Biden's Gaffe

Good thing people are not paying much attention to Joe Biden. What a stupid thing he said yesterday:

Mark my words," the Democratic vice presidential nominee warned at the second of his two Seattle fundraisers Sunday. "It will not be six months before the world tests Barack Obama like they did John Kennedy. The world is looking. We're about to elect a brilliant 47-year-old senator president of the United States of America. Remember I said it standing here if you don't remember anything else I said. Watch, we're gonna have an international crisis, a generated crisis, to test the mettle of this guy."

WTF? Did Biden take his extra stupid pills yesterday? Sheesh.

By Big Tent Democrat, speaking for me only

< Still Smearing Hillary | WaPo Poll: Obama By 9 >
  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft

  • Display: Sort:
    Kerry's gaffe today was worse (5.00 / 2) (#1)
    by CST on Mon Oct 20, 2008 at 04:50:37 PM EST
    He said McCain wears Depends....


    Oy (5.00 / 6) (#2)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Oct 20, 2008 at 04:51:56 PM EST
    Lord save us Dems from the Kerrys and Bidens of the world.

    Who cares... (5.00 / 5) (#18)
    by Exeter on Mon Oct 20, 2008 at 05:16:25 PM EST
    It's not like old people vote or anything.

    googled it, and it may not have been so bad (none / 0) (#6)
    by jerry on Mon Oct 20, 2008 at 04:58:45 PM EST
    Andrew Romano doesn't give the complete context, or know how to tell a joke, but Kerry's response was part of a series of responses on how Presidential Candidates answered the question of "Boxers or briefs"

    Kerry -- commando
    McCain -- depends

    It's an old joke, but could've been told well.  (Commando is a pretty good response too, too bad Kerry never said that in 2004, if he had, he may have become President.)


    I know the context (5.00 / 2) (#7)
    by CST on Mon Oct 20, 2008 at 05:01:03 PM EST
    And it's still bad.  There was no need to go there.  It may be super p.c., but a few weeks from an election you need to be super p.c. and Kerry should definitely know better.  It's not like he hasn't done stupid cr@p like this before that got him in hot water.

    Uh no, he would not have (5.00 / 6) (#11)
    by ruffian on Mon Oct 20, 2008 at 05:08:26 PM EST
    (Commando is a pretty good response too, too bad Kerry never said that in 2004, if he had, he may have become President.)

    Trust me, no one wants that image seared in their brain.  Aaaargh, too late.


    AHHHH (5.00 / 2) (#12)
    by CST on Mon Oct 20, 2008 at 05:09:30 PM EST
    I hadn't gone there, now I have, ahhhhhhhh

    If Kerry put Depends where he needs them (none / 0) (#26)
    by Cream City on Mon Oct 20, 2008 at 05:38:26 PM EST
    for diarrhea of the mouth, it would obliterate even his long face from chin to bushy eyebrows.  

    As I vaguely recall, his lousy lack of timing in telling a "joke" got him in a lot of trouble before -- something about the Iraq War that let the rightie blogs fill up with photos of military units mocking Kerry, etc.?  And then there was his gaffe about the Green Bay Packers that probably helped to cut his lead in Wisconsin to make it the closest state last time.  


    To be honest (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by CST on Mon Oct 20, 2008 at 04:55:20 PM EST
    While I agree this is politically stupid, I'm not sure it's wrong.  Frankly, I am afraid it will happen regardless of who gets elected.

    Not only will something bad happen, (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by Teresa on Mon Oct 20, 2008 at 05:06:27 PM EST
    we aren't going to like the response or think that it is the right one. It was only a matter of time with Joe. I like him ok but I wouldn't want him speaking for me too often.

    Yeah, think of him representing you (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by ruffian on Mon Oct 20, 2008 at 05:10:35 PM EST
    in your performance review at work. "Well, you know, she will be tested next year and it might not look like she is doing well, but trust me, she is."  Kiss that raise good-bye.

    Biden has always done this sort of stuff. (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by Joelarama on Mon Oct 20, 2008 at 05:15:55 PM EST
    He's a good man, but I've always thought he was a bad choice in political terms for the VP.

    The only good choice (5.00 / 2) (#41)
    by Coral on Mon Oct 20, 2008 at 06:30:10 PM EST
    was Hillary, IMHO.

    Yup. This is exactly the Biden (none / 0) (#53)
    by sj on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 09:52:37 AM EST
    ...that I've been expecting.  I'm actually surprised this side of him hasn't shown up more often.

    Colbert (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by lentinel on Mon Oct 20, 2008 at 05:31:47 PM EST
    showed a clip of Biden saying that what was important to people was a "three letter word:   J - O- B - S".


    Laugh of the day. He needs someone to (none / 0) (#25)
    by Teresa on Mon Oct 20, 2008 at 05:35:33 PM EST
    speak for him. lol

    He needs someone to count for him. :-) (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by Cream City on Mon Oct 20, 2008 at 05:38:55 PM EST
    I'll spin that another way: (none / 0) (#28)
    by steviez314 on Mon Oct 20, 2008 at 05:43:05 PM EST
    By saying J-O-B-S is a three letter word, everyone gets to see that clip showing Biden talking about JOBS, not a clip of McCain talking about capital gains taxes or whatever the hell else he talks about.

    The gaffes that fall into self-deprecation are MUCH better than the insulting ones.


    Spin (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by lentinel on Mon Oct 20, 2008 at 05:44:25 PM EST
    The joke was not self-deprecation.

    He just was running off at the mouth.


    You think a 'three letter word J-O-B-S' is running (none / 0) (#31)
    by steviez314 on Mon Oct 20, 2008 at 05:47:36 PM EST
    off at the mouth?  Not just a simple oops?

    In tough economic times, it's not wise (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by Cream City on Mon Oct 20, 2008 at 05:51:31 PM EST
    to vote for a guy who can't count to three.  And I saw this on a local blog which allowed the writer to raise again that Obama can't count how many states there are.  Another "simple oops," but each one allows the antis to bring up the previous ones.

    Ted Baxter (5.00 / 2) (#38)
    by lentinel on Mon Oct 20, 2008 at 06:24:08 PM EST
    It just reminds me of the Ted Baxter character. When someone commented on one of the stories he had just read before the camera, he said that he hadn't been listening.

    In Biden's case, I just think that all that campaigning and repeating the same stuff over and over made him punchy. Even after he said it, he didn't know that he said it. And he said it again.


    Spot on :-) (5.00 / 3) (#45)
    by Cream City on Mon Oct 20, 2008 at 06:43:01 PM EST
    Perfect.  Now when I see Biden, I'll see Ted Baxter.

    "It all started in a 10-watt station in Fresno. . . ."


    Thing is - Biden's right. (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by scribe on Mon Oct 20, 2008 at 06:20:46 PM EST
    In two ways:  historical and practical.  (Sorry this is long, but it has to be.)

    Go back to 1961.  Post-Bay of Pigs, Kruschev met Kennedy in Vienna, and decided that Kennedy was weak and childish (when, it appears, he really was sedated b/c of back pain).  So, Nikita goes back to Moscow and starts stirring the pot and, come the summer of 61, the Russians instigated the Berlin crisis, putting in a partial blockade and which culminated on 8/13 with building the Wall.  Then Kennedy and the West stand up to the Russians, calling up a lot of the US reserves and shipping US units to Germany.  In Germany, the US units convoyed across East Germany - as was their right under the Four Power agreements that governed both Berlin and, to a lesser degree, inter-German relations - to break down the blockade.  The Wall remained, IIRC because it was seen as a domestic intra-German thing - note that it was East German border guards who built, maintained and manned it from day one - not NATO v. the Russians.  

    So, Nikita tested Kennedy and found he had some steel.

    Then, come 1962, Kruschev - as much b/c of his own internal politics as anything else - went ahead and tested Kennedy again in Cuba with the missiles.  Note that the US was not lily-white pure-as-the-driven-snow in this area, having stationed its own IRBMs in Turkey and elsewhere where they could easily reach the Sovs.  From their point of view, putting missiles in Cuba was a matter of sauce for the goose.  On both sides, the respective military hierarchies were the driving engines behind pushing expansion of their respective arsenals and deployments.  Note also that in the post-Berlin Crisis of 1961 (like within a month) a three year moratorium on nuclear testing ended (8/30) and the Sovs restarted their testing on 9/1.  The US also restarted its atmospheric testing, conducting a series of tests of all sorts of live weapons dropped from B-52s, shot on various flavors of missiles and, in one instance, a live Polaris missle launched from a sub  (legend has it that the Polaris launch was to see whether they'd actually work - no one was sure, and there'd been signs they wouldn't).  In the spring and summer of 62, these were being popped off several per week - at least once, twice the same day.  This muscle-flexing got really quiet around the time of the Cuban Missile Crisis and then resumed afterward.

    After all this, the internal Kremlin politics led to Kruschev being ousted by Brezhnev in 1964.  This had at least part of its source in his having to withdraw the Sov missles from Cuba.

    One needs to remember that Bay of Pigs was one of the numerous cockamamie schemes - the most conventional some might argue, seeing as how it involved organized paramilitary units - that Bush the Elder's Yale buddies running CIA had come up with to "deal with Castro".  

    Not that, as it turned out, the level of "dealing with" Castro was necessary.  Frankly, dealing with Castro then is the analog of "dealing with terrorists" today - he's more useful to the Republicans being around than being gone.  I think history will tell us both are needless obsessions.

    Bay of Pigs also - to my eye - bears the same pattern which Bush the Elder and, to a degree the younger, display:  Upon leaving office, make sure you take a nice runny dump on the rug for your successor to have to clean up.  

    Bush the Elder went into Somalia only after losing the election and knowing full well it couldn't be resolved before he had to leave office.  And, FWIW, Somalia was a minor pimple on history's behind.  But it managed to tie up Clinton and, in conjunction with the gays in the military mess, wind up cutting the best of his national security team (e.g., Les Aspin) out of the loop.  Throw in - in the Spring of 93 alone - Zoe Baird having nanny trouble keeping her from getting confirmed, a bimbo eruption, and Waco and this kept Clinton from setting the agenda for his first term.  By that time, Gingrich had put together his ideas for the Contract on America and was raising all sorts of hell in the House such that 1994 (and all that followed) were well on their way.

    Kennedy was similarly hobbled by what the Republicans left behind for him in the Bay of Pigs and elsewhere, though one can debate till the cows come home just how different Kennedy's Cold War would have been (though there are and were signs the detente ofthe 70s could have been achieved in the 60s).

    So, I for one fully expect Bush, Cheney and their buddies in the national security establishment - both in and out of office - to come up with some crisis.  I also expect it to come between now and the election as a sort of last-ditch attempt to swing national-security voters to McSame.

    We saw one try in the weeks immediately post-Obama's Summer World Tour, in which the Georgia crisis came.  There is little doubt in my mind now and wasn't then (go read my diary) that Georgia was an attempt to start a new Cold War.  At that time, it seemed an attempt to sway voters to McCain and, collaterally, keep the defense dollars flowing into contractors' pockets.  

    If that doesn't work electorally, then I would expect that McCain's latest importunings to the Russians - we've seen reports in the last couple days about his staff seeking (through some apparent stupidity) campaign contributions, but remember, a lot of his staff (e.g., Scheunemann) lobbied for the Russians, too - and some Cheney-esque monkey business to lead to a new crisis, somewhere, intended to consume Obama's initiative and seize the agenda from him.

    Because the Democrats are coming with an agenda, and it's one the Republicans decidedly do not like.  

    No accident, no gaffe.
    So, IMHO, Biden did not make a gaffe today.  Rather, he was doing something lawyers call "pulling the sting" - get the bad stuff out in the open so you control how it comes out and your opponent cannot control the initiative.  And, this was as much a warning shot as was Obama's campaign's letter to Mukasey demanding the 2006 election/US Attorneys scandal special prosecutor look at the ACORN leaks.  He was telling the American people to expect worse from the Republicans, between now and the elections and after them.

    This is serious, inside the Beltway political hardball being played, and Obama is throwing high, hard and tight.

    Maybe (5.00 / 2) (#42)
    by lentinel on Mon Oct 20, 2008 at 06:30:24 PM EST
    But, what it feels like to me is a kind of dare.
    A challenge to a fight of "chicken" to the big boys from the new kid on the block.

    It is extremely dumb.
    And coming from a potential vice-president, dangerous.

    Let's not forget that Biden has been a hawk most of his adult life.
    He's talking about Obama, supposedly, but maybe he wants to strut his own stuff. His concept of being a man.


    Don't you know what a gaffe is? (none / 0) (#43)
    by rilkefan on Mon Oct 20, 2008 at 06:32:52 PM EST
    "A gaffe is when a politician tells the truth."

    You make funny! (none / 0) (#44)
    by scribe on Mon Oct 20, 2008 at 06:40:10 PM EST
    Scribe laugh!

    Seriously, BTD and most of the commenters are pitching the idea that Biden either said something stupid or went off the reservation.

    He didn't.  

    If that's a gaffe within your definition, then fine.  It wasn't a gaffe by my definition.


    But Mr. and Ms. Average Voter (5.00 / 0) (#46)
    by Cream City on Mon Oct 20, 2008 at 06:47:54 PM EST
    now have to think about whether voting for Obama means inviting another 9/11.  

    And that in addition to all the tough times they are dealing with now, voting for Obama is going to mean a lot of work for all of us for years to come.

    You really think that's good politics?  We vote for a president -- especially after the current one! -- who can do the harrrdd worrrrk of his job for us, when we've got enough of our own to do.

    That's not the same as good history (and good for you on that), good analysis of current events, etc.  Can you see that all that you say might be better for Biden to say after, say, November 4.  


    You fail to understand BTD's point (none / 0) (#47)
    by rilkefan on Mon Oct 20, 2008 at 06:48:36 PM EST
    I think - Biden is clearly saying that Obama is inexperienced, which will lead to us being attacked.  Which is a stupid thing to say in public whether you like it or not.  Biden does follow up with "spine of steel" but the damage is already done.

    The above definition is Michael Kinsley's and is widespread.


    No (none / 0) (#50)
    by rdandrea on Mon Oct 20, 2008 at 09:01:54 PM EST
    Biden was saying that "This guy's got steel in his spine."

    I heard the whole speech.

    I didn't think it was a gaffe at all.


    Me Neither (none / 0) (#51)
    by MTSINAIMAMA on Mon Oct 20, 2008 at 09:13:29 PM EST
    I didn't think it was gaffe either.

    I knew things were going too smoothly. (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by lucky leftie on Mon Oct 20, 2008 at 06:28:46 PM EST
    We wouldn't be democrats if we sailed effortlessly to victory, we need to make this a nail biter.  Who else can we offend and/or scare the crap out of?  

    News Flash to Biden (5.00 / 2) (#49)
    by ruffian on Mon Oct 20, 2008 at 07:52:37 PM EST
    We are already in crisis.  Two wars and an economic meltdown. If Obama's spine is made of steel he better show on the proverbial Day One.

    Biden has diarrhea of the mouth (none / 0) (#3)
    by laila on Mon Oct 20, 2008 at 04:53:19 PM EST
    I really can't believe he is saying that so what is Obama a Goerge Bush now?  man...

    ABC seems to have left out this part: (none / 0) (#5)
    by steviez314 on Mon Oct 20, 2008 at 04:58:28 PM EST
    "They're going to want to test him, just like they did young John Kennedy," he said Saturday night in San Francisco." They're going to want to test him. And they're going to find out this guy's got steel in his spine."

    Let people think Jack kennedy and the Cuban Missle Crisis..not a bad comparison.

    Not a bad comparison? A horrible one! (5.00 / 2) (#8)
    by jerry on Mon Oct 20, 2008 at 05:01:15 PM EST
    I lived through that once (as a toddler), but I know I don't want to live through that again.

    Who would want to vote for the President who's going to get tested?  I'd rather have President Impulsive McBomber who's so crazy that no one will dare test him.


    You gotta be kidding me (5.00 / 5) (#10)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Oct 20, 2008 at 05:06:33 PM EST
    Let's stress the fact our guy is inexperienced. GREAT idea. Sheesh.

    Uh, you might think about how Oliver Stone (none / 0) (#21)
    by Cream City on Mon Oct 20, 2008 at 05:22:50 PM EST
    and others see as among the disastrous results of our messing with Cuba and JFK's Cold War mentality.

    Biden sounds too much like a Cold Warrior here, too, frankly.

    And not getting coverage?  It's been on several cable networks all day, it's on dozens of newspapers' sites, etc., and the list is growing every time I look.  This was a bad Biden gaffe -- as even he admitted at the event, immediately saying that he forgot media were there and ought not have said what he did.  Not that it's something that he ought to have said to any audience, with or without media.


    Steel in his spine... (none / 0) (#24)
    by lentinel on Mon Oct 20, 2008 at 05:33:46 PM EST
    Just what we need.

    A nice nuclear confrontation to get the juices flowing.

    These guys should get a hobby - like sticking pins into flies.


    Not smart, not wrong (none / 0) (#14)
    by Tom Hilton on Mon Oct 20, 2008 at 05:11:10 PM EST
    But I'm not sure it works against Obama.  After all, he's now polling higher than McCain on metrics like "strong leader" and "able to deal with an unexpected crisis" (per last weeks WaPo poll).  I think we may be past a tipping point beyond which international crises (or the prospect thereof) don't help McCain at all, and might actually help Obama.  

    That's not the whole quote (5.00 / 3) (#17)
    by ruffian on Mon Oct 20, 2008 at 05:16:04 PM EST
    Biden went on to say that it might not be apparent initially that obama is right in his handling of the hypothetical crisis.  He was asking the progressive audience to stick up for Obama in that case.

    Just the wrong thing to say, on every level.


    Also... (none / 0) (#15)
    by Tom Hilton on Mon Oct 20, 2008 at 05:14:05 PM EST
    The combination of McCain's age and Palin's, um, Palin-ness isn't exactly reassuring in the event of a crisis.  People said at the time that Palin's pick took experience off the table; it took a while for that to be borne out, but I think that's exactly where we are now.  

    I'll bet they lock him in a closet for the next (none / 0) (#20)
    by Teresa on Mon Oct 20, 2008 at 05:22:10 PM EST
    four years. Poor Joe. The article I read said he spoke about 15 minutes on the subject before he remembered the press was there.

    There's a closet (5.00 / 2) (#22)
    by Cream City on Mon Oct 20, 2008 at 05:23:47 PM EST
    under the bus?  It's getting fancier with every guy's gaffe.

    lol (none / 0) (#30)
    by borisbor on Mon Oct 20, 2008 at 05:47:18 PM EST
    this is a gaffe?


    Read the whole article and then look for (none / 0) (#34)
    by Teresa on Mon Oct 20, 2008 at 05:57:25 PM EST
    others that have more details. You think Obama said bfd?

    A big gaffe (none / 0) (#35)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Oct 20, 2008 at 06:08:04 PM EST
    The good news is no one pays attention to Biden.

    I sear some of you are really not smart are you?


    Obviously a gaffe, but why dust a commenter? n/t (none / 0) (#48)
    by rilkefan on Mon Oct 20, 2008 at 06:58:46 PM EST
    No one pays attention? (none / 0) (#52)
    by Dave B on Mon Oct 20, 2008 at 10:16:12 PM EST
    There will be an ad made out of this statement, and it will leave any mitigating comments.

    The wingers on a dog training blog are all over it:

    It's pretty scary stuff.  Read the third and 4th page of the thread.


    o/t to BTD re ruling this Thursday (none / 0) (#33)
    by Cream City on Mon Oct 20, 2008 at 05:57:02 PM EST
    in Wisconsin AG's lawsuit re voter registration:  Here is a bit of a backgrounder in the Wisconsin Law Journal.  (Not a great backgrounder, as some comments to it make clear, but it may help to explicate the legalisms of the case and the players involved when the ruling comes down Thursday.)

    Big gaffe, but what did he really mean? (none / 0) (#36)
    by ID Liberal on Mon Oct 20, 2008 at 06:14:39 PM EST
    I think the world is poised to where there is going to be a crisis regardless of who is president. I hope what he is trying to say is that Barack Obama would be the better choice to deal with an impending crisis.  You can see the movement around the globe, as there are numerous incidents where former mights, and the up-and-coming ones are kind of flexing their muscles so to speak. The Soviet maneuvers in South America for example.  The rest of the world also views Barack Obama's demeanor in a much better light.  He is viewed as someone who is willing to debate issues and talk to other countries and open talks with hostile countries.  

    Biden needs to tone down the fear factor just a tad and place emphasis on who the better choice is when it comes to making decisions in a crisis.  I think McCain certianly has proven why he wouldn't be the choice. Biden should be focusing on those issues.

    On the other hand, . . . (none / 0) (#39)
    by Doc Rock on Mon Oct 20, 2008 at 06:25:57 PM EST
    . . . Biden hasn't been repeating a mantra saying the election's over for the last several days.  What's that meant to help?