Saturday Open Thread

Today is Saturday, which means college football for all patriotic, red blooded Americans . . .

The Mighty Gators have a virtual bye against the Citadel this afternoon. The big action will be in Norman, Oklahoma tonight, where the Sooners host the Red Raiders of Texas Tech.

It should be a barnburner.

In any event, Go Gators!

This is an Open Thread

Speaking for me only

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    I live in Washington (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sat Nov 22, 2008 at 11:26:02 AM EST
    I earned my first degree at Washington State University.

    I'm in the process of earning my second from University of Washington.

    Neither of my teams has an in-conference win this year.  Not one.

    However, one of my two Washington schools will get a win today -- because they'll play each other in the Apple Cup!  Soo, yayyy!

    In addition, WSU has bragging rights, because many analysts believe that their football team is the WORST in PAC 10 HISTORY.  Yes, as in the worst ever, ever, ever!

    So I can proudly say that WSU is having a record-setting season....

    A for good attitude. (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by oculus on Sat Nov 22, 2008 at 11:32:11 AM EST
    Don't count on a win yet (none / 0) (#15)
    by Pepe on Sat Nov 22, 2008 at 11:52:50 AM EST
    The game could end up 0-0. :O

    Grounds crew may remove goalposts (none / 0) (#30)
    by wurman on Sat Nov 22, 2008 at 12:47:42 PM EST
    before the game since they won't be needed for the "contest."

    Thank goodness for WSU (none / 0) (#29)
    by caseyOR on Sat Nov 22, 2008 at 12:45:57 PM EST
    For so long Oregon State was the punching bag of the Pac 10. They had 28 straight losing seasons. I am so grateful for the Cougars, although I am very sorry for your pain.

    And, as long as we're talking about Oregon State, the Beavers face Arizona tonight. If the Beavs win then only the Ducks stand in the way of Oregon State's first trip to the Rose Bowl since 1965. Yes, that's right, 1965.

    I did my college time in Illinois. So, I freely share my allegiance with all Oregon college teams unlike so many  whose love of the Ducks is exceeded only by their hatred of the Beavers and vice-versa.



    I got my Ph.D at the UW. (none / 0) (#41)
    by ThatOneVoter on Sat Nov 22, 2008 at 01:39:54 PM EST
    Back in the 80's, when I was a grad student, the new stadium collapsed during construction. My adviser could see that from his office. He was cheered by the sight.

    I just love (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by Pepe on Sat Nov 22, 2008 at 11:37:09 AM EST
    how a pantie waist schedule insertion of a annual non-powerhouse team is painted as a "virtual bye". lol.

    If the mighty Gators are all that "Mighty" then why didn't they schedule someone to play that would prove that point? Instead they play a team that guarantees them to be able to pad the win column.

    Frankly if I was a Gator fan I would be embarrassed.  If the Gators even play their starters at all today, for even one series of downs, they should be dropped from the Top Ten just on principle.

    Scheduling The Citadel is just not keeping in the spirit of competitive college football.

    *Speaking for college football fans everywhere.

    Pepe (5.00 / 3) (#10)
    by CoralGables on Sat Nov 22, 2008 at 11:43:44 AM EST
    Have you considered seeking professional help for your FGDS.

    I understand (none / 0) (#19)
    by Pepe on Sat Nov 22, 2008 at 12:06:15 PM EST
    how you can't refute a word I wrote.

    As they say - The Truth Hurts.

    Florida vs Citadel!!! LOL

    A Florida home game no less! Think it will be a sellout?

    Never mind, in reality it already is a sellout if you get my drift. :D


    Strength of Schedule (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by CoralGables on Sat Nov 22, 2008 at 12:37:03 PM EST
    Strength of Schedule Ratings put the Gators in the top 10.
    CBS Florida #7
    Sagarin Florida #8

    While you try to demean their schedule, I find no need to apologize for the Gators playing a top ten schedule. As a Gamecock fan you come in at a very respectable 16 and 22

    As for a sell out, the stadium seats 88,548 so expect 90,000 again.


    Non-logical (none / 0) (#42)
    by Pepe on Sat Nov 22, 2008 at 01:41:13 PM EST
    But first let me reemphasize that I am not a Gamecock fan. Last week I only made light of the fact that Florida could not score against their defense - when their defense was playing. That was indisputable.

    As for strength of schedule - Pleeeease. It is not like they have a choice of playing people in their conference. This season the conference is pretty strong. In other years it is other conferences that are strong. But to argue that you have no need to apologize for their schedule is non-logical seeing that it isn't any kind of argument at all because Florida MUST play those teams. It is not like their are choosing to play them. Gees.

    On the other hand when THEY HAVE A CHOICE of who to play it is teams like Citadel or Hawaii. LOL.

    Those are their games of choice. Do they dare schedule a Penn State, or a Big Ten school or someone similar? No way. Patsies is who the school chooses to play. I'm just reporting facts here. If you have issues with it take it up with the Athletic Director who does the so called scheduling. Playing patsies by choice is not playing football. Playing who you have to play is the luck of the draw but it isn't a badge of honor by any stretch.

    BTW, as I write this Florida is up 35-0 early in the 2nd. And Tebow is still playing! Against Citadel no less. Thump your chest about that!


    JFK was assassinated 45 years ago today... (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Sat Nov 22, 2008 at 07:34:31 PM EST
    It's OK to mention that I hope.

    Citadel = Gator - aid to schedule (none / 0) (#31)
    by wurman on Sat Nov 22, 2008 at 12:50:03 PM EST
    Go Ocelots (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by squeaky on Sat Nov 22, 2008 at 11:46:41 AM EST
    If there is not a team called the Ocelots there should be.

    More concern trolling (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by Manuel on Sat Nov 22, 2008 at 12:20:06 PM EST
    Wapo via MSN

    As President-elect Barack Obama moved closer to making Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton his choice for secretary of state, independent legal experts said unwinding some of the most nettlesome conflicts involving her husband's global fundraising would prove extraordinarily complicated.

    Is there a double standard when it comes to the Clintons and conflict of interest?  Am I too naive?  Too cynical?  Why can't I see the big problem these people are seeing in the situations described?  I am against unethical behavior in government as much as anyone (particularly for personal financial gain) but I am just not getting it.

    I don't get it either (5.00 / 2) (#34)
    by 1040su on Sat Nov 22, 2008 at 01:08:17 PM EST
    Back when the hub bub du jour was the Clinton's tax returns, I remember watching David Gregory talk about what was in the returns.  He spat out that he had made x amount (can't remember the $$ amount)from giving speeches - like it was laundered drug $$ or something.  Everything they do is met with such derision.

    Dead-eye Dick Cheney (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by wurman on Sat Nov 22, 2008 at 01:38:07 PM EST
    told 'em conflict of interest is for wusses & kept his Halliburton stock---correct?

    So why do the Beltway sissies give a rip about Pres. Clinton's totally charitable, non-profit 501(3c) operation & its sources or disbursments of money?


    Krugman: double standard Bush v Clinton finances (5.00 / 2) (#48)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Sat Nov 22, 2008 at 07:27:38 PM EST
    As ususal, Krugman gets it right: on the MSM histrionics, as compared to their total lack of attention to the Bush family's far more problematic business ties.

    More reason to like Joe and Jill Biden (5.00 / 2) (#32)
    by andgarden on Sat Nov 22, 2008 at 01:05:05 PM EST

    "I think he was far more interested in his children than the social whirl," said Senator Patrick J. Leahy, a longtime Biden friend. "I have to kid him a little bit, because he's no longer going to be asking, `Are we going to finish this vote by 7:45?' so he can make this mad dash to the train."

    Not that Mr. Biden will suddenly become a fixture at Washington dinner parties, predicted Mr. Leahy, who in his 34 years in the Senate has seen a few new administrations come to town. "Everybody loves to have the vice president over for dinner, and he'll have 100 invitations piling up," Mr. Leahy said. "But I think he can be very valuable to President Obama up on the Hill. That will be the most important place to be."

    Sally Quinn, the journalist and author, said that like the Obamas, who have spent little time in Washington, the Bidens will be social newcomers.

    "I've never seen Joe Biden at a party in Washington," Ms. Quinn said. "Both of those couples are going to be fresh faces, even though they've both been in the Senate and Biden's been here for a hundred years. It'll be very interesting to have them around."

    Mr. Kaufman, who has been a close Biden friend since the 1970s, said Mr. Biden was damaged politically by his absence on the social scene.

    "He did not participate in it," Mr. Kaufman said. "To be honest, it was a real hindrance, because when he ran for president in '87, people didn't know him. You could probably count on two hands the number of embassy functions he went to."

    [. . .]

    If she chooses to work, Dr. Biden's chosen profession is unlikely to raise any red flags. "It's almost impossible for me to imagine what kind of conflict there could be with a teacher," said Melanie Sloan, the executive director of Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington, a government watchdog group.

    An official at one Washington college said she hoped that Dr. Biden would come looking for a job there. "We would love it," said Elizabeth Homan, a spokeswoman for Montgomery College, one of the largest community colleges in the Washington area. "I think it would be a really pleasant surprise."

    Officials at Amtrak, however, were less enthusiastic about losing their high-profile customer.

    "We will miss having Senator Biden as a regular passenger," said Karina Romero, an Amtrak spokeswoman.

    I know that Amtrak route quite well, and NE members of Congress are regular fixtures, but none is more recognizable than Joe.

    One thing's for sure: this administration isn't going to kill Amtrak.

    Watch your backs, Joe and Jill (5.00 / 2) (#36)
    by caseyOR on Sat Nov 22, 2008 at 01:14:42 PM EST
    Sally Quinn excoriated the Clntons because they did not properly observe the social niceties of Washington, D.C. It forms the base of her irrational hatred of them.

    So, Bidens and Obamas, keep your backs to a wall when Sally Quinn is around.

    Yup (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by andgarden on Sat Nov 22, 2008 at 01:16:47 PM EST
    Wow! Congrats to Theresa on UT win (5.00 / 2) (#58)
    by Amiss on Sat Nov 22, 2008 at 10:40:26 PM EST
    and WTH happened to Texas Tech?

    Teresa (my bad) (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by Amiss on Sat Nov 22, 2008 at 10:58:18 PM EST
    Thanks! (none / 0) (#63)
    by Teresa on Sat Nov 22, 2008 at 11:51:37 PM EST
    I was still sad. When they interviewed Fulmer, he teared up again. I don't think most people realized he was so emotional. He always acted so reserved. He will need medication to get through this week...his last as a Vol.

    I feel bad for Texas Tech. It was one of those games where you just want to start all over because everything is going wrong. I hated it for them. It looks like Oklahoma/Florida doesn't it?


    I was about to ask which would a (none / 0) (#65)
    by oculus on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 01:28:03 AM EST
    die hard Gators fan prefer his/her team to face?  

    I think BTD said he would prefer Texas. (none / 0) (#66)
    by Teresa on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 01:33:26 AM EST
    Or at least not Oklahoma.

    Not Oklahoma (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 08:15:57 AM EST
    Last night should explain why.

    I want Penn State!!! How come everyone has discounted Penn State . . . ??



    I'm not discounting them... (none / 0) (#69)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 11:36:38 AM EST
    aside from my Hawks crushing the Golden Gophers yesterday (held them to 7 yards rushing!) behind another record setting performance from Heisman candidate Shonn Greene, PSU looked pretty sharp against a good MSU team (maybe next year, Steve M).  

    I'm not sold on any of the Big 12 teams yet for one reason--the conference on the whole is defensively deficient.  And we all know defense is what wins National Championships.  Texas Tech was exposed as a fraud yesterday when having to face a defense that is decent (for the Big 12) in Oklahoma.  I think the same thing happens to TX/OK when they have to face a top defensive team.  

    I've heard all of talk that the Big Ten is down this year, it's boring, yada yada.  I'd still take PSU over Texas or Oklahoma because at least they know how to play defense.  


    How about Ball State? (none / 0) (#70)
    by oculus on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 12:51:25 PM EST
    Yawn. Anyone seen "Synecdoche"? (none / 0) (#1)
    by oculus on Sat Nov 22, 2008 at 10:58:46 AM EST
    Anyone know how to pronounce it?

    Sin ek do Key (none / 0) (#3)
    by squeaky on Sat Nov 22, 2008 at 11:09:33 AM EST
    I believe. A close relative to metonmy.  

    twenty sails, or head of state, head of cattle. A part that represents the whole.


    You got the pronunciation right (none / 0) (#13)
    by scribe on Sat Nov 22, 2008 at 11:48:10 AM EST
    there, squeak.

    One Of My Faves (none / 0) (#14)
    by squeaky on Sat Nov 22, 2008 at 11:51:57 AM EST
    Still trying to figure out the subtle difference between synecdoche and metonymy. I have resolved that they are pretty much interchangeable.

    oh. (none / 0) (#43)
    by cpinva on Sat Nov 22, 2008 at 01:45:42 PM EST
    i thought it was some effete way of saying "okee dokee".

    the things i learn here! trivia for the educated minority. lol


    Synecdoche... (none / 0) (#47)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Sat Nov 22, 2008 at 07:16:33 PM EST

    Nifty Audio Pronunciation (none / 0) (#55)
    by squeaky on Sat Nov 22, 2008 at 09:21:53 PM EST
    Wow, that audio pronunciation thing (none / 0) (#62)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Sat Nov 22, 2008 at 11:50:29 PM EST
    is great! I bookmarked it for future use.

    There's a site someplace that has an audio pronunciation of major fashion designer names. I mean, where would you begin with something like "Balenciaga". (If memory serves, it's pronounced ba-len-c-ah-gah.)


    The Name Game (none / 0) (#2)
    by lilburro on Sat Nov 22, 2008 at 11:07:18 AM EST
    WaPo tells us Marine Gen. James Jones is the favorite for national security advisor.  Gates looks like he is going nowhere (to "many Democrats"...I wouldn't be surprised if Obama surprised them).  And then three candidates for national intelligence:

    Obama has also been meeting with possible candidates for other posts, including director of national intelligence. One name that has surfaced as a possibility in recent days is retired Adm. Dennis Blair, a former chief of the U.S. Pacific Command. Others said to be possibilities include John Brennan, a former CIA analyst who worked his way up the agency ladder, and Sen. Chuck Hagel (R-Neb.). A member of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence and a former Army officer and businessman, Hagel has strong Capitol Hill support and is respected within the national security community as a nonpartisan analyst of intelligence issues.

    Bleh.  Don't know much about Blair, but no doubt Hagel and Brennan fit perfectly into the media narrative.

    "national intelligence?" (none / 0) (#9)
    by NYShooter on Sat Nov 22, 2008 at 11:41:52 AM EST
    Boy, the oxymorons are flying this morning!

    Also (none / 0) (#4)
    by lilburro on Sat Nov 22, 2008 at 11:20:13 AM EST
    Will Clinton Fill State Dept With Loyalists?  

    An interesting question.  A lot of the "Democratic official" quotes just sound like Beltway whining though.  

    And yeah I doubt that Clinton's going to bring in Samantha Power.  <snark>

    In college football, is it considered (none / 0) (#8)
    by oculus on Sat Nov 22, 2008 at 11:38:10 AM EST
    kosher for multiple members of the defense to celebrate after sacking the player with the ball?

    They are not celebrating (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by Pepe on Sat Nov 22, 2008 at 11:55:21 AM EST
    It is actually a male fertility dance.

    Using the term, "kosher" (none / 0) (#12)
    by NYShooter on Sat Nov 22, 2008 at 11:47:55 AM EST
    automatically implies that menmbers celebrate after sacking the player WITHOUT the ball.

    "Repel them, repel them,
    Make them relinquish the ball."

    (from my 2 yrs of MIT football.....Take THAT, BTD)


    Hey, just answer the question. (none / 0) (#16)
    by oculus on Sat Nov 22, 2008 at 11:54:12 AM EST
    Not that it matters anymore.  Poor ole U of M looks like high school jv today.

    Only down by 2 touchdowns... (none / 0) (#21)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Sat Nov 22, 2008 at 12:13:49 PM EST
    ...even though the Michigan QB can't throw the ball any better than a 3rd grader.  

    I'm still hoping for a upset though--come on Wolverines!  


    Today is what the sports media calls (none / 0) (#17)
    by scribe on Sat Nov 22, 2008 at 11:54:32 AM EST
    "Rivalry Saturday".  This term, BTW, is less than 10 years old.

    When teams play their forever rivals.

    Harvard - Yale, Michigan - Ohio State, you get the idea.

    The game which, if it's the "1" in a 1-9 season, still means the season was successful.

    The only thing better than a sunny day for watching your college's game on "rivalry day" is the last game of your high school football season starting at 10 or 11 am on Thanksgiving Day, followed by winning it, then going home for Turkey and football on TV.

    The last college football I attended (none / 0) (#20)
    by oculus on Sat Nov 22, 2008 at 12:10:49 PM EST
    (other than the Rose Bowl) was Michigan v. OSU at Ann Arbor.  Sleet, freezing rain, very cold and wet.  Really really terrible weather.  Then we moved to southern California!

    You just made me realize this (none / 0) (#22)
    by nycstray on Sat Nov 22, 2008 at 12:15:43 PM EST
    morning could have been worse than it was! I just got in from a couple hours out in the cold with wind chills in the teens. And the wind was def making it's presence known! At least the sun was out and it was dry  :) Now, if my feet would only thaw out . . .

    When it was below 40 degrees and the (none / 0) (#50)
    by oculus on Sat Nov 22, 2008 at 08:09:14 PM EST
    wind was 40 mph last weekend in Manhattan, why is it hardly anyone on the street was wearing a hat?  I didn't want all those people who I don't know to think I was a dork so, of course, I didn't wear my hat either.  

    Perhaps (none / 0) (#51)
    by squeaky on Sat Nov 22, 2008 at 09:11:53 PM EST
    It felt colder to you than NYers, because you are from warmer climes.

    Could be, although, except for (none / 0) (#52)
    by oculus on Sat Nov 22, 2008 at 09:15:29 PM EST
    my ears, I felt warm.  Of course I love traipsing around Manhatten in any and all types of weather.

    Last Night (none / 0) (#53)
    by squeaky on Sat Nov 22, 2008 at 09:18:36 PM EST
    You would not have enjoyed it much. Unless you had some nice wind proof clothes and a good hat. It was freezing and very windy.

    Back to the drawing bd. on (none / 0) (#54)
    by oculus on Sat Nov 22, 2008 at 09:20:43 PM EST
    my relocation fantasy!

    It Gets Cold (none / 0) (#56)
    by squeaky on Sat Nov 22, 2008 at 09:24:23 PM EST
    In winter, although you can winter in LA, or somewhere warm. Also the summer is often not only hot but humid.

    Maybe there are Opera time shares?


    Something Like This? (none / 0) (#59)
    by squeaky on Sat Nov 22, 2008 at 10:56:11 PM EST
    lol!~ (none / 0) (#61)
    by nycstray on Sat Nov 22, 2008 at 11:22:51 PM EST
    full kitchen and dining room?! would love to see a pic of the spacious bathroom! I'm wondering if the living room was the blue couch?

    What's the catch here? (none / 0) (#64)
    by oculus on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 01:26:07 AM EST
    THe Catch? (none / 0) (#68)
    by squeaky on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 10:58:19 AM EST
    Don't know. But there are others on the craig's list vacation rentals for Manhattan that seem good too.

    With this sort of thing you can get a Met subscription and book the place around the subscription. It is not the nicest part of town, near a hospital, tunnel traffic, and not such nice character, but it is walking distance to Lincoln center.


    I really don't care about the neighborhood (none / 0) (#71)
    by oculus on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 12:52:46 PM EST
    except as to relative safety for a solo, female pedestrian.  The idea is to spend as little time as possible in the room/neighborhood.  

    Then I Doubt (none / 0) (#72)
    by squeaky on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 02:58:13 PM EST
    That there is a catch, just a very good rate.

    Thanks. (none / 0) (#73)
    by oculus on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 03:05:28 PM EST
    I'm aiming for late March, so hope it holds 'til then.

    Heh, it was 28 when I got home from the CSA (none / 0) (#57)
    by nycstray on Sat Nov 22, 2008 at 09:25:27 PM EST
    and I wasn't wearing a hat, lol!~ It was my feet and hands that were cold. For some reason my ears were fine until I got within a block of my home. The other 2 CSA folks were wearing hats, but they were having the same issue as me, cold feet. We jumped around a lot ;)

    I usually go for hats around the 20 degree mark unless there's a lot of wind. I had a hood on my coat if I needed it, which is sometimes easier than a hat (long hair). Honestly, I don't like to get too toasty out in the cold. I like having my head free. What I don't like is earrings feeling like they are freezing through my ears. Weird thing today was none of the produce froze! You'd think the baby greens would have gotten a bit damaged, but they look (and taste!) great.


    I skipped on my college's big rivalry game (none / 0) (#28)
    by scribe on Sat Nov 22, 2008 at 12:44:59 PM EST
    today.  The final straw (not that I was earnest about going) was finding out that the Dean of Students had decreed "no tailgating" in one of the bigger parking lots.  Apparently, some fraternities and their alumni (the college has gone through a bout of disestablishing most of its fraternities over the last 20 years, in what boiled down at its core to a real estate grab) and sports teams and their alumni were actually meeting and enjoying the company of their old friends.  With the adults [shudder] responsibly enjoying a few adult beverages with their bonhomie.

    Not that getting alumni back to campus and making sure they have a good time is a bad idea for the college's bottom line or anything.

    I guess their endowment's big enough that they don't need us anymore.  They need not call me (but they will).


    Who cares about Big 12 "football"! (none / 0) (#23)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Sat Nov 22, 2008 at 12:18:05 PM EST
    The real action tonight is the battle for Floyd of Rosedale.  The Hate Bowl.  Iowa v. Minnesota at Kinnick North.  

    Now that's real football!

    Thought of the day: (none / 0) (#25)
    by andgarden on Sat Nov 22, 2008 at 12:31:36 PM EST
    knuckles bleed too much when you scrape them with a cheese grater. Chapstick stops the bleeding.

    (Yes, ouch.)

    Get an aloe plant. (none / 0) (#27)
    by scribe on Sat Nov 22, 2008 at 12:38:38 PM EST
    Mine is doing fabulously in a sunny window, after a summer outside.

    heh (none / 0) (#33)
    by andgarden on Sat Nov 22, 2008 at 01:05:56 PM EST
    Thanks, but I don't think I can quite bring myself to rub a plant on a cut.

    It works. (none / 0) (#38)
    by scribe on Sat Nov 22, 2008 at 01:20:28 PM EST
    It The Juice (none / 0) (#39)
    by squeaky on Sat Nov 22, 2008 at 01:25:17 PM EST
    Not the plant but the juice inside. Much better than chap stick. Great for sunburn as well.

    Hey BTD (none / 0) (#35)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Nov 22, 2008 at 01:13:28 PM EST
    Have you forgotten about a team called Alabama?

    Looks like you will have to play them twice.

    I'd wait a bit before picking out who I want to play for the NC if I were you.


    sorry BTD, (none / 0) (#44)
    by cpinva on Sat Nov 22, 2008 at 01:47:46 PM EST
    i can't think of too many things less interesting than college football. now, if the female cheerleaders were all wearing thongs............................!

    tarpon fishing or college football? tough call, NOT!

    Sigh, innocent substitute teacher (none / 0) (#45)
    by boredmpa on Sat Nov 22, 2008 at 04:09:26 PM EST
    Just got scared out of her license after being abused by the justice system.

    This is the substitute teacher that was having to use a windows 98 machine with autodated virus scanners and that had porn popups appear.  They originally found her guilty, and ultimately she gave up her license and accepted a misdemeanor disorderly conduct 'deal.'

    This is a travesty of justice from what I've read of the case.  They basically broke her and then took away her right to recover anything, even her livelihood.   and she thinks she won...she should have had a lawsuit for lost wages and slander

    autodated = outdated (none / 0) (#46)
    by boredmpa on Sat Nov 22, 2008 at 04:09:57 PM EST
    obviously :)