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    links must be in html format (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by Jeralyn on Sat Sep 22, 2007 at 06:18:27 PM EST
    or they skew the site and will be deleted.

    Too funny (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by tnthorpe on Sun Sep 23, 2007 at 11:45:02 AM EST
    "Gates of Vienna" opens with a caption of a picture of the seige that reads "At the siege of Vienna in 1683 Islam seemed poised to overrun Christian Europe. We are in a new phase of a very old war"?


    Such delicious paranoia-mongering here in the very heart of the most powerful country ever to exist. Lovely.

    And of course the Mexican hordes threatening us are just like the Muslim hordes threatening Europe, those slinky, nefarious brown people are all alike. Too too funny, except that it's just boringly typical fascist fantasy. Why don't you go make a video game of this apocalyptic fantasy scenario for you and your fascist buddies on "Gates of Vienna" or the "910 Group" to play?

    I'm LOL (1.00 / 1) (#22)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Sep 23, 2007 at 03:19:08 PM EST
    at all of you.

    You seem to think that this is viewed as some horde that arrives attacking and killing.

    That isn't the case at all. What they are, are people. In small numbers and over a period of time they can be assimilated. But, in large numbers over short periods of time, they can not. Moslems are a special problem because of the militant nature of some of Islam's teachings, just as the Catholic church's was in the 13th, 14th, 15th and 16th centuries.. Ask the Native Americans how well that worked out... ;-)

    But, since they can't they be assimilated, the culture of the country they are coming to becomes more and more like the country they came from. This doesn't bother most of them because they didn't come here over politics, but to find a better life and favorable economic conditions. That it was that what they fled doesn't register.

    Just as the link shows the Moslem problem quite well, the Udall Study you so thoughtfully provided, details the problem of our "southern" border.

    Non Citizens 163.3 (1990) 457.3(2000) 180 (% change 90-00) 619.8 (Total)

    From the same study, we know that the illegals in 2002 were about 350,000 and by 2005 the number was about 500,000, or about a 40% increase in three years, or about 13% per year. At that rate of change the rule of 72 shows that they will double in 4 years to a million in 09, 2,000,000 in 2013... and that's just AZ.


    No one is buying, ppj. (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by Edger on Sun Sep 23, 2007 at 03:45:12 PM EST
    No one has bought for years. Well, no one with any brains left, anyway.

    I keep telling you ppj, if you're going to to keep trying to sell fear ppj, you've gotta stop using your own product ppj, because right now you're on about the same level as a crackhead, ppj.

    People stop and stare, shake their heads in pity and turn away laughing, and still you wonder why they won't buy what you're addicted to.

    It's because, like the crackhead ppj, you're the only one who can't see what it does to you. No one expects you to get it, ppj. One of the symptoms of psychosis is the inability to realize you are in it.

    Or are you just pretending?

    They're coming for you ppj. They're gonna get you, ppj. But not for the reasons you think.  


    edger (1.00 / 1) (#28)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Sep 23, 2007 at 05:57:35 PM EST
    Your inability to understand abstract thought is well known.

    You meant (5.00 / 0) (#29)
    by Edger on Sun Sep 23, 2007 at 06:02:28 PM EST
    "subtracted" thought, ppj. Now your spelling is going too.

    Step away from the crack pipe, ppj.


    For someone who (1.00 / 0) (#31)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Sep 23, 2007 at 06:27:45 PM EST
    thinks I am wrong, you sure spend a lot of time trying to deny the truth... which is what your strategy is:

    Do we offer them respect? Absolutely not. We do our best to marginalize and get rid of them.

    I think this very clearly demonstrates your fear of free speech.


    ROFLMAO pt.2 (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by tnthorpe on Sun Sep 23, 2007 at 04:06:51 PM EST
    Yeah can't be assimilated. The Udall study you consistently misrepresent notes that immigrants made a net contribution of almost $1 billion to the Arizona State coffers, but hey, what's a fact when compared with your buddies' militarist hysteria? "We are in a new phase of a very old war" comes from your own source, the fabled "Gates of Vienna." It's your fascist buddies who have the military scenarios working, not those of us who want real immigration reform that recognizes the dignity of work, a right to unionize, right to collect all wages earned and receive protection from unscrupulous employers, and that ultimately provides for pathway to citizenship. Pay attention!

    Why is it that conservatives love to play victim? Your language is the same racially biased jargon that WASPs used on the Irish, Greeks, Poles, and Italians years ago, or against Japanese Americans in WWII, or against the Vietnamese after that war ended and the so-called boat people began to arrive. It was wrong then, it's wrong now.

    This from the Rand Corporation:

    The large-scale immigration of Mexicans and other Latin Americans into the United States has stimulated a debate on America's ability to assimilate them. A parallel debate in Europe, particularly France, concerns the ability of that continent and that nation to assimilate the similar ingress of Muslims from North Africa and elsewhere. This occasional paper uses the history of mass immigrations into the United States to examine the two current streams and the two debates. It concludes that today's Mexican inflow differs little from past mass immigrations into the United States by the Irish, the Jews, and the Italians and that assimilation should be as successful as in the past.

    But keep posting please because I'm


    It was your link (1.00 / 1) (#27)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Sep 23, 2007 at 05:56:16 PM EST
    All I have done is quote from it.

    As for your $943 million, not 1 Billion, that's an estimate based on a bunch of "studies." On the other hand, we know that in 2004 of the 619,000 non-citizens about 400,000, or about 65% were illegal aliens. That means that of the medicaid cost of $477 million of non-citizens, $310 million was from illegal aliens. In addition, $58 million went to law enforcement.

    BTW - The $943 million is also, as defined in the study, for non-citizens... using the same information as above, the number becomes $612 million.

    But let's not stop here, let's look at education. Which, according to the study was $544 million, or $353 million for illegals... No mention is made for how that was derived so we don't know it that includes infrastructure or just direct costs. Either way it is a chunk of change...

    And look here. The total costs of these three alone is $721 million.... no mention of their share of other costs...

    As for your other..... try some history since you have little experience in the real world...


    Outraged that Israel had won the war against all odds, with help from the U.S., the oil--producing members of the Arab League unilaterally quadrupled the price of oil and cut production by 5 percent a month. Additionally, they imposed an oil embargo on the nations considered friendly to Israel----the U.S., Denmark and Holland. France and Germany panicked. On November 6, 1973, the nine countries of the European Economic Community met in Brussels and issued a joint resolution that reversed the intent and meaning of United Nations Resolution 242, and declared illegal all territory Israel had gained in its defensive 1967 war. Furthermore, the EEC demanded that henceforward 'the legitimate rights of the Palestinian people' be included in any definition of peace.

    Having met the Arab League's preliminary demands, the EC recouped the free flow of oil embargoed to Holland and Denmark the month before. Furthermore, the EC was now free to pursue the EAD. The agreement to open discussions, however, came with further conditions. France and all other European Community nations had to agree to adopt pro--Arab and anti--American policies. Thus, the free flow of oil came with significant political riders. This little known dialogue, which subsequently burgeoned into an enormous EU--funded apparatus, thus began to plant the seeds of political, economic and cultural jihad in Europe. Less than 30 years after the end of World War II, it also revived some of the policies of the Nazis. The policies had migrated to the Middle East during World War II and afterwards, with the flight of Nazi fugitives to Egypt, Syria and other Arab nations. Now, Nazi ideology found its way back into European politics through the EAD launch of a unified European anti--Israel policy.?

    As for your Rand comment, get over it. The French, with a new leader who has a set of gonads, is busy rounding up illegals....


    ROFLMAO pt.3 (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by tnthorpe on Mon Sep 24, 2007 at 08:13:33 AM EST
    you're too too funny. I said "almost a $1 billion" and you stridently point out that the amount I referred to was only $943 million, which is almost, what?, $1 billion!
    Out in the "real world" that you continally prattle about, READING is a much valued skill. You ought to try it sometime on something other than your flat-out bonkers, wingnut websites. Take for example this nugget of nonsense from your vaunted  "American Thinker" (Uncle Sam a la Rodin's "The Thinker" is such a nice touch in the upper left corner).

     "In fact, Europe has denied its own roots and the spring from which its spiritual Biblical values emerged. It is a denial of one's own spirituality and? sources."  

    ROFLMAO pt.4 Yeah, I guess Spain isn't European since it was a Moorish province for hundreds of years, but what's a fact when you're wingnutting? Let's just forget the wild religious wars that only ended with the Peace of Westphalia in 1648 and the millions killed, displaced, or forcibly converted. There's your spiritual values in glorious technicolor, go read The Massacre at Paris by C. Marlowe and learn something!

    But please please keep posting your paranoid websites' ravings. Please keep dismissing those notoriously unhinged RAND reports.("get over it" you say, good argument there!) Please, because each time you do I'm going to be


    As a US Senator (none / 0) (#39)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 01:45:03 PM EST
    once said, a million here and a million there and the next thing you know you are talking about real money...

    And I note you don't defend the information, just duck and while making such claims as "read more," etc., etc.

    And your inability to understand legitimate concern by calling it paranoia just demonstrates again your lack of exposure to the real world.


    Please be honest. (1.00 / 0) (#35)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Sep 23, 2007 at 11:08:18 PM EST
    As usual when you don't like the result you attack the messenger....

    Please be honest. The article wasn't written by a website, but by the Invest Business Daily. A rather staid newspaper not know for wild attacks.


    Smooth, DA... (none / 0) (#26)
    by Edger on Sun Sep 23, 2007 at 04:43:26 PM EST
    edger - remembering providing this (1.00 / 1) (#30)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Sep 23, 2007 at 06:24:15 PM EST
    most riveting link showing the depth of your strategic thinking?

    In cases where a serious insurgency cannot be managed, the state and its supporters might consider an approach designed to deliberately encourage the insurgency to mutate into something less dangerous such as an organized criminal organization. This is never desirable, but there may be rare instances where organized crime is less of a threat than sustained insurgency. Call this strategic methadone.

    When I want a chuckle I just pull it up..


    Of course you do. (5.00 / 0) (#33)
    by Edger on Sun Sep 23, 2007 at 07:04:50 PM EST
    I know you get the giggles whenever you don't hear the whisting sound as things fly right past your head.

    It's the crack. It'll do it to you every time.


    Yeah (1.00 / 1) (#34)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Sep 23, 2007 at 11:04:24 PM EST
    Let me see.

    Okay Mohammed, you get the northside...

    Oh.. you want it all???

    You don't want money? Oh. World domination??



    Put smaller rocks in your pipe ppj. (5.00 / 0) (#36)
    by Edger on Sun Sep 23, 2007 at 11:12:11 PM EST
    I mean really...

    again.... (1.00 / 1) (#7)
    by Miss Devore on Sat Sep 22, 2007 at 07:23:24 PM EST

    Here are (none / 0) (#9)
    by Edger on Sat Sep 22, 2007 at 07:33:44 PM EST
    some ways to make links like this one.

    and the "1" (1.00 / 1) (#10)
    by Miss Devore on Sat Sep 22, 2007 at 07:46:49 PM EST
    was on general principle? I thought maybe people everywhere admired political courage.

    This one is for edger, squeaky and jondee (1.00 / 0) (#14)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Sep 23, 2007 at 09:56:14 AM EST
    who claimed to be unable to understand the problem with low birth rates in europe and the result of high immigration by Moslems. Enjoy.

    BTW - You too, tnthorpe. Just change the location to the US and make the influx illegal aliens.

    Eeeeeeeek! (none / 0) (#20)
    by Edger on Sun Sep 23, 2007 at 01:06:24 PM EST
    The killer bunnies are going to outbreed you, ppj.

    You'd better get busy doing pushups, ppj, and warming up your bombs. You might even have to start flying your own bombing runs. Or if you're scared of flying, I'm sure Blackwater is hiring, if you really want to make a contribution to the cause.

    Because If we don't bomb them over there, somewhere, anywhere, they'll swarm the beaches, overrun the land, kill everyone in their beds, and replace the constitution with Sharia Law, as soon as the smarten up enough to buy explosives to blow up an airport before they're arrested on the word of a paid FBI collaborating infiltrator. If they can get the pizza store to deliver a map of the airport. And there's hordes of 'em out there just wainting for their shot at you, ppj.

    Billions of 'em, peepeejay. Just ask AC.

    Only Rudy can save the world. Have faith.


    Your ability to ignore factual information (1.00 / 1) (#16)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Sep 23, 2007 at 11:00:46 AM EST
    about problems is truly astonishing.

    Of course you do that because you don't want to have your belief system challenged.

    I believe you haven't even read the article, much less actually thought about it.

    I urge you to read it. Think about it. Two aspirins will make the headache go away.

    Good opinion piece from the NYT yesterday... (none / 0) (#3)
    by Edger on Sat Sep 22, 2007 at 05:53:26 PM EST
    ...for the most part: In Search of a Congress

    They start off so well it's tempting to go with them all the way...

    I started to write a comment here about it, but it got so long I ended up posting it as a new diary: In Search Of A Reality

    able danger? (none / 0) (#5)
    by Sumner on Sat Sep 22, 2007 at 07:03:47 PM EST


    NSA takes on more to do


    Joe Francis starts a blog

    Video (none / 0) (#11)
    by Edger on Sat Sep 22, 2007 at 08:14:56 PM EST
    ok, hate the messenger (none / 0) (#12)
    by Miss Devore on Sat Sep 22, 2007 at 08:30:50 PM EST
    but the Republican mayor of San Diego wins the political courage award of the year and then some, for reversing his stance on gay marriage. Talk Left til you are hoarse.

    Racist backlash Jena 6 (none / 0) (#13)
    by Aaron on Sun Sep 23, 2007 at 04:01:07 AM EST
    Actually . . . (none / 0) (#18)
    by Randinho on Sun Sep 23, 2007 at 11:47:41 AM EST
    My diary entry was titled "Weller Calls It Quits."