FISA Thanks and Open Thread

I have two FISA thank yous to hand out.

The first is to Big Tent Democrat, who has been relentless in his opposition to the bill. I gave up on it long ago, believing there was no way around what happened today. I'm sorry my cynicism has proven true, and I'm appeciative that he keeps up the fight.

The second is to Colorado Congresswoman Diana DeGette who voted against the FISA bill and issued this statement. [More...]

“While H.R. 6304 is an improvement over our previous efforts, it still prevents the American public’s ability to hold telecommunications companies accountable for participating in the Federal Government's domestic warrantless surveillance program. Courts still have no real power to review the Administration's prior orders for surveillance activities. We may never learn the extent of the violations of Americans' privacy which may have occurred or companies which may have participated.

“Additionally, the strong protections against reverse targeting contained in prior House measures, which I supported, are absent from this bill. Reverse targeting, which refers to spying on Americans by targeting those abroad with whom they are believed to be communicating, opens a loophole for the Federal Government to violate the privacy of American citizens.”

Rep. DeGette also, by the way, voted against the most recent Iraq funding bill.

That's all I have on FISA for now, this is an open thread.

< Rethinking the Ohio Death Penalty | FISA Wasn't Broke, It Needs No Fix >
  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft

  • Display: Sort:
    It is nice to read statements like this and to (5.00 / 3) (#1)
    by PssttCmere08 on Fri Jun 20, 2008 at 11:34:17 PM EST
    know there are some who get it!!

    DeGette (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by gaf on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 12:47:06 AM EST
    Diana had endorsed Clinton!!!

    No surprise there....We need more DeGettes! (none / 0) (#68)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 11:18:18 AM EST
    I am in tears for this country. (5.00 / 3) (#2)
    by themomcat on Fri Jun 20, 2008 at 11:40:01 PM EST
    Jefferson would be too.

    I just emailed Hillary Clinton's senatorial (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by oculus on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 12:12:38 AM EST
    website requesting she speak out against the telecomm immunity provision in the FISA bill.  Hope she does.

    Honestly, what can she say (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by Stellaaa on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 12:28:48 AM EST
    or do, if she says something, they will accuse her of trying to take the limelight. If she says nothing, she will be a pansy.  I do hope she stands up.  

    There are a few strong Dem (none / 0) (#16)
    by oculus on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 12:41:27 AM EST
    Representatives speaking now against the FISA bill.  Not all were Clinton supporters, for example John Conyers of MI.  I don't see why Clinton can't also speak out.  What has she to lose?  Such a weaselly (sp) response from Sen. Obama.  I welcome Sen. Clinton speaking up to fill the void.  

    I do hope she becomes (none / 0) (#23)
    by Stellaaa on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 12:48:06 AM EST
    a strong voice of opposition.  We need that.  

    I suspect (none / 0) (#24)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 12:49:18 AM EST
    for the sake of "unity" she won't speak up.

    I'm hoping she is watching C-Span 2 (none / 0) (#30)
    by oculus on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 01:02:22 AM EST
    and is as incensed as I am.  

    I Doubt She Is Against It (none / 0) (#26)
    by squeaky on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 12:52:19 AM EST
    Because even though both her and Obama voted against the last one, both are on record as saying that the old FISA needs to be fixed.

    This seems to be the fix.


    Hasn't Clinton previously stated (none / 0) (#31)
    by oculus on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 01:03:54 AM EST
    she is against telecomm immunity?

    Yes (none / 0) (#33)
    by squeaky on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 01:09:00 AM EST
    Both of them said that they would support Dodd's filibuster.  

    She's still taking a salary as a Senator. (none / 0) (#61)
    by Ben Masel on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 08:06:29 AM EST
    Do the job, or give it up.

    I didn't realize... (none / 0) (#67)
    by sj on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 10:49:10 AM EST
    ...  that Obama had given up his salary...

    That makes it OK then.


    Great Job, BTD (5.00 / 0) (#8)
    by JavaCityPal on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 12:23:26 AM EST
    I'm happy to back up Jeralyn on giving you recognition!

    Real Props (5.00 / 2) (#13)
    by talex on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 12:32:47 AM EST
    should go to Glenn Greenwald who has literally led the fight against the illegal spying from day one when no one else was even talking about it. It is the topic that made Greenwald who he is today and there is no greater authority on the topic or no greater writer on the topic than he. He has had some great stuff on his blog about it in the last week or two.

    Since it's an Open Thread, I have a question (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by JavaCityPal on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 12:29:10 AM EST
    Have any of you ever seen the interview between David Frost and Benazir Bhutto shortly before she died?

    She gave the name of a man who she said murdered Osama bin Laden. I've long thought he was already dead, and with the GE soon to begin, I am going to get very irritated if he is brought up as a fear tactic for votes.

    just wanted to say thanks (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by Little Fish on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 12:30:54 AM EST
    I've been lurking forever it seems but never post. I just wanted to thank Jeralyn, BTD and TChris for a great blog. It kept me sane during the primaries and continues to do so.


    Welcome, little fish (none / 0) (#15)
    by JavaCityPal on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 12:36:36 AM EST
    Another Puget Sound area person? Where?

    thanks! (none / 0) (#17)
    by Little Fish on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 12:41:47 AM EST
    There's a lot of us PNWers here!  Represent!

    I grew up in West Seattle and live in Burien now.


    I called and thanked Inslee and McDermott (none / 0) (#3)
    by shoephone on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 12:07:22 AM EST
    I am depressed because I really and sincerely think our democracy is dead, dead, dead. I plan on flying my flag upside down on July 4th.

    Yes (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 12:08:42 AM EST
    Out of our 6 Democrats in Washington only 3 voted our way? Wow.

    Regarding those three capitulators (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by shoephone on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 12:17:49 AM EST
    they are following their own scripts to a "t".

    Dicks is Mr. Military/National Security.

    Smith is a "New Democrat" with no principles whatsoever who stinks up the place everytime he rises to speak.

    Baird is completely useless and doesn't know what he thinks about anything.

    Just my two pennies.


    /delurk (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by Little Fish on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 12:24:05 AM EST
    Smith is my rep. I'm quite displeased. :/



    Adams has gotten a lot of face time (none / 0) (#14)
    by JavaCityPal on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 12:33:36 AM EST
    on tv because of his Obama supporter status. His district is the south end, right? Renton area?

    yeah south! (none / 0) (#20)
    by Little Fish on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 12:44:38 AM EST
    Burien, DesMoines, Normandy Park etc. It could be worse.  I could live in Reicherts district ;)

    Oh you're so mean (none / 0) (#22)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 12:47:33 AM EST
    I'm in Reichert's district.  With any luck Darcy Burner will win next time.

    lol good luck with that ;) (none / 0) (#28)
    by Little Fish on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 12:56:18 AM EST
    Reichert guest lectured during one of my soc classes at the UW. He was like" a noun a verb and Green River Killer."

    HAH (none / 0) (#32)
    by JavaCityPal on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 01:07:04 AM EST
    He is the one who bungled that investigation. He interviewed the guy (Gary Ridgeway) and cleared him. That case wasn't solved until Reichert was off the case.

    I lived in his district when he was first elected, and again when Darcy tried to unseat him. She came very close. I hear she's trying again this fall...I may even send her some money to help her out.


    Darcy is running again (none / 0) (#34)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 01:10:44 AM EST
    I will likely vote for her.

    BTW:  Her husband is a Clinton delegate and she did not endorse.  (Her young son is, of course, an Obama supporter).


    I voted for her last time, but don't live (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by JavaCityPal on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 01:21:08 AM EST
    in that district anymore. I used to write to Reichert about those campaign fliers he would send under the pretense of "updates". Then, one Sunday evening Robert Mak confronted him about those expensive mailers going out with tax payer money!

    My grandson is a Clinton supporter. He's only 8 months, but we can tell :)


    He has the quals (none / 0) (#35)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 01:11:26 AM EST
    to run for president!

    2 things (none / 0) (#39)
    by hitchhiker on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 01:20:15 AM EST
    1.  Diana DeGette is my hero--because of FISA today and because she's so relentless on the subject of embryonic stem cell research. I met her when she came to campaign for Darcy Burner in 2006 and got to thank her personally for taking the lead on that one.

    2. TeresainSnow . . . I'm in Reichert's district too.  I like knowing that you're my neighbor.  :)

    Names from the past... (none / 0) (#25)
    by Stellaaa on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 12:49:52 AM EST
    went to grad school up at the U W.  Lived in Beacon Hill.  Man, we were renting a 5 bedroom house, with a view of the Olympics, paid 250 rent.  Wow.

    Good luck finding a tent space (none / 0) (#27)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 12:52:32 AM EST
    at that price!

    I know, (none / 0) (#29)
    by Stellaaa on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 12:57:03 AM EST
    the funniest thing was we got it at such a good price cause it was painted, pink and green inside, the whole house.  We agreed to repaint it.  When I think we could have bought that house for less than 50,000...wow.  

    In Reichert's district you'd (none / 0) (#62)
    by Ben Masel on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 08:08:29 AM EST
    have someone worth voting for.

    Oh, don't relurk! ;-) (none / 0) (#18)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 12:42:46 AM EST
    Mine is Reichert.  How lucky am I! ;-).

    They are the same 3 who were/are solid (5.00 / 0) (#7)
    by JavaCityPal on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 12:22:04 AM EST
    Clinton supporters, too!

    I was surprised by McDermott, but expected Inslee and Dicks to be solidly against it. Did you all see Inslee speak against it on the floor today? He was great!


    I refuse to watch (none / 0) (#19)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 12:43:37 AM EST
    anything on TV anymore, except for Dog Whisperer and Gardening with Ciscoe.

    I like Inslee.


    Ha! I usually pick (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by Grace on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 01:20:10 AM EST
    one reality show a season (right now it's "So You Think You Can Dance) and that's the only show I watch on a regular basis.  

    I am anxious for another "Amazing Race" to start though.  I think that's my very favorite TV show just because I enjoy seeing all the locations they go to.  


    I went to pick up my daughter & son-in-law (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by JavaCityPal on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 01:26:12 AM EST
    at the airport one Saturday morning. My son-in-law could barely speak he was so thrilled. One of the couples and the camera crew with them was on the train with them at SeaTac.

    It's their favorite show, too.


    If I had to pick a "semi-dream" job (none / 0) (#47)
    by Grace on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 03:17:27 AM EST
    it would be doing the advance work for laying out the race on "Amazing Race."  They must have a team that figures out the locations and the tasks for each race and I can only imagine that must be a fun job.  (Or maybe "kinda" fun since they do some things I wouldn't want to have to try out.)  

    I once met a stunt man who worked on "Fear Factor."  He told me that they pick a few people from the crew to try out each task to make sure an average person can do whatever it is before they ask the contestants to do it.

    If "Fear Factor" does that, you know the rest of the shows do too -- so I'd like to be on the "Amazing Race" planning team.  ;-)  


    I like Inslee, too (none / 0) (#37)
    by JavaCityPal on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 01:16:51 AM EST
    I spent over 20 years in Bellevue with Jennifer Dunn and Dave Reichert. My heart is on the eastside, so I'll do what I can to get Darcy Burner elected.

    Saw this on Yahoo and I was annoyed. (none / 0) (#43)
    by BarnBabe on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 01:28:03 AM EST
    Before the campaign really begins Obama is throwing in the race card. I hate that. I am not a racist and do not like being bullied just because I don't think Obama would make the best President. This seems to support that fact:
    Democratic presidential contender Barack Obama said on Friday he expects Republicans to highlight the fact that he is black as part of an effort to make voters afraid of him.

    "It is going to be very difficult for Republicans to run on their stewardship of the economy or their outstanding foreign policy," Obama told a fundraiser in Jacksonville, Florida. "We know what kind of campaign they're going to run. They're going to try to make you afraid"."They're going to try to make you afraid of me. He's young and inexperienced and he's got a funny name. And did I mention he's black?"

    He said he was also set for Republicans to say "he's got a feisty wife," in trying to attack his wife Michelle.

    This is the way he got the Harvard Review President. He brings attention to what people will say first and disarms them. In this case I think he is putting people on the defensive to try and prove him wrong. I do not like this tactic. I suggest he deals with the foreign policy and economy on his own ideas and merit.

    I don't think he realizes who he is up against (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by JavaCityPal on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 01:47:50 AM EST
    The Reublicans are not going to care if they are called racists. They are going to stay on message and point out his weaknesses around the clock.

    "Feisty" isn't the image or the word they will use.

    Obama gets votes and cash by playing the race card. Now that he's thrown it out there again, he is going to be able to say, "see, that's just what I told you they would do". And, it will point to the unspoken message they found between the lines because McCain is not a racist.


    Isn't this what he did with Clinton (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by nycstray on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 01:58:51 AM EST
    only it was about dishonesty etc?

    I take it you've seen Obama's new seal? (none / 0) (#46)
    by prittfumes on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 03:15:06 AM EST
    Vero Possumus LOL (none / 0) (#65)
    by laurie on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 08:45:44 AM EST
    The worst part of the whole thing (none / 0) (#49)
    by Grace on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 03:35:54 AM EST
    is that he seems to be thinking that he's running against ALL REPUBLICANS, not just John McCain.  

    Since he's only running against McCain, if I were McCain, I would feel extremely insulted by this tirade of his.  

    I thought he was supposed to (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by nycstray on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 03:49:24 AM EST
    be reaching out to Republicans? Or is it only the young ones and Republicans over a certain age he's against?

    Well... (none / 0) (#52)
    by Alec82 on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 04:36:26 AM EST
    ...I think I know why:

    I don't think I ever heard Nancy Pelosi answer why impeachment was off the table.

     They wanted to win as many seats as they could in 2006.  And then preserve power.  Politicians are largely the same.  Admittedly, the Democrats are not the fascist lite Republicans of recent years, but largely concerned with maintaining their own power and influence.  

     Silly me.  I hoped for the lowest common denominator of gridlock on a few key issues.

    Cheap entertainment! (none / 0) (#56)
    by Fabian on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 06:05:08 AM EST
    True Colors, Daily Kos style.

    Lines are being drawn.  Narratives are being established.  It's now: Obama is better than McCain.  Not: Obama is the most reliable, effective progressive advocate.

    Ay-yup.  Nothing like watching people suddenly realize the product is a lot different than the pitch.  Smoke and mirrors, fluff and nonsense.

    They'll learn, just as we've learned in elections past.

    Except... (none / 0) (#58)
    by Alec82 on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 06:15:24 AM EST
    ...it was always going to be the case, wasn't it?

     None of the leading candidates would have been any different than Obama.  He played the Bill Clinton angle.  He was a better politician than his competitors, in many ways.


    Campaigner, not politician. (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by Fabian on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 08:00:07 AM EST
    There's always a gap between the candidate and the campaign.  A candidate can be great at winning votes and miserable at actual administration.  Or they could be a solid, capable administrator and lack the sizzle and charisma that they need to sell themselves.

    I've always seen more sizzle than steak in Obama.  

    I'm beginning to think that people who blame The Voters have it wrong.  The Media loves a good story, a Rags To Riches story, The Underdog, The Scandal, Tabloid Trivia.  They love their sound bites.  They don't want to explain Issues to people - not exciting enough.  People might be outrage junkies, but the media are the ones who create the addiction and provide the fix.


    's why my support (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by Ben Masel on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 08:14:21 AM EST
    went from Feingold, to Gravel, to Dodd, to Gravel, and finally to Obama when he clinched in Wisconsin.

    Dream Ticket Filibuster (none / 0) (#69)
    by KeysDan on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 11:21:57 AM EST
    Senator Obama has caved, albeit with nimble caveats, but caved all the same. The "new and improved" FISA was orchestrated to gain political ground and to deny Republican charges of being soft on terrorism.  Mrs. Pelosi et al. have done their jobs; now Senator Reid, in the role of barking Chihuahua, is to provide a fig leaf for scared Democratic senators. I would extend congratulations for the euchre except this is no mere campaign problem  The bill legalizes the continued shredding of the constitution, gives amnesty to the communication giants, and, essentially, pardons the criminal acts of the administration and complicit Democrats.  The interest of the MSM is waning already. At this point, the nightmare can be turned around only with filibuster by the  senatorial dream ticket of Mr. Obama and Mrs. Clinton.  Mr. Obama can demonstrate his new kind of leadership and Mrs. Clinton can bring the intellectual heft.

    more party unity, see link (none / 0) (#70)
    by NJDem on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 12:10:11 PM EST

    Apparently some African American women at the Black Caucus meeting with Obama were not thrilled to be told to "get over it."  

    When is he, his camp and supporters going to realize those three words just harden our opposition?

    BTD's nothing if not relentless (none / 0) (#71)
    by desmoinesdem on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 06:00:52 PM EST
    Which is a good thing.

    I was encouraged to see that Rob Hubler, Democratic candidate running in Iowa's 5th CD, the most Republican one in the state (R+8), came out with a strong statement against the FISA bill:


    Martha Stewart (none / 0) (#72)
    by squeaky on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 06:21:59 PM EST
    Denied a visa to Britain because of perjury conviction:

    "We continue to oppose the entry to the UK of individuals where we believe their presence in the United Kingdom is not conducive to the public good or where they have been found guilty of serious criminal offenses abroad," he said.


    Wonder if this applies to Libby as well?