internet demographic is saying on any particular day.


    I don't think that's correct (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by anydemwilldo on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 06:05:39 PM EST
    It's easy to cherry pick polls, so I won't say that such a poll doesn't exist somewhere "recently".  But the overwhelming majority of poll demographics over the last few weeks have very rapidly trended back to where you would expect them to be, even among what were previously considered "core" Clinton demographics.  Obama is winning women as a whole by a large margin, winning college-educated women specifically, losing suburban white women by a narrow margin, etc...

    He's losing rural whites, of course, but then democrats always lose that demographic.  I know lots of folks here think Hillary could have won those folks in the general.  I remain unconvinced, but regardless: Obama is winning more or less the same demographics that a generic democrat would be expected to.  There is no quantitative evidence for a significant "Hillary holdout" demographic.


    I'll echo the above (5.00 / 0) (#62)
    by Valhalla on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 06:11:38 PM EST
    evidence please.

    I think he can't be getting all the same demos as a generic Dem, since he's running considerably under the generic Dem in most polls.


    Actually, the latest poll isn't great. (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by dianem on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 06:03:37 PM EST
    This is the latest - hot off the presses (well, off Yahoo News, anyway).  23% of Clinton's Democratic supporter's plan on supporting McCain and another 16% are undecided.

    According to the methodology, the poll was taken between June 13 and June 23.


    omg (5.00 / 1) (#113)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 06:47:10 PM EST
    I just clicked on the link:

    Obama winning over former Clinton supporters

    WASHINGTON (AP) -- Barack Obama has won over more than half of Hillary Rodham Clinton's former supporters . . .

    more than half?
    boy, Nedra is scraping the bottom of the barrel for that good news, ay?


    Isn't that what he always had? (none / 0) (#120)
    by nycstray on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 06:50:47 PM EST
    They claim (none / 0) (#133)
    by pie on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 06:57:10 PM EST
    it's 53%.  At this stage in the campaign, I'd be worried.

    ABC/whoever the other was (none / 0) (#69)
    by nycstray on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 06:15:24 PM EST
    is basically the same. I think if the non-believers wanted, it would take them a quick sec to find out  ;)

    Perhaps outrage and disbelief is more fun though, lol!~


    Small in number huh? (5.00 / 7) (#54)
    by txpolitico67 on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 06:03:46 PM EST
    I have 27 immediate family members who were all Clinton supporters who are either sitting out or voting McCain.

    27 members of my family is not small to me.  Whoever you are, just check out some of these "small numbers" people are:  those PUMA sites and just say no deal people are numbering in the millions.

    If that's the tack you wanna take, so be it.  But that kind of attitude is what exemplifies this so called unity schtick that is forcibly being peddled.  It's being reported that the only people at this rally were Obama supporters on Obama busses.

    U call that unity?  I bet the numbers that you deem small will blow you away come November.

    I am not voting Obama.


    I was curious as to whether they would (none / 0) (#66)
    by PssttCmere08 on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 06:14:09 PM EST
    try to keep out Hillary supporters and fill the place with obama followers.  In fact, it was exactly what I expected would happen.  I swear it is deja vu....remember the bush meetings...only rethugs allowed...no dissent allowed....this time around, in so many instances, we are them....frightening!

    There were many Hillary supporters there. (5.00 / 2) (#87)
    by samanthasmom on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 06:26:10 PM EST
    The MSM has been interviewing them all afternoon. Fox, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, and even AL JAZEERA ENGLISH asked for an interview.

    Actually (5.00 / 0) (#97)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 06:34:44 PM EST
    according to the ap poll, Obama has only got half of Hillary's voters. Yes, 25% have gone to McCain but the rest are in the undecided/other category. Much of his support seems to be soft but it could end up sticking or not. The polls coming out after Labor Day will tell us whether there's a trend or a problem.

    Not my vote (1.00 / 0) (#84)
    by zridling on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 06:24:45 PM EST
    Just another campaign appearance. Hillary may forgive, but I won't forgive any nominee whose lack of experience is glaring.

    obama has defined himself through a lifetime of racism, sexism, outright lies about his biography, and having everything handed to him. We have suffered eight years of incompetence in the White House. Do we really need another eight just to prove the Dems can f* it up, too?

    looks like... (none / 0) (#37)
    by syrupcore on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 05:46:05 PM EST
    TPM readers seem to be showing hillary their respect today.

    forgot to mention... (none / 0) (#38)
    by syrupcore on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 05:47:22 PM EST
    note the number of recommendations as compared to other stories on the home page.

    Hmmm. (none / 0) (#108)
    by pie on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 06:40:58 PM EST
    Now that the sound is turned up, I'm not so impressed, but I'd like to hear the whole thing.

    I just can't imagine whom he can possibly choose for VP that matches her credentials.  Although I have mixed emotions about the ticket, especially the order of the ticket, I will not be happy otherwise.

    Obama is going to be the one (none / 0) (#119)
    by samanthasmom on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 06:50:41 PM EST
    who needs the "flu shot". (I agree that's how Hillary looked, btw.)

    My Thoughts? (none / 0) (#121)
    by bmc on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 06:50:47 PM EST
    I didn't watch it.

    I blew up my tv, threw away my paper, moved to the country, built me a home. Planted a little garden, eat a lot of peaches, try to find Jesus, on my own.

    With credit to John Prine, who really knows how to survive a Presidential campaign.

    My sister (none / 0) (#131)
    by txpolitico67 on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 06:55:53 PM EST
    who is probably the closest (in terms of friendship)relative I have in my family, along with my absolute #1 favorite aunt absolutely do NOT talk politics since they are like 2 of the very few in the family who support Obama.

    If it's a little tough for me with beloved family members, well strangers....ain't gunnuh happen. maximum politeness with minimal information/communication.

    No offense (5.00 / 0) (#137)
    by anydemwilldo on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 06:58:01 PM EST
    But that's kinda sad (and I mean that outside of politics).  They're your family.  You're supposed to be able to disagree with them.  You're really telling me that you couldn't hold a polite discussion about Obama with them?  Is the problem them or you?

    Oh we hold polite (5.00 / 2) (#171)
    by txpolitico67 on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 07:12:34 PM EST
    discussions, but it feels wierd to be at odds over something that really, in the grand scheme of things, is something we have not much control over (save our own vote).

    Luckily our Mom raised us in a super-civic minded atmosphere.  I remember growing up and politics was an important part of the dialogue.  I have relatives who were quite involved with campaigns leading from JFK to Speaker Jim Wright.

    Maybe it's our Latino blood that gets us going too when we talk politics.  Passion and all that jazz.  We certainly agree to disagree.  Maybe I didn't paint that good of a picture.


    Sad? Depends on the circumstance. (5.00 / 5) (#194)
    by huzzlewhat on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 07:21:31 PM EST
    My mother and I, who have talked politics together since I could talk, are decidedly not talking about politics this election. And it's not meanness or resentment, it's just... she's on the Obama train, big time. She finds him inspiring. We started to talk about it once, and I laid out a few of my objections and doubts, and it was all calm and reasonable, until halfway through the conversation, when she made a sad little sigh, and said that she has so few heroes...

    I couldn't take that away from her. No matter how strongly I saw the cracks in the pedestal, it just meant too much to her. So now whenever it comes up, I just change the subject. It's not worth it.

    Is that sad? I don't know. But I know that my mother means more to me than the election, so... there you go.


    The matching tie made it look like prom (none / 0) (#138)
    by davnee on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 06:58:11 PM EST
    That's what I thought about the show.

    Isn't this sweet. (none / 0) (#224)
    by MarkL on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 09:41:25 PM EST
    IcebergSlim---who lied about Clinton repeatedly, and went into the most over the top tirades of anyone at DK---is now all for unity.
    IBS syndrome

    If he wants my vote (none / 0) (#227)
    by magnetics on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 10:13:24 PM EST
    (and that of people like me) he will choose her as VP, even though second fiddle is not really a suitable role for her.

    Of course I would not vote for McCain for dogcatcher, but there's only one unity pony I will ride.

    I still will probably vote democratic down ticket, (none / 0) (#228)
    by massdem on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 10:18:15 PM EST
    and what choice do I have living in MA anyway, but I didn't support Obama in the primaries because I didn't feel he was in the U.S. Senate long enough to get the experience needed, and I don't think that's changed since then.  Plus, his total sellout (and I mean sellout in the literal sense) on public financing disgusted me. His views this week on gun control and death penalty also were a disappointment.  Does this man have any principles at all?  At this point I will vote for McCain, or if I can't bring myself to do that, I will vote for McKinney (if she's on the MA ballot), but not Obama.

    Not voting for McCain, no way, no how. (none / 0) (#233)
    by Radix on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 11:35:59 PM EST
    However, Obama still hasn't earned my vote. I can still be persuaded, he's not off to a good start though. We'll see.

    Unity (none / 0) (#234)
    by hats on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 11:42:06 PM EST
    Plenty of strutting and posturing for the cameras.  Politics and political parties make for strange bedfellows.  This discerning mind steadfastly remains unconvinced that the DNC's selected candidate can fill the shoes of POTUS; plainly for inexperience.  HRC is only diplomatically carrying on the role expected of her by the DNC.

    McCain 2008.  

    I am voting for McCain (none / 0) (#237)
    by Virginialass on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 07:59:50 AM EST
    I have read their economic plans in Fortune and I have come to the conclusion I am going to vote for McCain. I hope the Dems get more seats in congress and the Senate. I feel McCain will work with them and it will be balanced. I am a conservative Democrat. I used to be Republican but changed my party affiliation before Clinton's second term. Before that I voted for Reagan and Bush Senior. In the past I have voted both sides of the party. I only voted for Gore and Kerry because GWB has been the worst choice for President in the history of the US. I have a feeling Obama will tie with Carter for being one of the worsts behind Hoover, Buchanan, ect...

    I am not true blue so I really dont feel like I am betraying the party. I am really voting for the best canidate on the ballot

    I will vote in FL to defeat the anti-gay bill (none / 0) (#238)
    by Mark Woods on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 08:48:25 AM EST
    that would add an amendment to forbid same-sex marriage and all other civil unions, gay or straight.

    After that, I will vote for down ticket Dems, but definitely NOT for Obama UNLESS Hillary is VP.

    And as a FL voter I am leaning more each day toward voting for McCain, as my disgust with all things DNC grows and grows.

    The DNC does not own my vote (albeit only 1/2 in FL) and I am really turned off by the Democrats.

    Was the Unity event a charade? If Obama doesn't select Clinton to be his VP, then yes. We shall see . . .

    If you give your vote unconditionally ... (none / 0) (#239)
    by Caro on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 09:24:32 AM EST
    ... what incentive is there for Obama to do anything for progressive values?

    Carolyn Kay

    The whole... (none / 0) (#240)
    by dutchfox on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 09:24:54 AM EST
    "unity" thing was a PR joke. I am not persuaded at all. Too cute. What do they think, voters are taken in by this crap?