Progressive Blogs Go Full Bore Obama

By Big Tent Democrat

With John Edwards out, there is nothing holding back the tide now. The Left blogs will go all out for Obama and will go after Hillary hard.

With the exception of a few isolated pockets, the Big Blogs, the wonk blogs, Big Media blogs, all of them, are all pro-Obama now. A poor Clinton supporter will be hard pressed to find a port in this storm, or even a place where Hillary gets half of a fair shake.

But don't sweat it too much Hillary supporters, this too shall pass one way or another. Either Hillary takes control on 2/5 or Obama gets the leg up. And it is likely that the nomination will be decided next week.

Either way, the Left blogs will stop hating the Clintons again next week after the 2/5 primaries.

< John Edwards Withdrawal Speech | Republican Debate Thread >
  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft

  • Display: Sort:
    No kidding? (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by RalphB on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 08:01:23 PM EST
    Today a 1-day poll with no listed MOE from some group called the anti-Indian Gaming alliance or something was pushed in front page posts on OpenLeft and MyDD, because it showed Obama up by 1 in CA.

    Talk about bogus.  Commentors tore the posts apart on both blogs.  It was kind of heartening in a way.

    alot of disinformation out there (none / 0) (#4)
    by athyrio on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 08:11:00 PM EST
    right now...I wish Obama supporters would be cordial and not lie about facts....but when you are in love I guess thats out of the question...I still think smart money is on Hillary particularly after Florida (if she can get that information out there with the media blackout) but maybe in this debate she can say something...does anyone have a line on the betting side of this thing how they are betting??

    ok intrade (none / 0) (#7)
    by athyrio on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 08:15:15 PM EST
    supporters think Hillary will win (buy) 68 and Obama will win (buy) 34....so Hillary is favored...which is amazing considering this deliberate media slant and blackout...

    ok now it is (none / 0) (#10)
    by athyrio on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 08:18:52 PM EST
    Hillary 61.5
    Obama 37.5

    yup, i go to intrade from time to time (none / 0) (#24)
    by hellothere on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 08:35:57 PM EST
    and check the stats also.

    Intrade can be hyper-sensitive though (none / 0) (#42)
    by RalphB on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 08:58:24 PM EST
    for example, it flip-flopped 30 points in one day right after the Iowa Caususes, then went right back in less than 24 hours  :-)

    I would only pay attention to Intrade for an obvious trend.  I think the UK and Aussie Bookies are much better odds makers.  They've never budged off a Hillary win.


    Thanks Ralph (none / 0) (#44)
    by athyrio on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 09:02:08 PM EST
    I am new at this stuff lol...Keep us informed if those people move off Hillary please...

    There are blogs (5.00 / 0) (#3)
    by Judith on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 08:03:43 PM EST
    That will be fair - Tom Watson and Lance Mannion for two...aside from this one.  Sane people can always find each other.  

    Others (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by ghost2 on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 10:12:53 PM EST
    Taylor Marsh
    The Left Coaster
    River Daughter (goldberry on dkos)
    Talkleft (right here!)
    No Quarters (Larry Johnson's blog)
    Steve Clemons
    Paul Krugman's blog

    pass the word around to those who want to preserve their sanity in the next week (or possibly next month).


    Thanks (5.00 / 2) (#103)
    by mexboy on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 01:18:02 AM EST
    I will check them out, I just can't stand it over at DailyKos, and forget about Huffingtonpost.
    I no longer visit them. The nastiness is bad for my aura!

    and wherever Craig Crawford posts? (none / 0) (#96)
    by Judith on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 10:52:01 PM EST
    Two More (none / 0) (#113)
    by BDB on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 01:37:01 PM EST
    Let me put a pitch in for two others, neither are what I would call pro-Clinton sites, but overall they seem balanced in that they criticize Clinton and Obama equally:

    Shakespear's Sister and Corrente.  Both links are available on this site.  Neither appears to be in the bag for Obama or Clinton, making them very enjoyable, IMO.

    One final thought - I've decided to embrace the current bias of the blogs (which I largely see as a giant echo chamber with little influence at this point) and the MSM.  If they can take Clinton down in a couple of weeks, then she isn't nearly as strong a candidate as I think she is.  OTOH, they are really lowering expectations for her on Super Tuesday by trying to find an Obama surge.  So if Clinton wins a lot of big states - even by a smaller margin than polls currently suggest - it will probably damage Obama more than it would've otherwised.  Because they will have created an expectation that Obama will win.

    It's set up to be like NH, only on a larger scale and with Clinton ahead in the polls going in.

    It will also test a new theory I have about Hillary Clinton, which is that if Obama is the media darling, then she is the media antitoxin, which is an antibody formed in response to and capable of neutralizing a specific toxin, e.g., the mainstream media.  My theory is that nobody listens to what the media say about the Clintons anymore.  That they've become immune to media attacks, which is why the media gets more and more virulent, it's an attempt to overcome the immunity (which drives the media nuts).  

    I suspect Tuesday will tell me whether or not my theory has any credence.  So far the evidence is positive, but we're too early in the trials to tell for sure.


    I thought the latest analysis says it can't (5.00 / 3) (#8)
    by Teresa on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 08:15:17 PM EST
    be over 2/5. Are you just referring to unbeatable momentum?

    I read your exchange with Geek today and you summed up so well how I feel. I'd like to see Obama win so that his worshipers will be brought down to earth as soon as he compromises on everything/anything. and I'd like to see Hillary win because the media has been beyond unfair.

    I fear you're right BTD, that the media will help Obama win and assist Hillary as much as possible to lose. I just think now that it seems that McCain will win, the experience card will hurt Obama.

    I considered everything you've said about needing a candidate the media loves, but when it comes down to it, they are not going to influence me how to vote unless it's the opposite of what they desire.

    So...I voted today. Too late to go back now. May the best woman/man win. I thought about waiting until after the debate tomorrow but early voting ends tomorrow and it would be hard for me to make it Tuesday.

    The media sure loves "the snub" (none / 0) (#18)
    by magster on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 08:26:57 PM EST
    which is a big whatever story that's negative to Obama.

    You think Wolf will ask about it (none / 0) (#19)
    by Teresa on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 08:29:34 PM EST
    tomorrow night?

    probably (none / 0) (#22)
    by Jgarza on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 08:33:45 PM EST
    they love non issue stories like that.  

    Diplomats engage protocols (none / 0) (#59)
    by ding7777 on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 09:21:29 PM EST
    so these non issues never happen.

    does that (none / 0) (#68)
    by Jgarza on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 09:31:56 PM EST
    include crying?

    When did Obama cry? (none / 0) (#88)
    by ding7777 on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 10:08:51 PM EST
    When on the day of the TK endorsement (none / 0) (#95)
    by Cream City on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 10:48:17 PM EST
    Rezko was in the headlines again for his arrest?

    Obama (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by hookfan on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 08:16:41 PM EST
    I don't get it. Whatever happened to "we have strong candidates. Any one would make a good president." Now the progessive blogs seem full of charges of racism, demonisation, and apparent full bore hysteria. Even if one prefers Obama, the politics of personal destruction (aka "mudslinging") seems to me to portend the progressives being marginalized if Hillary pulls off a win, or potentially worse thugishness towards the rest of the party if Obama wins.

    Personally I've had enough of "change" by the Bushistas with accompanying thugishness to last a life time.

    True Obama is not Bush. However his rhetoric and oft times displayed petulence leads me to wonder if we won't get the same approach as Bush only leftist. Who knows? Obama hasn't clarified what "change" means. Just my two cents.

    I agree (none / 0) (#12)
    by athyrio on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 08:21:47 PM EST
    I agree with you about Obama supporters, and I highly doubt if he is electable however if he is, it will be a disaster and I will be the first one to say I TOLD YOU SO....:-)

    change (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by hookfan on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 08:44:09 PM EST
       I really wish Obama would clarify what he means by "change". what policies are different from Hillary, and how would he achieve it?

    True his voting, such as it is, is liberal, but his rhetoric sounds like a Joe from Connecticut. I really don't like "faith based" voting. Look where it got us with Bush.


    Change and inspiration: scare me (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by Stellaaa on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 08:54:40 PM EST
    Fanatic masses of any kind scare me. True believers make me cringe. A movement that is fed on hatred but pretends it's hope and love is doomed. What is this intense desire for inspiration? Inspiration is in poetry, philosophers and ideas. Leaders are to be questioned and held responsible. How can you hold an idol responsible? How can you question an idol? I am sure that Mr. Axelrod will be crowned the Democratic Karl Rove if they win. And in the same way, they will work, in the shadows and in maneuvers to sustain the fantasy. Because, all they know at this point is the "story" they created and they will have to sustain the story at all costs. They will have to keep the frenzy and hysteria. God forbid that the aura is penetrated. They will use the tricks in the book to sustain the power. Because this is about power, it is not about change. It is about them, and not the country. Sort of reminds me of the Roman emperors. I hope i am wrong.

    oh come on (none / 0) (#47)
    by Judith on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 09:08:35 PM EST
    how can they scare you?  They are positive words - not scary ones. That is silly.  I want change and I want to be inspired.  I just look for different sources other than imagery alone.  

    Bush was change (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by hookfan on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 09:18:02 PM EST
    In fact he has changed this country more than Reagan ever imagined to do. That scares me. Undefined change coupled with personality cult seems to me dangerous.

    so it is not "change" (none / 0) (#90)
    by Judith on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 10:10:16 PM EST
    but misuse of power to destroy.  That is entirely different.

    I like change.  I like inspiration.


    They are words but can lead to a sort of fanatism (5.00 / 2) (#66)
    by RalphB on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 09:28:25 PM EST
    which is destructive in democratic societies.  Any Fanatic is scary, whether they are jihadists, fundamentalist christians, or whatever.  Absolute belief or faith is worse than narcotics.

    they are just words (none / 0) (#89)
    by Judith on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 10:08:59 PM EST
    and positive ones at that.  

    Words are defined by perceptions (none / 0) (#117)
    by PaintyKat on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 05:23:24 PM EST
    Some changes are negative and it would be more positive if you let others define words in accordance to their own life experiences and unless this is dkos everyone here should be allowed to speak from their own perspectives and not one which fits your needs or that you demand.

    You are most likely speaking to other adults and scolding others for disagreement or attempting to nullify their positives by just saying they aren't so is what we have with the current administration.  Why would any Democrat try to silence any other voices who are expressing their personal beliefs?



    did you suck a lemonball or what? (none / 0) (#25)
    by Judith on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 08:38:19 PM EST
    you are SOOOO negativo.

    who is negative? (none / 0) (#35)
    by athyrio on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 08:51:23 PM EST
    you (none / 0) (#43)
    by Judith on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 09:00:06 PM EST
    if I read your previous post correctly - I think that was going too far.  

    this: (none / 0) (#49)
    by Judith on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 09:10:53 PM EST
    "if he is, it will be a disaster" - you dont know that.  You cant know that anymore than you can know he would be successful...that is the problem.  

    No but if he needs (none / 0) (#54)
    by athyrio on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 09:15:21 PM EST
    media manipulation in order to win, count me out...I am disgusted and yes that is negative as hell...I am old fashioned and believe in the will of the people...but I guess ain't gonna happen...

    I agree with you (none / 0) (#87)
    by Judith on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 10:07:01 PM EST
    just lay off the disaster stuff...no need to go there.

    Are you a monitor here at Talk Left? (none / 0) (#118)
    by PaintyKat on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 05:42:18 PM EST
    I would think Athyrio is entitled to speak his/her mind here just as you are.

    Why would you try to put words in another's mouth or take them away for that matter?

    I would appreciate hearing the voices of all here as long as they are participating at the level required by the rules at TalkLeft and developed by BTD.

    If it is not a violation of the rules, let others speak from their own life's experiences.

    That is the way all that mess started at dkos and it grew into outright hatred with some telling others what they could discuss and what they could not.  Like Rezeko for instance.

    I saw a picture today in one of the trash mags at the grocery store of Obama in Islamic garb and I don't know exactly what part of our population reads those mags but I thought it a bit scary to combine that kind of nonsense with all the Kennedy hype and how disasterous that outcome could be.

    The title was Obama's Shocking Al Qaeda connection and it showed him with the leader who just lost the election in Kenya.  I picked it up because I wondered what they could be saying about him now and it made me think. I just think there is part of the population who has bought into the Bush rhetoric who are dangerous and capable of turning situations into disasters.  An assassination would   be an incredible disaster to this nation and folks can have fears whether another believes they are legitimate.

    But if everyone is afraid to mention any of these things for fear of attack by the thought police or being silenced by anyone saying that goes too far, we may end up with an empty suit being sold with code words "hope" and "change."

    Excuse me for being late on my response and I don't mean to direct my remarks personally but we have had so much of that already and after reviewing BTD's articles in my email I came believing this might be a respite from all the censoring that is taking place at other blogs.  



    Over on 2/5? (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by LarryInNYC on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 08:19:28 PM EST
    I dunno.  With proportional delegate awards, a spread of about ten points in most places, and momentum on Obama's side I think there's a real possibility that it will be effectively neck-and-neck (with either candidate having a chance to win) after 2/5.  Not a certainty, but a possibility.

    Big Mo (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by andgarden on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 08:24:43 PM EST
    will matter.

    I think the race wil be defined (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 08:52:46 PM EST
    and everyone will play nice after that.

    I hope so (none / 0) (#16)
    by Jgarza on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 08:25:01 PM EST
    I don't get to vote till march.

    I posted this on Kos today, first ever post there (5.00 / 3) (#13)
    by Stellaaa on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 08:22:57 PM EST
    This is the Democratic primary and many of the Bloggers have morphed into partisan Blogopundits. They have an audience and they have an obligation to research and to analyze information. They have a right to choose sides, but they also have an obligation to educate their audience on how to find information and how to analyze it. They also have an obligation to allow competing opinions without the infantile attacks. The spewing of the Anti Clinton old vitriol has been absolutely abhoront. A cesspool of hatred that is spawned by the MSM and conservative talking points. In the same way that propaganda machines create the hate talk, they can be used to create the adoration talk. When did you share the opinions and tactics of Russert, Mathews, Blitzer, et. al? Repeating at instances the same distortions? How did you morph into them? Hillary has been demonized and disfigured beyond recognition. How many watched the Reno Gazette videos completely of both candidates? How many have really looked at the Axelrod selling of Obama as a life story rather than a campaign of issues and positions? Did you provide links to independent articles that indicate opposing views? You have taken the "story of the day" typically some out of context statement and focused all the discussion on that in order to demonize the one you did not choose. Demonization is exactly the type of tactic we have opposed in the last few years with the Bush tribe. So, I put you all in the pile heap of the internet. Big Tent Democrat and Digby, are two that have kept their integrity I have learned from their style how to tone down my passions and have been informed by the discussions. I think this primary will give us a shake out, as to who is responsible with the power they have gained and who is not. I think the misogynistic attitude portrayed towards Hillary, which you deny, needs to be explored. Why is the male dominated medium so hateful and yet does not even see how it is hateful? Why is it still ok to demean Hillary by calling her Billary? Why is it ok to diminish her in order to validate your support of Obama. Do some real soul searching and do not diminish our valid accusations. Also, the diminishing of us old party people. Victory at any cost, which you criticize, is destructive.
    I am officially entering an anger management program today.

    i commend you for that post. (5.00 / 5) (#27)
    by hellothere on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 08:41:56 PM EST
    it is very much needed over there. i for one will not return. the venom was too much and i can be forgiving. but the fact is i no longer trust their judgment and don't want to waste my time.

    i remember in 04 how much i enjoyed the diaries and comments. of course, there was a lot of partisan rhetoric for their preferred candidates and flame wars. but not like now!


    Stellaaa, great post. I am a HRC supporter and (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by Angel on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 08:43:09 PM EST
    have decided that if Obama gets the nomination that I will not vote in the presidential election.  He is petulant and too much like Bush.  I didn't like his snotty remark in the debate "Well, Hillary, you're likeable enough."  Then the snub on Monday night showed what a child he is.  And his supporters on all the blogs have been way too nasty for my taste.  The Kennedy endorsement was the last straw for me.  Ted Kennedy is a drunk and a murderer (Chappaquidick anyone?), and most of Obama's supporters don't even know this about him.  They think Obama is JFK arisen from the dead.  I want a president who knows how government works, how to get things done, and who has the required experience. We've had 8 years of a guy everyone wanted to have a beer with and look what that has wrought.  Obama gives a nice speech but he can't debate the issues and will not be able to stand up to the Republican slime machine if he gets the nomination.  It really is a fairy tale if Obama's supporters think he is more electable than HRC (who has been vetted more than any figure in history).  This was a jumbled post but what the hey.

    I feel the same way (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by mexboy on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 01:29:44 AM EST
    I am really put off by the nastiness of Obama and his supporters. I am really angry about it now. I've even thought of voting for McCain. At least McCain doesn't promote misogyny or homophobia.

    I'm sure Hilary will win the nomination, but if Obama does I might vote for him. A few weeks ago I would have voted for him for sure, not so sure anymore.


    I feel the same way and I hate this mess!!!! (none / 0) (#106)
    by athyrio on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 01:44:36 AM EST
    I cannot vote for Obama (1.00 / 1) (#111)
    by LadyDiofCT on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 08:15:47 AM EST
    I have been a democrat for 35 years.  I work for the party each and every election, I contribute $$ and time to campaigns.  I have never been so disgusted with my party as I am now.  I have listened to our so-called leaders, other democrats, and the media excoriate President Clinton and continually devalue the personal and professional accomplishments of one of the most influential democratic first ladies in my lifetime.  This IL state legislator, elected to the Senate 2 years ago, may become the nominee  by critisizing other democrats and our progressive values, and the struggles we have fought for decades.  Teddy Kennedy and his endorsement is an huge disappointment.  I believe Mr. Obama is a fraud and for the first time in my political life, I will sit out this gneral election if the candidate is Mr. Obama.  I am not willing to elect another neophyte who claims to be a uniter from a party that will do whatever it takes to get elected.

    Should Sen Obama (none / 0) (#116)
    by PlayInPeoria on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 05:47:06 PM EST
    win the primary... then it becomes a vote for the Supreme Court nominations.... I have to vote for him ... if only for that reason.

    We could be seriouly set back if the Repubs get elected.


    Suck it up Angel..vote for the Democrat. (none / 0) (#34)
    by Teresa on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 08:50:09 PM EST
    Neither side can afford to be so angry at a primary loss that we end up losing the election.

    really (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by Judith on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 09:12:26 PM EST
    Come on people - routing the GOP is job numero uno.

    Experience (none / 0) (#114)
    by BloggerRadio on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 05:29:00 PM EST
    You're characterization of Bush as someone everyone wanted to go have a beer with is inaccurate. Bush was never elected at all. The majority did not fall for his fake good ol' boy routine. And, Bush ran on his EXPERIENCE as the Governor of Texas. Bush has made 'experience' a non-issue.

    Upon what do you base your glittering-generality about Clinton versus Obama on the ISSUES? I'll use a single example to challenge your supposition: Go to BOTH Hillary's and Obama's campaign web-sites and pick the topic of 'Social Security' simply as an example. Read both and then try telling me that Hillary is somehow more substantive on the 'issues". It sinply is not so. Rather you have been sipping the main-stream-media Kool-Aid instead of putitng the FACTS through your own thinking machinery. Try doing your own do diligence rather than simply regurgitating / echoing what you get from MSM.

    Obama IS substantive. And Obama was not a board member of Wal-Mart, or on the take from Rupert Murdoch, or related to the ex-President who gave us anti-American Lbor NAFTA and CAFTA. Regardless of what pundits may say, it IS possible to have FAIR TRADE in place of FREE TRADE, but Hillary does not understand that FACT.


    Did you get any troll ratings? (none / 0) (#17)
    by Teresa on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 08:26:16 PM EST
    You aren't supposed to post fair stuff over there right now.

    Nothing, (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by Stellaaa on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 08:44:05 PM EST
    don't know if anyone read it, but if felt good. I really have gotten angry these past couple of weeks and realized how it can get distorted.

    Fantastic Stellaa!!!!! N/T (none / 0) (#20)
    by athyrio on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 08:31:37 PM EST
    I still believe (none / 0) (#21)
    by athyrio on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 08:32:57 PM EST
    and have heard rumors to that effect, that Karl Rove planted young republicans amoungst the blogasphere years ago that are feeding this frenzy...I wouldnt be a bit surprised but if true I am really sad...

    Atrios has too (none / 0) (#26)
    by Maddie In Florida on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 08:39:48 PM EST
    I think.  

    Daily Kos posters called me and other posters who were 45+ that we ruined the country and it's their turn. And they hate Bill Clinton. I have read that board for many years. I'm done.

     I my delegate are even going to count for the 2,500,000 Democrats that voted Tuesday in Florida.


    The Funny Thing About Those Who (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by MO Blue on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 10:26:57 PM EST
    feel the need to malign the Boomers is that they keep changing the definition of Boomers so that Obama is not one.

    Obama is a Boomer whether they like it or not.


    chronologically, Obama may be a boomer (none / 0) (#109)
    by ding7777 on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 06:12:40 AM EST
    but culturally, he's not - at least not the U.S. version

    oops spelling (none / 0) (#33)
    by Maddie In Florida on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 08:49:51 PM EST
    And my delegates are not even going to be seated so my vote doesn't count anyway.

    Mine and the 2,500,000 Democrats in Florida.


    Even in th 21st Century (5.00 / 2) (#14)
    by Nowonmai on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 08:24:10 PM EST
    Politics is still 'the boys club'.

    After watching Obama's snottily turning his back on Hillary when Ted extended his hand to her (and other snubbing actions), showed the same variety of snit-fit our beloved (sarcastic) Decider In Chief has been noted for. Do we really need another petulant boy (mindset, not age) in charge?

    But the wagons are circling, and all the losing/withdrawing 'boys' are lining up behind the last 'boy' standing, regardless of his actions or policies.

    As I have stated before, there was a time I was willing to support Obama... but he by his actions have made me rethink that.

    go take a look at his snotty comments (5.00 / 2) (#29)
    by hellothere on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 08:43:41 PM EST
    today at a rally. that look of active dislike and anger at the state of the nation speech told me a lot. all hillary has to do is get obama angry and she can clean his clock.

    what (none / 0) (#70)
    by Kathy on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 09:33:02 PM EST
    snotty comments?  Link?

    associated press/story by (none / 0) (#91)
    by hellothere on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 10:12:07 PM EST
    nedra pickler & mike glover. it is available on yahoo. "in his speech obama depicted clinton as a calculating poll tested divisive figure who will only inspire greater partisan divisions as she sides with republicans on issues such as trade, the role of lobbyists in politics, and national security."

    well... (5.00 / 6) (#32)
    by Kathy on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 08:45:31 PM EST
    I just met Hillary Clinton (got my picture taken!) and listened to her speak right here in Georgia.  I'm not saying she's the second coming, but I got goosebumps just hearing her.  Absolutely amazing.  And taller than me, which I was surprised about.  She is beautiful and so freakin' smart it's scary.  She started her speech off praising John Edwards and touting party unity, and then attacked the republicans from there--all extraneous, no teleprompters, no notes.  Just brilliant.

    Consider me swimming in the Kool-Aid.

    I've met her once and attended two of her events (5.00 / 2) (#36)
    by Angel on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 08:52:24 PM EST
    over the past many years.  She is quite striking in person, tv does not do her justice.  And her intellect is far beyond anyone's in the race right now.  I do believe she is smarter than Bill (and I think he agrees).  She is really and truly a great candidate because she cares about our country and she really knows the issues and has great ideas about how to solve some of our problems.  And she is willing to listen to others and compromise.  And compromise is not always a bad thing, regardless of what some may think.  It breaks my heart to think about what the media has done to her, how they have distorted her record, her words and her whole persona.  If people would really and truly look at the facts I think she would win any election in a landslide.  She is the most capable and competent of candidates in a very long time.  

    Kathy, I met her years ago and (none / 0) (#41)
    by Cream City on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 08:57:38 PM EST
    didn't get a photo with her, darn (but I did get a thank-you letter from her later!).  And that was before I knew much about her, before all the hubbub now -- but I also was just in awe.  And I don't awe easy.:-)  What I had seen on tv was so different from what I saw in person -- a powerful, forceful, amazingly smart but also very witty person.  I do remember discussion among many there saying, now, why isn't she the one who is president?  But a dozen years ago, I still never thought I would live to see a woman taken seriously as a candidate.

    Btw, I had seen Bill before that, I had seen his almost-charisma (and I met JFK, I reall did -- and the Dalai Lama! -- so I have felt real charisma:-).  But Bill had less of a long-lasting impact than seeing Hillary Clinton at a podium and working a crowd with grace and great good humor.

    So just so's you know, the awe will settle a bit, but the long-lasting impact will stay with you.


    nice comment (none / 0) (#45)
    by Jgarza on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 09:03:12 PM EST

    One of my better pictures is with Hillary (none / 0) (#52)
    by andgarden on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 09:14:19 PM EST
    I occasionally brandish it to annoy the CDSers.

    she was (5.00 / 2) (#62)
    by Kathy on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 09:22:24 PM EST

    And the thing about her speech was she offered solutions.  Here is the problem, here is how we will fix it and here is how we will pay for it.  Best line of the night:

    We don't need a republican foreign policy and a democratic foreign policy.  We need an AMERICAN foreign policy.

    I cannot believe she delivered an hour long speech like that with no notes, no teleprompters, no nothin but her brilliant mind.  You are right that television does not do her justice...maybe because they keep cutting her off right when she gets warmed up.

    I will freely admit that part of the power was being a woman and watching a brilliant woman-obviously adored by the crowd-speak the truth about the mess we are in as a country.  And then she told me how she was going to fix it.

    I voted today for Super Tuesday.  I've got so many signs in my yard that we can't find the cat.  I am doing everything I can to kick the old guard in the family jewels and get the best candidate in the White House.

    (and, cool about the Dalai Lama, somebody's met a lot of famous people here!)


    The line about the cat is cracking me up! (none / 0) (#72)
    by Cream City on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 09:37:19 PM EST
    I hate our cat, an awful old barn cat that my daughter loved, and she promised to take him.  She's out on her own, the cat is still here.  Hmmmm, more incentive to get yet more yard signs!  Thanks.

    Btw, I hate being a name-dropper . . . it's just that I grew up in a very political family so got taken to meet every Dem candidate that came our way -- and then I worked in media and pr so got to meet amazing people like the Dalai Lama.  That was his first visit to this country, something we never thought we'd see then.  But he comes over more often now, and if you get the chance, do go -- and read his autobiog first to realize what great goodness is against horrible attacks on the people of Tibet.

    That is what is important -- what do such people teach us that we never thought about before, how do they inspire us to learn and do more?  Do they have lasting impact on us and others' lives?  Have they already done so, for a real record that gives us confidence that they can continue to do so -- to lead by educating us to understand more about others here and abroad?  Or just by scaring us?

    I give this to Obama: he does not practice the politics of fear.  But he still doesn't seem to want to educate me toward greater understanding.  And that's sort of odd, since he is a teacher!


    Cream (none / 0) (#73)
    by Kathy on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 09:39:20 PM EST
    Nice--thanks for the story, and the teacher remark.  You are right.  Good teachers inspire others to want to lead, not follow.

    Obama is starting to practice (none / 0) (#83)
    by ding7777 on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 10:01:46 PM EST
    the politics of fear.

    His campaign is igniting racial tensions (last month is was with blacks, today it is with the Hispanics)

    He is calling Hillary a Republican uniter.

    Obama is not what he claims he is.


    Thankful for this blog (5.00 / 2) (#38)
    by Mary Joan on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 08:52:51 PM EST
    I am thankful for this blog. I used to read and post at Obsidian Wings, but I am tired of being a lonely voice for HIllary. A feminist point of view isn't particularly welcome either.

    Just one example (5.00 / 3) (#40)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 08:57:10 PM EST
    Barack Obama has a new dishonest theme that Hillary is like John McCain on Iraq. It is simply a lie. On Iraq, Hillary's position is for immediate withdrawal. Indeed, Hillary's TRAJECTORY is the exact one Josh Marshall has taken. EXACTLY the same.

    Does Josh Marshall think he is like John McCain?

    Did Josh Marshall write a post condemning Obama's dishonest attack? No, they are still fretting ove the Hillary Florida gambit where Hillary was not dishonest.

    I do not condemn Obama, that is politics. Hillary has a vulnerability.

    But if these people were not shilling for Obama, they would hold him to the same standard.

    They are blind unfair partisans now.  

    I would totally hire you (5.00 / 2) (#55)
    by andgarden on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 09:15:29 PM EST
    as my lawyer. That is exactly what Josh is doing, and it's reprehensible.

    Frankly (5.00 / 2) (#57)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 09:19:13 PM EST
    if I had free rein on this blog, the title of this post would be "Obama Calls Josh Marshall and Matt Yglesias Similar to John McCain"

    MyDD beckons. . . (none / 0) (#60)
    by andgarden on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 09:21:39 PM EST
    Just a thought (none / 0) (#46)
    by athyrio on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 09:05:08 PM EST
    BTD, that if Obama wins, I will feel it isnt necessarity a legitimate win because of all the media manipulation and the misinformation out there...I wish I felt differently, but that has been taken away from me by the highly unfair media and others...I resent that...The American people deserve their wishes to be respected by all sides...this truly reminds me of another country with state owned media...

    That's politics (none / 0) (#48)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 09:09:58 PM EST
    that might be but (none / 0) (#51)
    by athyrio on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 09:12:51 PM EST
    I prefer the old Idealistic nature that truly believes that it is the will of the people....I was so happy when people started catching on to Fox News and then I found out that the others are any better only pushing Obama...Makes me sick

    Well (none / 0) (#58)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 09:19:38 PM EST
    I wish I had a pony.

    Wrong blog. (none / 0) (#61)
    by andgarden on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 09:22:22 PM EST
    Hey I have (none / 0) (#74)
    by athyrio on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 09:39:25 PM EST
    9 horses and 10,000 acres to ride them...Come on out.....:-)

    we always become (none / 0) (#65)
    by Kathy on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 09:24:55 PM EST
    what we hate.

    Power corrupts.

    I will never look at TPM ever again after how rude Josh was to my cousin.  She is devastated.


    Can you more info about this? (none / 0) (#69)
    by ding7777 on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 09:32:17 PM EST
    my cousin (none / 0) (#71)
    by Kathy on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 09:37:15 PM EST
    wrote to him pleading that he take up the fight to help disenfranchised Florida voters like herself, and said that it was people like him who fought the power, and to please do something.  She got back this screed about how she was obviously biased or some such crap, and he said that she had insulted him.  Then she wrote back something about all the Obama ads on his sight and said she was voting for Edwards because of his anti-Clinton Obama rhetoric, (now Clinton because Edwards dropped out) and Josh wrote back to her, but she deleted  the email without reading it (which annoyed me, because I wanted to read it, but she HATES confrontations, and it's her fight, so okay) and that's the story.

    I asked her to join TalkLeft, but she's finished with blogs for a while.


    Thanks (none / 0) (#81)
    by ding7777 on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 09:54:55 PM EST
    I was going to write Josh to let him know that every time he does an anti-Hillary post, I contribute $$ to her campaign.

    But since he started posting so many - and I'm not rich - I had to expanded the limits to monthly.


    Well look at it this way: at least the (none / 0) (#98)
    by byteb on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 11:56:31 PM EST
    media is enamoured of a Democrat this time. It's a rare thing when you think about it.

    He is a Democrat? (none / 0) (#99)
    by Stellaaa on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 12:27:12 AM EST
    wow...I thought he was an Idol.

    On Hillary's Fact Hub, there's a dismantling (none / 0) (#63)
    by RalphB on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 09:23:34 PM EST
    of one run-on sentence from Obama's speech in CO today.  Turns out it contains 4 misledaing attacks in that one sentence.  It's essentially the Hillary=McCain crap.

    On FactHub, they go through and debunk each lie. Since it's a candidate site, I checked the debunking and they are completely correct.  Obama is lying though his teeth.  May be politics but it's not good politics.

    Darned it TPM isn't becoming DKos.  Since Kos has a Newsweek gig now and was on Larry King, wonder if Josh Marshall is looking to move up following his sterling example?


    i wonder just how much cred they (kos&gang) (none / 0) (#84)
    by hellothere on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 10:02:36 PM EST
    will have after super tuesday.

    um (none / 0) (#64)
    by Jgarza on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 09:24:23 PM EST
    I do not condemn Obama,

    Barack Obama has a new dishonest theme

    post condemning Obama's dishonest attack?

    I guess it depends what your definition of condemn is?

    As for the attack nothing in it is inaccurate.  


    You can't read and I don't care what you think! (none / 0) (#76)
    by RalphB on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 09:48:12 PM EST
    Sorry, wrong reply to the wrong blog (none / 0) (#77)
    by RalphB on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 09:49:17 PM EST
    got too many open windows here.  Wow

    Everything in it is inaccurate (none / 0) (#100)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 12:40:18 AM EST
    That is what pols do.

    Obama's speech in Colorado today (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by my opinion on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 09:52:35 PM EST
    included the following statement:"Democrats will win in November and build a majority in Congress not by nominating a candidate who will unite the other party against us, but by choosing one who can unite this country around a movement for change," Obama said." Personally I find this rather disturbing. It sounds to me that he is blaming Democrats for being divisive not Republicans and that he wants to be bi-partisan which means more of the same or change the way the Republicans want because they don't compromise. I was an Edward's supporter but I can't vote for a man that makes statements like that.

    From Obama supporter on OpenLeft (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by RalphB on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 09:53:42 PM EST
    This confirms my worst feelings.  It's a cult of personality and they don't care about the policies.

    "His policies are irrelevant

    I'm describing the orientation of voters who would make up a coalition that beats Hillary Clinton.  Obama merely needs policy positions that are palatable to both groups.  It doesn't matter if they are to the left or to the right of HRC."

    Guess I'm old-fashioned but the policies matter to me.

    I Just Found Out Today On Open Left (5.00 / 1) (#104)
    by MO Blue on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 01:25:50 AM EST
    that I'm not part of the "Creative Class." Seems if you aren't a die hard Obama kool aid drinker, you must be a drone.

    I hope Obama supports take that theme out on the campaign trail with them between now and Feb 5th. It is bound to convert a lot of Edwards supporters to their cause in the real world.


    This was my favorite today (5.00 / 0) (#107)
    by Stellaaa on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 01:50:54 AM EST
    From HuffPost:Obama voters are well read and educated so they did not go to vote in a primary that does not count. The audacity of the elites

    I Guess The 31% Of The People (none / 0) (#108)
    by MO Blue on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 02:31:31 AM EST
    who voted for Obama in FL are illiterate. Maybe someone should tell them.

    he is clearly (none / 0) (#97)
    by Jgarza on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 11:34:35 PM EST
    talking about how Obama can win

    can we be allies again? (5.00 / 3) (#82)
    by Klio on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 10:00:03 PM EST
    I'm distraught at the toll this is taking.  I no longer feel like we in the netroots are allies, sharing common goals.  

    Fundraising pitches are up at various sites, and I can't bring myself to support them.  Downticket races are being promoted, and I am just sitting on my wallet. Activism is being urged ...  You see the  predicament I find myself in.  

    Obama has never been my first or second choice, but I worked at reconciling myself to the possibility that he would be the nominee so that I could support him.  

    But this past week especially has made me feel like, well like I'm living in a Lord of the Flies universe.

    I despair.

    i doubt (none / 0) (#85)
    by athyrio on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 10:04:41 PM EST
    we can be allies when the netroots have a take no prisoner attitude and refuse to ever support my candidate no matter what...that person cannot possibly be a democrat....I am .....my candidate is Hillary and I am a proud liberal....

    My life as a pest (5.00 / 2) (#86)
    by Ellie on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 10:06:47 PM EST
    Job one will reportedly fix tone before injustice. The is the same warmed over meatloaf I've been served from movement conservatives and corporate thugs for my entire voting life.

    I'm objective enough to consider that I really share half the responsibility for the ugliness. It's highly possible I really am being a bad (shrill) sport whose uncomfortable with my rude objection as St. Ronnie Reagan let AIDS become an epidemic because the Word was that God was punishing evil gays with it. If only "my" side had kept our heads and not stormed media events things might -- would definitely -- be so different today!

    You can't imagine how big an @hole I was when Poppy Bush abandoned the promise that Kuwaiti women would get the vote after Gulf Poppy took on Saddam the first time. Dems and Repugs were united in shoving that teensy issue to the back burner till they finished patting themselves and each other on the back. Who knew that merely asking nice would have resolved silly differences?

    I was an uconscionable boor when those hateful divisive Clintons drew the witch hunts on themselves for undeservedly holding elected office. It really is, after all, the job of government to spend millions assailing personal lives for partisan political gain, and "our" side will have that same power when we master the niceties of, "Hi and how'dya'do?"

    Don't get me started on how shrill I am when discussing needless war, shredding of the Constitution, and abandoned of rule of law.

    Why didn't someone tell me that all that was needed to stop this systematic rollback of human rights was to send someone with a nicer smile and who the pitbulls liked better?

    Plus, I could have stayed home all that time instead of protesting, organizing and generally making matters worse.

    Re: (5.00 / 4) (#101)
    by CognitiveDissonance on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 01:03:41 AM EST
    Either way, the Left blogs will stop hating the Clintons again next week after the 2/5 primaries.

    Perhaps, but will they have any readers left other than the shrill Obamabots who can only cut and paste and parrot talking points, but have no real understanding of what is at stake this election? And if Clinton is the winner, will they continue the demonization and poisoning of the well, making her task even tougher in November?

    Unfortunately, they are becoming what they profess to hate and are trying to replace - the MSM, which has become a propaganda arm of the GOP, and is no longer the professional press who once took down a corrupt president, but now don't even notice as an even corrupter one has torn our country apart.

    I won't be back reading their stories. They have proven to be just another propaganda purveyor. That is no less defensible on the Left than it is on the Right. In fact, I find it even less defensible, because I expect us in the reality based community to fight for the truth. None of us is perfect at controlling our bias. But that doesn't make it any less an ideal to strive for.

    I think the traffic to their (none / 0) (#102)
    by Stellaaa on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 01:06:13 AM EST
    sites is making them giddy. I completely agree. I am doing some cleaning up of my bookmarks. I found new minds. When the frenzy is over, will their new friends stick around ?

    Agree/disagree (none / 0) (#2)
    by oldpro on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 08:03:32 PM EST
    Yes....it'll be a Kool-Aid tsunami on the blogs...thank gawd they won't be decisive in this election.  While they're all congratulating themselves and each other...blah, blah, blah...  we'll be out doing some actual campaigning...what a concept, eh?

    If Edwards endorses, before or after Tuesday...that should give one or the other candidate an edge.  I think he'd be smart to do it before the voting but I don't know if he's ready to take that chance.  I think he wants a sure thing...candidatewise.

    Disagree re "the Left blog will stop hating the Clintons again after 2/5."  A few maybe but the transition will be slow and some will never get there.  Too caught up in slogans and propaganda and forget what politics and government are for.

    Wrong twice (none / 0) (#5)
    by koshembos on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 08:11:56 PM EST
    They where Obama before Edwards left (he had very little support from the Netroots) and they will continue to hate the Clintons. If Hillary wins, they'll support Bloomberg or McCain.

    if that is true (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by athyrio on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 08:35:04 PM EST
    it proves my theory that they arent really progressives...

    Good points all around (none / 0) (#6)
    by andgarden on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 08:15:07 PM EST

    Carl Bernstein just said on CNN that (none / 0) (#67)
    by Teresa on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 09:28:29 PM EST
    HC is the candidate who is really most like John Edwards. He said she argued vigorously with Bill that he was selling out to Republican interests (my paraphrase). He also said she fought hard against NAFTA and other positions he took but lost those battles in the White House.

    I was just amazed at his positive commentary. I don't know how much he really knows but he said the Clinton camp fears that if Edwards does endorse anyone, it will be Obama.

    wow that supports what (none / 0) (#75)
    by athyrio on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 09:42:38 PM EST
    I always thought about her....Good for her....No wonder the right are scared of her....Go Hillary!!

    he's written a biography of her (none / 0) (#93)
    by Klio on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 10:24:06 PM EST
    Not that I've loved his BuchCo books ... but he's got a new [and apparently well-received] biography of Hillary.

    A recent feature in the New Yorker was very well done, quite balanced, and really illuminating.  They quoted Bernstein a bit in it.


    Re: Progressive Blogs and Radio Persuading Voters (none / 0) (#78)
    by djork on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 09:50:39 PM EST
    I quit listening to Stephanie Miller, at least until the primary is over, as they have drunk too much of the Obama kool aide. I support their right to support whomever they want - but what I don't get are lefty liberal types who want to prosecute Bush, loathe and despise Joe Lieberman, accuse of Hillary of being Republican Lite etc.etc. but they LOVE Obama. Severe case of cognizant dissonance there.

    Blogger Bias (none / 0) (#110)
    by bob h on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 06:40:36 AM EST
    The 2000-2004 elections convinced me that over half of Americans are complete fools.  Now the 2008 election is doing something similar to my opinion of  liberals.

    I don't meant to pile on and ruin your day further (none / 0) (#112)
    by whaleshaman on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 01:22:41 PM EST
    Did you see John Stewart without irony interview WSJ's Peggy Noonan last night? [Groan, they got to him. Check his back yard for ponies.]

    I won't post the link to it here but it can be found at The Daily Show, if anyone needs to see it for themselves without my running interference.

    Change (none / 0) (#115)
    by BloggerRadio on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 05:33:18 PM EST
    "The most important political office is that of the private citizen."--Louis D. Brandeis

    Regarding "change":

    "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." --Margaret Mead