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Tsunami Tuesday: First Democratic Results Thread

Update: Obama wins Alaska. MSNBC calls Missouri for Obama. Hillary's leading in New Mexico.

Update: Missouri at 97% in is 4,000 votes ahead to Obama. I just checked the counties with some precincts out and they are strong Obama counties so I won't be surprised if he wins there. But they will split the delegates so the effect won't be much.

Obama wins Colorado. He's speaking now. It's the unity and change theme, no red or blue states, just the United States.

Update: Hillary wins Arizona, Obama wins Utah and Idaho. Obama advisor David Axelrod: "We feel good about the ten states we won, they feel good about the seven states they won." What he leaves out is the size of the states Hillary won -- New York and Mass. are not equivalent to Utah and North Dakota.

Update: Projections give Illinois and Georgia to Obama. Arkansas, Oklahoma and Tennessee projected for Hillary.

Update: Hillary wins New York, New Jersey, Massachussetts. Obama wins CT, Delaware, Kansas, MN, Alabama, North Dakota. 9:00 MT: polls now closing in California.

More....

***

The results should start coming in within hours. I'll be updating this thread as the evening progresses. States with results will be at the top, the rest will remain in alphabetical order until their results have been determined. (There will be a few hour lag when I leave to go caucus -- feel free to post new ones in the comments along with your thoughts.)

Remember that the winner of the popular vote doesn't get all the delegates. For the Democrats, 1,681 delegates are at stake in 16 primaries and seven caucuses.

  • Alabama Primary, 60 delegates
  • Alaska Caucus, 18 delegates
  • Arizona Primary, 67 delegates
  • Arkansas Primary, 47 delegates
  • California Primary, 441 delegates
  • Colorado Caucus, 71 delegates
  • Connecticut Primary, 60 delegates
  • Delaware Primary, 23 delegates
  • Georgia Primary, 103 delegates
  • Idaho Caucus, 23 delegates
  • Illinois Primary, 185 delegates
  • Kansas Caucus, 41 delegates
  • Massachusetts Primary, 121 delegates
  • Minnesota Caucus, 88 delegates
  • Missouri Primary, 88 delegates
  • New Jersey Primary, 127 delegates
  • New Mexico Caucus, 38 delegates
  • New York Primary, 281 delegates
  • North Dakota Caucus, 21 delegates
  • Oklahoma Primary, 47 delegates
  • Tennessee Primary, 85 delegates
  • Utah Primary, 29 delegates
  • Democrats Abroad Primary, 11 delegates
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  • Display: Sort:
    Goooooooooo! (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by LarryInNYC on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 04:00:51 PM EST
    Candidates!

    Got Popcorn and Sprite (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by Dalton Hoffine on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 04:33:07 PM EST
    Time for a long, long night! But a fun one! Go candidates! We have an especially strong field this year.

    The definition of truthiness (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 04:42:08 PM EST
    Jeralyn's state shapes ;-).

    Very entertaining.

    LOL (none / 0) (#10)
    by Josey on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 05:18:31 PM EST
    abbreviated versions. ;>
    But Illinois is missing.
    Does that mean Hillary won?


    Parent
    Illinois is there -- (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by Cream City on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 06:02:29 PM EST
    the green blob with the looooong border with Missouri (which is why Obama really ought to take Missouri, as he did Iowa).

    You're probably just a bit tossed by where the Great Lakes ought to be. :-)

    Parent

    But admittedly, American Samoa (none / 0) (#14)
    by Cream City on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 06:03:53 PM EST
    probably is really upset with Jeralyn.  Not a good vacation destination for her, unless under an assumed name.

    Parent
    Hillary is (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by talkingpoint on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 08:48:42 PM EST
    winning the primaries and Obama the caucauses (primaries means more). Obama only won 52% of Hispanics in his own state. Big trouble for camp Obama regarding Hispanics. Hillary is going to win MA and NJ, which is huge, but I wonder how the media is going to spin this for Obama.

    Maybe the way (none / 0) (#59)
    by jen on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 08:51:55 PM EST
    the Obama spokesman on CNN said that Hillary took Tennessee instead of Obama because there were tornados there???!!! ROFLOL!!!

    Parent
    The tornado situation was horrendous (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 08:55:54 PM EST
    About 80? people trapped in various buildings, college students, nursing homes.  I think there were deaths.  

    However, Hillary has huge margins and I'm hard pressed to believe that those margins could have been overtaken....the polls were closed for both candidates....

    Obama is a sore loser.

    Parent

    Teresa-- (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by Kathy on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 08:56:59 PM EST
    stop with the logic.  Tornadoes = spin

    Those people were disenfranchised by the tornado, and I swear I saw a Clinton surrogate in a biplane circling Nashville, dropping tornado pellets into the clouds.

    Parent

    ROTFLMAO n/t (none / 0) (#73)
    by MO Blue on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 09:02:27 PM EST
    I'm sure you'll find that truthiness (none / 0) (#80)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 09:05:34 PM EST
    on the Big Orange rec list.

    Parent
    Oh, here we go (5.00 / 0) (#76)
    by stillife on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 09:04:22 PM EST
    With the Obama supporters using the "delegates vs. popular vote" argument.

    Spin it, baby, spin it!  

    I usually like Jeff Toobin (I'm watching CNN) but I don't care for his Obama apologism. Gergen is much more sensible.

    shh. Huckabee is speaking now (5.00 / 0) (#91)
    by byteb on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 09:10:50 PM EST
    I don't want to miss a word: Widow's mite. David and Goliath reference. Big Victory.

    Ok..continue talking.

    What are the chances of Idaho (5.00 / 1) (#106)
    by lily15 on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 09:21:38 PM EST
    Kansas, Georgia, Utah, Alabama of going Democratic in the general?  Isn't that important to factor in when assessing Obama's wins?

    I've lived in Idaho (none / 0) (#112)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 09:28:22 PM EST
    Idaho will not go for a D.

    And yes, the other red states are interesting too.  As I posted above, what if Obama, who wins red states, and McCain, who wins blue states were to be matched in a GE?

    My head would explode.

    Parent

    These are just party (none / 0) (#117)
    by oldpro on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 09:32:18 PM EST
    primaries...doesn't mean much for winning a red state by anybody.

    Parent
    heh heh (5.00 / 1) (#135)
    by Kathy on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 09:57:39 PM EST
    "When the cameras are off and the bright lights are gone, who is going to still be standing there for you?"

    "I won't let anyone swiftboat this country's future."

    I love her so much.

    And you know those basta*ds at CNN are about to cut her speech off in the middle for CA exit polling results.

    Aww, I love her! (none / 0) (#137)
    by stillife on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 10:02:38 PM EST
    And she seems so energized.  I think she knows she's gonna win in you-know-where.

    Parent
    It's a great speech...too bad (none / 0) (#138)
    by oldpro on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 10:03:18 PM EST
    she doesn't have a teleprompter...but very well done.

    GREAT job of taking advantage of the free time when a lot of people who haven't yet caucused or voted would hear her message...and excellent one...hit damn near every point on the Democratic list!

    Parent

    Apparently (5.00 / 1) (#143)
    by BDB on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 10:14:42 PM EST
    The new standard for judging tonight is who won the most states.  Because North Dakota is totally on par with New Jersey.  Hey, they both have two words in their name!

    We'll see how Arizona and California go, but I predict Clinton will have gotten significantly more votes overall tonight than Obama.

    Oh Gawd, Bernstein's on.  Why does CNN hate me?

    I thought you knew (none / 0) (#147)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 10:18:11 PM EST
    Real estate votes now.... ;-).

    Parent
    I switched to msnbc as soon as Bernstein (none / 0) (#158)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 10:27:28 PM EST
    came on. And I can't stand them either.

    Parent
    CNN discussion of Missouri (5.00 / 1) (#165)
    by oldpro on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 10:37:14 PM EST
    and St Louis and Kansas City...precincts...wondering which ones are AA.  So odd to have the Dems split this way...made me think how odd it would sound if they talked about the 'white women's precincts' that haven't reported yet.  Somthing mildly racist about the way this is being reported...

    it's only racist (5.00 / 1) (#168)
    by Kathy on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 10:40:26 PM EST
    if someone from the Clinton campaign says it.

    Man, I am an old lady tonight.  Can't stay up past 12.  Y'all keep up the good fight.  I am hoping like crazy I wake up to good news tomorrow morning.  Thanks so much for keeping me company.  Even the cats abandoned me.  Stupid cats.

    Parent

    Move to the west! It;'s only (none / 0) (#171)
    by oldpro on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 10:43:31 PM EST
    8:45 here!  Still...a nap sounds good as McCain is still speaking.....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

    Parent
    Although the stats bear it out (none / 0) (#167)
    by Virginian on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 10:40:06 PM EST
    it is the assumption that AAs will all vote BO...its a racist assumption...

    Parent
    It's so clean and cute right now (none / 0) (#2)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 04:14:17 PM EST
    Everything's at zero except West Virginia.  My husband just called to say he was coming home and I said "Get Beer!"

    Will Jeralyn blog from the caucus? (none / 0) (#3)
    by oculus on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 04:17:46 PM EST


    yes, I'm here and just started (5.00 / 0) (#19)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 07:40:14 PM EST
    a live caucus blogging thread here.

    Parent
    I was wondering if you were going to be (none / 0) (#4)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 04:23:40 PM EST
    around tonight.  Excited? I Am!

    Parent
    I'm going to a Super Tues. party (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by oculus on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 04:31:10 PM EST
    which will deprive me of Talk Left.  What a choice.  But I'll hurry home to catch up and, of course, I am on PST.  

    Parent
    I am going to stay home (none / 0) (#8)
    by Kathy on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 04:52:29 PM EST
    and sweat.

    I will try not to post 10,000 times here.  Honest.

    I read on MyDD that California will take a long while to count as far as delegates.  Someone said that the popular vote would be easy, and should be in by Wed morning, but the delegate count could take until Friday, which gives the popular vote winner the news cycle for at least two days.

    Parent

    I planned to go to one, too, but (none / 0) (#9)
    by Cream City on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 05:02:34 PM EST
    a foot of snow, starting already, may stop me -- the Clinton campaign's party is many miles across town.

    The news is that there is such an event at all in my town, with our state's primary two weeks away.  I haven't found a sign of similar Obama events. . . .

    Parent

    CNN calls Georgia for Obama, which (none / 0) (#11)
    by Cream City on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 06:01:07 PM EST
    is so not news. :-)

    we have a large (none / 0) (#13)
    by Kathy on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 06:03:07 PM EST
    aa community here in GA.

    God, I hate putting it in those terms, and how come it is that it doesn't sound as bad to say NM goes to Clinton because of its large Latino bloc?

    Anyway, CNN just said that it is a state close to SC in demographics, so they must be thinking the same thing, too.

    I think I just insulted myself.

    Parent

    The leading state for AA population (none / 0) (#15)
    by Cream City on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 06:06:31 PM EST
    as I recall (South Carolina second).  

    And it's perfectly understandable to not "transcend race" when talking about today's results, especially after what we saw in SC.  And after Michelle Obama pointed out, at the start of this season, that "Ain't no black people in Iowa!"

    Parent

    okay (none / 0) (#16)
    by Kathy on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 06:09:28 PM EST
    thank you, cream.  I feel better about that now.

    From MyDD:

    "Obama wins Black voters in the state 86 percent to 13, while Clinton won White voters in the state 54 percent to 43 percent. It looks like that's a very good showing for Obama among both groups. Remains to be seen if this is a bellweather or an aberration..."

    Parent

    CNN sees it as a very good sign for Obama (none / 0) (#17)
    by Cream City on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 06:26:22 PM EST
    because it's a much bigger percentage of white voters than in SC, where it was about 25%.

    But CNN also has slightly different figures than these, with a higher percentage for Clinton.

    It's still all exit polls.  Not sure they're any more reliable than the pre-voting polls all over the map these days.  And, of course, exit polls still may be adjusted as the night goes on . . . as I now understand from an excellent explanation at pollster.com today.  

    Essentially, exit polls without results still are pre-voting poll numbers, adjusted only somewhat until the factor of turnout is known.  Then, exit polls are adjusted again for that.  It makes sense, but it also may make exit polls less meaningful as not really after-voting polls.

    Parent

    Alcoholics Anonymous? (none / 0) (#18)
    by Molly Bloom on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 07:26:07 PM EST
    Clinton states called (none / 0) (#20)
    by auntmo on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 07:42:12 PM EST
    CNN  called   Oklahoma,  Arkansas, and  Tennessee  for  Clinton.

    So  far, Obama  only  Georgia  and  Illinois .  And both of  those were  givens.    

    Hillary  didn't  even campaign in  Georgia.

    for example (none / 0) (#21)
    by NJDem on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 07:54:04 PM EST
    continuing on my last comment, why did they call AK and OK for her with such few %'s in, yet NJ, which has the same large margin, is not being called.  I guess it has something with NJ being the most densely populated states.  

    I'm surprised how BO is so much ahead AL, considering the latest polls--not that I'm surprised, but the polls showed a closer race.

    So many questions...At least we'll have a definitive answer sooner than later.

    NJDem (none / 0) (#22)
    by Kathy on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 07:56:40 PM EST
    no idea why, and I want to know, too.

    Off to the live blogging.  Will say one last time that I firmly do not agree with exit polling putting Clinton so low in Georgia.  I just don't buy it.

    (8:56pm)

    Parent

    Exit Polls... (none / 0) (#24)
    by Dan the Man on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 07:59:12 PM EST
    ...are being used as their guide.  The exit polls are sucking eggs right now though.  It said Clinton LOST NJ.

    Parent
    MSNBC calls mass for Hillary :) (none / 0) (#23)
    by athyrio on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 07:58:44 PM EST


    Exit polls had Obama(tm) winning MA (none / 0) (#25)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 08:01:46 PM EST
    So one down for the big C!

    Parent
    Hey, folks (none / 0) (#26)
    by Kathy on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 08:03:10 PM EST
    Jeralyn started a liveblog from her caucus.  Head on over!

    What is link? (none / 0) (#27)
    by IndependantThinker on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 08:07:39 PM EST
    msnbc just called (none / 0) (#28)
    by NJDem on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 08:07:56 PM EST
    MA for HRC.  Again, what is the criteria?  Why won't cnn call it?

    I really want to know the numbers of voters.  I feel that the Dems are energized and voting in unprecedented numbers.  If we remain this enthusiastic, which would seem to be the case, then  we out-number the Repubs--which is good for supporters of either Dem candidate.

    Now they (cnn) called BO for Delware, the % is smaller than other states they're not calling?  Is it a population-distribution thing I'm not understanding?

    Doesn't Make Kennedy and Kerry Look Good (none / 0) (#52)
    by MO Blue on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 08:45:32 PM EST
    when the voters in MA ignored their endorsements. Also, thought Kennedy and Kerry were supposed to have great political machines.

    Parent
    Hillary always had double digit leads in MA (none / 0) (#68)
    by byteb on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 08:59:10 PM EST
    Link (none / 0) (#29)
    by Kathy on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 08:09:45 PM EST
    Sorry to harp (none / 0) (#30)
    by NJDem on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 08:10:05 PM EST
    on this criteria thing for being called, but why DE now, but now NJ and MO which seem to have about the same spread with the same %?

    Can it be a conspiracy?  I'm half joking...

    NJDem (none / 0) (#32)
    by Kathy on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 08:13:13 PM EST
    I am with you, because it doesn't seem to be uniform.  I guess it's a matter of a network honcho saying, "Yeah, I'll stake being shamed and humiliated on this call."  Because MSNBC called MA for Clinton last I checked but CNN has not.

    I'm sure they each have their peeps on the ground and own agendas.

    Remember the Bush Buddy at Fox who said Florida was NOT a Gore win?  And then the fairy tale really began...

    Parent

    One Guess In MO Is That St. Louis City (none / 0) (#44)
    by MO Blue on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 08:34:54 PM EST
    has no votes counted. Large AA community unaccounted for there.

    Parent
    my bad (none / 0) (#31)
    by NJDem on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 08:12:30 PM EST
    the % was much higher in DE.  

    Wouldn't everyone (none / 0) (#33)
    by NJDem on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 08:18:56 PM EST
    (and by the way, that word, "everyone" means all Democrats) just love for the MSM to have to admit they were wrong  with one of these early projections or interpretations of the trends?  I would love for them to have to eat crow!  

    More than anything I want the MSM (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by RalphB on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 08:24:26 PM EST
    to be absolutely humiliated.  The exit polls say there is only a 6% gender gap.  Does anyone believe that?  Way too low to me.

    Concerning MA, I can't express how glad I am that Ted Kennedy and John Kerry got their head handed to them.  I'm really sick of Kennedy picking nominees.


    Parent

    I would love it, too (none / 0) (#34)
    by Kathy on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 08:22:01 PM EST
    but you know they will spin it somehow.

    There's a great doc on the media and how they helped wage war for Bush.  It's called, I think, NEWS WAR.

    It's shameful how they shilled for Bush.  Do you see any of them apologizing for it now, or do you see them helping Obama blast Hillary Clinton for her vote?

    Parent

    NBC just called New Jersey (none / 0) (#36)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 08:27:43 PM EST
    for Hillary!  That was another one that the big Obama(tm) was supposed to win (via exit poll).

    Parent
    Latino/a vote going great for Clinton (none / 0) (#37)
    by Cream City on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 08:28:20 PM EST
    per exit polls.  A very smart Congressman I've seen several times on CNN, a guy named Meek, I think -- an African American -- points out (with passion, which is one reason I enjoy him!) that for Obama to get only 52% of Latinos/as in his home state of Illinois is a bad sign for him.

    Another commentator points out, correctly, that there is no Latino/a political mindset, that it's diverse.  But still, I recall so well Obama's answer in the debates that he always had overwhelming support from Latinos/as in Illinois. . . .

    Cream (none / 0) (#39)
    by Kathy on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 08:30:53 PM EST
    Meek was with Clinton when the JJ remark was made in SC, and defended Clinton, so folks who don't wanna are gonna find many reasons not to believe anything he says.

    I, on the other hand, agree.

    Calling AL for Obama.

    I don't think it'll play well for him to be winning the aa vote like this.  

    Parent

    Yep, I saw Meek step up for WJC (none / 0) (#48)
    by Cream City on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 08:41:59 PM EST
    when it wasn't at all easy to do so -- and I thought, now that is a good man.  

    And a smart one.  And as I said, I so enjoy him!  He's passionate and funny . . . reminds me of your comments, which are cracking me up.  I think you have a novel in you.  Hmmm, the next Fannie Flagg?

    Towanda! speaks:  Let's see more of Congressman Meek.  (And less of Bill Bennett, Carl Bernstein, and the list is long. . . .)

    Parent

    well... (none / 0) (#62)
    by Kathy on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 08:54:57 PM EST
    "I'm about as settled as I'm ever gonna be."

    Parent
    Okay (none / 0) (#70)
    by Kathy on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 09:01:54 PM EST
    now I am peeved.  Clinton won Arkansas by almost 50 points, and that jacka*s was harping on Obama winning IL by 30?

    Give me a break.

    O! M! G!

    Romney got Utah!  Holy Jesus on the Cross!

    Parent

    Holy Secret Underwear! (5.00 / 2) (#74)
    by byteb on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 09:04:08 PM EST
    hahaha! (none / 0) (#84)
    by Kathy on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 09:07:31 PM EST
    Secret underwear.  OMG, that's hilarious.

    Woops, Obama got ND.  What's up with that?

    Oh, wait, lemme see my map...

    You know, Obama always wins states where he really campaigns.  He's just gotta meet folks and they instantly like him better than Hillary.  All these states where he's losing the popular vote (but still winning the delegates) are places he didn't have time to campaign in, what with only starting his bid for the presidency two years ago.  I tell ya, give him two more years and he'd KEEEL!

    Parent

    I got a different interpretation (none / 0) (#133)
    by NaNaBear on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 09:52:11 PM EST
    I posted a qoute by  Bendixen  one of Clinton's --
     Clinton's  political operatives made a few weeks ago.  He said  " The Hispanic voter" -- and I want to say this very carefully -- has not shown a lot of willingness or affinity to support black candidates."

    Obama said this isn't  true, because Hispanics voted for me in Ill.

    . At the Jan. 15 debate, before the Nevada caucuses, where the Latino vote was important, NBC's Tim Russert read the Bendixen quote and asked Clinton, "Does that represent the view of your campaign?" Her response was chilling: "No, he was making a historical statement."

    We have to be careful when we scrutinize the AA vote and not others. One poster said when blacks
    castthe majority of their votes for Obabma , it isn't good for Obama. I can't understand this kinda thinking.
     Hilary is getting black votes too. Is it bad for Clinton when she gets most of the Hispanic votes?

    BOttom Line: Why is it bad for Obama when he gets the majority black vote, but the Hispanic vote for Clinton isn't viewed the same way. Maybe am misunderstanding what some are saying.  

     In some areas of the country blacks and Hispanics are at odds with one another for various  reasons.
    The DEM Party doesn't need this if we expect to beat the REP. They can use it to divide our party. Let's not help them.(imo)  

    Parent

    good news for HRC (I think) (none / 0) (#38)
    by NJDem on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 08:30:46 PM EST
    there have been tornado watches in OK and Tn all day, but they still came out in droves for her.  That must mean something.

    So, NJ was just being called by msnbc, I believe, not to mention MA, but CNN just called AL for BO--so come on, why the hold up for good news for HRC.  

    yeah (none / 0) (#40)
    by Kathy on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 08:31:26 PM EST
    Obama camp already saying that the tornadoes kept all his voters away.  

    Parent
    excuses, excuses (none / 0) (#42)
    by stillife on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 08:32:27 PM EST
    and the dog peed on their homework!

    Parent
    Let Me See If I Got This Right (none / 0) (#69)
    by MO Blue on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 09:00:30 PM EST
    The old folks made it to the polls but the younger crowd couldn't make it.

    Parent
    MO Blue (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by Kathy on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 09:04:18 PM EST
    I know--it's shocking.

    If one more of these stupid pundits harps on the "disproportionate turn out of older white women" I am going to get a gun and go down to CNN.  Who the heck do they think votes in every election?

    From the Obama camp: "A candidate could lose by six points in California and still only get 16 fewer delegates"

    Is that some kind of strategy?  "We may lose by a lot, but we'll only lose by a little!"

    Parent

    It seems to me (none / 0) (#41)
    by stillife on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 08:31:50 PM EST
    that Wolfie is overly eager to call states for Barack.

    Parent
    maybe you are just (none / 0) (#43)
    by Kathy on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 08:33:17 PM EST
    nervous about it?  I do not disagree with your opinion, though it seems pretty fair to me.  I mean, as fair as any of them.  I'm pretty certain the anchor doesn't get to make the call.


    Parent
    is cnn more level tonight than msnbc? (none / 0) (#45)
    by hellothere on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 08:35:53 PM EST
    i ask because i can't bring myself to turn on the tv.

    Parent
    it could be just me (none / 0) (#51)
    by stillife on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 08:44:29 PM EST
    I tend to get overly defensive.  ;)

    Now we have David Gergen (who actually like, as far as Repub pundits go) saying that it's a good night for Hillary but she didn't win NY by as large a margin as Barack won IL.  Do you see what I mean?  Maybe I'm just being petty here.

    Parent

    still (none / 0) (#61)
    by Kathy on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 08:53:51 PM EST
    I saw that just a few minutes ago and thought, "sumbit*ch! Still was right!"

    I agree with you now, at least about that.  By what margin did Hillary win Arkansas?  Or was that only because the tornadoes scared the Obama dems away from the polls?"

    And now they said, "overall, no major surprises tonight"

    WTF?!  ARE YOU FREAKIN' KIDDIN ME?  

    Parent

    They're pathetic! (none / 0) (#72)
    by stillife on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 09:02:01 PM EST
    The MSM makes their prognostications and then they blame the weather when it doesn't work out. Last figure I saw on AK was Hillary 71, Obama 23. Well, you know, the tornado targeted Obama supporters.  It's part of Teh Evil Clinton Conspiracy.

    If I could post graphics here, I'd post Nelson Muntz saying, "Haw Haw!"

    Parent

    Forgot to mention (none / 0) (#46)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 08:36:14 PM EST
    Tweety pressed Menendez to say that NJ would be a "bellwether" for Hillary.  Menendez wouldn't say that....but Hilalry won it anyway!

    and isn't it amazing (none / 0) (#47)
    by NJDem on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 08:38:48 PM EST
    that the MSM can talk about BO winning b/c of the AA vote, but no one else can mention it without being called a racist?  I mean, let's just be honest that  AA's will vote in larger margins as women will vote for HRC--it's kinda obvious.  But the MSM will acts like BC's comments in SC were a watershed moment.  Lets see.  

    Why no call for MO yet, seems like it's pretty heavily in HRC's corner...

    In the spirit of unity, Go Democratic Party!  let's out-number the Repubs in way that implies a mandate of change (which either of our nominees would bring).  

    They should call a few states (none / 0) (#49)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 08:43:14 PM EST
    for Obama for the same reason, but they haven't.  They're trying to be conservative.

    Parent
    Hey. (none / 0) (#50)
    by oldpro on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 08:43:32 PM EST
    Where'd everybody go???

    Yes! (none / 0) (#53)
    by stillife on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 08:46:46 PM EST
    Finally CNN called MA for Hillary.

    Gawd. I love it. (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by oldpro on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 08:48:35 PM EST
    Take that Kerry, Kennedy, Gov whatsisname.

    Parent
    MEH!!!! (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 08:52:21 PM EST
    My dynasty beats your dynasty

    (LOL, just using that awful dynasty meme that folks have been blasting Hillary with).

    Parent

    Indeed (none / 0) (#67)
    by stillife on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 08:57:04 PM EST
    That was so hypocritical.  Kennedys are OK, Clintons not so much.

    BTW, I've been reading and enjoying your posts here.


    Parent

    You're sweet (none / 0) (#77)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 09:04:50 PM EST
    I came to escape the horrors of the big orange.

    I've enjoyed your posts too!

    Parent

    New Jersey- YES! Hil (none / 0) (#56)
    by oldpro on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 08:50:04 PM EST


    Take that! (none / 0) (#58)
    by stillife on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 08:51:54 PM EST
    Anti-Hillary pundits.

    I'm so proud of the Northeast.

    Dare I say it?  I think she'll take Cali.

    Parent

    hold on, now (none / 0) (#63)
    by Kathy on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 08:55:42 PM EST
    let's not get ahead of ourselves here.  California is many hours away.

    Parent
    I don't wanna jinx it (none / 0) (#104)
    by stillife on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 09:21:05 PM EST
    but I have faith in Cali.

    Parent
    me, too (none / 0) (#108)
    by Kathy on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 09:24:11 PM EST
    now, hush!

    Parent
    OMG, yay! (none / 0) (#57)
    by stillife on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 08:50:59 PM EST
    Hillary takes NJ!  I always thought she would, but I'm so relieved.

    I'm sure the MSM will find a way to qualify it by saying it was all the dumb, blue-collar voters.

    Was she ever behind in NJ? (none / 0) (#79)
    by byteb on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 09:04:59 PM EST
    I didn't think so (none / 0) (#82)
    by stillife on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 09:06:32 PM EST
    until I read some scary polls.  But we all know how dependable polls are.

    Parent
    paging Mr Zogby... (none / 0) (#65)
    by Kathy on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 08:55:59 PM EST
    does anyone have a chart we can use to compare?

    Missouri looks great for Hil (none / 0) (#71)
    by oldpro on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 09:01:57 PM EST
    so far...only 1/3 of the vote in tho...no projection yet.  That would be big.

    No Votes Counted In St. Louis City Yet (none / 0) (#78)
    by MO Blue on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 09:04:59 PM EST
    Large AA community. Don't know how much that will tighten the race. Would love MO to go to Hillary.

    Parent
    how do you think (none / 0) (#81)
    by NJDem on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 09:06:04 PM EST
    Kennedy and Kerry feel?  Talk about embarrassing...

    Why won't they call MO?

    It is weird (none / 0) (#88)
    by stillife on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 09:08:54 PM EST
    b/c they just called North Dakota for Barack with similar margins.

    I guess they just hold back when it's a Hillary win.  Or am I being paranoid?  To be charitable, I suppose it could depend on the population of the reporting precincts.

    Parent

    Still (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by Kathy on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 09:10:34 PM EST
    I don't think you're being paranoid anymore.  They are all a bunch of basta*ds.

    Obama trounces Hillary in IL with 30%

    Hillary ekes by in Arkansas with 50%

    Parent

    but they call (none / 0) (#83)
    by NJDem on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 09:06:46 PM EST
    North Dakota (no offense) immediately?  

    probably because (none / 0) (#87)
    by Kathy on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 09:08:41 PM EST
    only six people voted.  I mean, it's ND.  Even National Geographic trashed them.

    Parent
    Question (none / 0) (#85)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 09:07:38 PM EST
    If Obama and McCain both win:

    How do you think the fact that Obama is taking red states and McCain blue states will shape up in the GE.

    red/blue (5.00 / 0) (#89)
    by Kathy on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 09:09:37 PM EST
    very impressive observation.  I wasn't looking at the big picture (something teachers noted in report cards since I was six)

    Parent
    LOL. (none / 0) (#98)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 09:17:51 PM EST
    Thanks.

    Parent
    McCain would crush Obama (5.00 / 1) (#103)
    by Virginian on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 09:20:59 PM EST
    in a GE (by 3-4%)...not because Obama isn't a better candidate than McCain...he is...but his weaknesses are those that can be uniquely exploited by the Republicans IMO...

    Parent
    North Dakota for Obama (none / 0) (#86)
    by oldpro on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 09:07:53 PM EST
    Golly gee...wonder why THAT is?

    Connecticut...damn...too close to call (none / 0) (#92)
    by oldpro on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 09:11:13 PM EST
    50/47% with 56% reporting & we're behind..

    Got this from Taylor Marsh (none / 0) (#93)
    by Kathy on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 09:12:51 PM EST
    from Clinton team:
    Third Red State Called for Clinton

    We're very excited that Hillary Clinton has added a third red state in her victory column.

    Clinton now has scored strong victories in Oklahoma, Tennessee and Arkansas.

    The Obama campaign has been spinning that they have a monopoly on red states; tonight we showed they don't.

    With these important victories, Hillary Clinton has demonstrated that she can compete and win in red states.


    We were posting simultaneously (none / 0) (#95)
    by oldpro on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 09:14:09 PM EST
    looks like!  Great minds and all that!

    Parent
    OK, Tenn, Ark for Hillary (none / 0) (#94)
    by oldpro on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 09:12:57 PM EST
    Guess Obama isn't taking the whole south

    no, not the whole south (none / 0) (#97)
    by Kathy on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 09:17:17 PM EST
    just sweeping the black vote.

    I will be interested to see if the statistics from SC play out across the nation.  Not good for Obama, not good for America.

    Parent

    Yes. Very worrisome re (none / 0) (#107)
    by oldpro on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 09:22:02 PM EST
    dividing the Democrats and the country.

    I don't want to think about what could happen if we go to the convention without a winner and Hillary takes it on Edwards &/or super delegates...denying the nomination to Obama.

    I will never forgive those bastards for drafting Obama to take out Hillary in this race.

    Parent

    The old-boy network. (none / 0) (#140)
    by phat on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 10:05:07 PM EST
    Rears its ugly head.

    phat

    Parent

    any of you smart people (none / 0) (#96)
    by NJDem on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 09:15:04 PM EST
    know if the CA polls close at 11pm EST or PST?

    Thanks!

    Also, gotta give it up for Huckabee jamming playing Sweet Home Alabama with his band earlier.  If anyone else saw it, do you agree that it brings home the fact that you can like someone but disagree with just about every opinion they have.  As someone else pointed out, that must have been some music teacher in Hope, AK!

    8PM PST/11PM EST (none / 0) (#99)
    by oldpro on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 09:18:14 PM EST
    Re music/Hope Arkansas...something in the water there, alright.

    Yes...Huckabee is VERY likeable.  I thought he was amazing from the first time I saw him speak on television and it scared me spitless...he's a down-home charmer...a natural...preacher turned to politics.

    Parent

    yes. you nailed it. (none / 0) (#105)
    by byteb on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 09:21:13 PM EST
    My CNN page (none / 0) (#111)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 09:26:30 PM EST
    shows CA closing at 8:00pm PST

    Parent
    kansas for 'Bama (none / 0) (#100)
    by byteb on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 09:18:43 PM EST
    MSNBC calls it.

    Georgia (none / 0) (#101)
    by Kathy on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 09:20:20 PM EST
    On 63% or precincts:

    C: 34.5
    O: 62.5

    prediction based on exit polling was C 25 O 75.

    Still more votes to count...

    Something we should check out (none / 0) (#102)
    by jen on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 09:20:29 PM EST
    after the primaries are over -- which states are primaries, which are caucuses and who won which.

    I live in NV, and in my small, very Republican village, our caucus was swarmed with Republicans registering to participate, most of them for Obama. My friend's husband, who is a Republican, told her he was coming to caucus AGAINST Hillary, and he would never vote Dem in the GE.

    I believe Idaho, Minnesota and North Dakota are all caucus states, and Obama's so far ahead. I would be curious how many Republicans caucused for Obama in those states.

    If Obama wins the nomination, and those Republicans who caucused for him vote for him in the GE, plus Dems vote for him, he should theoretically win those states in unprecedented landslides. I highly doubt that will happen.

    Caucuses suck.

    Every single one. (none / 0) (#121)
    by Dalton Hoffine on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 09:36:16 PM EST
    Every single caucus state is going for Obama. I think they've declared...

    North Dakota, Minnesota, Kansas are all solidly Obama... Idaho is too, though they haven't called it yet, and I think Colorado's going for Obama as well. So he's accomplished his mission there.

    Let's not downplay the caucuses though. I think that's a mistake. MN has an 88 delegate one, and Kansas and Colorado are big prizes too. Caucuses are usually won by much larger margins than primaries, which means that delegates will go more towards one candidate than the other, perhaps collectively making up for some of the bigger state, close primaries.

    We shall see. Obama's definitely going to be within his 100 point deficit "goal" heading into California (and Alaska, which should go for him.)

    So I think Obama's in a very good position to go ahead into LA, HI, NE, WI, and the Beltway primary.

    Parent

    proof that (none / 0) (#109)
    by NJDem on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 09:24:55 PM EST
    cnn is biased, they just called "important victories" for BO in Conn. and Kansas.

    But HRC is way ahead in MO, which they haven't called.  And I believe it is more important in that it is a "bell-weather" state.  I think they're just holding on to the tight-race/BO story for ratings, no?

    I mean, anything can happen in CA, but how can they be so biased towards HRC when she seems to win a state?

    Look at the TV screen and ask (none / 0) (#113)
    by oldpro on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 09:28:57 PM EST
    yourself..."the best political team on TV" has...ummm...HOW MANY women on their panel?

    Pissed me off from the minute I started watching.  I'll be emailing them about THAT.

    Parent

    Exactly. (none / 0) (#116)
    by Kathy on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 09:32:01 PM EST
    All men.

    I am still reeling about that remark about IL's 30%.  What about AR's 50%?  Hello?

    Can someone who is better at math do a tally of popular vote so far?  I mean, I know Obama's ND sweep is a big win, but I think there might be more people in NY, NJ and MA...

    Parent

    Missouri still holding for Hil (none / 0) (#110)
    by oldpro on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 09:25:57 PM EST
    with 1/2 the votes in...

    Wow. Tornado making a MESS (none / 0) (#114)
    by oldpro on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 09:30:37 PM EST
    in Tennessee

    thanks (none / 0) (#115)
    by NJDem on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 09:31:27 PM EST
    I assumed Ca closed at 8pm EST (ergo 11 EST) but wanted to make sure.  

    It's still a long night folks!

    ans now (none / 0) (#118)
    by NJDem on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 09:32:38 PM EST
    Minn for BO, but Conn, has a 2% difference with 75% in, but they can't call MO?  Makes NO sense!

    St. Louis (none / 0) (#123)
    by Dalton Hoffine on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 09:37:17 PM EST
    They're waiting for the big AA vote in St. Louis, and surrounding areas. It's not in yet.

    Parent
    If the city continues its trend (none / 0) (#129)
    by Virginian on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 09:46:42 PM EST
    Obama will net gain about 29k from ST Louis...not enough to catch up to HRC, but enough to close the gap...MO will go Clinton...just a matter of time

    Parent
    Minnesota caucses for Obama. (none / 0) (#119)
    by oldpro on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 09:34:04 PM EST
    Zesus...what the Hell are they thinking?

    I've seen that (none / 0) (#120)
    by NJDem on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 09:34:12 PM EST
    AZ closes at 9pm, but if the same list had CA closing at 11, then shouldn't this have closed already?

    Sorry if I'm missing the obvious here :)

    Diff time zones and... (none / 0) (#122)
    by oldpro on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 09:36:39 PM EST
    it doesn't make sense, does it?  Where did you see it?

    Parent
    Romney running off at themouth (none / 0) (#124)
    by byteb on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 09:37:29 PM EST
    someone shut him  up. please.

    Mute button. Bathroom break! (none / 0) (#125)
    by oldpro on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 09:39:26 PM EST
    Other options too numerous to mention!  I'm gonna make a sandwich!

    FOOD!  I've chewed off my fingernails and they are not very nourishing...

    Parent

    Tweety has been kissing a*s a bit (none / 0) (#126)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 09:41:58 PM EST
    Wonder if he figures he'd better be nice to Hillary?

    (too much to hope).

    Tweety can't seem to find a middle ground (5.00 / 0) (#130)
    by byteb on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 09:47:01 PM EST
    He swings like a pendulum in excess.

    Parent
    Tweety swings (5.00 / 0) (#131)
    by Kathy on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 09:50:19 PM EST
    because of that ball rolling around in his head.  

    Parent
    okay (none / 0) (#127)
    by Kathy on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 09:43:10 PM EST
    keeping in mind that I have not balanced my checkbook since...well, okay, never...I tallied up the votes so far according to CNN, and this is what I got:

    C: 3,677,807
    O: 3,586,987

    So, around 100K votes between them, according to this, which should not tell you anything except that I would rather do math than listen to Romney speak.  Oh, and it doesn't count her wins in MI and FL, either!  Haha!

    Someone please feel free to check me.

    thanks all (none / 0) (#132)
    by NJDem on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 09:51:44 PM EST
    I saw AZ on CNN, but ABC news site has current numbers for all states coming in--thought I'd pass it on.  

    It does seem like HRC is (narrowly?) winning AZ, but the margin with Latinos was smaller than compared to the NE. I wonder what this means about CA?  I can't imagine there could be such a dramatic difference when incorporating common socio-economic factors (I'm aware of the cultural differences).

    Eastern Latinos not the same (none / 0) (#136)
    by oldpro on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 09:58:55 PM EST
    as western Latinos.

    Parent
    Funny (none / 0) (#139)
    by Virginian on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 10:04:27 PM EST
    neither are eastern white folks and western white folks...:-P

    Parent
    Staying ahead in Arizona... (none / 0) (#141)
    by oldpro on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 10:09:44 PM EST


    Exit poll in California (none / 0) (#142)
    by oldpro on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 10:10:55 PM EST
    "competetive"

    Eh (none / 0) (#144)
    by BDB on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 10:15:45 PM EST
    Exit polls showed Obama winning Massachusetts.   So I take that with a grain of salt.

    Parent
    Carl Bernstein - the big story (none / 0) (#145)
    by oldpro on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 10:16:11 PM EST
    was gonna be Hillary wrapping it up tonight...but she did well enough tonight that it gives them the kind of thing they like to run on going forward...

    Arizona goes for Hillary (none / 0) (#146)
    by BHLinGA on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 10:16:23 PM EST
    Great win, I think!

    Wow. Yes! Gov. Napolitano (none / 0) (#150)
    by oldpro on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 10:21:44 PM EST
    endorsed Barack.

    Guess that wasn't worth as much as they hoped.

    Parent

    Per MSNBC (none / 0) (#151)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 10:22:15 PM EST
    56 delegates in AZ, as opposed to Deleware with 15 delegates.

    Parent
    Biden sat on his hands... (none / 0) (#155)
    by oldpro on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 10:24:27 PM EST
    wonder what he was saying privately to Dems...

    and where their Super Delegates are likely to go?

    Parent

    she won big there too (none / 0) (#161)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 10:28:16 PM EST
    not even close, and yes, a defeat for Napolitano who I don't like anyway.

    Parent
    Competence (none / 0) (#148)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 10:19:59 PM EST
    does not have a skin color, I am happy to say!

    That woman could do anything!

    Missouri is now (none / 0) (#149)
    by BHLinGA on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 10:20:42 PM EST
    Clinton 50%
    Obama 47%

    I don't like the way this one has been moving the last hour.

    Big cities are coming in now... (none / 0) (#152)
    by oldpro on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 10:22:46 PM EST
    Obama winning solidly there....nailbiter...

    Parent
    How big of cities? (none / 0) (#156)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 10:25:35 PM EST
    She's about 20,000 votes ahead right now.

    Parent
    Big. St. Louis and ....um.... (none / 0) (#162)
    by oldpro on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 10:29:08 PM EST
    Kansas City, Mo.

    Parent
    It's 87% reporting (none / 0) (#153)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 10:23:31 PM EST
    I think she's doing all right.

    Parent
    that's on (none / 0) (#154)
    by Kathy on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 10:24:13 PM EST
    almost 90% of precincts reporting, though...

    Parent
    This one will be close...could go (none / 0) (#157)
    by oldpro on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 10:26:25 PM EST
    either way.

    Parent
    I think HRC takes MO (none / 0) (#166)
    by Virginian on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 10:37:17 PM EST
    by 2-4k

    Parent
    gonna be close (none / 0) (#169)
    by Rojas on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 10:40:27 PM EST
    worm has turned (none / 0) (#179)
    by Rojas on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 11:07:55 PM EST
    Yep (none / 0) (#180)
    by Virginian on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 11:10:59 PM EST
    so much for my algebra :)

    Parent
    Utah. Dead heat so far (none / 0) (#159)
    by oldpro on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 10:27:53 PM EST


    Lance Mannion nails it (none / 0) (#160)
    by jen on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 10:27:55 PM EST
    Clinton is going to lose

    Big day tomorrow.  Vote early, vote often.

    Based on what I've been reading I predict Hillary Clinton's going to lose.

    She'll probably wind up pocketing the most delegates but she's going to lose.

    The Media will see to it.

    It's unlikely she'll get out and out beaten across the board, but she'll still lose.  She'll lose by not beating Obama across the board or she'll lose by not winning in every big state or she'll lose by not winning by a large enough margin in the states she's supposed to win or by not coming close enough in the states she's expected to lose or she'll lose by not getting the votes of the right demographic or she'll lose by not getting enough votes in the demographics that were going to vote for her anyway or she'll lose because not enough people tell the exit pollsters on their way out how excited they were to cast their vote for her.

    Whatever, however.

    She's going to lose.

    She's going to lose because they're going to say she did and they'll say it because they want her to.

    This is not sour grapes.  This is the way it's been going on for fifteen years now.  And those of you who think that this is a good reason not to support her, so we can get away from this, those of you who think that Obama will somehow be able, through the sheer force of his personality or the beauty of his rhetoric or the wonderfulness that is him or through the plain fact that he is not a Clinton need to consider this very real possibility:

    The reason he's a media darling now is because he's not a Clinton. He gives them a way to dump on the Clintons while congratulating themselves on how cool and post-partisan they are.

    If and when Hillary's beaten and Obama's the nominee he becomes the Democrat running for President.

    And you watch.

    If the Republican running against him is John McCain then every single move Obama makes will be the wrong one.

    Everything he says will be a lie.

    Every time he appears to win he will lose.

    http://lancemannion.typepad.com/lance_mannion/2008/02/clinton-will-lo.html?cid=100020762#comment-100 020762



    dang (5.00 / 1) (#164)
    by Kathy on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 10:34:25 PM EST
    too frackin' true.

    Parent
    John McCain's mother standing (none / 0) (#170)
    by oldpro on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 10:41:21 PM EST
    at 92!...with our old pal Joe Lieberman.

    McCain reading sing-song from the teleprompter...it really shows.  So different a cadence from when he speaks....pretty good content...

    Cutting off McCain to switch to "O" (none / 0) (#172)
    by oldpro on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 10:44:16 PM EST


    mute button now (none / 0) (#174)
    by RalphB on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 10:52:12 PM EST
    it's a good speech (none / 0) (#176)
    by byteb on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 10:58:24 PM EST
    remembers victims in Tenn and arkansas..congrats Hillary on her victories tonight...and then on to his stump speech. very classy

    Parent
    she did the same (none / 0) (#185)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 11:39:18 PM EST
    an hour before he did -- opened with regret for storm victims and congratulated him. No points there.

    Parent
    Colorado for Obama. ugh. (none / 0) (#173)
    by oldpro on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 10:46:57 PM EST
    ...the wild west....saddle up, folks...this is going to be a fight.

    Anyone know (none / 0) (#175)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 10:55:32 PM EST
    how the delegate are awarded in Missouri?  Hillary won most of the counties, but St. Louis is going to give Obama the win, I'm afraid.

    delegates should be even then? (none / 0) (#177)
    by byteb on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 10:59:10 PM EST
    It's all about the precincts (none / 0) (#178)
    by BHLinGA on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 11:05:27 PM EST
    It depends on precincts I think - according to somebody - John Roberts maybe?  There are more precincts in the cities because of the denser population.  So, even though Hillary has won the majority of the counties and the popular vote is so close, Obama could end up with more delegates.  

    Parent
    Right, PRECINCTS, thank you. (none / 0) (#183)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 11:26:43 PM EST
    I'm tired.

    Parent
    ABC just called California (none / 0) (#181)
    by g8grl on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 11:15:29 PM EST
    for Hillary!!!  Yes!!!

    Amazing that they are calling it so (none / 0) (#182)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 11:22:28 PM EST
    quickly.  Must not be that close.

    Parent
    might be a mistake (none / 0) (#184)
    by g8grl on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 11:38:12 PM EST
    to make the call so early before they've counted Berkeley and Palo Alto.  Supposedly huge turnout at Stanford and UCB.

    Parent