FDL Book Salon: Snitch with Author Ethan Brown

Snitch: Informants, Cooperators, and the Corruption of Justice. Come on over to the Firedoglake Book Salon where I'm moderating a live chat with author Ethan Brown. Ethan is taking questions and we're discussing the book.

If you'd like to stay here, you can use this as an open thread.

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    For sure. Go Hillary: (5.00 / 4) (#2)
    by oculus on Sun May 18, 2008 at 04:38:59 PM EST
    We look forward to celebrating the achievements of women by seeing the most successful female Presidential candidate in American history - Hillary Clinton - arrive in Denver as a leading contender for the Democratic nomination on Women's Equality Day in 2008.  That will be a historic day.

    No Quitting (5.00 / 4) (#3)
    by Athena on Sun May 18, 2008 at 04:45:17 PM EST
    No nominee legally exists before August in Denver.  Certainly the largest campaign effort for a female President should continue until Denver - the heroines of the suffrage movement who are honored on August 26 would have no less.

    They didn't quit - why should Hillary?


    I didn't know about this day. (none / 0) (#19)
    by Burned on Sun May 18, 2008 at 07:22:24 PM EST
    So there's one for Clinton on the 26th and one for Obama on the 28th.
    So much for my "I am woman" credentials.

    New DIary..Clinton won in WV w/Edwards voters (5.00 / 6) (#4)
    by p lukasiak on Sun May 18, 2008 at 05:19:13 PM EST
    I just posted a new diary, in which I examine the exit polls from Oklahoma and West Virginia.

    Despite his dropping out before super Tuesday, Edwards attracted over 10% of the vote in Oklahoma.  And in the categories where Edwards did best, Clinton cleaned up three months later in West Virginia.

    And although I didn't write about it, the whole "racism of the white working class" is a myth. In the categories most closely associated with working class voters (high school graduate, no college degree, and income below the state median) there was little change in Obama's support... Clinton gained support in those categories by appealling to edwards voters.

    The categories where Obama LOST support were the "creative class' demographics -- college and/or postgraduate study, and income above the state median -- Clinton picked up that support from Obama, plus some of the edwards support in those categories.

    so, if 'racism' was a factor in WV, it was the racist "creative class'.

    Anyway, here is a link to the diary

    How Clinton Won West Virginia by Appealing to Edwards Voters

    Did you see the Portland OR newspaper's (none / 0) (#5)
    by oculus on Sun May 18, 2008 at 05:23:57 PM EST
    label:  "tertiary-educated" voters.  !!!!!

    did you see the rally today for Obama? (none / 0) (#79)
    by thereyougo on Sun May 18, 2008 at 11:36:45 PM EST
    75,000 people there? incredible, did they bus from all over?

    I don't believe he's got that appeal.

    I don't believe his hype, sorry like I never beleived he's being funded by small 5, & 10$ donors.

    I don't see credible evidence. One day we'll know the truth about all this.


    Have you thought (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by samanthasmom on Sun May 18, 2008 at 05:37:56 PM EST
    about why the DNC chose the dates for this year's convention?  We've all heard about how little time there is between the convention and the GE. Why not set the date a few weeks sooner and give our candidate a little longer to campaign?  Could it be that August 28th, the night our candidate will accept the nomination is the 45th anniversary of Martin Luther King's "I Have a Dream" speech?  Coincidence or good planning?

    Well, it may be the anniversary of the (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by Anne on Sun May 18, 2008 at 07:21:12 PM EST
    I Have a Dream speech, but it is also MY birthday (I turned 10 on that day in 1963), and I prefer to think that this year, one of my birthday presents will be the nomination of the first woman to be the president of the United States.

    Why the heck not?


    From your keyboard (5.00 / 3) (#21)
    by samanthasmom on Sun May 18, 2008 at 07:23:55 PM EST
    to God's computer

    I'd go for coincidence (none / 0) (#22)
    by Burned on Sun May 18, 2008 at 07:24:13 PM EST
    over good planning. This time around anyway.

    I guess I'm cynical (none / 0) (#37)
    by samanthasmom on Sun May 18, 2008 at 07:45:53 PM EST
    I think that the "fix" has been in for Obama to be the nominee for a long time.  I think Howard Dean et.al. have a dramatic night planned for the convention.  I see a huge screen with MLK giving his fiery "I Have a Dream" speech to cheering Obama fans as whoever is going to introduce the nominee for the Democratic Party brings on Barack Obama.  The screams and tears will be shown close-up on every TV station going as this historic moment takes place. The balloons will fall, and Tim Russert will tear up and get tingles. It will be great TV.  And then the rest of the party will have to join the janitorial staff in cleaning up the mess that has been made. Although I continue to make GOTV calls for Hillary and donate to her campaign, I don't think that the only thing that has contributed to the bumpy playing field is CDS or sexism.  I think Dean, Brasile and others have been planning this for awhile.  Maybe since Obama's last convention speech.  I think Hillary got in the way of their plans.  But then what I do for a living breeds cynicism.

    I feel the same cynicism (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by Burned on Sun May 18, 2008 at 07:58:44 PM EST
    I just fight it because I'm supposed to.

    All the high-profile Dems. will (none / 0) (#39)
    by oculus on Sun May 18, 2008 at 07:49:09 PM EST
    be vying for the honor and attention in the spotlight as the introducer of our next great President, BARCK OBAMA.

    Reminds me of Jim Lehrer's extremely funny political novel about a midwestern Lt. Gov. who was tapped at the last min. to fill in for his state's Gov. doing the honors.


    Hardly (none / 0) (#46)
    by JavaCityPal on Sun May 18, 2008 at 08:01:12 PM EST
    The dates for the 2012 are probably already know, or at least narrowed down. They don't have a lot of dates to pick from.

    Sunday LOL... (5.00 / 3) (#7)
    by Jackson Hunter on Sun May 18, 2008 at 06:12:09 PM EST
    I'm not trying to bash, but I just have to point out the utter state of delusion at Big Orange.  The lead story right now is how Sen. Obama, with a whole 4 years of Federal experience, could find a good "balance" with Al Gore as his running mate!  Al Gore, a man with actual, um, what is that called, or yeah, EXPERIENCE is going to play second fiddle again?  Good Lord.  Well, maybe if Gore is lucky, Sen. Obama may deign to make him an offer so that Mr. Gore can find self-actualization from the almighty Guru of Hyde Park.

    When you're done laughing or crying at that, the next story (I think) is how Obama can win Mississippi!  Never mind that a war veteran like Kerry lost the state by 20 points (the author did mention that to his/her credit) in a relatively close election, Barack will maximize the AA vote!  I guess the Whites in Ms. won't be voting that day or something.  I do believe in the 50 state strategy, but you have to use your freaking head as well, and I can promise you that if we spent a 100,000,000 in Mississippi and had both our Presidential and Vice-Presidential candidates campaign exclusively there from Labor Day to Election Day, we'd still lose Mississippi by 10 points.

    Most of the "Netroots" guys and gals who have won in Red districts have been decidedly more moderate to conservative, people like Tester and Webb and the guy who just won in Ms. by running away from the Obama campaign.  (He put out an ad specifically rejecting Obama's support, he won in spite of Obama, not due to him.)  We can target specific districts and specific vulnerable incumbents with carefully chosen candidates, but it will be a long, long time before we can turn a state like Mississippi from Red to Blue, and a polarizing candidate like Sen. Obama will not convert that state overnight.  He'll be busy trying to shore up the states we should win, like Ma. and Mi.

    Hilary can win both Arkansas and Fla., while Barack's only hope in the South is Virginia, which is a forlorn hope IMHO.  I hope that I'm wrong, but we are in for a good old fashioned drubbing.

    Just my two little Lincolns.


    Oh, and WV. (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by Jackson Hunter on Sun May 18, 2008 at 06:15:39 PM EST
    Hilary wins WV as well, or at least makes it competitive.  D'oh, I'm a little slow today I guess.  :)



    nice recap on the Gr. Orange which I (none / 0) (#80)
    by thereyougo on Sun May 18, 2008 at 11:47:06 PM EST
    try not to go to except to laugh at them and sigh at the utter cluelessness of those people.

    I keep telling myself they're republicans, they're republicans wanna be democrats.


    I'm Sure That Gore Would Be Just Tickled Pink (5.00 / 4) (#9)
    by MO Blue on Sun May 18, 2008 at 06:22:47 PM EST
    to be VP for someone as totally, totally awesome as Obama. (bangs head on desk)

    Obama is now winning MS. O.K. Well if he can move the Great Lakes to Oregon and add 7 more states, I guess anything is possible.


    I know Gore better than I know Obama (none / 0) (#14)
    by Fabian on Sun May 18, 2008 at 07:09:20 PM EST
    of course, I've had a lot more opportunity to get to know Gore.  (speaking as public figures, not personally) I can confidently say that Obama would have to offer Gore an incredibly SWEET deal to convince him to give up his fight against Climate Crisis (new name) for four years.

    Not to mention what I think Gore's reaction would be if Obama offered him the VP slot.  "I'm really sorry.  Climate Crisis is too important and urgent to allow me to take time off.  I hope you find a great VP.  Bye.".

    Gore riding to the rescue is a fantasy.


    If you've never seen it (none / 0) (#20)
    by Fabian on Sun May 18, 2008 at 07:23:11 PM EST
    do take a look at the notes left by the people who signed the DraftGore petition.

    I sifted through about half of them way back when and the variety of people signing was just stunning.  Lifetime Republicans, Democrats, Independents.
    Voters, non voters and even unregistered nonvoters promising to show up at the polls for Gore.

    Gore would have had lousy coattails though.  One common comment was that people would vote for Gore, only Gore and no one else.  That's undeniably impressive for a man who hasn't really been active in politics for seven years.  Guy never campaigned, or created an exploratory committee and people turned out for him.  That's clout, that's gravitas, that's one hella reputation.

    So it's not all that surprising that others are always trying to cash in on that.


    I Was Probably One Of The Lesser Names (none / 0) (#75)
    by MO Blue on Sun May 18, 2008 at 10:33:11 PM EST
    on that list. There were two people I would have dropped everything and worked without pay for if they chosen to run. Gore was number one and Feingold was the other.

    While definitely not my first choice, Hillary would have make a fine president.


    She will win OH, WV, MI, KY, (none / 0) (#28)
    by AX10 on Sun May 18, 2008 at 07:31:17 PM EST
    and maybe TN.
    Hillary can compete for the moderates, conservatives, and working class vote.

    Lord, (5.00 / 3) (#38)
    by eleanora on Sun May 18, 2008 at 07:47:48 PM EST
    I can't even read the previous threads, too many derailed conversations. What I don't get is, do the newly registered Obama supporters think they're helping him with this behavior? Cause they're really, really not.

    They haven't received the e-mail (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by oculus on Sun May 18, 2008 at 07:51:34 PM EST
    requesting they BE NICE.

    Some have, but it's kind of creepy. (5.00 / 3) (#48)
    by eleanora on Sun May 18, 2008 at 08:05:00 PM EST
    Ran into a few last week who kept off-topic answering me, "I know how you feeeeeel about this, so sad it didn't work out for Clinton." They kept emphasizing healing and growth and how we'll all be a team together, "so we all win! :DDDD" All about how my "hurt feelings" were going to pass, but nothing about policy or giving basic respect to economic, social justice, and women's issues. Sigh.

    I guess that's an improvement over being called a racist white c**t helping Clinton do McCain's work just so he can murder little babies overseas, but not by much.


    Some of my female friends who (none / 0) (#49)
    by oculus on Sun May 18, 2008 at 08:10:10 PM EST
    younger than I am took a parenting class in which you told your screaming toddler you were listening.  Something about a "laminate," which was posted on the side of the refrig. for easy reference.  Perhaps that is what the Obama outreach committee issued the faithful.  

    You did not miss a thing. (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by Fabian on Sun May 18, 2008 at 07:55:48 PM EST
    I copped a serious attitude with April, partly because there was a bona fide troll out cr@pping all over the early AM open thread.

    Poor April was better than average because she really had nothing to say.  Not sure why she decided to come here unless it was her first time out of a prObama environment.  It was like someone who got interested in politics only because Obama caught her attention and knew nothing at all beyond "Obama is running to be the Dem nominee.".


    I figured it was her (5.00 / 2) (#45)
    by oculus on Sun May 18, 2008 at 07:59:30 PM EST
    assignment for today instead of phone calling or canvassing.  

    I would have loved (none / 0) (#53)
    by Fabian on Sun May 18, 2008 at 08:15:19 PM EST
    to get a call from her!

    Heh.  I'm just needlessly cruel sometimes.


    "Of all the blogs in all the towns in all the (5.00 / 4) (#54)
    by lilburro on Sun May 18, 2008 at 08:21:33 PM EST
    world, she walks into mine."

    love that line (none / 0) (#82)
    by Jeralyn on Mon May 19, 2008 at 03:03:51 AM EST
    I'm stealing it one day. soon.

    I'm flattered! (none / 0) (#84)
    by lilburro on Mon May 19, 2008 at 12:14:30 PM EST
    Such a great film.

    Heh (none / 0) (#65)
    by JavaCityPal on Sun May 18, 2008 at 09:02:23 PM EST
    that would be fun...get a call from one of them and just lead them on and on chatting about the favorite guy. Keep them on the phone as long as possible, then JUST KIDDING. Sure would cut down on how many calls they'd get done.

    Be totally annoying (none / 0) (#68)
    by Fabian on Sun May 18, 2008 at 09:12:19 PM EST
    Talk about Michelle, the kids, his mother - so sad she died, his dad - oh, what a tragedy!

    Talk about all the cruel, cruel things that Obama has suffered - the racism(endless topic!), Wright(I don't see the problem!).

    See if you can't get some choice quotes on Clinton - either one.

    Ted Kennedy - so glad he's okay, he's done sooo much.

    Even better, ask them about them and Obama and what got them interested, excited, and so forth.  People usually love to talk about themselves.

    I could be good for fifteen minutes easy.


    LOL (none / 0) (#71)
    by JavaCityPal on Sun May 18, 2008 at 09:34:02 PM EST
    Might even get some info on what they are planning next to harrass the Clinton camp.

    Lol, I saw some of that! (none / 0) (#55)
    by eleanora on Sun May 18, 2008 at 08:21:47 PM EST
    Sadly hilarious. She did seem to be sincere, but way below the standard of proper Obama supporters like BTD or Addison or others here, who argue factually for their guy while respecting other people's right to choose differently.

    I didn't see the sincerity (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by JavaCityPal on Sun May 18, 2008 at 09:39:48 PM EST
    She was doing the one-liner "poor me" insults and not really trying to engage in discussion.

    If she was sincere, she just needs to step back and read for a few days before she tries to present her views. The "in your face" give me an answer - NOW! style just doesn't make for a fun exchange.


    My whole attitude was (none / 0) (#57)
    by Fabian on Sun May 18, 2008 at 08:28:59 PM EST
    "Oh, geez, criminy.  It's another one!  Okay, can we just get this over with as quickly as possible?  Give us your name, rank, number and state your spiel, then you can trot off to report to your superiors."

    FL & MI (5.00 / 2) (#50)
    by CE415 on Sun May 18, 2008 at 08:11:48 PM EST
    Hillary's votes in FL and MI really do count. The DNC did not run those elections, the states printed the ballots, paid election workers and counted those ballots. The voters in both states legitimately signed in at the poling places, provided necessary ID, requested ballots, marked those ballots and presented the completed ballots to the election workers for counting. The DNC can do what they choose with the delegates, but the votes are still real by any measure and they do count

    She is now a past tense (5.00 / 3) (#60)
    by nycstray on Sun May 18, 2008 at 08:38:58 PM EST
    in Obama Nation:

    The Illinois senator praised Clinton, but spoke of her in the past tense in another sign that he has shifted focus past the primary season.

    "She has been a formidable candidate. She has been smart and tough and determined and she has worked as hard as she can," Obama told the crowd, speaking about the former first lady. "She has run an extraordinary campaign."

    And on to the the self- crowning . . .

    Obama planned to be in Iowa on Tuesday to celebrate in the state where he scored his first victory in January.

    "We thought it was a terrific way to kind of bring things full circle. We still have some contests left, but if Kentucky and Oregon go as we hope, then we think we will have a majority of pledged delegates at that point, and that's a pretty significant mark," he told reporters.

    I received notice my new camera lens is arriving much sooner than anticipated. I thought I would get it the first week in June and it would be great timing to take the edge off. That will be me and my new lens crawling around the Botanical Gardens on Wed erasing the image of arrogance from the prior evening. He really knows how to turn me off. Oh, lordy, the Obama Experience is tomorrow on GMA! {Gag!}

    Obama in Portland Oregon (none / 0) (#10)
    by Mrwirez on Sun May 18, 2008 at 06:48:28 PM EST
    set a record with 75,000 people. I HATE this guy, honestly

    Here's what it (5.00 / 2) (#11)
    by oculus on Sun May 18, 2008 at 06:59:14 PM EST
    is reported he told supporters last night in Portland:

    "BE NICE"


    Your should have included (5.00 / 4) (#15)
    by Fabian on Sun May 18, 2008 at 07:14:04 PM EST
    the full quote:

    "That means all of you have to be nice to Clinton supporters."

    "You have to"

    That's the way you talk to a child!  He could have at least say they are obligated to do it simply because it's the right thing to do, not because he needs them to do it to cover his posterior.

    Eh, principles - who needs them?  They are just so danged inconvenient!


    Can you tell I'm trying to (5.00 / 3) (#16)
    by oculus on Sun May 18, 2008 at 07:16:21 PM EST
    tempt BTD to post on this.  Obama really has a tin ear when it comes to talking to or about Clinton supporters.  

    Obama just has a tin ear. (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by Fabian on Sun May 18, 2008 at 07:26:22 PM EST
    Or the world's lousiest advisors.

    He does not seem to know how to reach out to people who didn't fall for him the first time around.   I have to wonder how much of the HHing narrative he knows of, or believes.  Sometimes it seems possible that he believes that there is no second choice, it's Obama or no one!


    He IS talking to children (none / 0) (#62)
    by JavaCityPal on Sun May 18, 2008 at 08:47:57 PM EST
    But, when Hillary is named the nominee at the convention, there will be no need to call for being nice. She doesn't promote, or tolerate, the kind of hate Obama seems to enjoy.

    I just can't imagine (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by Nadai on Sun May 18, 2008 at 07:20:06 PM EST
    why he didn't say this, oh, about two or three months ago when it might actually have helped.

    But in the spirit of Unity, I'm willing to suggest an orifice of his he can stick his 'nice' into for safekeeping.


    Now, now. I'm experimenting (5.00 / 2) (#23)
    by oculus on Sun May 18, 2008 at 07:24:30 PM EST
    imagining what Obama might have sd. at this particular moment.  Maybe, Hillary Clinton a candidate for the Dem. nomination.  The convention will be held in August.  I urge my supporters to respect Hillary Clinton and her supporters as we each strive to be the nominee,  Each of us, no matter which of us is the nominee, will work hard to defeat John McCain.  

    Not shabby. (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by Fabian on Sun May 18, 2008 at 07:33:02 PM EST
    I think you could turn up the Unity a bit more though.

    I'm great.  She's great.  And you all, YOU are great!  We will ALL need to be ready to take on John McCain when the nominee is decided.  Hillary has pledged her full support to the winner.  I now pledge my full support to the winner.  And I KNOW that you will all be ready to support the nominee as you have supported me, and we will defeat McCain and TAKE. BACK. THE. WHITE. HOUSE and make America GREAT once again!

    (I gave it a shot.)


    That's pretty good. How about (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by oculus on Sun May 18, 2008 at 07:36:12 PM EST
    visuals and background music?

    Gotta have the America flag (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by Fabian on Sun May 18, 2008 at 07:49:33 PM EST
    waving somewhere in there.

    Outside of that, I'm blank.  

    I cribbed a bit from Chick, the annoying racing car in Pixar's movie Cars

    "No, not me.  You rock!  And you know that!"
    As he thanks his adoring public.  In all honesty, he's really stuck on himself, he just knows that kind of patter sells.


    If he were capable (none / 0) (#29)
    by Nadai on Sun May 18, 2008 at 07:31:25 PM EST
    of speaking that decently, he wouldn't have to tell his supporters to be nice at this late date.  They've mimicked his disrespect and arrogance from the beginning.

    You know, I keep reading here Obama (none / 0) (#32)
    by oculus on Sun May 18, 2008 at 07:34:36 PM EST
    supporters booed when Edwards praised Clinton in Grand Rapids.  But, absolutely no mention of that occuring in the LA Times or NYT or AP coverage.  Interesting, no?  Yet Obama campaign was quite quick to condemn Hillary Clinton when Bob Johnson introduced her and she was not yet on stage.  

    WTF (none / 0) (#34)
    by Edgar08 on Sun May 18, 2008 at 07:41:14 PM EST
    Bob Johnson is working for the Obama campaign?

    Not THAT Bob Johnson. (none / 0) (#35)
    by oculus on Sun May 18, 2008 at 07:43:23 PM EST
    Remember the BTE megabucks Clinton supporter who introduced her in SC with something about "or whatever Obama was doing," which was interpreted as referring to his use of coke in Chicago as a young man.

    LOL (none / 0) (#36)
    by Edgar08 on Sun May 18, 2008 at 07:45:13 PM EST
    I see.

    And, Edwards (none / 0) (#63)
    by JavaCityPal on Sun May 18, 2008 at 08:50:20 PM EST
    didn't motion or ask for that to stop? He's not the man I thought he was. Though, his greatest asset has always been Elizabeth.

    Great (5.00 / 2) (#24)
    by Edgar08 on Sun May 18, 2008 at 07:24:37 PM EST
    He couldn't say they should be nice cause it was the right thing to do, he said they had to be now cause he can't win without them.

    He is deficient in every way that I think is important.

    He gives a good speech though, I hear.

    I guess that's not totally UNimportant.

    Bottom line is he wants them to change their behavior without telling his supporters their behavior was wrong from day 1.

    Well.  He will fail.  Because until he can say to his supporters that their behavior was wrong from day 1, he will never get the Clinton loyalist vote he needs.


    He gave a mini-speech but I don't (none / 0) (#25)
    by oculus on Sun May 18, 2008 at 07:26:13 PM EST
    think it was great.  

    If people are looking for suggestions (5.00 / 5) (#30)
    by Edgar08 on Sun May 18, 2008 at 07:32:28 PM EST
    He should go on Keith Olberman and say the following:

    Keith, I do see myself as a uniter, that's my goal, and you, Keith, you make that more difficult for me.  My pastor made that job more difficult for me, especially what he said about my colleague, Senator Clinton, and a great Democratic President.  All the bloggers on dailykos.com, they make that job more difficult for me.  With your blatant sexism you, Keith Olbermann, have made it more difficult for me to defeat McCain in the general election.  

    I hope he never says something like that cause I want him to lose.


    IF he is the one on the top of the ticket (none / 0) (#70)
    by JavaCityPal on Sun May 18, 2008 at 09:26:22 PM EST
    I want him to be forced to put Hillary in as VP, and then I want to see how Olbermann, Matthews, Abrams, Gregory, Campbell Brown, and all the other vile tongues of the MSM choke on having to say VP Clinton.

    If she gets the top, I'll never be an audience for their biased, vulgar broadcasting, anyway.


    Right (none / 0) (#27)
    by Burned on Sun May 18, 2008 at 07:30:36 PM EST
    He can't feign ignorance or being above the fray now.

    I just got mad at Obama all over again.


    BECAUSE he can't win without us.... (none / 0) (#12)
    by Mrwirez on Sun May 18, 2008 at 07:05:12 PM EST
    I vote McCain

    I'm not voting for McCain or (none / 0) (#13)
    by oculus on Sun May 18, 2008 at 07:06:29 PM EST
    not voting for President, but I don't think these are exactly the healing words we've all been waiting for, do you?

    I simply do not care (none / 0) (#47)
    by Mrwirez on Sun May 18, 2008 at 08:03:40 PM EST
    I hate the man

    You may end up on the do-not- (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by oculus on Sun May 18, 2008 at 08:11:52 PM EST
    fly list!

    Given the state of air travel (none / 0) (#59)
    by Fabian on Sun May 18, 2008 at 08:30:14 PM EST
    and the airlines, that might be a good thing.

    If they ever start screening Amtrak passengers, then I'll be hurting.


    Please note. Photo of Obama (none / 0) (#61)
    by oculus on Sun May 18, 2008 at 08:43:08 PM EST
    addressing that crowd on Huff Post.  He is wearing a BLUE shirt with the sleeves rolled up.  Is this pandering to blue collar workers?  

    I demand plaid! (none / 0) (#64)
    by Fabian on Sun May 18, 2008 at 08:56:43 PM EST
    If Gore could do it, Obama can!

    Portland doesn't get too (none / 0) (#66)
    by JavaCityPal on Sun May 18, 2008 at 09:05:06 PM EST
    many visitors they would consider "exciting", apparently.

    I'm no fan (none / 0) (#73)
    by ajain on Sun May 18, 2008 at 10:03:22 PM EST
    But you gotta give some credit. He can generate excitement like no one else.

    I watched some of the rally on CNN. It was pretty good. The Decemberists played for him (its the local Portland band) I still love Clinton and am desperately rooting for her, but you gotta give him credit for being able to generate such crazy enthusiasm.

    Btw, Portland is a city of roughly 75,000. So I dont think they were all Dem voters or all Obama supporters. Nonetheless, huge number.


    The Person Who Kidnapped Josh Marshall notes (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by ajain on Sun May 18, 2008 at 10:07:48 PM EST
    That the size of the crowd is roughly the number of people who voted for Obama in West Virginia.

    That is actually a pretty hilarious statistic.


    Portland Oregon (none / 0) (#76)
    by JavaCityPal on Sun May 18, 2008 at 10:47:41 PM EST
    Not Portland, Maine.

    Greater Portland metropolitan area has a population of over 2.1M

    I can think of dozens of people who can get a crowd going better than Obama.


    I read that on a blog (none / 0) (#77)
    by ajain on Sun May 18, 2008 at 11:12:18 PM EST
    I could most certainly be wrong. But I think I read it on the Washington Post website. But what you said sounds more believeable.

    Pretty recent numbers (none / 0) (#78)
    by JavaCityPal on Sun May 18, 2008 at 11:19:20 PM EST
    Population  568,380 (PSU Population Research center, 2007); 2.1 million in the Portland metropolitan area (U.S. Census, 2006)

    These are off the Portland official city web site. I've been there many times, and it's a large metropolitan city. 75,000 people wouldn't be a very big place.


    heh, bused in maybe? I wouldn't put it past him (none / 0) (#81)
    by thereyougo on Mon May 19, 2008 at 12:02:15 AM EST
    internet screed from a Republican (none / 0) (#43)
    by Molly Pitcher on Sun May 18, 2008 at 07:57:34 PM EST
    This paper was written by an unnamed 11 grade girl and read on the Frank Beckman radio show, WJR in Detroit, on May 15, 2008*.

    "Hillary Clinton is the Popabowa that plague(s) the United States of America. What is the popabowa one may ask? A popabowa is a one-eyed, demonic, massive, foul smelling bat that flies into open windows late at night, and slaughters citizens that reside in Zanzibar....the popabowa, like many other myths, does not exist.

    "The Opposition political party of Zanzibar created this legend to sway the inhabitants of the island to vote for their candidate, because if they do not, the popabowa may seize them. Most people probably find the gullibility of the Zanzibar people astonishing.

    "Nonetheless, the American government is not much different. Their establishment is endeavoring to get the people to vote for Barrack Obama....   Both Hillary Clinton and the popabowa are used to scare the people into voting for who the establishment wants.

    *No idea if this really happened--thought it amusing.

    Amusing? (none / 0) (#52)
    by JavaCityPal on Sun May 18, 2008 at 08:15:07 PM EST
    What did I miss?

    11 grade? That writing is more that of an 11 year old, and children should never be invited into this realm of thinking.

    What mentality thought it deserved radio time?


    Wait - Hillary scary? (none / 0) (#56)
    by Fabian on Sun May 18, 2008 at 08:25:32 PM EST
    To whom?   Bill embarrassed her in a big way - and he's still alive!  (And unharmed.  It's Bush who choked on a pretzel and appeared with mysterious scrapes and bruises.)

    And despite the whole "vengeful Clintons" narrative, I have yet to hear one verifiable story of someone who was canned or blacklisted because of either one.

    Maybe it's the Right's "Socialist Hillary"?  (health care reference)


    These sentences are what (none / 0) (#67)
    by Molly Pitcher on Sun May 18, 2008 at 09:06:52 PM EST
    I found interesting:

    "Their establishment is endeavoring to get the people to vote for Barrack Obama....   Both Hillary Clinton and the popabowa are used to scare the people into voting for who the establishment wants."

    Isn't that what they tried, demonizing Hillary to some extend--that evil---


    Closer (none / 0) (#69)
    by JavaCityPal on Sun May 18, 2008 at 09:21:04 PM EST
    This child author is in the US, right?

    I do see the parallel to how Obama has run his campaign, though.

    It is bothersome to have children used in these ugly efforts, I must say.


    That was probably a high (none / 0) (#83)
    by Molly Pitcher on Mon May 19, 2008 at 07:50:53 AM EST
    school essay.  The quote was sent to me by a rabid republican; I assume that the radio host takes a republican view too.  I think this is one of the early repub salvos against Obama, assuming Hillary is safely out of the picture.  I did think that the 'pushers' discussed were the DNC.

    First Woman US Governor, (none / 0) (#58)
    by eleanora on Sun May 18, 2008 at 08:29:30 PM EST
    Nellie Tayloe Ross of Wyoming, was elected on November 4, 1924. And our national election this year just happens to be on November 4th as well! I take that as a good omen  :)