Hillary, The Media And Trina Bachtel: Part III

By Big Tent Democrat

Speaking for me only

It appears that, via Digby, NBC's Andrea Mitchell has a credibility problem:

Mitchell: Well, it turns out it's not true. After reading about the story in the Washington Post, hospital officials demanded that the Clinton campaign stop using that anecdote. They say there is no indication that this woman was denied medical care, that in fact, she did have insurance.

It turns out the hospital and NBC have a credibility problem - the woman WAS denied medical services, but not by the hospital that chose to accuse itself:

At an earlier time . . . Bachtel lacked health insurance and ran up unpaid bills when treated at a clinic near her home in Middleport. When she returned for treatment when pregnant, the clinic demanded $100 per visit to help retire the outstanding debt, Casto said. Because Bachtel could not afford the fees and found it difficult to travel, her aunt said, she postponed receiving treatment.

NEVER believe the Media. Hopefully, "progressive" blogs will learn their lesson. Just so you know, Andrea Mitchell and Howard Fineman are on TV attacking Hillary's credibility while they have completely gotten the story wrong. The Media is a joke.

< More "Progressive" Blogger Sexism | Rezko Lawyer Gets His Shot at Government Star Witness >
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    Lesson? (5.00 / 2) (#1)
    by blogtopus on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 05:55:22 PM EST
    The lesson they're going to learn is to put more ambiguous weasel language in their posts. That way nobody can say they mentioned the 'L' word.

    There are an awful lot of dead messengers laying around the Progressosphere lately.

    BTW (5.00 / 8) (#2)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 05:56:11 PM EST
    Looking at the comments at daily kos, we see that that community is still prepared to say and do anything to express their hatred of Hillary Clinton. What a disgrace.

    Ack (5.00 / 2) (#9)
    by Lahdee on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 06:03:08 PM EST
    I was in denial all day (we're Democrats, we'll be okay. Rinse and repeat) and you ruin it with reality.
    I just wanna cuss.

    What can we (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by bjorn on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 06:06:54 PM EST
    do, if anything, to get the DailyKos people to tell the truth about this story?

    They do not want the truth (5.00 / 6) (#18)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 06:09:01 PM EST
    The daily kos community remain the most cancerous and despicable force in the "progressive" blogs.

    Wow (5.00 / 0) (#89)
    by Dr Molly on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 09:03:03 PM EST
    I just said this on another thread and got eviscerated for it.

    Do you understand why smart and truthful people like Meteor Blades still participate over there?


    Possibly (none / 0) (#93)
    by squeaky on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 09:54:29 PM EST
    To give some leadership.

    Yeah, I can understand that (5.00 / 0) (#99)
    by Dr Molly on Tue Apr 08, 2008 at 06:26:05 AM EST
    But it's an interesting question. At what point does the behavior become so vile and the commentary so full of lies that a progressive with integrity should no longer associate with that site? At what point do well-meaning people there become complicit in the horror show if they stay?

    I can understand some of them wanting to stay and trying to lead it in another direction. It doesn't seem to be working though...  Good grief, the comments to his recent posts have been horrifying.


    Actually Meteor Blades did (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by hairspray on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 07:12:12 PM EST
    a farily decent job on the front page. The commenters were pretty predictable.  I wrote to factcheck and media matters and asked them to do this story.  It needs to be examined in a reputable venue and allow us to refer people to their sites. I believe Media Matters will do a good one on it.

    They do not (5.00 / 4) (#45)
    by vigkat on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 06:50:50 PM EST
    and will not accept the truth; it does not interest them in any way.  It is irrelevant.

    Never believe the media (5.00 / 3) (#4)
    by madamab on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 05:59:23 PM EST
    is a lesson I learned during Bill Clinton's administration.

    It was really brought home to me after I read "Blinded by the Right."

    The only people who will "do anything to win" are the Republicans. Count on it and expect it.

    And count on the corporate media to enable them every step of the way.

    used to be (5.00 / 3) (#6)
    by miguelito on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 06:01:32 PM EST
    the only people that will 'do anything to win" were the Republicans.   They now have equally despise worthy company.

    It's hard to trust (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by standingup on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 08:54:49 PM EST
    them after they helped elect George W. Bush twice and gave an assist in going to war in Iraq too.  

    I can't believe the number of Democrats in Congress who are willing to give them interviews to trash Hillary when the same media would not give them the time of day for the last seven years when it came to important legislation and nominations.  The media has not been fair to Democrats and we should not forget or overlook that when it is convenient.  


    News Flash (5.00 / 5) (#5)
    by bjorn on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 06:00:53 PM EST
    Ann Kornblut at Washington Post just said on Race08 that the hospital story has a surprise ending and that she is writing about it for tomorrow's paper.  She said there has been a lot of miscommunication, and the family of the woman is coming forward AND it may just turn out Clinton was telling the truth after all!!!

    Of course (5.00 / 5) (#7)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 06:01:57 PM EST
    it is true. Now is the time to hit the Media.

    If it's true the media may actually (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by dk on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 06:29:05 PM EST
    correct itself, do you think the "progressive" blogosphere will do the same?  I doubt it.

    They may make a correction (5.00 / 4) (#33)
    by Edgar08 on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 06:31:19 PM EST
    Everyone may make a correction, but they will do so in such a way to say it was Clinton's fault that they screwed up.

    You can add Tweety (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by vigkat on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 06:49:19 PM EST
    to the list.  He just spent some time discussing Hillary's credibility and trust problems, highlighting the Bachtel story, essentially repeating the meme that the story Hillary told turned out not to be true. He went on to mention all of her other purported "lies," including the sniper fire story.  Chuck Todd did not leap on the story, pointing out that Obama has had a few of the same kinds of stories to deal with, but this only brought chuckles from Tweety.  At least Chuck Todd manages to maintain a certain level of detachment, which is highly appreciated.

    Hardball (none / 0) (#61)
    by Traven on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 07:13:18 PM EST
    Hmm, you must have watched a different version of Hardball than I did.  I heard them say off-handedly that the story may not have been exactly true as Hillary told it (which is the case) but the essence of it was more or less right, and that her staff was to blame, and that it wasn't that big a deal, but coming on the heels of the Tuzla whopper, that it reinforced a sense that some folks have that Hillary, you know, uhm...lies a lot.  Matthews basically argued for her to find another, vetted story, since, again, what Hillary was talking about was, they all acknowledged, happens all too often, even if the details of this story were kind of bollixed up.  But then I don't think all of Hillary's problems are the fault of the media.

    Heh. (5.00 / 4) (#10)
    by madamab on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 06:04:17 PM EST
    I have long thought that Hillary and Bill have got to be the squeaky-cleanest politicians in history.

    After all, they've been investigated for 16 years, and all they could find was that Bill had an affair (or two). Imagine the dirt they could dig on Dubya if they investigated him for 16 MINUTES!!!

    Hillary is too smart to lie on purpose. I'm sure she was telling the truth. Go Hillary! :-)


    Well hell (5.00 / 2) (#13)
    by hitchhiker on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 06:05:51 PM EST
    It will be fascinating to see how thoroughly they trash themselves for doing exactly what they've been accusing Hillary Clinton of doing.

    Twisting the facts.
    Using another person's tragedy in a self-serving way.

    This is truly kabuki theater, citizens.  


    And The Truth Is... (5.00 / 11) (#11)
    by CoralGables on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 06:04:48 PM EST
    And the truth that everyone seems to forget is...both the baby and the mother are dead because of an inadequate health care system. Of course that's but a minor detail, lost in the trash Hillary story.

    why would "progressive" blogs learn? (5.00 / 2) (#12)
    by Turkana on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 06:05:29 PM EST
    you assume that they care more about getting it right than getting hillary.

    yes, this campaign season has made me even more cynical.

    They do not (5.00 / 6) (#15)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 06:07:52 PM EST
    The comment from daily kos FPers in Meteor Blades post are appalling.

    they do not even know the facts of the story but argue she asked for it. Just like Gore.

    They make Bob Somerby look like a genius. They are a joke.


    i hadn't seen mb's post (5.00 / 3) (#21)
    by Turkana on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 06:17:22 PM EST
    good on him for, as usual, trying to inject some sanity into an insane campaign season. although he should have given me some props for his also excellent earlier post! i'm afraid to read the comments to this one. i generally don't bother with the comments in dk threads, anymore.

    I predict two more days (5.00 / 2) (#24)
    by blogtopus on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 06:21:28 PM EST
    And MB is gone from DKos for good.

    i actually wish it were so (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by Turkana on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 06:33:05 PM EST
    i wish he and some others would branch off. i've said that before. but he's very loyal, and i assume will keep trying to save that place. the bottom line is that i respect him so much that even when i disagree with him, i can't fault him.

    Shades of Davey Crockett? (5.00 / 2) (#54)
    by blogtopus on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 07:01:14 PM EST
    Trying to protect the Alamo from the onslaught of teh stupids?

    His post stilllacks the essential point (5.00 / 5) (#25)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 06:22:09 PM EST
    Hillary Clinton's recounted story is TRUE.

    why I hate the daily kos community is in full force in that thread, from a certain FPer to the complete disrespect for facts to the blatant hatred of Democrats who challenge their God.

    At this point, I disrespect any of you who actually comment at that community. I have to ask you why you do it?


    heh (5.00 / 3) (#32)
    by Turkana on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 06:30:27 PM EST
    check the date of my last comment. i think it was a few days before alegre posted her "strike."

    i would say i now respect about a handful of the fpers, there. of course, i respect them as much as i respect anyone in the blogosphere. but the great work they do is all but buried by their fellow fpers and by the disgraceful "community"- the best of whom are also all but buried by the larger mass.

    i think jeralyn has it right- that you do have to take a much stronger stand from the top, to moderate the insanity. of course, when some of their fpers are part of the problem...


    You were more prescient than me (5.00 / 3) (#36)
    by andgarden on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 06:37:47 PM EST
    by a few days. I decided to leave when I was accused of practicing "shillaryhood."

    i had been weaning myself for some time (5.00 / 3) (#39)
    by Turkana on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 06:41:31 PM EST
    and one day i just didn't care enough to respond to people.

    Likewise (5.00 / 3) (#42)
    by andgarden on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 06:42:35 PM EST
    I spent hours sourcing and (5.00 / 2) (#66)
    by hairspray on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 07:22:34 PM EST
    linking trying to refute some of the wildest claims about Bill and Hillary and got nothing but screeching back. I stayed for a while because of Masslib,Allegre, Universal, and others whose Hillary diaries were usually quite good.  I loved Bonddad and PastorDan, Jerome a Paris and others like that and still miss them.  But the ugliness from the "boys and girls" is overpowering.

    Several people left right around that time, (5.00 / 2) (#77)
    by MarkL on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 08:03:22 PM EST
    myself included. The day I left, 4 or 5 other frequent commenters told me they were going as well.
    It was when Markos was pimping the story about Obama's photo and racism.

    To be clear (none / 0) (#27)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 06:23:34 PM EST
    I like and respect most of the FPers there.

    Hmmm.... (none / 0) (#55)
    by oldpro on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 07:02:27 PM EST
    but not those who occasionally visit to give them support.



    Still trying. (none / 0) (#70)
    by Fabian on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 07:26:46 PM EST
    It's telling, but the subject I try very hard not to discuss there is politics.  There's a great home improvement/repair forum that I check out faithfully.

    I rec a few diaries, rec a few comments, try to cheer on the good guys - when I feel like it.  I just checked the comments on MB's diary...time to go back to discussing gardening and the best treatment for cedar.

    (I noted that there would be more comments about "snipers" than "health care" at about 70 comments.  By morning it should be at about 500 - I may go back and make a tally.)


    Why? (none / 0) (#95)
    by ghost2 on Tue Apr 08, 2008 at 02:27:35 AM EST
    Behavior such as those at DK should not be rewarded.  

    I was there to support the few Hillary supporters, such as Alegre and others.  The day Alegre posted her strike diary, I felt liberated.  

    I consider it a matter of principle to not even click on that place.


    It's easy to be reality based (none / 0) (#100)
    by Fabian on Tue Apr 08, 2008 at 06:55:38 AM EST
    when you are talking about home improvements.

    There's a weird disconnect happening there now.  I went to MB's Bachtel diary and either people just don't rec comments anymore, or there are only a few handfuls of people discussing things anymore.

    It takes very little time to hammer out some trite and over used sentiment like "pathological liar" over and over and over again.  Real discussions about real facts and real research take a lot of time.  It's obvious that some commenters didn't even read the links - their comments were like an e-version of "Telephone".  They had the facets of the story all mashed up and confused.

    My old advice to new users at dkos was "Ask questions and listen carefully to the answers.".

    There aren't many inquiring minds there anymore.


    I really thought Bush (none / 0) (#80)
    by Burned on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 08:17:30 PM EST
    and the T.V. love for him was going to be the death of me years ago. DK saved me. You could log on any time of day and find out that there were a whole bunch of people there with you that weren't crazy.

    I think I gave up on that tonight. Even the FP's have been whittled down to a few that I'd trust.


    ugh (5.00 / 4) (#23)
    by Turkana on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 06:20:28 PM EST
    okay, started to read the comments, and the thread immediately goes off topic to more attacks on hillary. didn't even get to any fper comments. and to think of all the time i wasted over there, trying to get people to be factual and fair.

    Used to be in awe of Kos, (5.00 / 5) (#35)
    by clio on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 06:33:23 PM EST
    whom I traveled several hours to see when he was on his tour for Crashing the Gate. So impressive.
    And Meteor Blades.  Always looked forward to his comments and insights.

    Can't bear to go to the Daily Orange anymore... and I've read it forever.
    Sigh.  Hurts.

    I'll get over it.  As I've said to younger women for years, "If I refused to vote for candidates who don't get it about sexism, I couldn't vote for anybody."  Certainly no presidential candidate in living memory.  (Get this.  Gerald Ford, for the gods' sakes, came close.)

    But I keep voting for the least flawed candidate, so I suppose I'll resign  myself to these less flawed political commentators.  There are certainly worse ones.

    But it's never the same when you realize that someone you once respected sees you as an inferior being. Valued in many ways, perhaps even respected for certain talents, but still inferior.
    Sigh.  Hurts.


    sad thing is (5.00 / 3) (#16)
    by miguelito on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 06:08:16 PM EST
    once this is proven true, it will still be the anti-Clinton blogosphere's talking point for months to come.

    Even sadder (none / 0) (#31)
    by waldenpond on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 06:29:12 PM EST
    there are a few on this site who won't let it go either.

    This is one of those times (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by blogtopus on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 06:59:25 PM EST
    To copy the URL and put it somewhere safe. When Moopsy or someone else shows up with this tripe, just paste the URL and say "Game Over". Show them we can cut and paste, too. :-P

    There are so many things the media missed (5.00 / 6) (#17)
    by clio on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 06:08:53 PM EST
    in this story, but one of the saddest is that no one in the real world doubted that it happened.

    Not Senator Clinton, not the deputy who told it to her, not her audiences, not the many people who wrote about it initially.

    Only when the media wanted to discredit Senator Clinton did they send out their heartless, clueless, wealth-and-privilege-shielded commentators to deny it was true.

    And, of course they were wrong.  
    It did happen.
    Just as the rest of us, living in the real America, which has no resemblance to Andrea Michell's fantasy America, knew all along.

    And Many in the Progressive Blogosphere (5.00 / 3) (#46)
    by BDB on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 06:50:56 PM EST
    They doubted it happened.  Of course, I'm willing to bet a lot of those folks have health insurance.

    I think the young woman had another (none / 0) (#71)
    by hairspray on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 07:29:49 PM EST
    child.  Did someone else read that as well?  If so, this makes it even more heineous. A young woman and her fetus dead and now a motherless child as well.  Great!

    I do not think so. (none / 0) (#73)
    by Fabian on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 07:35:09 PM EST
    Her obit listed her stillborn child, but I do not remember seeing another child listed as a survivor.  Someone can double check that.

    (When did 35 year olds become "young women"?  Just asking.....)


    35 years old (none / 0) (#83)
    by kayla on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 08:37:14 PM EST
    is an extremely young age to die.

    Pregnancy can kill at any age. (none / 0) (#90)
    by Fabian on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 09:03:22 PM EST
    As soon as a female begins to ovulate, her life is at risk.

    Besides, I always loved that Sandman issue where Death goes around doing her somber duty.  

    "You lived what anybody gets, Bernie. You got a lifetime. No more. No less."

    Youth doesn't matter so much to me.  It's the different standards of care that bug me.  The hospital I used had its own high risk ward, where women who had troubled pregnancies were monitored 24/7 and if their conditioned worsened, the baby was delivered.  A world of difference.


    She had insurance... (5.00 / 6) (#19)
    by dianem on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 06:15:34 PM EST
    ...but was denied treatment because she didn't have money to pay for an outstanding bill from when she didn't have insurance. This actually is an even more damning indictment of our medical system than before. People who have insurance should not be turned away because of medical bills. Heck... pregnant women should NEVER be turned away, no matter what. How can people stand to think that way? "Details" be damned. A young woman died from complications related to pregnancy. This should NEVER have happened in a developed nation. But the media and the Obama blogs are so hung up on the "Hillary Lied" meme that they can't even see the tragedy of the situation.

    I've always said that hating hurts the people who hate more than the one hated. I think that some progressives have let their hatred for Bush fill them to the point that they are unable to feel empathy. They have become addicted to anger. If Bush isn't doing enough to anger them, they will find fault with the Democratic Party, or Pelosi, or Reid, or Clinton, or some government agency, or a corporation, or each other. Anybody who does something they don't like is attacked viciously, because these people no longer know how to reason, they are so addicted to anger.

    Anger is powerful. I've felt the draw. It is an intense emotion, and it's very easy to get distracted by it, and very hard to use reason when one is in it's thrall. But it's a negative energy, it sucks the joy out of life until there is no pleasure in anything.

    Even if true, the whole premise of this is BS (5.00 / 4) (#20)
    by Exeter on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 06:15:35 PM EST
    Why is the media investigating the truthfulness of an ancedotal story? Is there any doubt there are many, many, many Trina Bachtels in the world?

    Why? to catch Hillary, of course (5.00 / 2) (#52)
    by Josey on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 06:59:40 PM EST
    "Catching Obama" in a real lie about his father's connection to the Kennedy family is off limits.

    In fairness (none / 0) (#84)
    by Manuel on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 08:42:45 PM EST
    The media shouldn't be playing this "gotcha" game with anyone.  What they should be doing is finding all the real Trina Bachtel stories that are out there.

    We need to start holding the media accountable for their malpractice.


    Andrea Mitchell and Credibility. (5.00 / 6) (#22)
    by Gabriele Droz on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 06:20:03 PM EST
    Where on earth CAN we find credibility anymore these days?  I guess we'll just have to hang out over here with BTD and Jeralyn to continue to get some true perspective, and a nice dose of filtering out the dirt.

    Thank you both J and BTD.  You do a tremendous service to those of us with little time to wade.

    We try (5.00 / 7) (#26)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 06:22:58 PM EST
    And remember this, when we are wrong, we will admit it. Andrea Mitchell NEVER will.

    I know you will. (5.00 / 4) (#28)
    by Gabriele Droz on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 06:27:26 PM EST
    I've been watching this blog for some time. And it's hard to trust these days. Cheers!

    Andrea Mitchell (5.00 / 2) (#29)
    by bjorn on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 06:27:58 PM EST
    anyone know her email!  I want to tell her she owes and apology to her viewers!

    You'll probably get (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by magisterludi on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 06:41:08 PM EST
    the Donna Brazille treatment.

    comments on digby, kos, et al (5.00 / 4) (#37)
    by wreck on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 06:37:57 PM EST
    I decided to torture myself and read the comments on both Kos and Digby re: the "truth" of Clinton's anecdote. Pretty depressing stuff. Democrats accusing Clinton of being a craven opportunist for having the gall to insist that people in this rich country shouldn't be refused medical care. Period. Lots of stuff about Bosnia sniper fire and credibility shot. No matter the amount of explanations, evidence, or pragmatic politics (that even if Clinton were lying, which she clearly wasn't, it is lying in the service of a good) there's seems to be no way to even begin to counter the "monstering" of Clinton by some supposedly progressive thinkers. It is the Clinton rules, but it stuns me nonetheless.  

    BTW everyone, (5.00 / 3) (#40)
    by Gabriele Droz on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 06:41:38 PM EST
    have you checked out Tom Rinaldo's currently top recommended diary on MYDD?  If not, it's worth a look:


    Tom, like me is an ardent Clark supporter (whatever the hell he chooses to do), and one of the best bloggers at Securing America's CCN blog.  He's going all out for Hillary right now, and his posts are truly worth reading:


    Whoops. Posted the link twice. (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by Gabriele Droz on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 06:42:19 PM EST

    So Perhaps (5.00 / 2) (#51)
    by suisser on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 06:59:27 PM EST
    A. Mitchell is still mad about Jamie Rubin making perfectly clear her lack of professionalism regarding HRC, on air, in front of millions?

    Oh...... (none / 0) (#58)
    by michitucky on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 07:09:19 PM EST
    That was a wonderful moment!  :-)

    Hillary and Bosnia (5.00 / 3) (#57)
    by Wry on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 07:08:27 PM EST
    This is my first post because I don't really understand all the ins and outs of blogging ...so I just read.
    I do know something about Bosnia though. Almost every Bosnian in the Astoria area of Queens, New York who can vote (most can't) has registered this year to vote for Hillary.
    They know her trip to Bosnia was dangerous, and some thought it was foolish for her to bring her daughter.
    The thing is, the talk that day was that the safest place to be in Bosnia was that tarmac when Hillary landed, because they had positioned "snipers in the hills" in case of trouble.
    Bosnian Muslims aren't particularly big on feminism, but they admire strong women regardless.
    The community is very much behind Hillary Clinton.

    Thank you! (none / 0) (#65)
    by bjorn on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 07:20:53 PM EST
    That is really great to hear.

    The media salivates (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by Andy08 on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 07:12:48 PM EST
    anything they can use to trash HRC; over and over.
    I am fed up of this.  

    How can we as a nation have a serious dialogue about anything when the majority of "fourth state" is happier with gutter gotcha stories  
    than serious investigative reporting...

    There are so many reporters I lost respect for than
    until a new generation comes up I doubt I'll waste my time reading any of them...They are a joke.

    jnicola (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by cpinva on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 07:15:46 PM EST
    yeah, i guess her aunt's lying to keep sen. clinton from being embarassed. in fact, i bet she sat down with her niece and concocted this whole scenario, knowing, in advance, that sen. clinton would eventually use it in a speech.

    damn, those clinton's are just amazingly sneaky!

    Kornblut finally out with her story (5.00 / 3) (#63)
    by Grey on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 07:17:25 PM EST
    Clinton Told True Tale of Woe, Says Kin

    Catch up, NBC.  First it was Tapper, now it's Kornblut.  And you're going to wake up...when?

    The answer is never..... (5.00 / 2) (#67)
    by Maria Garcia on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 07:23:37 PM EST
    ...NBC News and its mini me MSNBC have gone beyond simple irresponsible. They are trying to game an election.

    Email Joe Scarborough, MSNBC. (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by vicsan on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 07:39:14 PM EST
    Link: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036789/

    Hillary will be on Morning Joe tomorrow morning at 6:20 AM ET. Please email Joe and make sure he understands the Bachtel story that Hillary has been telling is TRUE. I sent him a link to the No Quarter story and hope more people will help me set him and Mika, the Obama cultist, straight BEFORE he interviews Hillary so he can APOLOGIZE to her for all the LIES MSNBC has been repeating all day long. I watched Morning Joe this morning and Mika was THRILLED that she could repeat the lies about this story. She really hates Hillary and it shows...though she tries to act impartial, but she obviously isn't.

    Follow the link and midway down the page there's a place where you can email Joe. Have at him.

    I did as you suggested. (none / 0) (#78)
    by hairspray on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 08:10:38 PM EST
    Do you know how I can e-mail the rest of those shills at MSNBC as wel?  I want to fire one off at Andrea Mitchell. Thanks for the link.

    There is this (none / 0) (#97)
    by ghost2 on Tue Apr 08, 2008 at 02:50:36 AM EST
    from comment at Taylor Marsh's site:



    I'm in California (none / 0) (#85)
    by waldenpond on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 08:49:41 PM EST
    Let me know when it's up on Youtube.  I'm a Clinton supporter, but 3:20?  Hunh uh. :)

    Here's a link to the MSNBC video (none / 0) (#101)
    by vicsan on Tue Apr 08, 2008 at 09:52:10 AM EST
    of the Hillary interview. Hillary was GREAT and Joe Scarborough was too funny for words. I never thought I'd see the day where I would actually admire the Republican Joe Scarborough! I use to detest that man. Now I reserve that for his sidekick Mika. :(



    That would be something to watch. (none / 0) (#96)
    by ghost2 on Tue Apr 08, 2008 at 02:37:36 AM EST
    Joe was first elected to congress in 1994.  About a year ago, he apologized to Hillary for the treatment he gave her then (can't find the video).  Lately, it's been funny.  He absolutely admires her toughness, and said that he wants to write a book about her, calling it "True Grit".  He has been teased about it endlessly.

    Please capture that for youtube if you can.  Thanks.  


    Here's a link to the interview. (none / 0) (#102)
    by vicsan on Tue Apr 08, 2008 at 09:54:21 AM EST
    Enjoy. Joe was SOOOOO funny! Hillary was awesome, of course.:)



    Could this be (5.00 / 1) (#88)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 08:56:20 PM EST
    a Hillary gotcha?  She knew they would pick it up, consider it a lie and then the reality and the outrage would come out?  and a protest on Friday, of course.

    Is she that clever?

    Digby Pretty Much Says It All (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by kaleidescope on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 09:11:01 PM EST
    Just thinking about Mrs. Alan Greenspan and Anne Kornbluth makes me want to kind of throw up in my mouth.

    The media has been tremendously unfair to Ms. Clinton for almost the whole campaign.  They pumped her up for a little while so she could be useful in the Fox News-directed drama about Reverend Wright and the continuing struggle for the nomination.  

    Now that that meme has run its course and she's no longer of use to them, they revert to their usual misogynistic Heatheresque coverage.

    Clinton will never be allowed to put anything to bed.  If she's the nominee the Republicans will kill her with the willing help of Andrea Mitchell and Cokie Roberts.

    It's really unfair what they've done to her.  But there you are.  

    Kind of reminds you of what they'll probably do to Barack Obama over Reverend Wright.

    Digby link above is broken (4.50 / 4) (#8)
    by rilkefan on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 06:02:38 PM EST
    The media is broken too.  And most of the political blogs.

    Why waste time learning when ignorance is instantaneous?

    Where's the credibility problem? (1.00 / 2) (#43)
    by jnicola on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 06:43:19 PM EST
    So in this story there are two clinics which deny that Bachtel was treated there in the last five years. At least one of these clearly denies that she would have been refused treatment if she had come there. We also have the hospital she was treated in making it clear that she was never rejected from there. And everybody seems clear that she had insurance. All of these points directly contradict Clinton's account of the case. Aside from the aunt's unproven, unsourced assertion, where is there any evidence that Bachtel was denied treatment anywhere?

    I object to this story not because I think American healthcare's in a decent state; it's an expensive nightmare. However, in the absence of any decent sourcing of it, it was deeply foolish at best for Clinton to use the story, particularly when there is hardly a shortage of well sourced healthcare atrocities. Using this one allows the media to write a process story; it contributes to the meme of her mendacity. Worst of all, it allows the Republicans to argue falsus in uno and therefore damages the case against the US healthcare system. Running a tight campaign, getting on with the press, and not giving hostages to fortune, should be necessary skills for presidential candidates.

    Just to note - if the Ashley Baia story proved to be wrong too, even if Obama had been assured of it on good authority, he'd have been equally foolish to use it. And he was wrong, though it matters less, to use his family history without checking it, for the same reasons.

    Uh, excuse me (5.00 / 2) (#47)
    by andgarden on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 06:51:39 PM EST
    in the absence of any decent sourcing of it, it was deeply foolish at best for Clinton to use the story, particularly when there is hardly a shortage of well sourced healthcare atrocities
    Do you understand the difference between this and shrilly calling Hillary a liar?

    Actually (5.00 / 2) (#49)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 06:53:28 PM EST
    This is now incredibly well sourced.

    That mistake I could just (none / 0) (#56)
    by andgarden on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 07:03:49 PM EST
    ascribe to ignorance.

    Heh. Yes, unlike your well sourced first person account. This comment is parody. did you just come over from Daily Kos?

    Fellow netizens (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by Manuel on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 08:34:53 PM EST
    Get ready.  The last safe place on the net is under attack :-)

    Read Politico/AP ever (1.00 / 3) (#64)
    by indy33 on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 07:19:45 PM EST
    To say that the media got this wrong and to blame kos is hilarious. The most important facts were and still are completley false! This was a story to show that people not having insurance is bad and people are being turned away because of it. This part is completley false. She had insurance! She was turned away because of the 100 dollars which is awful and if told correctly would have the same impact if not more. Can we not see that exagerating for her message has caused the story to lose credibility. Half truths are also half lies! I know that the first ten posts after this will be all of Obamas exaggerations(which he isnt entirely innocent of) but blaming the meda on this one is a stretch.  

    Sigh (5.00 / 2) (#68)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 07:25:17 PM EST
    Stupid can not be cured. Or hate. One or the other.

    You are wrong (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by Dave B on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 07:31:05 PM EST
    She did not have insurance at the beginning and ran up huge bills at a clinic.

    Did you even attempt to read all three of BTD's posts on the subject?


    "progressive" blogs (none / 0) (#3)
    by Lahdee on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 05:58:13 PM EST
    are Media as such. What was that Howard Beale said?

    Looks like (none / 0) (#69)
    by flyerhawk on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 07:26:32 PM EST
    the media is jumping to the narrative without actually checking the facts.  

    WashPost story confirms (none / 0) (#75)
    by indy33 on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 07:44:44 PM EST
    that there was a real story to tell here and Clinton told it wrong. This headline is misleading in my opinion. She leaves out the fact that the woman already had debt to the hospital which puts their demand for a hundred dollar deposit in a different context.(still not right but if added at least shows some of the hospitals side).  The aunt also doesnt name the offending hospital. She was sent a letter by the hospital not turned away at their doorstep and she eventually went to another hospital with insurance. This is a tragic story and shows the hoops that a young woman had to go through because of our broken system but because the facts dont completley check out its less effective and open for criticism in my view. This seems to be the same story with Tuzla, almost true but not quite. The media will kill you on this stuff, and the Obama "shill" Keith Olbermann and Richard Wolffe gave her a mulligan. I agree but I think the factual story would  have been as compelling.  

    That the media wil "kill" you (none / 0) (#81)
    by Manuel on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 08:29:22 PM EST
    and not focus on the big picture (i.e. issues) is exactly what is wrong with the media.  The media should not be engaged in its "gotcha" games.  It should be protecting the public interest from which they benefit.  It is interestig that you are defending the same media that led the cheers on the war you opposed.

    As progressives we should be calling the media on their errors not making excuses for them.


    Can I call you stupid too? (none / 0) (#76)
    by indy33 on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 08:02:09 PM EST
    Quote " She SHOWED UP and the hospital said "you know you have to give us a hundred dollars before we can see you, she didnt have a hundred dollars"  She was sent a letter because she already had run up sizeable debt w/o insurance. So they treated her for quite awhile but asked for a hundred dollars in a letter, not in  the midst of an emergency for deposit. Is this the moving story that Clinton was trying to tell? No it didnt quite make the hospital evil enough. I think they are evil personally but ill take the more factual story anyway. Stupid!    

    Nitpicking is also stupid (none / 0) (#94)
    by RalphB on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 10:00:44 PM EST
    in this case.  Stop digging your hole, it's deep enough already.

    As I understand, (none / 0) (#98)
    by ghost2 on Tue Apr 08, 2008 at 02:56:32 AM EST
    She had paid that debt, but still the hospital asked for a $100 deposit despite insurance, b/c of the old 'credit' record.  It was pay up front or go away.  

    and it still goes back to the lack of insurance in the first place.  


    Before Obama existed (none / 0) (#79)
    by indy33 on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 08:15:55 PM EST
    I was upset with Clinton. While I was screaming to mostly deaf ears that we were making the biggest mistake ever by going into Iraq, I just knew that I had my Democrats in congress who would stand up for my voice. If Clinton would have read the NIE and had the guts to stand up against ths war then many Dems would have followed besides the courageous ones who did. She had a chance at leadership and failed miserably. I always reminded my hardcore democratic friends that this was as much a democrat war as a republican or Bush War. She disqualified herself for me right then. I was a huge supporter of the Clintons through the roughest of times because most of the things they were criticized for were frivolous and lies. Her war vote was neither and it changed my opinion of her. I dont hate her at all, im dissapointed in her and this campaign has not helped. It has reinforced all the neg. stereotypes of them and its truly a shame.

    I assume that you're also furious (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 08:55:34 PM EST
    with Kerry and Daschle and all the welcomed-with-open-arms Obama supporters who also voted for the war.

    Absolutey! (none / 0) (#91)
    by indy33 on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 09:04:22 PM EST
    I wish Daschle wouldnt have gotten beat by John Thune, a republican for his seat, but he deserves to lose it for his lack of leadership and his vote. Same with Kerry. I worked hard to try to convince all the Democrats I knew that Kerry was a weak canidatewho would lose precisley because of his vote on the war. Good thing Obama came around and we can not make that same mistake again, and I think Daschle and Kerry realize this.