Indiana: Former Obama Supporter Stumps for Hillary

Alice Palmer is campaigning for Hillary Clinton today in Indiana:

Joining Chelsea Clinton and other women leaders to campaign for Hillary Clinton today is Alice Palmer, the former state senator who picked Obama to be her successor back in the mid-90s. When she tried to reclaim her spot, though, Obama got her booted from the ballot.

Her story is an interesting one, since it shows how Obama plays hardball.

Fresh from his work as a civil rights lawyer and head of a voter registration project that expanded access to the ballot box, Obama launched his first campaign for the Illinois Senate saying he wanted to empower disenfranchised citizens.

But in that initial bid for political office, Obama quickly mastered the bare-knuckle arts of Chicago electoral politics. His overwhelming legal onslaught signaled his impatience to gain office, even if that meant elbowing aside an elder stateswoman like Palmer.


A close examination of Obama's first campaign clouds the image he has cultivated throughout his political career: The man now running for president on a message of giving a voice to the voiceless first entered public office not by leveling the playing field, but by clearing it.

Bottom line: How did he win his first Senate seat? By challenging his opponents' right to be on the ballot and succeeding, so he could run unopposed.

As to Alice Palmer:

Palmer served the district in the Illinois Senate for much of the 1990s. Decades earlier, she was working as a community organizer in the area when Obama was growing up in Hawaii and Indonesia. She risked her safe seat to run for Congress and touted Obama as a suitable successor, according to news accounts and interviews.

But when Palmer got clobbered in that November 1995 special congressional race, her supporters asked Obama to fold his campaign so she could easily retain her state Senate seat.

Obama not only refused to step aside, he filed challenges that nullified Palmer's hastily gathered nominating petitions, forcing her to withdraw.

"I liked Alice Palmer a lot. I thought she was a good public servant," Obama said. "It was very awkward. That part of it I wish had played out entirely differently."

He took four candidates off the ballot with his challenges:

"He wondered if we should knock everybody off the ballot. How would that look?" said Ronald Davis, the paid Obama campaign consultant whom Obama referred to as his "guru of petitions."

In the end, Davis filed objections to all four of Obama's Democratic rivals at the candidate's behest.

How he later justified it:

he defended his use of ballot maneuvers: "If you can win, you should win and get to work doing the people's business."

This is a unity candidate and candidate for a new kind of politics in Washington?

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    Wow (5.00 / 5) (#1)
    by abfabdem on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 12:27:56 PM EST
    I live in Illinois and know this story.  Alice Palmer was beloved by her constituents. He stepped over her to get what he wanted.  The fact that she is campaigning for Hilliary is HUGE!!!

    Please keep an eye and ear out for (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by FlaDemFem on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 12:48:15 PM EST
    the effect of her support and whether the story of the real Obama is taking hold. Thanks in advance!!!

    More info on Dr. Palmer (5.00 / 8) (#21)
    by Cream City on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 12:51:56 PM EST
    is here -- and I read that she ran for Congress but was beaten by none other than Jesse Jackson, Jr., Obama's campaign co-chair?  He who really ratcheted up the racism charges against Bill Clinton and claimed personal knowledge that Hillary Clinton had not cried for Katrina victims.  Oh, when what goes around then comes around, politics is interesting.

    How'd she do during the next election? (none / 0) (#19)
    by CLancy on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 12:50:19 PM EST
    I assume she ran to regain her seat against the interloper? Right?

    Why would you assume (none / 0) (#61)
    by Cream City on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 01:49:46 PM EST
    she would have as little class as does the interloper?  Why?  Please explain -- as your comments throughout here suggest you have some sort of odd agenda.  Don't be like your candidate; just come out with it.

    Obama knee-capped Palmer permanently (none / 0) (#132)
    by 1950democrat on Sat May 03, 2008 at 01:15:35 PM EST
    Obama's action knocked her out of politics permanently. It amounted to accusing her of 'fraud'. The fact is, everyone's signatures were collected under 1995 lists. As soon as the city completed a purged list (removing 15,000 names iirc), Obama challenged their signatures under the new list. (His own signatures probably wouldn't have passed it either.)

    So instead of his faction having Palmer in her safe seat and Obama in another seat through her support, Palmer was out and Obama soon discarded her seat to run for higher office himself -- which he lost too. So they were both out, and the safe seat lost to their faction.

    Most of Obama's 'wins' have been gained by PREVENTING the voters from voting or being counted; knocking opponents off the ballot; opponents divorce records unsealed; FL/MI not being counted; caucuses that exclude many voters....


    Obama Is A Backstabbing Ninny....so he and his (none / 0) (#45)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 01:22:56 PM EST
    campaign for state senate feel it is okay to do anything you need to do to win, but it is NOT okay for Hillary.  This is so freaking typical of Obama's rationale.

    No insults or name calling please (none / 0) (#94)
    by Marvin42 on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 03:14:14 PM EST
    Let's not sink to the negative vitriol employed by some Sen Obama supporters. Lead by example I say.

    I've known this story for some time (5.00 / 4) (#2)
    by Dave B on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 12:30:16 PM EST
    The blogosphere defends it as, well...  Those are the roolz.  Sound familiar?

    Palmer has been on the stump before? (none / 0) (#64)
    by Cream City on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 01:51:25 PM EST
    I hadn't seen those stories.  She seemed to be staying low-profile, other than being in the audience; I recall that at an event in Iowa.

    The more I know the more I don't like (5.00 / 6) (#6)
    by BarnBabe on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 12:34:24 PM EST
    I had heard about Alice Palmer but I had not realized he did the same to all the other candidates. This is more about BHO's character and hidden agenda. I hope she goes on some TV shows like Today which a lot of people watch or Morning Joe. Not everyone is reading a blog or watching MSNBC. You go girls!

    This is why Obama keeps whining to Hillary (5.00 / 8) (#17)
    by FlaDemFem on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 12:46:29 PM EST
    to drop out. He isn't used to having opponents. Or having to campaign hard to get the job. I really wonder how much research they did into Hillary's nomination paperwork. Thank God she is a wonk and would have made sure it was all complete and properly done.

    Knock knock, who's there? Karma. Karma who. (5.00 / 10) (#8)
    by diplomatic on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 12:37:44 PM EST

    lol! (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by Joan in VA on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 12:40:33 PM EST
    Question on pledge delegates and PV (5.00 / 3) (#11)
    by Saul on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 12:39:24 PM EST
    Where would we be today in the delegate count if all the incidents, Wright, Typically white person, Michelle's comets, Bitter controversy, and Ayers controversy had all come out in early January of this year.  Maybe they need to take a poll on all the Super Tuesday Obama victories that would ask the following:

     If you knew about all the controversies  that exist today on Obama back then before you voted on Super Tuesday  would you have voted for Obama?

    I have been wishing for such a poll. How and (none / 0) (#15)
    by Joan in VA on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 12:44:07 PM EST
    who could do it?

    I have too. (none / 0) (#49)
    by Cheryl on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 01:29:34 PM EST
    Remember the website in 2004 with all the photos of people holding "I'm Sorry" signs? There were thousands of these apologies to the world for Bush winning a second term.

    I've been longing for a site where people hold signs declaring, "I'm sorry I voted for Obama," or "Obama Buyer's Remorse."


    it's like the t-shirt I have (none / 0) (#51)
    by stillife on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 01:32:41 PM EST
    from 2004: Don't blame me, I voted for Kerry!

    My 2004 tee shirt says (none / 0) (#66)
    by FlaDemFem on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 01:56:44 PM EST
    "I survived...and then lists the hurricanes. Had two of them, Frances and Jeanne, come sit on me for several days. Miserable. We did get an absentee ballot for PA after the DVM messed up our voter registrations. Fortunately, we still owned land in PA and had not been gone too long to vote absentee. But 2004 is more the year I spent ducking hurricanes than anything else. LOL

    Ft Pierce area? (none / 0) (#81)
    by BarnBabe on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 02:25:00 PM EST
    My aunt and cousins are in that area. Friend in Pt St Lucie. And I grew up in Ft. Laud. So PA-Fla connection also.

    No, NCentral FL (none / 0) (#83)
    by FlaDemFem on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 02:27:42 PM EST
    about 1 1/2 hours north of Ocala. Farm country.

    Ha, See I am the opposite of you (5.00 / 1) (#88)
    by BarnBabe on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 02:41:54 PM EST
    I live in Penna and own a few acres in Ocala. My brother went to U of F and I loved the Gainsville area. So I own land in the country area and live in one of those small country towns in Penna.

    It is nice to see Alice Palmer stumping with Hillary. All you ever hear is former Clinton, etc. Alice's story tells the other side of Obama. The 'I will have no competition' side. Even for US Senator,against Ryan

    Barack Obama's backers emailed reporters about the divorce controversy,
    Read Wikipedi-0Jack Ryan

    The interesting thing about that mailing is (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by FlaDemFem on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 02:55:44 PM EST
    that the records of that divorce were sealed. I wonder who in the Obama campaign got the media to demand their unsealing. I read elsewhere that it was his campaign that got the records unsealed, but I don't have the link. New style politics, my ass. Another woman under the bus in pursuit of Obama's ambitions. I am a fan of Jeri Ryan's, both for Voyager and Shark. And I don't appreciate her private troubles being made ammo for Obama. I am sure she doesn't either.

    It was the Chicago Way at work (none / 0) (#97)
    by Cream City on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 03:16:43 PM EST
    said a ChiTrib story I read.  The reporters seemed to widely know but could not reveal who got into sealed records, but it was between the lines.

    see NYT (none / 0) (#133)
    by 1950democrat on Sat May 03, 2008 at 01:21:51 PM EST
    NYT said the TRib reporter who wrote the divorce stories said Axelrod had 'aggressively pushed' the stories; didn't quite say he had pushed getting the records unsealed. But according to wikipedia, one set of records was unsealed by a lawsuit by the Tribune.

    Considering Obama's style with Palmer and now with FL/MI etc, going after divorce records through sneaky legal maneuvers fits right in.

    He'll do anything to keep from having voters decide.


    I think he has wanted to be president (5.00 / 3) (#20)
    by Joan in VA on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 12:50:32 PM EST
    since kindergarten! For real! Every choice he has made in his life seems to further his political ambition. Schools, jobs, church etc. You have to give it up to him for staying focused!

    Well, Hillary Has Been No Slouch, but here is... (5.00 / 2) (#48)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 01:28:34 PM EST
    ...the difference.  Hillary actually follows through on what she says she will do and is almost always involved in projects helping the underdog.  She does not bail on her posts to run to further her political agenda.  She finishes a job and then moves on (obviously with one exception, if she becomes president), but Obama just steps in and out of his posts, never finishing anything and always working on his self-serving agenda.  I have yet to see one whit of compassion from Obama.  He is one of the coldest fish I have ever seen on the political scene.  This story about Alice Palmer only confirms what I already knew.

    I'm pretty sure her running for Pres (none / 0) (#57)
    by nycstray on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 01:38:25 PM EST
    was used against her when she ran for re-election. Obviously, it didn't matter to NYers, lol!~ She's a hard worker and it's known here.

    Hillary kept her promise (5.00 / 1) (#125)
    by nemo52 on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 07:42:49 PM EST
    to serve out at least one full term as Senator.  She has done a great job for NYS.  Obama reneged on his promise to serve out his term as Senator.  Just sayin'

    Unfortunately, he saw those jobs as (4.00 / 1) (#27)
    by FlaDemFem on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 12:58:11 PM EST
    stepping stones, not something he had to give time and attention to. If he had done a better job in any of the offices that he has held, people would be less cynical about his resume. He didn't do the work, he just used the office as a stepping stone. The same thing has happened with his job as a US Sentaor. He served ONE YEAR before starting his run for president. He is a user and an opportunist who hasn't bothered to do the work in the offices he has held. What makes anyone think he will be any different as President??

    The time was right (none / 0) (#36)
    by CLancy on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 01:06:08 PM EST
    I would love for Obama to have more experience, but can't fault him for running this year. Everybody and their brother wanted to run this year (except for Gore for some reason). In addition to that, his personal appeal would only be hindered by added years in the senate (and the thousands of votes that go with it), why not run? Obviously, so far, getting in "early" has proven to be very wise of him.

    The reason Clinton & Obama are fighting so hard is that both know that a perfect storm is brewing against the GOP. This year, anyone can beat them . . . it's practically a gimme. I know a lot of Dems don't like to say things like that, thinking that it's unwise to count the GOP out, but it's true. A corpse with a D next to their name could beat McCain in 2008.


    Yeah, right.. more time in the Senate (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by FlaDemFem on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 01:27:43 PM EST
    his personal appeal would only be hindered by added years in the senate (and the thousands of votes that go with it)

    He doesn't get to vote "present" in the Senate, so I would cut those "thousands" down to a few hundred that aren't indicative of any strong stance on anything. That pretty much describes his political career so far. Why expect that to change with more time?


    Obama's church was a political move (none / 0) (#24)
    by dem08 on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 12:55:47 PM EST
    to make him president? is that a serious argument? Obama chose his church because he knew how many white people loved the Black Church in America?

    obama's church (5.00 / 4) (#33)
    by Kensdad on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 01:01:58 PM EST
    obama chose a church with 8000 voters in the district where he ran for office...  interpret that as you will...

    Michelle & Political Ambition Helped Choose (none / 0) (#50)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 01:32:03 PM EST
    That is weird...so if he gets to the WH (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by FlaDemFem on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 02:57:53 PM EST
    we will have a president who is under a death sentence in the Muslim world for being an apostate Muslim?? Oooops!!! That should go over great with the Saudis, and the rest of the ME.  

    yes, we should continue (none / 0) (#92)
    by riddlerandy on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 03:08:25 PM EST
    to base our policies and politics on what makes the saudis happy.  

    It may cause them to break off (none / 0) (#95)
    by FlaDemFem on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 03:15:15 PM EST
    diplomatic relations, and trade relations, with us. They cannot, by Islamic law, have any sort of relationship with an apostate. Doesn't matter who he is or what job he has. That is the problem. It would, however, put us on the road to being green much quicker. When there is no oil coming in, solar and wind look really good. I live in FL, where I don't need heating oil. How about you?

    As it will snow again here (none / 0) (#98)
    by Cream City on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 03:21:18 PM EST
    this weekend in Wisconsin, where just a few days ago we almost had to turn on the air conditioner -- I think we need our energy sources to survive.  I do my part by moving where I don't have to drive . . . which nicely spares me from scraping ice off windshields, too.  Enough work scraping it off our sidewalks, since I also won't do a snowblower.

    But as that also means our growing season is miniscule, and I'm rather fond of fruit and veggies and not of pickling them, I'd rather like to keep the refrigerated trucks and train cars fueled to feed me, thanksforasking. Yikes, what an angle -- an apostate candidate.  Of course, the Cat'lics were going to excommunicate Kerry, too!:-)


    Yes, but Catholic heads of state would not (none / 0) (#103)
    by FlaDemFem on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 03:53:36 PM EST
    have been forbidden to deal with him by religious law. That is the big difference. The big oil producers are governed by people who put religious law above all others. So, a president who is seen as a Muslim apostate by Muslim heads of state would be in big trouble. None of those countries would do business with him. Period.

    Ditto, California, all good (none / 0) (#104)
    by riddlerandy on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 04:21:19 PM EST
    Your knowledge of Islamic law (none / 0) (#131)
    by left is right on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 10:01:42 PM EST
    ... is awesomely lacking.  Only an insane Muslim would consider Obama an apostate.  You cannot reject a religion you never embraced.  While children of Muslim men are traditionally raised Muslim, Obama was not.  If children are not raised in the faith, they cannot apostatize the faith.

    I am not an Obama supporter, but I find the dragging up of Islam and apostasy in attempts to make him unelectable abhorrent.  I don't know how many Muslim circles you belong to, but Obama has widespread support with Muslims, and many Muslims in the Middle East and North Africa actually do think Obama may mean change (I think they are delusional). I am in a minority when I speak of my support for Clinton.


    Yes (none / 0) (#70)
    by IzikLA on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 02:03:05 PM EST
    He actually said as much in the Compassion Forum on CNN.  Of course, none of the media picked up on it.

    Karma's a b*tch (5.00 / 2) (#26)
    by stillife on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 12:57:51 PM EST

    Hillary is no angel (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by Kensdad on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 12:58:26 PM EST
    but at least Hillary doesn't going around pretending that she's not a politician.  obama's hypocrisy factor is soaring off the charts...

    that's true (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by kempis on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 03:23:33 PM EST
    I've thought for several months now that at some point the discrepancy between Obama's noble rhetoric and his politics-as-usual is going to hurt him.

    We expect Hillary to fight hard. Kitchen sink? Hell yeah. The table and fridge, too. And she doesn't pretend otherwise.

    Obama, on the other hand, claims to be above the fray even while he's tossing a handful of mud Hillary's way. ("I was an activist for the poor on the streets of Chicago when you were a corporate lawyer for WalMart!" "I don't take oil money!" PACS give me hives!" etc.) It's all utter crap, and yet he continues to misrepresent himself as Mr. Clean.

    That's going to hurt him in the general. It's one of the things that cause me to switch my allegiance from Obama to Hillary.


    THANK YOU... (5.00 / 2) (#54)
    by jeffhas on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 01:37:38 PM EST
    For finally putting this story to the forefront - and I think following so many gaffes Sen. Obama has had, this could be another knock against his 'different kind of politician' mantra... but with a misogynistic twist.... Hopefully the MSM will pick it up.

    This is the story that first troubled be about Obama.  That the woman who mentored him would be stabbed in the back... She recommended him for that seat with the understanding she was trying to win another Repub seat for the State Dems.

    There would have been plenty of time for him to be rewarded for his help, but he chose bare-knuckle politics against his own mentor - a woman.

    Hillary mentored him (none / 0) (#63)
    by stillife on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 01:50:03 PM EST
    in the U.S. Senate.

    Seems to be a pattern with him.


    gee, this sounds kind of like (5.00 / 2) (#74)
    by cpinva on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 02:08:40 PM EST
    he defended his use of ballot maneuvers: "If you can win, you should win and get to work doing the people's business."

    doing anything to win.

    now where have i heard that before?

    Don't tell me (none / 0) (#126)
    by nemo52 on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 07:44:03 PM EST
    he's got a kitchen sink?

    This is why I don't believe the AA voters (5.00 / 0) (#75)
    by felizarte on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 02:11:38 PM EST
    will stay away as a block of voters if Hillary is the nominee.  Obama supporters are using this so that if Plan A which is Barack as a nominee, their Plan B, Barack as VP will at least come true.  Fortunately, Barack himself and his big supporters like Pelosi has scratched that themselves.  And I am glad. His demonstrated character will only drag Hillary down.

    Fantastic news (5.00 / 0) (#118)
    by karen for Clinton on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:00:15 PM EST
    Back in January when I was making up my mind who to support, I read the Alice Palmer story in the Chicago Tribune - "Obama knows his way around a ballot" - here: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-070403obama-ballot,1,57567.story

    I felt this story way deep and in a way I couldn't shake. I later heard she was supporting him anyway and wondered how she could.

    Is Hazel Johnson still supporting the sham?  

    You were misinformed; Palmer has backed (none / 0) (#129)
    by Cream City on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 08:11:23 PM EST
    Clinton even in the Iowa campaign, when she showed up in the audience.  That she did not do more before this, refraining from discussing the painful past with Obama, may have been protecting herself or protecting him, as they are both important in Chicago's black community and politics.

    That she is willing now makes me wonder what recent events changed her mind. . . .


    Time is Hilary's best friend (4.57 / 7) (#5)
    by Saul on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 12:34:06 PM EST
    As time goes on we learn more and more of who Obama really is.

    The (4.00 / 1) (#13)
    by sas on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 12:41:54 PM EST
    more we learn the less we like......

    if he wants to play hardball OK

    Hillary can play hardball too

    Trouble Is, She Gets Called On It, He Doesn't (5.00 / 0) (#53)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 01:35:50 PM EST
    And then the spinning begins about how ruthless she is, blah, blah, blah.

    Yep. He's practicing the "new politics" (5.00 / 0) (#96)
    by kempis on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 03:15:27 PM EST
    ...where you push the pedal to the metal and run over your mentor, your "typical white" granny who raised you, etc.

    Good for Alice Palmer. I'm glad she's doing this--for herself.


    Very huge and a great antidote against (3.66 / 3) (#3)
    by athyrio on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 12:32:16 PM EST
    the "race card" they keep accusing Clinton of playing....The AA community are not sheep....I think the race card was recently played because he was leaking support in the AA community....

    Exactly (5.00 / 0) (#7)
    by abfabdem on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 12:34:38 PM EST
    a black gal I work with says she is insulted people just assume she for Obama as she personally thinks he would make a bad president.  They get very uncomfortable when she says she does not support him.

    I never bought that phony 'truism' either (5.00 / 2) (#25)
    by Ellie on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 12:55:52 PM EST
    African-American voters, or any other "special interest" [fill in your attribute here] aren't like budgies, who, when looking in a mirror, see another chirping countenance think they're seeing another budgie.

    Haven't black voters been in the 90%-ish range for Dems for ages? (My voting lifetime, anyway.)

    If they DID suddenly skew to Obama on the promise of having some political power, frankly I wouldn't blame them or guilt them out of doing so. Just read the Conyers report on the suppression and depression of the black Democratic vote that the CBC fought tooth and nail just to have attached to the congressional record.

    And FWIW, as someone who's too Special and Interesting to count as a full, sentient person to No-Choice, "pro"-life deadbeats that the Dems sold out MY rights to bring forth new "talents" like Obama, I don't think women are interchangable empty masks to slap onto a "brand" either. I'm not buying that sh!t.

    Of course, I could just be dizzy and cranky from trying to come up with what, in Obama's own words, a Typical White Woman is, ie, outsides decidedly blurry but the inherent racism allegedly always coming through in full bloom.


    If AA's Think Obama Will Take Up Their (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 01:37:57 PM EST
    cause if they win; I think they had better think again.  He has basically denied his "blackness" til it was a benefit to him.

    if this means anything his HQ is filled with (none / 0) (#60)
    by thereyougo on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 01:49:06 PM EST
    whites average age 20 something YOs, I didn't see any AAs, except the security around him. DU has the link, from a Kaite Curic report.

    Ya, hurry up and quit Hillary. No more voting, times up. Just so they don't see who I really yam.


    When Hillary Clinton ran for Senator (1.00 / 3) (#32)
    by dem08 on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 01:01:50 PM EST
    in New York State, what was her experience before that? She was First Lady in Washington for 8 years, lived in Arkansas for some decade and a half, lived in Washington in the 70's, went to school in Massachusetts and Connecticut, and grew up in Illinois.

    Obama ran against Palmer. At least he lived in Illinois.

    He did? (5.00 / 4) (#34)
    by Kensdad on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 01:04:42 PM EST
    i thought that he lived in Hawaii, Indonesia, New York, and Massachusetts...

    Don't forget (5.00 / 4) (#37)
    by stillife on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 01:06:18 PM EST
    his foreign policy experience in Indonesia.

    As opposed to Hilary's (none / 0) (#87)
    by riddlerandy on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 02:39:18 PM EST
    experience in Kosovo

    Well, at least she got out of the airports (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by Cream City on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 05:56:35 PM EST
    of Europe, unlike Obama, who just padded his resume with chairing the Senate committee overseeing the area but never went there -- nor even could find the time to call a meeting of the committee because he was so busy campaigning already.  

    And then the campaigning was so tiring that he took off a week under the war zone beach umbrellas of the Virgin Islands.  Wonder if that week he could have been campaigning in Pennsylvania could have helped narrow the margin to, oh, 8 points or so?


    And we voted for her (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by stillife on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 01:05:55 PM EST
    and she proved herself.

    Obama has yet to prove himself - and he's running for the highest office in the U.S.!  

    I guess if you want to make living in a jurisdiction a major qualification, any U.S. resident is a suitable candidate for President.


    And we're a pretty tough crowd ;) (5.00 / 2) (#40)
    by nycstray on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 01:10:58 PM EST

    I remember thinking back in the day.... (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by thereyougo on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 01:56:22 PM EST
    about Hillary having just left the WH after her husband's being impeached -and acquital. Yet, she managed to work with that hostile Republican Congress under that horrible (the)hammer, Tom Delay.

    She can work with the devil I thought if she can work with him.  She has provided NY with LOTS of money post 9/11. She's done herself and NY proud.

    Unlike Obama, who got credit for legislation in the State House after his colleagues did the grunt work behind him and he got the glory.                    

    No wonder he's tired of campaigning, hell he's had to break a sweat, aw poor him.


    I am in WNY (none / 0) (#52)
    by dem08 on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 01:34:00 PM EST
    remember Hillary's pledge to bring "200,000 new jobs" to WNY? She failed by OVER 200,000 because we lost jobs.

    If we New Yorkers are so tough, why did Al D'Amato represent us for two terms? Why did George Pataki win two terms as Governor?

    Neither Obama nor McCain nor Hillary nor any Senator has any reason to crow. Since 1972, we have become a country of and for the wealthy.

    The sad thing about the viciousness of the Democratic fight is that the stakes are so small: a good appointment here and there, and a good idea here and there, always underfunded and apologetic. No Politician, not Obama not Hillary will say "Everyone who works has the right to a Living Wage, Good Benefits (including paid vacations and health care), and Union Representation."


    Yeah, I remember that pledge. (none / 0) (#69)
    by Iphie on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 02:00:55 PM EST
    I also remember that, as she has said herself, she thought that Al Gore would be president, and thought she would have a competent partner in the WH to help pass the sort of initiatives that would have helped with those 200,000 jobs. Not everything is within her control, and some obstacles (Bush) are bigger than others.

    Gee, maybe because the state has (none / 0) (#80)
    by nycstray on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 02:20:54 PM EST
    actually been red for a long time? If we're lucky, the Senate will turn blue for the first time in how many years?

    I don't know what happened in WNY, but those earmarks she gets ridiculed for actually benefited us. She does what she can and works hard at it. Seems the only time Obama breaks a sweat is when he's playin' hoops.


    You must be an academic -- (none / 0) (#127)
    by nemo52 on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 07:46:17 PM EST
    That's the context in which I always hear that comment, "the fights are so vicious because the stakes are so small"!

    she lived and WORKED in Arkansas, etc (none / 0) (#38)
    by nycstray on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 01:08:33 PM EST
    you may want to check her resume, not just her home addresses.

    And she was re-elected here in NYS by a nice number.

    Yeah, so Obama did live in Ill. and managed to get some voters registered before hand . . . You may want to check Palmer's experience at the time compared to his . . .


    Palmer lost a Special Election (1.00 / 1) (#62)
    by dem08 on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 01:50:03 PM EST
    for Mel Reynolds seat. Obama had run for her seat while she ran for Reynolds. When Palmer lost, Obama continued in the race and challenged her petitions. Her petitions were defective and she resigned.

    and to repeat, Hillary won in her newly adopted state, my state (I voted for her twice). I suppose if California had a retiring Republican Senator we would be talking about her residence in Bel Aire (MA, it would be Brookline).

    Hillary like Al D'Amato was indeed reelected easily. D'Amato was an embarrassing idiot and a Republican.

    To say you will bring 200 thousand new jobs and to have the area lose jobs should have given her opponent an opening, but I bet most of remember the Nassau County DA who ran against her in the Primary more than we remember what Bowling Pin the Republicans set up for her to mow down in 2006.


    i'm sorry (5.00 / 1) (#106)
    by boredmpa on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 04:25:32 PM EST
    but if you're going to correct the facts, then you should have the whole facts. he challenged over 2000 signatures and removed 4 people from the ballot.  you're trying to make it sound like this was some crazy edge case.

    don't be sorry (none / 0) (#110)
    by dem08 on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 05:12:20 PM EST
    there are two issues.

    One, did Obama betray Alice Palmer? I say, no, because she ran for one office, lost and then wanted her old spot back. She didn't get the right amount of signatures.

    Two, Is Obama someone who has used the party rules to help his career, yes. You have to get signatures and the signatures have to be valid. You probably don't care, but Bill Clinton used ballot challenges against opponents also. It is fair because often the number of signatures is not equal to the legal requirement.

    Bill Clinton ran as an agent of change and called for new politics.

    Hillary's supporters always get into this formula: yes, "The Clinton's are [and then they name something Obama is doing or trait he has], but Obama is bad because everyone knows you cannot count on The Clinton's are to be praised because they don't pretend to be someone anyone would look up to."

    And there is a very good chance The Clinton Restoration is a few months away, so we can look forward to a return to the Clinton Way.


    but (none / 0) (#113)
    by boredmpa on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 05:47:13 PM EST
    he successfully challenged ~2000 signatures, no idea how many he failed to successfully challenge, and most candidates had approx double the required signatures.  The normal model is 60-80% over the qualifying requirement...and palmer had more than double if I recall.  It seems very shady and brings up issues: if candidate X had $20000 to spend defending and reverifying and sitting before the judge during the challenge of say 4000 signatures, would candidate X have remained on the ballot?  Did candidate X even find out, or was this a last minute deal?

    It doesn't matter if it was "legal" it matters if it was within the realm of "acceptable" democratic behavior and if it was "ethical."  Failing either of those tests means Obama flunks at leadership of a country that has allowed its executive to become too powerful, allows disenfranchisement of voters, and provides plenty of "legal" methods for destroying opponents that don't fit within the ethical idea of what this nation should be.

    Ballot signature verification is normal in some states (automatic for some things in CA), but 4 people all with nearly double the required  signatures challenged?  Bah.  It takes big cajones to look at a 1500 signatures and go, "we can knock that down to 650"


    And yes, it was a last-minute deal (none / 0) (#117)
    by Cream City on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:00:13 PM EST
    as I read in one of the Trib stories that it was so well strategized that Obama and his troops marched in all ready for the coup on the last day to do so or almost that, leaving no time for Palmer and the others to respond . . . or to investigate his paperwork, with which problems later were found.

    Regarding the betrayal... (none / 0) (#119)
    by jeffhas on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:42:05 PM EST
    Alice Palmer recommended him for her old seat - while she pursued the other seat at State Dems requests.  He was supposed to be a place holder just in case she couldn't win the other seat which had been a Republican seat that was thought by the state leadership to be vulnerable.

    I'm not questioning whether what he did was legal - he got a judge to side with him.... but is does not change the perception that he screwed over someone who had been trying to look out for him and reward him.

    That is betrayal.  The fact that she was a woman is of note... and the idea that he says he is a 'new kind of politician' after having conducted his very first race this way destroys any credibility he might have had.


    yeah she wanted those jobs but she (none / 0) (#68)
    by thereyougo on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 01:59:43 PM EST
    answered that in one of the debates that Al Gore had lost to GWB, and there went her expectations.



    Hillary, unlike D'Amato, had to (none / 0) (#82)
    by nycstray on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 02:26:06 PM EST
    win the Republican votes.

    you made the same point twice (none / 0) (#130)
    by Jeralyn on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 09:38:28 PM EST
    it's chattering after this and will be deleted. Move on to the topic being discussed and it's not jobs in New York.

    negates his (none / 0) (#4)
    by DJ on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 12:33:08 PM EST
    no more politics as usual line

    Heh, she's an Indy gal ta boot ;) (none / 0) (#9)
    by nycstray on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 12:38:40 PM EST

    Wouldn't it be better to state why . . . (none / 0) (#16)
    by CLancy on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 12:44:31 PM EST
    . . . Palmer was booted? You give no indication if she was booted for a legitimate reason or not? It seems that she would only be disqualified if she for some reason did not follow the correct procedures for gaining access to the ballot in the first place. If this is the case, why blame Obama for her mistake?

    These things happen all the time. In my county, more than half the people who apply for ballot access never actually make the ballot. There are many reasons for this, but it's usually because they failed to get enough qualifying signatures on there petitions. There are rules for a reason. If Palmer (and the other four) failed to follow them, why blame Obama?

    the incumbent (5.00 / 2) (#22)
    by Nasarius on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 12:52:53 PM EST
    And all other candidates got disqualified, yes, for lack of valid signatures. Of course Obama was well within his legal rights to challenge it, but it's also incredibly dirty politics. Getting the incumbent kicked off the primary ballot is absurd.

    disqualifications (1.00 / 0) (#30)
    by CLancy on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 12:59:38 PM EST
    Why is it absurd? Qualify that. If she failed to legally qualify for the ballot, her opponents are simply supposed to defer to her? That doesn't make much sense.

    Palmer had big ambitions herself as she wanted to run for Congress. She seemed to pass the torch on to Obama, then when things didn't work out so well for her, she tried to take back what she felt was rightfully hers. Doing as much, it sounds like she tried to force her way on to the ballot with bad signatures. Obama, naturally was taken aback by this and rightfully challenged her on it.


    You don't (none / 0) (#41)
    by Eleanor A on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 01:14:35 PM EST
    You don't know much about politics, do you?  Particularly state politics.  On the state level, legislators don't get jack done without support from their fellow lawmakers.  Stuff like this is just Not Done; but what Palmer should have done is arranged for her buddies in the legislature to kill every piece of legislation Obama put out and then run somebody against him next election.

    Of course, this probably being a safe Democratic district and Palmer being a woman, she probably didn't get the kind of support from the local infrastructure that would have been offered to a male colleague.

    It's really a problem.  I personally live in a state where a full 17% of the state legislature is female, and there are only a handful of African American women involved in politics at all.


    you win a general election (none / 0) (#58)
    by Nasarius on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 01:42:06 PM EST
    And the party still requires you to collect signatures to run for re-nomination? That's absurd.

    Obama didn't have to make the legal challenges. He could have just let the primary run fairly with everyone else on the ballot. Obviously they didn't take the rules (which are absurd, in this case) seriously enough.


    The rules apply to everyone (none / 0) (#105)
    by riddlerandy on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 04:24:13 PM EST
    if you are incumbent and can't figure out what you need to do to get on the ballot, you aren't going to get any sympathy from me.  It's not rocket science.

    Obama can no longer say or imply (none / 0) (#71)
    by thereyougo on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 02:03:38 PM EST
    he's any different than a DC politician with this info now out there.

    Unfortunately (none / 0) (#77)
    by IzikLA on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 02:14:37 PM EST
    This kind of information has been out there for a long time.  The problem is that no one wants to report on it.

    True. But I read that (5.00 / 2) (#23)
    by Cream City on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 12:54:36 PM EST
    there also were problems with Obama's paperwork, as it's just endemic in Chicago -- so the ploy was to pull the technicality check at the last minute, so that none of the four would be ready to do the same to him.  

    Sure, it's brilliant politics.  But this is Obama, so does it measure up to his claim of "new politics"?  That's the problem for him.


    looks to me like it was gotcha politix. (none / 0) (#72)
    by thereyougo on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 02:06:27 PM EST
    Dr. Palmer didn't think he'd pull a stunt like he did when she asked him for her seat again.

    She scrambled to gather signatures as a result. It was an obvious power grab on his part


    and Palmer really took herself (none / 0) (#67)
    by dem08 on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 01:56:58 PM EST
    out of the race. She ran for Mel Reynolds open House of Representative seat and lost to Jesse Jackson, Jr. in a Special Election.

    Then she returned and quickly tried to get Obama to drop out. She reached for a higher seat, lost, and then did not get the correct signatures.

    Maybe Chicago voters should NOT have voted for Jesse Jackson, Jr. Take that up with them. (She lost big.) But she should have at least considered that once she gave up one seat to pursue another, that there was a risk that the people seeeking it wouldn't go home. And getting valid signatures is not that difficult.

    Palmer wanted it both ways (hold my seat while I get something better), and she miscalculated. I feel sorry for her that Obama is so ungentlemeanly and agree that is precisely why Hillary should be President.


    If he treats the people that helped him (none / 0) (#93)
    by FlaDemFem on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 03:09:52 PM EST
    this way, how is he going to treat the voters that got him into office?? Not too well, at least not according to his record on how he treats people who help him. Looks to me like helping Obama is a good way to get him to run over you. People should think about that before voting for him.

    Houston Press Article (none / 0) (#29)
    by Key on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 12:59:08 PM EST
    for more information on Obama style politics:

    Houston Press Article

    He doesn't too much like (none / 0) (#31)
    by stillife on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 01:01:06 PM EST
    running against a strong opponent, does he?  If he has to disenfranchise a few voters along the way, who cares?  It's just politics - although it doesn't seem like a new kind of politics to me.

    I call shenanigans (none / 0) (#76)
    by Donna Darko on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 02:14:24 PM EST
    first entered public office not by leveling the playing field, but by clearing it

    I call shenanigans, backroom deals, gaming, cheating, you name it on the Obama Presidential campaign. Everything Obama and his supporters accuse the Clintons of they are doing and Clinton is not.

    The new political elite (none / 0) (#78)
    by Donna Darko on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 02:16:49 PM EST
    It's no wonder the white, male punditry wants Obama in office. I wrote this on my blog today:

    Among the major Dem and GOP candidates, Clinton is the only one with a majority of women in her staff; she also has the lowest percentage of white staff members. Obama's campaign, in contrast, is 20% female, and almost 60% white. It is Clinton's campaign staff that more accurately reflects what a diverse coalition looks like in this country. It is no surprise to me that the mostly white, male political and media elite favor Obama - they see in his advisors and staff a reflection of their relevance and an opportunity for power.

    well there you go... (none / 0) (#121)
    by jeffhas on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:56:25 PM EST
    Start with sexism, throw in a little classism, some ageism... tie it all together with a fine dash of elitism...

    This sounds like a recipe for a typical Obama supporter.


    Its happening in both directions (none / 0) (#85)
    by riddlerandy on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 02:37:55 PM EST
    See here and here.

    The Washington Post: "More than 70 top Clinton donors wrote their first checks to Obama in March, campaign records show."

    NBC News reports that Gabriel Guerra-Mondragon, who raised nearly $500,000 for Sen. Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign, is leaving and will join up with Sen. Barack Obama's campaign next week.

    "Among the reasons for Guerra-Mondragon to defect, according to one informed source, was he was uneasy with the tone of the Clinton campaign and was beginning to worry about what this would mean for the general election."

    who says he's going to be the nominee? Obama (none / 0) (#86)
    by ginamc on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 02:38:33 PM EST
    Axelrod is ruthless but BO does sanction Axelrod's move.  

    Also, This game is NOT over.  I am sick of hearing how BO is the presumptive nominee -- especially because this is SPIN from Obama to the Media to us.  I refuse to be brainwashed with his "inevitability" when this is derived from Obama.

    Obama plays hardball (none / 0) (#89)
    by riddlerandy on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 02:52:24 PM EST
    and the Clintons, we know, play softball, right?

    playing hardball politics is fine... (5.00 / 1) (#123)
    by jeffhas on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 07:00:43 PM EST
    saying you're 'a different kind of politician' while your playing hardball politics is the problem.

    it's all Obama and his choices (none / 0) (#108)
    by boredmpa on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 04:46:24 PM EST
    He successfully challenged about 2000 signatures (we don't know how many he went through in total), and you only needed i think around 650 to qualify.  We don't know how he challenged them...but it could have been the gatherer not signing the sheet or possibly a switch in polling places within the same district.  Someone with Illinois ballot petition knowledge could say for sure.  It costs $$$$ to challenge and money to defend challenges, and the people running for office new they could get shafted to some extent by incorrect signatures (wrong district) or dishonest gatherers (roundtabling) or unverifiable signatures (your signature is chicken scratch and doesn't match your voter reg card).

    Yes, all of this is brutal, the opposite of most elections, and very expensive and time consuming to defend.  And fyi Illinois has a history of disenfranchising green and independent candidates by making them collect significantly more signatures (though the independent rules were struck down as unconstitutional).

    heh typo (none / 0) (#109)
    by boredmpa on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 04:48:26 PM EST
    that's knew not new. sigh.

    and the number now is 1000 signatures in illinois for state senate, it used to be around 650, and most of his opponents collected over 1000k.  I believe palmer was closer to 1500, it's in the linked story.


    Troll, please delete (none / 0) (#111)
    by Marvin42 on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 05:20:30 PM EST

    Don;' even bother to address the topic (none / 0) (#120)
    by jeffhas on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:48:44 PM EST
    Obama stabbed Alice Palmer in the back - the first in a long line of people (women) he would step on to get to the highest office in the land with little or no experience.

    The whole 'suing to keep competitors off the ballot' completely obliterates his claim to be a' different kind of politician'

    He's pretending... do you get it yet?...

    Are his chickens (none / 0) (#124)
    by misspeach2008 on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 07:03:49 PM EST
    beginning to find their way home?