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Sunday Open Thread and Abu Ghraib

Happy Fathers Day, everyone. How about a Sunday open thread?

The must-read of the day in my view is Seymour Hersh's New Yorker article on Abu Ghraib, The General's Report.

Taguba also knew that senior officials in Rumsfeld’s office and elsewhere in the Pentagon had been given a graphic account of the pictures from Abu Ghraib, and told of their potential strategic significance, within days of the first complaint.

A sample of what we didn't see:

I learned from Taguba that the first wave of materials included descriptions of the sexual humiliation of a father with his son, who were both detainees....Taguba said that he saw “a video of a male American soldier in uniform sodomizing a female detainee.” The video was not made public in any of the subsequent court proceedings, nor has there been any public government mention of it.

Why didn't we see them?

Such images would have added an even more inflammatory element to the outcry over Abu Ghraib. “It’s bad enough that there were photographs of Arab men wearing women’s panties,” Taguba said.

More on Rumsfeld:

.... Rumsfeld, in his appearances before the Senate and the House Armed Services Committees on May 7th, claimed to have had no idea of the extensive abuse. “It breaks our hearts that in fact someone didn’t say, ‘Wait, look, this is terrible. We need to do something,’ ” Rumsfeld told the congressmen. “I wish we had known more, sooner, and been able to tell you more sooner, but we didn’t.”

Taguba is portrayed a fall guy. Rumsfeld knew.

“The whole idea that Rumsfeld projects—‘We’re here to protect the nation from terrorism’—is an oxymoron,” Taguba said. “He and his aides have abused their offices and have no idea of the values and high standards that are expected of them. And they’ve dragged a lot of officers with them.

If you didn't follow the Taguba report when it was released:

Taguba was given the job of investigating Abu Ghraib because of circumstance: the senior officer of the 800th Military Police Brigade, to which the soldiers in the photographs belonged, was a one-star general; Army regulations required that the head of the inquiry be senior to the commander of the unit being investigated, and Taguba, a two-star general, was available. “It was as simple as that,” he said. He vividly remembers his first thought upon seeing the photographs in late January of 2004: “Unbelievable! What were these people doing?” There was an immediate second thought: “This is big.

Update: More from Raw Story.

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  • Display: Sort:
    New Meme (none / 0) (#1)
    by JHFarr on Sun Jun 17, 2007 at 01:58:29 PM EST
    Was just over at Digby's reading about "no shame, no conscience" on a related matter.

    Here's my Sunday morning take:

    It's so obvious,  yet so earthshaking that almost no one with the possible exception of Arthur Silber realizes what's going on: there simply is no "fixing" for all of this. The human race is (or has already) split into two different species. Everything, and I mean everything, is about to phase into an entirely new dimension. Amazingly, this will not be a bad thing.

    Works for me, I gotta tell ya.

    Morlocks and Eloi (none / 0) (#2)
    by Alien Abductee on Sun Jun 17, 2007 at 02:11:49 PM EST
    There's hardly any outrage conservatives haven't defended these past six years. Cannibalism might just be next.

    Parent
    I'd have no problem with that. (none / 0) (#4)
    by Edger on Sun Jun 17, 2007 at 03:09:31 PM EST
    As long as they only go after each other.

    Parent
    Ongoing Investigation (none / 0) (#3)
    by squeaky on Sun Jun 17, 2007 at 03:05:19 PM EST
    I learned from Taguba that the first wave of materials included descriptions of the sexual humiliation of a father with his son, who were both detainees. Several of these images, including one of an Iraqi woman detainee baring her breasts, have since surfaced; others have not. (Taguba's report noted that photographs and videos were being held by the C.I.D. because of ongoing criminal investigations and their "extremely sensitive nature.") Taguba said that he saw "a video of a male American soldier in uniform sodomizing a female detainee." The video was not made public in any of the subsequent court proceedings, nor has there been any public government mention of it. Such images would have added an even more inflammatory element to the outcry over Abu Ghraib. "It's bad enough that there were photographs of Arab men wearing women's panties," Taguba said.

    Tippity Top Secret,  Ed Meese is going to have a look, maybe even do a new report.

    Neocon quote of the day. (none / 0) (#5)
    by Edger on Sun Jun 17, 2007 at 04:13:49 PM EST
    U.S. Declares Victory In Gaza: Bush Policies Vindicated
    If you're a neocon, you might see everything that has happened in Iraq and Gaza as exactly what Bush planned all along:
    Five years ago, Middle Eastern extremists were killing Israelis and Americans. Today they are killing each other. Why is it that some people persist in claiming that Israel's and America's Middle East policy is a failure?" -- Alan Chamberlain
    Never mind all that stuff about cakewalks, natives tossing flowers, getting bin Laden and missions accomplished.  Victory and success are fungible concepts; or, to borrow a page from the Rumsfeld handbook of warfare, "you define success as the results you have, not the results you wanted."
    [h/t to Dr. X & Dr. Sanity]

    Edger (1.00 / 0) (#6)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 17, 2007 at 06:05:22 PM EST
    Hmmmm.....

    Come to think of it, the dude has a point.

    Guess the conversion from terrorists to criminals didn't work.

    Parent

    The dude has a point. (none / 0) (#7)
    by Edger on Sun Jun 17, 2007 at 07:59:23 PM EST
    You noticed? How? You heard the whistling sound as it went past you?

    Parent
    edger (1.00 / 1) (#8)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 12:16:32 AM EST
    The dude I was referring to is:

    Five years ago, Middle Eastern extremists were killing Israelis and Americans. Today they are killing each other. Why is it that some people persist in claiming that Israel's and America's Middle East policy is a failure?" -- Alan Chamberlain

    If Israel and the US had tried to change them into criminals we'd still at square one.

    As to how anyone would claim, even tongue in cheek, that the neocons planned this is well.... capable of believeing the terrorist to criminals bit.

    Parent

    I hate to point out the obvious, but (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by Al on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 01:56:25 AM EST
    the perpetrators of the 9-11 attacks, and those of bomb attacks against Israelis, are not Iraqis. And they certainly weren't the people that were sodomized at Abu Ghraib.

    And nobody is claiming that the neocons planned anything, PPJ. We all know that you are incapable of planning tomorrow's breakfast correctly.

    Parent

    Source of the Chamberlain quote (none / 0) (#11)
    by Edger on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 08:14:08 AM EST
    Every Thorn Has a Rose:
    A friend in Israel notes that, during the previous week, whenever the television news would announce a possible ceasefire between the Palestinian factions of Hamas and Fatah, her husband would shout towards the television, "No! No! Don't do it!"

    True to their schools of bloodlust, they didn't. And in victory finished off what enemies they could in classic Palestinian style, forced surrender followed summary execution in the streets, in front of the fighters' wives, mothers, and children whenever possible. No Gitmo for these combatants.

    The same friend also notes that rooting for the fighting to continue in Gaza is one of the secret or not-so-secret joys of being an Israeli this June. Rush Limbaugh in one of his waggish moments this morning noted that global diplomats relished the civil war because it would bring about a need for a three-state solution.

    Israeli defense officials were not quite so jovial in public, but did note that one of the future benefits of the "triumph" of Hamas in Gaza and elsewhere would be a target-rich environment.



    Parent
    Al (none / 0) (#13)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 09:04:43 AM EST
    Uh, we have gone through this before Al.

    Iraq was an enabler of the terrorists.

    I have provided the links, etc. that show this.

    Simply put for the zillionth time, old enemies will unite against a common enemy. We have done it ourselves with the Soviets against Germany and Japan, only to resume our hostile activities against each other as soon as possible after their defeat.

    To not understand that is to deny common sense.

    The second issue is that you, because it is convenient, try to focus only on Iraq as a "war."
    This is a misnomer. Iraq is a battle within what some call WWIV...others a WOT..Others understand that it really is a culture war. We think because jihad, suicide bombing and the boiling hatreds against the west, as well as each other, is not understandable to us that if we could just get them to talk to us and each other, all would be okay. That's not true. We may not understand, but it makes perfect sense to them. As others have said

    We are in a new phase of a very old war.


    Parent
    repeating a lie ... (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by Sailor on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 04:16:22 PM EST
    ... does not make it the truth
    Iraq was an enabler of the terrorists.
    there is very little evidence of that, and bush is a much larger enabler of terrorism.

    iraq had no WMDs, no ability to harm us and no connection to 9/11. All of those lies were told repeatedly to panic bedwetters into going along with what has always been the neoclown plan for world domination.

    Parent

    How to win friends and influence people (none / 0) (#12)
    by Edger on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 08:49:10 AM EST
    One Iraqi's collateral damage:
    Ahlam Ahmed Mahmoud al Al-Jabouri, a 42-year-old mother of three, belongs to another category of imperiled citizens-turned-refugees whom no one seems to care about. She is among thousands of Iraqis who have worked in seemingly less exposed positions for the U.S. and Iraqi authorities, carrying out administrative tasks, rendering basic services or, as in Ahlam's case, doling out crucial humanitarian aid to the people of her country.

    But even delivering help to the poor, the handicapped and the displaced did not spare Ahlam from being labeled a traitor by some of her fellow Sunnis. In the past two years, Ahlam has been kidnapped and tortured, was forced to flee Iraq, and lost one of her teenage sons under dubious circumstances. Although she was officially recognized for her exemplary humanitarian work by the U.S. Army more than two years ago, U.S. authorities have done little to help her, and