Pseudo Sully

Bob Somerby on Josh Marshall.

I'll make this an Open Thread.

Cite to Somerby on Marshall endorsed solely by me.

< U.S. Drops Charges Against 5 Detainees, Will Refile After Election | Chicago Cop Who Denied Torture Is Indicted >
  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft

  • Display: Sort:
    hehehehehe (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by andgarden on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 12:36:50 PM EST
    I have to say that I hope Somerby never stops fighting the battle of the 2000 election. Our media institutions failed us spectacularly.

    I hate to be "backward-looking" (none / 0) (#34)
    by Joelarama on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 09:05:06 PM EST
    but it always seemed to me that the left blogosphere's main conceit was to right the wrongs of the 2000 election.  And that was a very good thing, because that election said it all about where American politics, the Democratic Party, and the media had gone wrong.

    I hope Hope is enough.


    Indeed (none / 0) (#38)
    by andgarden on Wed Oct 22, 2008 at 12:09:17 AM EST
    The 2000 election was the defining event of my political existence. I was 15 and the time.

    Josh, earlier today (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by Steve M on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 12:40:19 PM EST
    Shorter McCain Campaign: Obama's a black, socialist, Muslim terrorist homo.

    Not in relation to anything in particular, no link or evidence, just a random belch which his readership apparently finds appealing for some reason.  I don't get it.

    Agree. I'm super-sensitive to the (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by Joelarama on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 09:09:29 PM EST
    "homo" smear, but I haven't seen McCain or Palin play it as much as in the past.  Unless you consider "big city' and "elitist" the same as "homo."

    Some examples, please, Josh.  We all despise what McCain is doing, but we're the ones who back up what we say.


    hey steve. good to see ya. (none / 0) (#36)
    by canadian gal on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 09:19:15 PM EST
    full agreement.  and i think bob's comments about cohen are also classic.  are people so willfully blind that principles get thrown out the window?

    CG (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by Steve M on Wed Oct 22, 2008 at 08:07:15 AM EST
    Miss ya!

    I used to think BTD was pretty (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by oculus on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 12:51:02 PM EST
    critical of Marshall.  But, I was wrong.

    Somerby: 3 brazillian--Village: (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by wurman on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 01:07:11 PM EST
    With the endless supply of idiots in The Media Village, it's worth wondering how The Howler picks his targets.  Apparently a 4-fer of Cohen caromed off Colin Powell & Marshall massé over Sullivan was just too rich & too sweet to leave alone for the day.

    As a long-ago Asian guru termed it, "The center cannot hold."  The left looks quite shaky & the right is crumbling at warp speed.

    Bailout anyone?  Bailout?

    Powell must be feeling guilty (5.00 / 5) (#11)
    by Saul on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 01:10:29 PM EST

    If ever there was one guy that could have made the difference of going to war in Iraq or not it was Powell.  Powell was troubled with the pressure that was being put on him to rationalize the war. He did not want to give the speech at the UN but the pressure was just too much.  He knew the facts were not there yet rather than following his facts and reports that told him not to go to war he chose loyalty of being a Republican faithful first rather than following his true gut and factual conscience.  He was more concerned about his image at that time than what was best for the country.   (See the PBS Frontline Documentary The Dark Side)

    Powell could have stopped the war or at the very lest injected some credible doubt that many of those that voted for the Iraq resolution would have voted no.  Why because a credible Republican like Powell was clashing with his own administration and if the Senators had seen that clash then the majority of Senators might have voted no to the Iraq resolution.

    I lost all respect for Powell because of his gutless decision.  Powell has to live with that decision for the rest of his life and with his conscience.  Look at all the lives he could have probably saved. At the very least his conscience would have been cleared.   His decision now after all these years to support Obama is probably his way of saying I am sorry for what I decided.    If ever there was a case of poor judgment. The Powell decision was a classic case.

    There's talk that Obama would put Powell on his staff. I do not agree with that at all.    Obama's cornerstone in his primary campaign was all about judgment. During the primary Obama hammered Hilary all day on her decision to go to Iraq.  However, Obama contradicted all that when he chose Biden, who also voted for the Iraq resolution.  One major cornerstone contradiction is enough in my book.

    Why start there? (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by Spamlet on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 03:37:34 PM EST
    "I lost all respect for Powell because of his gutless decision."

    What about this?


    That's the key to Colin Powell (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by cal1942 on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 03:47:22 PM EST
    Colin Powell rose to stardom because he knew how to protect his superiors.

    He was chosen by the Bush administration to lend the impression of moderation when in fact Powell was without power.  The Bush crowd always knew that Powell would click his heels and say 'yes sir.' A good little soldier.


    A good little soldier (5.00 / 3) (#29)
    by Spamlet on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 04:22:17 PM EST
    except, of course, for his insubordination when he openly opposed his commander in chief, President Bill Clinton, over the question of gays in the military:

    At one point, he even threatened to resign if Clinton pressed the issue further than the compromise "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy--a policy that soon resulted in the discharge of even more gay soldiers than under the previous protocol. . . . That Powell, the highest achieving beneficiary of Harry Truman's decision to unilaterally desegregate the military, would be the individual most responsible for preventing the similar integration of gays is to his everlasting shame.


    Good point (none / 0) (#37)
    by cal1942 on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 11:37:26 PM EST

    Powell was obedient as long as Republicans were in charge.

    He felt his future was secure when kissing up to Republicans.


    I Don't Know (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by CDN Ctzn on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 08:04:31 PM EST
    if Senator Obama just has poor judgement or if he knows exactly what he's doing and will do whatever it takes to win; even to the point of compromising or completely abandoning any principles he might otherwise have. Either way, it does not speak well of him.

    Funny (or sad) story (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by indy in sc on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 01:36:45 PM EST
    on denials in the insta-audio age.  Inexplicable thing here is that this was a rally with press known to be present--not some closed event where they might hold out hope that no one had taped proof.

    The ongoing (5.00 / 0) (#14)
    by lilburro on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 01:43:38 PM EST
    World Series saga:  

    Tommy Vietor, an Obama spokesman, called Mr. McCain's criticism ridiculous. "I guess these are the kinds of attacks you make when your campaign has conceded that if you talk about the economy, you'll lose," Mr. Vietor said in a statement. "Senator Obama said he's rooting for the Phillies. Yesterday he said nice things about the members of the team who came out to support him, but that doesn't change the fact that Tampa Bay bounced his White Sox out of the playoffs."

    The McCain campaign has just been so so stupid.  Somewhere in the campaign is a missing brain.  They seem to treat words shamanistically - America here!  Socialism here!  Taxes!  Joe the Plumber!  Anger!  

    Of course, Vietor's statement is kind of funny as well.

    Oh, and I forgot maverick (none / 0) (#15)
    by lilburro on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 01:45:46 PM EST
    When Mr. Smith asked Senator McCain about comments his running mate, Gov. Sarah Palin made that were critical of the robocalls, Mr. McCain replied: "Sarah is a maverick."



    How many angels on the head (none / 0) (#16)
    by oculus on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 01:46:33 PM EST
    of a pin?  Could Hillary Clinton realistically be a fan of both the Cubbies and the Yankees?  

    It's easy (5.00 / 2) (#20)
    by CoralGables on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 02:09:27 PM EST
    to be a fan of the Cubbies and the Yankees. They are in different leagues. I find it equally easy to root against both of them. (although if they ever played each other in the series I would be a die hard Cub's fan)

    Bi-ballclubbian. (none / 0) (#17)
    by lilburro on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 01:53:57 PM EST
    What you can't be is a fan of both the Cowboys and the Eagles.

    (baseball's not my thing)


    As a life-long Cubs fan I say (none / 0) (#18)
    by ruffian on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 02:02:54 PM EST
    absolutely yes.  But never the Cubbies and the Mets, or the Cubbies and the White Sox.

    How about a Pads fan (none / 0) (#19)
    by oculus on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 02:05:55 PM EST
    hoping Tampa Bay wins?  

    Why not... (none / 0) (#21)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 02:22:31 PM EST
    ...I support all the losers--the Rockies, the Cubs and the Mariners.  Bless their hearts.

    Forgot about about the O's... (none / 0) (#22)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 02:24:17 PM EST
    ...although they've actually won a World Series a couple of times in my life, so they don't exactly fit the true definition of lovable losers.

    Long lines continue... (5.00 / 2) (#23)
    by CoralGables on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 02:47:09 PM EST
    in Florida. The first day of early voting in Broward County (Ft Lauderdale) matched the numbers from the first 2 days of 2004. Dade County (Miami) did even better.

    Today the lines continue to be long in Obama voter rich Dade Broward and Palm Beach.

    I'm off to see Obama in Downtown Miami...no camera so no crowd photos forthcoming. The city of Miami is expecting between 20,000 and 40,000 with the Miami Heat playing at the same time right next door. Gridlock will be the word for the day.

    Early voting in Florida (5.00 / 2) (#24)
    by ruffian on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 02:49:03 PM EST
    Very long lines this morning at my local early voting location in Orlando. They were estimating 2 hours, so my co-worker got the number to call for an absentee ballot and came back to work.  I drove by there at lunch and there was even a line of cars to get into the parking lot.  The neighborhood is near the Univ of Central Florida, but it is also near a lot of defense industry company locations so I can't draw any conclusions about demographics since I did not see who was actually in line.  My bet is that the students have a more flexible schedule for standing in lines.

    So can we talk about gender roles in schools now? (none / 0) (#3)
    by CST on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 12:41:47 PM EST
    I have two comments to this - one on each side of the equation.

    My highschool was not friendly to male students who opened their mouths and were independent thinkers.  When I started there it was almost a 50/50 gender breakdown, but by the time I graduated - not even close.  Not only that, but I think you see this across the board, and is one of the reasons boys aren't going to college as much.  Unfortunately, we don't have a system in place that channels them to other careers.

    On the flip side, I once spent over an hour arguing with the head of the math department to let me into Calculus AP.  The argument did not center aorund my grades or whether I could handle the work - that was blatantly clear - but this professer (who never had me as a student and barely knew me) was convinced I didn't really "want" to take Calculus.  Now, I don't know if it was gender related or not, but frankly, I see no other reason that he would be so convinced Calculus was not for me.

    So I think it is a two-sided problems.  In general, male behavior is not welcome in schools.  However, female students are also discouraged from studying traditionally "male" subjects that often lead to higher paying jobs.  So we have a lot more female college grads, and a lot more male engineers/business people/lawyers, etc...

    Our schools.... (5.00 / 2) (#4)
    by kdog on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 12:49:34 PM EST
    at least our public schools, are not friendly to any gender of student with an independent outspoken mind.

    It's not what they are designed to do anymore...produce independent free-thinking outspoken young men and women.  They are designed to produce a kid who can pass a state test and follow directions....most unfortunate, imo.

    I swear I remember seeing heartache in some of my teachers eyes when we hit on a topic of actual interest to us kids, they had us engaged and our free American brains churning...and they had to squash it to get back to the state approved curriculum.  


    No argument from me there (none / 0) (#7)
    by CST on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 12:55:46 PM EST
    I was a guinea pig for state testing.  When I was in the 8th grade I had to spend 4 hours a day taking a test, for 2 weeks straight.  They hadn't decided what they were going to test on yet, so we had to take a test on everything under the sun.  Nevermind that they could've been using that time to actually teach us something.

    I learned how to be a free thinker (thanks mom and dad) - but I had to fight my school every step of the way.  I wanted to study abroad - they told me I would get kept back.  I did it anyway and managed to argue my way into the 12th grade.  I wanted to take Calculus - I had to fight.  It's pretty sad.


    Yeah.... (none / 0) (#10)
    by kdog on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 01:08:03 PM EST
    Sad indeed...especially considering the valedictorian in my high school was a female math wiz, and nearly all my math teachers were female.  That stereotype is long past due for retirement.

    I decided if I ever have kids I'll send them to public school so they can learn how to interact with others and how to cope with mindless bueracracy...but the real education will happen at home.


    Re medical schools, (none / 0) (#8)
    by oculus on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 01:02:09 PM EST
    male applicants outnumbered female applicants, representing a change from recent past.  Of course, medical schools used to be predominantly male--until HMOs began dominating health care industry and males started opting for law or MBAs.  

    [AAMChttp://www.aamc.org/newsroom/pressrel/2005/051025.htm ]

    Re law school admissions:  almost equal as to male and female, per ABA:  ABA


    admissions versus graduations? (none / 0) (#25)
    by Fabian on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 03:00:21 PM EST
    breakdown by gender?

    Admissions don't tell the whole story.


    Go for it. (none / 0) (#30)
    by oculus on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 04:51:59 PM EST
    Oops, did not see this (none / 0) (#5)
    by Stellaaa on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 12:50:46 PM EST
    this was my favorite read in months.  Josh and Sullivan sitting on a tree....etc, etc.  

    Saw "W" over the weekend.... (none / 0) (#12)
    by kdog on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 01:29:49 PM EST
    in a word...lame.  Oliver Stone hasn't made a really good movie in a long time.  Maybe his earlier work set too high a standard, but he's been sh*tting the bed lately, imo.

    Maybe it would be more interesting for non-political junkies who don't know much about G-Dub, but I thought it was a first class bore.

    Neither nor (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by Fabian on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 03:06:16 PM EST
    was the gist of the reviews I've heard/read.  It's neither a hard hitting expose, nor is it a myth making schmooze fest.

    If I was going to make a "W" movie, I would stop when he won the 2000 election.  Concentrate on what went before all that.  It has two advantages: first - most people don't know much about those years, second - most people have already formed an opinion about his presidential tenure so they don't really feel the need to cover that ground again.


    Random act of disinformation? (none / 0) (#32)
    by Lora on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 05:55:15 PM EST
    From Texas (CBS 42)(emphasis mine):

    Voters were misinformed Monday at an early voting location at Randalls on West Ben White Blvd. As voters waited, the Travis County Elections Division said a "poll cat" gave voters inaccurate instructions.

    "He said... 'Let me tell you, make sure you vote straight ticket, then you also vote for Obama to make sure the vote counts,'" said Erica Prosser, who witnessed the incident at Randalls.

    In reality, pressing the button for a candidate whose name is already highlighted deselects that candidate. But there's a simple fix.

    The simple fix is that you just re-select.  But how many people will catch that?

    As to the "poll cat:"

    As for the man who gave misleading information at Randalls, the Travis County Clerk said an election worker confronted him, and the man fled.

    Just a lone bull-shooter, eh?  No conspiracy there, heh heh....

    As for the electronic machines:

    An attorney for the Texas Democratic Party claims the machines use a confusing interface and are prone to undercounting "straight-party" votes, when a voter chooses all candidates in one party in one action. (AP)

    Ah yes, I've mentioned this before.

    But there IS something a bewildered voter can do:

    Different counties may use different electronic voting software, but one elections administrator who spoke to CBS 42 said all the programs should allow you to review your selections. He advised looking over your ballot carefully and said to ask for help before hitting the vote button.

    Secret ballot?  Secret ballot?!  We don't need no stinking secret ballot!  (Right....?) /sarcasm off

    I'm proud to report that I read it first at the Brad Blog.