The DNC Stripping Of The FL Delegates: Brazile "Sends A Message To FL"

By Big Tent Democrat

"I want to send a message to Florida."

- Donna Brazile, 8-25-08 DNC Meeting

Here is the video of the 8-25-07 DNC meeting where Florida was stripped of its delegates. I will watch it now and add my analysis to this post.

The DNC Staff recommended that the rule the Florida delegate selection plan to be not in compliance. The DNC Staff did NOT recommend a punishment.

Florida, through its Dem Party Chair Karen Thurman, then presented its case for why it was in compliance. More . . .

Thurman argued that the DNC Rule 20.c.7, 21.a and 21.b provided Florida Dems with a safe harbor for its plan. Thurman argued that success in reversing the GOP primary plan was not required by the rules. And indeed they do not. Thurman then recounted the story of the Florida primary legislation. Thurman presents a compelling case of the Florida Democratic Party's efforts, including the introduction of amendments to the Republican legislation. Frankly, it is ludicrous to argue the Florida Democratic Party did not try to change the date of the Democratic primary in Florida.

Just with those facts, the 100% stripping of the Florida delegates was indefensible and frankly, obscene. (Quick aside - Jon Aussman's unity schtick for mercy was quite ironic in light of Obama's adamant stance against the Dem voters of Florida.) So how did it happen?

Ralph Dawson moved for moving beyond the express punishment of 50% loss of delegates to a 100% stripping of delegates. the reasons for this proposal were unstated by Mr. Dawson. The next comment, from an unidentified DNC member was ridiculous and proof positive that this was a kangaroo court intent on stripping Florida of its delegates. the comment called for proof that ALL Democratic elected officials in Florida had fought against the GOP legislation. Aussman pointed out that this apparatchik was simply wrong in what he said. This apparatchik talked about "the people in the country were looking to them." These people are nuts. The Democratic Party deserves to lose with idiots like these in charge. This apparatchik in particular is one of the most outrageous persons I have ever seen. He is disgusting. I want to find out his name so I can start a campaign to get him removed from the DNC.

One can only hope that they assumed the Florida and Michigan delegations would be immaterial to the selection of the nominee. This performance is a walking advertisement for what is wrong with the DNC.

Hilarious moment - one DNC member speaking very favorably of the mail in primary. Why can't we do that now? What does THAT DNC member think of Obama blocking the FL mail in vote?

The DNC plan for Florida was hilarious - 150,000 ballots were to be printed. Let me repeat, the DNC plan was expecting the voice of Florida Dems to be encompassed in the votes of 150,000 voters. There are 4 million Democrats in Florida. The DNC is a clown show.

Now, the issue of the punishment is easily the most amazing part of this. The DNC DEPARTED from the written punishment provided by the DNC rules based on NOTHING. Literally, there was a motion but no argument whatsoever for why the 100% stripping was appropriate.

Gary Shay, a California DNC member, argued that since California, which is controlled by Democrats, did not move up its primary, then Florida must be fully stripped of its delegates. Remember his name, Gary Shay.

This DNC Committee Hearing should be remembered and live in infamy. This is a tape we should all remember. Every idiot who created this mess should be remembered.

If we lose the Presidency because of the stupidity exhibited in that room on that day - I want every one to remember who these idiots were. Who the idiots were that cost us the White House.

The biggest idiot was, of course, Donna Brazile, the most destructive force in the Democratic Party that one can imagine. Please leave the Democratic National Committee Ms. Brazile.

On January 29, 2008, 1.7 million Florida Democrats went to the polls and voted for the candidate of their choice. The Democratic National Committee, if things do not change, will ignore those voters and their votes (I am for a revote) and hand the 27 electoral votes of Florida to the Republicans. They will make down ticket races in Florida extremely difficult to win. They will have set back Democrats in Florida for the foreseeable future. The DNC's actions are indefensible, from Howard Dean to Donna Brazile to Harold Ickes. This is a disgrace.

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    Go to around 20.00 minutes (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by ghost2 on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 03:01:33 PM EST
    For the discussion of caucuses, Jon Ausman is going strong, all the arguments that we now know, even then.  

    What a bunch of hacks DNC members are. Asses.

    He also makes the ROOLz (none / 0) (#35)
    by Stellaaa on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 05:12:10 PM EST
    point this Republican zero tolerance junk that we have been getting all these years.  

    What was the message Brazile wanted to send? (5.00 / 4) (#8)
    by MarkL on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 04:13:08 PM EST
    "GO OBAMA!"?

    FRAK YOU Florida (5.00 / 4) (#10)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 04:14:40 PM EST
    is what I heard.

    Message received (5.00 / 2) (#36)
    by Step Beyond on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 05:12:26 PM EST
    And they can look for my reply on November 4, 2008.

    If they need a visual representation, it would be me saluting them with my purple-inked middle finger.


    i will have my middle finger pruple as well! (none / 0) (#93)
    by fly on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 01:34:03 AM EST
    and my sig line on all my current emails are ..a picture of Mickey Mouse and the following..

    Mickey Mouse 08!!( picture of mickey)
    Dean, Donna Brazile , Obama, and Pelosi, STEAL  my vote for the primaries, this will be my write in vote in November!

    Oh and I am getting many people writing me back, saying they too will write in Mickey Mouse if our votes are not counted until after a nominee is crowned!

    Oh and I believe this lady was on that committee that stripped our delegates!
    Alice Germond
    DNC Secretary


    opps " purple" ..typo (none / 0) (#94)
    by fly on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 01:34:41 AM EST
    BTD, Dawson (NY) is a super-delegate (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by Cream City on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 06:57:42 PM EST
    declared for Obama, per my earlier comments.  I had checked and verified that yesterday.  It might be worth adding that above or recalling it for posterity, as we continue to try to figure out how this went down.  I also found that he is tight with Brazile, as also can be seen in her support here for his motion.

    You don't note former DNC chair Don Fowler, bless him, for being the sole sane voice -- another thing to keep in mind as this keeps unraveling. . . .


    Frak You Florida... (none / 0) (#96)
    by workingclass artist on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 06:43:10 AM EST
    Thanks for the post.... Good evidence for Bruno's law suit he's refiling in Florida. What a bunch of Putz's... It's so rigged...Hope she stays in all the way to the floor, on principle.

    No the message was something else. (none / 0) (#85)
    by macwiz12 on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 09:14:35 PM EST
    Basically, the message was that my personal power is more important than the voters of Florida. I don't care what you think, you have to do things my way.

    Thanks a lot, we are really happy you would rather feed your personal ego than give the democratic candidate, whoever it is, the chance of winning the 27 electoral votes of Florida.


    Actually (none / 0) (#95)
    by cal1942 on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 02:02:39 AM EST
    I believe that macwiz12 has a very good point.

    It's about those people remaining in DNC leadership or influencing who will be in DNC leadership.

    I believe they want to win in November but they literally care more about their role in the party than they care about winning. I believe that's been part of the problem in the party for some time and it's not just at the national level it can be seen at other levels in the party.

    If Clinton gets the nomination and wins they'll be toast.  They knew it then and they certainly know it now.

    They knew that Clinton would win MI and FL. She was way ahead in the polls at the time.


    and BTW (5.00 / 3) (#9)
    by andgarden on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 04:14:36 PM EST
    I think the right term to describe that meeting and decision making process would be "star chamber."

    Perhaps (none / 0) (#11)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 04:15:10 PM EST
    There certainly was little suspense.

    If the Floridians had confessed (5.00 / 2) (#12)
    by andgarden on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 04:17:04 PM EST
    it would have just been a show trial.

    What's clear is that these members from other states were more concerned about their states being disadvantaged than all voters being treated fairly. This entire process seemed designed to destroy the Democratic party.


    Roosevelt called the apparatchik Mr. McDonald (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by jes on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 04:26:45 PM EST
    didn't he? There are two McDonalds who are DNC Members. Here is a picture of Dennis McDonald; doesn't look like it is him. The other candidate is David McDonald, a seattle attorney - can't find a picture.

    That is indeed our David McDonald (5.00 / 3) (#34)
    by RonK Seattle on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 05:11:55 PM EST
    A very good lawyer and a very good Democrat.

    That he would raise a procedural obstacle so constructed to be insurmountable ("all ... all ...") would suggest that the committee outcome was locked in -- not a receptive hearing and deliberation on the relevant facts, circumstances, arguments and consequences.

    This would remain so even if McDonald had not misrepresented the rule in question (as Ausman pointed out).


    Like I said (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by andgarden on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 05:13:44 PM EST
    somewhere between a star chamber and a show trial.

    Oh, this is cute of your McDonald of WA (5.00 / 3) (#68)
    by Cream City on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 07:04:41 PM EST
    who still is officially an uncommitted super-delegate, but the following from an Obama meetup site in WA a couple of months ago explains it in telling Obamans not to contact and put pressure on McDonald.

    He also is on the credentials committee and still has dirty work to do:

    "Barack Obama's official staff begs you to NOT contact these superdelegates yourself. . . .  Barack himself will be phoning each superdelegate personally and will be more compelling than any of us.  These supers are more than aware that Obama has many supporters, your email or letter will not surprise them and make them switch. They have decided very carefully what to do, for political tactical reasons.

    "Furthermore . . . David McDonald is on the national credentials committee and he may singlehandedly stop the Florida and Michigan results from coming in. He can not endorse before he does that."


    I just got a tingle up my leg (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by ruffian on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 07:54:51 PM EST
    That is good stuff. Don't you wish you had a direct line to a national political reporter who actually reported on how politics works?  Is there such a being left?

    found (none / 0) (#27)
    by jes on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 04:47:22 PM EST
    Um, wow (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by andgarden on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 04:57:39 PM EST
    Managing the Washington State Democratic Party's successful post-election day defense of the election of Governor Christine Gregoire in one of the closest statewide elections in U.S. history. David first served as the Manual Recount Director, coordinating and directing all Democratic efforts related to the first manual recount ever of a statewide election in Washington state history -- and the first statewide recount ever to change an election result -- including four lawsuits, two of which resulted in unanimous decisions of the Washington State Supreme Court.

    Are we really to believe that this guy wasn't capable of reading the rules?


    As I watched him 'ask' that (5.00 / 4) (#30)
    by ruffian on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 05:04:42 PM EST
    statement/question, I had to keep reminding myself that this was a Democrat asking a question of a fellow Democrat.  

    I'm almost halfway through watching this, and it is clear the the committee had made up its mind and are just toying with Thurman, Aussman, and Brady.

    McDonald sounds just like some of the people who have been saying that unless every Dem in Florida stormed the capitol building, they were not doing enough to try to stop the date change. I sense a talking point that has been passed around.


    Yup, that is him (none / 0) (#28)
    by ruffian on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 04:54:46 PM EST
    Nice work!

    I have been unable to get the (5.00 / 2) (#23)
    by litigatormom on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 04:32:36 PM EST
    video to play, but based on the descriptions above, perhaps it is just as well.  This computer is relatively new, and has all my office software on it, so throwing it down on the floor repeatedly until it shatters into a million little bits is probably not a good idea.

    heh (5.00 / 2) (#33)
    by ruffian on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 05:09:40 PM EST
    Good thing I love my MacBook or I would be having a hard time right now!

    Off topic, but, yes, there are Mac loving Hillary supporters. I like wine and latte also.  I guess my 're-education' in August will go smoothly.


    Ditto on the Mac and Latte but... (5.00 / 0) (#53)
    by goldberry on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 06:02:37 PM EST
    ...I'm afraid I can't be retaught.  I will need special ed and possibly filthy lucre.

    I can just see then (none / 0) (#60)
    by Stellaaa on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 06:34:36 PM EST
    the camps..

    This comment and the one above (none / 0) (#69)
    by Cream City on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 07:05:57 PM EST
    crack me up.  I raise my wine glass to you, Stellaa.

    Hec... (none / 0) (#48)
    by Stellaaa on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 05:43:39 PM EST
    I have macs, vintage espresso machines that make the best espresso and a daughter who is a wine maker.  I don't need any re-education from newbie latte, mac and chardonay swillers.

    lol! Love the comment. (5.00 / 0) (#46)
    by ghost2 on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 05:34:12 PM EST
    You may want to try... (none / 0) (#89)
    by marc1a on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 11:11:54 PM EST
    seeing a shorter version over here.

    I'd like to see a transcript (5.00 / 3) (#26)
    by Trickster on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 04:46:23 PM EST
    Donna Brazile:

    "The process was very fair, very democratic, in every step that we've taken. . . ."

    You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

    The process (none / 0) (#54)
    by Stellaaa on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 06:04:06 PM EST
    This is the issue:  

    1.  The dems set up a process they thought was fair.
    2.  The Republicans made it impossible for Florida Dems to abide by the rules.  

    3.  Ergo:  The Dems got out maneuvered and dissenfranchized the Florida Democratic party and it's voters.  

    Brazille, Dean etc, are idiots who have no political sense.  


    Legally (5.00 / 0) (#86)
    by Trickster on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 09:59:36 PM EST
    It really was a kangaroo court.

    The Florida people invoked a specific rule, the relief they were entitled to under that rule, and extensive evidence as to how they had complied with the rule.  The DNC put on no evidence at all, just voted them down.

    In fact, the chair seemed anxious at the beginning to pass the motion with no debate.  Fortunately, he was called on it and the Florida folks were at least allowed to speak before the motion was ceremoniously passed.


    Donna Brazile's statement (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by Cheryl on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 05:08:28 PM EST
    regarding the need to follow the rules is 1:18:32 into the video. She "graciously" said that if Florida changes its date she will be down there "fighting" for them. The grimace on the Florida Democratic Chaiperson's face says it all. I can swear I see her eyes glistening with tears of frustration. It took one hour and twenty-five minutes to throw Florida out. Disgusting.

    Small error, BTD (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by ruffian on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 05:59:02 PM EST
    I only mention it because it is funny.  You have the date of Brazile's quote as 8-25-08.  I believe it was actually 8-25-07.

     It is funny because you are prescient as usual - I'm sure she intends to say the same thing at the convention on 8-25-08.

    at about 1:15:00 (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by ghost2 on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 06:25:47 PM EST
    Don Rowler? seems very reasonable. He is arguing for more time for Florida, and a solution.  He is arguing that they hold up on the sanctions.

    Quote of the video:

    We don't want to do anything that would endanger our prospect of winning next year.

    Donna Brazile is going right after that, and is talking rules... rules... rules.   This woman is repulsive.  

    He's the only one with any foresght (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by ruffian on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 06:39:34 PM EST
    Brazile's tirade was truly remarkable.  Does she not realize that the person that was making her sister in FL show 3 forms of ID to vote was making the same speech about rules having to be followed?  It has been my experience that people who insist on carrying rules to their extreme, to the detriment of the larger goals, usually have their own agenda for doing so.

    Gee, if I had my own nightly cable show I would be writing up a special commentary about the mendacity displayed in this hearing.


    Yep, Fowler is the former DNC chair (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by Cream City on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 07:24:48 PM EST
    in those awful '90s under Bill Clinton, from what I found.  See up for more thoughts.

    Jim Webb - very classy (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by ghost2 on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 06:49:25 PM EST
    I want to link to this interview of Jim Webb.

    "If they didn't want the superdelegates to have independent judgment, they wouldn't have created them,"

    However, Webb declined to say whether he would be willing to vote against the winner of the pledged delegates. "I haven't even gotten to the point of looking at how all that works, honestly," he said.  "I have the luxury of having two candidates in this party who are really exciting the country and bringing more people into the Democratic Party, either of whom can be a very fine president."

    to think (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by anna shane on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 06:52:21 PM EST
    this could have been fun, a great race that would show that we can chose fairly and don't need to have any thumbs on scales. Instead I'm disheartened by my own party of my entire life. when Dean did not speak out against the sexism in the media and the bias, when he did not correct Obama for character attacking, when he did not present fact checks himself and keep the contest civil, I stopped giving money to the DNC and told them why. The whole thing has been up to Hillary, and she's taken the hits for it, as if correcting one guy is grounds for punishment. Now I can see that Donna had her thumb on the scale for Obama from early on, everyone must have known this, but she still represents the party as an honest broker.  I hope they realize that women of a certain age are the one's who write the checks, and no checks will be written to a cheat party that won't accept a fair contest.  How dumb can you get. We'll get McCain and I suppose I'll be blamed.  me and the other women who won't have enough votes between us to save Obama in the GE.  

    A different kind of 'punishment' (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by 1950democrat on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 07:09:25 PM EST
    The key imo is that the whole idea of 'punishing' a state by cutting its delegates is ridiculous, unfair. If they must 'punish', do it in a way that doesn't impact the voters or the candidates. Such as, letting the delegates phone in their votes to the convention, as voted -- but exclude the state leaders from the funny hats and the wheeling and dealing. No hotel rooms needed. :-)

    What is the DNC doing mucking around with giving different weight to different delegations, anyway -- like giving extra weight to states who vote in late spring? And who is the DNC to decide to put certian states early to push certain issues -- like putting SC early to help AA issues?

    One good thing Brazile has said, is that primary votes should happen when the daffodils come out, instead of in snow storms. Ie, the southern states vote, then the race works its way north. (Okay, that would still favor AA's, but at least it's got SOME practicality to it as well.)

    Or, caucus states have to wait for summer, primary states do spring, mail-in states can do any time.

    But really -- this DNC has got too much hidden power, too many levers for corrupting the process....

    With all due respect (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by ghost2 on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 07:10:33 PM EST
    Hillary Clinton and her team are repeating the mistakes of Al Gore in Florida and the 2000 election in this primary.

    In 2000, Al Gore let a lot of injustice go by, because he didn't want to divide his country.  He put his country first, or so he thought.  He was gracious, but he didn't see the utter disaster that followed.

    Hillary Clinton, her team, the democrats in Florida especially (and to a lesser extent those of Michigan) have tried again and again to be gracious in the face of bullying by DNC and the Obama team.  Hillary is thinking that she is putting her country and her party first.  Like Al Gore, she doesn't understand that the country itself and its democratic principles that is, the soul of the country itself, are at stake.  

    Why don't the Florida democrats make a huge stink, complete with demonstrations and purple fingers, about their right to vote?  

    The behavior of DNC, Brazile, Dean, and everyone else has been truely reprehensible.

    Last thing: Next time, when an idiot says that Hillary is dividing the party by staying, ask them to not be such wimps.  I am not an American. However, I know that, not the First World War, nor the Second World War, nor the unrest of the 60's stopped the American elections from going forward.

    So Pat Leahy, apologize to your fellow Americans and please stop being such a wimp.  It's disgraceful.

    not recommended for the weak of heart (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by DandyTIger on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 10:00:11 PM EST
    I made it through the video and the DNC has broken my heart. I am thoroughly disgusted by them. I don't know what else to say.

    Fast Forward to Karen Thurman (none / 0) (#1)
    by andgarden on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 02:50:31 PM EST
    She makes the case that FL Dems tried to take steps to prevent the move, but couldn't. I'm at 12:30, and see no sign of Brazile.

    Brazile comes after Fowler, bless him (none / 0) (#70)
    by Cream City on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 07:07:06 PM EST
    at about 1:15 in the video.

    I've been watching it slowly (none / 0) (#2)
    by Step Beyond on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 02:52:12 PM EST
    thanks to Cream City who mentioned it yesterday. Nothing that surprising in it to me so far. I knew the FDP had looked for possible solutions, including revotes, last year.

    The only thing so far to really strike me is how no attention is really paid to the people of the state. It seems as if there is a huge emphasis on whether EVERY elected official and state party official was loyal enough. But the people of Florida seem to be almost a non-entity.

    Appreciated your earlier input on this (none / 0) (#71)
    by Cream City on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 07:08:43 PM EST
    as well and look forward to what you see in it, too.  I still have to find the time to do the slow viewing but spent about 45 minutes yesterday skimming, stopping, starting -- and stopping often to google who is who, i.e., who are the Obama super-delegates (and unofficial but obvious Obama super-delegates, i.e., Brazile, McDonald of WA, etc. . . .).

    You note (none / 0) (#4)
    by andgarden on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 04:07:22 PM EST
    The next comment, from an unidentified DNC member was ridiculous and proof positive that this was a kangaroo court intent on stripping Florida of its delegates. the comment called for proof that ALL Democratic elected officials in Florida had fought against the GOP legislation.
    I stopped watching as soon as he said that. In fact, he introduced his "point" by saying something like "as I read the rules." I didn't want to throw something at my computer, so I turned it off.

    California isn't "controlled" (none / 0) (#5)
    by myiq2xu on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 04:10:01 PM EST
    by Democrats.  We have a Democratic legislature and a Republican Governator.  Except for Gray Davis' brief term as Governor, the GOP has held that seat since 1982.

    Even though the GOP is currently in the minority, they are a sizable group and are well-financed and organized.

    California did move up its primary, from June to Super Tuesday.

    Who the hell is Gary Shay?  I've never heard of him.

    The point is that (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by andgarden on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 04:11:01 PM EST
    California Democrats had considerable control over primary legislation. In Florida, they had almost none.

    As I recall when (none / 0) (#14)
    by myiq2xu on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 04:22:31 PM EST
    the bill was passed moving our primary up to Super Tuesday, it was very popular and not controversial.  Both parties were in favor and the bill wasn't part of an omnibus election reform like it was in Florida.

    I can't imagine the DNC trying to impose a death penalty on the biggest electoral prize in the country.

    If they had tried, I bet the response of my fellow smog eaters to the DNC would have been two words long.


    But Florida went further (none / 0) (#18)
    by andgarden on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 04:25:09 PM EST
    and Democrats had almost nothing to say about it.

    FL is the 4th biggest electoral prize (none / 0) (#43)
    by ruffian on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 05:25:53 PM EST
    If they would give us the death penalty, don't be so sure they would not have done it to CA also.

    Actually, uou would have been the ideal example case for the death penalty - in the mind of the DNC, they would not have lost anything by penalizing you. 1) you are a reliable Dem presidential voting state 2) your primary is always so late anyway, that they are used to ignoring your delegates /snark


    You're not going to like this.... (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by goldberry on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 04:22:55 PM EST
    ...but Gary Shay is a Clinton Superdelegate.  No, I have no idea what he was thinking and I can't imagine that anyone on Clinton's side would approve of this.  
    The only thing I can think of is that group dynamics  had something to do with this.  If you're suddenly given a lot of power, it becomes suddenly incumbent to wield it.  Of course, he was not the only idiot in the room but it does sound as though it was forordained that Florida was going to lose its delegates through no fault of its own.  The caucus solution sounds like it was designed to provoke a rejection.  A mail in primary was a reasonable suggestion and Oregon does it all the time.  So, what gives?  
    I suspect a couple of things were going on here.  I think the caucuses were always planned to go for the anti-Clinton candidate, no matter who that turned out to be. (The Dean brothers were up to something, of that I have no doubt)  Then there was a presumption on Clinton's campaign that it would all be over by SuperTuesday with a clear frontrunner who would seat the delegates.  Over and over again, we come to people assuming something and doing the wrong thing thinking that they are immune to Murphy's law.  They are nearly always wrong.  

    And remember always, this was for the camera (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by Cream City on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 07:12:15 PM EST
    and it looks to me, from almost prepared speeches, a lot like a lot must have been pre-agreed in smoke-filled back rooms before lights, action, video.  For one, Obama super-delegate Dawson's motion was scripted ahead, clearly, and probably by or with assistance of staff -- and then shared ahead to have so many members ready to not express any surprise at such a draconian determination and to speak so non-"spontaneously" for it, such as Brazile.

    Also the 3 from FL (5.00 / 0) (#83)
    by ruffian on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 07:59:42 PM EST
    did not seem surprised, and their statements, in particular about the near impossibility of caucuses in FL, seemed designed to show that the month Dawson gave them to get a new plan together was really meaningless.

    Apparently (none / 0) (#7)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 04:13:01 PM EST
    a big mouth from California.

    You do realize that the GOP control the FL Governorship and 2/3s of the FL House and Senate?


    Yes I do (none / 0) (#19)
    by myiq2xu on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 04:25:46 PM EST
    The bill was stuffed down their throats by attaching it to a much needed and popular bill requiring paper readouts on voting machines.

    If the Florida Dems voted against it it would have passed anyway and they would have pissed off their constituents.

    They were between a rock and a hard place, and now they are blamed for not sacrificing themselves for nothing.


    If FL Dems had voted against a paper trail (none / 0) (#75)
    by Cream City on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 07:13:53 PM EST
    in voting after the 2000 debacle, they would have heard nasty words about it from far more than their constitents.  DKos alone would have exploded on it and would have meant many an email to FL Dems.

    Be careful of what you ask for... (none / 0) (#13)
    by macwiz12 on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 04:21:03 PM EST
    It is clear that this whole issue is all about POWER not the will of the people. If it was about the will of the people, it would have been resolved a long time ago, before the primaries in both Michigan (the state where I was born) and Florida, the state where I currently live.

    The DNC wanted to be in control and smash down on the those who could not submit to their will. They wanted to play games regarding the tradition of the Iowa caucuses and the New Hampshire primary, two events that have had ridiculous influence on the selection of the democratic party nominee. They wanted to make sure that these two states were treated specially but still wanted to avoid having them schedule their selection processes in 2007.

    They got what they wanted plus exactly what they didn't want. Unfortunately, what they didn't want may just end up as the worst possible result for the American people.

    I would at this point question (5.00 / 3) (#16)
    by andgarden on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 04:23:37 PM EST
    whether there really is any such thing as the DNC. It mostly just seems to be a collection of state representatives who are only interested in advancing their own interests.

    That's exactly what the DNC is (none / 0) (#76)
    by Cream City on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 07:17:21 PM EST
    and always has been when without firm leadership, preferably from some members who come to the fore and use staff correctly as support.  But it also has had firm leadership from staff in past . . . although one could say Brazile is asserting a certain firmness of leadership to get her way.

    One also can imagine that Brazile's threat to publicly walk out on the DNC and Dem convention has been voiced many times to these members before she felt so firmly ensconced as to go public with it, too.


    How humiliating (none / 0) (#79)
    by Stellaaa on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 07:23:35 PM EST
    I really found the whole thing a pointed public humiliation of the Florida Democratic party.  I could not imaging a more compelling case for a change of rules.  Yet, they chose, in an election year where we will need to be strategic, to humiliate a State Party chair and an ex party chair.  These people are tyrants.  There are ways to do these things where you do not humiliate people.  This is the kind of leadership I imagine we are in store with Obama.  Tragic.  I feel it i my bones.  

    Good points -- and a former DNC chair (none / 0) (#81)
    by Cream City on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 07:46:12 PM EST
    Don Fowler, also was humiliated in this -- the lone voice of reason you hear here.  He was DNC chair for Bill Clinton.  That tells you a lot about how all that this committee did was dissing Clintons, and experience, and all of this that was set up for filming was foreordained.

    I feel sick (5.00 / 0) (#84)
    by ruffian on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 08:06:14 PM EST
    But thanks for finding this video.

    I'm a Florida Dem and get fundraising letters from Karen Thurman.  I'm going to write her a nice letter with at least a small donation after seeing this.


    I am so sorry, sincerely (none / 0) (#88)
    by Cream City on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 10:14:25 PM EST
    and am signing every petition I see about this, and why in the world I -- thousands of miles from you -- would spend so much time watching this video and researching those in it and discussing it . . . well, anyone who lived through the 2000 election with all of you good Dem folks in Florida can only be sick with you.

    I think you may want to skip the forthcoming HBO movie about that, called Recount.  Every promo I see gives me that sick feeling in the pit of my stomach again.  But I somehow feel that I have to watch it to witness it again, to be outraged again.  So if it helps, go enjoy your famous sunshine when it's on and know that I'll be turning on the tv here in your stead. :-)

    Seriously, now -- when you write Ms. Thurman, feel free to let her know that she has others in her corner, such as this viewer, after seeing this video.  Any hardworking Dem volunteer such as she deserves so much better from the party.  I would hope that at least finding out that others are finding the video and seeing what she faced might give her a boost now.  I bet she could use it.


    Petitions (none / 0) (#91)
    by chopper on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 11:46:20 PM EST
    Hillary has a petition on her website and there's a petition at WWW.SEATOURDELEGATES.COM.

    You can leave a comment at that one.


    Yep, signed that one, too (nt) (none / 0) (#92)
    by Cream City on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 12:25:10 AM EST
    Left the party following the 2000 election (none / 0) (#17)
    by RalphB on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 04:24:41 PM EST
    and have never looked back.  This year makes me absolutely proud to not be a democrat.  The sheer incompetence and stupidity is amazing.  It's positively venal.

    I think (none / 0) (#20)
    by Step Beyond on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 04:26:39 PM EST
    that was David McDonald from Washington (state) who thought that EVERY politician had to fall in line.

    Yup, I think that's who it is (none / 0) (#22)
    by andgarden on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 04:27:49 PM EST
    I doubled checked and it is him (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by Step Beyond on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 04:39:05 PM EST
    Yep and here's my fav quote from him

    "I find the use of the word disenfranchisement to be  an overstatement."


    Ugh (none / 0) (#25)
    by andgarden on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 04:40:05 PM EST
    We've got some real rocket scientists on that committee, don't we?

    This is amazing (none / 0) (#31)
    by Stellaaa on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 05:05:45 PM EST
    How many will watch?  Instead the mantras will win over.  

    the Flash Counter (none / 0) (#38)
    by katiebird on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 05:14:58 PM EST
    is at 16 times.  But I don't know how it does the count.  I watched about 1/2 way, but just couldn't take it.

    Thank God for BTD -- this is the post of the day.


    84 now (none / 0) (#39)
    by Stellaaa on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 05:17:04 PM EST
    and now (none / 0) (#40)
    by andgarden on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 05:18:11 PM EST
    This program has been viewed 100 times.



    I went back to it 4 times yesterday (none / 0) (#77)
    by Cream City on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 07:20:31 PM EST
    myself, after first finding it (or was it Friday?  time flies when not having much fun) . . . so it only was watched a dozen times before that.  And that would suggest that few if any on the DNC's other committees such as credentials have seen in detail how this dirty deed was done.

    Let it go far and wide; let's send it to each of our state's super-delegates. . . ?


    HOW DO YOU GET IT TO PLAY? (none / 0) (#90)
    by litigatormom on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 11:20:52 PM EST
    I can't get the stupid thing to play for me.

    Make sure your Flash player (none / 0) (#97)
    by andgarden on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 07:07:32 AM EST
    is up to date and that you aren't using any ad-blocking software.

    install Flash (none / 0) (#98)
    by RonK Seattle on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 09:10:24 AM EST
    I had to uninstall and reinstall Adobe Flash, and I had to temporarily disable Norton antivirus to do that.

    It is fascinating (none / 0) (#41)
    by ruffian on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 05:18:12 PM EST
    I'm a geek for this stuff.

    The counter was at 70 when I started watching almost an hour ago.


    I guess that shows how long ago (none / 0) (#45)
    by katiebird on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 05:31:47 PM EST
    I loaded the page!  

    They wanted to shove a caucus (none / 0) (#42)
    by Stellaaa on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 05:18:37 PM EST
    down Florida's throat as far as I can tell.  

    I think so (5.00 / 3) (#49)
    by ruffian on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 05:52:34 PM EST
    Seems like the motion to impose the 100% loss of delegates unless a new plan was produced in 30 days was designed to do just that. It seems like the 3 from FL had gotten wind of that going in, and that is why Aussman took great pains in explaining why a caucus is not feasible in Florida.

    The look on Thurman's face as she gets up to leave is just heartbreaking.  I wish she had said 'Ya'll enjoy your lunch, now'.

    She has worked so hard to get this fixed.

    I hope Clinton's camp gets this video into the public conversation.  There is not a better case to be made for the unfairness of the FL situation.


    They will lose the GE (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by Stellaaa on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 05:58:00 PM EST
    I know now the SDs will make the wrong decision and we will lose.  Asta la bye bye.  

    Ha! Great point (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by ruffian on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 06:01:28 PM EST
    Looking at this brain trust, it is abundantly clear why the only Dem president in the last 28 years was Bill Clinton.  He alone was good enough to overcome their idiocy.  We're doomed.

    That white woman... (5.00 / 0) (#56)
    by Stellaaa on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 06:22:33 PM EST
    where was she from?  Did they not hear what the Florida Republicans did?  Have they no clue?  They totally were out maneuvered.  The zero tolerance methods of the Republican era applied to prove what?  Who were they punishing?  14 to 1 in the State legislature.  I will bang my head on the wall this whole evening.  

    Why did I watch this.  It was like when I watched the Reno Register interviews of Hillary and Obama, no way could anyone be for Obama if they watched both.  


    A fatal compunction to be well-informed (5.00 / 0) (#58)
    by ruffian on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 06:29:36 PM EST
    That's why you do this to yourself. A lot of us share it.

    Then it's hard to discuss (5.00 / 0) (#59)
    by Stellaaa on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 06:32:19 PM EST
    with people who speak in sound bites.  You need your computer, google and all the friends at TL to change their mind.  

    And note that the lone voice of reason (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by Cream City on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 07:23:32 PM EST
    there was Bill Clinton's DNC chair, Don Fowler.  The only voice of decency who said that Obama super-d Dawson's 100% motion was going too far and would have exactly the repercussions we have seen.  

    I've said it before, but a good group would have heeded the voice of experience of a former DNC chair.  He sounded so sad, as if he had to say it for the record and the sake of decency but knew he would not be heeded.  That means to me that the fix was in well before this show for the video camera.


    If diversity was a consideration (none / 0) (#44)
    by ruffian on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 05:31:11 PM EST
    as to which states got to go early, as this woman speaking at 1:12 is saying, why on earth would FL get less consideration than Nevada?  

    Florida (none / 0) (#47)
    by Step Beyond on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 05:36:49 PM EST
    Didn't apply to be an early state as the Dems couldn't move the primary date to become an early state. There's irony in there somewhere.

    Oh yeah (none / 0) (#62)
    by ruffian on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 06:45:31 PM EST
    I guess that's why Thurman stressed the point about when they learned that the Republicans were going to move the date.

    Boy, I don't know if the Republicans planned this whole episode step by step to screw the Dems, but it shure seems possible, right down to the timing.  I hate to give them that much credit, but maybe I should.


    the sad part is the (none / 0) (#65)
    by leis on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 06:55:13 PM EST
    DNC is finishing the job that the Republicans started.

    Naw (none / 0) (#67)
    by Step Beyond on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 06:57:51 PM EST
    I can honestly say that the Florida Repubs aren't that clever. They wanted to have more say in their own primary - which they got. Plus they like to look like they are doing things for the people, without actually doing things for the people. It was just an added bonus that the Dems decided to shoot themselves in the foot.

    DNC...DOA (none / 0) (#99)
    by txpolitico67 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 11:48:25 AM EST
    Well, all this time that I had been a Deaniac. I have had an epiphany:  maybe there was a good reason he didn't make it past the primaries back in 2004:  he's a dumba55.

    Live by the rules die by the rules. Wow, we are witnessing the spectacular crashing and burning of the Democratic party.  Kinda like watching a demolitions team ladling a building with explosives to blow it up.  Brazile and company are the demolitions team, while the party is the building about to be blown to smithereens.

    Going to be pretty hard to pick up the pieces, because they will be too many and hard to put back together.

    But hey, Brazile wants to send a message.  Guess what? So will millions of voters in November.

    Obama and their party are TOAST.  Their own fault.  

    Okay we know, now what are we going to do about it (none / 0) (#100)
    by fctchekr on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:17:58 PM EST
    I'm probably a lot older than most of you, and have to admit that I saw this coming way back ... It is not in my nature to go with the flow, when I know a crime has been committed. Afer all, I'm not writing a book and don't need to resign from an intra-party post, but I'm also not going to support an illegit candidate who has no chance unless he wins the General through some means other than true representation of the people. The irony is stunning! This is where partisanship and I go our different ways: I view both choices in Nov as unacceptable.....

    Hillary 2008