Tuesday Morning Open Thread

Enough from me, now let's hear from you.

This is an Open Thread.

BTW, Bill Maher (I know I know) is good here on CDS.

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    Maher is right (5.00 / 9) (#15)
    by Steve M on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 10:05:20 AM EST
    For the most part, the people who hate Clinton drama and the people who create Clinton drama are the same people.

    Arianna or the Cleentons (5.00 / 5) (#25)
    by lentinel on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 10:38:49 AM EST
    Arianna's little reference to the SofS position being dangled before Hillary and us is so stupid and mean-spirited that it is exhausting to listen to her. It seems as if the election of Obama is not enough to satisfy her. She must rid the country of the Cleentonz. Why? She is the one with the psychotic fixation. I'd rather that Obama reached across whatever it is he is reaching across to tap Hillary than the ominous prospect of any kind of partnership with Mr. BombIran.

    Arianna is just another (5.00 / 7) (#28)
    by Jjc2008 on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 10:58:58 AM EST
    sanctimonious hypocrite.
    This is a woman who hung out with Newt Gingrich for heaven's sake.  She was demonzing everything Clinton in the 90s....she was a real right wing tool.
    Suddenly she's a progressive?????  Give me a break.  She's a mean spirited, self aggrandizing *%$##@@@

    Can't stand her.


    Exhausting.... (5.00 / 4) (#32)
    by Stellaaa on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 11:09:08 AM EST
    she sounds like my nasty aunt, I cannot stand her voice.  

    Damn.... (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by kdog on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 10:55:15 AM EST
    those Somali pirates made some score...Link.

    That was something. (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by Stellaaa on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 10:57:52 AM EST
    When do you think they will get the Nuclear submarine?

    Heh. (none / 0) (#38)
    by liminal on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 12:28:58 PM EST
    They made out much better than the Russian thieves who stole a church:

    The building had stood near the village of Komarovo since 1809.

    It was intact in July but some time in early October thieves made off with it brick by brick, they said.

    The foundations and bits of the wall are all that remain.


    And Then There Is (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by squeaky on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 12:43:22 PM EST
    The stolen beach mystery in Jamaica.

    Pristine beaches are over-rated (none / 0) (#48)
    by CST on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 02:13:49 PM EST
    When I was there, I just kept thinking - where's the seaweed???  Maybe someone stole it to make sushi...

    We need to bring some authenticity back to the beach.  Maybe if there was more seaweed and jellyfish there would be fewer people :)

    Then again, I am also used to swimming in the North Atlantic, where there are only a half-dozen people crazy enough to get in the water anyway.


    Authenticity (none / 0) (#50)
    by squeaky on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 02:29:16 PM EST
    Well maybe Disney could do a theme beach, mechanical jelly fish and fake seeweed.. throw in a few rubber syringes for old time's sake.

    Most of my swimming has been in NYC beaches, robert moses is my fave..


    I'm in the half-dozen.... (none / 0) (#51)
    by kdog on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 02:29:26 PM EST
    though your Atlantic waters are a tick colder than mine:)

    Where is the seaweed and why can I see my feet?...lol  And don't forget the rocky ocean floor that's murder on the feet:)


    Heh. (none / 0) (#52)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 02:40:13 PM EST
    Ocean City will always have a special place in my heart--jellyfish stings aside!

    My favorite beach (none / 0) (#54)
    by CST on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 03:05:28 PM EST
    Is definitely no-where near the city, any city.

    Actually, the Clinton's made the location of my beach almost too snobby to mention - since it's on the Vineyard.  Which used to be much more of a local spot when I was a kid than it is today (back when it was Martha's Vineyard instead of THE Vineyard).  That's one of my personal beefs with the Clintons, but I guess they deserve a vacation place too...

    Tons of broken shells, seaweed, jelly fish, crazy undertow, freezing water, and if you know the right spots - no people.

    Although if all else fails, I have been known to swim in the harbor...


    I'm sure I would be amazed... (none / 0) (#39)
    by kdog on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 12:35:05 PM EST
    Piracy on the high seas seems so 16th century to me.

    I know it ain't righteous in the least...but is it wrong to crack a little grin at the thought of the Saudis losing a tanker larger than an aircraft carrier to a rag-tag bunch of Somali pirates?  Color me impressed at the cajones of the pirates...not righteous, but impressive.

    I just hope George doesn't get us too involved, being good buddies with the Saudi tyrants and all...we don't need to be sending our young back into Somalia to get shot at...been there, done that.

    The only direction I wanna see US troops moving is back home to their families where they belong...pipe dream, I know...we've got an empire to defend, at least until we go totally busto.


    Arrrrrhhhh..... (none / 0) (#53)
    by desertswine on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 02:49:37 PM EST
    it's the pirate's life for me, Matey.
    Yo ho ho!!!

    Add another one to the list... (none / 0) (#44)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 01:54:44 PM EST
    Somali pirates hijacked their seventh ship in 12 days on Tuesday, as the U.S. Navy reported that pirates had seized an Iranian cargo ship in the Gulf of Aden.

    U.S. Navy Commander Jane Campbell of the Bahrain-based 5th Fleet said the bulk cargo carrier was flying a Hong Kong flag but was operated by the Islamic Republic of Iran Shipping Lines. The status of the crew or the cargo was not known, she said.



    Wow... (5.00 / 3) (#46)
    by kdog on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 02:05:49 PM EST
    these guys are on fire!

    An Iranian ship?  Scratch the plans to invade Somalia, they're gunning for a medal of fredom:)


    Irony: again (5.00 / 5) (#29)
    by Stellaaa on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 11:00:12 AM EST
    Arianna asks if the "Clintons are with us".  Lets see, were the Clintons ever married to a Republican seeking the Senate seat and being Republicans?  Were the Clintons ever anti feminist like Madame Huffington was in her college  days?  NO.   Is this the new vetting?

    Maher himself (5.00 / 3) (#30)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 11:04:41 AM EST
    had CDS, besides being the sexist pig he is.  Therefore I guess he'd be an expert on the subject.

    I know I know (5.00 / 2) (#31)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 11:05:31 AM EST
    That's why this (5.00 / 2) (#34)
    by nemo52 on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 11:11:55 AM EST
    surprises me no end.  I couldn't listen to his sexist rants during the primary.  I would have thought he had nothing reasonable to say about Hillary or Bill.

    Matthews has (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by JThomas on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 12:10:35 PM EST
    been supportive of the possible selection of Hillary Clinton as SoS on Hardball the last two shows.

    He has a love/hate relationship with the clintons,it seems.

    Just playin' the game. (none / 0) (#43)
    by Fabian on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 01:27:41 PM EST
    Would it look good to the new admin if Matthews jumped all over Obama's SoS pick?

    mmnn, I don't think so.  


    I'm finally over rushing to check (none / 0) (#1)
    by andgarden on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 09:35:50 AM EST
    the latest poll numbers and I'm feeling a little bit optimistic about the new Presidency. Watching the whole 60 Minutes interview last night helped.  

    Take a cool shower, (none / 0) (#3)
    by scribe on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 09:38:36 AM EST
    and go read my new diary before you wind up popping a gasket with Obama fandom.

    Oh, that issue still concerns me. (none / 0) (#4)
    by andgarden on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 09:42:25 AM EST
    I said as much two nights ago. "Trust but verify." Remember?

    Hey, andgarden (none / 0) (#6)
    by Democratic Cat on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 09:47:19 AM EST
    How'd that blue book thing work out?

    Well, (none / 0) (#10)
    by andgarden on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 09:55:00 AM EST
    Compare My successful memo (2008) (rejecting cynicism, student completes assignment), and My Aching Head (2008) (pound, pound, pound).



    Is there any treatment (none / 0) (#2)
    by Fabian on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 09:38:06 AM EST
    for outrage addiction?

    I think there is, because I seem to be almost immune to it now.  I guess when you feel like you've been played for a fool more than once, you get really suspicious when someone tries to push your buttons.

    Just trying to figure out the crowd over at dkos.  It seems easy to make them jump to conclusions and hard to make them think.

    That's the so-called "wisdom of crowds" (5.00 / 3) (#5)
    by scribe on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 09:43:56 AM EST
    In fact, it's the inherent flaw in Kos' model.  His site can inform and move a large number of people, but only the popular ideas get through the clutter.  

    Express an unpopular idea - even a true one - and you get troll-rated into non-existence.

    I'm getting tired of all the gloating and rubbing Republicans' faces in their own crap, which has been going on over there.  They sound exactly like National Review circa November 1984, goofing on the Democrats and Mondale.

    Time to grow up and start pounding Democrats who want to move to the right for no reason other than it feels good to get that Village Oral Lovin'. And because it feels good to whack on their own base - us.


    At least they like to whup (none / 0) (#9)
    by Fabian on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 09:49:10 AM EST
    on Lieberman but even that gets boring

    And the Palin diaries!  Concern trolling the GOP?  Not an effective way to push progressive values, IMO.  


    Not that whupping on Lieberman (none / 0) (#21)
    by scribe on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 10:18:24 AM EST
    actually accomplished anything....

    Flaw? (none / 0) (#12)
    by LarryInNYC on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 09:56:50 AM EST
    it's the inherent flaw in Kos' model.

    The guy makes a perfectly good living writing a hundred words a day or so.  My business model should be so flawed!

    Express an unpopular idea - even a true one - and you get troll-rated into non-existence.

    In fairness, I have to say that I express unpopular views there frequently and have essentially never been troll-rated.


    That's cuz I am not there anymore (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 10:00:42 AM EST
    I would be troll rating the hell out of you.

    Big talk, no follow through. (none / 0) (#20)
    by LarryInNYC on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 10:17:47 AM EST
    Not only did you never troll rate me while you were there, you promised me as @ss-kicking and never delivered it!

    Plus, the unpopular opinions I express there are not infrequently your own.


    I should have been more specific (5.00 / 4) (#18)
    by scribe on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 10:16:57 AM EST
    I was not talking about his business model - that works just fine.  In reality, it's the same model that has been in use since the invention of interchangeable parts and mass production.

    I wastalking about his model for social change.  By ignoring, overlooking and not even being aware of the follies of the past, you wind up (ultimately) with a bunch of people shouting mindless slogans and following the loud, winking idiot with frameless glasses and a tight blouse right over a cliff.

    The point of building a movement for social change is not just putting our people in the jobs currently held by their people.  Because, such an approach is merely substituting one set of clowns for the other.  Had the Founders followed that model, we'd all have pictures of the Queen on our wall, like they do in England and Canada (sometimes).  The point is, rather, to put people who understand what the rights are that have to be protected (e.g., all those rights protected by the Bill of Rights are actually your - and my - birthright and are therefore inalienable) and have the capacity for creative thinking on how to meet the challenges of changing conditions while still protecting those rights.

    Truth be told, Kos' site is becoming a tool.  A useful tool, but a tool nonetheless.  And that crowd is, in gloating, cheering, booing and running in concert, being used by the people they think they are replacing, reforming, or redirecting.  In other words, they're getting played.

    And that's the inherent flaw - it has no protection against and is (deliberately) susceptible to being used and played.


    Shorter (none / 0) (#24)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 10:36:14 AM EST
    Meet the new boss, just like the old boss.



    the cure (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 09:48:05 AM EST
    is to stay at Talk Left.

    DKos is what it is. you know what it offers. For what it is, it is the best site possible.

    If you want something different, then you should visit other sites.


    Just trying to figure (none / 0) (#13)
    by Fabian on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 09:58:01 AM EST
    out the phenomena.

    They have a great DIY home improvement diary!  As for the political stuff, outside of live blogging hearings, I can usually tell by the title what the slant is.  Gone are the days when I would look for the Good Stuff to uprate.  Now I just scan to see what the "wisdom of the crowds" is.  


    I don't really (none / 0) (#16)
    by rooge04 on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 10:08:21 AM EST
    know why anyone even goes over there.

    I haven't gone to DKos since about January of last year when I saw the CDS rear its ugly head at the beginning of the primaries. I'm not a self-flaggelator so I don't understand why anyone would go over there now.


    Well.... (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by marian evans on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 11:11:14 AM EST
    You can lead dkos to water, but you can't make them think...

    Matthews' Public Anti-Hillary-Rant! (none / 0) (#7)
    by JoeCHI on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 09:48:02 AM EST
    NYP reports that Chris Matthews was heard loudly ranting against the Clintons while traveling between Philadelphia to DC last Saturday.

    After awaking from a nap during which he snored non-stop, a fellow passenger asked Matthews about tomorrow's news.  Matthews opened his mouth, and his predictable anti-Clinton derangement spewed forth:

    "I don't understand it," Matthews bellowed. "Why would he pick her? I thought we were done with the Clintons. She'll just use it to build her power base. It's Machiavellian. And then we'll have Bill Clinton, too. I thought Obama didn't want drama. He's already got [chief of staff Rahm] Emanuel and [transition team leader John] Podesta. He'll have even more drama with her.

    "She's just a soap opera. If he doesn't pick her, everyone will say she's been dissed again, we'll have to live through that again."

    A rep for Matthews didn't return e-mails.

    I'm agnostic about Clinton taking SoS.  If she wants it, great!  We'd be lucky to have her.  If she doesn't, no biggie.  

    That said, if she does take it, I will certainly enjoy watching Matthews, Kerry, Richardson, and all the other CDS sufferers deal with their fits and seizures that will inevitably ensue.

    What a piece of work (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by Steve M on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 10:14:17 AM EST
    I have no idea if Matthews really intends to seek the Democratic nomination for Senate, but he has a really strange way of going about it if so.

    If Matthews gets the nomination, (none / 0) (#19)
    by andgarden on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 10:17:12 AM EST
    Specter will coast.

    If he retires, I think we're likely to run Rep. Allyson Schwartz, and I like her chances.


    Will Specter run again? (none / 0) (#22)
    by Steve M on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 10:21:09 AM EST
    I have to respect his toughness.

    Sez he wants to (none / 0) (#23)
    by andgarden on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 10:30:51 AM EST
    I expect the Club for Growth to go after him again. That's why we have to have a credible Democrat running.

    If it gives Matthews fits (none / 0) (#11)
    by Fabian on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 09:55:01 AM EST
    then I'm all for it!

    He'll have to be all respectful and on his best behavior.  No more "Junior Senator from New York", it could be "Madame Secretary"!


    Any thoughts as to why.... (none / 0) (#37)
    by kdog on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 12:28:16 PM EST
    the SEC is wasting their time and our money going after Mark Freakin' Cuban over a measley couple hundred grand stock trade?

    I would imagine they'd have much bigger fish commiting much bigger frauds to fry...first Martha Stewart and now this?  I smell something shady going down at the SEC...very shady.

    Somebody really doesn't want him... (none / 0) (#40)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 12:36:25 PM EST
    ...owning the Cubs.  Probably the Chicago "machine" that stole the election and makes alcohol stay in the blood of the good people of Wisconsin for 30 days.  

    Cubbies conspiracy.... (none / 0) (#41)
    by kdog on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 12:42:35 PM EST
    Could be, could be...I was thinking maybe David Stern had a connect in the SEC...ya know he'd love to be rid of the very outspoken Cuban once and for all.  

    Perhaps... (none / 0) (#45)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 02:02:16 PM EST
    ...the NBA, MLB and the SEC are all in on it together in some weird alphabet-soup collusion.

    Stranger things have happened--like the end to the Steelers/Chargers game the other day.  A lot of gamblers took a bath on that last (non)play. One would almost think the Refs had a little debt hanging over their heads that they wanted to settle...


    Weird play.... (none / 0) (#47)
    by kdog on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 02:09:03 PM EST
    and the action was heavy on the Steelers...add MGM and Harrah's to the list of co-conspirators:)

    Things that make you go hmmmmm... (none / 0) (#49)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 02:18:22 PM EST
    An estimated 100 million dollars was wagered worldwide on the Pittsburgh/San Diego game, according to RJ Bell of Pregame.com. Approximately 66% of that money was on the Steelers; with only 34% on the Chargers.

    If the touchdown was properly upheld, Steelers bettors would have won about 32 million dollars instead of losing big. This admittedly incorrect call resulted in a 64 million dollar swing in favor of the bookies.


    The Stillers were a 5 point favorite.  Hmmm.


    Obama On GLobal Warming (none / 0) (#55)
    by squeaky on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 04:04:55 PM EST
    Nice youtube of him for the Governors Global Climate Summit.

    via digby

    Cheney & Gonzales Indicted (none / 0) (#56)
    by squeaky on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 05:22:36 PM EST
    McALLEN, Texas -- A South Texas grand jury has indicted Vice President Dick Cheney and former Attorney General Alberto Gonzales on charges related to the alleged abuse of prisoners in Willacy County's federal detention centers

    link via think progress