Bush Uses Va. Tech to Push Religion

Dan Froomkin at the Washington Post notes President Bush used his speech at Tipp City to push for religious revival.

One of the things I try to assure the families and the students and the faculty of that fine university was that there are a lot of people around our country who are praying for them. It's interesting here in Tipp City, the first thing that happened was a moment of silence, a moment of prayer, to provide -- at least my prayer was, please comfort and strengthen those whose lives were affected by this horrible incident. It really speaks to the strength of this country, doesn't it, that total strangers here in Ohio are willing to hold up people in Virginia in prayer. And I thank you for that. And my message to the folks who still hurt in -- at Virginia Tech is that a lot of people care about you, and a lot of people think about you, a lot of people grieve with you, and a lot of people hope you find sustenance in a power higher than yourself. And a lot of us believe you will."

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    Bush is not pushing religion (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by Al on Sat Apr 21, 2007 at 12:38:39 PM EST
    He's pushing himself as a religious person. He works very hard on his persona: a stern, but compassionate decider, guided by Jesus.

    I don't hear many religious people disowning him.

    Leftist cooocks fear Religion (none / 0) (#15)
    by mattsanchez on Sun Apr 22, 2007 at 12:44:31 AM EST
    The paranoid and powerless left has a huge fear--religiosity.  



    I thank you for that... (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by desertswine on Sat Apr 21, 2007 at 12:51:19 PM EST
    Bush is an obvious head-case and needs to be removed from office.

    Response to tragedy at VT (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by SpeakUpIllinois on Sat Apr 21, 2007 at 12:51:54 PM EST
    Comment in response to ILLINOIS REVIEW article from Thursday, April 19, 2007

    Mental health screening is penny wise and pound foolish. It will not pick up the sad souls such as Mr. Cho. It will unnecessarily scare and traumatize the innocent. 11% of the population is mentally ill.

    What we need is prevention, not mass hysteria. Mental health care needs to be elevated to the status of acceptable, the IN thing; where ALL have quick and easy access.

    Right now if you get it you are a leper in society. People shun you instead of embrace you. Your career is in jeopardy and you have three strikes against success and happiness in life.
    There obviously were many warning signs with Mr. Cho which were ignored. Our demasculinated society, where we ignore the wrongs and problems in front of our face, talk the talk, but rarely walk the walk, ignore our neighbors, fail to intervene when children -not our own bully and fight in the park, fail to support activists who defend our rights, put ourselves on a pedestal and go all out to enrich our selves and put ourselves before others, don't care who we step on to achieve our greedy goals, and generally are passive sheep to the slaughter motivated by greed, selfishness, and lack of empathy is to blame.

    God Bless Mr. Cho's family. Like the Amish, we should reach out to them, comfort them, and assure them they had nothing to do with this catastrophe. They should be encouraged to help come up with a plan to improve mental health care so they feel closure and peace.

    Unfortunately, wearing blinders is a sign of population explosion. We cope with population stress by wearing blinders to what is around us. We need extensive research as to how to avoid this. In Asian societies, the philosophy of community first and individual second has provided thousands of years of proven worth. Ways to achieve this in Western cultures may be a START at addressing the issues.

    When we live as a village, caring for others MORE than ourselves, we will be able to help the Mr. Cho's at an early stage, by recognizing signs of instability and psychosis, helping them get treatment, having them accept treatment because it is the IN thing to do and embracing them and honoring them for doing so for the betterment of society, for successfully continuing treatment.
    United we stand. Divided we fall. If we do not unite to care about each other MORE than ourselves, our society will be no more to be admired than those who waited at the deathbed of the dying woman in "Zorba the Greek."
    This is a wake up call to America, to stop the greed. God Bless the victims, Mr. Cho and his family.

    Posted by: Linda Shelton Ph.D., M.D. | Saturday, April 21, 2007 at 05:48 AM

    I object (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by HK on Sat Apr 21, 2007 at 01:36:03 PM EST
    as a non-religious person to the connotation that only those who have beliefs can show true compassion in times of tragedy.  What BS.  If I have any 'beliefs' they are that the most important things in this world are reaching out to others and addressing issues that trouble us in a practical, fair and level-headed way at their root.  While I respect those who lead a religious life, I do have a problem with those who simply seem to want to show they have God on their team.  And call me pragmatic, but I think my approach is likely to meet with a lot more success than falling to our knees and hoping with our hands pressed together.  Pray if you wish, but lets see some action too.

    Kudos to SpeakUpIllinois for acknowledging above that Cho's family are hurting too.

    Life may be MORE precious to those w/o beliefs. (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by lilybart on Sat Apr 21, 2007 at 02:19:09 PM EST
    I say, that if people had real doubts and accepted the possibility that THIS LIFE IS IT (at least in the form and with the memories and stuff in our brains that ceases to be animated and accessible upon death) then people might just value life more than if they think that some God will make our boo boos all better and let us live with him with great music and fun clouds for eterntity.

    I really believe that religion makes people accept war and other mass death, because if those that died loved God, then no problemo, they are in heaven.


    Why? (none / 0) (#1)
    by TomStewart on Sat Apr 21, 2007 at 12:20:54 PM EST
    Why after a tragedy like Virgina Tech or a disaster such as Katrina, do I see people thanking God for saving/sparing them? Aren't they really just thanking God for killing their neighbors rather than themselves? I mean if God saved them, doesn't that mean he killed others in their stead?

    Bush always turns to his religious speeches, as platitudes are all he can offer. Does he really believe what he says? Maybe, but from his talking about his beliefs he comes off as shallow, little thinking and little questioning. At least he didn't do a blow-by-blow description of the event, like he did at the VT ceremony for the victims, forcing people to relive the event, causing fainting in the crowd. What is this man thinking?

    Wow (none / 0) (#4)
    by scarshapedstar on Sat Apr 21, 2007 at 12:51:52 PM EST
    It really speaks to the strength of this country, doesn't it, that total strangers here in Ohio are willing to hold up people in Virginia in prayer.

    Lord knows there's nothing more meaningful than that. Ask anyone from Katrinaland, we didn't want ice or water or food, what we really wanted was the deep spiritual sustenance of knowing that George Bush, a man who hasn't been to church in decades, is "praying for us".

    I think every American ought to have a "Keepin' them in my prayers" list like Stephen Colbert. Let's see... we can probably take off "Family of James Brown" and put up "Virginia Tech". Man, this country is awesome!


    The boundries of snark have been crossed ... (none / 0) (#8)
    by Sailor on Sat Apr 21, 2007 at 02:46:01 PM EST
    ... and my god will be preying on their souls.

    He said this to surviving engineering (none / 0) (#9)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Apr 21, 2007 at 04:14:06 PM EST
    students?  What a hoot!  Those guys are always such suckers for religiosity ;)

    Not engineering students (none / 0) (#10)
    by Gabriel Malor on Sat Apr 21, 2007 at 05:32:38 PM EST
    Militarytracy, he spoke at a high school, not to engineering students or survivors of VaTech. And what makes you think that engineers are not religious?

    To the rest of you, I wonder why many religious folks in this country think the Democratic party is hostle to religion?

    Keep it up guys. Say that stuff as loud as you can and as often as you can. Call it "pushing religion." Watch those votes come roaring in.


    Good question Gabriel (5.00 / 2) (#12)
    by Edger on Sat Apr 21, 2007 at 05:51:54 PM EST
    Since no one here has expressed hostility towards religion, and you are the one who has made the accusation, maybe you have some thoughts on "why many religious folks in this country think the Democratic party is [hostile] to religion?"

    Burden of proof, etc., etc.

    Sure you're not. (none / 0) (#20)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Apr 22, 2007 at 09:00:54 AM EST
    Some things speak for themselves.

    Good thinking (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by Al on Sun Apr 22, 2007 at 12:26:56 AM EST
    Because the important thing is to say the right words so that religious people will vote for you. Boy, you're clever.

    I'm not hostile to religion at all (none / 0) (#11)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Apr 21, 2007 at 05:44:36 PM EST
    I'm Buddhist.  It is my walk though.  It isn't your walk, it isn't the walk of the guy who lives next door to me........it is mine.  It is precious to me.  I think that if you are a spiritual person it is most likely that yours is precious to you as well.  I don't look to step on people with my faith or shove it down their throats.  It is mine.  It accopanies through my days.  It colors everything I do sometimes with glorious shades but not so lately........it even defines my latelies for me though.  With as precious as it is to me how can I ever attempt to enforce it or shove it down anybody elses throat?  With as precious as my religious beliefs are to me why would I ever defile someone else's religious beliefs.  Defiling theirs doesn't make mine anything......it only means while I was defiling theirs I wasn't living mine.  When I approach others though without respecting their beliefs I defile my relationship with them as a human being.  I love my faith because according to the Book of the Dead when I attend someone's passing I am to focus on who their Buddha was.....was their Buddha Jesus........was it Mohammad......that is who I am to focus my spiritual attentions on as I sit with them during their last moments on earth if I truly loved them and I was truly their friend.  It was their walk and this is mine!

    Tracy - Oh really?? (none / 0) (#19)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Apr 22, 2007 at 08:58:08 AM EST
    You should look back and see who threw the first stone. You did.

    You are either hostile to religion, or you are so hostile to Bush that you can't keep from attacking him for any reason you can find.

    I think there is a pathology there.


    First Stone? (5.00 / 2) (#31)
    by squeaky on Sun Apr 22, 2007 at 11:06:31 AM EST
    You should look back at all the muslim bashing you have done. Your most oft repeated slur (which is false) is that muslim terrorists are happy to kill themselves and others because the Koran promises that they will party down with 72 virgins after martyring themselves.

    Okay, they are not happy (none / 0) (#34)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Apr 22, 2007 at 02:30:42 PM EST
    I know you think you are coy (none / 0) (#35)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Apr 22, 2007 at 02:43:02 PM EST
    and cute and I know that there are those who claim to be of the Muslim faith that could martyr themselves to harm me.  There are people who claim to be Christians that could martyr themselves to harm me too.  The military intelligence officer that became close friends with my husband taught a very detailed course on Islam to soldiers......the Muslims you speak of are so rare they are almost nonexistent in the huge population on the planet calling itself Muslim.  What is sad though is that the more "collateral" damage we cause in Iraq the more reason we give surviving Iraqi family members to hate us and unite with anybody who also claims we are their enemy.  The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

    Nope (none / 0) (#37)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Apr 22, 2007 at 03:37:41 PM EST
    I know that there are those who claim to be of the Muslim faith that could martyr themselves to harm me.  There are people who claim to be Christians that could martyr themselves to harm me too.

    Did you mean "could" or "would?" If you mean "could," then your statement is meaningless since anyone "could."

    If you mean "would," then it makes sense. Of course I think we all could name Moslem terrorist organizations that have demonstrated that they would.

    But for the life of me I don't know any Christian Organizations that "would" do that. But then I haven't been paying attention to those Southern Baptists lately.

    Your use of the "collateral damage causes terrorists" is also not true. If it were true, then we would have had millions of German, Italian and Japanese terrorists after WWII.

    The creation of terrorists is not collateral damage, but a social and religous structure that denies basic rights to young Moslem men while feeding them the lie that it is the fault of the west they are marginalized in almost all aspects of their lives.


    Christianists (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by squeaky on Sun Apr 22, 2007 at 03:52:22 PM EST
    Not following the news again ppj.

    Someone just killed a whole bunch of people in the name of Jesus the other day at a University in Virginia.

    And was the mention of Southern Baptists supposed to be some kind of slur? Or are they known for terrorism?


    squeaky (none / 0) (#39)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Apr 22, 2007 at 04:50:53 PM EST
    The reference was to organizations.

    BTW - Anyone... Did the killer claim to be a Christian??? I didn't watch his statement.

    Or are you claiming that a reference to an Old Testament person makes the person a Christian. If you are doing that, then why not Moslem?? Or Jew???

    And just for you squeaky, and no one else. No. It was something called sarcasm. Really, you should get out more often.


    No (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by squeaky on Sun Apr 22, 2007 at 05:08:14 PM EST
    The reference was to organizations.

    Well you just made that up because neither MilitaryTracy nor your quote of her said anything about organizations.


    Maybe some of them are (none / 0) (#36)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Apr 22, 2007 at 02:46:48 PM EST
    OFF TOPIC (none / 0) (#44)
    by Sailor on Mon Apr 23, 2007 at 12:44:30 PM EST
    and yet a personal best for the most wrongwing wacko site yet presented in Yet Another Psychotic Episode of All About Jim.

    Paganism (none / 0) (#13)
    by koshembos on Sat Apr 21, 2007 at 06:18:29 PM EST
    Muslims, Jews and European Christian don't state that god helped them win a ball game. They also don't pray with the drop of the hat. Bush is not a religious person or at least he does not possess a deep spiritual inner self; he is a pagan who believe in a set of external practices some people refer to as a religion. He does encourage paganism and it's fine with me.

    For similar reasons many so called "religious folks" are hostile to Democrats. Their 'religion" is economic Darwinism, support for the rich, the perfection of hate, anti-environment, use of force and substantial racism. This is paganism as a religion and extreme rightism as a political belief.

    Democrat problem with Religion (none / 0) (#16)
    by mattsanchez on Sun Apr 22, 2007 at 12:48:07 AM EST
    Leftists have problems with Christianity.  Christians believe that they are flawed and seek grace through repentance.  Leftists believe everyone else is flawed and seek resolution through imposition.


    Let me add a corollary (5.00 / 2) (#33)
    by Repack Rider on Sun Apr 22, 2007 at 11:40:22 AM EST
    Leftists believe everyone else is flawed and seek resolution through imposition.

    Since we're on a strawman roll, why don't you allow me to define conservatives?  As you have shown, I can make up any position for them that suits my argument, and I won't need ny more evidence than you presented for ther "leftist" view.

    Conservatives want to impose their religious views on everyone who does not share them, and would like to enshrine them in the Constitution as well.  See, I said it, so it must be true!

    Wow, this strawman stuff is fun!  Would you like me to tell you more about what you think and why that's bad?  I can argue your worthless side for you, tell the world what your silly positions are on everything, and you won't even have to take part!


    Republican problem with Christianity (none / 0) (#18)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sun Apr 22, 2007 at 06:24:50 AM EST
    Matthew 19:24...

    And again I say to you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.


    And then (none / 0) (#22)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Apr 22, 2007 at 09:05:35 AM EST
    and render unto Casear the things that are Casear's

    Is that original?? (none / 0) (#23)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Apr 22, 2007 at 09:13:20 AM EST
    I love it and am gonna keep it.

    sarcasm alert (none / 0) (#21)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Apr 22, 2007 at 09:03:52 AM EST
    Nor would moslems....

    DA (none / 0) (#40)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Apr 22, 2007 at 04:56:04 PM EST
    Glad to see that you can come up with one.

    BTW - Are you arguing that the Taliban was for women's rights? al-Qaida?

    Can you explain the honor killings??

    The world awaits your vast knowledge..

    Oh, okay, no one gives a flip, but here's your chance to demonstrate a little humility and admit your wrong.

    boogey boogey DA


    ppj ... (none / 0) (#45)
    by Sailor on Mon Apr 23, 2007 at 12:46:08 PM EST
    ... supported the taliban before he was against them.

    If ppj types hadn't armed them they could have taken afghanistan over.


    When prayer starts resurrecting the dead... (none / 0) (#24)
    by Aaron on Sun Apr 22, 2007 at 09:35:30 AM EST
    ...that's when I'll start praying for them.

    I believe in and understand the importance of faith, but for George W. Bush and the Bush administration, faith is nothing more than a tool used to manipulate and dupe a segment of the population into supporting them, as many fundamentalist Christians have come to realize.  George's kind of faith is nothing more than a con.

    The whole damn Bush administration are nothing but a bunch of grifters who never miss an opportunity to work an angle.  Hard to believe these scum sucking chiselers are in control of America, and there's nothing we can do about it.

    If God were really listening and watching then George would be burning in hell right now.  He'd be slow roasting the entire Bush administration over an open fire.  

    Pray for America.  

    Do you folks really want a world (none / 0) (#26)
    by Deconstructionist on Sun Apr 22, 2007 at 09:51:40 AM EST
     where no one in public life says anyhting of substance concernng their views of spirituality (or lack of)? No one is forcing you to agree with anyone and, obviously, some of you take great pride in disagreeing. Would it be better if we swept the existence of the diversity of thoughts and beliefs hidden? Should public figures be intentionally misleading-- or merely silent-- as to their views on a matter that is obviously of such great concern to so many?

      The very fact so many of you make it obvious that you consider the holding of certain religious beliefs reason to distrust and dislike people should be be reason for you to want them to express those beliefs so you know who to oppose.

    Perfect description of Bushworld, decon. TTU (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by Edger on Sun Apr 22, 2007 at 09:54:30 AM EST
    When a Car Salesperson or any salesperson says... (none / 0) (#42)
    by Freewill on Sun Apr 22, 2007 at 05:31:56 PM EST
    "Trust me I'm a Christian" or brings up their religious views to me, a stranger, I know it's time to look for another seller.

    It's not their beliefs I object to it's the fact that they are using their religious beliefs to try and convince me to buy their product. Why? So they can make a profit?

    Sell me the product based on the merits of the product and do not try to entice me to buy from you merely because evoke your Spiritualism as reason for me to purchase the product.

    The products they promote have nothing to do with Religion. Do not confuse the two for they are not one and the same!

    In Politics, products are equal to the speeches, promises, laws, appointments and etc... that politicians produce. Sell me the law, sell me the reason for your position on this or that but do not make a simplified statement that you are religious and therefore are entitled to behave in a manor which allows you to avoid the real reasons why you did what you did!


    There is just as much hostility.... (none / 0) (#28)
    by kdog on Sun Apr 22, 2007 at 10:28:40 AM EST
    towards non-believers, if not more so.

    Take a look at Sanchez's posts.  Just switch Christians and Leftists.

    My take is..if you believe in an all-knowing, all-powerful man in the clouds, you better be thick-skinned and prepared for some ridicule.  

    I believe that sunblock lotions cause skin cancer, I have the same amount of evidence as believers do, I expect ridicule.  Suck it up guys.

    Re: sunblock lotions cause skin cancer (none / 0) (#29)
    by Edger on Sun Apr 22, 2007 at 10:48:12 AM EST
    Indirectly they probably do.

    Discussion of religion (none / 0) (#30)
    by Edger on Sun Apr 22, 2007 at 10:49:10 AM EST
    appear to cause cancer of the attitude.

    Yes many... (none / 0) (#32)
    by Deconstructionist on Sun Apr 22, 2007 at 11:25:06 AM EST
    ...believers are hostile to non-believers and many non-believers are hostile to believers. That's sad and leads to nothing more than narrow-minded assertions of "you're bad and wrong" from both.  I wish it wasn't so and more people could disagree and challenge one another without the intolerant invective.

      But, my point was that since so many people are hostile they should want public figures to be open about their views so they know toward whom to be hostile. That goes just as much toward religious people being able to identify people who hold  beliefs they despise as it does anti-religious beliefs being able to identify religious ones.

       I'd prefer it if more people who believe in a particular conception of God could respect other conceptions and the belief there is no God and if more people who are convinced there is no God could respect those who do believe in God or at least consider the possibility an unanswered question.

      However, one not read much here, to see how far we are from that. The visceral hatred here toward people of certain faiths  is often frightening and is countered by an equally frightening animus among some people of faith.