UCLA Student Tasered in Library Over No ID


UCPD officers shot a student several times with a Taser inside the Powell Library CLICC computer lab late Tuesday night before taking him into custody.

The student hadn't shown his ID.. LA Times article is here.

As the student was screaming, UCPD officers repeatedly told him to stand up and said "stop fighting us." The student did not stand up as the officers requested and they shot him with the Taser at least once more.

"It was the most disgusting and vile act I had ever seen in my life," said David Remesnitsky, a 2006 UCLA alumnus who witnessed the incident.

As John at America Blog says:

Excuse me? He wasn't fighting, he refused to stand up. Just carry him away - that's called civil disobedience. You don't tase people for refusing to stand up.

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    the interesting part is, (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by scribe on Thu Nov 16, 2006 at 12:45:12 PM EST
    it seems the other students were thisclose to going after the cops ... that they were demanding the police give their ID, and the cops threatened them with Tasering for it.  

    The UCLA student paper and the LA Times have more on this abomination.

    In short, like the victim said to the cops, after screaming from the Taser:

    "This is your f'g Patriot Act.  This is your abuse of power.

    Welcome to 'murca.  Keep those video-cellphones handy - the youtube shows more than a couple all recording....

    He was TASERED multiple times (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by Sailor on Thu Nov 16, 2006 at 12:59:30 PM EST
    which is most all the TASER deaths have occurred.

    How they are going to try to justify this one?
    Patrick will manage to.

    IMHO, the students should have kicked the cops' butts and performed a citizens arrest for the felonies the cops committed.

    Whatever (none / 0) (#28)
    by Patrick on Fri Nov 17, 2006 at 11:14:10 AM EST
    Patrick will manage to.

    I don't need to, the courts will do just fine.  Even though no one here will probably ever hear the outcome.  Or care for that matter, because the conviction of some college student won't have the same impact has the opportunity to criticize "The man."

    But from what I've seen looks like a valid use of the taser.  


    Uses (none / 0) (#44)
    by Jen M on Fri Nov 17, 2006 at 01:37:59 PM EST
    Patrick, uses not 'use'

    Jen (none / 0) (#46)
    by Patrick on Fri Nov 17, 2006 at 01:46:01 PM EST
    OK, still seems reasonable to me, taking for granted that the taser falls in line as a lesser force option than hands on physical arrest techniques, as it does in most departments.  

    What also isn't clear is the method of deployment used.  The taser has two options.  There are probes which can be "fired" into someone and the charge delivered that way as a neuro-muscular interruptor or the cartidge can be removed and the taser is then used much like the stun guns of old.  The latter method is a pain compliance use, and based on what I heard, it seems likely it was used in that manner.  So again, based on the limited information available at this point, it seems a legal and proper deployment.  


    I guess (none / 0) (#51)
    by Jen M on Fri Nov 17, 2006 at 02:52:42 PM EST
    It has only been a split generation or two since protesters have been using the go limp technique.

    Cops all over the US know how to deal with it, but I suppose its way too much to ask the UCLAPD to learn something like that in a mere 40 years.


    I didn't (none / 0) (#52)
    by Patrick on Fri Nov 17, 2006 at 03:06:14 PM EST
    realize this was a protest.  I thought it was a kid in a university library at night refusing to show ID, which is required of all patrons.  In fact the university had requested ID checks during these hours as a way to protect the students.  

    It wasnt (none / 0) (#57)
    by Jen M on Fri Nov 17, 2006 at 03:43:27 PM EST
    "a protest" as in registered and formal and planned and all, yeah, it was a kid. But all he did after shouting (and being tasered) was not get up. No call to keep tasering him after that.

    I find this despicable (none / 0) (#64)
    by Kitt on Fri Nov 17, 2006 at 07:45:08 PM EST
    But from what I've seen looks like a valid use of the taser

    That statement surely calls into question your judgement, and more than anything demonstrates the kind of cop you are as well as a man.


    I'm not surprised (none / 0) (#71)
    by Patrick on Sun Nov 19, 2006 at 08:42:40 PM EST
    Let's wait till there's a judicial review of the case and if I'm right, you leave Talkleft never to return.  If you're right, I'll do the same.

    Not hardly or likely (none / 0) (#72)
    by Kitt on Sun Nov 19, 2006 at 09:15:29 PM EST
    I've been a long time, a couple of years and some. I don't know how long you've been here - why leave? You or I can say whatever you want, Patrick. You or I can respond or not.

    You certainly can... (none / 0) (#73)
    by Patrick on Sun Nov 19, 2006 at 10:55:22 PM EST
    express any opinion you want...When you say something like this

    That statement surely calls into question your judgement, and more than anything demonstrates the kind of cop you are as well as a man.

    About me, expect to be called on it.  You're lack of ability to see more than one side to a story calls into question much about you too, however, I endeavor to make my point without attacking you personally.  Personal attacks are a sign of a weak argument, and a weaker character as well as limited intelligence...


    And the same to you, Patrick (none / 0) (#74)
    by Kitt on Mon Nov 20, 2006 at 12:09:11 AM EST
    You're kidding right? Because want you state here is equally how I see you. "Your lack of ability to see more than one side to a story...."

    You're (sic) lack of ability to see more than one side to a story calls into question much about you too, however, I endeavor to make my point without attacking you personally. Personal attacks are a sign of a weak argument, and a weaker character as well as limited intelligence...

    Boy - is that classic coming from you. You've demonstrated here time and time again your overbearing, authoritarian, & rigid thinking especially when it comes to law enforcement.

    And although oblique as hell - this is personal: "Personal attacks are a sign of a weak argument, and a weaker character as well as limited intelligence."

    Good night, Patrick.


    As you have (none / 0) (#75)
    by Patrick on Mon Nov 20, 2006 at 05:49:09 PM EST
    Shown complete contempt for law enforcement time and time again, without taking the time to understand (or at least acknowledging the possibility that) there is more than one side to the story.  What is clear to me is that, with whatever justification, you believe the police acted wrongly, fine, you are certainly not alone.  We can debate that, and I'll simply point out any obvious faults in your logic, if there's enough bandwidth to do that.

    As much as you'd like to believe it, the police do not always act wrongly, and I believe once all is said and done here, their actions will be justified.  I base that on my experience and training not only with the taser, but in situations similar to this as well as my knowledge of use of force laws.  I will say that in either case, there's too little information out there to know for sure.  

    So tell me, Kitt, on what are you basing you judgement?  

    On what basis are you trying (and failing) to demean me as a man and a cop?  

    Maybe on December 22, you'll be a little nicer, but who knows.  

    Now, in all honesty, I'm beginning to get bored with your petty personal attacks.  If you have some evidence to support your position, let's see it.  If not, I stand by my challenge.  If you decline, that's fine too, but know that your opinion of me, good or bad, matters not, I'll consider the source.  


    I dont know (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by peacrevol on Thu Nov 16, 2006 at 01:37:20 PM EST
    I dont know about the policies of the library at Texas A&M, where I went to school, cuz I was never really there...but I dont really think that matters. The kid was in the wrong for not leaving, but as for the tasers, I think cops should look at it as hitting someone in the face. It seems cops are quick to use tasers b/c they think it's 'less than lethal' force, but so is punching someone in the face. Cops cant punch somebody in the face b/c that's police brutality, and using a taser should be the same thing for one main reason. Just as in punching someone in the face, you dont know who you're dealing with. A punch in the face can be lethal if it lands with the right force in the wrong spot. A taser can be lethal if you have someone with cardiovascular problems. If i get in a fight and punch someone in the face and they die, I get perhaps an involuntary manslaughter charge. Police should have the same responsibility for using their tasers. Perhaps then they wouldnt be as quick to use them.

    Proof (4.00 / 1) (#29)
    by Patrick on Fri Nov 17, 2006 at 12:04:30 PM EST
    Proof positive, once again, the only good cop is a dead cop.

    Actually it's proof that you're a moron.  It's also interesting that no one else here has called you on it, with the only comment responding to your post indicating, "Don't despair yet."  Says a lot about the others as well

    Pat (5.00 / 2) (#34)
    by Peaches on Fri Nov 17, 2006 at 12:40:21 PM EST
    Its a moronic statement by a troll and doesn't deserve comment.

    I disagree (none / 0) (#39)
    by Patrick on Fri Nov 17, 2006 at 12:58:14 PM EST
    There are times when it's important to make a statement of values.  While people have a right to freedom of speech, it's just as important for those of us who disagree with a particular idea to use that same freedom to disagree.  If Charlie (Who's sounds strikingly familiar to Charliedontsurf) expresses an idea in a forum such as this, and people don't call him on it, isn't that a tacit or implied approval?  Maybe not always, but given the context, I felt it necessary to take an opposing stance.  

    Perhaps he's doing it to be a troll, but perhaps he really believes that, and if he/she percieves the lack of opposition as support, then we've done him/her a disservice.  


    I agree (none / 0) (#43)
    by Peaches on Fri Nov 17, 2006 at 01:13:22 PM EST
    with you, Pat.

    I made my statement in support of you while also condemning this Charlie (Charliedon'tsurf may have said something sarcastic making fun of cops, I don't think he would have made a comment like this). What I think is unfair is condemning a board for not saying something sooner to call out this comment. We cannot be everywhere at once, and have only so much energy to fight so many fights. This was definately your fight and I think you are one hundred percent in the right to call this Charlie a moron.


    Fair enough (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by Patrick on Fri Nov 17, 2006 at 01:39:20 PM EST
    What I think is unfair is condemning a board for not saying something sooner to call out this comment

    You are right, I hadn't considered the time frame when I made my initial comment. Having been gone for the past week at a school and not checking in as often as I usually do, I assumed the comment had been on the board for some time, and was wrong.  After reading some of the responses, I am sorry for offending the many people who didn't deserve it.  


    Sure.... (none / 0) (#54)
    by Edger on Fri Nov 17, 2006 at 03:17:46 PM EST
    Of course. Yes. They're all scum. Arrogant and cruel jackbooted thugs, every last one of 'em.

    No question about it. No exceptions. Sure.


    charlie (none / 0) (#58)
    by kdog on Fri Nov 17, 2006 at 04:24:16 PM EST
    my brother...I have had those same feelings.  Yes, the police are on the opposite side of the line in the fight for true freedom.  They carry out the orders of the real enemy...the lawmakers.

    I've never called one, never will.  I also wish nothing to do with them.  I just dont wish anybody I've never met dead...that's going to far, they really aren't all bad.  Some discreetly refuse to enforce unjust laws, some use common sense and give people breaks, some are active politically in getting the unjust, police-state laws off the books.

    I was as rabid a cop-hater as there is...I'm learning to focus my hatred where it belongs...on lawmakers.  They write the anti-freedom gameplan.  Placing the blame of our police-state at the feet of police is like blaming a private for the war in Iraq.

    I don't hate the police anymore...just got no love for them and try to have nothing to do with them. Now I hate congress instead:)


    Arrrgh. (none / 0) (#33)
    by Edger on Fri Nov 17, 2006 at 12:31:29 PM EST
    It was a moronic statement for him to make, Patrick. About on the same level as calling him a moron rather than just saying his statment was moronic.

    You know?


    No I don't know... (none / 0) (#35)
    by Patrick on Fri Nov 17, 2006 at 12:43:48 PM EST
    Perhaps you could better explain how you feel calling for the death of all law enforcement officers is in any way, shape or form, is even close to being in the same galaxy as calling the person who posted a comment like that a moron.  

    C'mon, Pat. (none / 0) (#37)
    by Edger on Fri Nov 17, 2006 at 12:53:58 PM EST
    It was hyberbole, not a literal desire, I think. Like your statement was. Lighten up.

    arrrrrgh... (none / 0) (#38)
    by Edger on Fri Nov 17, 2006 at 12:55:22 PM EST
    I would (none / 0) (#40)
    by Patrick on Fri Nov 17, 2006 at 01:03:14 PM EST
    certainly hope it was hyperbole, but are you so sure of that?  I'm not.  I've met people who believe that, although I submit most are significantly challenged by reality.  This is an anonymous forum, so I'm not so convinced it's hyperbole and therefore felt the need to respond.  

    Not absolutely sure,,, no... (none / 0) (#42)
    by Edger on Fri Nov 17, 2006 at 01:09:02 PM EST
     I just think it's the most like explanation. And I think you probably meant to take exception to his statement too, not him personally. :-)

    Patrick... (none / 0) (#53)
    by Edger on Fri Nov 17, 2006 at 03:08:34 PM EST
    I was wrong, obviously. And you were right.

    I gave him the benefit of the doubt, but it seems he'd rather tar all cops everywhere with the same vitriolic and hateful brush.

    I hope if he has a confrontation with any cops that they deal with him with whatever they consider appropriate force, and no more, however, as I know from experience most of them will.


    I'm more convinced the other way (none / 0) (#55)
    by Patrick on Fri Nov 17, 2006 at 03:25:16 PM EST
    Now he kinda strikes me as a pathetic coward.  Living his "tough guy" life vicariously through these pages.  There are plenty like him out there, but he's not one of the ones I worry about.  

    Yeah... (none / 0) (#56)
    by Edger on Fri Nov 17, 2006 at 03:40:05 PM EST
    Fair description, I'd say.

    no (none / 0) (#59)
    by kdog on Fri Nov 17, 2006 at 04:26:33 PM EST
    I wouldn't say a coward...just misdirected anger.  I was the same way, I'm trying to change.

    Kdog (none / 0) (#60)
    by Patrick on Fri Nov 17, 2006 at 04:52:08 PM EST
    I recall our exchanges from the early days of TL, and don't ever recall you making similar statements of that extreme.  Yeah, we locked it up quite a bit, but you never advocated the death of a cop, or if you did, didn't stand on that as a basic principle of your beliefs such as this poster has.  I submit it's false bravado, immaturity or cowardice on the part of this person.  I lean towards cowardice.  

    Blanket Statement (none / 0) (#69)
    by kdog on Sun Nov 19, 2006 at 11:36:27 AM EST
    I don't recall making a blanket statement like that either, at least I hope I haven't.

    In the past, I have wished the death of individual police officers.  I regret it now.  I realized that's like blaming the carpenter when my beef is with the design of the architecht.  


    UCLA (1.00 / 1) (#5)
    by HeadScratcher on Thu Nov 16, 2006 at 01:00:50 PM EST
    As an alum I have one question:

    If you need an ID to be there, and he wouldn't show the ID, what would TL suggest? To not enforce the ID policy?

    Do you have any amount of imagination? (5.00 / 2) (#8)
    by Dadler on Thu Nov 16, 2006 at 01:14:35 PM EST
    Why don't you try to come up with an alternative to using a taser.  All by yourself.  Can you seriously not think of one?  Or is a taser REALLY the only possible remedy you can think of?  And what age would you use as the threshold for using this device?  Would you taser a 13 year old kid acting up in class and refusing to do something?

    Americans without an ounce of creative ability in their heads have no excuse.

    How about this: talk.  And talk and talk and talk.  Is this really such an everyday even that we have to put the hammer down to set some kind of example for all those scofflaws desiring the use of public university library resources?  

    I mean, come on, bro, do you REALLY think potentially deadly force is appropriate for failure to leave a library????

    And personally, yes, UCLA is a PUBLIC SCHOOL.  Anyone from the community ought to be able to use its service.  I'm a UC alumni and even I can't get priveleges without paying.  It's B.S..  A public university's library resources should be open to all.  Period.  Is this really a wild idea?  Well what if all the citizens use the service and the students can't?  Build more universities and libraries.  Is that such a wild idea in free, democratic, greatest nation in the world America?


    He was Leaving The Library (none / 0) (#16)
    by Jen M on Thu Nov 16, 2006 at 04:18:45 PM EST
    He was doing what he was told to do.

    He was complying with their orders (if slowly)

    A taser is needed for THAT??


    Maybe (none / 0) (#6)
    by aw on Thu Nov 16, 2006 at 01:09:13 PM EST
    Maybe he just needed a few minutes to finish what he was doing.  He was leaving when the cops showed up.  He was doing what they told him to.  He just didn't jump to it.

    I'd suggest (none / 0) (#7)
    by Deconstructionist on Thu Nov 16, 2006 at 01:10:16 PM EST
     Exhausting all reasonable efforts to get him to leave peacefully and then if he still  refuses, use several officers to restrain him and place him in cuffs and arrest him.

      Tasers should only be used when they are the least dangerous method available  to avoid an immediate risk of someone being harmed. i don't see where the kid was being anything other than extremely annoying. Waiting for other officers to arrive so he could be removed woould not appear to have created any undue risk to anyone beyond being distracted from their studies.


    6 cops and 5 taser shots (none / 0) (#9)
    by scribe on Thu Nov 16, 2006 at 01:16:29 PM EST
    for a guy slow leaving the library.

    You think that's enough?  Maybe they needed more backup?  Or a recharge?

    The classic part is the cops demanding he get up and leave, just having tasered him, threatening to taser again if he doesn't, then carrying through the threat.  You can hear the tone of the voice means the decision to taser has already been made...

    Again, and again.

    A lot of studying got done in that library, thanks to the po-lice.


    Links? (none / 0) (#12)
    by roy on Thu Nov 16, 2006 at 01:32:14 PM EST
    The stories I see only mention two zaps.  Where do you see 5?

    I'd suggest... (none / 0) (#10)
    by kdog on Thu Nov 16, 2006 at 01:20:46 PM EST
    a course of action not involving high voltage.  Police are trained in non-violent conflict resolution...but Tasers are more fun.

    Tasers are more fun. (none / 0) (#18)
    by Edger on Thu Nov 16, 2006 at 07:33:04 PM EST
    Depends on who the target is, I guess. ;-)

    (be patient for about 5 seconds - it's worth it!)


    tasers (1.00 / 2) (#14)
    by HeadScratcher on Thu Nov 16, 2006 at 01:50:41 PM EST
    Down here in South Florida we just had a Sheriff shot and killed while making a routine traffic stop. His gun was still holstered.

    I don't think he should have been tasered either. I find it abhorent. But then again, he brought this upon himself so I'm going to worry more about the problems of the innocents who are wronged daily than this smart ass...

    Well done (none / 0) (#20)
    by Al on Thu Nov 16, 2006 at 11:48:49 PM EST
    Down here in South Florida we just had a Sheriff shot and killed while making a routine traffic stop. His gun was still holstered.

    You have just won the prize for this week's most irrelevant comment.


    As sad as this is - (none / 0) (#21)
    by Kitt on Thu Nov 16, 2006 at 11:58:41 PM EST
    What! does it have to do with this case?

    Just stand up you idiot! (1.00 / 1) (#70)
    by Pancho on Sun Nov 19, 2006 at 11:50:00 AM EST
    Yes, the cops should have just picked him up and carried him out, but why not comply with their request to stand up?

    I wonder (none / 0) (#2)
    by aw on Thu Nov 16, 2006 at 12:46:22 PM EST
    How they are going to try to justify this one?

    A guess (none / 0) (#3)
    by roy on Thu Nov 16, 2006 at 12:56:34 PM EST
    Instead of not getting his ID from his pocket, the police thought he was not getting a gun.

    I don't know about UCLA (none / 0) (#11)
    by Deconstructionist on Thu Nov 16, 2006 at 01:23:33 PM EST
     but every public university with which i am familiar makes many of its resources available to the general public-- but with limits. As I read it, the library is open to the public until late night when it is restricted only to current students. That seems a perfectly reasonable security measure.

      It also seems perfectly reasonable to require IDs to be shown (although I do wonder if that kid wasn't singled out for his middle-eastern appearance -- I'm sure we will hear more about that) and to require people even if they are in fact students to leave if they can't produce an ID, If they then get belligerent and don't heed the request to leave then they should be subject to citations for trespassing and if they disturb the peace or are disorderly for that too.

      With the exception ot Tasering the kid for the non-offense of being a jerk when there appears to have been no reasonable apprehension of risk anyone would be harmed, I have no problem with UCLA's apparent poliices.

    It's not about library cards (none / 0) (#17)
    by Ken C on Thu Nov 16, 2006 at 06:02:37 PM EST
    Come on now, you don't really think that anyone here is philosophically opposed to ID cards?  It isn't exactly the asking-for-library-card part that's important.

    "With the exception ot Tasering the kid for the non-offense of being a jerk when there appears to have been no reasonable apprehension of risk anyone would be harmed..."

    Uh, yes, exactly, that's kind of an exception.


    AI reported 152 taser-related deaths in the US (none / 0) (#15)
    by Andreas on Thu Nov 16, 2006 at 02:23:36 PM EST
    From a WSWS-article published in March 2006:

    The use of taser weapons by US police has been linked to 152 deaths since 2001, according to a report published Tuesday by Amnesty International. The report found that most fatal taser electrocutions involved unarmed subjects who posed no serious threat to cops or civilians at the time of weapon discharge. Many were electrocuted while already in restraints and/or received multiple electroshocks.

    The report points to the systematic misuse of tasers by police and in prisons, documenting their utilization on the mentally ill, children, pregnant women and the elderly. It also highlights the widespread policy of using tasers as a routine compliance tool on subjects who are passively resisting or simply not perceived to be complying with orders. ...

    Tasers are a discreet and easy way for police to terrorize an increasingly non-compliant civilian population. Unlike conventional brutality, tasers often do not leave incriminating marks or physical damage (broken bones, bruising, etc.), and can therefore be applied more discreetly. It is for these reasons, together with the severe physical and psychological anguish produced by electrocution, that the United States military continues to use tasers in the torture of detainees in places like Abu Ghraib and Guantánamo.

    Amnesty International reports 152 taser-related deaths in the US
    Electric shock becomes accepted police procedure

    By Andre Damon, 31 March 2006

    And if you did watch the video (none / 0) (#22)
    by Kitt on Fri Nov 17, 2006 at 12:01:11 AM EST
    and listen to his screams...it is at very least 5 times that he is tasered.

    There is a term that is not used anymore (none / 0) (#24)
    by Domino on Fri Nov 17, 2006 at 02:10:45 AM EST

    Sure it is (none / 0) (#30)
    by kdog on Fri Nov 17, 2006 at 12:09:11 PM EST
    still in use, just not as popular at the moment.  More stories like thai and it will be back in a big way.

    student believed he was being racially profiled (none / 0) (#25)
    by scribe on Fri Nov 17, 2006 at 07:54:46 AM EST
    and will sue.

    This LAT article indicates:

    Attorney Stephen Yagman said he plans to file a federal civil rights lawsuit accusing the UCLA police of "brutal excessive force," as well as false arrest. The lawyer also provided the first public account of the Tuesday night incident at UCLA's Powell Library from the student, Mostafa Tabatabainejad, a 23-year-old senior.

    He said that Tabatabainejad, when asked for his ID after 11 p.m. Tuesday, declined because he thought he was being singled out because of his Middle Eastern appearance. Yagman said Tabatabainejad is of Iranian descent but is a U.S.-born resident of Los Angeles.

    The lawyer said Tabatabainejad eventually decided to leave the library but when an officer refused the student's request to take his hand off him, the student fell limp to the floor, again to avoid participating in what he considered a case of racial profiling. After police started firing the Taser, Tabatabainejad tried to "get the beating, the use of brutal force, to stop by shouting and causing people to watch. Generally, police don't want to do their dirties in front of a lot of witnesses."

    He said Tabatabainejad was hit by the Taser five times and suffered "moderate to severe contusions" on his right side.

    I get the feeling these officers felt, uh, encouraged to use the Taser as a career-enhancer:

    The incident follows the recent announcement that four of the campus police department's nearly 60 full-time sworn officers had won so-called Taser Awards granted by the manufacturer of the device to "law enforcement officers who save a life in the line of duty through extraordinary use of the Taser." The award stemmed from an incident in which officers subdued a patient who allegedly threatened staff at the campus' Neuropsychiatric Hospital with metal scissors.

    Jeff Young, assistant police chief, declined to indicate whether any of the honored officers were among the several involved in Tuesday's incident.

    Use Taser, get award from manufacturer, get recognition and positive strokes from boss.  Kind of like (for those of a certain age) getting green stamps for buying stuff - maybe they figured that, if they use the taser enough, they'll get rewarded, too....  That, or, if they were among those already recognized, they liked the recognition so much they wanted to do it all again.

    from what I saw (none / 0) (#27)
    by Jen M on Fri Nov 17, 2006 at 09:56:03 AM EST
    What the hell was wrong with all those students standing around watching this?

    I thought those onlookers were dangerously close to an 'unfortunate incident of student unrest'.

    They were not happy, and were surging after the police as they dragged off Mr. Tabatabainejad , more than one demanding name and badge numbers, arguing with the officers and holding up cell phones.  They did not look like the were just passively enjoying the sight.

    Don't despair yet.

    Pat.... (none / 0) (#31)
    by kdog on Fri Nov 17, 2006 at 12:15:14 PM EST
    I didn't care for the comment...but news story after news story like this...how are people who value freedom supposed to feel?

    Kdog (none / 0) (#36)
    by Patrick on Fri Nov 17, 2006 at 12:51:38 PM EST
    Well, that's a good question, and I would hope that rather than just being spoon fed opinions, people would look at the given situation and realize that, as with any group of people, there will be those who's behavior discredits the good that the many are doing.  You've said as much yourself on many occassions.  

    That being said, I'm not all that sure that this event even rises to that level.  Certainly the SFPD Officer story does.  But cops doing their job well is not news.  


    Patrick (none / 0) (#41)
    by aw on Fri Nov 17, 2006 at 01:06:47 PM EST
    I posted a comment about something good a cop did over at Stupid Citation of the Week.

    Yes you did (none / 0) (#47)
    by Patrick on Fri Nov 17, 2006 at 01:49:14 PM EST
    but was that story picked up by national or even local news?  My guess is that it was not.  

    Good Cop (none / 0) (#48)
    by Peaches on Fri Nov 17, 2006 at 02:14:12 PM EST
    This wasn't in the national news, but in an interview on Democracy Now with Alice Wlaker today, she has this story about a good cop.

    AMY GOODMAN: I was just going to say I wanted to follow up on one of the stories you told earlier, Alice. And that is, when you were arrested in Washington, D.C., I was there, watched the whole thing go down. You were arrested, Terry Tempest Williams, Maxine Hong Kingston, Nina Utne and many other writers. Well, it was a group of about 24, 25 of you. You write beautifully about it in We Are the Ones We Have Been Waiting For. But can you talk about what happened with the police officer who arrested you?

    ALICE WALKER: Well, the police officer who arrested me really didn't want to do it, and he told me, "Oh, my wife is just going to kill me if I come home and say that I have arrested you." So we started talking and, in fact, when I was let out of the holding cell, he helped me tie up my shoes, because they make you untie your shoes. And while he was helping me tie my shoes, we started talking about his children, and so he wanted to know if I had written any children's books, and I had. And so I was able to send some books to his children.

    It was a very good experience, because I realized that even though sometimes we think of the police as our enemy, they're really our family, and often, especially with African Americans, oftentimes it's the only job that many of the people can get, and so he was doing it very well, I thought.

    Good Cop, Sad Cop (none / 0) (#49)
    by Edger on Fri Nov 17, 2006 at 02:25:58 PM EST
    Good Cop, Sad Cop
    Perps must have done a double take when Deputy Angela Holland popped out of her patrol car. It was the usual white Crown Victoria with "Sheriff" in big green letters on the side, and perps know how hot the hood of a King County Sheriff's patrol car feels. But a 5-foot-6 cop with blue eyes and blond hair pulled back in a ponytail? That was different. So, too, was Holland's manner, as bright and perky as a corporate publicist. Of course, she could go from Deputy Friendly to Deputy Hard-Ass on a dime. She was a cop, after all.
    One night in 2002, she went with several deputies to collar a man in SeaTac. The man was a 6-foot-4 Samoan and had a good 200 pounds on Holland. Samoans are known for their ability to throw down harder than any other humans. This man had recently gotten out of the psych unit at Harborview Medical Center. One of the deputies wanted to use a Taser on the man, who was verbally combative. He was off his meds, out of control. Even his family feared him when he got this way. Holland stepped up to the man, with whom she'd dealt before, and said, "I give you respect. You owe me some."

    The man allowed himself to be cuffed and, later, strapped into four-point restraints in the back of an ambulance. Incident resolved--without a scratch or electrical charge.

    IMO, anyone advocating or claiming... (none / 0) (#61)
    by Bill Arnett on Fri Nov 17, 2006 at 04:54:19 PM EST
    ...that "the only good cop is a dead cop" is a troll of the very worst kind and does not deserve space to spew hatred or stupidity such as this

    Yes Patrick that was over the line (none / 0) (#62)
    by Che's Lounge on Fri Nov 17, 2006 at 07:32:04 PM EST
    But so was what those cops did to that student, who was apparently in the process of leaving when they arrived. He could have died for not having the proper papers.

    As to his reluctance, those CSO's shoud know better than to hassle students working at 3 am. It's probably some serious work and they are not keen on being disturbed. Sounds more like profiling.

    Enough is enough (none / 0) (#63)
    by Domino on Fri Nov 17, 2006 at 07:36:13 PM EST
    Why do some of you find is necessary to reply to police brutality with praise to the police?  Yes, there are some good cops, but the system is diseased in America with racism and general hatred of those they are supposed to protect.  

    Let me get this straight (none / 0) (#65)
    by Kitt on Fri Nov 17, 2006 at 07:51:40 PM EST
    We've gone from a discussion about the unnecessary tasering of a student at a university to feel good stories about cops to do what? - make Patrick feel better?

    Article on Taser (none / 0) (#67)
    by Kitt on Sat Nov 18, 2006 at 02:31:52 PM EST
    Here's an interesting article on Taser, its invention, and its story.

    Not having been there (none / 0) (#68)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Nov 18, 2006 at 03:50:55 PM EST
    and not knowing what all went on before the video started, it's tough to make a call on this one.

    Though it sounds to me like the kid was being an A-1 horse's a$$ and after all the attmpts to talk some sense into him failed the CSO's called the cops.

    I wonder how much time elapsed between when he refused to show his ID to the CSO's and when the cops showed up.

    Interesting though that tasers are described as "deadly force" by some here, yet the kid got hit, what, 4-5 times?, in about 5 minutes and yet he certainly lived to tell, er, yell and scream, about it.

    The only injuries I've heard reported were some bruises on his side, which I'm guessing were caused by his body contacting the floor and certainly not by the tasers themselves.

    Some people look for offense like there's a reward for it. And in this case, assuming his lawsuit is succesful, he would be right.