Late Night: Born in the USA

Between the capitulation on FISA and the revelations about the torture of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and others in the CIA's secret black hole prison in Poland, it's time to express a little outrage.

This is an open thread.

< The CIA's Black Torture Hole In Poland | China to Ban Lepers and AIDS Patients During Olympics >
  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft

  • Display: Sort:
    Maureen Dowd comes across as (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by athyrio on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 11:37:51 PM EST
    a woman hater.....She can be really vile....

    MoDo (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by Edgar08 on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 02:07:42 AM EST
    Is Patrick Bateman after sexual re-assignment surgery.

    I tune her in for a quick morning eyeroll ... (5.00 / 0) (#63)
    by Ellie on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 09:08:46 AM EST
    ... so the Daily Krugman displays more clearly on my screen.

    Are Men Irrelevant?

    Oh, tee hee, careful MoDo or they'll come after you.

    She's such a preening throwback, overplaying her allure for the limited audience of older men in her field and representing the gossipy "women's POV" of current events that would once have appeared in "The Women's Section" of dead tree media.


    She is paid to not be objective (5.00 / 4) (#3)
    by dianem on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 12:00:24 AM EST
    ...but she isn't paid to not be intelligent. She writes for the New York Times, not a tabloid, although I'll grant it's often difficult to tell the difference between the two nowadays.

    Where was the outrage for the way Dowd(y) (3.00 / 2) (#5)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 12:03:22 AM EST
    treated Hillary Clinton?  obama does come off as weak, I can't say about effete.

    He's not feminine (5.00 / 2) (#15)
    by dianem on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 12:29:33 AM EST
    I suppose you could use "effete" as a synonym for "elite", but I don't think that's a very good comment. Of course, I've never gotten Dowd anyway. She has always been a disappointment - I generally read columnists for insight, not shallow, juvenile commentary.

    I think he comes off weak (5.00 / 2) (#27)
    by Grace on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 01:26:30 AM EST
    too -- but weak as in spineless.  He appears to be afraid of taking a strong stand, and then actually standing by it, even if it isn't popular politically.  

    Effete is more about vitality and visible passion (5.00 / 0) (#80)
    by Ellie on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 11:46:18 AM EST
    ... aloof and aristocratic, etc. is how I've encountered (or used) it, though the word is often misused as a short-form for gayness.

    more party unity (in case you missed it) (5.00 / 3) (#4)
    by NJDem on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 12:02:37 AM EST

    Apparently some African American women at the Black Caucus meeting with Obama were not thrilled to be told to "get over it."  

    Oh, and I can't stand M. Dowd (who went to college and was close with Tim Russert, btw).  Her and Franik Rich have been a disgrace.  

    Obama is either absolutely tone-deaf (5.00 / 5) (#14)
    by Cream City on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 12:27:28 AM EST
    about what not to say to women -- ""get over it"?! -- or, with so many of his crappy comments about claws and periods and the like, he knows exactly the coded message that he sends.

    I can't figure out which it is for sure, of course.  But I'm sufficiently older and wiser now to know that, when so many such comments constitute a pattern, it's best not to give the benefit of the doubt.  I hope that he gets some help to get over this problem, as if he would continue to be so tone-deaf as president, it could cause a major faux pas.  


    get over it my a** (5.00 / 3) (#25)
    by nycstray on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 01:22:16 AM EST
    are you referring to this?

    Sen. Barack Obama's (D-Ill.) conciliatory tone turned sharp on Thursday when Rep. Diane Watson (D-Calif.) pressed him on how there needs to be healing in the Democratic Party.

    "Look, Diane," Obama said, according to a participant who attended the Congressional Black Caucus (CBC) meeting. "John McCain, if he's elected, is going to pick a Supreme Court that will roll back every gain women have made in the last 50 years."

    Seeming frustrated, Obama started talking more bluntly about why women should be supporting him over Sen. McCain (R-Ariz.), whatever their feelings about the divisive Democratic primary campaign.
    "He can be pretty direct," said the CBC source. "It was a pretty lively meeting."

    I'll get over it when he "gets it".


    More S.Ct. Armageddon (5.00 / 3) (#57)
    by Valhalla on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 08:01:57 AM EST
    'cuz women are too stupid to realize McCain's stand on the issues.

    How 'bout instead of sending out the women of the Black Caucus to frighten us with S.Ct. bogeymen, Obama stands up and affirmatively tells us how he's better?  How he's going to put a strongly pro-choice jurist on the bench?

    And I cannot believe he dragged that stupid Muslim thing out again.  How there needs to be 'healing on both sides.'

    At the end of the day it is all, all, all about him.  Ask not what he can do for you, kids!


    It is common (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by JavaCityPal on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 10:54:33 AM EST
    for him to begin his responses with "well, look" or "look,"

    That is so condescending!! I get the impression that he uses that opening when he's irritated with a person or group for not just taking what he gave them. He doesn't want to go deeper than he volunteered to go with his statement, or he feels questions are a way of challenging him. He is so bad at extemporaneous speaking/thinking that it is also a defensive response because he has no thoughts prepared to answer with.

    My jaw sets when someone uses "Look" on me. It indicates they are only going to give you this one last chance to understand what they are saying.


    Nevermind, I missed seeing (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by nycstray on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 01:26:26 AM EST
    the link in the original comment!

    OY. Me eyes are biting da dust.


    Ah, I wondered about your comment (5.00 / 3) (#32)
    by Cream City on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 01:51:56 AM EST
    above, missing that he actually said "get over it."

    Do I recall you saying that you're Irish?  So am I.  And as I recall, if it was you, we both have the ancestral tendency to not get over it.  Any of it.  As I point out to people who cross me, my people still are p*ssed at the d*mn Brits for events almost 800 years ago. :-)


    A Wee Bit Of The Irish Here Too (5.00 / 3) (#47)
    by MO Blue on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 05:53:25 AM EST
    Long memories of continued insults. Some of us definitely maintain a "rebel" soul and a knowledge that freedoms once lost are not easily regained.

    What does Obama stand for? (5.00 / 4) (#23)
    by Grace on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 01:14:35 AM EST
    Notice that he says
    "If women take a moment to realize that on every issue important to women, John McCain is not in their corner, that would help them get over it."  

    What does that mean?  Is he for or against Roe v. Wade?  What kind of judges does he plan to appoint to the Supreme Court?  Does he plan to make any decisions in his four years in office?  What would they be?  

    "Not John McCain" doesn't tell me anything about what Obama stands for.  

    For the record, I'm not John McCain either.  


    "You lost, get over it!" (5.00 / 5) (#46)
    by Fabian on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 05:50:43 AM EST
    Is the caustic jeer that the right wing used against the left when Bush was given the 2000 election.

    Tone deaf is right.  "Get over it." has the potential to raise hackles in any Democrat plus remind them of shady elections and dirty tricks.  


    This paragraph, which is rather (none / 0) (#20)
    by oculus on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 12:43:57 AM EST
    confusing, is from the second page of the linked material:

    Obama then said two sources at the meeting said that he'd held his tongue many times during the campaign against Clinton in the interest of party unity and sensitivity. Clinton and her allies had suggested he was a Muslim, had said he wasn't qualified to be president.

    That comment just got me more rankled ... (5.00 / 2) (#66)
    by Inky on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 09:33:25 AM EST
    Clinton and her allies had suggested he was a Muslim, had said he wasn't qualified to be president.

    Apparently Obama is referring to the Steve Kroft "60 Minutes" interview and the highly overblown "as far as I know" comment by Hillary as well as her commander-in-chief threshold comment. Perhaps he's even still clinging to the allegation that a Hillary staffer passed the photo of him in Muslim garb to Drudge.

    Whatever. Frankly, the fact that Obama still sees himself as the aggrieved party in all of this sickens me. It almost makes me look forward to the coming barage of 527 ads. I can feel the umbrage and shocked indignation already. Get me to a fainting couch now.


    Crying foul (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by Fabian on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 10:04:34 AM EST
    will not win over many right leaning folks.

    On one hand you have a man who served in the military and was held prisoner and tortured and doesn't talk about it, let alone say how unfair it all was.

    On the other hand, you a man who never served in the military who may claim that every slur and attack ad against him and his wife is an attack on every American and America itself.  (Okay, the rhetoric might not be that overblown.)

    Which one will Security Moms and Dads want in charge?  


    "She and Frank Rich" urg! (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by NJDem on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 12:08:13 AM EST
    I also think it's pretty clear that HRC won't be the VP (don't think she wanted it anyway).  I think that will re-open a lot of wounds for those former HRC supporters now supporting Obama who assumed there would be a unity ticket.  Sorry, but things won't be so neat and tidy this year...

    I expect there will be hell to pay down (5.00 / 3) (#8)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 12:14:26 AM EST
    the line.  

    Yep. My guess is that when (5.00 / 3) (#13)
    by FemB4dem on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 12:24:38 AM EST
    Obama announces a VP other than Hillary, he will drop in the polls.  All the folks I have talked to who are not into blogging, and don't pay all that much attention to politics, either still think Hillary will be the nominee, or are sure that she will be Obama's VP.  Once it becomes clear neither is true, watch for "undecided" and "other" to rise in the polls, and McCain to get a bump as well.

    A wall street/nbc poll from 6/9 found (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by zfran on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 10:32:54 AM EST
    that women demos had "shifted" up 19% for Obama. I really don't believe this poll and I, as one of the voters saying I will not vote Obama, have not shifted from my position.

    Sorry (5.00 / 6) (#10)
    by creeper on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 12:19:38 AM EST
    I'm fresh out of outrage.  I spent the last of it on the new Obama seal.  

    I'm just numb.  Carry on without me, please.

    I fully expect an ermine-lined cape (5.00 / 6) (#34)
    by Cream City on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 01:56:20 AM EST
    within weeks, at this rate.  The presumption, to put it the most kindly I can, of altering the presidential seal and putting a web address on it!  And "Vero Possumus"?  I really thought it was a joke.

    Reading that Obama really pulled this just made my jaw drop.  And I had not thought he could possibly surprise, make that dismay me any more, after the May 31 debacle exposing his corruption of the party.

    But now the presidential seal -- so, next, a kingly cape, I betcha.  It's going to be a long and appalling summer in politics. . . .


    Cream....now you are making me think of (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 02:45:22 PM EST
    James Brown and his entourage....lol

    Yes, we had it wrong all along (5.00 / 3) (#58)
    by Valhalla on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 08:03:34 AM EST
    not a pony at all!

    Don't worry, creeper -- this story ain't done yet (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by Ellie on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 09:34:15 AM EST
    This is going to be an interesting summer. I suggest making yourself as physically comfortable (and pain free) as possible and stocking up on fine comestibles.

    Pain-killers and a foam brick to throw at the toob also help.


    You can get (5.00 / 2) (#76)
    by camellia on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 11:06:03 AM EST
    little packages of cat-toy foam balls really cheap -- I am going to stockpile some for throwing at the telly.  Dual purpose too -- the cat will get more exercise.

    Good idea! (5.00 / 2) (#78)
    by nycstray on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 11:10:48 AM EST
    rolled up socks work also and the dog gets more exercise. I'm gonna have to alternate. I have lots of foam balls floating around. Much quieter on wood floors  ;)

    The Obama Presidential seal (5.00 / 3) (#11)
    by LatinoVoter on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 12:19:40 AM EST
    Have you seen this? Reminds me of when my little brother got his first Power Wheels and I made him a fake drivers license to complete the package and he thought it meant he could drive in the street.

    Snark from an LA Times blogger (5.00 / 3) (#24)
    by tree on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 01:20:30 AM EST
    (Republican) about Obama's "nifty seal":

    ...But Barack Obama's crowd has decided not to wait for any of the formalities like a presidential election, an inauguration or even a nomination, which he still hasn't actually officially won yet. Wasn't it Hillary Clinton who was so snidely accused of thinking her nomination was inevitable?

    Obama now has his own Great Seal already. And it is really, really big. It's big like the tires on those elevated pickups in the parking lot at NASCAR races where you look out the car window and see nothing but fist-sized lug nuts.

    Obama's new seal looks really presidential, which is probably a coincidence, don't you think? Obama's seal has an eagle just like the president's seal and he or she is holding arrows to signify war, which Obama was against before it even started.

    And it's got olive branches, which stand for peace, which we haven't really had since 9/11 but DailyKos promises will come as soon as we shoo out Bush and Cheney.

    The seal's also got a terrifically impressive motto in Latin -- "Vero Possumus" -- which means "The possum speaks truthily."  ...

    I love the latin translations in LA! (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by Grace on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 01:46:31 AM EST
    I liked the one someone posted on another thread here too:  "Truly a possum."  

    Possum..the other white meat. Heh. nt. (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by FlaDemFem on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 11:11:31 AM EST
    The seal, the b.s., the get over it.... (5.00 / 0) (#85)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 03:13:08 PM EST
    can't help thinking of the "Women Hater's Club" founded by The Lil Rascals...

    Late is not better than never (5.00 / 5) (#16)
    by Cream City on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 12:30:45 AM EST
    and it is unpardonable that the NY Times did not do a mid-course correction by the time that MoDo was up to a dozen of her crappy columns on Clinton -- and that wasn't even half of her total in the campaign.

    Of course, the public editor comes along now to be used by the NY Times to say that it did critique itself and found itself wanting, blah blah blah, but only after it participated in perverting the primary process.  Ochs would roll heads for this.

    Late (5.00 / 3) (#39)
    by Edgar08 on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 02:03:10 AM EST
    Is strategically timed in order to say "Who me??!!"

    Gov. Sibelius: (5.00 / 2) (#17)
    by oculus on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 12:33:11 AM EST
    While her remarks were meant to rally Democrats, part of her aim was to quiet discontent within the party. "There are still constituencies who are going to need a little time to embrace Sen. Obama's candidacy," she told reporters after the event, noting women in particular.

    Awww, I'm so glad that she understands (5.00 / 10) (#36)
    by Cream City on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 01:59:25 AM EST
    that I'm gonna need a little more time, too, to embrace corruption at the core of a party that violated not only its rules and bylaws but even its charter.  

    Once I get over that, I'll get back to Kitty on whether I'm ready to embrace her candidate.  


    'Sennnd mmmorrre brainnnns ...' [/zombie on phone] (5.00 / 4) (#60)
    by Ellie on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 08:32:04 AM EST
    "There are still constituencies who are going to need a little time to embrace Sen. Obama's candidacy," she told reporters after the event, noting women in particular.

    ... and in unison the women reporters ran out of the briefing to deliver this intel to the Giant Chick Brain that women everywhere use to find direction.


    Ya think? (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by camellia on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 11:06:59 AM EST
    I received my first Obama for America (5.00 / 6) (#18)
    by FemB4dem on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 12:35:28 AM EST
    money solicitation today.  The woman caller launched into her we need change mantra.  I stopped her and told her I tended to vote Dem, but wasn't so sure what the differences were between Obama and McCain, so why not choose the more experienced of the two.  She sputtered that McCain is just Bush and we need change.  I agreed we need change but said I didn't see how McCain was like Bush, could she tell me?  She couldn't, of course.  No specifics, nothing -- just the usual change crapola.  So I said well, if you can't even tell me why Obama is better than McCain, why should I give Obama money?  She said -- I kid you not -- we've been told to stay neutral.  Huh? Sounds like they've been running into a lot of angry Hillary voters and have been orderd not to argue with us, and have taken that to mean also not to argue why Obama is better than McCain.  Too funny.  Anyway, I ended the call by saying I guess I'd hold onto my money then.  Very funny.

    The call I got told me he was a (5.00 / 2) (#73)
    by zfran on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 10:38:37 AM EST
    Hillary supporter, now working for Obama and that he understood how I felt. He, however, couldn't tell me why I should vote for his now candidate and I told him to take me off the Obama rolls. When I was mailed-to solicited, I tore it up,  sent it back to them w/I am one of the 18 million, you cheated and I will never send money and will not vote Obama.

    They called here today (Sat) and wanted to speak (4.28 / 7) (#22)
    by Rhouse on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 12:58:44 AM EST
    to my wife.  It was fun, because I answered the phone with " Hello R+++ residence" and there was a about 5 seconds of silence as the person on the other end of the line asked someone what to do.  It seems that the fact that my spouse  still uses her last name hyphenated with mine, wasn't covered in the standard script.  Anyway, since she wasn't home, I made them promise to call back and talk to her, not telling them she'll probably want to ask how they feel about vote stealing.  

    I also had fun with a DCCC caller (4.50 / 6) (#28)
    by FemB4dem on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 01:30:50 AM EST
    today.  I told her that while I might change my mind and give them some money in the fall, for now I was far too busy doing what Rahm Emmanuel said to do, to even think about donating money -- you know, staying home and tending to my knitting.

    My mother had (5.00 / 5) (#55)
    by standingup on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 07:54:54 AM EST
    a call from one of the Democratic committees to help with state legislative races.  She told the woman she was unhappy with the Democratic party and not going to donate any more money to them.  The woman asked if it had anything to do with Hillary Clinton because she was hearing the same from a lot of people.  My mother confirmed it was with the way the party had treated her during the primaries.  

    Much to my mother's surprise, she discovered the woman calling was a big Obama supporter and spent the next 10 minutes arguing that Obama was the better candidate.  They went through all the  usual talking points, he's intelligent, change, the war vote, etc... the woman finally said "well at least he could pass the bar exam."  After that discussion the woman had the nerve to say she really needed to take her information for a donation because she had many calls to make.  Mom was dismayed that a solicitor would continue to insult Hillary after she explained her dissatisfaction with Hillary's treatment and then still expect a donation.


    Bad solicitor technique. (5.00 / 5) (#65)
    by Fabian on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 09:21:15 AM EST
    A) Going off script isn't a bad thing if you are building rapport with the callee.  Arguing isn't a good way to create positive feelings.

    B) If your job is to get donations or people's personal information to put on a contact list, don't waste time arguing.  The script is your friend.  (BTW - I'll tell you "no." twice and hang up because I know your script gives you six ways to get me to say "yes.".)

    C) Always end on a positive note, even if you don't feel it.  This isn't about you, it's about the organization you represent.


    I received a letter from obama asking for (none / 0) (#84)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 02:49:32 PM EST
    money...I wrote Hillary for President across the top and regarding the journey he wanted us to take together...said: "the only journey I will take with you is to chaperone you back to Chicago."  And on the return envelope where it said obama for america...I changed it to obama for thievery.  I am tired of his nonsense.

    What a week. (5.00 / 9) (#21)
    by OrangeFur on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 12:47:59 AM EST
    So, let's review what happened this week.

    1. The House passed a big Iraq war spending bill with no strings attached, with the assumption that the Senate will follow.

    2. Democrats agreed to surrender on telecom immunity; the House passes the "compromise" bill over the loud objections of the ACLU and other civil liberties groups. The Democratic presumptive nominee signals that he supports the compromise.

    3. The Democratic presumptive nominee announces that he will be the first candidate to opt out of the post-Watergate public financing system, in a move that earns immediate criticism from Democracy 21, Common Cause, Sen. Feingold, and many, many editorial boards that have generally been sympathetic to him.

    4. In good news, a major triumph for equality and fairness occurs in California, where gay couples are allowed to marry after a state Supreme Court ruling. National Democrats are conspicuously silent on the matter and do not take advantage of this transcendental moment to push the cause of marriage equality nationally.

    Well, at least the other party is worse. That should cheer us up.

    Re: the public financing issue -- have you (5.00 / 4) (#35)
    by FemB4dem on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 01:58:39 AM EST
    seen the YouTube of Shields and Brooks ripping Obama for his "flip-flop of epic proportions?"


    My favorite part is Shields saying that Obama's "explanatory" video is awful, and that he looks like someone is holding a hostage to make him keep talking.


    Shields just wrote a column about that... (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by Dawn Davenport on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 03:47:21 AM EST
    ...called Barack, We Hardly Knew You!

    Obama did not "aggressively pursue" any agreement. He did not sit down with John McCain.

    He did not do what he told us he would do. He may very well win the White House. But even if he does, Barack Obama will still be just one more politician who broke his word.

    Too bad (5.00 / 0) (#29)
    by Edgar08 on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 01:46:24 AM EST
    The boss got himself duped by axelfraud as well.

    That was a sad day for me (none / 0) (#50)
    by ruffian on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 06:31:46 AM EST
    The only part of this nomination I have "gotten over" though.

    I took a different view of Heileman's article (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by Edgar08 on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 01:59:59 AM EST
    When I saw it was printed in NY mag, a studiously driven fountain of abject HATE.

    "She was the most beautiful defeated woman ever,".............. the man wrote.

    Well now. (5.00 / 4) (#42)
    by phat on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 02:16:05 AM EST
    Somehow I got elected as an alternate delegate for Clinton today.

    I'm actually pretty excited about this.

    Is there going to be a Talkleft get together?

    This should be very interesting.

    Old Jim M. (5.00 / 6) (#43)
    by Jackson Hunter on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 03:38:14 AM EST
    said it best:

    "When all else fails we can whip the horse's eyes, and make them scream, and cry."

    This quote came to mind as I pondered how the Unity Pony has pretty much already expired and Obama and his fanboys just keep whipping it futilely, realizing they are only halfway across the desert.

    I'm done being whipped.  They pooped the bed, now let them sleep in it.

    And yeah, I would say Dowd is just a joke, but that would be an insult to the concept of humor.  Truly, she's worth less than 99% of what I flush.


    The 110th Congress is (5.00 / 6) (#45)
    by Edger on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 04:16:50 AM EST
    the legislative branch...

    ...of the bush administration.

    At this point (5.00 / 3) (#48)
    by magisterludi on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 06:20:42 AM EST
    I'm outraged at the global instability America has spawned. Everything for profit and personal gain, damn the unraveling of civil society-it's one's own fault for not getting with the program of excessive risk, commodity speculation, and ponzi scheming our government calls the market-driven economy (sub-prime borrowers are only as good as their zealous loan providers, after all).

    The only thing America sells these days are War and the machines of war. Notice how no one- and I mean no one of political standing- talks about dicing up our notoriously bloated defense budget. Cut the people off at the knees with rising inflation and healthcare costs, but keep that symbol of our rapidly disintegrating super-power status well greased and maybe the world won't notice how unfettered capitalism is destroying our society.

    I am waiting for the day that someone with some clout stands up and says that if we need to cut the budget, the first one to go under the knife should be the DoD. Of course, the bedwetters will go wild, but that conversation is coming, as we are rapidly losing the illusion that our military has been a force of good in the last 50 years.

    I admire your optimism (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by mmc9431 on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 07:42:47 AM EST
    I wish I could share it. With the magic word "terrorists" Congress was willing to scrap the Constitution and the American public went along with it. By continuing to play on people's fears, I think they will be able to continue this insane policy for decades. (Just as they used the "Red" scare for over 50 years).

    I did have hopes that after the clapse of the USSR, there could be an era of enlightenment. Instead we had to find a new boogey man to latch on to. There's too much money and power to be gained with war for them to ever let up.


    I didn't say (none / 0) (#56)
    by magisterludi on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 07:57:32 AM EST
    I was optimistic. The topic of slashing the DoD is verboten for pols, but not the people. Unfortunately, we have been taught from birth to accept the shadowy workings of the MIC- very carefully taught.

    Regardless, the "because this is embedded in our culture, so why try and change it?" mentality is what got us into this gawdawful mess. This should be the stuff of social revolution.


    Yeah, right. (none / 0) (#49)
    by Fabian on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 06:25:47 AM EST
    I suppose the megacorps are on the side of the angels, right?

    The megacorps (none / 0) (#52)
    by magisterludi on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 07:34:00 AM EST
    rule the DoD.

    I've been stocked up (5.00 / 3) (#53)
    by magisterludi on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 07:37:15 AM EST
    on pitchforks and torches for decades. Throw in some tar and feathers and I'm ready for the call. I believe the natives are getting mighty restless.

    The upside of pitchforks and torches is ... (5.00 / 2) (#64)
    by Ellie on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 09:19:53 AM EST
    ... if the mob's too small, you can always pitch a bonfire and have a party around it. Hmmm, maybe a third party ...

    Outrage. (5.00 / 6) (#59)
    by lentinel on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 08:18:06 AM EST
    Like others posting here, I can't feel like singing a song is going to achieve anything. It is a means of pacifying people. There isn't even much energy in it. Just songs of whimpering.

    I am angry.
    I am angry at the press for not reporting on the war, and blaming it on us - on our "disinterest". (Oh, I forgot, the NYTimes runs a special every 1000 American deaths. We can look forward to that.)

    I am especially angry at the democratic leadership for letting this nightmare continue. In my opinion, all of our lost civil liberties, the destruction of our economy, the castration of our media and the gutting of our constitution can be traced to the war in Iraq.

    We have a gutless nominee for the democrats.
    We have a fool as the nominee for the republicans.

    We have left wing bloggers proudly declaring "We nominated the Black guy". (OpenLeft)

    Whether it is fair or not, my anger is directed more to the press and the democrats at this stage. The betrayal by the press has been constant, but the democrats were given the reins two years ago and they have shown themselves to be in complete harmony with the fascist mindset of Bush and the republicans.

    The more Obama is given prominence, the more he hides.

    I am angry as hell.

    As my idol, Malcolm X once said, "It's time to stop singin' and start swingin'."

    Disgust (5.00 / 3) (#62)
    by mmc9431 on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 09:01:27 AM EST
    I think the thing that disgusts me the most about this election is that we had an opportunity to really reevaluate our national priorities. Over 70% of the country is dissatisfied with the direction. We have a candidate that ran on this change policy and yet in less than a month he (or his spokespeople) have already backed away from some of the most important issues of the election.

    Iraq:      Time tables are off the table
    UHC:       Will not happen (Blame Republican's)
    Iran:      The return to saber rattling
    FISA:      Total cave in

    Campaign Finance

    The country needs better than this and progressive community should have insisted on more.                    

    The Official Barack Obama guide to women (5.00 / 4) (#72)
    by Ellie on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 10:37:26 AM EST
    Apparently Obama's rise to power is inevitable and the victors write (and revise) history.

    As a practical effort more suitable than Rahm's suggestion of knitting we should helpfully tweak that emotively driven Ladies' Section of HIStory that honors Obama's own and Club Obama's world view of women.

    (1) Out of sheer spite, Anne Frank began keeping a creepy diary on the Nazis ...

    (2) Her old boyfriend watched in horror as she calmly disjointed a rabbit and, staring out from the screen with steady eyes, put the creature in a stewing pot and added herbs and garlic. It was then the man suddenly knew that his family would never be safe from the wrath of Julia Child ...

    (3) "No I will NOT 'take a moment to get over it,'" Joan of Arc hissed and spat in display of feminine pique as she marshalled her armies and went to liberate Orléans from British occupation.

    (4) With a heavy heart and in sad realization, Pierre Curie knew that his man-hating wife's hobby of puttering in the lab, her Nobel prize and leadership of the university were just cover for Dr. Marie Curie's evil scheme. That typical problematic old b!tch was looking for a way to give men ass cancer.

    I will to transmit to the Giant Chick Brain I mentioned in my earlier post (#60) so that better historians than myself can refine these and get to work on others.

    Signing off ... Agent Ellie.

    50 State Strategy (4.83 / 6) (#19)
    by mmc9431 on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 12:40:49 AM EST

    After the recent FISA disaster. I am having even more doubts about the Democratic Party's 50 state strategy. I know it sounds get and looks good on a map. But what good are more Democratic's that don't hold Democratic views? As the blue dogs grow in numbers our party continues to diminish. They are a one reason that cutting the funding in Iraq has never been an issue, Impeachmment was off the table, and now FISA. So in the end we have a majority but no principles.

    Has anyone examined the ex post facto (none / 0) (#9)
    by Newt on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 12:18:29 AM EST
    limitation to telecom immunity in the new FISA bill?

    Friday topic update (none / 0) (#81)
    by JavaCityPal on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 11:55:05 AM EST
    I received an interesting update to TChris' post on Friday re: Police Office in Scottsdale, AZ.

    It appears the Scottsdale police dept had received a prior complaint that they disregarded for "lack of evidence".

    Don't cops work in pairs? (none / 0) (#82)
    by nycstray on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 12:10:04 PM EST
    Or is that just a figment of my imagination?