Michael Vick Gets Suspended Sentence in State Case

NFL quarterback Michael Vick, serving his 23 month federal sentence for dog-fighting (background here), pleaded guilty to a similar charge in state court today. He received a suspended sentence, which now makes him eligible for a half-way house on the federal sentence.

It looks like the Judge insisted on one pound of flesh, so to speak:

Vick was taken to Virginia last Thursday after (Judge)Campbell rejected a request by Vicks' attorneys for him to plead guilty by videoconference.

From Kansas where Vick is serving his federal sentence to Virginia on "Con Air" usually requires an unpleasant stay at "the hub" prison in Reno, OK. Inmates are mostly in lockdown and encounter all sorts of unpleasant people along the way. (I'll spare you the stories I've heard about Reno over the years.) Same thing for the return. It's not likely to be a direct flight but another trip to Reno first. So unless Vick is receiving special transfer treatment, he has received an extra punishment for his state plea.

< Guantanamo Detainee Hamdan Returning to Yemen | Glass Houses >
  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft

  • Display: Sort:
    I have absolutely NO sympathy for the man (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by nycstray on Tue Nov 25, 2008 at 11:31:46 AM EST
    re: Reno and quite frankly, I hope he did encounter some "unpleasant people" along the way. Doubt it would compare to his actions.

    I dislike that my own prison system (none / 0) (#3)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Nov 25, 2008 at 11:34:36 AM EST
    can be used as a punishment outside of the punishment incarceration already is.  What he did is very gross and disgusting to me but I can't say that I want him to experience the same thing.  That being said, I have lots and lots of friends who feel exactly the way you do.

    Let Him Rot! (none / 0) (#18)
    by Pepe on Tue Nov 25, 2008 at 01:14:08 PM EST
    Half-way house? No frigging way.

    Those innocent animals didn't get a Half-Way chance. He should do his 23 months in 6X8 and be glad that is all he got. After that I will work with others to have him banned from the NFL if the NFL doesn't have the good sense to do it themselves.

    Oh yeah - Reno? Karma.

    There are even thugs like Vick in Reno who love animals. I hope they had a man to man with him - talk that is - but not a nice talk. I;m sure the guards looked the other way.

    Vick is a real piece of sh.. - never mind.


    Actually, for the first time (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by nycstray on Tue Nov 25, 2008 at 01:39:29 PM EST
    the pit bulls got to live. Only one was put down for being too aggressive. Many have been rehabbed and are in new homes with a couple working towards therapy dog certification.

    Of course this is all no thanks to Vick. Or PETA who believes they should all be euthed. Thank G*d the judge was thoughtful and compassionate. He may have set a new thinking towards fighting dogs in motion. Much to PETA's displeasure, Ha!


    Glad the judge (none / 0) (#28)
    by Pepe on Tue Nov 25, 2008 at 01:44:01 PM EST
    did that.

    I disagree with PETA'S position.


    Many of us do. (none / 0) (#35)
    by nycstray on Tue Nov 25, 2008 at 01:56:42 PM EST
    All dogs should be evaluated. Many of Vicks dogs were fearful and lo/no drive as far as dog aggression. Some of the re-homed ones are living with other dogs. The ones that went to BadRap attended their training classes and were socialized etc.

    I have a fear dog from an abuse situation. If she had landed at the city shelter, she would be dead. Luckily, she landed at the shelter by me and I rehabbed her. We've been together 6yrs now :)


    I'm with you (none / 0) (#43)
    by Pepe on Tue Nov 25, 2008 at 02:39:39 PM EST
    Glad to hear you story about saving your now best friend.

    Almost my entire life I have saved strays from the streets. I clean them up, fatten them up, give them some love, and nurse then back to health if they need that. When they are ready I take care in finding them a loving and long term home, hopefully with children. Never ever have I had to take them to the pound.

    My German Shepherd was a stray that was abused and I kept him. It didn't take long at all to rehab him. What a true friend they are. Unconditional.


    My kennel club still won't be happy though (none / 0) (#2)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Nov 25, 2008 at 11:32:25 AM EST
    I will tell them he is having to cough up a pound of flesh in Reno, perhaps that will soothe them.

    Kind of hard to be... (none / 0) (#4)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue Nov 25, 2008 at 11:41:20 AM EST
    ...and NFL QB when you're serving time.  The jury is still out on whether he will a)find a team that wants to sign him and b) play him at QB.  

    Also, will the league reinstate him with the new, harsh penalties for legal misbehavior?

    If he doesn't get reinstated/signed, is that extra punishment too?  

    /has no sympathy for dog torturers

    If a team feels siging him will (none / 0) (#5)
    by scribe on Tue Nov 25, 2008 at 11:51:32 AM EST
    put butts in seats, they'll find a way to let him play.

    Remember, prior to this dog-fighting case blowing open, his jersey was the #1 seller among all NFL player jerseys (and then became all the more desirable because it was made unobtainable by the league).

    He made money for the team and the No Fun League, and, if they think they can make money from him again, they'll give it a try.


    He was, at best, an avererage QB... (none / 0) (#7)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue Nov 25, 2008 at 12:09:36 PM EST
    That doesn't mean that someone wouldn't sign him as a running back or wide receiver.  Even still, I doubt he will be making the same kind of $'s as before the bust.  

    I agree that if someone thinks he will make them money, he'll play again.  The NFL owners aren't immune to greed, after all.  


    As a fellow human being (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Nov 25, 2008 at 12:16:55 PM EST
    If he has paid his debt and he is still of benefit to his sport and can find employment why shouldn't he play?  How can it be an outrage if he does (though I'm sure for someone it will be)?  Can we get some Fairness around here :)?

    He hasn't served anytime on cruelty related (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by nycstray on Tue Nov 25, 2008 at 12:32:03 PM EST
    charges. And won't. He's doing less time than his dogs did. He's been doing this since 1999. And his "rejection" of his actions was pretty blatantly just for show. I'm sure his regrets were more about his loss of $$$ etc than for the actions he was charged with.

    If he didn't get a suspended sentence from the state, I would be 'fine' with him trying to go back to the NFL. He prob wouldn't be much of a player anymore (and I wouldn't watch a game with him in it), but could do off the field jobs.

    I'm sorry, but this guy really hit  a high level on cruelty, even for dog fighters. I think the only thing I've heard since that disgusted me as much was learning about "trunking". Ugh.


    He can play. (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by Fabian on Tue Nov 25, 2008 at 01:14:40 PM EST
    But his value for media and advertising has to be almost nil.

    Celebrity - it cuts both ways.


    Yes, no matter where he goes (none / 0) (#20)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Nov 25, 2008 at 01:22:06 PM EST
    from here he is forever branded as a horrible abuser of living things.  He can come to terms with what he did and demonstrate that to those who will know who he is on the streets.  He can try to run and hide from it and once you are a celebrity that usually ends up destroying the person.

    You don't sound like (none / 0) (#21)
    by Pepe on Tue Nov 25, 2008 at 01:23:28 PM EST
    a pet owner or lover of our furry little friends. I'm surprised at your lenient attitude toward what he did. As a felon in some states he cannot vote. He should not be able to play pro ball either. And frankly I an quite confident that he would be booed off the field until he quit.

    Vick is to animal lovers as OJ is to the Goldman's and Brown's.


    I love animals mucho (none / 0) (#27)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Nov 25, 2008 at 01:42:41 PM EST
    I have one three legged cat my daughter retrieved from a dumpster, 1 parrot (Josh's actually but who feeds him and cleans him?), 1 beta fish that is MINE, 1 turtle that has become mine, 12 German Shepherds (7 are on the smallish side).

    Then I am Shocked (none / 0) (#29)
    by Pepe on Tue Nov 25, 2008 at 01:46:54 PM EST
    at your lenient attitude toward Vick.

    Ever think... (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by kdog on Tue Nov 25, 2008 at 01:50:15 PM EST
    maybe Tracy is against all cruelty, even cruelty directed at the cruel?

    It's something definitely worth striving for...as hard an ideal as it is to live up to.


    asdf (none / 0) (#46)
    by Pepe on Tue Nov 25, 2008 at 02:59:02 PM EST
    It doesn't sound like Reno is lenient (none / 0) (#36)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Nov 25, 2008 at 01:59:45 PM EST
    Life as Vick knew it and understood it is completely over too. What is my goal here?  My goal is for Vick and people like Vick to understand that even if they weren't born with a conscience such behaviors and activities will not knowingly take place without severe punishment also taking place.  I'm thinking he's understanding that part.  I breed American Show German Shepherds and we Americans have goals for the breed that include that they not be aggressive in nature.  Sometimes with the best genetics you still can get a Ted Bundy.  I had a dog brutally kill one of our other dogs and I had to take her in and have her euthanized. I'll never known why she was who she was, but I didn't want her to suffer anymore than she had to.  She had no conscience though.  If Vick can live differently I don't really want anything more than that and if he can't there is always more prison.  I gave our girl many chances and worked with her too before I finally understood that we had all run out of options for her.  Have we run out of humane options for Vick?

    My original point Tracy (none / 0) (#45)
    by Pepe on Tue Nov 25, 2008 at 02:57:41 PM EST
    was in response to you being OK with him playing Pro Football again. I disagree with that. Some people get suspended from the league for drug violations. Those are the rules, no drugs or you are out. I think the league should take the same stance with certain crimes. Animal abuse to the extreme should be one of those crimes. This was not a guy who beat his pet, not that beating your pet is OK. This is a guy who had a stable of dogs with a death certificate attached who watched them maim and kill each other and financed the entire operation across several states. That is extreme and should be treated as such by Pro Football.

    Would I be OK if Vick went on to become a good citizen in another field? Sure. Any person should have a chance to make the most of themselves. But just not in football. If a drug abuser can be suspended from the league, then so should a felony torturer of animals. I feel strongly about that.

    Now if Vick went on to make the most of himself in another field would I be happy for him? Well personally I don't care what he does in the future any more than he cares about me. We don't know each other - other than I know him as a person who abused animals for sport. To me that is a bad person no matter how much time he served. I hope to never hear about him again unless he takes to talking to people about how wrong abusing animals is.


    I also lived in Korea as an Army spouse (none / 0) (#42)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Nov 25, 2008 at 02:18:14 PM EST
    and the rest of the world does not feel as we do about dogs.  Younger Koreans are beginning to not find dogs a tasty meal.  They like small dogs a lot as pets. The older Koreans still eat dogs though and to them dogs are nothing more than livestock.  A block down from my husband's apartment a shop owner kept an older Kelpie looking female who was pregnant by nonspecific dogs twice a year. She was usually quite thin and not well cared for, the family goal was to eat her babies and that is fine in Korea.  A puppy hung upside down in a tree and beaten to death is considered the most tender.  They do it in the mornings so if you are Amerian you must shut your windows if you don't want to hear.  For Muslims dogs are unclean.  GSD of America was really chapped when Muslims in the Netherlands complained about a picture of a German Shepherd puppy being on their magnets with the phone number for the police because dogs are unclean.  

    My guidebook for Vietnam (none / 0) (#47)
    by oculus on Tue Nov 25, 2008 at 03:00:29 PM EST
    warned that, during the de rigeur trip though outdoor market in each city, it was best to avoid the meat section altogether.  
    Have you read Tobias Wolff's book about early days in Vietnam as an American advisor?  Title:  In Pharoah's Army  Good read.  Segue:  dog.  

    I haven't read it but I'll have to now (none / 0) (#48)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Nov 25, 2008 at 03:05:55 PM EST
    My husband was telling me before that particular tour about how South Korea puts in place a lot of global style.  Yeah, right honey.  I get there though 8 yrs ago and they are wearing these horrific heals with flat narrow toes that go on for a mile. Two years later America thought that was cool.  On the little dogs that were going to the groomers, they would dye them bright pink, neon green and blue.....I couldn't believe it.  Some Americans are now finding that cool.

    They dye the dogs b/4 (none / 0) (#49)
    by oculus on Tue Nov 25, 2008 at 03:08:33 PM EST
    eating?  <snk>

    No....the younger Koreans who have (none / 0) (#65)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 11:18:46 AM EST
    pocket dogs for pets were dyeing those all these flourescent colors.  The older Koreans didn't want to fight them for a toy poodle I guess.  Another family though that was on a command sponsored three year tour brought their Chow with them.  Great big giant black dude....great big for a Chow.  When the girls would walk him sometimes Korean men would ask to try to pick him up to see how much he weighed.......like he was a fattened calf :)

    I don't despise Vick as much as some others (none / 0) (#24)
    by ChrisO on Tue Nov 25, 2008 at 01:31:47 PM EST
    although I certainly don't condone his actions. But the way "paid his debt" is used by many people always bugs me. It means he shouldn't be punished any more for his crime, not that we have to pretend it never happened.

    If someone borrows $100 dollars from me for a week, but doesn't pay it back for two years, I'm certainly not going to lend him more money because he's "paid his debt."


    Completely agree (none / 0) (#40)
    by samtaylor2 on Tue Nov 25, 2008 at 02:11:33 PM EST
    I am a huge dog lover- have the 2 best dogs in the word.  But he served the time that our law demanded.  

    The NFL owners are going to have to (none / 0) (#9)
    by nycstray on Tue Nov 25, 2008 at 12:19:12 PM EST
    weigh their greed. Whoever picks him up is going to face a battle and boycotts.

    I wonder how many parents are going to be ok with their kids watching a dog killer play football. No much of a role model there . . .


    If fans ain't boycotting over PSL's... (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by kdog on Tue Nov 25, 2008 at 12:26:25 PM EST
    they will not boycott over Vick.  Maybe a few PETA folks, but that is not exactly the NFL's core audience.

    Boycotts? (none / 0) (#10)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Nov 25, 2008 at 12:22:30 PM EST
    My kennel club will be boycotting by God, but they have always been so busy vaccinating, defleaing, microchipping, and pedipawing they never have gotten around to getting their season tickets :)

    He will be starting for the Raiders... (none / 0) (#11)
    by kdog on Tue Nov 25, 2008 at 12:24:07 PM EST
    in 2 years as long as Al Davis is still around.

    Or maybe my Jets after Favre retires.

    No symapthy for dog torturers either, but I am a big fan of second chances, and I do value a human life over a dogs.

    Besides, I thought Vick's involvement was bankrolling the whole operation, are we even sure he personally tortured any dogs?


    And got caught lying about it.
    The report, dated Aug. 28, 2008, says, "Vick, Peace and Phillips thought it was funny to watch the pit bull dogs belonging to Bad Newz Kennels injure or kill the other dogs." The report has names and phrases redacted in order to protect the anonymity of certain individuals who cooperated with investigators.

    The report also states in mid-April of 2007, Vick, Peace and Phillips hung approximately three dogs who did not perform well in a "rolling session," which indicates the readiness of a dog to fight. According to the report, the three men hung the dogs "by placing a nylon cord over a 2 X 4 that was nailed to two trees located next to the big shed. They also drowned approximately three dogs by putting the dogs' heads in a five gallon bucket of water."

    Vick initially told authorities "while he assisted Phillips and Peace in the killing of the dogs, he did not actually kill the dogs," but "helped Phillips toss several dogs to the side," according to the report.

    However, the report says Vick took back that statement when he failed a polygraph test. "Vick failed the examination as it related to the killing of the dogs in April 2007. Ultimately, Vick recanted his previous statement wherein he said he was not actually involved in the killing of six to eight dogs. ... Vick admitted taking part in the actual hanging of the dogs."

    Yes, read my link above (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by nycstray on Tue Nov 25, 2008 at 12:35:11 PM EST
    he personally participated in the cruel killings of his dogs. He tried to get people to think he was just the cash flow, but he flunked that one.

    I actually read some of the court documents, but still wasn't prepared to learn he thought his pits tearing at family pets was "funny".


    Thanks All... (none / 0) (#17)
    by kdog on Tue Nov 25, 2008 at 01:07:10 PM EST
    I stand corrected...pretty sick stuff to be sure.

    I have no problem... (5.00 / 2) (#53)
    by kdog on Tue Nov 25, 2008 at 03:44:20 PM EST
    with Vick being moved into a half-way house, or eventually playing ball again.

    He's been in a federal p.m.i.t.a. prison for a year or more, forfeited millions...that kind of punishment is nothing to sneeze at...if you've spent a couple hours, much less weeks or months, in a cage you'd know what I'm talking about.

    Murderers and torturers of human beings are punished less than Vick has been...I mean seriously, a little perspective?  Celebrities shouldn't get preferential treatment from the criminal justice system, but they also shouldn't get extra harsh treatment just because they are a celebrity.  

    All life should be respected, don't get me wrong...but am I the only one who values human life over canine life.  As other have mentioned, dogs are food in other parts of the world.  And we treat livestock like they treat dogs.


    In CA, post election, we treat (none / 0) (#54)
    by oculus on Tue Nov 25, 2008 at 03:48:13 PM EST
    our livestock quite well, thank you very much.

    Actually, he's serving very little time (none / 0) (#56)
    by nycstray on Tue Nov 25, 2008 at 04:15:53 PM EST
    for ALL of his crimes. He is only serving on conspiracy, and perhaps gambling or related charges (can't remember). He's not serving ANY time for cruelty to animals or dog fighting. Those would have been at the state level. If you look at the penalties all of his crimes carried at the Fed and State level, well, he's getting off pretty damn easy. By pleading guilty and getting the suspended sentence (arranged) he is making himself eligible for early release. Originally there was mention at the state level of charging him on several counts of animal cruelty and dog fighting. I think it was per (dead) dog. Those animals lost their lives, along with some family pets. No justice there.

    Something tells me he still doesn't get it except how it effects him.  


    Time served in cage... (none / 0) (#58)
    by kdog on Tue Nov 25, 2008 at 04:42:51 PM EST
    is time served in a cage stray...I assure you the charges the state decided to run with makes no difference when you're in that cage.  Everybody knows he is in a cage over what he did to those dogs...regardless of what it says on the paperwork.



    Unfortunately, it continues the pattern (none / 0) (#59)
    by nycstray on Tue Nov 25, 2008 at 05:16:51 PM EST
    of not handing down proper sentencing for animal cruelty/abuse. It's nothing more than a slap on the wrist (if that) generally. Having him serve time at the state level for the actual crimes of animal cruelty would have been justice. Iirc, the state was pretty non-committal about his actions and prob wouldn't have done diddly (as they ended up anyway) if there hadn't have been a federal case developing. If he hadn't crossed state lines. . . .  Again, he is not in jail because of what he did to those dogs, but for running a gambling/dog fighting operation. I don't think the Feds prosecute animal abuse. If they did, this would have been the judge to consider justice for the dogs.

    Also, gambling is a bannable (sp?!) offense in the NFL, so his reinstatement should take that into consideration. And prob will more so than the dog killing . . .

    One of the reasons we didn't pursue cruelty charges against the people that abused my dog is it prob would have cost her life and the courts wouldn't have done anything to the abusers. This was 6 yrs ago, but chances today aren't much better. Somewhat better because of where I live, but in many places, zero change.

    "The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated."
    - Mahatma Gandhi

    Vick is no human (none / 0) (#22)
    by Pepe on Tue Nov 25, 2008 at 01:26:37 PM EST
    Humans don't torture the innocent for entertainment.

    Coulda fooled me... (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by kdog on Tue Nov 25, 2008 at 01:31:06 PM EST
    the history of humanity is full of the torture of the innocent.

    Vick did terrible things, but he's no Hitler.  Or Caesar.  Or even Bush.


    No Caesar? (none / 0) (#26)
    by Pepe on Tue Nov 25, 2008 at 01:40:30 PM EST
    Caesar watched men maim, torture, and kill each other for pure entertainment.

    Vick did exactly the same thing with innocent dogs.

    He's a dirt bag, had his chance, blew it, and it should remain that way.

    Personally I hope when he gets out that he'll meet up with some of the fellas who have Louisville Sluggers so he can get a taste of what he dished out.


    Not for nothing... (none / 0) (#33)
    by kdog on Tue Nov 25, 2008 at 01:54:48 PM EST
    they do the same or worse in slaughterhouses everyday, and it is all legal.

    Ha! (none / 0) (#51)
    by Pepe on Tue Nov 25, 2008 at 03:20:45 PM EST
    You should quit while you can kdog. You are not exactly showing your compassionate side today when it come to domestic animals.

    Let me just recognize here that you had no response that Vick was exactly like Caesar, because he was. You said Vick was no Caesar, meaning Caesar was a bad person. Well so is Vick. In the same vein as Caesar.

    As for your last response about slaughterhouses - like I said you should quit while you can instead of digging deeper.

    The good Lord made it so man had to eat to live. So plants, which are alive also, and certain animal stock is a necessity to life, and we don't eat them alive! But domestic animals, who serve our needs in a much different way, in this country are not in that category of animal stock. Nor are they in the category of 'living creatures that are OK to abuse'. In fact as Vick knows there is a law against that. So your attempt at an analogy of killing animal stock and abusing domestic animals as one and the same I find not only disingenuous but a little on the sick side sorry to say.

    I really, honestly, sincerely, wish you had not said what you said so I didn't have to say what I said here. On many things we agree. On this - comparing slaughterhouses to dog fighting we are worlds apart but I am happy to say that on moral grounds I'm on the right side of the argument.


    Save your righteous indignation Pepe... (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by kdog on Tue Nov 25, 2008 at 03:52:08 PM EST
    Find Vick when he gets out and get your "justice" if you like, but I want no part of it.  The man has been punished enough, imo.

    The livestock comparison fits, in parts of the world dogs are food and cows are worshipped...ask a Hindu how he/she feels about how our culture treats cows.

    Vick is not exactly like Caesar...Caesar had humans killed for sport!  Now saying that a human has more value than a dog won't score me any points with PETA, but it is how I feel.  All life should be respected, but humans are not dogs and dogs are not humans...sorry.  Our society should be embarassed at how dogs are treated better than people.

    I rescued my dog off the street, so f*ckin' spare me allright.  Carry on with your demonizing party...I'm done.


    Wow man! (none / 0) (#57)
    by Pepe on Tue Nov 25, 2008 at 04:29:58 PM EST
    Like trying to equate slaughterhouses to illegally killing dogs in dogfights was not enough a stretch of credibility now you are tying to drag Hindus into your argument?

    What the hell do Hindus and cows have to do with Vick illegally killing domestic dogs? Different cultures my friend and as you know we are talking about American laws and cultural values and how people feel about our domestic pets - not Indian cows for crissakes.

    Look bottomline is you think Vick playing football again is worth more that an untold number of dogs lives. I get it!

    I also get that you don't care much that sports figures are roll models for children and how screwed up it would be that kids see a dog killer who did time go on to make millions of dollars because people don't value dogs as much as they do someone playing football. That is a great message to send the kids of this country. In fact it might just produce more Vick's who see that they can do bad things to living creatures and go right back to being a sports star role model without hardly skipping a beat.

    I would think that you being a Black Man recognize what Gangster Rap and it's promotion of being a bad ass who disrespects women has done to the Black & White youth of our nation. So why would you want to ignore sending out another bad message to those same youngsters? I just don't get it.


    Just trying... (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by kdog on Tue Nov 25, 2008 at 05:23:39 PM EST
    to put his crimes in perspective for those who would seemingly lock 'em up for life if they could.

    This isn't about Vick playing ball again my friend, though you're right, I'd enjoy seeing him play if he can still play.  And I prefer that professional athletes are the best athletes and not the best "role models".  But forget all that for a sec...any old-timer on Tl will tell ya I'd be defending him from the mob if his name was Joe Blow.

    To me man, this is about the vengeful nature of our criminal justice system.  This is about chaining and caging human beings being taken far too lightly.  This is about holding the criminal justice system, and society at large, to a higher standard than those among us who commit heinous acts.  Sh*t man...I've got a friend and neighbor locked up in cage for over 5 years...FIVE YEARS...for far less than what Vick did.  

    Wtf is wrong with us with our prisons overflowing?  Not the scum of the earth or criminals or criminals in name only...I mean society, the state, you and me...What the f*ck is wrong with us?  I don't get it either.

    And btw...I'm a white boy...Lebanese Mick:)



    Interesting . . . . (none / 0) (#61)
    by nycstray on Tue Nov 25, 2008 at 05:49:23 PM EST
    for far less than what Vick did.

    and therein lies part of my issue. If they had busted him for pot or some other type of minimal "crime", I'd be singing a different tune or not commenting at all. What he did was far more serious and it looks like it's not that big of deal judging by the sentence he got. The manner in which he killed dogs (and other treatment) was particularly cruel. It would be bad enough if he just put a shot to the brain, but slamming them on the ground until dead? Electrocuting? Hanging? (shades of Hucks kid!) Drowning? He did them ALL! Those are usually signs of something seriously wrong with a person in other cases. His lack of remorse didn't help and wasn't reassuring when considering his character.

    The dogs pre-rehab. Not at all what you would expect from a pit in a few (many?) of the dogs. They should be outgoing people loving dogs. Not fearful. They're generally little soldiers of good will. And these are the ones that lived. Some of the ones that went to Best Friends were in worse fear condition. Takes a lot to do that to a dog like a pit. Not their nature at all. We get a lot of them through the system here, some in pretty horrific condition. Rarely do they have temp probs with people.

    Ok, off to cook and lower my blood pressure  ;)


    I'm back... (none / 0) (#63)
    by kdog on Tue Nov 25, 2008 at 06:57:05 PM EST
    I thought cooking up a nice sirloin would lower my blood pressure...then I got to thinking about the suffering of the animal that became my dinner...being denied its natural diet, denied proper grazing space, being pumped full of drugs, and then having an electrode spiked through its brain.  And how I enable it without really giving two sh*ts because I love steak.

    I hear you loud and clear stray...and admire your passion for animals.  All I can say, again, is over a year in the federal pen is no light punishment.  A couple hours in a cell had me climbing the walls...I really can't imagine a year, or over 5 like my friend.    

    I just get so pissed off sometimes at people chanting "lock 'em up", "let 'em rot", "throw away the key"...there are symptoms there as well of the sickness you mentioned...the sickness human beings are capable of.  Is it as depraved as murdering a helpless animal for no reason?  No..but it is depraved none the less, and much more widespread.


    You're eating the wrong sirloin (none / 0) (#64)
    by nycstray on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 01:03:17 AM EST
    Mine comes from a ranch upstate, is raised humanely on a natural diet grazing the fields. Antibiotics are only used if absolutely necessary for health and to relieve pain/suffering. Ones that are treated are not available for the table. (or they have to wait a certain amount of time? sumpthin' like that) I bought a freezer and a side. The side worked out to 4.26lb. Prime rib roasts and all ;) I have a brisket brining in the fridge for the weekend. Slow-cooked some Mexican beef for tacos and burritos last night. I LOVE having a full freezer at my finger tips :) It also has dayboat and Alaskan seafood, free range poultry from my CSA and just added an extra organic turkey today. I also get my pork from the same ranch as the beef. I've found it works quite well with not only the sustainable lifestyle, but helps ya be frugle also. I save SO much money. And I'm not turning into a toxic experiment compliments of our government and big biz.

    I'm not a big throw away the key person, but I do like a bit of justice when it comes to the defenseless. I also understand your cage issue. It's also a problem with shelter animals. Some go cage crazy and we need to get them out or it becomes kinder to euth (last resort). I'm conflicted on locking up people for long periods, but for some, what the heck are you supposed to do with them? Many of us felt that Vick should serve time on the state charges with work duty at the city/county all-intake shelter. Ya know, cleaning cages, laundry, properly exercising the dogs. Taming feral kittens is always a fun one  ;)


    Sad and true (none / 0) (#30)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Nov 25, 2008 at 01:47:33 PM EST
    The only thing that keeps us in line is our better angels.  My better angels don't want Vick's head on a pike.  We just want him to do the time the system gives him and not to do anything like his past crime again.

    I hope for Vick's sake... (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by kdog on Tue Nov 25, 2008 at 01:52:28 PM EST
    he doesn't blow his second chance at freedom...otherwise he'll have a lynch mob after him, if reading some of these comments is any indication of general public sentiment.

    Up until the suspended sentence (none / 0) (#38)
    by nycstray on Tue Nov 25, 2008 at 02:04:09 PM EST
    I was less aggressive about his future and tried to avoid going the route I'm now on. But between reading the latest report about the family pets and the suspended sentence, I'm over it. He will not be paying for what I feel are the worst of his crimes. I'm just not down with that one. And his main focus has always seemed about doing whatever he could to get back on the field. He even went so far as to say he was an addict to try and soften/shorten his time. And that may be partly why he's getting the halfway house. I'd have to go back and look it up, but it was a legal move aimed in his favor.

    I think that if Vick were smart (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Nov 25, 2008 at 01:55:16 PM EST
    (although I think he's obviously not) he would step up and become the leader of a movement to ban dog fighting. He could create a positive place for himself through loads of hard work. And a thick skin. His epitaph could be about the good he did with his life. If he were smart...

    Absolutely (none / 0) (#37)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Nov 25, 2008 at 02:02:57 PM EST
    If he were smart... (none / 0) (#39)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue Nov 25, 2008 at 02:07:20 PM EST
    ...he would have watched his little brother throw away his football career and life and learned a lesson out of that.  

    But, his actions show that he didn't.  


    Segue: pro football. (none / 0) (#50)
    by oculus on Tue Nov 25, 2008 at 03:11:48 PM EST
    I saw something in NYT yesterday about Deion Sanders being on NFL Football.  How is he?  Fun to watch on baseball diamond.

    As a young man (none / 0) (#52)
    by Pepe on Tue Nov 25, 2008 at 03:28:59 PM EST
    I grew up in the 'hood, so I feel safe in saying this...

    You can take the boy out of the hood
    But sometimes you can't take the hood out of the boy.


    My Question Would Be... (none / 0) (#6)
    by CoralGables on Tue Nov 25, 2008 at 12:08:38 PM EST
    What taxpayers get stuck footing the bill to fly him cross country for no reason.

    same here (none / 0) (#41)
    by txpublicdefender on Tue Nov 25, 2008 at 02:12:18 PM EST
    That was my issue, too.  What a waste of taxpayer money, all so the judge can grandstand.  Nice.