Democrats Nevada Debate: Open Thread

The Democrats' debate begins in 15 minutes. Big Tent Democrat discussed what you can expect here. He'll also be around to live-blog some of it.

I won't get to see it since I'm off to discuss Judith Regan's lawsuit against News Corp on Dan Abrams'MSNBC Wayne Barrett of the Village Voice will also be on.

I've tivo'd the debate and will add my thoughts after I've had a chance to watch it.

In the meantime, here's a place for readers to discuss it as it's airing.

Updates below:

Update [2007-11-15 19:59:50 by Big Tent Democrat]: The Lou Dobbs "pregame" was so stupid, so idiotic, so phony, so pointless that it could possibly have been the worst segment I have ever seen on television.

Update [2007-11-15 20:1:17 by Big Tent Democrat]: Wolf Blitzer. Ugh. But yes, there is nothing as bad as Russert. Nothing.

Update [2007-11-15 20:2:28 by Big Tent Democrat]: Cheering Introductions? Horrible. Just horrible. Phony on mike hellos from Wolf to the candidates? What is this?

Update [2007-11-15 20:4:5 by Big Tent Democrat]: We're off to a terrible start, reminding me why loathe these things.

Update [2007-11-15 20:5:7 by Big Tent Democrat]: Color commentary? Is this an SNL skit?

Update [2007-11-15 20:6:58 by Big Tent Democrat]: I am thisclose to turning this off, before a question has even bee asked.

Update [2007-11-15 20:8:38 by Big Tent Democrat]: MRS. Dan Senor asking questions in this debate. Just great.

Campbell Brown - the Politics of Parsing. Hillary has a TERRIBLE one liner - pantsuits of asbestos? Hillary ignores the question, goes into stump speech. Blah question, blah answer. I am close to turniogn this off folks.

Blitzer followup, Obama, what do you think of Hillary? I am now turning this off.

Not really but I WANT to. Hillary responds with some universal health care flippery from Obama.

The GOP is tough, I am tougher.

Obama says I am too for universal health care.

Zzzzz. This could possibly be the worst debate I have ever seen.

So Hillary decides to fire back. Whoopdeedoo.

"Fireworks!" Snooooe button debate.

CNN thinks they have a winner.

Update [2007-11-15 20:17:11 by Big Tent Democrat]: Edwards, nobody's perfect, no crap. Now Edwards dissembles on "combat troops" on Iraq.

Edwards decides to echo the GOP on Social Security. I assume Hillary will blast him on Social Security.

I think this debate is TERRIBLE for Obama and Edwards.

Update [2007-11-15 20:19:2 by Big Tent Democrat]: Hillary calls Edwards out for running the GOP playbook and she is absolutely right. Edwards is disgraceful imo.

Update [2007-11-15 20:23:47 by Big Tent Democrat]: Blitzer continues the foodfight motif.
Dodd decided that attacking Hillary is not for him. Good for Dodd. I may have to reendorse him.

Update [2007-11-15 20:26:12 by Big Tent Democrat]: Richardson hits a home run.

The Politics of Hillary Hate has run its course. Will Edwards get the message? No, he hits Hillary again. Edwards is done tonight.

Update [2007-11-15 20:29:39 by Big Tent Democrat]: Obama gives a terrific answer on the drivers license issue.

Update [2007-11-15 20:36:10 by Big Tent Democrat]: TYhe differeces between Clinton and Obama on the issues, their exchanges were I think perfectly acceptable political debate arguments.

Only ONE candidate engaged in character attacks - John Edwards. John Edwards is playing right out of the GOP playbook. His performance has been disgraceful. He is at the bottom of my list right now.

Update [2007-11-15 20:44:59 by Big Tent Democrat]: I give the night to Joe Biden for demonstrating his utter disgust with this debate.

Update [2007-11-15 20:46:46 by Big Tent Democrat]: After 45 minutes of itter BS, Wolf Blitzer thinks he can now discuss substantive issues. It is too late. The debate has been ruined. No one will listen now.

CNN has covered itself with shame.

I am not watching anymore.

Update (TL): I'm back. Just in time to hear Bill Richardson bash the border fence and lash out at immigrant haters and the audience cheered. The next thing I heard was Obama get booed, big time. Of course, some people will probably say he was being cheered - but it seemed to me they were booing him for accusing Hillary of saying something out of the Romney-Republican playbook. I think that's why Obama said "No, No, No, No" because he knew he was being booed. The CNN cameras panned to a woman clapping but the audio was clear to me.

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  • Display: Sort:
    Bring the press pool to us? (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by andgarden on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 07:02:12 PM EST
    We're about one gameshow move away from me turning this off.

    Zactly (none / 0) (#3)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 07:03:06 PM EST
    My gawd.

    They're debating FISA on C-SPAN (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by andgarden on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 07:04:45 PM EST
    Heh (none / 0) (#5)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 07:05:59 PM EST
    Well, I have to do this.

    Well, Steny Hoyer was just speaking (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by andgarden on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 07:07:04 PM EST
    So this is still a little better than that.

    Heh (none / 0) (#7)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 07:07:37 PM EST
    Why didn't (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by tnthorpe on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 07:07:56 PM EST
    they just have the candidates walk a runway like fashion models? This is soooo bad.

    This is awful and it hasn't even started (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by Maryb2004 on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 07:09:41 PM EST
    But I'm waiting to see if Obama calls Wolfie a racist to his face when they get to the immigration question(s).  

    Speaking for me (none / 0) (#1)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 06:51:36 PM EST
    I will be watching Jeralyn discuss the Regan lawsuit at 9:15.

    Before that, I will be watching the debate.

    Campbell Brown?????!!!!!! (none / 0) (#9)
    by andgarden on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 07:08:43 PM EST

    Substance-free question from her (none / 0) (#10)
    by andgarden on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 07:09:21 PM EST
    Sorry BTD, you were wrong. (none / 0) (#12)
    by andgarden on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 07:11:09 PM EST
    This debate is starting off worse than the last one.

    Motion to recommit on FISA (none / 0) (#13)
    by andgarden on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 07:12:20 PM EST

    This is a dumb debate (none / 0) (#14)
    by Maryb2004 on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 07:16:26 PM EST

    Edwards is blowing up (none / 0) (#15)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 07:21:30 PM EST
    He is self destructing.

    Edwards (none / 0) (#17)
    by LizDexic on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 07:29:17 PM EST
    Totally disagree.

    I thought Edwards was great! He was pleading his case like the excellent litigator that he is.


    Well (none / 0) (#18)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 07:30:50 PM EST
    we disagree.

    He has utterly lost this debate imo.

    Horrible performance.


    Edwards, Richardson, Dodd all good... (none / 0) (#37)
    by LizDexic on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 07:59:31 PM EST
    Edwards SO DID NOT do "horribly".
    He correctly pointed out Hillary's saying opposite things AT THE SAME TIME...not changing one's mind..
    What was wrong with that??
    It was TRUE.
    He is eloquent, a populist and the one who the Republicans fear most.
    (Dodd and Richardson were also good).

    Campbell Brown asks about immigration (none / 0) (#16)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 07:27:27 PM EST
    I did not understand her question and Obama's answer is sort of not clear to me either.

    Is obama waffling? (none / 0) (#19)
    by patintexas on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 07:31:19 PM EST
    Oh of course not, only Senator Clinton is accused of that, everyone else has a pass!

    Joe Bidden (none / 0) (#20)
    by patintexas on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 07:34:16 PM EST
    He is much brighter and much more articulate than the other male candidates. Why isn't he more popular?

    Obama gave a terrible answer (none / 0) (#21)
    by Maryb2004 on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 07:34:44 PM EST
    on drivers licenses.  How he could not have been prepared for a brief answer on that is beyond me. He looked like a waffler.

    the SECOND answer you mean (none / 0) (#24)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 07:36:59 PM EST
    The first one terrific.

    His first answer was OK (none / 0) (#27)
    by Maryb2004 on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 07:40:32 PM EST
    mostly because he talked about all the problems with enforcing immigration laws - not about drivers licenses.  But I wouldn't call it a moment. Even without the second part.  It was too rambling. He needed a sound bite.  Sorry -but that's politics in America.  

    But more importantly I barely remember what he said in the first part because he was so bad in the second half.  Why on earth he didn't just answer "yes" and let it go is beyond me.  


    You are right (none / 0) (#30)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 07:42:45 PM EST
    yeah (none / 0) (#55)
    by Jgarza on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 10:59:22 PM EST
    he should have pulled a Biden and stopped himself when he heard everyone laugh.  I'm ranking that as the highlight of the debate BTW.  I loved when Biden was in the middle of answering a question and Wolf stepped in and Biden said "your right" and stopped.

    Great answer by (none / 0) (#22)
    by tnthorpe on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 07:35:02 PM EST
    Kucinich that takes it to the stupid question Blitzer posed

    Obama Waffler (none / 0) (#23)
    by patintexas on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 07:36:36 PM EST
    I was kidding about asking is he was waffling! Of course he.  

    Dodd is great (none / 0) (#25)
    by LizDexic on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 07:37:05 PM EST
    AND he succeeded on denying retroactive immunity for the telecom companies...

    He has been excellent tonight (none / 0) (#26)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 07:38:05 PM EST
    First rate.

    Since when (none / 0) (#28)
    by Maryb2004 on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 07:41:14 PM EST
    does the president of the united states set the salary level for teachers in America?  This is the dumbest debate.

    you could have a federal merit pay program (none / 0) (#29)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 07:42:11 PM EST
    But it would be idiotic.

    This is truly the worst debate I have ever seen.


    Biden, Dodd and Richardson (none / 0) (#31)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 07:43:42 PM EST
    winning easily.

    Does it matter? No.

    Big loser - John Edwards.

    Amazing that now that they (none / 0) (#32)
    by Maryb2004 on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 07:46:49 PM EST
    got to a question that really matters - they've gone to the second tier candidates.

    Biden gave a good answer, but you're right, it doesn't matter.


    Blitzer keeps (none / 0) (#33)
    by tnthorpe on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 07:49:41 PM EST
    lobbing up phony dilemmas

    national security or human rights

    why is he allowed on stage?

    asdf (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by andgarden on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 07:52:54 PM EST
    It's 8:37 here in Washington, and HAPPENING NOW!!! I'm going to clear your salad plates and go to the bathroom. Stay tuned for an exclusive steak béarnaise, and, later, we'll check in with the butler to find out what's going on for dessert. You're in MY DINING ROOM! Don't go away.

    To see ALL the candidates debate (none / 0) (#34)
    by Ben Masel on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 07:51:43 PM EST
    watch here.

    Morphing questions (none / 0) (#36)
    by patintexas on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 07:53:50 PM EST
    Somehow the question about Musharuf and his martial law turned into "what is most important human rights or national security?" I don't think the american people want tricky hokey questions. They want to discuss issues. this debate is not really doing that.

    on NAFTA and CAFTA (none / 0) (#38)
    by LizDexic on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 08:02:24 PM EST
    ...at least EDWARDs is speaking up against NAFTA AND CAFTA...can't picture Hillary OR Obama doing that...OK??

    And Kucinich's "diss" of calling him a 'trial lawyer' was really no diss since he represented consumers in class action suits against large corporations.

    Campbell Brown, Mrs. Dan Senor (none / 0) (#39)
    by LizDexic on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 08:04:25 PM EST
    Why do they have the wife of someone from the Bush administration and who works for the Romney campaign questioning Democrats??
    And John Roberts is a right wing tool!

    Why do they have (none / 0) (#57)
    by Jgarza on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 11:02:55 PM EST
    two Clinton supporters giving "analysis" after the debate?

    Here's my update: (none / 0) (#40)
    by andgarden on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 08:13:31 PM EST
    rancor from House Democrats watching the debate in the cloakroom interrupted Dave Obey speaking on the HHS veto override.

    Hillary did a great job (none / 0) (#41)
    by Maryb2004 on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 08:18:49 PM EST
    on the gender question.  Edwards made a huge mistake going after her on the next question.  Of course he was set up to do it - but he shouldn't have fallen for it.

    Jeralyn looks fabulous! (none / 0) (#42)
    by poe on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 08:22:44 PM EST
    She's doing a great job...nice diversion from the debate.

    Thank You! (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 09:01:44 PM EST
    You made my night.

    Winners and Losers? (none / 0) (#43)
    by Alinford on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 08:27:06 PM EST
    Hilary and Biden did well.
    Obama and Edwards were horrible.

    Edwards "going after" Hillary (none / 0) (#44)
    by LizDexic on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 08:49:33 PM EST
    I like where Edwards points out that Hillary voted for Kyle-Lieberman and she accuses him of mudslinging.

    I don't (none / 0) (#54)
    by Jgarza on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 10:54:15 PM EST
    think his criticisms are out of line, but i think he criticized her too  much and at bad times.  Especially when she responded to the question about her playing in the boys club.  She had her inspirational to women moment, then they asked if anybody wanted to respond. The proper thing was to let her have her moment and John Edwards took the bait.  It was in poor taste.

    Did anyone else hear Obama get booed? (none / 0) (#45)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 08:58:08 PM EST
    For saying Hillary was taking something from the Romney playbook?

    I heard everyone (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by Jgarza on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 10:43:56 PM EST
    who criticized her get boo'd.  His people cheered louder when they heard. I think the next scandal will be that she (her campaign) instructed her supporters to do it.  Either that or they are rude, i heard someone heckle him, at the begening.  She has a cult of personality, they do crazy things like that.

    They were chanting "Lou" (none / 0) (#53)
    by joejoejoe on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 10:47:59 PM EST
    Obama's nickname is "Lou". The crowd was supporting him.

    Seriously, Obama was definitely booed but the Obama campaign must think it's a good kind of booing because they sent out a video clip of the exchange to the media (per GFR at Tapped).  Booing isn't a big deal. I've seen Derek Jeter booed in Yankee Stadium. It's shows people are paying attention more than anything else and that is a good thing.


    social security (none / 0) (#47)
    by RalphB on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 09:23:25 PM EST
    Wow, either Obama is politically naive or just stupid.  Republicans would shove that "trillion dollar tax increase" theme right up his butt like the sword of Damocles and break it off.

    Sure loser for democrats if he were the nominee.

    Yeah (none / 0) (#56)
    by Jgarza on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 11:01:14 PM EST
    Because backing out of questions and changing answers worked so well for John Kerry, we all know Hillary is way smarter!

    Edwards (none / 0) (#48)
    by diogenes on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 10:04:19 PM EST
    He has no real hope of winning by being a gentleman, folks.  He has to somehow drag Hillary down and then be seen as more plausible than Obama.  It's not a high percentage game-then, neither was LBJ's when he became VP for JFK because that was his best shot.  You do what you have to do.

    Prediction (none / 0) (#49)
    by Jgarza on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 10:24:36 PM EST
    The next scandal will be that Hillary's staff directed her supporters to booo when ever she was criticized.

    Biden did well (none / 0) (#50)
    by Jgarza on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 10:26:18 PM EST
    IMO, i have started to like him, he really got on my nerves.

    opps (none / 0) (#51)
    by Jgarza on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 10:26:53 PM EST
    i forgot the "in the past."

    They all did well (none / 0) (#58)
    by Alien Abductee on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 11:11:56 PM EST
    except for Edwards, who yet again showed off what a complete tin ear he has for politics - the only loser of the night. Even Biden and Richardson came across well and got in some good points. Kucinich got the biggest cheer of the night saying we need to impeach Bush and Cheney NOW. I thought overall the debate was substantive, offered some clear differentiation among the candidates, and stayed positive and issue focused rather than character focused.

    As for Obama and the DL issue, clearly he doesn't see it as his finest hour. There was no mention of it today on his website as an issue, and he had to be forced to own his position on it at the debate. So, not a matter of principle for him, just a cheap opportunity to bash Hillary over her unclear statements in the previous debate. That said, I liked many of his answers tonight and his more combative attitude. Hillary continues to impress me with her political and rhetorical skill. Now if only she were a progressive instead of a center-right leaning corporatist-beholden Establishment hack. :(

    Culinary Workers? (none / 0) (#59)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 12:29:56 AM EST
    I just noticed that Obama thanked the woman questioner who worked as a casino cashier for her work on behalf of the culinary workers. Did he misunderstand or are casino workers in a culinary union?