Thursday Open Thread

I've got early court today, leaving at 7:30 a.m. Big Tent Democrat is taking a few weeks off and won't be posting much. So, I hope you'll all contribute some comments.

Check out my post on Mike Huckabee and Wayne Dumond over at Firedoglake, Mike Huckabee's Tangled Web.

I'll be back at some point today.

Update: Stop back this afternoon if you'd like to read an interview with LNIR, John Wesley Hall, Wayne Dumond's attorney, about the case, Huckabee, Tucker and Clinton. I have some final edits to do before I post it.

< Another Record Set in Prison Nation | Mike Huckabee's Tangled Web >
  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft

  • Display: Sort:
    Republican of the Week (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by radioleft on Thu Dec 06, 2007 at 01:28:31 PM EST
    Today's Republican of the Day is Trent Lott's brother-in-law Dickie Scruggs who was indicted on six counts including bribery. Scruggs is an attorney who handles Katrina cases. He tried to give the judge $40,000 to sway cases before him. Is that why Mississippi has done so well since Katrina and Louisiana hasn't? The Dems in Louisiana forgot to payoff the right Republicans.

    You just found out about Dickie??? (1.00 / 1) (#20)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Dec 06, 2007 at 01:57:44 PM EST
    Kinda slow.....

    Earth is 6000 years old? (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by Edger on Thu Dec 06, 2007 at 04:58:26 PM EST
    National Geographic News
    December 3, 2007
    "Dinosaur Mummy" Found; Has Intact Skin, Tissue
    Scientists today announced the discovery of an extraordinarily preserved "dinosaur mummy" with much of its tissues and bones still encased in an uncollapsed envelope of skin.

    Preliminary studies of the 67-million-year-old hadrosaur, named Dakota, are already altering theories of what the ancient creatures' skin looked like and how quickly they moved, project researchers say. (See pictures of the mummy dino and its preserved skin.)

    Further investigations may reveal detailed information about soft tissues, which could help unlock secrets about the evolution of dinosaurs and their descendents, the scientists added.

    For now, the team continues to examine the rare specimen, which included preserved tendons and ligaments, and to prepare scientific articles on the find for publication.

    "This specimen exceeds the jackpot," said excavation leader Phillip Manning, a paleontologist at Britain's University of Manchester and a National Geographic Expeditions Council grantee.

    Most dinosaurs are known only from their bones, which are seldom found joined together as they would be in real life.

    But "we're looking at a three-dimensional skin envelope," Manning said. "In many places it's complete and intact-around the tail, arms, and legs and part of the body."

    5 minute video here

    Fascinating... (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by desertswine on Thu Dec 06, 2007 at 05:24:45 PM EST
    It's pretty cool isn't it? (none / 0) (#36)
    by Edger on Thu Dec 06, 2007 at 05:33:37 PM EST
    When I was a kid I wanted to do that kind of work when I grew up, but somehow with all the twists and turns it just never worked out.

    Beat 'em at their own game..... (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by kdog on Fri Dec 07, 2007 at 08:04:50 AM EST
    Clever kid secretly tapes his interrogation, detective charged with perjury as a result.  link

    Sneakiness like that...the department should sign this kid up, he'd fit right in:)

    wherever there is, and not here.

    Clinton chairwoman claims Obama e-mail mistake (none / 0) (#1)
    by Aaron on Thu Dec 06, 2007 at 05:14:38 AM EST
    According to the Associated Press, the forwarding of this defamatory e-mail, which apparently first appeared on the Daily Kos, was not intended to smear and disseminate misinformation.  If that was the case, then why was it forwarded without comment?

    Clinton Volunteer Quits Over Obama Email

    [Judy Rose, a Clinton coordinator and Democratic Party official in Jones County, Iowa, forwarded it without comment to eight people on Nov. 21. Rose referred requests for comment to one of the recipients, Grace Zimmerman, who serves with her on the Jones County Democratic Central Committee.

    Zimmerman said Wednesday that Rose sent it to the members of the committee to "show people how dirty politics is" and did not agree with the content of the e-mail.

    "Oh heavens no," Zimmerman said in a telephone interview. "She just wanted the people who were concerned with the politics of Jones County to be aware of it."

    Zimmerman said the Clinton campaign never talked to Rose about why she sent it but simply demanded her resignation after another recipient decried the e-mail in a post on the liberal blog Daily Kos.]  

    Clinton chairwoman dismissed over e-mail on Obama

    Read the actual e-mail here.

    Clinton staffer on anti-Obama email chain (UPDATED)

    Zoe Baird and Willie Horton (none / 0) (#2)
    by Jlvngstn on Thu Dec 06, 2007 at 07:03:25 AM EST
    So no the left is giving payback or is Dumond and romney's lawn help really that much different?

    They both are different (none / 0) (#3)
    by ding7777 on Thu Dec 06, 2007 at 07:38:37 AM EST
    The Dumond case is much worse for Huckabee supporters. Dukakis never knew or advocated for Horton's release the way Huckabee personally lobbied the parole board for Dumond's release -and this came after he publiclly announced Dumond's commutation and was met with state-wide objection.

    Romney has a little breathing room since he didn't personally hire the illegals (nor was he responsible for their income tax) they way Zoe was.


    The Huckabee mess is quite different (none / 0) (#6)
    by scribe on Thu Dec 06, 2007 at 10:28:59 AM EST
    and much worse for Huckabee.  I think the following synopsis (from a post over at TPM) says it simplest and best:

    The bottom line is simple. Mike Huckabee championed the release of a specific convicted rapist who, once release, raped and killed a woman in Missouri. The furlough policy advocated by Mike Dukakis led to the furlough of Willie Horton, who raped a woman in Maryland and stabbed her fiancee. But Mike Dukakis had never heard of Willie Horton, whereas Mike Huckabee was well aware of the crimes and dangers posed by Wayne Dumond. Anyone who doesn't see the substantive difference between the two cases just isn't looking.

    It needs be remembered that Huckabee was personally involved in Dumond's case.  Dukakis, OTOH, merely put in place a policy and had nothing personally to do with Willie Horton.  Horton was merely the beneficiary of Dukakis' policy, the policy being implemented by lower-level officials.

    Moreover, if you believe the women who wrote Huckabee, he was personally made aware of both the harm Dumond had done, and of the predictions that he would offend again.  Yet, he went ahead.

    It is fair to say that Dumond's sentence appears to have been grossly disproportionate, if not to the crime, then to what other defendants had received for the same crime.  But, even though that's true, it in no way changes Huckabee's personal involvement.

    Also, and as an aside, I trust that Dumond's post-release behavior - raping and killing in Missouri despite having been previously castrated by vigilantes  - will permanently dissuade sensible people from supporting castration (physical or chemical) as a part of the remedies/punishments for rapists.  And that the display of his pickled scrotum on the Sheriff's desk will similarly give pause to those who think public humiliation a panacea to crime.  

    The hard-core proponents of those species of punishment, I do not categorize as sensible people, BTW.


    Either way (none / 0) (#7)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Dec 06, 2007 at 11:23:06 AM EST
    Horton was merely the beneficiary of Dukakis' policy,

    So if Dukakis had NOT put the policy in place, Horton would not have benefited.

    BTW - Skewer Huckabee all you want. I don't care.

    But understand Dukakis' involvementt.


    Relax, DA (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by scribe on Thu Dec 06, 2007 at 12:25:12 PM EST
    So if Dukakis had NOT put the policy in place, Horton would not have benefited.
    Gersh, PPJ, that's what folks call a logical conclusion.

    Jim has his moments.  It's ok;  he'll be back to normal shortly.


    You were right, scribe. Didn't take long either. (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by Edger on Thu Dec 06, 2007 at 12:38:15 PM EST
    6 Minutes! (5.00 / 0) (#28)
    by scribe on Thu Dec 06, 2007 at 04:03:02 PM EST
    That's what they call "brief periods of lucidity"....

    Hahahahahaha! (5.00 / 0) (#29)
    by Edger on Thu Dec 06, 2007 at 04:09:54 PM EST
    More brief periods would be good. Many more! With very brief intervals between. But we don't want to be unrealistic I suppose.

    One step at a time. In the meantime, (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by scribe on Thu Dec 06, 2007 at 04:28:17 PM EST
    read this article:  The CIA destroyed videotapes of its torturing terror suspects while being asked for documents, things and information to which those tapes would have been responsive, and then lied about it to
    the 9/11 commission
    the government attorneys and judge in the Moussaoui case

    Sigh... (5.00 / 0) (#31)
    by Edger on Thu Dec 06, 2007 at 04:32:42 PM EST
    destroyed in part because officers were concerned that tapes documenting controversial interrogation methods could expose agency officials to greater risk of legal jeopardy, several officials said. The C.I.A. said today that the decision to destroy the tapes had been made "within the C.I.A. itself,"

    And who is that needs to file charges?

    DoJ? Mukasey's... sorry, I mean Bush's... DoJ?


    Were these tapes (none / 0) (#32)
    by Edger on Thu Dec 06, 2007 at 04:44:24 PM EST
    18 minute tapes?

    I'd suspect not - (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by scribe on Thu Dec 06, 2007 at 05:10:03 PM EST
    more length so the boys back in DC could watch and emit at length and leisure.

    scribe (1.00 / 1) (#39)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Dec 06, 2007 at 07:36:59 PM EST
    You have flopped your chops about a variety of issues. I have basically ignored them because your positions are normally so irrational they aren't worth commenting on.

    So please keep acting like the applause of Edger and  DA is actually meaningful.

    The fact is you made a mistake in logic. I called you on it and you can't stand the criticism.

    In the meantime, I wonder why I keep thinking of that song that goes....

    "... bring in the clowns.."


    Hahahahahaha. (5.00 / 0) (#42)
    by Edger on Thu Dec 06, 2007 at 07:53:47 PM EST
    Still hoping against hope, are you? Think you'll ever find one? Ever found one before?

    Now I know why (1.00 / 0) (#46)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Dec 06, 2007 at 09:12:31 PM EST
    I keep thinking of ...."send in the clowns..."

    heh (none / 0) (#14)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Dec 06, 2007 at 12:31:01 PM EST
    I note you don't deny the accuracy or logic of my comment.

    That you DA?? (1.00 / 1) (#19)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Dec 06, 2007 at 01:55:53 PM EST
    Thought I felt something biting my ankle...

    And as you have demonstrated... twice a day is better than none....



    Dukakis did NOT put the policy in place (none / 0) (#24)
    by ding7777 on Thu Dec 06, 2007 at 02:33:02 PM EST
    The Massachusetts inmate furlough program actually began under Governor Francis Sargent in 1972

    tehe (1.00 / 0) (#38)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Dec 06, 2007 at 07:32:02 PM EST
    So Dukakis failure to eliminate this terribly flawed program was the problem.

    tehe hehe etc etc (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by jondee on Fri Dec 07, 2007 at 04:16:53 PM EST
    The ability to laugh off ones glaring ignorance: what being a member of the Rethug base is all about.

    As Curious George says; Heh Heh.


    Health insurance, reform desperately needed (none / 0) (#4)
    by Aaron on Thu Dec 06, 2007 at 07:59:52 AM EST
    O C Doctors Stop Accepting Health Insurance

    [If it doesn't address the central problem of insurers denying claims and care, then doctors will simply stop accepting insurance and demand payment in cash, as this Irvine clinic has already done. ]

    Look for this trend to spread across the country.  Most doctors offices and clinics have between two and six employees who spend the majority of their time dealing with insurance companies, paperwork and their bureaucracies. I know that hospitals around the country are headed in the same direction, and I have knowledge of one in particular Broward General Medical Center, a public hospital in Broward County Florida, one of the best trauma centers in the country, which has constructed an entire new wing that is specifically reserved for cash customers only. I'm told by reliable sources within the hospital that no insurance whatsoever is accepted as payment for patients in this huge new wing.  I can only assume that they have chosen this route in hopes of offsetting the cost of all the uninsured patients they treat in Broward County.  But that is only charitable supposition.
    (In the interests of full disclosure, I will say that I was once indebted to Broward General for a sum in excess of $1.7 million.)  

      Medicare is a prime example of what were headed for, since the vast majority of private physicians, or at least quality private physicians, don't except Medicare. And why should they, when private physicians have the option of cherry picking patients who have premium health insurance or pay cash.  Why would any doctor want to treat 40 or 50 patients a day, when they can make the same money treating 15 to 25 a day. As a result many private physicians and their employees look upon Medicare patients with disdain.

      People on Medicare are relegated to clinics and doctors who largely constitute the bottom of the barrel in the health-care spectrum.  Many doctors would actually prefer to provide their services pro bono, rather then deal with Medicare, since they take so long to pay and are such a hassle to deal with, apparently.  Just ask Ron Paul, he was refusing to take Medicare and Medicaid long before it was fashionable, opting to treat his patients free of charge, or set up a payment schedule. Though I believe in his case his refusal was on ethical grounds.

    And Clinton wants to mandate/force Americans to pay these insurance companies, who will surely relegate their clients (they don't call them patients, because it makes it easier to screw them using this designation) to the lowest-cost health-care providers i.e. the worst, lowest level of care, or they won't be able to find health care at all, which has become commonplace for people on Medicare who live in locations where there are few choices, like rural areas, or urban inner-city areas, as more and more doctors refuse Medicare.

    None of the presidential candidates will come out and talk about what really needs to be done to fix healthcare in this country.  If it were up to me, I would grab the insurance companies by the throat, Medicare and Medicaid included, and throttle them into submission.  Wrap the yoke of regulation around their necks and squeeze the money out of them, until the two-bit-shysters and profiteers begin dying off in droves.  Mandate coverage for every American, and put the health insurers back in their place, a position where profits are only marginal, which will squeeze the criminally predatory unethical element out of the business.  

    Aaron... are you for real?? (none / 0) (#10)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Dec 06, 2007 at 12:18:11 PM EST
    People on Medicare are relegated to clinics and doctors who largely constitute the bottom of the barrel in the health-care spectrum

    That is pure nonsense and I challenge you to show some information proving that.

    Personally, I do not know a single doctor/hospital that refuses Medicare. And I have never seen any claims that Medicare patients are at the "bottom of the barrel."

    Let me explain how this works.

    Medicare establishes a price structure and then pays 80% of that price, leaving the patient to pay the difference. You can purchase supplemental insurance that will pay the difference. But understand it is supplemental, not secondary. If Medicare doesn't pay, it won't pay, and if the Doctor bills more than Medicare approves, the supplemental won't pay the difference. You can purchase secondary insurance to pay for what Medicare won't pay.

    Private insurance establishes a price structure and then pays based on that structure. Much like medicare except the deductible is different with different plans. PPO's and HMO's do much the same.

    If a doctor/hospital opts OUT of Medicare/Medicaid, then they are OUT. They can't pick and choose patients. Plus, if they are charging more than Medicare/Medicaid approves you can bet money that private insurance/PPO's, etc., also will not pay the difference. That's why the company gives you a list of doctors/organizations that you can use, and why illness/accidents while traveling causes problems. Your CA HMO may not be in MO. Most have emergency options, but check your policy.

    Are there Doctors and private clinics that don't do insurance? Sure But I would guess that are few and far between. And if you go back and read the article:

    This fall, Women's Medical Group of Irvine dropped roughly 20 preferred provider organizations after more and more staff time went to insurance paperwork rather than patients

    That doesn't say ALL. Just those who they are having problems with.

    Of course the first time an ex-patient suffers death and/or pain and/or discomfort having to wait for their Medical Records to be sent to the current care giver from the group which will no longer provide care... well...

    Is there an attorney in the house??

    And finally...

    there would be no profit  for healthcare middlemen.

    I guess that will also apply to all distributors?? Say, trucking companies?? Pipeline companies??

    BTW - I agree that we need NHC, and I agree that the provider bill the Feds directly. But if you think PPO's are difficult, wait until the Feds start become involved.


    A quote (none / 0) (#9)
    by Edger on Thu Dec 06, 2007 at 12:04:30 PM EST
    that I found on an old archive site: Adequacy - News for Grown-ups, but it was rather prophetic, and goes a long way towards explaining much of the past 6 years, I think...
    Of course the World Trade Center bombings are a uniquely tragic event, and it is vital that we never lose sight of the human tragedy involved. However, we must also consider if this is not also a lesson to us all; a lesson that my political views are correct. Although what is done can never be undone, the fact remains that if the world were organised according to my political views, this tragedy would never have happened.

    Many people will use this terrible tragedy as an excuse to put through a political agenda other than my own. This tawdry abuse of human suffering for political gain sickens me to the core of my being. Those people who have different political views from me ought to be ashamed of themselves for thinking of cheap partisan point-scoring at a time like this. In any case, what this tragedy really shows us is that, so far from putting into practice political views other than my own, it is precisely my political agenda which ought to be advanced.

    Not only are my political views vindicated by this terrible tragedy, but also the status of my profession. Furthermore, it is only in the context of a national and international tragedy like this that we are reminded of the very special status of my hobby, and its particular claim to legislative protection. My religious and spiritual views also have much to teach us about the appropriate reaction to these truly terrible events.

    Countries which I like seem to never suffer such tragedies, while countries which, for one reason or another, I dislike, suffer them all the time. The one common factor which seems to explain this has to do with my political views, and it suggests that my political views should be implemented as a matter of urgency, even though they are, as a matter of fact, not implemented in the countries which I like.

    Of course the World Trade Center attacks are a uniquely tragic event, and it is vital that we never lose sight of the human tragedy involved. But we must also not lose sight of the fact that I am right on every significant moral and political issue, and everybody ought to agree with me. Please, I ask you as fellow human beings, vote for the political party which I support, and ask your legislators to support policies endorsed by me, as a matter of urgency.

    It would be a fitting memorial.

    Whom must we never forget?
        Me     20%
        Me     12%
        Me     19%
        Me     30%
        Me     18%

    News for grown ups?? (1.00 / 1) (#13)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Dec 06, 2007 at 12:28:10 PM EST
    Written by a high school sophomore.

    Not only are my political views vindicated by this terrible tragedy,

    The vast, vast, vast majority of the people in this country held no political views that were vindicated by 9/11.

    The thrust of the article is that evil doesn't exist, and that when it shows its face we must just remember that radicals who kill thousands, blow themselves up to kill others, hang homosexuals, hang women who have been raped, etc, etc....

    Well, they aren't really evil... it was just all those little Eichmans had made them sooooo angry...and if will just neogitate with them, all will be okay...

    I ask you again. What will you be willing to give up? Freedom of speech?

    "They insulted the prophet!!!"

    Freedom of religion?

    Women's rights???

    What Edger? What doesn't matter to you??


    Heh! (4.00 / 0) (#15)
    by Edger on Thu Dec 06, 2007 at 12:36:56 PM EST
    You bit.

    You never heard the whizzy sound as it flew past your either.

    Did you?


    I appreciate the opportunity (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Dec 06, 2007 at 02:01:42 PM EST
    to comment on and display your base convictions.

    Will you give me another? Can we talk about Freedom of speech??

    First of all, (none / 0) (#67)
    by Edger on Thu Jan 25, 2007 at 03:18:25 PM EST

    Do we offer them respect? Absolutely not. We do our best to marginalize and get rid of them.

    Freedom of speech? (4.00 / 0) (#22)
    by Edger on Thu Dec 06, 2007 at 02:10:31 PM EST
    Please... repeat it all you want.


    You didn't hear it fly past this time either, did you?


    What I enjoy (1.00 / 1) (#40)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Dec 06, 2007 at 07:43:05 PM EST
    is using your own words to demonstrate to the world that you are not a liberal.

    And you have made it sooooooo easy.

    Let's explore your position regarding debate a little further.

    http://www.talkleft.com/story/2007/1/25/25427/2495For the record (none / 0) (#60)
    by Edger on Thu Jan 25, 2007 at 02:17:12 PM EST ......

    Anyone who wants me or others to be constrained from saying things that insult so that they will NOT feel constrained from doing things that kill, is trying to draw equivalence where there is none, and deserves absolutely no respect, civility, or any kind of tolerence whatever.

    You see, you repeat yourself. Anyone who you disagree with must not be allowed to talk.

    Would you consider that a progressive position??

    Or is it that you are the sole owner of "right and wrong?"

    Funny. That's the same thing the Far Right says.


    Thank you. (5.00 / 0) (#41)
    by Edger on Thu Dec 06, 2007 at 07:47:41 PM EST
    Please repeat that quote as often as you can.

    You're not hearing any of them whiz past your head yet?


    I love to (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Dec 06, 2007 at 09:09:47 PM EST
    Here we have your intellectual depth on display for all to see.

    But...but...but... (none / 0) (#32)
    by Edger on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 07:56:45 PM CST
    I do my best to condemn you and Bush and Cheney and all the neocons and their murderous foreign policies for the past 50 odd years that caused 9/11 every day here, ppj.
    Did I miss a day?

    Oh I forgot about that one (none / 0) (#47)
    by Edger on Thu Dec 06, 2007 at 09:24:38 PM EST

    Add it to the list of things to repeat as often as you can.

    Repeat them to yourself even more often.


    What good is yer freedom (none / 0) (#56)
    by jondee on Fri Dec 07, 2007 at 04:29:11 PM EST
    when half your base cant find the M.E on map and the other half thinks the whole issue is irrelevant because "He's coming back"?

    You guys've given it up already.


    Are you becoming a FDL poster ? (none / 0) (#25)
    by msobel on Thu Dec 06, 2007 at 02:33:39 PM EST
    Did I miss an announcement that you are going to be a member of FireDogLake like EmptyWheel and Tbogg or is just a sometimes thing ?

    Assuming BTD is in hiatus, (none / 0) (#27)
    by oculus on Thu Dec 06, 2007 at 03:15:14 PM EST
    I anticipate a much more focused work day for a couple weeks.  

    It's not getting any smarter out there, obviously (none / 0) (#37)
    by Edger on Thu Dec 06, 2007 at 06:59:12 PM EST
    CBS Today December 6,2007 - via truthout
    $1 Billion In Military Equipment Missing In Iraq
    Washington - Tractor trailers, tank recovery vehicles, crates of machine guns and rocket propelled grenades are just a sampling of more than $1 billion in unaccounted for military equipment and services provided to the Iraqi security forces, according to a new report issued today by the Pentagon Inspector General and obtained exclusively by the CBS News investigative unit. Auditors for the Inspector General reviewed equipment contracts totaling $643 million but could only find an audit trail for $83 million.

    The report details a massive failure in government procurement revealing little accountability for the billions of dollars spent purchasing military hardware for the Iraqi security forces. For example, according to the report, the military could not account for 12,712 out of 13,508 weapons, including pistols, assault rifles, rocket propelled grenade launchers and machine guns.

    This administration is almost as smart as the 24 percenters who still support them.

    A Few Billion Here (5.00 / 0) (#43)
    by squeaky on Thu Dec 06, 2007 at 08:48:34 PM EST
    And a few billions there all lost in Iraq are not much for America. It's only a few dollars per 301,139,947 Americans.

    I have this vision (5.00 / 0) (#44)
    by Edger on Thu Dec 06, 2007 at 09:02:56 PM EST
    of thousands of Corporal Klingers in Iraq selling all this equipment and stuffing wads of cash into caskets to get it home...

    How dishonest can Bush be, (none / 0) (#49)
    by Edger on Fri Dec 07, 2007 at 08:10:56 AM EST
    and still have any supporters left?

    This dishonest.

    Report: Israeli Defense Officials Knew At Least a Month Ago About NIE Findings, Weeks Before Bush Claims He Was Informed
    Mark Karlin, Editor and Publisher, BuzzFlash, December 6, 2007

    According to the authoritative Israeli newspaper, Haaretz, "Israel has known about the report for more than a month. The first information on it was passed on to Defense Minister Ehud Barak, and to Shaul Mofaz, who is the minister responsible for the strategic dialog with the Americans. The issue was also discussed at the Annapolis summit by Barak and U.S. Secretary of Defense Robert Gates, and it seems also between Bush and Prime Minister Ehud Olmert."

    To say the least, this would put Bush in the unexplainable position of claiming he just found out about the NIE, while his administration had told the Israelis weeks ago that the Iranian nuclear bomb program was stopped in 2003. In short, Bush is basically wanting us to believe that he was the last to know about this "bombshell" intelligence finding.

    Furthermore, the one mainstream media company that regularly seeks out the story behind the story (McClatchy Newspapers), reported this story on Nov. 4: "Experts: No firm evidence of Iranian nuclear weapons."

    Yet, Bush would have us believe a diligent newspaper reporter knew about the NIE findings before he did.

    This is just one in a long series of lies and deceptions that the Bush Administration has inflicted on the American people.

    Focus on this: (1.00 / 1) (#50)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Dec 07, 2007 at 10:28:49 AM EST
    Instead of focusing on that, read this:

    The NIE's final sentence: "We assess with high confidence that Iran has the scientific, technical and industrial capacity eventually to produce nuclear weapons if it decides to do so," only emphasizes that US intelligence agencies view Iran's nuclear program as a continuous and increasing threat rather than a suspended and diminishing one.



    "Increasing" how? (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by jondee on Sat Dec 08, 2007 at 01:47:56 PM EST
    Please to explain; in detail, if you're capable, which I doubt.

    Jim hiding under the bed (none / 0) (#62)
    by jondee on Sun Dec 09, 2007 at 01:00:32 PM EST
    after listening to Michael Savage is probobly the strongest confirmation of "the increasing threat" that we can expect, Im afraid.

    Heh! No sh*t sherlock. (none / 0) (#51)
    by Edger on Fri Dec 07, 2007 at 10:54:00 AM EST
    So does the rest of the world.

    Use your effing head for a change. You won't look like an idiot.


    Don't wet yourself, huh? (none / 0) (#52)
    by Edger on Fri Dec 07, 2007 at 10:56:40 AM EST
    I gotts sdmit that (1.00 / 1) (#57)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Dec 07, 2007 at 04:34:55 PM EST
    I can't even begin to figure out what you are trying to say..  But then again, you don't know either so I shouldn't be concerned.

    As for your renowned expertise in foreign policy, terrorists, etc., we still have this:

    Posted by edger at December 4, 2005 08:12 AM

    (I had written)Insurgents don't use car bombs to kill civilians or give booby trapped dolls to children. That is terrorist work, edgey

    (Edger replied) That is not "terrorist work" in the way you try to twist it to mean, at all. It is the work of the Iraqi people - the very people BushCo thought would throw flowers - fighting to kick the US out of Iraq":

    I think this strategy is now known as:

    "Kill your neighbors to attack the US."


    Sombody tell Oberman (none / 0) (#55)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Dec 07, 2007 at 04:25:43 PM EST
    that his BDS will be out of style in about a year..

    I guess he is saving enough money to carry him through the lean times...


    Heck ... I don't watch him (1.00 / 1) (#59)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Dec 07, 2007 at 09:42:21 PM EST
    why should I write him???


    Now, get your dentures off my ankle. I need to pour myself another Stoly