Dems Determined To Own Iraq Debacle

In for a quick post on an important issue

Via Turkana, we see that Steny Hoyer and Rahmbo are determined to have Dems own the Iraq Debacle:

House Democratic leaders could complete work as soon as Monday on a half-trillion-dollar spending package that will include billions of dollars for the war effort in Iraq without the timelines for the withdrawal of combat forces that President Bush has refused to accept, House Majority Leader Steny H. Hoyer (D-Md.) said yesterday. . . . "The way you pass appropriations bills is you get agreement among all the relevant players, among which the president with his veto pen is a very relevant player," Hoyer said. "Everybody knows he has no intention of signing anything without money for Iraq, unfettered, without constraints. I think that's ultimately going to be the result."

What a loser Hoyer is. If "everybody [knew] that [the Democratic House] ha[d] no intention of [passing] anything with[] money for Iraq, unfettered, without constraints[,]" then ultimately THAT would be the result.

What a pathetic cowardly loser Hoyer is. There is no difference between Democrats and Republicans on Iraq. They both own it.

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    Amen, and DOUBLE Amen! (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by JHFarr on Sat Dec 08, 2007 at 09:52:59 AM EST
    There is no difference between Democrats and Republicans on Iraq. They both own it.

    So remind me again: why is the tremendous energy of the blogosphere wasted in trying to elect MORE of them? Being the lesser of two evils is no longer enough to get my vote.

    Our democracy is simply broken. A majority voted for peace, and this is what we get. I have no respect for any Democrats any more.

    No No No No you fools! (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Dec 08, 2007 at 10:04:47 AM EST
    According to Wapo Pelosi is going to have to garner a large Republican support to get this through because too many Dems are going to say NO to it.  She's really going to make an effort to garner support from folks with an ideology that 70% of America wants nothing to with?  The whack jobs are still going to run this country just because Steny Hoyer says we must do this or be "slain" by the veto pen?

    Actually, I think what's going to happen (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by andgarden on Sat Dec 08, 2007 at 10:18:28 AM EST
    is exactly what happened in the spring. Steny will divide the question with the rule, and there will be two votes on agreeing to the Senate amendments: one on the domestic spending, which will pass mostly with Democratic votes, and one on the war funding, which will pass mostly with Republican votes.

    I actually think David Sirota might have been on to something last time (though he seemed incapable of articulating the problem accurately), and Democrats should absolutely oppose the rule that would control debate for this supplemental.


    Yes. (none / 0) (#6)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 08, 2007 at 11:19:45 AM EST
    Democrats "should" do many things that they don't....

    Hi MilitaryTracy (none / 0) (#16)
    by flyer01 on Mon Dec 10, 2007 at 06:49:04 AM EST
    Hi militarytracy, sorry to stuff you around - would you mind trying to email again to this address (the first address I gave you omitted the .au):

    Thank you once again,

    P.S. I have just one quick question to you regarding some comment you made on military flying


    Hoyer (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by hughsie on Sat Dec 08, 2007 at 10:36:32 AM EST
    I am 59 years old.I have voted in every election that I was eligible for.98% of the time it has been the Democrat. If this situation of enabling "President Stupid" by giving him $$ for this FIASCO, I will not vote in 2008. I have given money in the past.I will not do that either.I no longer care.I urge all to follow my lead.If the will of the people is ignored, we have no country. PATHETIC Democrats have blown it!

    Real crisis (5.00 / 3) (#7)
    by Al on Sat Dec 08, 2007 at 12:02:00 PM EST
    It's fairly clear there is a major crisis in the political system, in that a large segment of the population, perhaps a majority, are unrepresented by either party. Progressives have been told repeatedly  they must vote Democrat, because the other option is too horrible to countenance. So the Democratic politicians go after the right, knowing that they've got anybody to the left of Attila the Hun in the bag. In fact, Democrats and Republicans are hardly distinguishable. The United States needs at least one new political movement, radically different from, and independent of, the two existing parties.

    Boo Hoo. (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 08, 2007 at 12:20:51 PM EST
    Tell us, skeeters....

    How many votes do you think it takes to not introduce or pass a funding bill?

    Is your middle name talex by any chance?

    You're right.... (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by Lora on Sat Dec 08, 2007 at 01:11:11 PM EST
    There is no difference between Democrats and Republicans on Iraq. They both own it.

    Let's look beyond the "loser" reason and figure out why, really, this is so.

    Dems act like Repubs when it is more to their interest to do so than not to do so.

    Even though it appears that it is in their best interest to do what they were elected to do, their actions tell us it is not.

    What do the Repubs have over them?  What big corporate money do our elected Dems need?  These questions deserve some exploring.  They can't ALL be pathetic losers.  Just like the media people who use bogus arguments for the administration and against the Democrats in subtle and not-so-subtle ways can't ALL be idiots.

    What does who have over them? (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 08, 2007 at 01:19:32 PM EST
    August 4, 2006, Ari Berman, The Nation
    AIPAC's Hold
    In early March [2006], the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) held its forty-seventh annual conference in Washington. AIPAC's executive director spent twenty-seven minutes reading the "roll call" of dignitaries present at the gala dinner, which included a majority of the Senate and a quarter of the House, along with dozens of Administration officials.
    On July 18, the Senate unanimously approved a nonbinding resolution "condemning Hamas and Hezbollah and their state sponsors and supporting Israel's exercise of its right to self-defense." After House majority leader John Boehner removed language from the bill urging "all sides to protect innocent civilian life and infrastructure," the House version passed by a landslide, 410 to 8.
    AIPAC not only lobbied for the resolution; it had written it. "They [Congress] were given a resolution by AIPAC," said former Carter Administration National Security Adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski, who addressed the House Democratic Caucus on July 19. "They didn't prepare one."
    When it comes to the Israeli-Arab conflict, the terms of debate are so influenced by organized Jewish groups, like AIPAC, that to be critical of Israel is to deny oneself the ability to succeed in American politics.

    If you are trying to start a war of words, (none / 0) (#12)
    by oculus on Sat Dec 08, 2007 at 02:05:42 PM EST
    his will probably do it.

    I'm reading The Man in the White Sharkskin Suit: My family's Exodus from Old Cairo to the New World, by Lucette Lagnado.  The author, a Jew born in Cairo, states Jews lived peacefully in the Middle East for many generations, until the Israel was founded; then the tide changed and Jews were forced to leave Egypt by Nasser and the same result elsewhere in the Middle East.  This was a new concept for me, a former midwest U.S. Protestant.


    War of words? (none / 0) (#13)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 08, 2007 at 02:29:38 PM EST

    I'm trying to find a way to make people - voters - remember that they have the power to stop all this crap from Congress anytime they remember that they have the power to stop all this crap from Congress.


    Well put Edger (none / 0) (#15)
    by ctrenta on Sat Dec 08, 2007 at 08:53:55 PM EST

    I COMPLETELY agree with you 100%! Thank you for saying this. I've brought up this same point before on other blogs (and did it politely, mind you) before others swooped in and accused me of being offensive, this, that, yaddah, yaddah, yaddah. This is something that needs to be brought up again and again.

    I'm glad we can agree on something!


    Yep.... (none / 0) (#1)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 08, 2007 at 09:52:44 AM EST
    They both own it. It was the "plan" all along, I think.

    But, I'm starting to really wonder if there really is a "both". Or just a "them"....

    There is a difference (none / 0) (#14)
    by chemoelectric on Sat Dec 08, 2007 at 03:03:09 PM EST
    The difference is that 'Republicans' do it to support their party, while Democrats do it because they prefer it.